The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Supernatural Grandparenting

Episode Date: March 10, 2017

Did you know that the Bible spells out a game-plan for grandparents? Grandparents aren't just supposed to spoil their grandchildren with candy, love, and outings- they are called to help bring their grandchildren to heaven. Jeff gives you tips to help you rise to the occasion!

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show, Episode 6, Supernatural Grandparenting. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show. And it's good to be with you once again.

Today we have a great show for you, another show, something that really is at the center of my life right now. And if it's not at the center of your life, it probably will someday be at the center of your life. And that's being a grandparent. And who would have guessed that I would have been a grandparent at such a young age? But at 59 years old, I am. I'm the grandfather of two little boys, Francis and Dominic, Francesco and Dominic. and they are the center of our life, Emily, and I just enjoy them so much. And I was reflecting on this the other day and thinking to myself, you know, there's an art to being a grandparent.

You know, right away, you have so much respect from these little boys, but you've got to step up to the plate as grandparents and deliver more than candy and going out to movies and that type of thing. But we're going to talk about that today. But before we get into our topic today, I want to talk to you a little bit about the show in general. And that is, we so appreciate the feedback that we're getting from you. It's incredible. It's phenomenal. And it's very, very helpful. And we're working hard not only to put out these shows, but also to give you the information behind the show.

In other words, the other day, we were talking about spiritual optometry and how your vision with your eyes corresponds with your heart. And we've got great feedback on that. Well, we've got show notes for most of our shows. I think all of our shows where I provide pictures for you that I'm talking about. And if I quote the Bible, we've got all of those quotes, because I know right now you're probably driving down the road. And the last thing we want is for you to start taking notes and get into an accident and have your attorney call us. But we really encourage you to just listen if you're driving. And when you get home, you can go to our website.

We've got all the notes waiting for you. And you can do that. I'll tell you how you can stay in touch. You can simply go to ascensionpresents.com forward slash podcasts. And you'll see right away the three most recent podcasts, the shows. And then if you click on the name of the show, the Jeff Kaven show, you'll get a list of all of the shows with a picture. And if you click on the picture of that show, we've got all the show notes and the pictures that we talked about during the show. I think you're going to be impressed.

We've got a great team that is putting this together. and we're just really impressed with what they're doing. Now, in the show notes, there will be a form where you can submit questions and questions for me, but I know also that some of you have topic suggestions. You want me to talk about certain things. I'd like to know that. So in the show notes, there is a form that you can fill out, and it'll come right to me, and we'll put that on the list and seriously consider it.

You can also email me personally at the Jeff Kaven Show at ascensionpress.com. That's the Jeffcaven show at ascensionpress.com. And by the way, listen and rate the show on iTunes. Why do we ask you to do that? Well, it helps me reach more people with the message of the gospel, and we appreciate you doing that. Hey, I got a little announcement for you. This last week, we spent a good amount of time videotaping a brand new great adventure

study that I think you're going to be interested in. You know, we always listen to you, and we know what you want to study, and people have been saying for quite some time, we'd like to know more about wisdom. And that's what we did. We just put together an amazing, an amazing eight-part Bible study on wisdom using the wisdom literature in the Bible. And we're talking about topics like a basic introduction. And then we go into wisdom for decision-making, wisdom for finances, wisdom for relationships, wisdom for peace of mind, you know, wisdom for family, all of this. And it's really exciting, wisdom for the elderly and then wisdom in Christ. And you can expect that study to be coming out before the

summer, and you can stay in tune with ascensionpress.com, and I'll give you some notifications in the upcoming shows as to how we're doing on that. But thank you for your prayers. I know on Facebook I ask for prayers and you came through in flying colors. So I, I really, really appreciate that. Well, to our topic at hand today, we're talking about being grandparents. What I'd like to do with you today is talk a little bit about the Bible in grandparenting, but also my own experience and some practical suggestions. If you're a grandparent, don't you just love those kids?

