The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish - Bill Belichick: 8x Super Bowl Champion on Winning, Leadership, and Discipline

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

Eight Super Bowl rings. Six with the Patriots. And a mindset that goes far deeper than football. In this rare, wide-ranging conversation, Bill Belichick breaks down the invisible factors behind sustained excellence: discipline, preparation, and the mental edge that separates contenders from champions. He shares the surprising reason he kept Tom Brady as a fourth-string rookie, why talent alone is never enough at the highest level, and how true competitors find ways to win long after their gifts fade.  You’ll hear why Belichick cut a player the week of the Super Bowl, how technology is changing player preparation and locker room culture, and why “we have control of the game” became the rallying belief in the greatest comeback in Super Bowl history. This episode covers everything from how he decides when to push a player—or pull back—to how trust is built inside elite teams. Belichick also explains why the price of success is always paid in advance—and why there’s no shortcut around the work. If you lead a team, or want to lead yourself better, this episode is a masterclass from the greatest football mind of our time.  Approximate timestamps: Subject to variation due to dynamically inserted ads: (00:42) Patriots' Employee Guiding Principles (04:25) Talent vs Hard Work (05:43) Competitive Spirit (10:38) You Cannot Win Until You Keep From Losing (15:11) The Drawer and Prioritizing Your Goals (17:07) Social Media, Technology, and Football (24:45) Preparation and Success (27:55) Confidence In The NFL (29:45) Kobe Bryant & Learning To Evolve As You Get Older (31:02) Other Guest Speakers And Their Lessons (32:28) Disciplining NFL Players (39:45) Working Your Way Up & How To Train Staff (47:56) Motivation & Discipline (56:08) Correcting Mistakes and Moving On (58:28) Building A Team vs Collecting Talent (01:00:13) How Has NFL Coaching Changed In The Last 5 Years? (01:01:43) 4 Patriot Rules For Staying Grounded (01:06:11) Super Bowl LI Patriots' Comeback Thanks to our sponsors for supporting this episode: SHOPIFY: Upgrade your business and get the same checkout I use. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at ⁠shopify.com/knowledgeproject⁠ NOTION MAIL: Get Notion Mail for FREE at notion.com/knowledgeproject NORDVPN: To get the best discount off your NordVPN plan go to ⁠nordvpn.com/KNOWLEDGEPROJECT. Our link will also give you 4 extra months on the 2-year plan. There's no risk with Nord’s 30 day money-back guarantee! MINT MOBILE: Shop premium wireless plans at mintmobile.com/KNOWLEDGEPROJECT Newsletter - The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠ Upgrade — If you want to hear my thoughts and reflections at the end of the episode, join our membership: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership⁠⁠⁠⁠ and get your own private feed. Watch on YouTube: ⁠⁠@tkppodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The big thing about preparation and success is the price has to be paid in advance. You have to put in the work before you get any results. If you can eliminate all those things, then you can actually make progress on being a better football player and winning games. Was there ever a time where you kept a player on the roster who might not made it from a talent level, but sheer work ethic, sort of kept them around not only because they were improving, but because they made everybody else prepare harder? Yeah, absolutely. Let's start with Tom Brady. Welcome to the Knowledge Project. I'm your host, Shane Parrish. In a world where knowledge is power, this podcast is your toolkit for mastering the best of what other people have already figured out. Today's guest is Bill Belichick. Coach Belichick is an eight-time

Super Bowl champion who's widely considered the greatest football coach of all time. He is the only head coach in NFL history to win six Super Bowls, all with the New England Patriots. He's currently the head coach of the University of North Carolina football team, and this conversation needs no introduction. This is amazing. I'm so happy to have Coach Belichick on. It's time to listen and learn. When I thought about where to start,

I think the place that came to mind was the sign you had in the Patriots facility. And as every employee walked in, they read these four things. Do your job, work hard, be attentive, and put the team first. Right. Why did you want everybody in the organization to read that on the way into work? Well, that's really our game plan every day.

It didn't matter whether it was a day in the off season, a day in training camp, or the day before the AAC championship game or the day of the AFC championship game. Those things never really changed. We all had a job to do, whatever that happened to be, and every job was important. Every member of the team was important

that they do their job well. and being attentive and working hard is really the formula to getting better. That's how you improve. You figure out what it is you need to do better and that's by being attentive and listening to people who can instruct you or help you get better

and then putting the work in to make that positive change. Then always thinking team first. That's always the most important thing. What do we need to do to win and what can I do to contribute to the winning clause? And so regardless of what the task was, it was a coach, a player, a staff member, really any employee, it kind of fit for all of them. And again, because we played and practiced in the same facility, as I said, it didn't matter

whether it was the AFC championship game or whether it was a day in March or a day in June. It was the same every day. And so we strove for that consistency. What does it mean to work hard? There was a term in your book that stuck out to me called Eyewash. working hard sometimes people can come in and put in their time and check the box you know a player can come in put on his gear go out run around break a sweat take a shower and say well i you know i practice today i well but if you don't really accomplish anything then that really

is not not working hard it's actually we refer to it as a day off um no days off actually means you know you come to work and you go to work you don't come to work check the box kill the time and then leave uh you need to be productive while you're there So, you know, it's really just a way of saying, yes, we're going to put in the work, but we need to accomplish the things that we set out to accomplish for that day and then build on those tomorrow. Was there ever a time where you kept a player on the roster who might not made it from a talent level, but sheer work ethic sort of kept them around not only because they were improving,

but because they made everybody else prepare harder? Yeah, absolutely. Let's start with Tom Brady. Tom Brady was a fourth-string quarterback. his rookie year. He had three players ahead of them. And, you know, he just worked his way up. No team keeps four quarterbacks at any level.

High school, college, the NFL, it's really almost unheard of. And he would be, Exhibit A, Steve Neal, you know, a guy who never played high school football, never played college football, was a wrestler in college and then became an offensive at guards, started for us for seven years. Julian Edelman, who played a quarterback in college and then became a receiver at a pun returner, two positions that he never played in college in the NFL and became very good at him. So, yeah, absolutely, that work ethic and that day-to-day improvement, when you just stack those days together on top of each other for a sustained period of time, you know, it levels out

the talent. Sure, talent's important, but guys with a great work ethic. and who really are committed to improving can catch a lot of players with more talent who don't work as hard. Is there an example of a player who just had outrageous talent but didn't work hard at all

that sort of ended their career a lot earlier or they never made it? You know, they got to the big league and then they sort of just faded away. Yeah, sure. I mean, there are lots of them, unfortunately. You know, I referred to one of them in the book

that, you know, talked about coming in and being a running back and, you know, being a combination of, you know, two great running backs that were in Hall of Fame, and, you know, I think he had barely 100 yards in his entire career. So it's, you know, talent's one thing, but the application of turning that talent into being a productive football player and a great teammate is, it's hard to do it.

