The Livy Method Podcast - Day 23: Why You Wake Up at 3 AM Worrying (and How to Stop)

Episode Date: October 6, 2026

Two sleep experts. One question for nine o'clock on a Tuesday morning: what do you do when you're exhausted, overwhelmed and your brain won't switch off?Gina talks with Dr. Beverley David, a clinical psychologist who has been teaching insomnia treatment since 1998, and Alanna McGinn, a sleep, stress and divorce specialist. They cover why rumination wrecks sleep, how to break the worry loop with small tools like a word or a giraffe, why moving your body matters more for sleep than for burning calories, and the habits that quietly sabotage midlife sleep.Where to Find Them:Dr. Beverley DavidInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdrbeverley/Website: https://www.yourpsychologycentre.ca/storeTo sign up for Dr. Beverley's Insomnia Solution (CBT-I) Fall session: https://www.yourpsychologycentre.ca/store/improveyoursleep7pm-mszxh-py58n-eghrj-ttg79-hmwaa-b8k3d-kzngb-r84sa-nteyx-26cxeAlanna McGinnInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/alanna.mcginn/Websites: https://www.goodnitesleepsite.com/ https://alannamcginn.com/ Podcast: https://www.thebedtimeedit.com This podcast aligns with Day 23 of our Fall Program, members can find video in our Livy Method app or Livy Method Community Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodThere is still time to join the Fall Program and there are two ways to join you can purchase the Fall Session for $99, or become a member for $20/month for year-round support, access to every session, Livy AI, member perks and more. The program is meant to fit into your life, not make your life the program. So start when you’re ready, make it work for you, and visit livymethod.com to join us. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

New season, new name, bigger conversations. Welcome to Live Lighter with Gina, because lightness isn't something you find. It's something you create in your body, your mind, your home, and in your life. Real conversations, no bullshit. So let's lighten things up for you. If you're looking to lose weight and you want to keep it off, you have got to check out the Living Method. Our next live session starts September 14th.

better than ever, easy to follow. We have the most incredible community, and it works. Head over to living method.com to sign out today. Welcome to the show, ladies. Hi. Good morning. Hello, though I feel like I'm going to see you again because you're going to be joining me at the National Menopause show.

We're all going to be on the big main stage. If anyone wants to come and hang out, we'll add some details later. But Dr. Beverly David, clinical psychologist, also love for talking about sleep as a sleep. sleep researcher. Alanna McGinn is, oh my goodness, sleep, stress and divorce specialists, which I feel like they go hand in hand. 100%.

You've been through one, you know. I feel like we've had so many conversations with you both in the past. We have had extensive conversations about sleep and how to get the best sleep and sharing tips. And same with you, Dr. B. so many conversations about how our history dieting factors into our current journey. I mean, we talked about anything and everything. Today, I want to actually ask you what you do. Like, what do you do to manage your stress and get better sleep? And how do you navigate life when you're

just so fucking exhausted and maybe overwhelmed, burnt out, or just don't know how to make a move? I know that's really loaded for like 9 o'clock in the morning on a Tuesday. Way to throw it at us. Jeez. These questions are getting brilliant. Let's get deep. That was the theme today. It's like I'm exhausted.

Even when I feel like I'm doing all the things, I'm drinking my water. I'm taking the supplements. I'm doing the sleep tips. I'm exhausted. I just, and so I feel like at what point is it the physical things, the supplements and the, you know, maybe the working out and the eating healthy and trying to do all the healthy things versus actually the mental, like what's going on mentally with us. Do you want to go first? You go first. That last bit confused me a little bit, Gina, that last

part of your question. But if I went to the first bit of the question, what do I do? And I should know, I have a PhD in insomnia. I've been teaching this since 1998, which is a long wrong time. However, nobody gets away spot-free because when life happens, whether it is a divorce, whether it's a baby or a loss or stress at work or our hormones or our puppy or our elderly dog or our parents, whatever is going on in our life, it will often impact our sleep because when things are a little bit awry and threat is around or unrest or uncertainty, our evolutionary brain is going to say, don't sleep, stay up, be on guard, check everybody is fine, look out for the dangers. So it's a hard thing to look after and preserve when