I mean, I know you have the most beautiful grandchildren in the world. Not true. I do. And everybody knows it. And that's one thing you'll hear from all the grandparents is how special their grandchildren are. Now, this is one of those things that I truly believe that being a grandparent is a supernatural thing. In fact, I like to talk about supernatural grandparenting. It's very different than being a parent, as you know. And if you are, you're going to be a grandparent to the next

number of years, or even if you're still young and starting off your family, you can learn from this and kind of pocket the wisdom and prepare for the future. But I want to start off. by talking a little bit about the, you know, the biblical perspective. You know, when you look at the Bible and grandparenting, you'll find out that there really is mandates on grandparents, that they have a mandate to teach their grandchildren and to pass the story onto their grandchildren. If you look at Israel in bondage in Egypt, they spent 40 years after they came out of 400 years of bondage, 40 years in the wilderness, and they traveled for 40 years, and suddenly now they're on edge of going across the Jordan River and taking the land of Canaan where the Canaanites live.

And the Canaanites are made up of a lot of differentites, but they worship a number of gods, and one of them is Mullic. Now, Mollock is just pure evil, to be honest with you. They take live children and they sacrifice them on altars. It is satanic. And they also have a lot of other gods that they're interested in, and Israel is not interested, and Israel's not interested in their children getting involved in those foreign gods. So we have a mandate on the grandparents at this point before they go across to teach their grandchildren. I don't know if you've ever seen this before, but before Moses dies on Mount Nebo, he gives his last speech in Deuteronomy, and he says in Deuteronomy 4.9, he says, only take heed and keep your soul diligently, lest you forget the things which your

eyes have seen unless they depart from your heart all the days of your life. Make them known to your children and your children's children. So I'm not sure you've ever seen that before. And I know that it never really impacted me until I became a grandparent. And by the way, my little boys, my grandboys are two and six. But it really hit me that it wasn't just teacher children, but it was teacher children and your children's children. And so as they get ready to cross, Moses, gives them further instruction in Deuteronomy 649, and he says, Here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one God, is one Lord, and you shall love the Lord your God with all of your heart and with all of your soul and with all of your might.

And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart, and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise, and you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be frontals between your eyes, and you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. And so Moses gives instruction to parents that if they're going to be successful in this foreign land where they have hideous gods, and they want your sons and daughters, then you are going to have to do something, mom, dad. You're going to have to do something, grandma, grandpa. Just because you're a grandma

and a grandpa going across the Jordan River doesn't mean you're going over there to play golf the rest of your life. You're going over there to teach. You're going over there to instruct your grandchildren. In fact, Psalm 71 in verse 18 says, so even to old age.

Even to old age and gray hairs, O God, do not forsake me till I proclaim thy might to all the generations to come. Isn't that beautiful? Here's an older person in Psalms saying, don't forsake me till don't forsake me till i proclaim thy might to all the generations to come now when you start

looking at the new testament you see that grandparents played a major role and paul knew it and the the particular grandparent that i'm thinking of here is the grandparent of the famous pastor of ephesus his name was timothy and timothy was probably one of the youngest leaders in the early church in fact, it sounds like he was being chided for it and maybe even doubted because he was young and Paul encouraged him. Don't, don't, you know, let people look down on your youthfulness. Well, Ephesus was a tough place, to be honest with you. It reminds me a lot of America today, and I know that in talking to many of you, you know, I go out to conferences and email and Facebook and all of that. I know that one of the great struggles you have is how to keep your kids pure

and how to keep your kids unstained from the world. That goes for our grandkids, too, doesn't it? Well, Ephesus was a home of Artemis, Artemis worship, and magic, by the way. It was a real headquarters for magic. And so Paul put Timothy in charge of that place because the task was difficult, and he knew that Timothy could handle it. But listen to what he says about Timothy and his pedigree and how he became such a warrior and so good at being a leader in such a complicated and threatening place.

In 2 Timothy, chapter 1, verses 4 through 5, Paul writes to this young Timothy in the midst of this difficult situation, and he says, as I remember your tears, I long night and day to see you, that I may be filled with joy. I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother, Lois. and your mother, Eunice, and now, I am sure, dwells in you. You see, he followed the teachings of his grandmother. He walked down that road that she walked down. He walked the way she taught.

