The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - Tarot Cards, Ouija Boards, and Astrology: Are They Dangerous?

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

So just how dangerous can tarot cards, ouija boards, and astrology really be? Today, Jeff discusses the Christian view of occult powers, and shares passages from the Bible and Catechism explaining their sinful nature. Snippet from the Show “Satan is a liar, and if we go to places outside the kingdom of God, putting our trust in these things, you will get answers, but they’re lies.” Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow for full shownotes!

You're listening to the Jeff Kaven's show, episode 232, tarot cards, Ouija boards, astrology. Are they dangerous? Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show.

Hey, thanks for joining me again. This week, you know, I remember the day so well back in fifth grade when I had a crush on a young girl by the name of Rebecca. And I wondered if she liked me. I remember asking my friends, do you think Rebecca likes me? And they said, well, I don't know, but my older brother has this new Ouija board. And we can ask the Ouija board if Rebecca likes you. And I got together with them and I started fooling around with a Ouija board back in fifth grade. to be honest with you, I can't remember if Rebecca did like me here. Not according to that

Ouija board, but in real life, no, not so much. But I want to talk to you about these things because while we have a tendency to treat them lightly and it's kind of entertainment for some people, it's innocent. Nothing's really going to happen. After all, I'm not really putting my trust in these things. Are they dangerous? Are they dangerous? I want to take just a few minutes today to talk to you about that, because maybe in your home right now, your kids are delving into this. Do you know that there's even a whole branch of evangelical Christians today that are creating tarot cards for Christians, actually cards that you can go and you can have your cards read, and they are related to Christianity? It's amazing what people are doing these days

to try to find out about their future, to look into the future, to find out what is the future hold for me. And in some cases, they're even turning to these things and asking, what does Jesus have for me? Well, I'm going to start off by just saying this to the question, are they dangerous? Yes, they are dangerous. But I would say to you that they are more than dangerous. It is outright sin. And I'm going to show you from the teachings of the church and what scripture says about turning to things like Ouija boards or tarot cards or astrology, you know, looking at your

horoscope, all of that. So, and we do have an answer to that curious heart of yours as to what God has for you in the future. And that is a relationship with him where the future is in his hands and divine providence is the way that we walk. And that is what God has called us too. But if we do not have that relationship with God, we will turn to alternative ways of trying to control our life or look into the future or even to manipulate other people. And that is sin. That is sin. Well, this whole thing with the Ouija board, you know, I did a little bit of research into it. And not a big fan of Ouija boards. Maybe you know, what they look like. It's a board that has the alphabet on it, and then it has what's called a planchette, which is a heart-shaped little piece of plastic with legs, and two people put their

hands and their fingers on it, and through kind of a muscular manipulation, they can spell out words to questions that they pose to the Ouija board. It really became popular, starting in China, and quite a while ago. But then as far as the Western influence, businessman Elijah Bond had the idea to patent a planchette sold with a board on which the alphabet was printed. And this Elijah Bond filed for patent protection in May of 1890, 1890. And then it actually went into production in 1901. So it's been around for quite some time.

and I think that it was particularly popular in the 60s and 70s, but you still see that around in various forms. Well, what does the Bible say about all of these ways of trying to secure a good future, at least to know what's going to happen in the future? One of the most tragic men in the Bible was King Saul. And King Saul was the first king of Israel, and then we have David and Solomon after him. And he was an old man, and he was turning away from God, and yet he needed advice. And he sought the advice from occult powers. And you can read about that in 1st Samuel 28. I'm not going to read it right now, but you can read that in 1st Samuel 28. And you went to the witch, a particular witch, and it was wrong. And there were problems as a result of it. The Bible. The

Bible is really, really straightforward about this kind of activity. When it says in Leviticus 1931, and I'll put this in the show notes for you, just, if you don't get the show notes, just text my name as one word, Jeff Kavens, and text it to 33777. That's 3377. Leviticus 19 says, do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists. For you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord, your God. Now that is really straightforward, isn't it? And we're talking about at a time in Israel's history where they came out of Egyptian slavery

and through the leadership of Moses, they were led out of bondage into the wilderness, took three months to get to Mount Sinai. And there at Mount Sinai, they were there for a year for formation. And during that year they were, God was dealing with their hearts and trying to get them to move away from the addictions of Egypt, the false gods of Egypt, the way that they lived in Egypt, and to get them to trust in him and to realize that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. And so it's at that time when they are trying to become free and they are introduced. to Yahweh, to God, that God has to say to them, look, do not turn to mediums. Don't do it. And don't seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. Now, I've got to tell you, I'm not naming names or anything, but I know quite a few good

