The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - The Value of Suffering

Episode Date: January 31, 2025

Suffering is a universal human experience that is difficult to embrace. Jeff Cavins explores how suffering can be a transformative and redemptive experience when we unite it with Christ's suffering. Drawing on Scripture verses and the teachings of St. John Paul II, Jeff provides deep insight and encouragement on how we can find deeper meaning in our suffering. Snippet from the Show Suffering more clears the way for grace so our souls can be transformed.  Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit https://media.ascensionpress.com/?s=&page=2&category%5B0%5D=Ascension%20Podcasts&category%5B1%5D=The%20Jeff%20Cavins%20Show for full shownotes!

Welcome to the Jeff Kaven Show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together and living as activated disciples. This is show 414, The Value of Suffering. Thank you for joining me again this week. We're going to talk about suffering today, but we typically talk about discipleship, Bible study and growing as a disciple in the Lord. And today, it's one of those topics that inevitably will affect everybody. It really will. In the last couple of weeks, I have been talking, you know, really directly to my friends in L.A. because of the fires out there, the destruction

and the aftermath, it's good to encourage one another. And there's different ways to encourage each other. And last week, I talked about three valuable lessons or three valuable things that are necessary to build from the ashes, literally. And we use scripture as Rehemiah. We talked about the temple being destroyed by fire in 587 BC. And then how to rebuild. And that was show 413 if you want to go back and look at that. My initial thoughts show 412.

And today we're going to take a little look here at the value of suffering. And it's going to be interesting because this is not something that you typically would just start talking to somebody about who is going. through hell on earth in their own words. And so what is our response? And I think that there are a couple of responses here. But first of all, little housekeeping. If you do want the show notes, today's going to be chalk filled. You're going to get a lot of show notes today. You're going to get a lot of scriptures. You're going to get a lot of quotes from John Paul II about suffering, even the ones I'm not going to use on the show today. I'm just going to put it all together and

give it to you. And I really encourage you to share this show with other people who have been by the fires in L.A., but who also have been affected by the fires of life anywhere, anywhere, North America, the Philippines, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, everywhere. If you do want the show notes, you can text me at 33777. Just text my name, Jeff Kaven's, one word. To the number 33777. We'll get them in your mailbox, pronto, right away. So let's talk first of all about talking about suffering, when people are suffering. I was a pastor for 12 years. I have had many, many, many a hospital call, many funerals, many marriages, many, many opportunities to be with people when the chips were down, when it was

really tough in their life. And I was asked when I came back to the Catholic Church, what do you miss about being a pastor? And every time I said, you know what I miss is I miss being there at the crisis. I miss being there to be Christ to people who are suffering, people who are really going through it. And today, you know, I find that I can still do that. I can still be with people who are suffering and offer them advice and encouragement and prayer. And I don't have to be a pastor outside the Catholic Church to do that. I'm a disciple of the Lord, and I can do that very well. But there is almost this unwritten rule that when people are suffering, you talk to them more more in a hallmark way.

You know, it's more of a hallmark encouragement than it is a biblical encouragement. But what does the gospel say, what did Jesus teach about suffering, and should you share with someone who's suffering while they're in the middle of it? The answer I think is, yes, let your words be soaked in love and tenderness and mercy and comfort, non-judgmental, and be a brother, be a sister, be a father and a mother to people who are suffering. Now, when I was a pastor, I would go into the hospital rooms and I was with cancer patients and people who had had strokes and accidents and all kinds of things, burn victims. And in my time with them, I really felt I needed to use that time wisely, not to just sit there with them. I mean,

family does that in spades and that's good and necessary. But I would spend my time with them talking theology and talking about the mystery of suffering. Now, as a Protestant, before I came back to the Catholic Church. I didn't have nearly as much to say about this as I do now, and I still go into hospital rooms and talk to people about it. So there is this feeling that you shouldn't talk about it, but I really think that it's essential to hit it head on. It's ironic, though, that when people are suffering, we talk to them about suffering, but we don't just talk to them about suffering, like, you know, making sure they understand what just happened to them. But we talk to them about the value of suffering when we join our suffering with Christ, the value in our

suffering. You can do something with it. It's like heavenly cash, if you will. It's like a coin that can purchase what cannot be bought. And there is grace and there is power in suffering. And all we have to do is look at the cross of Jesus and that's where this all begins. And when we see Luke chapter 24, the Emmaus wrote, Jesus joined with Cleopis and another friend. And what did he do? Well, these people, their heads were hung low. They were disappointed in the crucifixion. They thought he was the Messiah.

