The Joe Budden Podcast - 'A Conversation with Nicki Minaj and Joe Budden'

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

For this interview, Joe is joined by a special Friend of the Show: the one and only Queen's finest, Nicki Minaj. The two would go over the earliest moments and catch up on the latest journeys in Nicki's career; from rapping with the best of them to creating her fashion line, it's not out of nowhere that Nicki has become the household name that she is. Nicki chops it up with Joe about her writing style, rollouts for her new projects, rap techniques, her outlook on where hip-hop is going and how the industry should be more adequately run, to embracing motherhood & more!

Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. How are you? I am well. I'm blessed. Highly favored? Highly favored, yes. I have so much to talk to you about. Where do I start?

Where do I start with you? I start with you at... Where I start often with you is our BT cipher right I focused there I think that was oh nine somewhere in that area this mean was you was while a was a few people there and word was around Nikki is in this cipher yeah word was around Nikki is in this cipher Yeah, word was around Nikki come and she spit she read you better. Hey your bars, right? It was all What was saying back then he sends his love of course, um

And then I had my little camera And I was filming we did some filming afterward. I handed you the cigarette. But when I watch it today, to see your evolution and to see my evolution with the Queen's roots and how it just all intermingles, it's like beautiful. And then I go to your Instagram and you post 08 Nicki and 2022 Nicki. Isn't that crazy?

Out of nowhere, I just happened to post that, yeah. But what does that Nicki say to that Nicki? I wish that then I would have appreciated more things. I wish I would have appreciated myself more, my look more, that raw talent that wasn't so jaded and tainted with the ridicule from other people. You know what I'm saying? Even that early? Well, that early, I was still in that good place where artists are, where we are, when we just start getting a little bit known and we're thinking, oh, I'm just about to do what

I love and make people happy. And then before all of the other stuff comes in, you know what I'm saying? For label stuff or, you know, and remember, social media was just beginning when I started. So I was like everybody. I was a lot of people's guinea pig. I was one of the first people to be shitted on on the Internet, on social media. Like non-fucking-stop. Every day I would go on.

And it was some new story, up story or a you know bad picture or you know it wasn't acceptable to have um surgery at all or anything even though and at that time I had never had surgery I had ass shots which till this day I realize even what I did and even with me not consulting with anyone to do something like that, how insane that was. Like, it's not that you go to a doctor, a professional person. No, it's some random person. Yeah, shorty in the Bronx. Comes in. I was in Atlanta at the time.

I was in Atlanta at the time. Queens. I was in Atlanta at the time. And actually what happened was I kept on being around Wayne and them. And at that time, you know, Wayne, he always talking about big booties and all. Wayne would have like a new chick in the studio every session. So it was always a new big booty. Creative support. That's what I like to call that. A new big booty there. A muse. Right.

Actually, yes. A muse. Actually, they were his muses. You like to look to the side and see something with some ass sitting there while you're trying to come up with a line. That's right. And yes, I want to make sure I don't downplay those women because they have a big part in the journey of a rapper's career. You know what I'm saying? Because when they are out there, they would give him that fuel.

You know, them smiling, them listening. You know, he would do stuff and then just see organically what they would respond to. All those things. So they were his museses but I just was around them all the time and I was like sister I was like the little sister with Wayne and Mac and all these boys you know J Mills and Goda and all of them and all I would hear them talking about is big butts and I didn't feel complete or good enough, good as those girls. Because I'm like, oh my God, you know, this is what you're supposed to look like in the rap culture.

And I don't look like that. And now. But that was you telling yourself that and not anyone else saying that to you. No, yeah. And they never told me that. Well, no. I'm lying. I think Wayne, and I think they said stuff sometimes jokingly.

Jokingly. But to a young girl or up and coming rapper or anything like that, when it's from someone like little Wayne it matters you know like so even if they're joking they don't know that the person that is there in that room with them is not finding it funny they they're thinking that and and all and this hat now now that I'm older, I understand, sometimes you'll say something in front of someone, and you're thinking that they know, they know that they're pretty, or they know

that they're smart, or they know that they're talented, or whatever, you're thinking that this is what this person thinks about themselves, you know, so you'll say certain things around them, this is what this person thinks about themselves you know so you'll say certain things around them or to them um but you but a lot of times you don't know how insecure a person is or what their insecurities are so when you say those say certain things if around women especially you can never take them back you know i'm saying so where they might have been playing with me probably thinking oh she's confident she's good in her own skin, da-da-da-da. They don't know probably that I always had that insecurity. So they're just joking.

They didn't mean any harm, but it wasn't a joke to me. I was laughing, but I didn't find it funny. And that was the experience then. I ask because today it almost seems like there is a female rapper starter kit. Thank you. That you have to have before you come in. Absolutely. I try to stay out of women's business, but.

It's rapper's business. And that's the thing. So what do you think about even the evolution of that? From it being a joking thing to Wayne saying it to you to now would be like I we can't even Don't matter that you could spit it. Don't matter that you look great. You feel great for us to back you You gotta You know what it is Joe, I don't think it's the men really anymore, especially I think it's the women I think it's the girls what their perception of of a female

rapper is and they think this is what i have to look like um you know like i remember i remember i remember i had i would never see any female rapper wearing pink hair pink hair became a part of that starter kit every female rapper will put on a pink wig at some point and i remember that was just the nikki minaj thing that's why when i said pink wig thick ass it was oh that's a iconic nikki minaj line because that's what she wears. Now it's everybody, pink wig, thick ass, right? Do you hold yourself accountable for any of it? Yes, yes. And I used to say, well, because I was one of the first people saying,

oh, I'm not these people's parents. But now I get it. I look at it from a different perspective now because superstars inadvertently become role models no matter what you can be the weirdest druggie in the world if they like your music they're listening to it over and over and over. It's programming. And they might try some of those things they hear you talk about. I remember I had a conversation with Future one time in the studio and he said something that I will never

forget. And he laughed while he said it. He was like, yeah, you know, people be thinking I do so many, like people be thinking I'm really doing a lot of drugs because I rap about it all the time. But they don't even be knowing I'm a lightweight. I said, er, in my head. Because there are a lot of people that are huge future fans, for instance. And that's how they're going to feel closer to him because they're doing what they're hearing him rap about.

Not knowing that he's not. He ain't on it like that. Not like that, no. So that's why it's important. But you can't fault an artist. See, that's the thing. Just because you say you are a role model doesn't mean you're telling someone you're bad. You can't fault an artist, see that's the thing. Just because you say you are a role model,

doesn't mean you're telling someone you're bad. Even though we are role models, it's like how can you tell a rapper you're bad because you rap about that? And you didn't clarify in your music what drugs or how much drugs or what, you know. It's art. And I wanna stress this because i know right now they're in court talking about how you know um their lyrics

right and their impact can we use them that's insane could you imagine if we held film directors accountable for all the fucking murders they put in their movies. And actors. And actors. Can you imagine? And the director of the movie. And who actually wrote that line right here in this? Because whoever wrote that. What? Okay.

I'll offer some pushback. Okay. If Bruce Willis goes and kills 50 people in a movie, no one says a word. and kills 50 people in a movie, no one says a word. The second that he does it in real life, we might have to go back and look at that movie and make it applicable in court, no? But we wouldn't. We wouldn't. Rap is the only genre of music, first of all, in my opinion.

Rap is the only culture that from the beginning of time has been vilified. Like, from the beginning of time has been vilified like from the very beginning we have been treated like the bad guy we have well we were the stepchild since inception yeah yeah so they've been blaming us for stuff forever since the beginning so it's not like it's not like they do that to actors it would be different if y'all always pointed a finger at actors. And then Bruce Willis does something, you know. And then we say, oh, see what he was doing in his movie?

No. Bruce Willis doesn't wear a target on his back every day as an actor. No. No. Rappers do. They look at us where we're from. We can't help where we're from. We can't help that.

We are from the hood and we didn't have anything. And we had to do certain things to get money. We can't help where we're from we can't help that we are from the hood and we and we didn't have anything and we had to do certain things to get money we can't help that i'm sure bruce willis probably didn't have to do those things so he's looked at as more as a a law-abiding citizen so we won't even our minds won't even go there if if he was to go to a court for something like that they wouldn't even bring up his movies because he gets gets to go be Bruce Willis when he goes home, and you don't get to go be Onika. Right. I understand.

