The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - White Smoke And Your Future

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

What can we expect from Pope Leo XIV? Jeff Cavins discusses the recent election of Pope Leo XIV, exploring the excitement and implications of his leadership. Through a series of reflective questions, Jeff encourages listeners to pray for the Pope so that he may effectively lead the Church closer to Christ. Snippet from the Show Every Pope must rise to the call to lay down his life for Christ and the Church. Email us with comments or questions at [e-mail]. Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 to subscribe and get Jeff’s shownotes delivered straight to your email! Or visit https://media.ascensionpress.com/?s=&page=2&category%5B0%5D=Ascension%20Podcasts&category%5B1%5D=The%20Jeff%20Cavins%20Show for full shownotes!

Welcome to the Jeff Kaven Show, where we talk about the Bible, discipleship, and evangelization, putting it all together in living as activated disciples. This is show 430, White Smoke and Your Future. Hello, my friend, thank you so much for joining me once again. This is the Jeff Kaven Show. Once a week, we talk about everything. everything discipleship everything's scripture all about becoming christ in the world and wow is it exciting right now it's exciting because we have a new papa habemus papum right and that is we have Pope leo the 14th

and the world is a buzz right now and people are asking questions where do you think this is going what do you think his emphasis would be let's look back at the name of pope leo the 13th what was he all about. Why is this perhaps a continuation of some of those things? It's an exciting time. But if you're like me, when I was watching that revealing of who the Cardinals had elected as the next pope, I was reading the faces of people down in St. Peter's Square. And when they announced that we have a new pope, the faces on the people gave way to what really is at stake here, not just as a not a political thing or anything like that. It's a matter of we received a papa, received a father. And that's what put that smile on people's faces. They knew they weren't alone. God cares about

us. God gives us leadership that is ordained by him given to us as a result of prayer from our leaders in Rome and the white smoke flew. And so it's exciting. Hey, by the way, before I get going on this week's show. Ascension Press has a new book coming out and it is called When the White Smoke clears. When the White Smoke clears. And you can pre-order a copy of that. I'm going to put the link in the show notes for you and you can get a hold of that. I think it's going to be a really good look at Pope Leo, the 14th, the man, the name Pope Leo, the times that were in, his past record and is there evidence of where he might be headed in the future, as well as how to pray for him? I think it's going to be a very good book, and there's a number of really wonderful men and women who are going to be contributing to it.

We have Dr. Marcholino di Ambrosio, undoubtedly the best name in the church today. We have Dr. Michael Daphne, and he is going to be contributing to it. We have Dr. Edward III, Katie McGrady, and we have Father Mike. he's going to be part of it. Father Josh Johnson is going to be a part of it. And then there's going to be a number of others. And I'm going to contribute to it as well, honored to be a part of it. So I'll put that in the show notes for you. So you can go ahead and get your copy ahead of time. So it's going to be one of those questions. You know, where were you when Pope Leo was elected? Where were you? Well, I know where I was. I was as a kind of, I guess you

would say on standby with Fox News and waiting to go on and talk about this Holy Father. And I was at the seminary in St. Paul, and that place erupted. It erupted. And then I had to leave because I was on standby and see if I might be able to contribute over at Fox a little bit. But it was an amazing thing. And I remember looking at the faces of the people in the crowd. And at first they had this blank look on their face when they announced who the new Pope was. and people were like, what?

Robert, Robert, what? And people were kind of not quite clear and they couldn't hear real well. And then once they realized who it was, oh my gosh, the roof came off of St. Peter's Square. And the people went crazy. So did the seminarians, by the way. So I was looking at the people in St. Peter's Square

and when their face went from blank to absolute joy, I saw something that was not political, not left, not right, not modern. it, I saw something in the faces of the people that said what this is all about, and that was they have a father. And that is what this country needs. They need to be fathered. They need to be led and loved and taught and protected and cared for. And that's what the Holy Father does. And I think we're in for some good days ahead. I really do. You know, just looking at Pope Leo the 14th, just the demeanor on his face is one of peace. Calm. It's one of love. It's one of

leadership. It's one of duty. And I think that's really, really clear when you look at him. And then when you look at its background, wow, this is quite a story. It really is. Well, I'm going to be contributing a chapter to that book. I want to draw a little bit today from some of the things that I might be adding to this conversation, just to think about a little bit with you today. And as always, if you want the show notes, all you got to do is text my name, Jeff Kavens to the number 3-3-777-3.33-7-7. I'm smiling right now because I'm telling you, over the last few days, I have been smiling a lot. And tears come to my eyes sometimes when I see the church in motion. It's not just one man. It's the church in motion. It's the church doing what

