The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - The Papacy in the Bible: Jesus Is the Master Builder

Episode Date: May 2, 2025

Is the Papacy in the Bible? Jeff delves into Matthew 16 and Isaiah 22 to explain the foundations of the Papacy and the authority granted to Peter. He explores the importance of organized leadership and the historical context of the 'rock' metaphor in the Old and New Testaments. Jeff also highlights the significance of the keys of the kingdom, the power to bind and loose, and how these relate to the role of the Pope. Snippet from the Show The authority to bind and loose, as conferred upon Peter, ensures that the Church remains a steady beacon of faith. Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit https://media.ascensionpress.com/?s=&page=2&category%5B0%5D=Ascension%20Podcasts&category%5B1%5D=The%20Jeff%20Cavins%20Show for full shownotes!

Welcome to the Jeff Kaven Show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together and living as activated disciples. This is show 428, the papacy in the Bible, Jesus is the master builder. Hello, my friend, and welcome. Welcome to the Jeff Kaven show. You are most welcome. And if this is your first time joining the show, I want to welcome you. And we're living in interesting times right now, aren't we? Maybe you tuned in because of all that's happening in the church right now. We're in the midst of receiving a new papa, a new father in the church, a new pope that's going to lead the church,

take us forward into the next chapter of our life. So there's a lot of people who wonder about this position of the pope. Is it in the Bible or is it something that was made up? Is it a political figure that just helps run an organization, or is this part of the master builder's plan? In other words, is this part of Jesus' plan? And, of course, that is the answer. And I wanted to take some time this week to talk about the papacy in the Bible. And the reason that I'm doing it is because I think it will give you more to think about, more to pray about, more importantly, as the church is going through this procedure right now.

Pope Francis has passed away. Last week, I talked a little bit about the Pope Francis's place in history of the church. You might want to check that out. That's show 427. And now I want to talk about the position itself, and I think it might help you. And certainly, if you have family and they know you're Catholic and they know what is happening right now, they may have questions. In fact, maybe you have had discussions before. Hopefully it didn't end in an argument, you know, or really.

relationships being damaged in some way. I think that when you know something from the Bible about the papacy and you understand really what the church teaches about the papacy, it makes for a better discussion with your relatives and friends and colleagues at work, because no doubt the subject is being brought up. All right, so I am going to share a lot of notes with you here, and I know that you can't write them all down. So let me make it easy. Let me give you the notes for today. If you're already signed up for the notes from the show, don't worry about it, we'll get them to you. If you're new and you would like these notes, all you have to do is text my name, Jeff Kavens, just one word, Jeff Kavens, and you can text it to the number 33777. Biblical as I get,

huh? 33777, we'll get those to you. There's two principal texts, Matthew 16, that I'm going to draw from, and Isaiah 22, I'm going to draw from both of those, and I will put those in the notes for you, because those are really foundational in understanding the papacy in the Old Testament. Now, I'm one of those guys that went through Bible College years ago back in the 1970s and 80s. And I can tell you that it was a Protestant school that I went to. It was prior to me leaving the Catholic Church and then becoming a Protestant minister and then studying my way back into the Catholic Church. but I can tell you that we never studied anything about the papacy, and we never looked at the

foundational texts and really asked ourselves, what did the church historically teach about Matthew 16 and Isaiah 22? And so if you're not looking for it, you're not going to find it. But if you really inquire in the scriptures and you ask about the topic of the papacy, trust me, you're going to find it because all the early church fathers did. And they understood the primacy of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. And so we're going to, we're going to get into that, all right? So, you know, the topic of the papacy and the primacy of St. Peter, and by primacy, I mean that he held a position of authority among the disciples is really, I think, to be, it's one of the most important issues in our life today. And when all is said and done, all the various doctrines

are discussed among Christians or debated, I think that the real question is, By what authority do men speak? Now, that makes sense, doesn't it? And I do pray that we wouldn't be as shallow as just to believe somebody on the Internet, including myself, to believe someone on the Internet just because they were persuasive in the way they spoke. Or they have a big church, you know, a lot of people with ex-Catholics are there, and that must mean something. But I would hope that we could listen to what the church actually teaches and what Scripture says and also involve the church fathers, you know, in their understanding of the papacy.