Right. We're held to a different level of judgment. We just, from the beginning of time, we always have been. So I don't think they would ever bring up any movies, especially that white actors do. Now, maybe a 50 cent show or movie maybe they would do it to them i think it's just about the culture i think it's just about the our culture i think even if it was a black movie sometimes they would do the same thing i just don't think

um any culture that's predominantly white ever deals with that are you aware Eric Adams, the New York mayor? Oh, about drill music? Yeah. He said his son let him hear something and said, hey, this is dangerous shit. And then he went on the news and said this needs to be abolished or something of the sort. And then all the drill rappers responded. But yeah, Eric Adams thinks that drill music is a threat and it's the reason that New York City crime is increased shame on him and shouldn't somebody else educate him outside of his child and shouldn't he spend more time on educating himself than just speaking about it the very next day. Well, I think that and what you just said, if we even just start looking at that,

why is he doing that? The reason why he's probably doing that is to point the finger. Oh, hey, if anybody ever looks at my record as, you know, mayor and whatever, it's this drill music. That's what it is. Let's get this out of here. What? Well, drill music wasn't around in the 80s.

When everything was, why they had to do the Just Say No campaign and all this stuff, when it was all this drugs and murder, rape, crazy skyrocketing. Was drill music there, Mr. Adams? No. What the fuck are you talking about?

Yeah, I think they blame rap music in the 80s too though. Oh my God. But they didn't blame rock stars, rock and roll. Rock and roll has been at the front of doing, you know, partying for a very long time. Drugs, sex drugs and rock and roll, right? Synonymous. But when you see one of these white rock stars, our minds don't go on crime and drugs and all this bad stuff.

Why? It's a different image. It's different treatment. Like, I was about to ask you about just longevity and rap as a woman, but when you think of rock and rollers and you think longevity is, what, 50, 60 years? That's right. You've been around how long now?

Well, I guess since, oh, technically 2007. Technically 2007. Do you feel the weight of being tasked with adding to what longevity as a woman in hip-hop looks like today. Of course. Because you're basically like the, I don't want to say the blueprint, but that's where we are now. We had Kim who had a run. We had Foxy who had a run.

Lauren had a run. Missy had a run. Today, though, you just kind of get to run and create and do as you please it's a different era it's a different time yeah is there pressure it comes with it because in the very beginning of my career I would always say in interviews that I don't feel that female rappers were given their just due on in terms of on a long-term spectrum like in my opinion how they you know in my opinion the female rappers before me i would always say they should have retired as moguls

right like big huge moguls and i would say why isn't there a female version of jay-z who at that time even when i was coming in we could see that he was on mogul's that, you know what I'm saying? So I was like, I'm going to be that person. I'm going to do that. And even what I've done, I haven't done. I haven't done what I want to do, what I need to do, what I will do yet. I know it because I'm talking about full out mogul.

But did they have the opportunities? Did they have the opportunities? Did they have the same opportunities? That's like so many rappers at that time, some of the biggest rappers, some of the most influential rappers, they've never made a million dollars for a show.

They've never made what they absolutely deserve based on the doors that they opened for others, based on their level of talent, their level of influence. They've never been rewarded for doing any of those things. And now they get to sit back and watch other artists who they know is not as talented as them, but just because of where we are with everything with you know, whether it's social media or

Rap being just the number one genre of music or whatever in the world They have to now say but I know that can't be easy for them to watch Because now they have to watch that they can't send their grandchild for instance to college whereas with all of the jewels that they gave to the culture they should have been able to send a grand kids grandkids to college based on what they put into the to this that this thing but they but they didn't get that so yes it's always been my goal to show you give everything away you give it away you give it up you know like can't go and see your your parents all the time you can't go and

um there's so many things you just give up you might not thanksgiving christmas you know what i mean why everybody is enjoying their family and stuff like that. And then one day you wake up and years have gone by and people start to die. And then you look back and think to yourself, was it worth it? Missing the moment. Missing all these moments that you'll never get back. Like I remember one of the most devastating things in my life was missing my little brother was graduating from elementary school.

And I just remember screaming, screaming, screaming, screaming at my mother. I can't believe you didn't tell me, you know, that he was graduating. And she basically was like, oh, I didn't think it was gonna be, it was a big deal to you. And I'm like, what do you mean?

Like, yes, that's a big deal to me. That was a big thing. And for him to look out in that audience and not see his big sister, I was like, I remember I was in Europe at the time. And I told her I would have rearranged and rerouted my whole tour to make sure I was there to see him graduate. But little by little, even your family, even your loved ones they start thinking oh i'm not gonna bother him with this i'm not gonna bother her with that yeah instead of realizing no those are the things i need things are important to me yes i don't you know it's it's important for you as a human being yo as for your spirit your soul and an artist, if you're not experiencing real life and real love

and real heartfelt emotions, what are you writing about? And that's why everybody now is just writing about, you know. Nothing. Thank you. Absolutely. A bunch of nothing because when you first, that's why people always go back to like when an artist first came in because we always have that hunger.

The most to say. That pain. That this, that this. Because we're in it. We're in it. We're in the moment. I have to remind myself now all the time. Stay in the moment.

Get back in the moment. You just left the moment. Come back to the moment. Because I'm always. Go ahead. Yeah. Like thinking about what's tomorrow. What's next week, what's this, what's that. And there are magical things happening that I'm not experiencing.

I'm there physically, but I'm not experiencing it because I'm not there. How much time do you spend alone? Well. And that's got to be tough at this level. and that's gotta be tough at this level. I actually spent a lot of time alone. I love being alone, actually. I'm one of those people that I used to just love getting off the tour just so I could just

be in my bedroom alone and watch TV and do whatever I wanted to do and just, you know? I've never been one of those people that needs to go out to the club and stuff like that or be around other people. But, but I think it is important, you know, for me to try and do it. But to be honest, a lot. I mean, obviously my husband and my son, you know, are always there, you know, but I would say I spend a good amount of time in my own world, in my own little space. Good. Okay.

You mentioned earlier mogul. And that should be important at this juncture. What do you feel needs to be done or added for you to hit that vision, your vision of mogul? Well, all of my beauty, all of my beauty deals, you know? Tell me about beauty deals. I don't know. All of, just the makeup and hair and clothes and sneakers and da-da-da-da, you know. So you have all of those things happening.

I do. I do. I have them happening. But there have been things that I've put on hold in the last maybe year or two because obviously you never want to negotiate anything when you're not at your best in terms of what you're putting out into the world. Like, if you're a basketball player, you don't want to negotiate a deal when you've just had, you know, when you haven't played, when you haven't been a starter, you know, for

a long time. But you do want to negotiate that deal when you've just been, you know know a starter in every life MVP in every last game and you know you've been putting up you know 40 points a game you know I'm saying you do want to negotiate your deals then because you know you're gonna get what you're worth yeah so I hadn't been putting out music right so but the last music you put out was received well well Well, no, because there was a lot of... What's the word? Remember with the Queen album, there was a lot of bullshit going on,

and I don't think that it was presented correctly you know not and it's not received well but not presented correctly right um yeah and I don't think mentally I was in the right place you know even like with the with what I did afterwards like once that body work was out i don't think that i even presented myself correctly you know in in terms of what i was saying and how i was saying it dark time did you have to present something at that time no i don't even think i should have put out an album at that time i don't think that I was ready to put the album out. But it was something really stupid now that I think about it. I think it was like the VMAs were coming up and then also one of my label mates was about to drop and I wanted to make sure that she and I had our own week, each our own week, I think, and also be in time for

the VMAs. It was something like that was going on. And that's stupid. You never, you never base your art around an award show, around a photo, like around that. No, your art is your art. All that stuff can wait. Because when the art is great, all that stuff comes. because when the art is great all that stuff comes you don't need to chase it you don't need to figure it figure that out it figures itself out you know so I don't even think the album should have been put out at that time when it was in my opinion so like every artist you decide to go away and get it get it right cuz last project was about what, four years ago?

Right. Well, I was about to. I would have been putting something out after that. But, you know, I got pregnant. So once I got pregnant, everything had to fall back because I don't want to be shooting videos pregnant. And I didn't even feel like recording and saying certain things pregnant. And then as well it just so happened that the two huge things happened

at the same time and I can't tell you what it feels like to be pregnant during COVID you know just to even go to your doctor's appointments it was so so, so hectic to just, you know, go in. You know, everybody has to be masked. And it's scary because you don't know. You might, you know, you just don't know, especially your first child. You're feeling like, oh, my God, what if I do something and, you know, you just don't know what the hell you're doing. A lot of precaution.

You know, yeah, and it's a weight. You know, it's a heavy weight on your shoulder because of it. So I had to do that. I had to have the baby and then COVID. And then once I had the baby, you know, as a woman, you have to get back in shape and start, you know, just getting also, but also. That's so unfair for y'all, yo.

Why is there like this window that y'all have to get back in shape, look the greatest, and be right back out? Like, why y'all can't just chill? I guess you can. I mean, so many women do. But there's a pressure. There's a price you pay for taking too much time chilling, right? So you don't want to do that.