They're walking away from the action in Jerusalem. And Jesus joins him. What are you talking about? Are you the only one that doesn't know? What? About Jesus. And then Jesus gives this amazing teaching from the writings, the prophets, from the law about, why it was necessary that the Messiah must suffer.

So the gold standard here in suffering is the cross. If you have one in your car, you have one in your office now, wherever you happen to be. If there's a cross, take a look at it. That's the gold standard. That's the gold standard of love and suffering. And we find the meaning of our suffering in his suffering. So some of the things I'm going to share here with you are things that I would weave into a conversation with a tender heart. to people who are suffering and I wouldn't just tell them about it I would stand with them I would

pray with them I would I'd give them a hug you know and let them know that you're not alone and not many people have the the spiritual guts I guess you would say to be honest and to give people the opportunity to experience a valuable stretch of road in their life a rough and bumpy road to be sure, but a stretch of bumpy highways. Okay? So let's talk, first of all, about the problem with happiness. There is a problem in the way that we look at happiness in our culture today. You know, the ancient question was, in the end of life, what is the end of life? And Aristotle answered happiness. Happiness is what we seek. And the meaning of the word happiness has changed since Aristotle's time. Today, we define it as something wholly subjective. It's a feeling. It's

something that we feel. And the pre-modern writers meant that happiness was an objective state. First of all, not merely a subjective feeling, but an objective state. And so the Greek, the Greek for happiness literally means good spirit or good soul. And so to be happy is to be good. For modern man, what gives his life meaning, feeling good? Now, the ancient's answer is being good. Feeling good is not compatible with suffering, is it?

Being good is, however. Furthermore, the most popular modern answer to the question of what it means to be good is to be kind, to make others, do not make others suffer, to not allow other people to suffer, to be kind. Now, by this standard, God is not good if he lets us suffer, is he? But by ancient standards, God might be good even though he lets us suffer if he does it for the sake of the greater end of happiness, perfection of life, character, and soul. Peter Crave talks about this a lot.

And, you know, I really encourage you to get a hold of anything by Peter Crafe when it comes to suffering. I think he is like a guru in this area. So suffering did not refute the ancient mind's belief in God because a good God might well sacrifice our subjective happiness for our objective happiness. But the modern mind finds it hard to make that distinction, doesn't it? It really does. As Peter Crave says, a quick reflection on human parenting tells us that we know deep down that the ancient mind is right.

Parents who want only freedom from suffering for their children are not wise parents. Paul's view of life, I would suggest we adopt is that we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. That's Romans 828. Now, the gold standard, I think, is the cross, I know, is the cross of Jesus Christ. As far as human beings go, who have suffered and are acquainted with it, there are a lot of saints who have been down that road. And John Paul II, St. Pope John Paul II, is to me the greatest. I just enjoy everything he writes and everything he talks about.

And he suffered greatly. He really did. and he has a document that I would encourage you to download from v.a. It's on the meaning of human suffering by John Paul II, Salvefici Dolores. Okay, so we've got the meaning of suffering, the meaning for suffering in the modern era, very, very important. And he says in that document that suffering is almost inseparable from man's earthly existence. And he goes into two kinds of suffering.