It's not that easy, and talent gets you through high school. It might get you through college, but once you get to the NFL level, that talent, that field, that field, levels out and there are only a few players that have such a lead talent that they they don't have to work very hard and can stay better than a lot of their competitors for the other 95% if they don't stay on it they're either going to get replaced or in a lot of cases players that don't trade hard will get injured and their careers will get cut short that way because they

don't you know commit to a good training regimen are competitive people competitive everywhere I think of like you, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, and you're always competitive in everything you're doing. And I'm wondering if that's a trait of hyper-competitive people or just the ones that reach the pinnacle of success. No, I think it transcends everything. It's unbelievable how competitive guys are literally over nothing. I mean, it could be for a T-shirt.

There's guys making millions of dollars, and it's for a T-shirt or, you know, not having... having to run a couple sprints or an hour later on curfew, they'll compete. And honestly, it isn't even necessarily for the prize at the end. It's just to be able to say, you know, I won. I competed and, you know, I beat you today. Or if they don't win, just the love of the competition, the love of the prize and fighting for that, the pride to say, hey, you know, we would have a lot of team competitive events like, for example, trivia, you know, or know your teammate and, you know, ask questions about different teammates of, you know,

maybe what position they played in high school or maybe another sport they play or, you know, some other random fact about teammates and play offense against defense or the wide receivers against the D-Bs or the O-line against the D-line and the rookies against the veterans and, you know, create different competitions in whether it was free throw shooting or cornhole or trivia or or, you know, all different things like that. Guys alike to compete, love to compete. And it was a lot of fun, actually, to move some of the targets around for the competition.

You know, some guys are good at free throws. Some guys are good at trivia. Some guys are good, you know, closest to the whole golf shots, you know, whatever it is. But it's just fun to see them compete. One of the best things we did, Shane, was we would have usually one of our rookie offensive and defensive linemen would compete against each other.

to catch a punt, right? And so you put an offensive tackle and a defensive tackle back there and, you know, you go one at a time and the punter would punt and, you know, we'd make sure that it was at least four seconds hang time. So, you know, the ball was up in the air and then

whichever, you know, whichever guy caught it first, then that group would win and the other group would have to do extra sprints or the group that one would get out of bed check or, you know, whatever it was. But it was a good way of team building because all the players were rooting for their guy who had never caught a pun in

his life probably, right? You know, watching Vince Wilfork and Matt Light back there catching punts, you know, trying to track the ball and catch it. And of course, I made him punt, you know, so the returner had the sun in his eyes, you know, had to deal with that. But, you know, to watch those guys do something they hadn't done before for some type of reward was, you know, was a great team building exercise and and they but they do they love to compete competitors are the guys that really love to compete um you know are honestly the guys that get the most out of their talent you know because they just are are determined to work hard prepare and and go right to the very end they might not be as talented as somebody else but they they play and compete

you know to the max you mentioned the last dance in your book what was your reaction to watching I mean, I thought it was awesome. And, you know, Jordan's one of the greatest competitors in any sport ever. And, you know, just, you know, his competitive spirit is, you know, up there with the guys that he played with. Like Lawrence Taylor at North Carolina, those guys, they still compete all the time on the golf course. So I thought it was, you know, a great insight into it. You know, Brady's a tremendous competitor. Julian Edelman, Bruske, every time about Bruske, came back from Stroals.

and continue to play, you know, some of those guys, Rodney Harrison, it's just, it's in an elite level, which it should be in the National Football League, but it's just at an elite level. I think one thing that surprised a lot of people when I talk to friends who maybe casually follow sports, it was how much, you know, Jordan's teammates had maybe a not love relationship with him always.

And do you think that's true? Yeah, I wasn't around him enough to, you know, the comment about that, but I think if you don't really like to compete, that a top competitor will kind of wear you down and it kind of, I don't say resist to it, but, you know, just to resist and compete at that level. So I have seen that from time to time, but the guys that really love to compete, love to compete, and they just join in there and compete with them. One of the things you said in the book is you cannot win until you, you can't win until keep from losing, which reminds me of inversion from Charlie Munger. What does that mean in a

football context? Oh, boy. Where we start. Anything that prevents you from achieving your best that you control. So it's not the opponent. It's something that happens internally. Examples would be, you know, guys getting suspended for performance enhancing drugs or guys that, uh, wouldn't hydrate and would pull muscle, you know, pull a hamstring, pull a grind, pull calf, because they weren't fully hydrated. Those aren't, that's not Buffalo. That's not the Jets.

That's us. That's us. And in the game, I'd say two of the biggest examples, well, there's a lot of them, but let's start with penalties. Pre-snap penalties. So penalties that happen before the ball snapped, those are our fault. you can't blame them on the other team false start illegal motion too many men on the field delay a game like all that that's that's our inefficiency that's not our opponents and really for the most part post whistle penalties plays that happen after the whistle has blown hitting a guy out of bounds taunting illegal celebration you know stuff like that where you just get carried away emotionally in the moment and cost your team you know personal fouls rough in a passer rough in the punter or

stuff like that that really happens after the play is over. Those are examples of beating yourself. You know, you can't win until you keep from losing. Those plays aren't because of what the opponent did. Those plays are because of either our lack of concentration, communication, discipline, whatever happened to be. And I'm not just putting it on the players. I'll put it on the coaches too.

You know, that's our responsibility to eliminate those. And other things, turnovers, for example, when the offense turns the ball over and the defense doesn't make a good play. It's just the offense fumble in a snap, fumble in a hand off. The ball goes off of receiver's hands, pops up in the air,

and the defense intercepts it. Plays like that that don't have anything to do really with good defense, the offense just gives the ball away. You know, snap the ball over the guy's head, the quarterback's head, snap it over the punters head, drop the snap, stuff like that, just plays that are poorly executed by us.

so as you can see it's a long list Shane some of them are off the field and some of them you know some them are on the field you know in college football would be you know being academically ineligible I mean that's you know that's not your opponent's fault that's you know that's that's a lack of commitment and you know doing the required academic work to be eligible to play so those would all be examples of you can't win until you keep from rules and if you can eliminate all those things then you can actually make

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I remember reading something a while ago, but the difference between being beaten and losing, and it sounds like what you're saying there is kind of hinting at that. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we've always said more games are lost than one in the National Football League. And when I say lost, I'm saying those type of things, missed opportunities, missed assignments, poor clock management, just fumbling the situation more than the other team, you know, really, really playing well to win. A lot of times if you just kind of get out of the way and let the other team make a mistake, they'll make one and you can capitalize on it and take advantage. Now, not all the time. again, you know, as you go deeper into the season and play better teams and playoffs and things

like that, that happens less frequently. But in a lot of close games, when you go back and really look at the way the game, the outcome of the game was the team that lost really probably should have won or had many good chances to win and just kind of messed it up. And more than, like I said, the winning team going out there and making all these spectacular plays. So again, the big thing is, you know, number one, keep from losing and number two, make the plays you're supposed to make. I mean, sure, there's some great plays out there, but before we get to the great plays, let's just make the plays that, you know, you're supposed to

make, just the regular ones, the normal ones, and that's execution, concentration, and discipline to do it all the time. You tell your players to focus on the drawer to help them, focus on what matters, What is the drawer and how does it help? The drawer was a saying that we used to, especially at the end of the year, like as you get into the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, and then the playoffs, you know, the end of the season's in sight. And wherever you are, you know, you've put in, you know, all the work back into the spring, training camp, you know, 10, 12, 14 regular season games, whatever it is.