But also, you know, I also wanted to bond with my child. Like, I see sometimes, you know, some people pop the the baby out and I couldn't. I wanted to bond with my son. I didn't want to just have nannies. He still doesn't have a nanny. For real? He still has never had a nanny. Never. But it's very hectic, time consuming because

I did I hired four nannies. They just didn't work out. So I'm just trying to get someone that I really love. So you tried the nanny thing. Oh yes. And wasn't compatible. So far, but obviously we do have to get them

acclimated with someone because. Yeah, because you're gonna have to show up places on time at some point. And I have to travel outside the country. I have to do a bunch of stuff. I have to tour, can't tour and you know, be taking care of the baby and doing all that stuff and you know being on stage every night so so this is like a roller coaster now you come off

the album there's colvid there's pregnancy there's a baby this i got to get back into nikki mode now that now you got to kind of relearn yourself. Yeah, because I also went through writer's block. Severe writer's block. After the baby? During the pregnancy. You was writing a bunch of wack shit? Huh? You was writing wack shit?

Yeah, oh yeah. Well, I wasn't even writing anything. I was trying and I wouldn't have no ideas. I think I was too worried about the baby. I was just online Googling and YouTubing pregnant women all day. Like, oh, what did they do? How did they do? And it was so many women because what they do is,

just not celebrities, regular women, they document their journey and it makes it so easy so that those questions that you might have these women are telling you you know how what happens and answering questions what to take to the you know when when you go to the hospital and how it's going to be raising a newborn and how much you know sleep just a bunch of stuff so i was consumed with that because hello i'm about to have a baby I'm all the way in California I don't have a bunch of family around me what am I gonna need to do well I wasn't thinking about no damn writing some hot raps yeah naturally so you know how long did it take you to

get acclimated or get out of writer's block well I came out of writer's block with seeing green literally yes okay so um and that and how that happened was I texted Drake one time and I was like you know what I want to put out um oh I was like the label wants to put out Beam Me Up Scotty and I was like I can't put out a mixtape and not give them something new right I was like yo what's hot outside out right now that you think i should jump on and instead of him telling me he texted me back and said jump on this and i listened to the song and i'm so out of it i was like oh this is out already y'all put this out because him and wayne was already on it. And he was like, no. You know, I was like, oh, my God.

So I kept on trying to write to it. I couldn't think of anything. I mean, everything I was saying was just so stupid and bad. And those are the two last niggas you want to be whack with. Exactly. Nobody knows what type of pressure that was. I sent Drake, like, six different verses. Yo, but you know what's funny

about you like from the outside looking in of course like you invite that pressure I know from from the niggas that spit right even now like not one little baby song it's two little baby songs and he on there going crazy you listen and thinking you know she's back at it again. Just pairing herself with the niggas that's. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So you like that pressure.

Oh, I need that pressure. I have to have a sparring partner. Like, how do people get great? I mean, I don't want to. But you always put yourself just in the category of the niggas. Like you make it a point to say, yeah, don't just put me with them. Oh, yeah. Like put me with them.

Well, it's because that's what I fell in love with about rap. I fell in love with, and everybody falls in love with different things. I fell in love with who spit the hottest rap, who spit the hottest verse on this song. I mean, that's just how I always been. So I gravitated to Foxy Brown because I felt like she used to spit like a dude. Oh my God. Rob Markman, Love Foxy. Yeah, like she, her precision was just like, even to this day, I think her precision and the way she pronounces everything

and her clarity is just unmatched. And that's what I wanted to be like. You know, I was never thinking about what everybody probably thinks I was thinking about. I was thinking about, you know, Biggie and Jay-Z and these types of people who had the better verse on this and who had the better verse on that. That's always what intrigued me.

So now when people kind of, and I think at one point, people tried to bully me out of that mindset. Like, you know, so that the bar could be lowered for women. You know, why does it have to be about dope raps? You're a rapper. Who cares about if the rap is dope? Can you imagine telling Michael Jordan basketball shouldn't be about how many baskets,

how many times you hit from the free throw line, how many three-point shots you made, how many rebounds, how many many can you imagine telling Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali it shouldn't be about your technique no no one would ever ever say that to to to these people these are people the greats in sports but as soon as it comes to rap and female rap they wanted me to start lowering the bar and starting to say yeah it doesn't matter get your maps written be have a bad versus have not thought out versus that like say anything who cares it's just music.

But to me, that's not what it is. And now if that's what it is to you, you have every right to do that. But if it's not that to me, why should I, why should I say it is? You don't have to. And I didn't, and I don't. It's probably safer to, to put yourself in the box with the niggas because if you start rapping like the aggressive raps to women or cater to women, the media people just think that it's smoke when it's just aggressive rap. Oh, they always do that to me. They've been doing that to me since the beginning. No, but we stopped doing that now. Oh, yeah, okay.

No, no, we stopped now. Okay. There's a concentrated, I think, effort for the girlies to play nice with each other. I can see it. Right. Either play nice with each other or respect everyone's space. Right. So I'm not

going to be the media nigga to put something in that, but I like that. Do you notice it? Are you cognizant of it? Yes, of course. Of course. It's been... But it? Yes, of course. Of course. It's been... But it didn't start. Stop.

It didn't start from there. It didn't come from a good place. It came from the place of... Well... Yeah, it's great. Let's move on. Yeah, wherever it came from, who cares? It's great.

Yeah, it's great. And that was on display with that whole City girls thing that we learned over the internet however it was birthed like that was more just leadership in that direction like we don't need to mess that's right back to how you fell off of your last project just about how it was handled that probably makes more sense for me as to why it seemed like every T is crossed and every I is dotted with your presentation this time you haven't missed a beat for me I'm talking about in terms of when the record dropped you had the Hawks game same night oh yeah there are people that you have sat with from this side of the spectrum to late night oh yeah it's a little baby being on both of the records

to the video being that type of movie for For me, it is mad effort into presentation here. For sure. And it's not even the album rollout. It's just my rap song rollout. It's not even like a crossover record or anything like that. Yes. So you're right. Even that, right?

Like normally when we hear, okay, Nicki Minaj is dropping two records. One of them is going to be the little puppy smashy single. And then one is going to be for the heads. Right. But this time they both was kind of joints. Rap, rap. Yeah. Because I have stayed away so long that I have to now, I feel,

overdo my core. But here's the other thing, if I'm being honest. Any time a sound works, people just forget everything about who they are and jump on that sound. Oh, my God. Yeah, you did you on that record yeah because right now there's a particular kind of record that every female rapper is trying to do well not every, a lot. And I got some songs that I thought, some hooks that felt like that, and I thought, I can't do that.

Last album, I did the same thing with Chun-Li, because it was like, okay, everybody's trying to do, or not trying, but doing the trap thing. I purposely brought a studio to new york i mean to l.a and said i just want you to give me new york sound and that's it don't give me nothing that sounds like trap that's why we have chunley and bobby tings just to just you know because everybody's doing that now if i come out if i were to come out with a crossover um record right now that sounds like what everybody is doing with you know I wouldn't feel good about myself so in my opinion I have to do me shout out to my core just the rap fans I have to give them what I think they've been missing. I also wasn't going

to come out with a very explicit song, because I feel like that's what everyone's doing. Everybody seems to be doing something extremely explicit, or a kind of a hook that sounds like... Because once anybody has success success with anything it seems like everybody just jumps on that sound even if they may not have even liked it it might be people behind them telling them to do it once you do that and once you do it a couple times who who then are you we've now forgotten who you are we've now forgotten who you are and so I don't think people realize that. If you jump on it, every trend, you become faceless. It's like... This is a deep point.

Yeah, it's important. It's important people know this. Yes, I know you want the biggest radio smash. So somebody in your camp told you, well, you got to do this because she just won with that so make your you gotta have a hook that sound like that okay now when they talk about female rappers eventually your identity goes away so now when they bring up female rappers you will never have a standing chance at longevity,

really, you know, a name that's really gonna stand the test of time. We all do it as artists, but sometimes I feel some people do it with everything. It's always, okay, well, what's happening now? Let me jump, just, you know, and you have to be careful because yes, it might give you the biggest smash song for that moment,

but afterwards you'll realize you don't have an identity really. But nobody is ever here to tell them about what happens afterward, right, and what happens when you're just trying to find yourself, but you never do. Like some people are not in it for back-end money or making sure their kids are all right. Some people just want the quick notoriety, the quick record, and I'm done with this. Give me my quick pub check and I'm out. Got it.

Everybody's not passionate, right, about this. Okay. You're right. You're right. I guess you're right. this how do you avoid that type of complacency at this juncture in your career how do you how do you go about creating and rolling out differently just challenging you fuck what the label is saying what the fans are saying how do you just avoid boredom with create uh creating i don't know i just think it comes from me being very hard on

myself naturally you know like i'm telling you i have songs right now that if i was to put it out they would check all those by all the all the boxes that people probably think I want to have checked. But I can't live with myself. What people want, a lot of people want, and what I want, I guess, are different. I want to be able to have integrity. I want to be able to, when I go home at night, look at myself and be like solid individual right here period I don't give a shit like I don't mind if someone says oh she's a bitch or she's this she's that but I'm a solid human being solid person so as an artist I hold my I hold myself to that same standard.

