The Jeff Cavins Show (Your Catholic Bible Study Podcast) - You Can’t Change the People You Want to Change!

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

We’ve all had family members and friends that we wish we could change, especially when we see them making decisions that clash with Catholic teaching, but you can’t force someone to follow rules (even if you know it would make them happier in the long run). Jeff offers some Scripture verses to help us better understand this concept and learn how to bring people to Christ first, so that they will choose to follow his commandments out of love, not just duty. Snippet from the Show “We can argue on topics all day long, but if we don’t know the basic proclamation of the gospel and bring Christ to people, we’re not going to see much change at all. The one who can change their heart is the one who doesn’t change.” 3 Ways to Get the Shownotes! * Find this episode at ascensionpress.com/thejeffcavinsshow * Text “jeffcavins” to 33-777 * Email us at [e-mail]

You're listening to the Jeff Kavan Show, episode 141. You can't change the people you want to change. Hey, I'm Jeff Kavans. How do you simplify your life? How do you study the Bible? All the way from motorcycle trips to raising kids, we're going to talk about the faith and life in general. It's the Jeff Kaven show.

And welcome to the show. you are frustrated, right? You have so many people in your life that you wish they just got it, either spiritually or politically or socially. You just wish they would get it, but they don't, and it's causing frustration, maybe even resentment. And some of the people that you're talking about may know the Lord and others may not know the Lord. Well, today we want to focus on those who might not have a relationship with the Lord right now. Maybe you've been talking to him. Maybe you sent him something on the internet. Maybe you bought a book for them. Maybe you've even gotten into an argument during the holidays. And you just didn't get anywhere. I understand that. And sometimes I

sit back and I think to myself, how come people don't get it? How come they don't get it? How come they won't change? How come they won't see what I see? So let's talk about that today. about seeing change in people's lives where we are frustrated and we just sense they don't get it, right? So, hey, I got an email from Cheryl in Sydney, Australia, and this is a lot of people write this type of thing. It's really beautiful, and I appreciate it, basically saying, you know, how the show has meant something to them and maybe the great adventure, love to go on a pilgrimage, and show notes. and Cheryl, you kind of encapsulate it all when you say thanks for the great podcast. I really enjoy listening to it. I did the great adventure Bible study in 2013 at my parish, and it was really the

start of a deeper love and appreciation for the scriptures. So thank you so much for that. I hope to join you on a pilgrimage in the Holy Land as well. Please subscribe me to your show notes, Cheryl from Sydney. Cheryl, thank you. I appreciate it. And you can get the subscription to the show notes, because I usually give out a lot of scripture in the shows, and you can simply write my name, the full name, Jeff Kavens, that's one word, Jeff Kavens, to 33777. That's about as easy as it gets, as far as texting, especially if you're a Christian, right? 3-3. Think of the Trinity, and then think of the covenant number seven, and do it three times. So it's 3377. And then you'll get the show notes forevermore. And the show notes, you know, I listen to

podcast myself, and sometimes I'll subscribe to get show notes. And I can't tell you how many times I just didn't get anything. But I'll tell you, on the show notes for this show, you get a lot of, you get a lot of scripture. And we want you to have everything that we're talking about. Because hopefully, if you're like me, you want the foundation and you want scripture, you want what the church has to teach on it, the saints quotes, all of it. And that's what we're going to provide on every single show. So you can't change the people that you want to change. You know, I hear so many people talking about this, and they talk about a number of different relationships that kind of frustrate them, because they say, I don't know what I have to do to get this person to see

the truth. And we'll talk about that a little bit, and what the problem really is. is and how we can go about it. And this is really inspired from the scripture reading, the gospel reading in Mass just two or three weeks ago. And it was the story in Luke 19 about Zacchaeus down in Jericho. And I was sitting in Mass listening to the gospel reading. And this is what the Lord spoke to me in my heart during Mass. And I remember after Mass immediately going out in the and writing down in my Moleskine notebook, the idea for this podcast, because I thought, I got to share this, I got to share this with you. So I do know that some people get angry and frustrated, and particularly with siblings. I hear a lot of people saying, well, my sister decided to