stress is happening. So we want to just try and remember the fundamentals. Before we go outside, side and think, okay, let's look for the supplement or let's look for the mattress or let's look for the, we've got to first of all think of the basics and that's where we go to, well, how does sleep work in the first place? Sleep relies on routine and regularity and consistency. So you want to give your beautiful body and brain the best chance it has by having anchors so that you go to bed around the same time every evening and you have your wind down towards that time and that you wake up around the same time in the morning and you have your morning rituals or routines because that's how our body likes to to stay and trained is we want routine and where we go here and there

and stay up late or linger in bed or or push it off or think that downtown abbey is going to give us more peace than sleep. We've got it wrong a little bit. And of course, a lot of us probably can relate to, I haven't had a minute, I just want to watch the delegate for an hour or something. And then we sacrifice, we push it off and sleep,

we know we need it. We need to plug in, we need to offload, we need to wash our brain. Mother nature knows best we cannot do without sleep. And everything is easier. when we do get it. Okay, can I just ask you then?

Yeah. Why do we, maybe the question is, why do we do that? Why do we feel like why do we stay up and watch these shows? I did it last night, right? Like, last week it was richer. It's more. Like, as you've worked your brain all day, you are now getting to the most vulnerable hours.

where that clever part of your decision-making brain is the weakest. So our impulse control is going to take charge. That's when people are going to reach for the crisps or they're going to raid for their ice creams. And they're not going to keep a clear mind to think, oh, yeah, I've heard that sleep is important. Not only for how I look, how I feel, how my skin, how my brain, how I learn, how I recall, my patience, my emotional regulation, my every single organ in our Alzheimer's cancer, sleep is so important. But out it goes because so sleepy by the end of the day, decision making is harder. And so we need to know the plan. A lot of grownups don't have a bedtime.

They just go with it. But we want a bedtime. We want to think, okay, I'm aiming. If I want to try and have the opportunity for seven to nine hours, what would that mean I have to do, when would I have to get into bed or aim to get into bed in order to have it? Because if I'm going to bed at one o'clock and then I wake up at 6.30, there's no possible way I've given myself even the opportunity to get enough sleep. So we've got to reverse engineer it and think sleep matters. It's not scaremongering, but we just want it to naturally assist us. So we don't

want to be so scared of it that then that becomes the problem. I must sleep. I have to sleep if I don't sleep X, Y, Z, which is very prevalent in insomnia thinking. But we want to preserve it. We want to protect it. And then we want to keep that routine. And when life does happen, it happens. But we've got then more resilience, more resources. And when we can, we want to return to those things that we know work. Yeah. Well, a lot easier said than done. Like I know Atlanta, you have your nighttime edit and you have something for like waking up at three o'clock in the morning. And when Dr. Beverly said, on guard, like our bodies are wired to be on guard. And that part is interrupting our sleep. Because I feel like everything in my life is a crisis, even when it's not really a

crisis. What is the feedback you're getting when it comes to why we're not sleeping at night or why we think we're not getting the sleep that we need. I get the routine, but what's happening with us in terms of like why we think this is happening to us? Yeah. So, I mean, a tired brain is going to, similar to what Dr. B said, a tired brain is going to increase your fear. It's going to increase that urgency, that that problem, that that thing that's weighing on your brain has to be solved in that moment. So something, you know, going back to your first question, what are you doing for stress and what do I mean I work primarily with midlife women and women going through divorce yeah so setting back and for someone who is in midlife and has gone through a divorce I'm in that that stage

um it's important to I always say nighttime is for regulation daytime is for strategy so what we tend to do at night time is exactly what dr. B was saying you know a tired brain is going to you know flight or flight or fright. I can't say it right now. Did you sleep last night? Did you sleep last night? Well, this is why I'm like way to hit me right in the morning because I'm coming off of a very stressful week. So I can talk about what I've worked on. Let's talk about that and what I get at yeah. That's that's that's that's it right? Because yeah, even Sharon here is like I'm thankful. I'm retired. I have a bedtime and go to sleep routinely. Unfortunately, I wake up with three or four for one and a half hours. Like we all, yeah. We all go through it. We all go through. Um,