I can't just blow whichever way the wind blows that day, you know what I'm saying? In order to be, in order to chart, or in order to sell, or in order to chart or in order to sell or in order to whatever. I fell back for years because I don't need to be in the rat race of whatever it is that people are doing. You know what I'm saying? Like, people think that right now the rap race about number ones or this, you know, on Billboard Hot 100 is the only thing they should be caring about. When I said this, but I don't think this came out yet. I think I talked about this in my documentary.

But in the history of rap, you've never and will never hear anybody disputing who is the best MC. You know how we have those MC talks? You'll never in the history of rap hear somebody say, oh, you know what's the tiebreaker? Who had the most number ones? No. Who had the most number ones between Jay-Z, Biggie, and Nas? Who had the most Grammys between Jay-Z, Biggie Knox? You'll never, ever in life hear any hip-hop head say, well, the tiebreaker for me to decide who is the illest rapper,

let's ask that. No. So I think a lot of people got into it, like thinking that that's what mattered, and now they're realizing that doesn't matter. Because if that was the case, I would have been long gone being discussed but you see that that's not what people care about in rap in the culture we care about

technique and it's not always supposed to be metaphors and all that some people that i love don't spit metaphors and that's not their style and that's fine. I think that's the other thing. I think people think that I only look at certain kinds of rappers as dope. No. It's a lot of rappers that don't rap like that. But you could still see they're passionate about what they do and how they do it and that it's authentic to who they are and they're not switching it up every second just because of something, know is hot this season so that's a different level of respect that you have for those people I agree speaking of respect I saw you say that you would do it versus with one or two

people we all got to guessing I already who one of those people would and should be. My guess would be Kim. The other one, I had no idea. I was stumped a little bit. I thought that maybe you put that there just to stump niggas. Who else would this be outside of Kim, Missy? I don't think, respectfully, I don't think Foxy. I don't think that's there.

It's just Kim and Missy. And maybe Lauren. But I don't even seey, I don't think that's there. It's just Kim and Missy. And maybe Lauren, but I don't even see that. I don't see it stylistically. I haven't said anyone's name. Only me. Yeah, no, no, I'm saying the names. I'm not saying anybody's name. But that's something that you would seriously be open to?

I feel like you just want to get up there and slaughter somebody with a bunch of hits and features. No, because I approach those things as a rap fan, not as Nicki Minaj. Okay. Just as a rap fan. And I think that there are a lot of, not a lot of, but I'm just saying, it's just about if somebody can play their joints and have people reminisce and go crazy and that you know so yes there are oh you and

kim gotta do it man because now that i'm listening to what you're saying to reminisce go crazy you know that's gotta happen it's gotta happen um a few minutes ago you said you were starting something else It sounded really big which brings me back to my mogul shit documentary. Oh Yeah, documentary. Oh god. I don't know. There's a you said it But when it's ready, I'll let you know My fans then then start making up things in their own head and saying supposed to be out this time so it'll be out when it's ready that's what i'm going to start just saying it'll be out when it's ready and i'm not i'm not going to talk about anything else i'm not

doing that anymore i'm not putting anything out in the world because it's a lot of people that just yeah okay so can you tell me more about the management company then oh okay well i just want to hear about your thought your thoughts and your visions for you and your brand in the next five years. I feel like you've done it already in music. I almost feel like to talk to you about music, unless I'm talking about what you've learned and what you've experienced, is almost asinine. For me, you're like a legacy act now.

You have to be mentioned there and we could talk about what you did and anything you do moving forward don't really change that part for me but when I see the women's right when I see like Riri and Fenty when I see fucking Kim and the Fendi skins when I see fucking well cash doll act and Davies act, just niggas doing different things. And I come to one of the biggest brands that we have. You intrigue me when I hear about the different ways that your mind is working. Like I wouldn't think management is a passion for you.

But when you started talking about it, it sounded like it. Well, no. Okay. Well, no. What I'm saying is I'm creating my own management company to manage me and then along the way I'm sure that we will be able to manage others so I'm playing the key players together around myself because there are people in my life currently who I think you know are

really do up with what they do and now it's just a couple other seats I think that are open and I want to create my own not want to I am creating my own management company as opposed to going to Samadhi and having them sign

or you know as opposed to having someone manage me and then getting a percentage of everything that I've built for all these years or, you know, as opposed to having someone manage me and then getting a percentage of everything that I've built for all these years. No. I'm going to create my own management company and, you know, have different divisions of that management company there. And I think it'll probably just be a lot easier for me. I'm also doing my record company. I have a couple artists that I will start the record company with,

but those things will probably be, I'll probably speak on that or announce it closer to you know album time um i took queen radio to another company um so that was my next question yeah so we'll start they'll probably put out their press release in a couple weeks um yes i am working on working with a director right now uh regarding a movie can't wait to tell everybody about that i'm really excited about that on working with a director right now regarding a movie. Can't wait to tell everybody about that. I'm really excited about that. It's a bigger role than I've ever taken on. And it's a more in-depth role than I've ever taken on.

And, you know, it's, I mean, it's time, right? Like, can't just be doing those surface roles. So, in addition though every time i would put something on um on instagram it would sell out especially when i first just came back right everything would sell out people's stocks would go up etc etc but Stocks will go up, et cetera, et cetera. But, I, right now, have a couple, couple companies on the table to do things with. And when I launch them, you guys will know.

But obviously, makeup and hair is my passion. And, you know, clothes and sneakers is my passion. When I did my Fendi line, I went to Italy and spoke to Sylvia and the company and she showed me the grid of how their clothes went up once my line came out, right? And she said, prior to my clothing line coming out, they were not doing really well with the clothes

that had the actual Fendi prints on, that everybody wanted to get away from the Fendi print. And I wanted to run to the Fendi print. And Chun-Li said Fendi prints on, and that changed everything. Once Chun-Li came out, I didn't have a Fendi deal yet. Once Chun-Li came out and I said Fendi prints on and that changed everything. Once Chun-Li came out, I didn't have a Fendi deal yet. Once Chun-Li came out and I said Fendi prints on, all the girls started posting and saying Fendi prints on.

So Fendi, you know, gave me a deal, right? All of the stuff flew off the shelves, right? I told Kanye about that. I was like, hey, look, you know, I'm about to do something, and I just wanted to make sure I spoke to you first, you know, because I have so much respect for

him, and he was like, well, if I did something with you, I don't think, you know, I think my wife, it wasn't during this time, it was a while ago. He was like, my wife probably wouldn't love that idea because I would have, I should be giving that to my wife instead, you know. If I was doing like a female version of Yeezys or whatever, it probably should go to my wife. And I understood, that's how you're're gonna tell somebody about their husband or wife yeah so i said okay but i wanted to come to him first because i know what what i i know my influence um but at the same time we have to be careful we have to be careful when we say things like so kanye was very vocal about the fashion industry not letting him in at one time.

So if a black female rapper who you know has just shown herself to be sellable in that space, and this is not from Joe Schmo down the block, it's from Fendi saying all of these things flew off the shelf then when I come to you as a black man that I look up to I'm doing that because you inspired me because you said the fashion industry didn't want to let us

in even though we're so influential and then when I did ask, just put it on his radar he said his you know what he thought how he thought his wife would feel about it and we didn't really speak much more about it you know now I'm not saying that she said that she wasn't there so I want to make it make it clear but that's what he thought that how she would feel about it and so it is what it is but we

have to be careful like that when we put those things out there and when a door is open that we do you know figure out a way to have another black face there you know i'm saying in that space because what's what's the point if not you know that's why it takes us so long to get into so many things even though we are the most influential people on the planet well that's why me asking you about Queen radio was so important to me because yeah you're great at it but the symbolism and what it means for Nicki Minaj to be in media and dedicated and consistent in this area it says something says something to the women looking up trying to do this thing same thing the young black men are saying

about the Brian Flores black head are saying about the brian flores uh black head coaching situation in the nfl like you need that representation the same representation you talk about in fashion like it's important yeah especially with your relationship with fashion it just seems it just seems like this it just seems like it's one and one makes two yeah um remember what i told you about when we first started talking i said the thing about pink wig dick ass right and everybody knew me for wearing the pink um wigs right um you would think that right now hip-hop is the most is the biggest most influential genre genre in the world right you would think the biggest female rapper of all time you would

think the biggest female rapper of all time who you would think the biggest female rapper of all time who has set so many trends would have been on the cover of American Vogue. But she hasn't. Now, listen to this. When Billie Eilish comes out and she sets a trend with her green hair, she's immediately put on American Vogue.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But when a black female rapper who has been setting the trend for 10 years does it no one says anything a big part of the reason why we're not represented is because we need we have to you know what I think we're doing

now I think we're all speaking up for each other so I think now you've now I think we're all speaking up for each other so I think now you've made it so we've all made it so no people have to pay attention to what they're doing how they're treating uh black artists and black people and there has to be representation etc etc I remember I would be um like I would do magazine covers right and they would always ask me not to wear pink hair but I would see Katy Perry on a cover with pink hair and I would see Lady Gaga on the cover with pink hair I came in the game wearing pink hair and Chinese bangs, but whenever it was time to be represented on certain covers or in fashion, it was, no, no, we need you stripped down. No, no, down, down, down.