We could call it the Lois Lane, if you will, for Timothy. In 2nd Timothy 3, 15, and 16, he says, and how from childhood you have known the sacred writings that came from his grandmother. that are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. And I think that's actually why, you know, Timothy really had a heart for his grandmother, and Paul knew that.

And Paul instructs Timothy in chapter 5 of 1st Timothy, 5 in verse 4, if a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some return to their parents, for this is acceptable in the sight of God. Let me read that again. If a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some return to their parents, for this is acceptable in the sight of God. Grandparents, you know, you have an incredible legacy. If you're Catholic, you're faithful to Christ, you've been studying the faith and you're faithful.

You've got an amazing legacy, and you need to tell that to the next generation. You need to share that tremendous legacy. The writer of Proverbs, chapter 13, verse 22, and by the way, just a reminder, you can go to our show notes. I've got all these scriptures waiting for you there. Proverbs 1322, A good man leaves an inheritance to his children's children, but the sinner's wealth is laid up for the righteous. So you've got an incredible inheritance, and you need to leave this to your children and children's children's children. Proverbs 17, 6, grandchildren are the crown of the aged, and the glory of sons is their father. It's beautiful. Psalm 78 talks about

the faith on to the next generation through the telling of their journey. And grandma, grandpa, one of the best ways for you to pass the faith on is literally by telling stories. Kids love stories. You know, kids can be running around, making noise, not paying attention, all of that. And in the middle of it, all you've got to say is, listen, I got a story to tell you. And everybody pays attention. at that point. Everybody pays attention at that point. Listen to Psalm 78 in terms of sharing and telling the journey of faith to your grandchildren. The psalmist says in verse one, this is one through eight, give ear, oh my people to my teaching, incline your ears to the words of my mouth. I will open my mouth

in a parable. I will utter dark sayings from of old, things that we have heard and known that our ancestors have told us, we will not hide them from their children. We will tell to the coming generation the glorious deeds of the Lord and his might and the wonders that he has done. He established a decree in Jacob and appointed a law in Israel which he commanded our ancestors to teach their children, that the next generation might know them, the children yet unborn, and rise up and to tell them to their children so that they should set their hope in God and not forget the works of God, but keep His commandments, and that they should not be like their ancestors a stubborn and rebellious generation, a generation whose heart was not steadfast, whose spirit was not faithful.

It's pretty powerful, isn't it? Very, very powerful. You know, when I think about influencing my grandboys, my grandsons, and we're probably going to have more on the way, When I think about influencing them, there's a paragraph in the catechism that kind of gives me an outline. I mean, it's a brief outline. It's only two things, but it's an outline nevertheless, and it's in paragraph 236 of the catechism. And in paragraph 236, it says that there's really two things that we need to focus on here that I would submit to you are great points to focus on when it comes to influencing your grandchildren. And a little bit later on in the show, I'm going to talk to you, give you some practical advice on how to do that. But there's two words.

One is theology, the other is economy. Now, they sound like big words, but we can break it down. Theology in paragraph 236 talks about knowing the mystery of the Trinity, or we could say, knowing the heart of our heavenly father. It's important that you know the heart of our heavenly father. The second word is economy. It comes from a big fancy word that probably doesn't even believe. along on podcast, but it's oikonomia. And oikonamia means the economy. And when back in Jesus day, it meant a father's household plan, the father's plan. So there's two things that I think

your grandchildren are going to need in the future. One is they're going to need to know the heart of their heavenly father. And they're going to need to know his plan. Now, nobody else in the world is set on teaching your grandchildren. You are the one who has the heart. You are the one who has the heart for it. You're the one that has access to him. You're the one that has the knowledge. You're the one that can pass on to them the knowledge of their father's heart and his plan. Now, why are those two things so important? Well, I would submit to you that those two things are so important because they are the necessary things that you need to entrust yourself to the Lord. And isn't that what you really want your grandchildren to do is to trust the Lord and to live a life of faith?