I've been really working on very hard is setting boundaries, learning to let stuff go. You know, I always have this conversation. Yes, we need to focus on the nighttime stuff, the bedtime routine and all of that. But I focus a lot on what we do throughout the day. And that's what help us. What we do at 3 p.m. is going to help us at 3 a.m. So setting the boundaries, learning to let go, incorporating more joy into your life.

So in terms of setting the boundaries, again, I'll use divorce as an example because a lot of my clients are women going through divorce. So setting boundaries on communication with your ex, communication with your lawyer. For someone not going through divorce, it could be setting boundaries on a co-worker, setting boundaries on a toxic family member or friend. How many times are we waking up at 3 a.m. and going through the what ifs? What if I had said this? What if I had done this?

You know, what if this situation happened instead of this situation? Learning to let stuff grow and understanding that you can only control your world. You can only control your thoughts, your words, your behaviors. You can't control what else is going on in the world. So understanding, that's something that I've worked very hard on. Yeah, how do you let it go? How do you let it go? Like, how do you do that?

How do you, can we actually like, Dr. B? You have to know that you're going to try something new. And you have to have a buy-in to think, okay, our brain can play a movie and the movie might be the Titanic and you might know what's going to happen at the end of that movie and so I know

I know in my temperament and my personality I'm a ruminator I know that I get it honestly from my dad okay so if I know that and then I can name it and think oh oh I'm in the rumination I'm in the should have could have would have what it, I know it.

I know how that movie's going to play out. And then I've planned to try something different. So it's very cognitive behavioural therapy. It's trying to think, okay, I want to stop that movie. I might think about that movie tomorrow instead. I'm going to check it. So that would be the catch it, cancel it it, correct it. I'm going to catch it.

I'm going to notice my thinking has gone there. I'm going to pause and I'm going to say, Beverly and Ilana and Gina say it's not the time to do this. You know, churning on this idea at 2am is probably not going to help. I'm going to write it down on the piece of paper and I'm going to address it tomorrow. Just like my granny said in the morning everything looks brighter. The problem is so much easier to solve. But you've got to notice your styles. You've got to think, am I a black and white thinker? Am I a catastrophizer? Am I a ruminator? And when you catch it and name it,

you name it to tame it. Your brain goes, oh, you're in the swirl. You're in the self-doubt. What if I could practice, because it's hard to do it, so you're not going to get it right every time. What if I could practice to press the pause and see if I can just think about something else. Go to my happy place in my memory. That's Wales for me. Could I do a meditation? Could I read some of my book? Could I listen to an audio book so that you're disrupting the normal pattern of I'm going now ruminate about that thing I gave away until the lark starts to sing in the morning? So you're practicing, but you've got to be patient because practice requires time and you get better and better at it. And the next time you're like, hey, that actually worked a little bit. I'm going to do it

again, instead of lying in bed worrying, I'm going to get up. I'm going to get up and I'm going to go read my book in the other room. And lo and behold, maybe sleepy finds you again. And that gives you evidence, huh, I'm going to try that the next time. And so we get more courageous and confident with our sleep and our ability to disrupt our stressful patterns, the way we think. we are uh that it's so brilliant because we are talking food noise we're talking food noise this week and you're talking about ruminating in that movie playing out like we know how this ends for most people trying to lose weight we know how it ends we lose the weight and then we get it back and that just creates all this fear and self-doubt and all of the food noise we were talking about it's not

just what should I eat what shouldn't eat what I do that all of the guilt all the shame it's also I got to make the food I got to go to the grocery store and it's just consuming all of the time. And so you have to be intentional about breaking that. And have your replacement. Like even the idea of letting your brain hear, what if this all works out? Yeah.