But I've been a trendsetter so I was talking to um soldier boy the other day I said you know what's funny fellow trendsetter yes I said you know what's funny we as a community we all say when we love you and we laugh when you say that you started something and you have your receipts to prove it or whatever i was like but if i say that i am immediately shunned and you know it immediately for some reason is a bad thing for you for a black woman to say i started that trend it's up for some reason and it's other black women sometimes doing it to we we and i want to make sure i say we sometimes we do that to each other and we're not realizing that no white person ain't gonna go up there and say oh billy eilish didn't start this trend etc etc no they're just gonna let her have her shine they're gonna say yeah she put that on the map whether she put it on the map or not

you know she's successful she's beautiful she got everybody wearing a certain hairstyle we i know i love her um and i would and i and by and when she does do these covers they're beautiful so when soldier boy says it it seems like we find the humor in it i don't think we would find that same humor if you did it why but forgot humor I don't think we only find humor when Soulja Boy says it I think we find humor and truth and there's truth and humor and that's why it's funnier because there's receipts to prove it with a lot of it some of that other shit he just be told everything he says but I'm saying a lot of stuff

he said people were like oh wow you know what he he did you know whatever he's not he didn't start everything in the world but he he was he is a trendsetter he did certain things whatever and he's educating the people that might have missed it right exactly you can't do that. Why? It's bullying. Exactly. Everything I do and say, it's bullying. It's a problem. You've sold too many records to do that. You can't do it. I'm sorry.

Do you realize how ridiculous that is? And this is the only reason why I'm saying that, Joe. Listen, when I say something about my accomplishments, they call me a narcissist. It's like it's not just you. Everybody has their little thing. They call me self-centered. They call me a piece of shit. Hey, why are you telling us what you did? Don't fucking matter what you did.

Shut the fuck up. Really? Listen, LeBron had that whole thing a few years ago. Shut up and dribble. Like, where the reporter said whatever they said. They don't want to hear from us outside of our respective fields no matter the markets that we've influenced like the markets i'm influenced don't have nothing really to do with music nothing to do with music at all some whole other shit that didn't mean i

didn't pick up the shit along the way to affect it and that don't mean that y'all gotta look at me a certain way when i say that i affected it. I think T.I. Now is going through something where the comedians are fucking on his ass. Because he's trying stand-up. He is? Mm-hmm. Really? He's trying stand-up comedy. Good for him.

Okay. I encourage people to go do new shit and try new shit. But it's that backlash that you speak of. It's, hey, I'm stepping out, I'm doing something daring and new, and it's my own people that Maybe have the most to say about it Interesting I didn't know that Yeah, okay. Well, here's what here's what why I want you to understand why it matters Joe

It matters because when I was saying it back then Nobody understood why it mattered right but it mattered because now for instance you see like how when you spoke and said oh this woman should have a Grammy because look at her work look at the people when they're performing they've been influenced by her right

when someone like you says it other people have said it other people say it or whatever. And they start realizing, wait a minute. Why? Why aren't we there representing? Why? So now it's you get a Grammy, you get a Grammy, everybody get a Grammy. Right. But the people before who deserved them just just are going to do without. That happens. That happens a lot. So like right now. do without that happens that happens a lot so like right now the reason why we waited all this time because i was telling people back then about it like yo y'all don't think somebody that has so

much um influence like setting trends as a female and and dominating in this space for so long should be on every on the cover of every fashion magazine people didn't understand why but then when they started looking back a couple years ago during coven and everybody was saying wait a minute this person was never represented if we don't have representation it's because we shut each other down when someone says it when someone says hey guys don't you think this is a little bit bugged out so that's what we were doing with each other with the Grammys. We were shutting each other down. But now everybody's saying, no, this rapper here does deserve.

He should have been that one. She should have been that one. Now they're giving them away to our black people because we spoke up. You understand? The fashion industry didn't have to do anything because we didn't really really make that much of an impact when we were discussing how crazy it was because we know what we influence and who we influence and how influential we are but if when a black person saying hey um this person didn't start doing that i've been doing this i did it if we keep on doing this now shut up don't say that don't then we never are able to say it and that's what they want they want us to shut the fuck up

and not speak on what we do so they don't have to put us on the covers of stuff now that people have been speaking up now that people are going to be you know are on the covers now people have been speaking up people are getting more grammys but it takes us our community just by ourselves when we start speaking everything changes it doesn't matter what they're doing in their fields it's when we speak speak up and when we back each other up for saying it that's when everything fucking changes so i think we have to be mindful of when you see a black person saying what they've done we have to be mindful to not like tear them down because we are looking at it as bragging but the the jews ain't looking at each other like they bragging when they say what they did the white people like they're giving

each other props the you know why only we look at each other like we're bragging or we're doing too much? You know why? We've always had to dim ourselves down. We've always had to dim our fucking light down. So it becomes so synonymous with who we are. So that if you start saying something and feeling proud of yourself, other people get uncomfortable. something and feeling proud of yourself other people get uncomfortable well that's why it's important for me to just be proud and not give a fuck what other people have to say about me but you got to learn that that's that thick skin is

like an acquired and acquired skill like we were talking earlier about how you've had to navigate through or not just you, but through the blog era and through the vlog era and through camera phone era. And you had to kind of learn to create that way for the people after. It's tough. And we take it for granted. We should let each other and our own community speak about what we think we did. What we think we did. You know what I'm saying?

What we've influenced or what we haven't influenced. Because there's nothing wrong with it. Shouldn't be taboo. It's okay. You know what I'm saying? We should own our influence. Yes! We should stop licensing our influence places.

So we could participate in all the different areas that our influence affords. Absolutely. Yes, I agree. In 2017, I, what year was that that I went to Paris Fashion Week, Joe? Was it 17 or 18? 17? I think it was 17. 17, right?

One of those years. It was an everyday struggle, yeah. So, look, Joe. I was in Miami. I was about to... Now, I had gone to the VMH, right? And everybody was like, oh, my God, your hair looks so nice like that.

Now, at that time, everybody started wearing their hair. Drip black, part in the middle, you know? So when we was about to go in Paris, I said in Miami, in the room, I was like, oh, you know what I'ma do? And this is who was in the room. Grizz, who was my videographer at the time.

Maher, who was my stylist at the time. And Neil Farina, who was my videographer at the time, Maher, who was my stylist at the time, and Neil Farina, who was my hairstylist at the time, I said, oh, you know what? They ain't giving me my props. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to wear my hair to my feet. Jet black, middle part to my feet. And I said this.

And I don't work with any of them anymore so i mean they would let you know if i was lying i know i said this i was like you know what watch everybody start wearing this style in their hair so of course they did right but now if that was a new fresh probably white artist even for something like that, they would have been on the cover of every magazine. You know what I'm saying? With that influence and all that. But not me, because if, like you said,

if I say, oh y'all remember in 2017 when I started wearing my hair like this, then our own would be like, oh girl, don't even talk about that. Why she gotta mention that? The reason why you got to mention it, y'all, let me make sure I explain this. It's because when we don't mention it, we are erased from those things. It didn't happen yet. They act like it didn't happen.

And therefore, they can continue to minimize our influence. That's why we don't have those, that's why Kanye is saying, you know, we weren't able to get in the meetings, get in the room, in the fashion company. If you don't let a black woman say, hey, I started wearing my hair like that in 2017. If you don't let a black woman say that, somebody else will inadvertently get the credit. And they'll continue showing no regard to black women for what we do for this culture. Very important point that you made. It's very true.

That's why Billie Eilish can come out on Monday with a new hairstyle and on Tuesday she will be on the cover of American Vogue with it they don't have to do it with us because we beat ourselves down yes I did start wearing my fucking hair like that rest in peace Karl Lagerfeld because when he saw me in Paris, he loved it. Now, to this day, everybody is wearing their hair like that. And we're just going to pretend Nikki ain't start doing it. I remember when I first started doing my hair. You bitches couldn't even spell prog. That's right.