Christians who consider this type of thing of turning to mediums or having your palm red or tarot cards read or whatever it might be, literally is entertainment. But what seems like entertainment and seems like it's powerless and it's innocent can really turn out to be something very, very dangerous and it can really affect your life. And as I said earlier, it is sin. And I'll even talk to you a little bit here, a little bit later about what kind of sin that is. Deuteronomy talks about this as well. When it says in Deuteronomy 18, let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter. the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or cast spells,

or who is a medium or spiritist, or who consults the dead. That's what Saul did. King Saul did that. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. Now, my friend, we have to come to the conclusion that, you know, who are we going to serve? God, or are we going to look to sources outside of God for direction and solace in our life. And when we realize that these types of activities are not only wrong, but it's sin, and it is actually detestable to the Lord, there is no way that we can be a part of these things at all. It's not a part of our life. Even if we think it's a fun game where we're getting together with people at their house and they're saying, hey, let's play this innocent game here. We'll just have some fun. Don't even open yourself up to

that. Isaiah 8 says, when men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? Very good question that Isaiah brings up there. And he's saying that when men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, he's saying, why aren't you consulting with God? Why don't you go to God's word. Why don't you listen to the teachings that he has imparted? As Catholics today, why don't you look to the sacred tradition and the sacred scriptures for the guidance that God wants to give you in your life? And that's what we are called, that's what we are called to do. So that is, I'm going to put that in the show notes for you, Isaiah 8 and verse 19. So the scripture is clear. It's very,

very clear. And many exorcists in the Catholic Church today, and I know of several, I'm friends with several exorcists in the Catholic Church today, they speak extremely, very strongly against the Ouija board. They speak strongly against tarot cards or crystals or your horoscope. Whether we intend it for fun or not is completely irrelevant. It is a, is one person. and said, a loaded spiritual gun, and we should destroy any of these things that have found their way into our homes. Playing with the Ouija board is literally engaging in occultism and definitely not an option for Christians. And this is a principle that is really important to adopt inner life. And that is that seeking wisdom apart from God, especially when it

what involves calling upon familiar spirits, family spirits, or the spirits of those who have departed, which people do in seances, for example. That is forbidden in the Bible, no matter what the circumstances, no matter how innocent people may feel about it, it is opening yourself up to demons, to invade our hearts in our minds, to influence us. And I know the moment I say that, I know that there's going to be people that will say, oh, that sounds so conservative and so, you know, suspicious about opening yourself up to demons. Jeff, do you really believe that the demons exist? Yes, I do. As much as I believe that angels exist, for demons are fallen angels. You see, you've got to remember something that is that the scripture tells us in John chapter 8 in verse 44. and that is that Satan is a liar. He's a liar. And if we go to sources that are outside of God in the kingdom of God and we put our trust in these things, you will get answers, but it's a lie. And it's a lie. And what is the end of sin? What is the end of lies? Death. And so when we open ourselves up to these types of things,

He masquerades as an angel of light. And 2 Corinthians chapter 11 and verse 14 tells us this, that he masquerades as a angel of light. And the enemy of our souls has fooled so many people into thinking that they can communicate with friends or distant relatives and that it's not going to have an impact on them. Now, this word from God in scripture forbidding us to do these types of things is one of the most repeated, repeated topics in the Bible, that we are not to, we're not to do this at all. Scripture says in 1 Peter chapter 5 in verse 8, I'll put this in the notes for you too,

that your enemy, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. That's what he does. He's out to devour us. The scriptural example for dealing with items that pertain to the occult, like any books, music, jewelry, which, by the way, is becoming very popular among young people today, jewelry that is related to the occult or occult games, like Ouija boards and other occult objects, is to confess involvement with them as sin, that's what we're called to do, and burn the items. You say, oh, man, Jeff, that sounds extreme. Look at Acts chapter 19 versus 18 through 19.

That's Acts 19, 18 through 19. and it talks about the burning of these types of objects. We renounce them and we get them out of our midst. Now, when I come back from the break here, I want to share with you a few things from the catechism that really get to the heart of this. I mean, why is this wrong? What is actually happening here?