Like just to have that accessible, what if this all works out? Yeah. That's the alternative to this isn't going to work. I'm not going to get that thing. I'm probably going to fail in week. four, but what if it all works out? We want to plant intention because what we say in our unconscious and our mind is what happens. Yeah. You have to plant the direction you want to go in.

Like, is that a manifesting thing? Dr. Biers, like this is a psychology thing. Like, you know, it's shifting the mindset, which takes time and doesn't happen instantly. Yeah. So for me, when I started doing, my brain was like doing this thing where it was like on all the time the last couple weeks. And I came up with this word beautiful. I don't know why. And I was like, whenever I feel my mind doing that, I just say this word and it immediately just stops the loop. And it might come back two seconds later and then I say it again. And for some reason, that's working for me. What, Atlanta, what do you do? You, you got a lot going on. You got a lot of emotions tied up in, in your own personal life. What do you do to start the ruminating? the black and white, the catastrophizing.

What do you do? Well, you know, I mentioned this on the last time we were on live. I talked about finding your giraffe. And I'm telling you, your community reached out to me so much. It really hit home with a lot of people. And it's finding that one small moment of like your word beautiful. For me, it's the image of a giraffe. And what I mean by that is when I'm swirlic, because I'm like you, Dr. B,

I'm a ruminator. I can get lost in my thoughts for weeks on end. Or I chase cars like a dog. Yeah. Yeah. So if I see that one little, for me, it's when I see that giraffe, that is my brain telling me that things are okay. I'm recognizing that giraffe and it's taking me away from that thought that, you know,

the world is coming to an end. I'm going to fail. The world is awful. And it could just be a split second. But that is your body's way of. building your resilience. That is your body's way of allowing in joy when things are really hard. Happiness and sadness are hard to coexist, right? Because they're both feelings. But you can incorporate little moments of joy. And for me, it's finding that drop. It's seeing that draught for

you. It's saying that word beautiful. While you're experiencing grief, trauma, anger, sadness. It's allowing you to regulate your nervous system, regulate yourself in that moment to then build resilience. So for when that next thing gets thrown in your face, you can handle it a little bit better. Yeah. You know, I've been thinking about when you brought up grief and or, you know, someone wanting to, they want to be successful at weight loss, but they also just don't, can't stomach losing weight again. And then they end up gaining again. And then they sometimes sabotage. And it's like we want to keep ourselves stuck. to feel, to validate those, those feelings, especially grief. I find people want to just continue to

grieve so they can be sad to be like, this, I am so sad. And then physically their body, like, is affected. And then they get really stuck there. How do we get, how do we pull ourselves out of those, how do we pull ourselves out of those moments or this loop and this cycle when it comes to losing weight of knowing what you need to do, but not doing it? I was just talking about this Monday. Mondays are busiest day in the group and people are always like, this isn't working for me. But we know full well, they probably didn't get sleep on the weekend. They were up late. They drank. They ate, whatever. Why do we do this? Who wants to go first? I do think. Dr. Beverly's working on an acronym. So if you want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll jump in

and let her work on that. I mean, at the end of the day, it is a choice. So I can speak to this as Olivia member because I'm week three going strong. It is a choice that you have to make allowing. So I'll go back to joy because it's something that I talk a lot about with my clients. Feeling joy is a choice. You know, grief, sadness, happiness are feelings that, you know, flutter in and out of our lives. But it all comes down to making that choice and then creating that plan very much of what Dr. B said. It's not, you know, I can just say let it go, feel joy, do all these things. It's not just like that. These are things that you have to intentionally take the steps and create the plan to do it. I'll come in with the acronym.