now both of these are the sufferings of our LA friends two different kinds of suffering number one physical suffering when the body is hurting lots of people were hurt we lost loved ones right and that that goes right into the second kind of suffering moral suffering and moral suffering is the when the soul hurts you lost your home and your soul hurts you lost your business you lost your pet you lost a loved one and your soul is aching. And so those two different kinds of suffering, physical suffering and moral suffering, are very important. And by the way, this is what I would share with someone one-on-one, sitting in a hospital room or getting a cup of coffee, trying to help them understand the scope here, what's really at stake and what they've gone through without minimizing anything. Now, the Old Testament is filled with examples of suffering, particularly moral suffering,

the danger of death, the death of a child, infertility, longing for the homeland of Canaan, mockery, scorn, loneliness, abandonment, difficulty understanding why the wicked prosper, the unfaithfulness of friends and neighbors. So Christ had compassion for people with either type of suffering. My dear L.A. friends, if you are struggling physically and morally, we are with you, and we will join you in making this the best that we can and to bring value out of it. Now, John Paul II also goes on to talk about not just two kinds of suffering, physical and moral, but two types. Temporal suffering, due to the consequences of sin, suffering illness and death. And then he talks about something very important, and that is definitive suffering.

John Paul II says man perishes when he loses eternal life. The opposite of salvation is not, therefore, only temporal suffering and a certain kind of suffering, but the definitive suffering, the loss of eternal life, being rejected, forever, damnation. And the only begotten son, Jesus Christ, was given to humanity primarily to protect man against the definitive evil and definitive suffering. So now here's, and I'll put this in the show notes for you, I'm just going to put it right in there. you can, there it is. Colossians 124. And Colossians 124, Paul says something that seems to be ironic. He says, I rejoice in my suffering for your sake. And I fill up in my body, that which is lacking in the

sufferings of Christ. Now, that's the big question here today. What possibly could be lacking in the sufferings of Christ? And if God wants to be kind toward us and keep us from any kind of suffering, and that's what happiness is, then why is he doing this? Why does he give us any opportunity to suffer? I would advance this thought, and that is that if there is any value in suffering, that can bring happiness to your life, can bring completeness to your life now and for eternity, if there's any possibility of gaining something valuable from suffering, he's going to do it.

He's going to make it available. But if it's totally needless, then he can, can just turn off any opportunity to suffer, right? Any opportunity. But there is meaning in suffering. And it goes back to the suffering of Christ. Jesus loved you so much that he died for you. Jesus loved you so much that he suffered for you.

He suffered in the temporal order. He suffered physically moral suffering to be, be sure, but he loved you. If you have a crucifix, just look at it. That's love. Love isn't just an ooey-gooey feeling and fuzzy and all that and first dates. That could be more an infatuation, but God loves you. Look at the crucifix. That's it. That's it. And he wants you to know about that suffering. He wants you to know about that life and that love. Now, we're going to look at some scriptures and some quotes from John Paul II and kind of fill this out so that It has some meaning.

We're going to do it very quickly, but that's the way we need to do it when we have time to talk to people in a hospital or in a counseling situation, whatever it might be. We'll be back. You're listening to The Jeff Kaven Show. Hey, guys, my name's Father Mike Schmitz. I am excited to announce that I'll be launching the parables tour this spring. We'll come together and we'll see what the Lord wants to share with us in his word through the parables.

And then we'll follow that with a live Q&A. So if you're interested, go to ascensionpress.com slash Father Mike tour to find out dates and locations. That's ascensionpress.com slash F-R-M-I-K-E tour. God bless and we'll see you there. Thanks for returning talking today about the value of suffering. And again, I just want to make that point that it seems ironic, doesn't it? Almost uncomfortable to talk to somebody about suffering and the value of it while they're suffering. Shouldn't we wait till they're done?

Shouldn't we wait to they rebuild? Shouldn't we wait till they get their life and their act back together again? hardly it's like a doctor saying to a patient uh i want to work on this case i want to help you but let's do it after you're healed no the time to give the medicine and the loving encouragement is when people are suffering and that's that's the mark of a disciple that's the mark of someone who loves somebody if they're willing to enter the arena with them and share rather than sit in the stands and say i'm cheering you on and when you're better we can talk about this whole thing of suffering So let's talk about it. Paul says, I rejoice in my suffering for your sake, and I fill up in my body that which is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. Now, it sounds weird, doesn't it, that there would be something lacking in the sufferings of Christ? Well, the question was asked of St. Augustine. It was asked of many saints, in fact, including St. John Paul II. And I'm going to choose Augustine and John Paul II to answer that question. What could possibly be lacking? Did Jesus get to heaven,

sit down at the right hand of the father and say, oh, they, I forgot three percent? No, he did not. It was 100%. And here's what St. Augustine said about that question. What's lacking? He said, what's lacking in the sufferings of Christ? Is the suffering of the mystical body of Christ?