enter the gay lifestyle and a number of other, you know, another, she's an atheist, my brother's an atheist, major categories where we differ, but we struggle in explaining to someone what the difference is, you know, or maybe somebody that cheated you, or somebody you know is living a life that is just plain contrary to the gospel. Maybe their sexual life is an affront to you. Maybe they are for abortion. That is a big one today, isn't it? That's a big one. I'm saying that based on what I know to be true with emails that I received for the show and just out there in public discourse. Maybe they live with someone and refuse to honor marriage, and you've been talking to your sister, you need to get married, right? Maybe they allow their children to do

things that you know are harmful, like drink or smoke pot. Maybe they cheat on their taxes. They brag about it to you, and you're thinking, ah, and maybe they are deep into the New Age movement and they're focusing on their crystals and getting their chakra lined up and all of that. And you just think, what am I going to do? Well, have you tried to change them? Found it difficult? Oftentimes, the way that we argue makes it even worse. And the relationship even becomes more complicated as we turn this into a sparring match, you know, with one another. But I do think that there is another way to go about this. understand that not only can you not change them, but here's the important thing to remember before we get kind of deeper into this in the story of Zacchaeus. Understand that not only

can you not change them, but they can't change themselves, right? They can't even change themselves, yet we are frustrated that we can't change them. Now, sometimes people don't want to be changed, right? They might be in a lifestyle where they're saying, I think I'm doing okay. There might be other people that are alcoholic or addicted to drugs or something, and they know that their life is a mess. They know it. They've tried different things to straighten out their life, and they still won't listen to you. Again, if you can't change them, we know this. They can't change themselves. So we need to stop expecting change outside of a relationship with Christ. And this must become our focus. And the story of Zechias really, boy, that just drove it home for me, you know, a couple weeks ago in Mass. The best chance

that you have at seeing the change in their lives that you know is in line with God's will is to get them to hang around Jesus and later become one with Jesus. Because you know what? The problem that they're facing is not just a sociological problem. It's just not a mindset problem. It isn't just a philosophical difference that they have with you. The answer lies in the heart. It lies in the heart. Jeremiah 179, which will be in the show notes, says the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately corrupt. Who can understand it? And we also know from Mark's Gospel, that the heart is the root of all bad behavior. We know that, Mark, Chapter 7, verses 21, and 22, for from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, conceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness, all these evil things come from within, and they defile a man. So one thing that we have to really lay down here as a basis of understanding is that we're not going to see the change in other people's

lives if we don't understand that this is a heart issue. And you know, I just, I'm just not at that pay scale. I'm not at that level where I can go in and change the human heart, especially of people that I really don't know that well, but I do know that their life is crumbling or that their behavior is is injurious to their life. I don't have that skill. But I do know one thing. The Holy Spirit does. And I do know another thing, and that is that if people could be around Jesus 2,000 years ago and their life would radically change in short order from being around Jesus, I know that when it comes to all of the topics that I have to wrestle with with people, I just am not an expert on all these topics, but I do know one thing.

If Jesus becomes their life, he has a way of straightening out all of this, all of this. And this speaks to an issue that I think is critical in the Christian's life, in the Catholic life, and that is that we can argue all of these topics all we want. church subjects, worldly subjects, addictions, and social problems, political problems. We can do all of that. We can argue all of it. But if we don't know the basic proclamation of the gospel and bring Christ to people, we're not going to see much change at all. For you can put 500 people out there and let me with all kinds of of lifestyles that are different than the gospel and give me 10 years to argue with them all and you're not going to see big big results but i do know that if

the gospel is proclaimed and christ is heard and experienced in their life he has ways of straightening things out that would just absolutely amaze you amaze you so you see that the one who can change their heart is the one who doesn't change. Let me say that again. I think it's a beautiful thing. You see, the one who can change their heart, think about that person right now that you're thinking of, that you've been wrestling with. The one who can change their heart is the one who doesn't change, and that's Jesus Christ. Hebrews chapter 13, verses 8 and 9. You know, I haven't visited this text for a while and just recently jumped back in and was again reminded of just these good truths, you know, in the Word of God. Hebrews 13, 8, 9, Jesus Christ is the same