It's a very, very complicated question because we are who we are because of so many collisions of experiences and our genetics and our epigenetics. and if somebody is noticing that they continuously stand in their own way, or if they're noticing, you know, if somebody's coming to see me privately, I'm going to be looking for patterns of when has this happened before? Where did it come from? And beyond that, I'm looking at who influenced you in the first place. Sometimes we don't even know who influenced us. But how early do you? do we remember this happening where we signed up for something and then we didn't manage it and we didn't carry on? Or did somebody tell you, oh, what's the point in do in French? You won't pass anyway. Like, where did we build our idea of challenge or progress or having a goal? Is having a goal deemed a negative in some families? You know, why would you want to change? You know, why are you on this journey, you know, because some people don't like it. So we want to take time to think, okay,

where are my influences? What was my... Did she freeze? I know, is that me? I was looking at you. I was like as anyone else. I love it's us or what is going on with the internet lately. It's like crazy. I have a quiet word with ourselves. There she is. Oh, here I am. Okay, you're bad. Did it all go off? Yeah, we didn't hear a fucking word just said. You did. You did it.

Did it. It was brilliant. It was brilliant. It was brilliant. That was the answer. It's basically going back to your story, okay? Because whenever I'm doing a psychological formulation, there's five piece. What are you presenting with?

You're presenting with, you want something, but you can't get there. Or you want something and you think. you're sabotaging. Now, sabotage is a delicate conversation because most people don't mean to not do the thing they want to do. Of course. Yeah. We're presenting with something. I go back then to your predisposing factors. Who are you? What were you like when you were little? Was there a time that you believed in yourself and you had self-esteem and autonomy and confidence and fear of nothing and you could just happily fail and get up again? Like, What are your predisposing influences, your parents, your grandparents, your siblings, your schooling, your community, your religion maybe?

Who told you could or you can't do things? Are you told you shouldn't change? This is your, you know, this is it. Fix mindset. You've got what you got. You know, get what you get. You don't get upset. So what were your early stories? Then precipitating factors, what happened just before things? Maybe you were about to enraud. role in something and life happened and it just knocked the wind out of you. What if you were about to, you know, move to a new life and then something awful happened? So go back to think, what happened just before? And did that then change the course of your decisions in life and psychology? And then the fourth P is the perpetuating cycle.

Your thoughts, your emotions, your behaviour and your body. How are you now trapped in this? because something might have happened a long time ago, like our sleep, a lot of people will come to me and say, my sleep disappeared when my youngest was born, and when was your youngest born 40 years ago? And you're like, hmm, okay, so what's going on? You know, what's the cycle that is keeping this going?

So then we address that, the thoughts, the feelings, the behavior and the body, we break that up. And then finally, your fifth P, your protective factors, what have you already got in your back pocket? Like Alana said, when have you learned that you have resilience and resourcefulness, life is going to happen to all of us, divorce, death, birth perhaps, moves, injury, all sorts of things are going to happen. Go back and see, how did I manage that?

I am impressive. I pivoted. I made a decision. I was brave and bold. And sometimes it does work and sometimes it doesn't work. that's what the chapters are like. Our novel is not finished. We are just building these chapters.

So that's what I look at when I think, why, who are we? Why does it happen? And how can I break this pattern and believe that I can? And maybe you think about a person that inspires you or somebody that you think, I want to decide to change my spectacles

and see the world through a new lens. I want to be positive. I want to believe in the what if this works out? Because what's the alternative? Yeah. I think of it as like rose-colored glasses, right? Are you the person who wears the rose-colored glasses? Are you the person that's wearing the sunglasses?