So if we can identify the authority and voice of Christ in the world today, all other issues will be settled, as our faith will rest on the certitude of Christ delegated authority. And that truly is, I believe, what Scripture teaches is that Jesus is the master builder, and he gave delegated authority to Peter in Matthew 16. And when you understand the context of Matthew 16, it is very clear what he's doing. I don't even think you can debate it what he's doing. And he is setting someone over the church,

and that is going to be the prime minister or the pope, a father. And we'll get into that. Okay? So every person who goes by the name Christian has a source of authority on which they determine what they will believe and what they're going to practice. It doesn't matter what denomination you're a part of. The Catholic Church, we have authority.

But if you're part of a denominational church, whether it be Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, non-denominational, Pentecostal, Assembly of God, whatever it might be, Church of Christ, there is a certain place of authority that you look to to answer your questions. And when you get into a situation, where you do not look to authority and you just go by your own, your own sense of direction,

then you really are walking on thin ice because you're walking in a way that is contrary to all of Scripture, New Testament and old, where there was authority and there was leadership. But for some reason now, in the modern times that we're living in, I'll tell you, we're living in an era where people don't think there's any authority anymore and that every man can decide for himself. Every woman can decide for herself what I'm. going to believe and that's just dangerous. I've been there. I have. I was a non-denominational pastor for 12 years. So that authority may be a popular television evangelist, an author, a school of teachers, or even just yourself. But throughout salvation history, God has always established

his authority among his people, always. And when his authority cannot be identified, guess what? Chaos breaks out. like in the book of judges. Every man did what was right in his own eyes. It was absolutely out of hand. You know, it was a mess. And that leaves people with a sense of uncertainty. And as the good shepherd, Jesus established his kingdom and he left us with organized

leadership and that should not scare anybody. Wouldn't you rather have organized leadership than disorganized leadership? You know, people say, I'm not going to be a part of organized religion. Well, then go ahead and be a part of unorganized religion and see how that goes. for you, as Dr. Phil would say. So organized leadership is important. It's for the purpose of passing on all that he taught and equipping us to lead the life that we were meant to live as children of God.

Now, I want to start a little backward the way I normally would start. Normally I'd start with scripture on this, okay? But I want to start with the catechism first, and then I want to go back to the scripture and show you how the scriptures point to. what we see as the papacy today. And I'm drawing from Catechism paragraphs 880 to 882. And I'll put that in these in the show notes for you. So don't worry about writing them down.

I'll put those together for you. But it says in the catechism that when Christ instituted the 12, he constituted them in the form of a college or permanent assembly at the head of which he placed Peter. chosen from among those disciples. And just as by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college. Not that the word college scare you there. It's a, it's a group. So in like fashion, the Roman pontiff means the bridge. It's the one who the pontiff is the bridge. It's the bridge to the rest of the world. In like fashion, the Roman pontiff,

Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are, related with and united to one another, okay? So the Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter the rock of his church, and he gave him the keys of his church, and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. And we'll look at that in Matthew 16. Now, the office of binding and loosing, which was given to Peter, was also assigned to the College of Apostles, united to its head. This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

That was Francis, the last one, number 266. We're waiting for 267 coming up. The catechism goes on in paragraph 882. I was just reading from 881 there. It says in 882, the pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity, both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful.

For the Roman pontiff, by reason of his office as vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire church, that's everybody out there, even in the denominations, has full supreme and universal power over the whole church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered. All right, okay? So what we're going to do now is we want to go back into the scriptures for a moment here, And I want to take a look at Matthew chapter 16, okay?

Because it was in the 16th chapter of Matthew that Jesus singled Peter out. And he changed his name and announced that he would build his church on him, give him the keys to the kingdom, and invest in him with the power to bind and loose in order to understand what these things meant to Peter and those listening. We need to start with the Old Testament and study these topics. Okay, so that's what we're going to do right now. Let me first read this, though, okay? Let me read Matthew 16 to you, all right?