the church does, unlike any other organization or family in the world. Oh, yeah, we got our problems, don't we? Yeah, you do, I do. Every family. does but when when papa when father is home that can mean an awful lot so you know prior to the to the white smoke clearing the world was really really busy with this anticipation you know as to what the next pope would be and and you you saw it on the news reporters from networks you know they were crafting really clever inquisitive questions that would reveal the agenda and the political influences you know And the internet influencers, this is new with this papacy, a little bit with Pope Francis, but they place themselves in the fray, hoping to contribute some interesting background and history,

you know, play by play and color commentary on everything that was going on, which just enriched the event as the whole world was focused on Rome. Now, what was conspicuously missing, however, was what I would call an in-depth look at what the Bible had to say about the position. And the world was focusing on this position, but I rarely heard anybody talk about the biblical aspect of it. It was usually political and social movements and that type of thing. So is there such a thing in the Bible as the Pope? And if so, what is the background of such a position? And what can we learn from the Bible that will help us discern the kind of man who would hold such a serious and consequential position in the church? Now, in terms of the biblical foundation of the

papacy. I think you're going to hear about that in this new book that ascension has coming out when the white smoke clears. But suffice it to say that Isaiah 22 and Matthew 16 are two major chapters that really unravel this idea of the papacy. And in those two chapters, we have not only the mention of an office that's occupied by a man, chosen by a king, but a man who would be a father and who would have the juridical power to bind and loose. And that means to allow and disallow the details of the kingdom, if you will. So when we come to Matthew chapter 16, we see that Jesus continues with this office that was mentioned in Isaiah 22, and he receives the keys to the kingdom, something that was mentioned

in this office in the Old Testament in Isaiah 22. And that means that Peter has the authority to bind and loose, forbid and allow. and that with all that pertains to the kingdom. And so it's actually quite easy to determine who the leader is in the New Testament if you know the Old Testament, and that is who has the keys. Very simple question, the very simple problem to solve. And it's Peter who has the keys. Now, one of the things that really hit me as I thought about this,

the rabbis of Jesus Day were master teachers who were skilled at discovering and giving the interpretation of scriptures. And when engaging with their students, that's Talme deem in Hebrew for you, they did not typically just kind of lay out the meaning of the biblical text. Rather, they asked questions, Q&A. And those questions would, in turn, engage the student and draw them into the answer.

And in doing so, the student gained a clear understanding of the topics at hand. And the questions themselves revealed a mystery. that the student didn't immediately see. In addition, the questions guided the students to the treasure. Now, this is the approach that I have been taking recently in thinking about the Pope, and I've been doing a lot of interviews on network news

and cable news and so forth. And this is what I have been thinking about when people want to talk about Pope Leo the 14th. And here's what I did. In searching the New Testament, I chose five questions that were asked of Peter or questions asked by Peter, the First Pope. And while the world's media asked questions that tended to be more politically revealing than biblical, I thought, why not ask questions that we were asking the First Pope?

You know? So while these questions would not be suitable necessarily for a straight-on press conference, I think that the topics that these questions contain are appropriate as topics that relate to the role. of the pope and how we can pray for the pope as well. So I want to give you a few of the questions today, kind of as a precursor, maybe a little hint as to what might be coming in the future, but I sure am not going to tell you everything. And that's simply because we don't have all the time, right? So we're going to do that in just a moment. We're going to take a break when we come back. I'll give you some of the questions that I would have asked in the press

because these are questions that were asked of Peter or by Peter in the New Testament. You're listening to The Jeff Kaven Show. I'm Father Mark Mary Ames with the Franciscan friars with the renewal. My brothers and sisters at the service of becoming saints and falling in love with Jesus and Mary in the Most Holy Rosary, the team here at Ascension Press have put together the rosary in a year podcast. Each day, we're going to have a 10 to 15 minute episode where we're just going to work through the basics of the rosary. Who is Jesus? How do we encounter Jesus?

who is our lady, what does it mean for us to be in relationship to her? We're going to go through the Hail Mary, the Our Father, each of the different mysteries, and then we're going to bring in some saint writings on the mysteries and some sacred art that speaks on the mysteries and all of this to help enrich our prayer, to renew our prayer, to help us fall in love with Jesus and Mary and to fall in love with the rosary again. If you want to join us in this journey, you can begin by going to ascentpress.com forward slash rosary in a year to download the prayer plan.

and by listening and praying with us through the Rosary in a Year podcast. All right. Look forward to the journey with you. Welcome back. Okay, so we're starting with these questions. And the first question that I think, as relates to Peter, that really shed some light on the role of the papacy and perhaps some information about Pope Leo the 14th that we do know.