yesterday and today and forever. Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is well that the heart be strengthened by grace, not by foods which have not benefited their adherence. Isn't that beautiful? I like that. It's really interesting. In fact, he doesn't change that you won't be destroyed. Do you hear what it said in the text there? He said, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. It says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings. So it's the very fact that he doesn't change. That is juxtaposed with so you won't be destroyed. You will not be led away. I love that. I love that. It says in Malachi 3.6, this very thing, it says, for I the Lord, do not change. Therefore, you,

O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. Again, I would say, he doesn't change that you won't be consumed. You won't be destroyed. It's his unchangeableness that really brings something to the table here that allows those who need to be changed to experience that change. Now, jump into Luke 19. This is really, really good. Luke 19, 1 through 10, you got to know who Zechias is. Zakias is a tax collector. He is a scoundrel. He is a cheat. He is someone that most of the people see as a turncoat. He betrayed us. He makes money off of us for the Roman, you know, for the Roman Empire. Not a guy we want over for cards tomorrow night. Not a guy that we're going to bring over for a barbecue. Well, here's what it says. At that time, Jesus came to Jericho and intended to pass through the town.

Now, a man there named Zacchaeus, who was a chief tax collector, and also a wealthy man was seeking to see who Jesus was. But he could not see him because of the crowd, for he was short in stature. Now, pause there for a second. Interesting, isn't it? Here's the outcast. Here's the hated one, the betrayer, the cheat, the scoundrel. And Jesus has come to Jericho, and Zechias catches wind of this, and he's a tax collector. He's the guy that does all this stuff, and he catches wind, and he thinks, you know, I'd like to get a glimpse of this guy. I'd like to see who this Jesus is. Why? Because he has curiosity, too. And why? Because Christ himself wooes us and draws us to himself. So anyway, he wants to see him. But he's got a big

problem. There's too many people out there. And Zichias is short in stature. Maybe you remember that song growing up. Zichias was a wee little man. Wee little man was he. But he was short, so he couldn't get a glimpse. So you know what he did? He got clever. He was innovative. He ran ahead and he climbed. a sycamore tree in order to see Jesus. By the way, there's a new series coming out. Marcholino di Ambrosio and I have a new series on Jesus coming out, and Edward III is a part of it. And we did some of the taping right there at the huge sycamore tree in Jericho, where everybody remembers, of course, this teaching. Look for that at Ascension Press coming out. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore tree in order to see Jesus, who was about to pass that

way, and when he reached the place, Jesus looked up and said, Zechias, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house. Ooh, I bet that got some response. Here's Jesus, the superstar, coming to Jericho, and certainly there's all of the names that would attract a crowd and the powers that be and the powerful and the rich and the influential, and they may be there, and suddenly Jesus, looks up at the cheat and scoundrel and says, hey, Zakias, come down quickly. For today, I must

stay at your house. And some of the people at that point must have even thought to themselves, oh, give me a break. Obviously, he doesn't know who that guy is. That guy cheat me. That guy owes me. He owes me taxes that he got from me when I didn't need to pay him. I've seen him take from the poor. Seriously? I think Zakias needs to pay me back before he gets to be with this king of kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus. And so he came down quickly and received him with joy. And when all saw this, they began to grumble, saying, He has gone to stay at the house of a sinner.

But Zechias stood there and said to the Lord. Now, get this. This is after an encounter with Jesus. Zakias stood there and said to the Lord, behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor. and if I have extorted anything from anyone, I shall repay it four times over. Oh boy, it must have been some people saying, start with me, buddy, start with me. Let's go back, 10 years, all right?