Just to lay down the foundation here, and then we'll take a break. I'll come back, and then we'll go into some of these details. In Matthew 16, Jesus came into the district of Cessaria Philippi. That's up by Lebanon, and he asked his disciples, who do men say that the son of man is? Now, the title, Son of Man, comes from Daniel chapter 7. and you can read it. It's pretty powerful. He receives a kingdom and all power is given to him. And they said, some say John the Baptist. That's who they think the son of man is. Others said Elijah and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets. And then Jesus said to them, but who do you say that I am? In other words, he's disclosing his identity. He is the son of man. Well, that makes sense since he calls himself the son of man more than all other titles combined. So who do you say that I am?

And Simon Peter said, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus answered him, blessed are you, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood is not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven. Now listen to this. This is Matthew 16, 18. And I tell you, you are Peter. And on this rock, I will build my church. And the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

And then it goes on to verse 19. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. And whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. And then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ. Okay. So that's basically from Matthew 16, verse 13, to verse 19. Okay.

And I'm going to put those in the show notes for you. So let's take a break. When we come back, I'm going to take a look at some of what is mentioned here in Matthew chapter 16, and then I'm going to reveal a scripture in the Old Testament that's going to blow your mind because it's going to give a complete description of the papacy and the role of this quote-unquote prime minister, the one who is over the household. You're listening to the Jeff Kaven Show. I'm Father Mark Mary Ames with the Franciscan friars, the renewal. My brother and sisters at the service of becoming saints and falling in love with Jesus and Mary in the Most

Holy Rosary. The team here at Ascension Press have put together the Rosary in a year podcast. each day we're going to have a 10 to 15 minute episode where we're just going to work through the basics of the rosary who is Jesus how do we encounter Jesus who is our lady what does it mean for us to be in relationship to her we're going to go through the Hail Mary the Our Father each of the different mysteries and then we're going to bring in some saint writings on the mysteries

and some sacred art that speaks on the mysteries and all of this to help enrich our prayer to renew our prayer to help us fall in love with Jesus and Mary and to fall in love with the rosary again. If you want to join us in this journey, you can begin by going to ascentpress.com forward slash rosary in a year to download the prayer plan

and by listening and praying with us through the Rosary in a Year podcast. All right, look forward to the journey with you. Welcome back. We're talking about the papacy today, and prior to the break, I read Matthew chapter 16, which is quite clear

that Peter's confession that you are Christ, the son of the living God, is what brought on Jesus' actions when he said, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona for flesh and blood, did not reveal this to you, but my father who is in heaven, and I tell you, you are Peter. And on this rock, I'll build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. And then he gives the keys of the kingdom to Peter, and he gives him the power to bind and loose.

And that means to allow and not allow. Now, the juridical power among Israel in Jesus' day was not among 12. I can tell you that. It was the Sanhedron, 70 men. And they were the ones who had the power to bind and loose. They were the ones who were the leaders. And what Jesus does by giving the keys to Peter is he's basically taking that authority and moving it from the Sanhedron to the kingdom of God, to Jesus in his kingdom.

And specifically, he's going to give keys to Peter. So he'll have the power to bind and loose. And also, in this process, the gates of... of Hades will not prevail. And that is very powerful. That death shall not, powers of death shall not prevail against the church. And there's a reason for all of this that Jesus said. And it goes into the oral tradition of the Jews of the day. It goes back into the Old Testament as well. So the power of the papacy. Now let's take a look at the this for a moment, shall we? Now, one of the things that Jesus says to Peter is he says,

he says that you are Peter, and upon this rock, I will build my church. Now, you have to look at that and listen to it from the perspective of a Jew in the first century. What would that have conjured up in the thinking of a Jew in the first century if someone said, on this rock, I am going to build my church? Well, in the Old Testament, the idea of a rock was very important, very, very important. The term rock is used metaphorically for protection or refuge and is used in relation to both God and leaders in the Old Testament. Certainly Yahweh, God, you know, says in Psalm 951, I'll put in the notes for you. Oh, come let us sing to the Lord. Let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Okay. It refers to God. I think we can all agree on that. But it also, agrees to created beings like Abraham, like Isaiah 51, one and two. Harken to me, you who pursue deliverance, you who seek the Lord, look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the quarry from which you were digged. Look to Abraham, your father, and to Sarah who bore you, for when he was but one, I called him, and I blessed him and made him many. So here we see that not only is God called rock, but Abraham is called a rock. So for Jesus to call Peter a rock is consistent with the Old Testament. The prophet Isaiah told Israel to look to Abraham, the rock. So he's basically saying that Peter will be known as rock, just like Abraham and Yahweh in the Old Testament. But to the Jews of