And now you're really coming, you know, coming down the home stretch. and the drawer was just the way of saying unless it's a family or personal thing that's really important put it in a drawer dealing with it after the season do you need to go to sign these cards at the mall do you need to go look for a new electronic whatever it is

can you put those things aside and just finish the season spend that time on preparation for our opponents spend that time on, you know, rest, recovery, training, so that you're your absolute best one. We really need you here in these last few stretch weeks. And as you know, Shane, when you get to a certain point, it's a one-game season.

You know, if you lose, you're done. And if you win, you get to play another week. So when you get into that scenario, put it off until next week. And if you're in it next week, put it off until the week after that. But this is what we've worked all year for. Put those things in the drawer. and then open the drawer when the season's over.

Now, we would joke about it, and, you know, guys would say, hey, coach, you know, my drawer is getting pretty full here. So, you know what, maybe you need a bigger drawer, or maybe you need two drawers. But the idea was to put those things on the back burner and focus on the very special opportunity that we had in front of us,

which was playoffs or championships. One thing that seems to have evolved since you started coaching is that time becomes more fragmented now. players have cell phones. They have more distractions. I don't have an hour to sit there and do a meeting. I have all these competing things for my attention. How have cell phones changed the locker room culture

and made coaching easier or harder or technology in that way? Well, first of all, we don't have cell phones and Apple watches and things like that in our meetings so that they're not part of the meetings. But when the meetings are over, a lot of times the guys race to see what, you know, messages and texts and so forth are there. You know, my thing on that has always been, again, other than, you know, family and very personal situations, you know, the guys that are most important to each of us are the guys in that locker room. You know, the guys that you, you know, win and lose with and live and die with each day and that you count on them and they count on you. So it was really very important for us to focus on those relationships. And I tried to downplay the, you know, how many likes or thumbs up or whatever you get on. different social platforms. I don't even know what those are.

But what's more important is what the guy next to you thinks about you and the respect that you guys have for each other and the trust that you have in each other. And that's something that, you know, on a football team, you just earn every day. Every day you come to work as a coach. You know, you earn the trust and respect of your players and your other coaches by being prepared

by showing that you're there to help the team and you can help the team win. And again, it's the same thing for every player. And when you earn that every day, you build that trust and you build a cohesive team. And when you don't, you know, those are the players that, again, that other players don't trust as much. Is he going to run the right route? Is he going to be at the right depth? Is he going to block the right guy?

Is he going to be in the right gap? And that causes, when you don't know what your teammate's going to do, that causes a lot of hesitation on your part. And you're kind of waiting to see what he's going to do instead of knowing what he's going to do. and then you can aggressively do your job because you're confident of the people beside you. And I learned a lot about that with the, especially with the Navy SEALs, those elite teams. I mean, Blue Angels would be another example. You know, those guys fly 18 inches apart and, you know, the amount of trust in preparation and team work that's involved in something like that going, you know, 600 miles an hour or seven, whatever it is, is pretty amazing. But, you know, the SEALs, it's the same thing.

like everybody's got a job to do, and you learn your teammates so well that you can even in a dark room, you know, pick out his, you know, his silhouette or something about him that identifies him and, and, you know, each of you count on each other to do their jobs and accomplish the missions. And, you know, that's, obviously that's at the highest level football. We're not talking about life and death here, but we are talking about the championship level of performance of having that same type of trust and belief and confidence in your teammates so that you're never questioning what they do and you can be more aggressive in doing your job. And there's never that look over your shoulder of, is he where he's supposed to be? You know, if you know he is,

then you can perform better. So those are kind of the, you know, the themes that we try to instill there. I remember talking to a Navy SEAL once and he said, you know, when things get hard, you're doing it for the person next to you when you want to quit or when you want to give up or how much of that is in football too i think there's definitely a carryover on that you're you know you're you're playing for the team but you're playing for the guy beside you too you know and and especially in a sport like football or in a real combat battle situation like like the seals are involved in um you know you're talking about potentially getting hurt or you know or or or worse in a seal situation where you know that guy beside you like you have to count on him to

to do his job and you do yours for the same reason to protect each other. One of your most famous press conferences, you said snapface or something. And I literally spit out my water when I heard you say that. I was listening to the about social media. You're like snap face or whatever the hell it is. Yeah. Well, I've battled those social media platforms and now I'm actually all in one. So college football has kind of changed that a little bit.

I'm not too active on it, but I am on it. But again, look, I don't really have anything per se against social media. It's just, you know, prioritizing it. And as I said, I think that in a football locker room, the relationships between the players, the team, and the coaches are paramount, more so than people you've never met or seen or heard of before what their opinions are. And so I always, you know, try to encourage our players to, you know, not be too consumed with that.

But, you know, we'll worry about the guy next to you. That's the one that matters the most. How is technology changing the way that players prepare in the sense of, you know, the story that comes to mind is certain Jane Daniels last year using VR to get more reps. Walk me through how technology is changing and where it's really impacting people who are willing to put in the work. Yeah, that system that Jayden Daniels was referring to is one that he used at LSU and then also used it with the commanders last year. It's actually one that we have as well. It's one that's very hard to get.

It's only available very selectively, and so I'm pretty familiar with it. And it's an incredible system. It enables you to see the game, you know, in a pair of goggles in real life and real space. And it actually feels like you're getting hit. It feels like you're right in the middle of the game, but you're actually able to see things what you do

and then you can program in what your opponents do to create a very realistic picture and that you're also able to adjust the speed so you could actually play the game at let's call it 105 or 110% of the actual speed so that theoretically you're having to react even quicker

than you would in a real game situation so I can see you know how that could really help especially for skill positions like quarterback or on, you know, positions like that where you can, you have to see a lot of things very quickly and identify quickly what, you know, what decision you're going to make.