And that first question, it comes from Matthew 16, 15. Who do you say that I am? That's what Jesus said to the apostles. Who do you say that I am? So the first, and I would guess perhaps the most important question to ponder is, who do you say that I am? Now, in all the coverage preceding Pope Leo's election, I never once heard a news correspondent ask this question.

Not once. Perhaps they asked the question, thinking that the Pope would answer with his political views. Maybe that's the type of question that they asked, you know, of Pope Leo. and back then Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost. But we don't hear Jesus asking about Peter's political views. The question is related to the love and care of Jesus' flock. Who Peter says Jesus is will impact the flock because Jesus is not just another way to the father.

Now remember, when Jesus stood before Pontius Pilate, Pilate said to him, so you are a king. And Jesus answered, he says, well, you say that I am a king. And for this, I was born, and for this I have come into the world to bear witness to the truth. Now, part of the answer of who do you say that I am is pretty straightforward black and white. If you want to know if Jesus and who he is, and if you want to know if he is one of the many ways to get to the father, it's a good idea just simply to listen to him and what he says about himself. And what we find out when we look at the words of Jesus, we find out that Jesus doesn't merely say that he is simply one of the ways.

Or Jesus isn't merely one who knows truths, like a sage. And Jesus doesn't merely say that he has life and a lot of ideas about it. There's this one word that makes Jesus different. And he becomes different as you compare to all religions in the world. and that one word is T-H-E, the. Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Now, after hearing that, I think it would be very, very difficult to see Jesus as someone

who would say, I'm one of many ways. Now, the role of the Pope, the question is answered, who do you say that I am? Of course, Peter said, you are Christ, the son of the living God, and Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Now, we live in an age of such individualism these days. We really, really do, where everybody has their own truth. And I guess if that's what people are going to do, okay, but to demand that everybody else has to subject themselves to your truth, well, of course, that's ridiculous. And what we see here is that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. So Peter's answer would become the foundation of his ministry.

You are the Christ, the son of the living God. And so I know that Pope Leo, the 14th, that would be his answer as well. You are the Christ, the son of the living God. And so I think that we can, based on that, pray for Pope. Leo, the 14th, that everything he does will point to that fact, that everything he teaches will illuminate that fact that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. Now, another question that was interesting, I'm going to do some writing about this, and that comes from John chapter 18, verses 17, and then verses 25 through 27.

The question was, it was pointed at Peter, and of course, this happened after he was, after Jesus was arrested and brought to Caiaphas's house. Are you not also one of this man's disciples? Are you also not one of this man's disciples? Well, that's pretty powerful. Now, there's a truth, and that is that you will discover who a man really is when you see him under pressure. And the second question asked of Peter was begging for truth to emerge in the midst of tremendous social and political pressure on Peter. And Pope Leo the 14th will need your prayers and he will occupy the spotlight on the world stage and his words will emerge out of social and political pressure. And I have no doubt that he would say, of course, I'm one of the disciples of the Lord.

In fact, in some of the reading that I've done, I have seen that he's actually, the people when they talk about him say that he believes strongly in intentional discipleship or what I call activated discipleship. Well, Peter failed at answering this critical question, but do you know what happened? Peter fell short, yes, he did. But it was at the day of Pentecost that he became a new man. He became a new man. something about the day of Pentecost. And, you know, that reminds me so much of our Pentecost, our day of Pentecost and as Catholics is the sacrament of confirmation.

And that's when we receive power and courage and a sense of authenticity to not only be associated with him, but to become like him in the world. And Peter would live and die as the Lord did. And the fruit can be seen on the evening news as the world as a whole would be focusing on St. Peter's in Rome. And so, yeah, he originally denied that he was a disciple. In fact, he even kind of swore and said, I don't know the man. But then all of that changed.