Yeah. Are you the person sitting in the Michelin five-star restaurant thinking the air conditioner is too cold and, you know, it's too noisy? Or are you the person grateful of the experience you're about to receive and the delicious food that's in front of your face? But that takes, it takes work. And that's something that I've been working very hard, going back to the very first question, that's something that I've worked very hard on myself and checking myself. Every time I get into exactly all the stages that Dr. B just said, when I'm falling down those stages, it's checking myself and saying, okay, what color, just something simple,

what color glasses am I wearing right now? Beautiful. A lot of times the sunglasses, you know? Choosing your thoughts. It's like a practice. And like that's like the living method, these things that we're doing is just to practice you to get more in tune with yourself, to better understand yourself, to give you the tools, the skills you need to actually make change. We are meant to change. We had to be

really intentional about it. And you have to make change to see change. I want to get into some practical stuff. I know, Elena, so you, you know, you started out in sleep and you had a huge passion for that. Then you're layered on stress because you understand how they're very symbiotic. And now, you know, with divorce and just what would women in midlife go through? What are the mistakes like that we're making? Like, what are the big ones that you're like, if I could tell women to knock it off with three things, no matter how hard that is, but it would be a game changer? What would that be?

Number one, alcohol. And I hate saying this because I know. I'm sorry, but it affects your sleep huge, especially for menopausal women. Um, as you know, you know, alcohol doesn't, you know, affect our body, it affects our body differently than it once did. And I think it's probably one of the biggest sleep busters in that age group. Doesn't say you have to cut it out completely, but know your body. Right. Yeah. If you're, if you're having that glass of red or white at dinner and not sleeping well, well, then you know. So I say alcohol is a huge one. Um, again, going back to a lot of what you do throughout the day can help you sleep better at night. So moving, your body, making sure you're getting in that physical activity that think of your sleep drive as a gas tank, right? Moving your body throughout the day is going to put gas. We want to fill our sleep tank so it's nice and full at night. So moving your body, it doesn't have to be a marathon, a jog, a hit class. It just could be a simple walk. Well, this is, sorry, this is where we think exercise.

We have to burn the calories off from exercising to lose weight when the best thing you can do to move your body is to help with your sleep, which will help with your fat loss. But yeah, so, sorry. In my opinion, sleep is that I'm sure Dr. B agrees with me on this is not just because this is what we do, but sleep is really the foundation of all the pillars. Yeah. Sleep is very finicky. So whenever any other pillar is off, sleep is affected. Yeah. But without proper sleep, all the pillars are affected, right? Nutrition, movement, connection. So filling that gas tank with physical activity throughout the day, focusing on managing your stress throughout the day. So Dr. B mentioned, mentioned as well, it's something that I work a lot with my client. So conducting what I call a personal pause,

stressing the fuck out throughout the day. You know, I like to talk about that. Constructively, choosing one problem to slowly work on throughout the day. You don't have to solve it in that moment, but start taking at least one or two steps to start quieting the mind a little bit of that problem throughout the day. That's a huge lesson that I go through with my clients. And lastly, I'm going to go down to just something as simple as sleep environment, especially in the season we're now, whenever there's a seasonal change, this is when we need to be focusing on our environment and what do we need to change in terms of betting? Do we need to clear the clutter out a little bit? All of those things. So alcohol, daytime strategy, and sleep

environment are my three things. I want to ask you about magnesium and supplements, but first, because I see Dr. But Dr. B, Dr. B writing down there. But do you keep family photos in your bedroom? I'm terrible. I don't have hardly any of my house. I'm insane. I don't either. I'm like a thrifted. It's because of it ruminators because I can't decide which ones to put. Yeah. And I just don't do it. I'm like, oh, if I commit to that photo, what about that photo and now Leo's 15 and I haven't got any photos up. But here is one little tip that I've actually given clients in the past. If you're going through a very hard time in your life, again, I work primarily with divorced

women. Put a picture of you in your bedroom of a very happy moment in your life. Yeah. We all have that one picture where we're feeling that joy. We're feeling that happiness. We're in a good place in our life. Why can't we put a picture of ourselves in our bedroom, right? So when you're feeling down, when you're thinking your world is crashing, you can look