That's true of every position, the quarterback, especially when you talk about distributing the ball. And also for a player who's injured. So let's just say that you had a leg injury and you weren't able to practice or run full speed for a couple of days. You could actually see the game through this product and get your recognition and your reeds without actually having to run and, you know, be involved in a situation that physically you're just not, you know, what I'm not ready for. But I'd say a lot of the other technology is just, you know, things that maybe make it go a little bit faster, ways of grouping plays together, grouping situations together that, you know, allow you to research and analyze those things a little bit quick. but that's probably about across the board about the same for everybody they all we all have the

same opportunity on that I mean ultimately a lot of those situations come down to preparation but also maybe a gut feel of the way the game is going you said in your book the price of success is paid in preparation but you also said it was a way of working what did you mean by that well I think the big thing about preparation and success is the price has to be paid in advance you have to put in the work before you get any results. So there's no way to honestly know how good your preparation is or isn't. That's why I always try to emphasize keep preparing, keep working. You don't know what the other guy's doing.

He might be working just as hard as you are. And that preparation, you know, it can't be after the fact. I wish I would have studied more. It's too late at that point. You have to do it on the front end. And so getting in condition, you know, studying, preparing all your film and your opponents and all that, like those things are all have to be done on the front end. And, you know, a lot of times there's, I would say, a little bit of a tendency to just sort of let up on the preparation. Well, I've watched them film.

Well, I've done some extra sprints. Well, I've done this. I've done that. Well, is that enough? You know, is it really enough? And if you do more, will it make a difference? not to the point of diminishing returns, but to the point of, you know, comprehensive preparation.

So that's really what we tried to emphasize on that. The way that I think of at that is sort of, you know, the pain of losing is sharp, but it's over fairly quickly, but the pain of regret, not putting in the work, not doing the things, you didn't leave it all in the field, that lasts forever.

Exactly. That's exactly it. The pain of regret is much, more than done the pain of preparation. Absolutely. I think you had a 24-hour rule sort of after winter losses. You have 24 hours to think about it and then you move on. Is that? That's right. Yeah, you play the game. You go back, you analyze it. What do we do well? What do we do poorly? What do we do better? What adjustments should we have made? What coaching errors did we make? And so forth. And then you factor all that into, you know, how does that affect this next week? Sometimes there's

a lot of carryover sometimes the team you play the following week is completely different and some of those lessons may not really become applicable for a week or two weeks or three weeks until you see a you know a similar type of opponent um say like a scrambling quarterback you know maybe you play two or three weeks where those quarterbacks aren't too mobile and when you get up against another scrambling quarterback you go back and look at a how you know how how do we need to handle this better against this type of an opponent. So, but yeah, you look at all those things after 24 hours, win or lose or draw. You take your lessons and you decide how you're going to incorporate any of those things

into this week's preparation and practice, what we're going to do differently or maybe do more of or do less of, whatever it is. And then you're done with that and you move on to your opponent and spend the next five days, six days, whatever it is, of just, you know, digging in on that opponent and what they do. Talk to me with the relationship between the best talent in the world and, you know, you're playing in the NFL, you're coaching in the NFL and confidence.

Well, again, it's all relative, you know, Shane. I mean, as good as the players are in the NFL, the guys on the other side of the ball are pretty good, too. And, you know, I'd say every team, generally speaking, every team has about, you know, five or six players that are elite have elite payments, elite contracts. And then you might have some younger players in their first through fourth year, you know, two or three, four, whatever are those that are elite players that just haven't hit those top contracts yet. But they don't necessarily match up in the same position.

You might have a tackle. I might have a guard. You might have a linebacker. I might have a corner and so forth. So the way those elite players match up is very specific from game to game and how you want to match them, your matches against theirs, and how you want to deal with that is, you know, that's a big part of it. I think the confidence thing is really interesting. I think what really separates the great players is their ability to do it even when the bullseyes on their back every week, like,

it was with Tom Brady, like it was with Lawrence Taylor, like it is with Patrick Mahomes, like it is with, you know, players like that, Lamar Jackson and so forth. Every week, the teams are geared towards stopping those players and game planning against them or putting their best guy on them

or however you're going to handle them. And for those players to continue to be productive in spite of the game plan attention they get is what truly makes those players, you know, great and elite. And I think that you know, when we had Kobe Bryant come in and talk to our team, I think it was around

2018, 19, somewhere in there. And, you know, Kobe talked a lot about evolving, you know, and he said, you know, look, when I was 22, 23, you know, I could just get the ball and drive by anybody and score. He said, I can't do that anymore. I still score, but I found different ways to score, moving without the ball, jump shots, and, you know, being better in pick situations and all those kind of things that, you know, he said, I found ways to evolve my game because I just couldn't do the things I used to be able to do as well, but there are other things I found that I can actually do better. And I thought that was a great message for all of us to hear that as we, you know, as we go through our careers,

do the things that are working, do the things that you can do well, but also evolve, continue to learn, continue to, you know, find ways to be productive that are maybe a little out of your comfort zone or are not, you know, habitual for you now. But if you can become good at them, they can be great, you know, great tools for you. Are there any other people that you brought to speak from sort of different sports? that sort of had a different message that resonated with you or the team

and just stands out in your mind? Oh, yeah, we had a lot of them. Yeah, we had a lot of them. And it was great because, you know, the guys, you know, they hear a lot of football stories, but it's good to hear all the ones. One of the ones I thought was particularly entertaining. A couple of them.

One was Paul Asiante. They won like 14 national championships in a row. They won like 160-some games in a row, matches in a row. I mean, and at the Patriots, we were favored in almost every game, you know, not every game, but most every game for quite a while. And so, you know, I brought Coach Asianti and I said, you know, here's guys won like 13 straight national championships. They won 160 some matches in a row. I mean, he's talking about being favored now. Like, they're favored.

And like, let's listen to what that's really like. And he was great. He talked about it doesn't matter whether you are or aren't or how many you have or haven't. one every day is an opportunity you make the most out of each day and you just get better each day and you don't worry about what you've done in the past you just you look at today's opportunity and make the most out of it it was great so one of our coach one of our players sticks and stand up and said hey coach i have a question what squash i thought it was a vegetable and jimmy johnson you know we were going into the playoffs and jimmy came up and he was

doing a you know a story on somebody and i said hey would jimmy mind, you know, talking to teams, say, sure. So he said, yeah, let me tell you a little playoff story here. You know, when I was in Dallas, we were getting ready for the playoffs, and we were in a special teams meeting. I'm standing in the back, and I see, I see one of our, one of our players back there kind of dozing off and not paying attention. And he said, he wasn't a, it wasn't a starter, but he played in special teams. And he said, it just really annoyed me. And so I went over, I flipped on the lights, turn the lights on a meeting. And I went over to him, I said, that's it. You fall asleep in this meeting.

We don't want you. This is your primary job. You take your playbook and go see his job manager. You're done. You're cut. And everybody's like, whoa, you know, that woke everybody up. And, you know, it was right before the playoffs. So, you know, any questions?