And when I had my hair like that in my prog video, people would laugh at it. Oh, I love that prog video. They would say, uh-uh, where she going with all that thin? That hair all thin? She going to prog, bitch. Huh? frog video oh i love that frog video i wish she got me all that thing that hit what she's doing no but when i went to prague they was loving it chel no but joe i'm i'm happy i did i never wanted to talk about it i can only talk about it with you because you understand from both sides of what's happening when I started wearing my hair like that right the wigs that they were selling I posted some of them it was like it said the Nicki wig now if you're going to buy that kind of wig it's not going to say the

Nicki wig because everybody's worn it and it looks beautiful on everyone let me make sure I say that it looks beautiful on everyone everybody should wear it but we never stopped and said nikki minaj changed like i said a lot of fucking trends in hair and and a lot of shit but it doesn't go to us let me tell you one one other thing a male rapper said this to me a male rapper said this to me in 2015 he said black women would rather give Kim Kardashian their props over giving it to you they'll rather say oh I got this from Kim K and by the way Kim K is very influential and she has started a lot of trends and now I'm not gonna take that away from her she's very um she starts a lot of trends um but a

male rapper said that to me in 2015 and I didn't understand what made him say that. I said, really? He said, yeah, they would rather say they doing something like him than to say they doing something like Nicki Minaj. Why is that? And we didn't get into a long conversation with it, right? Recently, I just want to let people know the reason why the most whatever female rapper or whatever isn't being represented on uh hasn't been represented on an american vlog whatever it's because when if you don't speak up we don't fight for each other then they can take what you did and they can put it on someone else from on a different race or whatever you know and just act like it never you never happened and that's not okay because it's been happening since the

beginning of time when black men were standing up there singing and dancing and writing music and white bands were right were singing their music and those black men died poor their families because we have we don't do that i at the VMAs with my hair like that. Kim K had her hair wet and wavy that day. Looked beautiful. The following week at Fashion Week, Kim wore her hair the long black, right, with the middle part.

All I know is I said to my team in that motherfucking hotel in Miami, I said, I'm about to put it to my feet. So when they do it to their feet, they have to, you know, give me my props. Yeah. Not at all. You still ain't get them props. And it's not about the props. It's about, let's change the fact that when black people say, hey, I took this and such and such. Like when LL the other day day when everybody was

spelling out the money the thing with the money and he showed his shit and he said look I did this with the ice with the ice right and I thought that was dope I love seeing things like that I loved when people school us and say oh I did this and such and such, you understand? Now yes, yes Cher has worn her hair like this, yes Donna Summers has worn her hair like this, whatever, but you know why you wearing your hair like that right now and in this moment sweetheart, you feel me? Well that's the thing about influence, right?

Like, so powerful and we have so much of it, but who are we influencing like we don't know like when we type on this internet we don't know who sees it who's looking we could be influencing the person that some other people want to be the face of something that they shouldn't be right and that's why the ownership part comes into play. Like you mentioned Kanye earlier, I thought that one little sentence he said was profound when he said, hey, they offered me $100 million for my album exclusively, but I've never met Tim Cook. Yeah, yeah.

You wouldn't meet him because we want the influence. We don't necessarily wanna sit down and talk to you and listen to you and think tank and share ideas so yeah it's important for people to know what they bring to the table it's important to demand some shit and the fucked up part is that we got to bump our head a few times before we pick up the proper information to be able to say the shit that you're saying now yeah and um and by the way, let me make sure I say this because you know how they like to twist my words. The same

way I feel I should have already been on the cover of American Vogue, so should Lil' Kim. If we being all the way a thousand. If we being all the way a thousand. If this is what your magazine represents, influence. Then how do you not? How do you not?

If we being honest. If we're being honest. Because every single, any female rapper, when we, myself or Lil' Kim, goes on the internet, every day we see our influence. We will see our influence. So I'm not going to say it's about me only, right? And not give that woman her just do about what she did and what who's on the board or who's in the meeting or who's behind the scenes in the think tank and in the think group

and the brain trust saying hey well what about right and that joe thank you thank you thank you because i would have forgot to say this hold on let me say this hold let me say this because i actually i love um every time i've ever met uh Anna Wintour, she's been so gracious to me. And in the beginning of my career, she, you know, she let me sit with her and she showed me love. And so let me make sure I explain this properly. There are people around, Anna Wintour is probably in her 60s. I don't know how old Anna Wintour is. I don't expect Anna Wintour to know everything

that's going on with every rapper in the game. I'm talking to the people around Anna Wintour. I'm talking to the people around the biggest decision makers in fashion, in the fashion world. I don't expect, like Karl Lagerfeld, he wouldn't have probably seen me if he didn't bump into me at the party that I happened to go to that day. So look, when he did see me, he did the right thing. He said, I want to do a shoot with you. I love this, what you have, this hair. You understand? So she may not know.

I don't expect anyone to know everything going on in rap. This woman has the biggest job, one of the biggest jobs in the world. So I want to just say she's always been gracious to me. It's not about that. But it's what you said, Joe. Who's at that table with her? Y'all know. Y'all 20-somethings old, 30-somethings old.

Y'all know. It's your responsibility to wave the flag. You don't just take it and put it on another face and another person. No, no, no. Not just wave the flag to it on some another face and another person no no not just wave the fat flag to die on the sword word if if you are the entrusted person to convey culture or to relay relay culture if you are the voice to this person who may not typically get it then no you gotta lay on the floor and fucking die for that and really express the message even if it's to your detriment.

There's too many times where you bump into the nigga who it's their job to explain why this person would be a benefit to your company. And we should have been past that point. Or should be past that point. No, you just said some real ass shit. And I hope people understand what you just said. I hope they won't get it but it's very important because no owner no face of anything is the person that's doing everything by themselves they hire people around them for a reason that's

the reason for you to be the eyes and the ears on that whatever is popping and be like no this person she did he did he yeah he's who was influenced he's who they listen to yes it's your responsibility yes it is your legacy today and how you see it versus what your legacy will be when you're done. Because listening to you talk, girl, you're a long way from done. Your brain, I can almost hear it. Yeah. You got a lot of plans, and they all in so much motion

that you can't even fucking really share it. You just got a lot of coming and it all need to be in lieu of one another yes i just feel like i sold myself short when i didn't um like i'm a business woman in a lot of ways and in a lot of other ways I didn't let my businesswoman hat come on in time. Right? Like I think it was my, and I'm not blaming anyone, I think it was my job to know. And people used to tell me sometimes, but I was so caught up with, you know, writing. And I don't think people understand, and this is another thing you'll be able to understand.

When you write your own music it's a very time-consuming thing people don't understand how long that takes especially when you're a perfectionist how many times you you cross it out and redo it and people probably say oh you you fucking that was ill and you know you do it over and over it's a time-consuming thing so I think if I could have figured one thing out earlier I probably would have said okay well this time you take into me right right right yeah right right spend half of that time on that and go in and get your your makeup deal and

your this and that and the other things right which I'm doing now right because like when I did the Mac campaign right which is a campaign that funds AIDS research and awareness and stuff like that, I had the highest sales in my Mac campaign. benefit people in that um that are either living with AIDS or or just the research to to teach our kids and teach everybody about what's going on with with HIV and AIDS right but all of the biggest girls do it and mine was the highest selling one I would put out one lipstick it would sell in sell out five seconds and we would we would try little limited things, it would sell out in five seconds. And we would try little limited things online, it would sell out in five seconds. I put on Crocs, sells out everywhere. I put on the pink hat, sells out everywhere. I put on the Louis Vuitton accessories with the whole outfit.

Whatever, you know, my younger fans can buy, they're going to buy it. So next thing you know, it's going to be sold out on the website. It's nobody's job to say, Onika, you need to be selling your own shit that's going back to you and your son and your son's son. It's nobody's fault but my fault. It's their job to not tell you. Right. I should have figured that out. I should have been more on top of that sooner.

So I don't blame anybody. But what I will tell the girls now is to play on your strengths and own that space. the trends, the trend with the braids. I didn't know that. I think someone told me afterwards, right? Because I was on my little hiatus and stuff, and I came back, I saw everybody wearing a particular kind of braids, and I didn't know that Coil Array started those braids. You know, no, are people saying to the fashion people,

this girl right here, I know y'all gonna put a bunch of different white people that did it, but this girl right here did it. You know, I remember when FKA Twigs was wearing the baby hair. I love FKA Twigs. She's an icon. Yes. Icon, icon, icon. Like someone like her.

I remember before the baby hair trend became the trend. FKA Twigs was on that shit now we're gonna put every you know uh trendy person in the world on the cover of a magazine with the baby was did fka twigs get her just due for that and notice i just said three different women of color do you understand what I'm saying why we don't stop and give them their props you are highlighting this in the fashion and hair industry artists like NDR re and many others have highlighted this with the streaming services and how we're paid and viewed and treated there. This has been a constant conversation with the young black TikTok dancers and creators and how the algorithms algorithm.

So what you're saying is blanketed just across the industry. you're saying is blanketed just across the industry what I try to think about when I go to bed is how do how do I make some progress even if not for me but for my grandkids or great-grandkids how can we just change anything about this shit are there any are there any industry standards that we as artists and media and influencers can initiate and how so it's loaded right but but i think that you should definitely um begin to figure that out you would be surprised how many people would lend their voice to that cause with you.