How much are we like Peter? You know, in so many ways, I find myself a lot like Peter. And sometimes my confession is way over my skis. I make bold statements that I don't complete. And I think that that speaks of a lack of integrity. And I'm talking about myself that if I'm, I'm going to confess that I should do it. And that's what I believe we're going to be getting in Pope Leo the 14th.

So Pope Leo the 14th has a long record of being a disciple of Jesus. And I would encourage you to pray that his example will be the example that a generation observes. And they need to know what a disciple of Jesus looks like, acts like, talks like, responds like. And I think he's going to be doing that, particularly for our young people. Another question was Simon Peter said to the Lord, where are you going? And that was in John 13, in verse 36. Now, Peter asks Jesus that question during the Last Supper, to which Jesus responds,

where I am going you cannot follow for now, but you will follow later. And of course, we know what he's talking about there because in John chapter 21, it's revealed what Peter's end will be. and that is that he will be crucified upside down in Rome by his own choice because he did not feel worthy to die in the same way that his Lord did. So where are you going? Simon Peter said to him, where are you going? Well, from the last supper, Jesus went to the Garden of Gitsemone and he entered into his passion and he would go through the cross and he would experience. the resurrection and as a result of it the captives would be set free so where he was going at that point was the cross and the resurrection both of them so important you know i was uh just studying not too long ago this last week in fact i was studying first corinthians and i saw an unusual pattern there

where the letter to the corinthians is bookended by those two things it starts off with the scandal of the cross and then the scandal of the resurrection. And in the middle of those two bookends are all the problems of the Corinthians and Paul's solution. When we talk about this quote, Simon Peter said to him, Lord, where are you going? Well, he was going to embrace the cross and experience the life of the resurrection. And if we're going to see this world turned upside down, then we are going to have to go via the cross and the resurrection. That's how it is going to be done. Now, in many ways, Pope Leo the 14th enters into what Pope Benedict referred to as

recapitulative history. What do I mean by that? Well, what I mean by that is recapitulative history is when we follow Jesus as he fulfills all righteousness by completing the story of the Old Testament. Just as the Father sent Jesus, so Jesus sends us in the power of the sacrament of baptism and confirmation while being nurtured and strengthened by the Eucharist. So as Catholics, we are abundantly blessed with the sacraments of initiation, but I got to tell you that the sacraments are not the end of our relationship with the Lord. We must ask ourselves where he is going. In other words, what lies ahead?

And so that's no doubt something that Pope Leo the 14th is asking now, Lord, where does this church go? As he leads and he guides and he encounters difficulties in the world that the church must overcome. And so this really is a wonderful time to pray for the Holy Father about that topic of where are we going? what does the future hold but we do know that it goes via the cross and the resurrection and out into the world another question that was asked lord why can't i follow you now i'll lay my life down for you now real quickly here this this is something that i have found myself falling in this area and that is boasting about something but not following it with what i do and isn't it interesting that the first Pope Peter, he knew what to say and what the Lord required of him,

complete obedience. But his actions fell short, didn't they? And this is not a problem that is specific to Peter. This is a pattern that we all experience in varying degrees. And you could say that Peter literally got out over his skis with his mouth, which I have done from time to time. And so what we say and what we do must always come together. truth and love. And if we're to walk this way, it will require us to slow down, number one, number two, think, pray number three, and four, contemplate the will of God for our lives. So as Pope Leo the 14th predecessor, particularly St. Pope John Paul II, the Holy Pontiff, he provided us with a living icon, a living example of integrating what we believe with what we do.

And I'll be honest with you, I think that was part of the success of St. John Paul II when it came to the youth. You know, the youth can smell out insincerity, can't they? And when he lived his life in front of young people, well, they got it. They got it. And where Pope Leo, the 14th is headed, started minutes, just minutes or seconds after he was elected as the 260. 7th Pope. It was just shortly after that that Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost, then now going to become Pope Leo the 14th, was elected. He entered the Chapel of Tears, also called the room of weeping. And it's just to the left of the altar in the Sistine Chapel. And it is in that

small room, minutes after being elected, that the newly elected Pope dons the papal vestments for the first time. And the name, Chapel of Tears, is because it reflects the emotional weight and the moment, as many popes have shed tears upon realizing this tremendous responsibility of the papacy, it could very well be at that moment that the newly elected Pope, Pope Leo the 14th, realized with even more clarity that he must be willing to lay down his life for Christ and the church. What? What an amazing moment that must have been. You know, I'm reminded of what what Jesus said to Peter in John 21. I'm just reminded of this again when he said, truly, truly, I say to you, when you are young, Peter, you girded yourself and walked