the first century, the rock really meant something. Now, in the Old Testament, Solomon was the one who built the temple in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah. Okay? Now, the teaching of the Jews in the first century was that that's the only place that that temple could have been built back in Solomon's day because of the sacrifice, the sacrifice of Abraham and his attempt to sacrifice Isaac. That's where it took place on Mount Moriah in Jerusalem, right there. And when it came time to build the temple,

it was only, there was only one obvious place, and that was going to be Mount Moriah, Mount Mariah. So then Solomon, he's going to begin to build the house of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah. And that is where the Holy of Holies will be, the Ark of the Covenant, and all the furnishings. So when the Lord had appeared to David, his father, at the place that David had appointed on the threshing floor of Ornan, the Jebusite, it was there at Mount Moriah. And now there is there, among Jewish teaching, a foundation stone on Mariah where the temple was built called the Evanchetia. The Evanchetia. I'll put it in the show notes for you.

And you can practice that when you're jogging. Evanchetia, it means the capstone. It's the most important stone in Judaism. You see, the Jews believe that when the waters parted after creation, that stone was the first to appear. And they also believe that this stone was the very stone upon which Abraham offered Isaac. And so why is this important? Because Solomon chose to build the temple at that location. And the temples built at the same spot where Abraham offered Isaac.

So the Jews believed that the only place the temple could have been built was right there. And see, they believe that they saw the presence of God in the temple. as protecting something. What is that something? Listen, the Jews believed in the first century that there was a shaft there from the surface of the ground down into Hades. That's what they believed.

I'm not saying that's biblical. I'm saying that's what they believed and taught. And they believed that the temple was built on top of that to do what? So that the spirits of Hades would not prevail. That hell would not prevail. that the presence of God would be on top of that. That is something they knew. That's something that everybody there understood.

Most people today have never heard it before. So they wouldn't know what that really meant in Matthew. And he said, the gates of hell will not prevail upon this kingdom that I'm building on the rock. But to all those standing around, trust me, oh, trust me, they knew. They knew exactly what he was talking about. So when Jesus said, upon this rock, I'll build my church. says to all hearing that God is building his temple. And everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock. That's what

Jesus said in Matthew 724. And Jesus also said the powers of hell will not prevail. It was believed that the Evan Shetia stone covered the opening to Hades. Now that makes sense now where Jesus would say to Peter, upon this rock, you, Peter, I'm going to build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail. You see, what we're going to be looking at in this next week with the election of a new pope, it's so important. Why? Because even the work of the enemy cannot withstand this. We need a leader who stands against that, right? We need a father who protects his family. That's why this is so important. So who is Jesus echoing in all this?

Solomon. The wise man of Israel was Solomon. Solomon built the Lord's house on the rock. And Jesus said there's someone greater than Solomon here. Remember that? He said that in Matthew 1242. Something greater than Solomon is here. And so the Jews believed that the temple would not be made with human hands.

That the Messiah would build this temple without human hands. and when the Messiah arrived the temple would appear and that's also the card that the leadership threw at Pontius Pilate that we overheard this guy say it's a lie

destroy this temple and in three days I'll build it up again without hands which is what they believed in those days but it isn't what Jesus said so Solomon was the wise man who built the temple upon a rock Mariah so now the greater

than Solomon the real son of David will build the true house of God. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Isn't it? I just think that's incredible. So let's look at a couple other things. And real quick here, shall we? We know this, but you are Christ, the Son of the Living God. Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you. But my father, who is in heaven, and I tell you, you are Peter, rock, and on this rock, I'll build my church. And the powers of death shall not prevent. veil against it. Okay. Then he says, I'll give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth shall be

loosed in heaven. Now, that is really important because I'm begging you, if you are not Catholic and you have contemplated this whole question of the papacy, be honest with the scriptures. Let the scriptures speak to you, not you speak to the scriptures and tell the scriptures what they're going to mean. Let them speak to you. Now, in the Old Testament, there's only one place where a figure receives keys. Only one. You want to hear it? Okay? It's Isaiah 22. Now, I'm going to read this to you here, and I'm going to put it in the show notes, but it's going to make Matthew 1619, I'll give you the keys to the kingdom, absolutely sing. Like a symphony. Isaiah 22, Isaiah the prophet is talking about the ousting of one person who was the prime minister

and the bringing in of another one, okay? And I think this is going to make a lot of sense to you once you hear it. You see, there was a position in the Old Testament that worked with the king. and it was called the al-habait in Hebrew. Al-Habait, the one who's over the household. It's the one who's over the household. It's an actually, it's a position like prime minister or it's a secretary of the interior, you know, positions like that today, secretary of state.