When I spoke to you, when you and I was fussing and fighting and cussing each other out, one of the things I said to you, I said, oh, it matters coming from you. Because when you speak on a rapper, it's different than anybody else speaking on a rapper. Because when Shaq or Charles Barkley is speaking about the game, the players, they know these guys, they respect the sport in a different way because they've played it, they've been in there, not only when it was game time, but when it was dark and when it was lonely and when it wasn't too fun.

And I was saying, I think I used the term one of the gatekeepers or something like that, and you were like, oh no, I'm not one of the gatekeepers. I don't know, whatever, what our back and forth was. And I said, well, you don't see that. Well, that's the problem. back and forth was and I said, well, you don't see that. Well, that's the problem. A lot of times as black people, we don't see our power until it's too late. You don't see our influence until it's too late. That's why I highlighted when you spoke on Queen Radio and I highlighted when you spoke on the Grammys for me personally, not because of those are things that are important to me but it's but because I wanted

to show the world hey it's what he has to say is important and the only way we tell the world that is by us saying it like I can't say oh you know what it's whatever what he thinks is important I have to show that I think it's important by reposting it and saying, hey, thank you, Joe, for saying this. Thank you for caring. Thank you for paying attention to this. Because when you said that about the Grammys, a lot of other people said, yo, he's right. You understand what I'm saying? So that's why I hold certain people, I hold y'all to certain standards, higher standards.

If you know that, you have an influential voice, right? And by the way, I don't expect y'all to like everything I do. I'm perfectly fine if you say, yo, Nick, you could have came harder on that verse. You should have came harder on that verse. That's fine. And people be thinking you want people to- Should that be a text or a tweet? However you want to do it.

Because I think you would know how to do it. i think i think i think you you would know how to you would know how to do it you know i'm saying and i don't i don't expect to anybody to only praise me and and never say something that's constructive you know i'm saying if it's something constructive you you already know how i take rap seriously so if a person that i feel like is an ill is an ill lyricist tells me something like that i I'm going to take it to heart. I'm going to listen. You know what I'm saying? And I'm going to use it like, yo, you know what?

I could have came harder on this. That's how I think about rap. But I'm just saying when I had called you one of the gatekeepers at that time, you was like, oh, what? No, I'm not. And now I hope that you are more comfortable in that role because maybe people wasn't saying it outward. You know what I'm saying? They probably, so a lot of times people get attention for the wrong reasons. Maybe people was just cussing you out when you said something they didn't like.

But maybe they weren't stopping to say, well, the reason why I care when you say something I don't like is because I think that when you say something, there's a level of importance there. People don't really do that. So I wanted to start with myself saying it and showing it and doing it because I've also not done it enough. Also not told people publicly certain things positive about what they're doing and what they mean to our community. So I said, you know what? I'm going to start with my motherfucking self. And I'm going to make sure that when certain people say things and do things, I'm still going to highlight it.

You know, even with the Wendy Williams situation and she said something to me one time and my fans was like, oh, she's been so horrible and mean to you and da da da. I said, it's okay. If I'm putting weight on the negative things she says about me, that means I care about the positive things as well that she said, right? So I'm going to highlight the positive thing, just like how I crushed your ass out about the negative thing. You feel me? So we all have to make sure we commend other people in our culture so that we all start showing other cultures that we are important to each other. You feel me?

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I hate to be cliche and say it, but motherhood is beaming off of you. Thank you. All of this good parent mother shit That comes after a kid It's true You talking that shit? I think

Yeah, my son has grounded me and changed me You sound like you're just in such a good space Mentally and spiritually I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here But like, last time I saw you The energy was low on edge It was a little defensive But that was still iconic We still was no we smoked that shit

that was it that was a legendary meeting for all that fucking took place right but when i left just artist to artist when i put my emotions to the side i'm like that nigga's going through a lot like we had apple husband there it's this dad it's label shit it's music like it's a husband there, it's this dad, it's label shit, it's music. Like, it's juggling a lot. Like, I used to have those moments in my career where I was just a little more on edge than I typically am. Wow. And there'd be shit going on.

Wow. So, you want to try to be, at least today I want to try to be more empathetic to what artists have going on. Right. Right? so that's important yeah because you did go over to the other side and it was that's why i was like uh you acting like you don't know what this shit feels like you went over all the way to the other side at one point and it was just like you was like on the other side completely i say excuse me yeah yeah i remember i remember but listen you saying shit like this and. But listen, you saying shit like this, and I'm done, but you saying shit like this is what has some of these barbs thinking that my barb card is fake.

Some of these barbs think that it's up and it's stuck. No. No, you have to tell them. It's like four or five of them niggas that's still a little flagrant. The rest of them kind of know it's peace. Listen, listen. Y'all, Joe did something that erased any craziness he said in the past, which is he spoke up and defended me about something that I had been fighting about for years,

and nobody else did it. Nobody else wanted to speak on it. He didn't have to. He knew he was going to get a lot of shit from other people who control a lot of the media that comes out, but he didn't care. When I see people like that, that take a stance even when they know they can get backlash, and remember, he's not my friend he didn't know if if it was gonna matter to me or if he was gonna get he didn't do it thinking i'm gonna get some

cool points with this i'm gonna get an interview with it it wasn't nothing like that he did that on his own in fact i didn't even know about it right away i i wasn't even on the internet right away when i when that came when i came back i saw that I said he said that what the hell that was amazing because I look you and um and then on the other side you know there was a situation I went through with a breakup and everybody was tearing me down and having the biggest kiki and you know I always say 50 spoke up for me he didn't have to the game was another one and also Boosie Boosie spoke up for me and so to this day I always am going to remember those people and respect those people when somebody when people are kicking you while you're down and somebody says wait hold on hold on hold on you never forget those people

that's just how I am I'm never going gonna forget those people and and during that whole grammy grammy conversation and all that stuff and when everybody was using it as a dig at me and to laugh at me uh joe came out and spoke on it and didn't and didn't waver on it he said he said what the fuck he had to say and then we're gonna fix that and it made a lot of people say wait a minute he's right because they knew he wasn't saying because oh he's in her camp or he's cool whatever no and that's why they respect a person's opinion they respect people's opinion who's going to just speak truth no matter if you want kudos from this artist no matter if you best friends with this artist or not because me and him was not um speaking uh back and forth about shit i didn't even know

you said that you you didn't tell him i didn't ask you to say that you didn't tell me he was going to say that you did that because based on the climate of the culture you felt it needed to be said and you said it so whether or not i get a grammy or not i'm still gonna remember that this person put his neck out on the line to speak up for me we getting that grammy fuck you talking i know that it's the artist we can't not i mean you know what but but can i just say something and i always want to make sure i say this because people because people think sometimes that you don't care no i i don't i'm not saying and everybody that has a grammy you should be proud of your yourself so I want to make sure I say that too but no it's just about knowing that my people just my culture my community my circle of hip-hop knows what I've put in it that's all I wanted

that's why I've I'm not even I'm not even pressed about that like that as long as my culture of hip hop. We need people on the Grammy board that know that Essence was song of the year. Right. Like that. Right. We need to be able. And you want to know what's so funny?

We should have our own Grammy board. That's not on the Grammy board. Now you're talking. Our own Grammy board. You could now you talking you could do that you could put together a show you could put together a show with your own people and y'all speak on things for yourselves every quarter

or whatever you know what I'm saying and y'all make up who should have this or who should be nominated or who doesn't do that because if not there's somebody deciding these things and we don't even have a name or a face to put to it who was deciding these things you never know y'all don't care that you don't know who's deciding this no you talking that shit I totally agree somebody showed me today's not this is the last thing one of my fans pulled up pulled something up and it says, wait a minute, this artist's song came out and it's not on Spotify, top Spotify, it's not on top Apple, it's not on top iTunes, it's not on top Amazon, but their radio play is five times what Nicki is getting.

Why? and then two, three weeks from now, they'll tell y'all, look, this song is better than the songs Nicki dropped, because see, it's top, it's so high on Billboard. So you're telling me that if an artist drops a song, and clearly the people are playing it, and it's top ten on Apple for two weeks, and it's top on Spotify, and's top top top top the radio can

decide if they want to play that song or not and then it makes that artist looks like oh yeah people ain't feeling ain't feeling yeah yes sir what does this all mean people need to think about it because my fans have been talking about this thing Nikki don't care about being on the radio why would an artist not want to be on radio use your brains use your brains but there's a now we're going to do this on another show joe and maybe we can do this on a live or a zoom or something i want to have an open dialogue about this now billboard just changed the rules again about how what's going to count and what's not going to count now to me and I don't know this I'm not bad mouthing anybody or anything but to me it makes me feel like well once they

realize the fans have the power or the artists have the power again they do stuff to to pull those but you're rude yeah and and and my fans are like, oh, no, you can pay to have your songs on the radio, and you can pay, and then Nicki doesn't want to pay to have her songs on the radio. Can y'all stop talking? What if y'all don't know what the fuck y'all be talking about, people, please? That's not how it works. That's not how it works. Some things are being paid for with cash.