Let's read that again. But Zekees stood there and said to the Lord, behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor. And if I have extorted anything from anyone, I shall repay it four times over. and Jesus said to him, today, salvation has come to this house. Because this man, too, is a descendant of Abraham, for the son of man has come to seek and to save what was lost. Oh, my friend, I wish I had 10 hours to go through this with you. It's so deep, so rich. You know, he said, here's Jesus. The crowds are complaining. He doesn't even know who he's eating with. And all sudden, Zakias comes up.

with this confession of, I'm going to give half of everything to the poor, I'm going to pay back four times what I cheated everybody. Do you see the influence and the impact that Jesus had on this man who no doubt many in Jericho had been arguing with and fighting with and debating with for years? In a moment with Jesus, he accomplishes what they probably would never have accomplished. And then Jesus said, today, salvation has come to this house, to Zakias' house, which is interesting because the word salvation means God saves, and so does Yeshua. Yeshua said, today, salvation has come to this house. Salvation is said, today salvation has come to this house.

And it's really interesting, and I don't have the time to go deep into it, but at the very end of this reading, here. In Luke 19, 1 through 10, Jesus says, for the son of man has come to seek and to save that which is lost. Well, that phrase right there is actually a very sophisticated way of teaching. In Hebrew, it's called Hekesh, H-E-K-E-S-H, Hecish. And it means to bang two texts together. And what Jesus is doing in front of people here is he is banging together Daniel 7, the son of man, who's going to receive a kingdom, and all authority will be given to this son of man, and he's coming to seek and to save that which is lost. That comes from Ezekiel 34, which the whole chapter, you can read it. In Ezekiel 34, 1 through 11, the whole chapter

is really railing on the leadership and the shepherds is doing a crummy job. And then finally God says in verse 11 of Ezekiel 34, I myself will come and seek and save the lost. So in one fell swoop, Jesus is saying, that not only a salvation come to this house, but I am the son of man. I have a kingdom that will never end, and all power has been given to me, and I, I, God, will come, and I will take care of the sheep myself. That's what he did with Zechius. That's what you and I fail to do, dare I say, can't do. Wow, the people must have been indignant, right? But now, not only are they being paid back, but Zacchaeus has become a new man, and Jesus is glorified. Do you want someone's behavior to change, sister, brother, colleague? You can ostracize or bring them to Jesus.

He is the answer. Whatever situation they're in, you stand a much better chance by bringing them to Christ, loving them, and letting the Holy Spirit do this. beautiful thing. And that's why we have such a need to learn the corigma, right? We have such a need to know the corigma. And if you look in my show notes, you will see several shows in the past where I talk about the corigma and the proclamation of the gospel and how powerful that really, really is. And so that corigma, in that corigma, what do we do? We tell people that God loves that. them and has an amazing plan for their life. We tell them that sin has royally screwed up this plan. That's the truth. And we tell them that the good news is that Jesus Christ has come to die for them. But God expects a response, repentance, a radical reorientation of our life to

God, and to be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and come fully in and live into the church and live this new life within the church. You see, that's the message that we have. And when we share that with people, the Holy Spirit confirms the message. I find many Catholics trying to bring about change in others by arguing politics. CNN versus Fox, share the message that brings change. If Jesus can change Zechias over one meal, then he can change the person in your life that you want to see change come to. Don't be surprised when someone needier than you gets the attention of God. The leadership you expected to deal with this can't. Aren't going to, but God will. We're going to take a break. When we come back, I want to give you three things to think about

in as far as really influencing that person you want to see change come to. So stay with me. Three things we're going to discuss. This is the Jeff Kaven show. What if you could go back and experience the very first Advent and walk alongside Joe Joseph and Mary as they prepare to welcome the baby Jesus. Rejoice Advent Meditations with Joseph is an all new Advent resource from Ascension. Experience that very first Advent journey through daily meditations in the Rejoice Journal and through a series of short, easy to access videos. Make Advent come alive this year.