It's a real position. It's an office in the kingdom. I didn't make that up. Church didn't make that up. It's in the Bible. And most people who are familiar with Jewish teaching in the, Tanakh, the Old Testament, know this very well. So listen to what it says, okay.

Thus says the Lord God of hosts, come, go to this steward to Shevna, who is over the house and say to him, what have you to do here? And whom have you here, that you have hewn here, a tomb for yourself. You who hew a tomb on the height and carve a habitation for yourself and the rock. Behold, the Lord will hurl you away violently, oh, you strong man. He will seize firm hold on you and whirl you round about and throw you like a ball into a wide land. There you shall die. And there shall be your splendid chariots, you shame of your father's house.

And I will thrust you from your office. Listen to that. I will thrust you from your office and you will be cast down from your station. In that day, I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah. now listen carefully here verse 21 and I will clothe him with your robe and will bind your girdle on him

and will commit your authority to his hand and he shall be a papa he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah and I will place on his shoulders the key there it is

and I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David he shall open and none shall shut and he shall shut and none shall open. There's that juridical language now that the Sanhedron had and Jesus is moving it to Peter. That's the power to bind and loose and it goes with the man who has the keys. Oh my. And listen, I'll fasten him like a peg in a sure place and he will become a throne of honor to his father's house

and they will hang on him the whole weight of his father's house. Now, that's the description of the al-habait, the prime minister. that's the one right there that and Jesus you know refers to Peter sometimes in his teaching as the one who is over the household and and in in addition to that Peter's the only one that got the keys now if you want to know if you want to know who the prime minister is in the New Testament which I hope is a question you'd want to know then you're going to have to look for keys. Okay? So people ask me, well, you know, tell me, what are the biblical foundations for the papacy? I said, well, let's go look at Matthew 16. We're going to look at

Isaiah 22. Those are the two. And so I give them Isaiah 22 here, which is the description of the al-habait, the prime minister, and I tell them, this is the one that receives the key of the house of David. This is the one that can bind and loose. This is the one that is driven like a sure peg, a fasten like a peg in a sure place. And the image there is of a tent. It's held together by ropes that are dug into the ground with pegs. And then there is one rope that brings all of the ropes together and tightens them. And that one is put into the ground like a like a shore peg. And that holds together the whole house. And that's what the prime minister does. And the role of the prime minister in the Old Testament was to take care of the kingdom when the

King was gone, sick, or dead. Again, I didn't make this up. Catholic Church didn't make this up. Peter is the fulfillment of Old Testament teaching. It's prophetic. So you have this. He has a robe. He's called a father.

It just goes on and on. There's the description. So we go back to Matthew's Gospel. And I'll ask you, standing around. I'm with you, standing around with the decisive. and someone asks us the question, who's the al-habi in the New Testament? Well, who's the king, first of all? Well, that's Jesus.

Jesus is the king. Okay. So if Jesus is going to fulfill all righteousness, that is that all scripture will find its fulfillment in Jesus, then we have to, listen, we have to look for that position. You cannot call yourself a Bible student and purposely ignore these things. You have to look for it. and I feel very strongly about that of this pick and choose attitude you know that well I'm going to just ignore that it looks good and I see what you're saying but I'm not going to believe it why not let the word of God speak to you like it did for the church in the first 1500 years and all the early church fathers who are far more lettered men than me or you so all I would have to say to you standing around if you said who is the al-habait all I'd have to say is, I don't know. Who's got the keys? Well, Peter's got the keys. Question answered. That was simple.