That's the church. Hmm. You mean there's some element of participation in the church in the sufferings of Christ that completes the whole picture? Yeah. that's what he's saying. That's what he's saying. Now, that begs the question, doesn't it?

Why? Why? I was lost in my sins. I was dying. I was going to hell. I was completely gone as far as eternal life. And he did it all for me and redeemed me. He helped me and caused me to be born again.

So I don't understand why St. Augustine would, why would we do anything? Now, that's where John Paul II comes in. And John Paul II says, is there anything lacking in the sufferings of Christ? He says no. But here it is, that you might come to know the love of God. He has made room in his suffering for you to participate. Oh, wow. That's the gold right there.

This is what I tell people. My friends in L.A., I say this with all loved and tenderness. Right now, there is an opportunity for you to join with Christ. And if you'll join with Christ, the suffering that you're going through will be transformed. It will become redemptive. And that is a very powerful thing. And so what John Paul II is saying is that God loves you so much that he wants you to know this love. He wants you to participate.

He wants you to touch it, taste it, feel it, experience it. And that can happen with a broken finger, a broken heart, or a house burnt down. You can go to the fountain of life, Jesus Christ, the one who loves you and embraces you, the shepherd of your soul, your husband. And you can join yourself with him in all this agony that you are going through, and he transforms it into something marvelous. Something marvelous. Now, some people are going to reject that.

And others are going to say, wow. Wow, I never saw it like that before. Wow. Husbands, fathers. gather your family, hold your family, share with them the truth of suffering and how you as a family can offer this up and walk in faith, like we talked about last week, the church, the sacraments, the word of God, the community, all those things that are so important in building from the ashes. So that's what John Paul II said is that God is giving you in your suffering an opportunity to

taste what love is all about. And you know what he said? And I'm going to share this with you. It will be in the in the show notes. Listen to this now. This is in from self-ifugee Dolores paragraph 27. The springs of divine power gush forth precisely in the midst of human weakness. Those who share in the sufferings of Christ preserved in their own sufferings, a very special particle of the infinite treasure of the world's redemption. Get this. And can share this treasure with others. Oh, wow.

Oh, wow. Let me say that again. This is so worth it. This is worth putting on a index card or something. Give a copy to everybody in your family. Text it to everybody in your family if you are suffering, especially in L.A. The springs of divine power gush forth precisely in the midst of human weakness. Those who share in the sufferings of Christ, preserved in their own suffering a very special particle.

My friend, you got a special particle of the infinite treasure of the world's redemption. And you can share this treasure with others. That's directed giving. You can share this with others. And all of my brothers and sisters around the country, including you, you can offer up your suffering today for those people in L.A., for the families, for the elderly, for those who don't have family near them. For those who lost their business and their income, you can offer up

your suffering for them. L.A., we have you. We have your back. We're going to do this for you around the country, okay? We are with you. Now, I think that is an amazing insight from John Paul II, and that means that your suffering, whether it's physical

or moral, has meaning and that means that it's not for nothing. It's not for nothing. Is it unfortunate. Yes, it is at the natural level. It's very unfortunate. And I wouldn't want to go through that. But I've been in situations that I didn't want to go through. But I had to embrace the cross in the midst of it. And I can tell you this, my friends in L.A., it transformed my life. And if somebody would have told me two weeks before I needed to hear that, something about it,