Yeah, coach. What would you have done at that event, Troy Aikman? Jimmy said, well, I wouldn't have turned on the lights. I probably would have gone over to him and nudging and said, like, hey, Troy, pay attention. and the message was if you have a lot of pelts on the wall you might have a little more slack if you don't have a lot of pelts on the wall

you don't have any room you don't have any room you can't live on what you've done because you haven't done enough you better know where you are and until if you're Troy Eggman and Tom Brady you go but he goes those guys would never do that anyway

but you might be able to survive that. But if you don't have that kind of resume, you haven't had that kind of production for this team. So nobody wants that. You're replaceable. They'll find somebody else who will stay awake in the meetings and who will be more attentive. And that's pretty funny.

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but were you sent Derell Revis home from practice because he was like two minutes later or something? Oh, we had a few of those. Yeah, we had a few of those. And honestly, those are tough ones, you know, Shane, because when you send a player home, it hurts the team it doesn't just hurt the player it hurts the team because you know you need the timing

and the communication and the teamwork out there but I try to treat them all the same but I do think Jimmy Johnson I believe that and Coach Parcells you know the same thing yeah that did the same thing

there were certain players got a little more grace than others based on you know what they had done for us and they I would say kind of earned that So I tried not to do that, but there were times when, you know, when I did, but I try to treat everybody the same, you know, they're not all the same. But you certainly want everybody to feel that, you know, we're all team members and it's not,

you know, we don't have an elite society here. We have different ranks and certain players can do some things and other players couldn't. So I try to make it as consistent as possible, but at the same time, I think you have to be flexible in a professional. professional football environment for some latitude and maybe for some, it's called exceptions to your rules. You sent one player home from the Super Bowl for having somebody in his hotel room. Was that a hard decision or was that a, how did you make that?

Was that team first and you violated the rules you're out? You know, I made it very clear before we went down there that, you know, it was a business trip and, yeah, we had a great year and we were all celebrating the Super Bowl and, you know, and what we had accomplished to get there. But here are the rules. And you don't have to break the rules. Go to the other person's room if you want to be with them, but our floors are secure.

And at the Super Bowl in particular, there's a good reason for that, you know, with Super Bowl tickets and guys with valuables and stuff like that. If it's not one of our players on the floor, I don't know whether that person is a friend of our players or an intruder. There's really no way to know, and no matter, you know, I mean, unless I knew the person for some reason, but you know what I mean?

You just don't know who that person is. So our policy was players only on the floor, period. That's it. And so, you know, it was unfortunate because I wasn't trying to say, hey, you can't have guests or you can't, you know, be with your friends or your companions or anything. That wasn't it. It's just don't do it on that floor. Do it somewhere else. I don't care.

And again, I was trying to protect the players by not having people on our floor that we didn't know that could roam in and out of rooms or could, you know, and if you don't remove those people, then you end up with, you know, potentially somebody leaves their room, then that person walks in, then you have a big mess on your hand.

So that was our policy, not just in that game, but everywhere, but unfortunately, because that game was, you know, we were there for five days. I just felt like it was a blatant violation of our rule. I want to come back to confidence for a second. One of the follow-ups I meant to ask, was there ever a moment where you had your confidence shaken?

And how did you handle that? Oh, plenty of times. I mean, honestly, Shane, there were times when, you know, I wasn't sure if we were going to win another game the entire year. You know, and we ended up winning a lot of them. you know, but sometimes you just see problems and maybe you want to fix them, but you just don't have the resources to fix them where you've tried a couple different things and it still isn't really the way you want it and you can see in the future

some real problems coming up with your opponents and some matchups and whatever the case might be. And you're like, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm trying to fix this, but I just don't feel very confident that we actually are going to be able to handle it the way we need to. And ultimately, you know, in most cases, it wasn't maybe as bad as what I thought it might be. I was expecting the worst, and that usually didn't happen. So that's a good thing.

But, yeah, I don't know if that's a lack of confidence or I don't know what the exact word is. But, yeah, you definitely have those apprehensions. And certainly opening day is a difficult day because, you don't know very much about your team. You don't know very much about your opponent's team. And unless you have a really veteran team, you don't know exactly how the team is going to react in certain situations,

particularly tough and critical and competitive situations. So, you know, even though you have a good team, how are they going to react when, you know, you're really in a really a tight ball game? And that's something that you don't know until you've been in a few. unless you've been in a few with those guys and it's the same guys. When you first started in the NFL, you worked for nothing.

You worked part-time for nothing and then you switched to full-time for nothing. And one of the things that you said was I did anything and everything. And I think of this as like a taste for saltwater. You do the hard things, but you were snapping the football, but you were like, oh, the benefit was I got to listen to coach, talk to the QB. and walk me through, like, how that's changed today and what people miss when they hyper-specialize. Well, I think one thing that that I see with, you know,

some of our younger staff members, coaches, and things like that is they're very concerned about their title, you know. Can I be the, can I get this title? Can I get that title? And the coaches of, you know, can I be the run game coordinator? Can I be the Blitz coordinator? Can I be the zone coverage coordinator? Can I be the, I mean, it's like,

what are those titles for? Like, they don't impress me. I know what your job is. I mean, do you need that title to, you know, validate what you're doing? Or is it for somebody else? And I'm not really interested in helping somebody else. I mean, we all know what we do here. I mean, honestly, I was a general manager for almost 30 years of my NFL career.

And I never had a general manager title. And that was never important to me. I doesn't care about what the title is. You just, you do the job that you have. to do. So I see that. But for me, when I look back at it retrospectively, Shane, the big thing was I was so low on the totem pole that I did all the jobs at the very bottom of the organization. I shot film. I lined the fields. I moved equipment out there. I ran off Xerox copies. I made notebooks. I sharpened pencil. I did all those things.

And as you move up in the organization, it really helped me because I understood how everything functioned, you know, at the, you know, at the level of, you know, making things work, you know, deliveries and, you know, mail and stuff like that. I mean, all those things that needed to happen. I understood kind of the process of it, how it worked and what was hard about those jobs and what wasn't hard about those jobs. and as I, you know, gain more responsibility in the organization, I was always able to show appreciation for the people that were doing those. Like, hey, I know this is really hard. Hey, I know this is a tough week. I could sense what you're going through.

And I think that built some, you know, camaraderie and trust there. But also, it helped me understand how everything work. And there were multiple times when people would come to me and say, oh, coach, we can't do this. You know, we can't do this. We can't do that. And I said, wait a minute, I've done that job before. We can do that. here's how you do it.