Visit Rejoiceprogram.com. Rejoiceprogram.com. And welcome back. We're talking about the fact that you can't change the people. the people you want to change, but the one who doesn't change, Jesus Christ can. And this is setting us free in a way, isn't it? Sets us free to be open to change in their life without the expectation that I somehow have to bring it about, or I've got to get inside of their heart and force them to repent of their ways. So three things I mentioned to you, three things. Remember that you

need to balance, though. Before I say these three things, mention them. do what you can do with love, gentleness, and wisdom, but remember prayer. Remember prayer. But what I'm going to suggest here is not do, I'm not suggesting that you don't do anything practical, like give them a book, talk to them, be gentle and tell them the good news, buy a gift for them, take them to a talk, give them a CD. All of that is good, but do not make this a fight with them. It's a fight you're not going to win. You can only lose. It's not a fight you're going to win. something more is needed, and that is someone who will go into their heart and will change them. So, number one, share Christ with others and ask the Holy Spirit to penetrate their heart.

This is a real important point. Share Christ with others and ask the Holy Spirit to penetrate their heart. You see, the Holy Spirit is the only person who has the knowledge and ability and access. to the heart in question here, and that is your friend, your family member that you want to see change in. You tried, you can't. Holy Spirit can. Now, the Holy Spirit typically uses things that we do, you know, and we, with things we've said, like the corigma, or a book, or a greeting card even. The Holy Spirit can use a lot of these things, but primarily the corigma is the message. We need to share Christ with others and then ask the Holy Spirit to penetrate their heart. I'm reminded of what Jesus said in John 15. Without me, you can do nothing. Without me, you can do nothing. And so we from the

get-go, we have to acknowledge that the change that we want to see in that other person's life is not going to happen without Jesus. It's not going to happen without the Holy Spirit. This is not going to happen without God the Father. And so we have to share Christ with others and ask the Holy Spirit, please penetrate their heart. Do what you do. Number two, pray that the gospel will be proclaimed in the lives of those you know and need. Now, this is something that's really, really important. In Matthew chapter 9, verses 36 through 38, it says, when he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them because they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd. And then he said to his disciples, and I love this, the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Pray therefore the

lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. Now, how does this apply to what we're talking about today as far as changing other people's hearts? Well, what I have found is that is that many times God will use me to touch the heart of someone that somebody else is praying about. And that person's tried to talk to them, and they don't seem to be making progress, but for some reason, the person came into my life and my witness really did open up their heart for the Holy Spirit to change them. And so one of the things that we can pray for, and I know some of you have kids. You have adult. kids spread all over the country that have left the church. Some have not even returned to a

church. Some have left the church, and they're at a denomination. That's better than not being at anything, isn't it? But pray that the Lord of the Harvest, pray that the Lord of the Harvest would send out laborers into his harvest and touch your kids. Touch those who we want to see change, and we know God wants to see that change as well. Attack this situation. as if God was the only one who can change that person's heart. Ask God, send laborers out there who will work in harmony with you and the Holy Spirit. That means you need to pray like never before. Pray like never before. Change the focus of the arena from word fighting and political rancor to on your knees and begging the Lord of the Harvest to send out people to that relative.

that the hound of heaven, the Holy Spirit, would be unleashed on that person. And number three, pray the corigma. And I'll put a link in the show notes for you to purchase, actually, a corigma card. I have mine right here in just pulled it out of my well-worn Bible. And I have the corigma card from my newest book, The Activated Disciproven. and it gives all seven points. It even has tips on how to share the good news with other people. Pray the charygma.

You know, the charygma is something that we share with other people. God loves you and has an amazing plan for your life. Sin has disrupted the plan. But it's also a guideline for prayer. You could pray right now and say, like for example, your adult children who are gone, let's say their name is Peter. And you say, oh, God, I lift up Peter to you right now. and I'll pray according to the chrygma.