You don't want them just to believe in Catholicism. We've got a whole culture full of people who just believe in Catholicism. But is it making a difference in their life to say, I'm Catholic? Or does it really make a difference to pray that your kids would just stay in the church? Look around you. Is that what you want them to become just stayers in the church? No, you want them to become faithful. And if they're going to become faithful, they've got to know,

heart of their father. They've got to know his plan for their life. So mark that down. I've got it in the show notes waiting for you when you get home after picking up those groceries. It's 236 of the Catechism, 236. You know, I was thinking about this before we came on the show and I was thinking, what are the things that we really need to pass on to our grandchildren? I think there's four, really. I mean, if you want to narrow it down to four, I would say, number one, they really need to know the story. Your grandchildren need to know the story. And, oh, let me, do a little advertisement here, if I might. My wife, along with three other ladies, have put together the most amazing book that Ascension Press has put out, and it is the great adventure. It's the

storybook for children. It's a storybook. It's brand new. You've got to check it out. We'll put a show link. Okay? We'll put a link to the book in the show notes. It gives you an opportunity, Grandma, Grandpa, to read the Bible to your grandchildren, even if you do it over Skype or a Google hang out, you know, across the country. And it allows you to read the Bible with them. And this great storybook, you read a real Bible, by the way. The storybook complements it. And the storybook shows you where everything that's Catholic, the mysteries of the rosary, the mass, the creed, the sacraments, where does it all come from in the story? That's what the story book is about. I'm glad I thought about that, because I think that's going to be a real help for you. Know the story.

Know the story. Start sharing the story with your grandchildren. Number two, know the sacraments. Know the sacraments. That's how you enter into this amazing story. And number three, to teach our grandchildren to live the life of Christ in the story. They need to know how to live the life of Christ. And number four, they need to learn how to pray. Now, if you are astute, if you are really paying attention right now, you'll know I just gave you the four pillars of the Catechism. That's right. Know the story, know the sacraments, live the life of Christ and pray. If you do that with your grandchildren, I'll tell you what, you're giving them a huge, huge advantage. Hey, we're going to take a break, and when we come back, I want to talk to you about how Grandma Rosa

had a major, major impact on Pope Francis. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. We'll be back in just a moment. It's hard to live out your Catholic faith on your own. In fact, the Bible reveals that we need a community of people to help us on our journey of faith. If you're interested in finding that community by joining or starting a small group study, visit ascensionpress.com and sign up for a free Ascension account. With your account, you'll get all the tools you need to start walking with others towards Christ. Welcome back to the Jeff Kaven show. I'm Jeff. I'm Jeff. Glad you're joining us today. We are talking about grants. parenting today, but I want to remind you, go to our show notes at ascensionpresents.com

forward slash podcasts, everything I'm talking about, all the scriptures, even some pictures are going to be included in the show notes. And if we're talking about going to a website or something like that, all the links are going to be there for you. We've got a great team putting it all together for you. We don't want you to do it while you're driving. Wait till you get home. I left off talking about grandparenting, and I was going to share with you.

about the great influence on Pope Francis' life, no doubt. I mean, there's little doubt. Anybody that knows Pope Francis, they would say the biggest influence on his life, his spiritual life, certainly his call to the priesthood, was Grandma Rosa. Grandma Rosa. Grandma Rosa was a very, very big influence in his life. And one of the things that she did is she taught him to pray. And she taught him to pray in such a beautiful way.

share it with you, and she taught him to pray with his hands. And she gave a meaning to every finger on his hand and taught him to pray, and she modeled it with him, and it stuck. And that little mnemonic device on learning how to pray with his hands, which I'll share with you, he's now the Pope, and he's remembering it. And he's giving credit to Grandma Rosa. A prayer, can use with your grandchildren. Here's how it goes. If you take your thumb, if you put your hand out in front of you, you know, when you were a kid and you had to put your hand on a piece of paper and draw around the fingers and make a turkey at Thanksgiving, if you put your hand down there and look at your thumb, she said to her little Jorge, she said, thumb, it's the finger

closest to you. Pray for family and those closest to you, Jorge. Then the index finger, the next one over. I'm holding up my right hand right. now. The next finger over from the thumb is the index finger. She said, these are people who point out the way. Pray for those who teach, educate, and who take care of you. This includes teachers, doctors, priests, could be politicians. And then the longest finger in the very middle, very long finger, she said, remember those who govern us. Pray for presidents, politicians. I guess that's where she would put politicians. These are the people that are standing. the tallest in our community, we've got to pray for them.