that picture and say, I've been there. I've been to that place and I can get to that place again. It's a little motivator. Okay. Depends on what's triggering you. Like if there's a family photo and you got a kid that's making you crazy or whatever's going on, you're just going to make your money. Just of you. Just of you. Yeah. Got it. All right, Dr. B, what do you want to add? I do want to ask you about supplements or like a couple things before we go real quick. But Dr. B, what are you going to add? What? Three things, like what to do. Okay. Or what not to do. Not or what to do. Give me both. Give me all. Give me what to do. It's the same but different, isn't it? Okay. So if I'm, if I'm basing it on cognitive behavioral

therapy for insomnia, the fact, the foundations to the gold standard treatment, we have three things we have to address. So our behavior, which includes trying to match our time in bed with the time we're sleeping. So we want people to look out for if they're getting into bed too early and they're lying, they're awake. If they're lying in bed awake very much during the night, that's after sleep onset and they wake up and they lay there. And if they then wake up in the morning and they linger. So we're trying to improve our sleep efficiency, which is our total sleep time divided by our time in bed, and that's that percentage. So we want to build up the relationship between sleep and bed. If we are worrying in bed and worrying in bed and worrying in bed,

we're going to get really good. What about crying in bed? Can we cry in bed? It's like me crying in the shower when I was younger. It's a conditioner. You know, we then... When you were younger, I did it like last week. Last night. It's the place we all go, isn't it? It's like, no one or know I'm crying. What about, what about scrolling on your phone in bed? I'm going to. could imagine is really not. Don't do it. I had to make a decision last night. I was like, I am so sleepy and I know I will lose maybe an hour if I go down this rabbit hole. Just nobody ever regrets getting to sleep earlier. We all regret Instagramming for an hour. Okay. We all regret. Why did I do that? Okay. So number one, match the time that you're in bed with the time that you're asleep. That means getting up and

out of bed if you're not sleeping. Having a nice place, nice and cozy, do whatever you want, but just don't be trying to sleep in bed. Two, it would address the cognitions that thought and fear around sleep. I have to get sleep. I won't function tomorrow. I've heard all these bad things about it. We have to address that and we have to let ourselves know. We can do it. We can do it when we're tired. Will we be our best? Probably not. But we've done it. We've got through it. we've managed it, but we don't want to bring that fear of sleep into our thoughts. Because as soon as we wait in the middle of the night, which is very common, sleep is not static. We're not in a coma.

We're going to come in and out of sleep stages. We just don't want to worry. We want to think my body's resting. I'm in a cozy bed. I don't want people going, that's it. I'm doomed. Yeah. It's a rousal.

It's one more thing we're failing at. Exactly. I'm trying to get fucking sleep right, you know, like. Yeah, that thing. And then third arousal, we want to absolutely be watching for the effort to sleep. People put too much effort into it, and you've heard me say it before, never try to sleep. Paradoxical intention is lay in bed and try and stay awake for as long as possible. And that change in the instruction allows performance anxiety to move away and sleep will often come and get you.

So we want to be mindful that we don't want to be trying to sleep. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. We're just stressing ourselves out as we sleep. A couple things I found to be a game changer. You know, I'm a big fan of magnesium because we need magnesium and we're depleted. I like the citrate or bisglycinated. I want to know your thoughts on magnesium.

Or people in the comments do. I know it works, but they want to hear it from you. Or maybe you have a difference of opinion or there's something better. Also, earplugs for me, major game change. like I got those loop ones. Like they're actually quite small. They fit in an eye mask. Also a mouth guard.

But I find like that for me has been a big game changer. What are your like must have sleep essentials? And do you take magnesium? So I do take magnesium. I'm not a huge. I'll be honest. I'm not a big sleep tool pusher. But the one things that I personally need are I do need quiet.

So I used to wear ear plugs. Thanks, God, my boyfriend now got diagnosed with sleep apnea. I'm terrible. Thank God he did. He has severe sleep apnea. But CPAT machine. No, I can be, yeah. Game changer for his sleep.

Game changer for my sleep. Wow. 100%. I need a cool environment. So betting for me is a big one in terms of what we sleep on and sleep with. You know, I always say your side of the bed should be customized to you. So we have different, you know, pillowcases. He likes the linen.