Here's, this is how you make this work. And, and so I felt very confident about all the aspects of the organization, how they fit together and, you know, scouting and coaching and, like I said, equipment and video and security and travel and all those things because I was a part of those in one form or another at different points in my career. So I think, you know, for a lot of people, you know, when I talk about we need to start at the bottom and you really need to understand how that you really need to understand how the organization works, there's a lot, I want to skip those steps. There's a lot, you know, I just

want to jump up and coach the line backers or the tight ends or whatever it is. And I, I mean, that's okay, but it would really help you to understand what happens in the entire organization. And if you want to really move up and become a coordinator and a head coach, those will be very valuable for you because you'll understand, you know, the different intersections of a very departments and how the organization works and where the conflicts are, you know, and sometimes there you just, you know, kind of two people doing the same thing or nobody doing one thing and you miss that intersection somehow. And, and that's just part of it. But, you know, how do you avoid those and how you make that more efficient? So I really try to encourage our, are the younger

people, you know, to do those jobs and embrace them. Don't, how quickly can I get done with this so I can go do something else. No, embrace the job and embrace the process and, you know, understand it because it's going to help you in the long run. And the other thing is, you know, as I mentioned a couple of times in the book with, you know, Josh McDaniels and Nick Aserio and Brian Dable, if somebody has one of those jobs and they're really good at it and they say, well, I want to move you, you know, I want to move to more responsibility.

And I said, well, I want you to move to more responsibility too. But first, you've got to train somebody to do your job because what you're doing is really valuable. And that's when Brian Dable hired Josh McDaniels to replace him. And that's when Josh McDaniels hired Nick Othario to place him. And so, but it forced those guys to make sure that the person that was replacing them was not only good, but they trained them to do the things the way they needed to be done. And that really heightened our efficiency, but also enabled them to move up to responsibility, move up in responsibility. And so that really worked out well. I was, you know, I thought that that was, for me, that was a good way to

handle it because those guys were very invested in making sure their replacement did a good job because they knew they were going back to do that job if that person, if their replacement failed. A lot of people, when you ask them to do sort of the unglorious task, they just look at you and say, that's not my job. Yeah. Yeah, it's not my job or I'll get to it, you know, know, tomorrow I'll get to it next week or whatever. And those are, you know, I mean, I don't like to have those type of people, you know, around. And sometimes it's inevitable. You have to put something off.

I mean, I get that. But the quicker you get it done, the quicker you can move on to something else and be more productive. And, you know, the more you procrastinate it, then, you know, it just slows everything down. So there's got to be a priority system. I mean, I'm fully aware of that, but people that want to put stuff off and kind of hope that it won't need to get done on, they didn't do very well in our organization. One thing you mentioned that stands out to me, I think of this like stepping stones where people have a job, but they see it as a stepping stone to the next job. Right. So they're never fully present in the job that they're doing because they're always looking ahead.

And those people don't actually tend to do very well at the next level. Absolutely. And like I said, then they miss some of the. the things that they really need to understand at the level that they're at. And again, that's this part of do your job. You know, it's just part of it is everybody has an important job to do. And if you're trying to do somebody else's, then you're probably not doing yours well enough. And, you know, be patient and, you know, your opportunities will come as long as, you know, you show that you can handle the responsibilities that you currently have. But you're right.

A lot of times there's a big rush to move ahead and that a lot of times also bring sloppy work, incomplete work, and honestly, just a feeling that I don't, not really confident promoting that person because, you know, they're more interested in what they are going to be doing than what we need to do right now. How would you define discipline? Discipline is doing the right thing over and over again,

doing it every time. It's just continuing to do it. every time in the national football league the players are very skilled and talented and and i would say you know all of them can do something um they can all go out there and produce you know plays at a very high level um the discipline is what is what really separates the players is their their consistency and their discipline to do it over and over again um so you can count and depend on you know, at a very high and high rate. Are there any stories in your mind that stand out about discipline

or consistency involving players you've coached? Well, I mean, I told the story of Edelman, you know, catching balls before the Super Bowl, tennis balls and stuff like that. I mean, those kind of things that, you know, that players do, they have a routine. And, you know, if a guy's played eight, nine, ten, whatever years, if they skip a day in their routine, I mean, Is it going to be the end?

Probably not. But they're just so disciplined and so consistent to just continue to do it and maybe even do just a little tiny bit more to make sure that they're prepared for the game, especially the big games, that that's just who they are. So, I mean, I really respect that. But, you know, it's a little bit like the shopping cart, you know, when nobody's looking, are you going to take? a shopping cart back and put it in the, you know, where it belongs or just leave it there

in the middle of parking lot. And it's the same thing with a really disciplined player and teammate. Is he going to be disciplined to, you know, go in and get treatment after practice, you know, even though it's two days before Christmas or, you know, whatever it is, where is he just disciplined to not let something get in the way of his productive routine? And And that's, you know, the guys that do that, I would say, for the most part, have had very long and productive careers. And the guys that haven't have careers that go to a certain point with talent, but they don't have the same kind of longevity and consistency of a player like Matt Slater or Dev McCordy or Tom Brady or guys like that that people keep saying, you just keep waiting for those guys to drop off. they're a year older, they're a year older, they're a year older, but you don't see the drop-off because they're routine and their discipline is so consistent

that they're able to, they're able to sustain that level of performance, you know, far longer than really what the expectations in some cases are. Do you believe you can motivate people, and if so, how? I think you can definitely motivate them, and it depends on the person. I think there are different types of motivation. you know, we could, there were times where I think you could really, you know, motivate a player by just, you know, flat out challenging him based on something that, you know, somebody else said or intimated or something that might have happened in the past.

I think you can, you know, motivate people by, you know, especially, you know, sometimes maybe a more selfish type of player. You could motivate by, you know, making him see what they're, reward is for himself as opposed to the team. An example I like to use, Shane, is if you have a receiver and you want the receiver to come in and block on a running play and come in and block a safety, which is a hard job. Some receivers don't really want to do that. They're really not too excited about that.

They want to catch passes. But if you say, well, look, if you come in and block this guy and we need you to block them as a team, we need you to block him. We've come in and block this guy, then the next time we come in and you'll do the same thing, but fake it and we'll be able to throw you a pass when the defense comes up to solve the play. Well, the player's not coming in to block them because you asked him to block him and we really need you to block them. Julian Edelman would do that, but not everybody would necessarily do that. But when they understand, okay, if I come in and do it this time,

that opens up an opportunity for me the next time, then they might do it, right? And so now I get what I want. He gets what he want. there's some management and motivation in there, but in the end, both parties are able to accomplish their goals. I get the team goal, the player gets the individual goal, he sacrifices for the team, but for the other reasons. So, again, I think there are different methods of doing that. It really depends on, you know, how the player is wired

and maybe what circumstances, you know, you can use. Certainly when you've lost to a team previews, obviously, that's a pretty good motivator for most of these guys because, you know, you take those losses personally. And since we lost as a team, that is everybody. It's not, you know, one guy got a pass caught on them or one guy got to tackle. I mean, it's, it's a full team loss. So a lot of times you can, you know, you can generate a lot of energy towards your opponent by, you know, reference in that, you know, that loss. situation that might have happened in a previous encounter.