And I think you're going to be interested in this. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven show. Are you ready to know St. Joseph in a personal way? Father Mark Tubes, adjunct faculty member for the Institute for Priestly Formation, and presenter of Rejoice and Oramus, brings you in St. Joseph's footsteps, 30 days of meditations. It may be daunting or challenging to get to know St. Joseph, but through in St. Joseph's footsteps, you will not only get to know St. Joseph,

with the Holy Family as well. Walk with St. Joseph through 30 days of meditations using St. Ignatius of Loyola's imaginative prayer. From the betrothal of St. Joseph to Mary to the presentation, and more, you will walk through major moments in St. Joseph's life. To learn more about in St. Joseph's footsteps, 30 days of meditations, go to ascensionpress.com forward slash Joseph. Welcome back talking today about a very serious topic, and that is turning to the occult,

turning to horoscopes and crystals and Ouija boards, tarot, all of this, looking to these sources for our future, what the future holds for us or relationships and so forth. Now, I want to share with you from the Catechism, which starts in paragraph 2115, and this gives you some real insight as to what the church teaches, what the Lord teaches us, about these sources. It says in paragraph 2115, and I'll just read this to you, God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of providence. For whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it in providence however can constitute a lack of responsibility

all forms of divination are to be rejected recourse to satan or demons conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to unveil the future consulting horoscopes astrology palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance and recourse to mediums, all conceal, this is where it gets interesting here, it's the catechism says, all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone. You see what that's saying right there?

I mean, I couldn't have ever written anything as good as that. I mean, that is saying it so concisely, and that is that we are to reject all of these things. Why? Because they contradict the honor, respect, and the loving fear that we owe to only one, and that is God. That is God. We are to honor God and respect God. We are to live in a loving fear and awe of God. And when you will go to these mediums and these crystals and horoscopes and try to secure

your future or know the future, you are actually dishonoring God and it is disrespectful to God. Why? Because he is the one who created you and he knows his place. plan for you as it says in the first paragraph of the catechism that god has a plan of sheer goodness for you and he is the one who holds the future in his hands and so to go outside of that the loving hands of god and to try to establish your future outside of god that is dishonoring and disrespectful to god now i do know people will think and they may even say to me well you know I didn't do that thinking I was dishonoring God or, you know, I wasn't consciously disrespecting

God. You don't have to be consciously disrespecting God or dishonoring God to do that. But that's what happens. That's what happens. And so many times, you know, in the scriptures, it says that God is a jealous God, not in the sense of our jealousy, but in the sense of wanting your heart. as St. Augustine said that God thirsts, that you would thirst for him. And when God is thirsty for you and he wants to bring you to himself and love you in a bridal-spousal relationship, as a bridegroom and a bride, when he wants that and desires that for you in your relationship with him, and suddenly you go out to these Ouija boards and horoscopes and crystals and tarot cards and so forth, you know what it is? It's cheating on God. Just like Josea said to Israel in the Old

Testament that God loved you, and you were a bride, and you cheated on him, and you went into exile, but he wouldn't forget you, he'd come and he'd look for you, because he loved you so much. The catechism goes on and says in paragraph 2117, all practices of magic or sorcery by which one attempts to tame occult powers so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others, even if this were for the sake of restoring their health, are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. And then it goes on, listen to this. This is very important. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism

often implies divination or magical practices. The church, for her part, warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity. You know, what is interesting, this hit me a few years ago when I was in New Orleans. And I went to New Orleans and I went to the cathedral there. And of course, in the historic part of New Orleans, I guess all of New Orleans is historic, right outside of the cathedral, there were literally tables out there where you could have your poem read and your future told right there. And I thought, what a juxtaposition.

And I'd be curious if that's happening in your town, too, are there occult activities around the cathedral? Let me know. Send me a note. I'd like to know about that. But this is what I found down in New Orleans. But what an interesting juxtaposition there at the center of the city, the cathedral, where the presence of God is and the bishop has the seat.

Right outside the doors, you have Satan crouching at the door saying, no, come to me. Come to me. I'll tell you the future. I'll tell you how to be successful. I'll tell you what to avoid. Kind of sounds like the enemy is saying, I'll be God for you. I will be God in your life. There will be an advantage coming to me. Oh, I got to tell you this. When I was a pastor, years ago, when I was a pastor, I had a guy come to me and he said, I need help. He said, my wife has a relationship with demons. I kind of chuckled at us. I said, what?