Lord, I pray that Peter will come to know your love and your amazing plan for him. I pray, Lord, that he will be aware of the sin and the brokenness in his own life and that his plan, his plan isn't working, and he needs yours. Lord, I pray that he will come to an understanding either through the witness of someone,

through prayer, through meeting a priest or a deacon, whatever it might be that, Lord, you have died for Peter. you've died to save him oh lord i pray that peter will reorient his life to you i pray that he will repent and be baptized and receive the holy spirit lord bring my son into the church bring my son into the church that one day he too would go out and make disciples you see i just made a prayer of all seven points of the corigma right there and you can do that you can do that with your relatives and friends and the people that you're arguing with right now. Doesn't it sound sometimes like that both of you just came from Fox and CNN?

I just came from Fox. He just came from CNN. We're talking. We're arguing. Oh, yeah, but we're not getting anywhere. So number three, pray the corigma. I'm going to put that link in the show notes. So if you want to buy it, I think actually for $10, you can get 10 of them.

And it's a real nice card. It's a big card. You can put it in the back of your Bible. Let me kind of bring this to a close, my friend. Let us not become weary in doing good. For at the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. I wish I had said that, but I'm going to have to give credit where credit is due. That's St. Paul, Galatians 6.9. Let us not become weary in doing good. Don't become weary. I know that's tempting. I know it. And that's why you stayed all the way to the end of this podcast,

because you do have people in your life that you want to see change in, and it's not happening. Don't grow weary. Please, do not. Don't grow weary in doing good, for at the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. And finally, one more scripture I want to share with you, 2. Peter 3.9, the Lord is not slow about his promises as some counts slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach rip.

Independence. Second Peter 3.9. It's interesting. I chose the name Peter earlier, isn't it? And there's 2nd Peter 3.9. So what are we saying here? God wants to see them change even more than you do. Agree with him. Ask him to send people into that person's life. Ask him to reach them in such a way where they'll give their life to him and become intimate, become one with him. And you know why? Because he can change hearts like Zacchaeus where you and I can't, right? Isn't this exciting to know that through the power of prayer and through the power of influence and sending people out into the harvest for your kids and for your colleagues and your friends and neighbors, isn't it exciting to know that the closer they get to Jesus, the more they're apt to change?

and that's what we want. So let me just end with this. To the degree that you want them to change, pray to that degree. And remember one other thing, somebody out there might be praying for those around you at work. You might be sitting in a cubicle next to someone who is lost. And there's a mother in Ohio praying for him. there is a sister in Arkansas praying for him and you just might be the answer to their prayer Lord send people into the vineyard send people out into the harvest and reach my son so again

I want to encourage you today you can't change the people you want to change but I do I know who can and I know how he does it and we need to get on board and do it his way let me pray for and just a quick note, and I'm not going to dwell on it, but go to my website, jeffcavens.com. All the information is there concerning the trips to Israel this January, and in June, the epic journey to the Holy Land with Father Mike Schmitz, Andrew and Sarah Swofford, Ali, Taylor Tripodi, brother Isaiah, and many more. It's a young adult trip to the Holy Land in June. The time for payment on that is coming up.

If you're serious about it, get on my own. website, jeffcavens.com, get signed up, get your deposit in, and be a part of this epic journey. It's called 2020 Vision, you know, really finding out what does God have for young adults in the Catholic Church today. Let me pray for you in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Oh, Lord, thank you for my friend who's listening with me right now. And we've been able to share this time together. I ask you, Lord, as we lift up those people in their life, that they know that you want to change them. And they've been frustrated that they haven't realized the change. Lord, we lift them up now, and we ask you, we ask you Lord of the harvest to send

people into their lives. Holy Spirit, we ask you like the hound of heaven to be unleashed upon our brother, sister, neighbor, colleague. And do in their heart, oh God, we beg what only you can do. and use the work of men and women around the world to touch them. For Lord, we know that if they can get close to you, they stand a much better chance of change than arguing with us. We pray this in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen. Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I want you to know, my friend, I love you, and I do pray for you. And I ask you to pray for me. And I want to hear the results of this. I want to hear from you. You can send me an email at The Jeffcaven Show at ascensionpress.com. I get them all. I read them, and I really look forward to hearing from you. God bless you.

Have a great week.