As a leader, how did you know when to be hired on players and when to sort of back off? And I'm thinking, you know, when a player makes a critical mistake in a game and they know they've made a mistake, what's your role in that moment? Well, again, Shannon, I think it depends on the mistake. You know, if it's sometimes, you know, something that kind of unexpectedly happens and maybe the player made a bad decision or maybe he did something that, you know, he's caught that pass 100 times and he's dropped at once and this is the one time, you know, some of those are a little easier to handle. I'd say the ones where, you know, you've told the player 10 times,

this is what you need to do when this happens, and then they don't do it. I'd say the reaction is a little bit different in that situation. You know, how many times do you have to be told? And, you know, maybe, you know, you just don't want to do it. We'll put somebody else in there to do it. As I can see that, you know, you're not, you know, you just don't care enough to follow your assignment. So, you know, it kind of depends on those. I think one of the biggest things in football is correcting mistakes, and we all make a lot of them.

But during the game, when time is of the essence and you don't have much time, you need to figure out what went wrong pretty quickly and fix it. So let's say defensively, we came off the field and we'd given up a 20-yard run and maybe a 15-yard pass and another third-down conversion. and say, okay, all right, like, what are the issues on these plays? Well, let's say the 15-yard run would be if one person knows that they messed the play up and just says, hey, it's my fault, I messed it up. Like, that was, we were in good shape, I was right there, I should have made the tackle,

I just missed the tackle, I'll make that play the next time. Well, great, that clears it up for everybody. We all know, we're going to do the same thing we did the last time, and this time I know that, you know, my teammates going to make the tackle versus, you know, kind of a blame game where I was here, you know, I don't know, I should have been there and should I do this and should I do that? And was I too deep and this and that? And then it's, you know, what's the issue? How do we fix it? Right. And so if you know you did something long, just own it. All right, admit it. And let's move on. Sometimes it's not that simple.

Sometimes you kind of have to figure out, well, I did what I thought I was supposed to do. You do what you were supposed to do. He did what he was supposed to do. We still had a problem. Okay, now that needs to be fixed. And so, but again, identifying mistakes and fixing them quickly is really the name of the game. And as a coach, you know, when I would say, look, that play was a bad call. I shouldn't have called that defense against that personnel group or against that formation. That's my fault. It's all me. I'm not going to do that again. Forget about that play. It's not going to come up again because I won't call it again in that situation. Okay, well, then, all right, well, so stop worrying about that play. Let's worry about something

else. So owning up to those mistakes and making the corrections is key. If you don't know what it is exactly, then that's when you have to figure it out pretty quickly, whether those are players or coaches or some combination. Because if you don't, you're just going to keep, you know, you'll keep dealing with the same issue over and over again and, you know, none of us want that. When I say the words, on to Cincinnati, what does that mean to you? On to Cincinnati? Well, it first of all means it was a long night in Kansas City. You know, we got totally beaten in that game, out-coached, out-played, out-everything.

They were just a far superior team than we were. And as a head coach, you have to look at it and say, you know, I didn't have our team, you know, where they should have been. And we didn't play well. We didn't do anything well. and it starts with me. But that game's in the books. It's over, and there's nothing we can do about it. We can't get it back.

So we just have to move on to Cincinnati and make sure that we don't perform next week, like we did last week. You know, don't let one game become two bad games. Don't let it become three bad games. Don't let it become a habit. Change the things that we need to change. So we played Cincinnati the following week,

And, you know, our players did a great job of putting the Kansas City game behind us and focusing on what we needed to improve on and do better and get ready for Cincinnati, who was, you know, a very good football team as well at that time. And so, you know, we were able to do that. And, you know, it became, you know, one of those catch phrases. But really the idea of it was move on and let's start getting ready for next week. It's kind of similar to the situation we had in 2001, Shane, where we buried the ball. You know, we lost to Miami.

We didn't play very well. Obviously, didn't coach very well. And we came back and, you know, we just took the team out there. I got a shovel. I dug a hole. I took the ball. You know, we put it in the ground. We put the dirt on the ball.

We stomp on it. We spit on it. We kicked it. We, you know, took our frustrations out. But that was the funeral. games over it's done we lost buried the ball buried our feelings move on i'm not saying that was you know this great thing but visually it it's sort of the point of it was put the game out of your mind it's over we've had the funeral life goes on i've heard you say we're building a team not

collecting talent what's the difference the difference is it's so it fits together so that the team is functionally as efficient as it can be. Not just a bunch of guys wearing the same uniform with different numbers, but a group of people who function well together as a team. And when you think about football, Shane, football is a team of teams, right? You have the offense. You have a defense. You have a

hands team. You have a punt return team. You have a nickel defense. You have a dime defense. You have a goal line offense. And so forth. You have all these teams. You have a these teams and they all come together to form one championship team. And so, you know, the idea is whichever team you're on, you need to be the very best team that you can be in that situation. If it's a hands team, it's a punt return team, whatever it is like that is critical to our success and you have your responsibilities on that team. I have my responsibilities on some different teams, but ultimately we all come together. And those share responsibilities.

responsibilities and those shared teams so that we can operate together functionally as a team are really what we're trying to accomplish. So it's not just getting a bunch of guys who can do, have good skills and can run fast and jump higher or whatever. I mean, that helps, of course, but they have to be able to operate as a team and as a team of teams. And, you know, a lot of that is a mentality, is a willingness to communicate and work with and efficiently cooperate with your teammates

so that collectively we can accomplish our goals when our units out on the field. How is coaching changed in the past five years? You know, outside of rules changes and things like that. You know, there are some trends. And I know I think as, look, when you're on defense, you have to react to the offense, right?