That was simple. There's no arguing here. There's no looking into the text in some, you know, in three or four languages and then saying, you know, prayers over it for a week. And then nothing like that. Let it speak to you. I give you the keys to the kingdom. You see, the son of David is giving the keys to Peter and he's saying to him what you bind on earth is bound in heaven what you loose on earth is loose in heaven and this temple that I'm building will stop the gates of Hades do you see the two just line them up there it is there it is and so Peter becomes the father and there's a primacy to Peter among the 12 and he is responsible so that if the king leaves, there will be

somebody that's going to be running this church and leading this church. Now, what's the Pope in charge of? Well, he's in charge of holding the church together, protecting the deposit of faith that was given by Jesus to the early church and listen to this. To assure that you're going to

be fed, the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus, the most important and most precious thing on earth, you must know that that priest who is praying in the mass and saying, this is my body, This is my blood is connected to Peter. That's how we know.

That's why this is important. Because when you go to Mass, you don't want to have to ask yourself, well, who is this guy up here saying this? And who's that guy? Where did he go to school or anything like that? You want to know that you're connected to Peter. And that's why Pope 267 will be connected to Peter. So you can eat. You can be nourished.

You can be fed. You can be sure. You can experience a sense of certitude about the faith that's been handed on. You can be fathered. You can be cared for. You can be free from theological error if you go with what the church teaches. Man, this is important. Man, this is important. Wow. This isn't just who's going to run the club. This is who's going to father you. Who is going to maintain that custody of the teaching and that line of authority for ordaining priests and deacons so that that very same body and blood of Jesus that

was offered the last supper will be offered to you not a symbol not consubstantiation somehow God is with him not a symbol not a memory but the body and blood soul and divinity of Jesus Christ will be given to you in the mass and it's by the authority of Peter that this comes down to you. That's why every news agency in the world will converge on Rome this coming week. That's why. Because it's just that important. It's just that important.

Sometimes you've got to wonder, don't you? You've got to wonder why some Catholics wouldn't believe that communion is the body and blood of Christ. and that the news agency seem to take the papacy more seriously. That's to our shame. Take some time this week. Teach your children. I'll get you these notes.

I'll put it all in there for you. Teach your children. Be careful of what you talk about when you leave Mass on Sunday. Protect the beauty of the church and protect the authority of the papacy. But, Jeff, weren't there some bad ones? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. There's a few.

didn't change anything about what we teach. Sure. But you know what? In my 48 years of ministry, I've run into three or four bad husbands. But I don't hear anybody trying to throw that out. I don't know about this husband thing. I heard there's this one guy that got drunk and ran off with a lady to Vegas.

Oh, really? Okay, well, it's just collapsed the whole thing then. No. No. You see, the Pope is just like you and me in that. He has to live a holy life. He has to go to confession. He has to wrestle with himself.

But he is in the seat of Peter. And there's authority there. And there's a charism there. That is a mystery. But it's what we hold to. And listen, it's what is held us together for over 2,000 years. We haven't even been able to destroy ourselves. It's the oldest organization, the oldest family in the world.

Churches come and go all the time. Churches that I pastor are gone. But the Catholic Church will endure. It will endure. And you won't see Catholics supporting abortion. Never did, don't, never will. Never. You'll see them protecting marriage.

You see, the Pope is at the service of the church. He's at the service of the Word of God in the kingdom. And that's what we're going to be praying about. And the Cardinals, the College of Cardinals are going to be getting together in the conclave. And they're going to come up with 267. whoever that is. Let's pray, shall we right now? And feel free to share this with your friends.

I just wanted to pour this out today and just give it to you, you know, about the teachings from the Bible. In the name of the Father's Son and the Holy Spirit, Lord Jesus, I thank you so much for giving us a church, a family, a kingdom. And Lord, we've come to a very important point where the Holy Father is passed, the seat is vacant, and we are all praying and asking, Lord, give us what we need now. Lord Jesus, may this next pope be who you choose for the times that we're living in. And may we all be supportive and learn what we can gain from this as individual disciples,

as families, as parishes, diocese, countries. We lift up the College of Cardinals and ask Holy Spirit come down upon them and lead and guide them in Jesus' name. Amen. I love you. times. I'm glad I can go through this with you. And again, if you want the notes, as you can see, there's a lot here. You can just simply text my name, Jeff Kaven's, one word, to 33777. That's 3377. God bless you. Can't wait to talk next week.