Some things are being paid for with cash. Some things are relationships. There's a lot of things that go into this industry that I can't mention for a lot of reasons. But just use your brain. If I could pay to have whatever the fuck I wanted, why wouldn't I pay for it? You would pay for it. Right. Use your brain. So, but my point is, Joe, you tell me.

We all know if the radio plays something over and over and over, you might, how many times have we ended up liking a song we didn't like in the beginning? A million times. Because the radio played it over and over. Conditioning. Right. So now they're telling you, oh, so the fans figured out a way, because you know, when me and 6ix9ine went number one, they was mad as hell, Chad. Yes.

A lot of people were mad. So right before I was about to drop this stuff, there's new rules, new changes, right? Because certain people with a big fan base, they were buying multiple copies and different versions and whatever. And that's fine. I understand that. I'm a fair person. copies and different versions and whatever and that's fine I understand that I'm a fair person but now what happens when it's naturally with the general public still on the top 10 of Apple and a song that hasn't touched the

top 10 of Apple or the top 10 of Spotify the top 10 of Amazon I uh title whatever what so so what does that mean Joe you? You tell me. What's fair? If a song comes out and the general public doesn't go to stream it, you telling me it should be played on the radio more than my song that is being stable in all of the streaming services? I hate that you have to even ponder these things. Right. I hate that you have to even ponder these things. Right! It's that, and I wouldn't, other than my fans feel so, they feel mad, like if they go number

two and not number one, they mad and they thinking, oh no, we gotta, you know. And my fans do so much. I don't want my fans feeling bad about themselves or thinking they didn't go hard enough. You guys went super hard. You guys are fucking amazing. You guys went super hard. You guys are fucking amazing. You guys went as hard as you could. It's just the label people work at the streaming services and billboards, so they're never going to run in alignment with what the artists and you guys want.

Sorry. Sorry. Hate to be the bearer of bad news. Yeah. Recently, you've seen a switch in people who normally have a lot of promotion, promotion. When they drop something without that promotion, the songs are not doing what those other songs did. So there's a lot of things that you guys don't understand about the music industry.

But don't think for a second anybody, any artist would say, oh, I can get radio. I don't want to get radio. Like, come on. Stop. And I want to just make sure I say this. Shout out to the radio stations because actually they've been showing lots of love to the songs that we just dropped.

Spotify has been showing lots of love to the songs we just dropped. So you know what? It's just things that you can't control. It is what it is. But we should have open dialogue about what's going on. We should. I agree.

We should continue to have that open dialogue as artists. Because I would love to hear one day when we can just talk about this, I would love to hear what you have to say about a lot of this. Oh, this is my bag. I'm sitting here being quiet because you're going to trigger me. And this is such a great conversation that I want to just remain cool and zen-like. But yeah, in the future, we should definitely do that. I just want to have

one. We could do a live just so that it's open. People can hear it. We're not hiding nothing, whatever. And not bashing anybody. I want to make sure. This is not about bashing. Please, y'all got to stop. No, be happy. I'm very fucking happy. I just had the biggest debut of any female rapper of this year.

I just broke more records with these two songs. So first, let's start by giving gratitude. I just want to be thankful, too. It's not always about everything you see. It's about complaining and saying, we could have did this and somebody could have done that. complaining and saying what we could have did this and somebody could have did this. How about we just say thank you that somebody 14 years in their career is debuting number one on four different charts and number two on one of the other charts. What difference does it make?

Y'all putting more weight on this other chart. I got four number ones with do we have a problem, child. Them charts count. We get a plaque for all them uh charts do you realize that right joe my publicist is in the back uh you not get it and joe please send me my plaques for number one on for real i'm serious hip-hop songs streaming songs hip-hop r&b songs those we you they send you a plaque for all of those so i don't know what the fuck made y'all start thinking that only one chart matters.

But no, the fuck it does not. So thank you, Barbz. I love you dearly. But me and Joe Button, we got to have a real conversation about that. It's a lot of things I want to pick your brain on. We are and we will. I can't thank you enough for this, for your candidness, for your honesty, your transparency. Barbz, I told y'all it was all peace and love.

Y'all didn't believe me. No, it definitely is. But we here. That's why I came here to do this interview. I didn't go anywhere to do any other interviews. So much has been going on. And you know, it's not outside of the TV stuff. I know.

I said that. I said all that this morning. I said, I ain't saying I really do a sit down. Yeah. No, no. And then there was some people I wanted to do one with in New York, but we haven't traveled there yet. So we'll do a couple of sit downs in New York as well. But I wanted to make sure I did this.

Now we'll have a subsequent interview, too, after some other things happen in the next few months. I got a feeling you're going to be pretty active these next few months. Yeah. So I can't wait to see it. On behalf of all of us we love you thank you we appreciate you i love you and i love you guys the crew thank you don't ever feel like you are taken for granted or that these niggas don't know what time it is because they do and that's what i've got and look at at those nails. It's not that long.

I cut them. I actually don't like nails anymore. I'm about to just have them. I just want to have them like short and no polish. Is that what motherhood has done? Yeah. Got it. Because I don't want to poke my little pumpkin pie.

He's such a cute little chunk. Oh, so for me, my son, when he was younger and when she wouldn't cut his nails, he was scratching the shit out of me and it was painful. Oh, he was scratching the shit out of his father. He be trying to fight his dad too. When his dad don't give him what he wants, he goes up to his dad. He's this short. He can only reach him there. He goes like this and he does a couple punches and a bite.

And my husband be looking at me. I said, Gotta love the kids. What a bundle of joy he's so serious yes and and you know but by the way best thing that ever happened to me it feels like it my son love him so much it feels like it you get tired of women saying it but I know but I didn. I'm such a whole different woman now. Who was I before? It's true. I get it.

It's true. It's true. It's true. The person lived inside of your stomach for nine months. When I would be just in my bed by myself worrying about everything there was to worry about, he was feeling mama. And, you know, he was giving me his little blessings. My last question, because this is a parenting question.

Like, sometimes I look at my kid and I see some shit that he only got from me that I have to parent against. Have you experienced that? Of course. Okay, that's all I got. Of course. I don't like how, I don't like his level of determination. And I think it's from his dad too. You know, we're so, ugh, New York, like that vibe. He is that vibe.

And he was born in Beverly Hills, Jess. That sounds great. You don't want that vibe. Let me not get us in trouble. Joe, it's a lot, Joe. A Beverly Hills vibe. But it's a lot. It's a lot.

So we're going to have to. You're New York to your core. I don't give a fuck how long you've been out here, you know. I know. Okay. But the baby, I don't know. Who does he think he is? He's just like.

His parents. Y'all. He's y'all. Yeah, we're going to have to. I'm going to have to for the next two years, once I can even start putting him on timeout. Because right now, you can't even put them on timeout. He's looking at you like, what? Wiggling back.

I tried to make up a timeout chair. Oh, you first time parents. He stayed in that chair for two seconds, looked, cracked up laughing, and then slid on out of it, child. Nothing. And then he knows the word dirty, and he purposely goes by the garbage can just so me or his father can say, no. And then he goes, looks. And then he has this wild look in his eyes. And he goes, and he runs away.

And then he pretends he's saying, that dirty, that dirty. I said, if you don't sit, show. Yes. And salute to dad. Sound like dad got it under control up there. Oh no, he worships daddy, that's his best friend. Y'all be hatin', y'all hate when that happens. I am hatin', I carried you in my stomach

and you had to do all this to mama, made mama's feet get bigger, one size, and all this stuff. Your feet are beautiful, you are beautiful. Salute to the dads. How old is your son? Four. You have an older one though.

Twenty. Twenty and four. Now with the four-year-old. Now with the four-year-old. Was terrible two actually terrible? No, the three. It was three. No.

It was a little later. Two was mad peaceful and I was bragging. I was like, yo, I ain't seen nothing about terrible twos. And the parents was like, it turned to three and four now. And certainly, as he got to three, he do what the fuck he want. Climb all over the couch. Yo, dog, you gonna hurt yourself? Get off of there.

Flip you the bird. What? Yeah, no, they do what they want. Boys. And boys are like boys that's the thing about kids even when he hurts himself yeah trying to be rugged and I said stop I cry at least anytime he hurts I cry like a psycho yeah it's fine ladies and gentlemen the amazing Nicki Minaj. That is a wrap.

Wrap final. Thank you, Joe. Joe, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for an amazing interview, Joe, too. You did a great job. No, you were awesome.