If the offense has three tight ends on the field, you're not going to be playing the same defense that you have. when they have three receivers on the field. So defensively, a lot of what you have to deal with, now you can say, look, we're going to play the same thing and make them adjust to us. But, I mean, there are certain matchups that just become, you know,

difficult to sustain that philosophy. So, again, what I'd say is it's important to defensively be able to adapt to what the offense is doing because ultimately you don't control who they put on the field. You just have to stop them. you know, offensively, you know, you take the talent that you have and try to make the most of it. So I would say in college football, which is where we get our resources from in the NFL, you know, some of that's a function of what's available, you know, what's coming out, what they're teaching in college, what type of players they're developing, because that's really what you have to choose from. So I do think there are some trends, but fundamentally, it really comes down to, you know, having good solid fundamental.

and doing the little things right that will enable you to win your one-on-one matchups. And I'd say I don't think those have changed too dramatically over the years. On the way out of the building, you had a sign that read, ignore the noise, manage expectations, speak for yourself, and don't believe the fuel or hype. Can you walk me through those? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, speak for yourself is pretty obvious.

you know if you have any comments to make just make them you know personally you know don't say things like we're Shane's looking really good this year i mean he should probably have 15 sacks the way he's he's rushing the passer you know and start making expectations and predictions for other people things like that ignore the noise i mean there's so much air time that's filled uh whether it's uh on the radio on the internet on tv of people talking about football all right and players and matchups and everything and again with all due respect and look I've been part of that too so I understand but um you know with all due respect the people that talk about it haven't been in our building they haven't watched us practice they haven't watched

us prepare for the game they don't know what our matchups are they don't know what you know they don't know our game plan is um so with all due respect what they say as it relates to us that it doesn't matter. If other fans want to listen to them, I mean, that's great. But, you know, when they say, well, you know, Shane Parrish has got to shut down Belichick or they're going to lose, that's, you know, it's just hot air. So ignore the noise. It's just ignore what other people who aren't really don't know what they're talking about are saying and focus on what the people in our building in this room are saying, what your teammates are saying, how they can, how you can communicate with them, how you can anticipate a play and help them react to

it and that kind of thing. You know, don't feel the hype. You know, when things are going good, I mean, people can't wait to, you know, you're 3 and O and they're selling Super Bowl tickets and they're already talking about, you know, repeats and all this stuff. And our thing was, don't add into that.

If other people say it, we can't control that. Once we say it, now we have to own it, you know. And so Belichick says, you know, we should be in the AFC championship game and we've only played four games. Well, then everybody else has to react to that. Shane, what do you think about what Belichick said? Tom, what do you think about what Belichick said? Gronk, what do you think about it?

It just creates a distraction. So fueling the hype or believe in the hype that four games into the season, we're talking about an AFC championship game is, I mean, ridiculous. It's just way too premature. Sure. So, you know, don't deal with that one. What was the last one? Ignore the noise. Don't feel the hype. Speak for yourself. Manage expectations. Right. And so, like, what a realistic expectations. This week, it's to beat the team we're playing. Like, our focus is on beating Buffalo this week. That's who we play. That's where we're at. You know, in terms of win the division, you know, which is eight weeks away from now, don't talk about winning the division. Like, that's not an expectation. We can't achieve that right now, even if we wanted to. It's only the fourth game of the year. Now, if this was the game to win the division, then okay, let's talk about win the division. But until we get to that point, you know, manage the expectations. The

expectations are have a good day today, have a good week, and to win this game. Those are our weekly, you know, expectations. You know, not where we're going to be in January, who we're going to plan on playoffs, or, again, managing expectations. of like, oh, this guy should go out and, you know, he should have 200, 2,000 yards receiving. Why don't you just worry about what you're going to do and, you know, stop talking about what other people, what your expectations are for them? That's speaking for yourself, but that's also managing expectations or, or a player saying, well, I expect to, you know, I expect to go to the Pro Bowl. Well, is that your goal to go to the Pro Bowl or is our goal to win a championship? And let's go back for you for a minute.

You know, what are our expectations? Like, let's think about what's the first thing first. Put the team first. You know, and that's, you know, team, teammate, self. That was the whole, you know, progression of, you know, trying to put the priorities in order for each of us. I want to end. I usually end with one question about success,

but I actually want to change that a little bit here and flip that around. And I want to talk about the Atlanta Super Bowl. You're down 28 to 3. And the thing that astounded me as a fan who's watched a lot of football and a lot of games was that nobody was sort of like hanging their head. You know, you look at Brady on the sideline,

you're down 25 points, and he still had confidence. Yeah, you know, Shane, it's funny. Sometimes you play a game and you feel like you have control of the game, but you don't have control of the score. And that was that game. I felt like we had pretty good control of the game, but we didn't have control the score at all.

There are other games where you have control of the score and you don't have control of the game. You know, maybe you're ahead by 10 points, but, you know, they fumbled, they threw an interception, you got a lucky break, and you're ahead, but you really haven't been able to move the ball, you really haven't been able to stop them. They've just fumbled it away a couple times,

and you kind of maybe got a lucky play to, you know, get your points. And so you feel like you don't have control of the game, but you're ahead on the scoreboard. And what you really want, of course, is to have control the game and control the score. But in that game, we had a real confidence at halftime

when it was 21 to 3 that, you know, we'd given up a touchdown on a third goal from the 12. We gave up a pick 6. We fumbled going in. You know, we missed some opportunities to, you know, maybe be tied

or could have been ahead in the game at halftime, or maybe 10, 10, something like that. And so, yeah, the score was bad, but we felt like we were, had control of the game. Well, then they go out and score and make it 28 to 3. And now I'm thinking, you know, we might have control the game of 25 points

is a lot to make up. And there's a lot of things that have to go right. So two two-point conversions and a strip sack and two kickoffs where we tackled them inside the 15-yard line. So they couldn't get in a field goal. range and another sack and another holding penalty and literally everything went right for us in the last 20 minutes of the game. There was no lack of confidence because we actually felt like

we had control of the game. We were moving the ball. We were playing good defense, but we just had a couple of bad plays in there that skewed us and skewed the score. But once that kind of settled down, you know, we were okay. And then once we kind of got rolling, again, we had some plays that we needed to make, and we made them, you know, on both sides of the ball, hanging the kicking game on those kickoffs. So everything had to go right, and it did, and we were very fortunate in that one. I really appreciate you taking the time today, Coach Belichick, and thank you for writing the art of winning. I loved reading it. It was a great read. Thanks, Shane. I appreciate it. Thanks for the opportunity to be on. It was a pleasure. Enjoyed speaking with you, and I look forward

to catching up down the road. You know, I just would be remiss if I didn't, you know, say how much. you know, Michael Lombardi has contributed to my career and indirectly to this book. I mean, a lot of the things that we talk about and I talk about here are things that I share with Mike or that Mike helped me do. And, you know, it's great to be able to work with Mike, you know, at North Carolina. But he's a great motivator, very well organized, very efficient, and, you know, as an excellent partner to, you know, to build the program down there. So I really appreciate all of not only Mike's help, but his guidance and, you know, his, the daily coach and the, you know, the motivation that he puts out on a daily basis is something that, you know, we all look forward to and enjoy it, Carolina. I'm looking forward to getting down there watching again.

I look forward to having you, Shane. Thanks for listening and learning with us. Be sure to sign up for my free weekly newsletter at fs.blog slash newsletter. The Farnham Street website is also where you can get more info on our membership program, which includes access to episode transcripts, my repository, ad-free episodes, and more. Follow myself and Farnham Street on X, Instagram, and LinkedIn to stay in the loop. Plus, you can watch full episodes on our YouTube channel. If you like what we're doing here, leaving a rating and review would mean the world.

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