I went, ah, that is nothing to do with me. But I've had a few people be honest enough with me to tell me truth one's john paul the second not personally but through his readings but i've had other people that reminded me aka my wife jeff you need to offer this up oh i don't want to hear it you're right i do and i can understand why someone would say oh i don't want to hear that but you know i know we don't want to hear it but maybe we need to hear it maybe we do john paul the second went on to say that suffering is an extremely important aspect it is profoundly rooted in the entire revelation of the old and above all the new covenant suffering must serve for conversion that is for the rebuilding of goodness in the subject and that's what can happen in all of our lives it is suffering he said more than anything else imagine that here's a saint saying it is suffering more than anything else he doesn't say it's up there near the top. He said, it is suffering more than anything else, L.A., which clears the way for the grace, which transforms human souls. And he says down through the centuries and generations

it has been seen that in suffering, there is concealed a particular power that draws a person interiorly close to Christ. A special grace. Isn't that beautiful? I really love that. So many good things. And of course, scripture is filled with truth on this topic. You know, Paul said, we know that all things work together for the good to those who love God. We can talk about that. Second Corinthians 12, 9, my grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness. And Paul said to the Corinthians, for as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ, we share abundantly in comfort too. Comfort is coming. First Peter, for rejoice in so far as you share Christ's sufferings that you may also rejoice and be glad

when his glory is revealed. There's so many more. I'm going to put them all in the show notes for you. I'm just going to throw it all in here. How many do I have here? I've got 10, 11, 11 scriptures and I got six quotes from John Paul II. There they are. Cut paste. They're yours. I'm going to put them in the show notes there. I'm going to also put in the different types of suffering, the different kinds of suffering. So let me just say this. Once we know that in our suffering, we have an opportunity to touch the love of God and to participate, we have a choice. Am I going to do it or am I going to run, hide, deny, become angry? Or am I going to press into this mystery and experience it and say, I have touched the love of God. I have participated. I'm one with Christ here. Jesus, use my

suffering. Use it. And so what I'm going to encourage you to do, around the world, especially in L.A., but around the world for L.A. For our brothers and sisters, I'm going to encourage you to take whatever it is in your life right now, whatever suffering it is physical or moral, and offer it up. And the best place to do that is in the mass. It is in the mass when the priest raises the patent. We are there. We're there on the patent.

My suffering. Take it, Jesus. Transform it. It's the big, big transform. that's taking place. And Jesus takes your suffering. He redeemed it. He redeemed your body, your soul.

You completely, including John Paul II, says, your suffering. He redeemed it. So it's valuable. And then say, Jesus, I offer this up in union with your suffering for my brothers and sisters in L.A. And something will happen.

Something marvelous will happen. You might not see it where you're sitting. But in the spirit realm, things are happening. They are happening. And if you're in L.A. and you've been affected by all of this, I encourage you to press into the cross, to wrap your arms around Jesus and to say, Jesus, this is for you. Use this in any way you can. I love you, Jesus. I love you. And I thank you for dying for me. I thank you for suffering for me. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to be so close and intimate to your suffering as I am now by giving you my suffering.

That's what we can do around the country. That's what we can do with our lives. And you see, there's such a difference between that and hallmark theology. Right now, nobody needs hallmark theology. It's trite. It's surface. And in some ways, it really ticks people off. You try to comfort people with such trivial words in the face of such incredible suffering.

And so the incredible suffering must be met with an incredible revelation. My friend, you know that revelation. We've talked about it many times on this show throughout the years. I wrote a book on suffering, actually, called When You Suffer, Biblical Keys for Hope and Understanding. And that's available online. So let's pray, shall we? Let's pray. And I hope that this is of some encouragement to you, even if you are out in L.A.

or you're facing your own set of circumstances. That's what I want to. I want to be here for that. I want to be here as a brother to help you. This isn't entertainment or anything like that. This is a business. This is a kingdom business. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Lord, as I look upon your cross, I thank you for loving me so deeply and loving me so completely. Jesus, I am satisfied with life knowing you have done this for me. I lift up my suffering to you and I ask, Lord, that my suffering, this transformative stuff in my life would be for those in L.A., my brothers and sisters, every inconvenience, every hurt, every moral wound of the heart. I offer it up, Lord Jesus, I thank you. I thank you that this is valuable. And Lord, use this as you will for my friends in L.A. We collectively, Lord, around the world right now we pray for our brothers and sisters they are not alone they are so valuable that even our

suffering is brought to the cross here for them and we ask for the prayers of our mother hail mary full of grace the lord is with thee blessed art thou amongst women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus holy mary mother of god pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen amen the father and the son and the holy spirit amen remember share the show with anybody who is going through it. Thank you.