where you would, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish to go. This he said to show by what death he was to glorify God. And after this, he said to him, follow me. So what does the future hold? You and I can be a part of praying for Pope Leo the 14th that God will use him to lead us to a place where our confession is integrated with our actions

and the enormity of what it means to lay down our lives in marriage or single life or religious life and that our life will become really a daily celebration of obedience to the king of kings and the Lord of Lords. After all, we die daily. Final question, and he asked this three times way up there on the Sea of Galilee, he asked Peter, do you love me three times? Do you love me?

So after Peter's initial call to follow Jesus, after three years of formation, after the boasting and the Garden of Gatsmeny, the Lord meets Peter on the northern shore, of the Sea of Galilee, and apparently Peter returned to fishing, or so he thought he would, at least, and it was on that northern shore at another charcoal fire, remember Caiaphas's house, that the Lord singled out Peter and asked the most intimate of questions, look at them in the eye, do you love me? Three times. Can you imagine this question being asked at a news conference about prospective popes? Do they love Jesus?

Well, I think that's a rhetorical question because I think that our cardinals would all say, yes, of course, I love Jesus with all of my heart. But that love of Christ will manifest in eternal fruit that will build up the body of Christ and feed and nurture the body of Christ and remind us that we're not alone. Now, if the church is going to be effective

in converting souls to Christ, love will have to be at the same. of our lives. And if love is going to be at the center of our life, that means Jesus. And love for Jesus will be at the center of our life. So when I read up now on Pope Leo the 14th, I really see a guy who loved Jesus even as a youngster. He loved him. And that love has been consistent all of these years, where he has not veered at all from loving Jesus, and he loves Jesus in the poor. Paul, Paul was a man of love, too. And I remember what he said to the Corinthians. You know, I was studying this just recently more and more, but the letter to the Corinthians starts

off with the scandal of the cross, it's foolishness to this world, and it ends with the resurrection of the body, something that the Greeks would not welcome. They believed in Somasima Esti, the bodies a tomb, and they don't want their body back after all this turmoil and life. And in the middle of that letter are the categories that Paul addresses as problems in this early church. But then in that chapter, chapter 13, he gives the solution to all of the problems, and that is love. That's why he says in 1st Corinthians 14.1, make love your aim.

You see, if you love Jesus and you bring that love to the world, you will overcome a lot of obstacles. You will. And so our church being effective in the world today is somewhat dependent upon our leader loving Jesus with all of us heart. And I'm convinced he does. I have no reason to ever doubt anything like that. Here's a man who loves the Lord. You know, Pope Leo the 14th, he didn't seek power or attention.

He was a follower of Jesus in the Augustinian way. He went to Peru to work among the poor and going to Peru and giving him. giving up everything to love Jesus is certainly not to most, to modern formula to become Pope, right? Many of us, you know, he was kind of discovered as he was out there like David. Remember that? It's like when David, remember when he was made King, King David? What was he doing?

He was tending the flocks. He was tending the flocks. And that's where God found him, tending the flocks. And that's exactly what Cardinal Privos was doing. and God snatched him up and said, you are going to lead the people today. Kind of reminds me of King David in a way. Just thinking about that.

I like it. Pope Leo the 14th has been busy loving Jesus by loving the poor and the disenfranchised, the marginalized in our world today and did not seem to be thinking about moving up in the church. Every time he was lifted up to a new position, he, by his own admission, was kind of surprised, you know. And that says something about the humility of his, of his heart.

So those are some questions. And I've got so much more to say, but I'm going to have to put that down in some writing. And part of that will be my contribution to this new book that's coming out that I highly recommend you get your copy now, get your name in there. And so you will get part of the first printing of that book. And I'll put the information in the show notes for you. Well, God bless you. This has just been a wonderful time of celebrating Pope Leo the 14th and thinking about all that God has in store for us.

I would ask you this, pray for him. Pray for him every day. And if you want, use these questions as a launching point to pray for him. Let's pray right now. Lord Jesus, we thank you for Pope Leo the 14th. We lift him up to you and we do ask you, O Lord. we ask you Lord to bless him we ask you to lead and guide him and to set the course for the church we thank you for protecting him physically emotionally spiritually in Jesus name amen

name of the father and the son and the holy spirit amen