And then the fourth finger, next to the pinky, she said, it's the weakest of fingers, as any piano teacher can attest. Pray for those who are the weakest among us, the challenge, the sick, the homeless, the unborn. Pray for them, the weakest. And then the little finger, the little finger is the smallest of all. Pray for little children. I think you could put the unborn in there.

and Jorge, pray for yourself. Isn't that a beautiful model? You can use that, by the way. There's no royalties involved here. You can use that with your grandchildren today, this weekend, this weekend. Go to our show notes. We got the information there. Those are the words of Grandma Rosa.

The most valuable inheritance that young Jorge received came from his grandmother Rosa, who raised him from the 13th month on. It was at the feet of his grandmother that he entered his most formative and important school of formation in his entire life, and the Pope received the first proclamation of the Christian message from Rosa through her actions, her words, and her devotions. And when Jorge decided to become a priest, his grandmother, by the way, there was other family members who were pushing back on this

and didn't want him to become a priest, but his grandmother pretended to be surprised, but she had already understood it all in her heart, her reassuring words, which the Pope keeps to this day in his Liturgy of the Hours, he kept close to him during the years in the seminary. And this is part of that letter. I want to read it to you.

He keeps it in his liturgy of the hours. This is the quote, that my grandchildren, this is what his grandmother wrote, that my grandchildren, to whom I have given the best of my soul, may have a long and happy life, but if some day sadness, sickness, or the loss of a loved one should fill them with sorrow, that they should always remember that a sigh before the tabernacle

where the greatest and most glorious martyr is kept. And a gaze upon Mary at the foot of the cross can cause a drop of balsam to fall upon the deepest and most painful of wounds. If God is calling you, then may he bless you. But don't forget that the door of this house, Jorge, is always open and no one will ever criticize you if you decide to turn back. He keeps that, and that's what he's released. He has more that he keeps in his liturgy the hours, but he has kept that. Hey, as we get ready to conclude, let me give you a word of encouragement about grandparents. I want to talk about grandparenting just for a moment. You know what? As a grandparent, you actually have a number of assets. really do. Number one, you are an automatic hero to your grandchildren. You didn't even do

anything. You didn't write anything. You didn't give them anything. You are just automatically a hero. I think this borders on supernatural. Because every time the grandchildren come over is, Papa, I didn't do anything. I'm just Papa. I'm just Papa. And so I can remember, you know, wanting to go to my grandparents' house all the time, and we would drive, and we would meet them, or grandma and grandpa would come over from Wisconsin to Minnesota, and we got so excited. And my grandpa didn't have a lot of money. He couldn't go out and take me places or anything like that, but just being with me. And I still remember to today, my grandpa made me a pair of stilts.

I was a little guy, and those feet of the stilts were only about six inches off the ground, but I felt 10 feet tall and every time he would come over we would bring the stilts out in the driveway and Grandpa would show us how to walk on stilts how to walk tall you're an automatic hero grandma you're an automatic hero grandpa

but you have a number of other things you've got time on your hands now like perhaps you never had before you've got time on your hands number two you probably have more money on your hands than you've had before discretionary money but you also have a lot of influence

but many grandparents also have one other thing. They may have guilt. They might have remorse. What am I talking about? I'm talking about maybe you came to the Lord late. Maybe you came to the Lord when you were 40, 50 years old, and if you could take everything back now, you know, you would. But you wish you had another opportunity to raise your kids.

Maybe when you came to the Lord or you got serious about walking with Christ, the kids were juniors in high school. They kind of missed all those years. Maybe you struggled with alcohol when you were younger. Maybe you were gone all the time on business trips, and you just weren't there. And maybe your kids left the church, and you feel terrible about it now, and you wish, boy, I wish I could take that back. I wish I had another chance. Let me encourage you.