He said, I'm not kidding you. She has a relationship with demons. And I said, well, what do the demons do? And he said, they help her save money when she shops. I said, are you kidding with me? Come on. He said, no, I'm serious. And I found it to be true.

I ended up meeting his wife, and we had a meeting. and sure enough, she believed with all of her heart that the demons would help her save money at the grocery store and that they would give her sort of an inner vibration when she was faced with buying two different items. She would ask the demon, should I buy this one, A, or buy this one B. And a certain inner movement called a vibration told her which one she should buy and ultimately she would save money. I'm not kidding in this. This is the kind of stuff that people end up turning to. And the occult in the things that I'm talking about in this podcast are no different than

that lady who is turning to the enemy to save money. She wants to save money to do things in the future. So recourse to the so-called traditional cures does not justify the relationship with these evil powers. Now, it goes on and says in the catechism, but God's first commandment, and you know what that is, that we're not to have any other God besides the one true God. All of this activity is a sin against the first commandment, where God condemns the sins of what the catechism calls irreligion, tempting God in words or deeds and sacrilege.

Tempting God consists in putting His goodness and almighty power to the test by word or deed. Thus, Satan tried to induce Jesus to throw himself down from the temple and, by this gesture, force God to act. Jesus opposed Satan with the word of God. You shall not put the Lord your God to the test. The challenge contained in such tempting of God wounds, get this, wounds the respect and trust that we owe our Creator and Lord. it always harbors doubt about his love, his providence, and his power. Can I repeat that for you because this is so critically important? What does the occult do?

What does it do? It harbors something in your heart. When you look to the astrology cards, when you look to the crystals, when you look to the Ouija board, when you have your tarot card or your fortune told, what's happening, you are harboring doubt. about God's love and God's providence and God's power those three things you are harboring doubt

I say oh no I'm not oh yes you are you are you are you're harboring doubt that he loves you so you've got to go to the tarot card you're harboring doubt about his divine providence in your life so you go to the Ouija board you are harboring doubt about his power in your circumstances when you go to your horoscope.

You see, this is very serious stuff. This is a sin against the First Commandment, and it is a sin against justice the church teaches. What's justice? Justice is when God receives what he deserves. And he created you, and he created the world, and he deserves your heart, your attention, and your trust in his love, providence, and power.

But when you go to these things, you harbor doubt. And that's a sin against justice and a sin against the First Commandment. Paragraph 2120 goes on to say that sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions as well as persons, things, or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin, especially when committed against the Eucharist. for in this sacrament, the true body of Christ is made substantially present for us. So it is a sin. Disguising a fundamentally evil spiritual practice as a game for kids is in my estimation the very definition of evil.

So what do you do if you have these things? What do you do? Number one, renounce it. Renounce it. Go to confession and renounce it. sin that you have you have harbored doubt you have harbored doubt about his his love his providence and his power and i'm going to put that in the show notes for you you go to confession and go to confession quickly today if you can go to confession this is so serious go to confession and be very honest

as to what you have been involved in the sin of divination and number two make sure you get bit of it, burn it, cut it up, destroy it. I would do whatever I need to do to that thing so that nobody else can use it. Acts 19, 18, and 19. I mentioned it earlier. I mentioned earlier that in the early church they brought their books together and they burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to 50,000 pieces of silver. might be a good thing to do, huh? Not only go to confession, but burn it, destroy it, add up the value, give it to God. And then number three, talk to your children about these things and how dangerous they are, and talk to them in light of the three things I mentioned to you about his love,

harboring doubt about his love, his providence, and his power. Talk to your kids about that. And number four, seek God and trust divine providence in your life. I know this is, I'll put that in the show notes. I'll put all four of those for you in the show notes if you're driving right now. But please know that this is rampant in our culture today, especially in the days we're living in right now where people are so doubtful about their future. Don't fall into that. It isn't innocent.

It is dangerous. But you can be free from it. You can be free from it. And don't just be free from it, but give yourself to God and put confidence in his love. his providence and his power let me pray with you in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit lord i thank you for my friend today and i i pray oh god that they would act on this teaching that the church gives us and that they would give their heart completely to you thank you for freedom thank you for the sacrament of reconciliation and thank you that you have created us in

such a way that we can talk to you but we can also hear you in your word the sacred scriptures. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. I love you. Look forward to talking to you next week.