You do. You've got another chance. You've got another chance because you've got grandchildren. Now you get a second chance to love your grandchildren. And get this, your adult children. will observe. They will watch. They will see a new side of you. They will see you pray when they never saw you praying when they were young. They will see you taking the grandkids to church when you didn't do that when you were younger. They'll see you reading the Bible. And that

maybe never happened between you and your parents. But you're seeing it now, you know. They're going to see that. They're going to see that. They're going to see you do those things. And they might even come up to you and say, dad, can I talk to you? Mom, can I talk to you? Sure. You know, I appreciate you doing that with all the kids, but you never did that when we were growing up. And that's the time to be honest and to say, you know what? You're right. And I regret that. I really do. And I just don't want to make that mistake. I want to love my grandchildren. But with loving your grandchildren, there's also some guidelines, you know, and one is that if you, you don't want to contradict your daughter's raising of her kids, your son's raising of her kids. You don't want to be the one that

steps in between. You want to support them in any way that you can in as much as you can. You want to support them. You might want to take some time with your grandchildren and tell them some stories about you and grandpa growing up or how you came to faith, how your faith was deepened. You might want to tell them about your prayer life. If they're named after a saint and maybe they have a confirmation name or a baptismal name, you might do a little research on it and tell them a little bit about that saint. You might start a novena for your grandchildren. You know, your children who are grown now and are at work

and maybe making the same mistakes that you made when you were younger, they don't have the time to do a novena for their kids. You do. You do. But you might say, Jeff, you know what? You don't get it. My kids are in Michigan. My grandkids are in Michigan, and I live in Idaho.

I live in California. The grandkids are over in New York, even a couple hours away, perhaps. That's okay. God's given us technology. There's nothing wrong with sitting on Skype and talking to your kids once in a while, your grandkids. Nothing wrong with going on a Google hangout and saying hi to the grandkids. And that storybook that I mentioned earlier that my wife Emily and three other ladies wrote, it's a great tool to use cross-country to read the Bible to your grandkids.

My dear friend, you get a second chance. By being faithful to your grandchildren, you get a second chance. a second chance. Let me end with this. My favorite possession in the world, do you know what it is? My favorite possession in the world is not a Kirby Pucket baseball shirt.

It's not my kid baseball card collection. It's not my Harley Davidson. None of that. My favorite possession is my grandpa's Bible. It's my grandpa's Bible. Because my grandpa's Bible sits in my office and it still has in the very same place. as he last read it, the last bulletin that he went to church with.

It has the prayer cards in there. It has the ribbons in the same place. The same verses are underlined. And as I look through that, I see my grandpa's heart. I see the lineage. I see the great, great treasure that he's passed on. And I'm very grateful that my grandpa left some tracks for me to follow. And my friend, you can do the same thing, too.

As we conclude the show today, I want to remind you that we can get in touch with each other. That's right. You can find all of the show notes and everything we've been talking about, the verses and so forth. And I'll tell you what. I'll do a little treat here. Sometimes it's fun. You know, you listen to a show like this and you say, boy, I wish I could see that. I'm going to post a picture of my grandpa's Bible for you.

It's my grandpa's Bible. It's most important possession I own, my grandpa's Bible. You can go to ascensionpresents.com forward slash podcast. You can look at the show notes, and in the show notes, as I said earlier, there's a form where you can submit questions to me and topic, suggestions. We'd love to hear from you. That's how we develop these shows. We get an idea of what you're interested in hearing and then try to do that.

You can email me personally at the Jeffcaven show at ascensionpress.com. that's the Jeffcaven show at ascensionpress.com. And you can go to iTunes and listen also and subscribe at iTunes. And by the way, rate the show. It helps us to reach more people with the message of the gospel. Let me close out by praying for you. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Lord, I lift up to you all of our wonderful listeners,

especially today, Lord grandparents. And I pray that you would help them to see their role in your light and the influence that they have on their grandchildren. children. Lord, I pray that you would give them a renewed heart. Maybe they have blown it in the past, but you give them a renewed heart, O God, to begin afresh, to be a supernatural grandparent and to give them the ideas on how to interact with their grandchildren. I pray for their grandchildren right now. I pray that they will remain holy and pure, and that they will see and recognize their vocation in life. We pray all of this in the name of Jesus, and we

we even ask for the prayers of Timothy's mother Lois pray for us in Jesus name amen name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit amen look forward to talking to you next time on the Jeff Kaven show