I like the silk. Like I need cool on my body. Those are big ones for me. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Love that. Have you tried those loose-ome pajamas?

No, but you and I were talking about that. Yeah, I'm going to hook you up. I'm going to get some of jimsy. I'm not. I'll be honest. I'm not a big underwear at bed. No, there was I, but these ones? Okay.

Okay. I don't know what it is. And they've been around for like 16 years. So it's not like some weird gimmicky thing. Right. Trying to capitalize on menopause. women. Right. Interesting. And they have sheets too. Yeah. Sheets for me are very important. Yeah. Right. Okay. And for the sake of time, I digress. Dr. B. What are your three like must haves?

Well, again, if I am talking like a sleep doctor, you do need it to be very cool. Okay. You need the bedroom to be nice and cold, 18.5 degrees. Because to fall into sleep, your body needs to lower. and it lowers a very tiny amount that you might not know, but that allows you to hibernate and fall asleep. Reverse that in the morning you want to warm up. Okay, so if your bedroom or your partner or your dog, whatever's going on in your bedroom is warming you up too much, that may disrupt your sleep. And we all know that with our peri-menopause as well, that that can be a big contributing factor. So keep the bedroom cool. Don't linger in bed before you go to bed too long because you're going to warm it up. So have a bath or a shower if you want because the clever paradox with that is you've been

warmed in the shot the water and it cools your body off really quickly when you come out. So it sets you up for a nice sleep. Darkness is very important. Okay. We're supposed to allow our eyes to notice the dark. So start turning off things in the mid-evening so that you're messaging that beautiful brain, night is approaching. Okay. We've all had people come and be busy. We're with our babies and over-stimulate them. So we're trying to just slowly invite us to land nicely at that stop sign instead of expecting ourselves to slam on the brakes and fall to sleep. I didn't catch that.

Could you try again? Something's telling me it didn't catch it. Siri must be listening. I thought that was Gina Evers. I know. I did too. I was like, I didn't kick that. Does she have an accent?

She English? She British? It must know I'm British. Clever, Siri. And then what else would, so dark, so cold, dark. And yes, sound can be a thing because, of course, when we're hearing noises, our brain is going to wake up. So if we can have it quiet, that would be great.

I stop listening. I stopped listening, but I'm sure it was brilliant. Magnesium. Magnesium is interesting. There's not very favourable research about magnesium. What? And but, but if, if, if, if, If something calms you down and relaxes you and invites you into a relaxed state or the ritual of doing it,

now be careful because some people's ritual is a hot toddy and it's alcohol. So I want to just be thinking, is there anything in this that's going to disrupt my sleep, which alcohol would, coffee would, hot chocolate would. But if magnesium is not going to disrupt, then if it invites that hypnagogic, soporific, gentle feeling, then okay. But it's- hypnophic, saginopic? Say that again.

I would use that. Hypnagogic is where you're going into a nice, sleepy stage. Your eyes might be dropping. And soporific is just, yeah, all those nice feelings. Well, listen, magnesium is not a sleep aid. It's like if you took magnesium during the day, it's not going to help you sleep. It helps for other reasons, which is, you know,

I love taking my magnesium. at night. Okay, we got to go. Oh, gosh, this was so great. But you're going to be joining me at the National Menopause show on Saturday. We're on stage, the big stage at 1130. If anyone wants to come, you can go to National Menopause show, grab some tickets. You can use the code Livy 26 to save. And the ladies, I mean, Atlanta, you've been doing the TV circuit. Everyone's saying how they saw you here, there, and everywhere. Both of you have your own offerings that you're doing. We're going to put a link to your website, how to reach you. Do you have anything like that as of urgency, like next week you're starting something that people need to know? Well, this was basically,

I started yesterday. Sorry, Alan. I started yesterday because I got the date wrong. Oh. So my sleep group started yesterday, but never fear. Write to me on my website and you can be, we can either set you up for the next sleep group or if I, it's, I have so much interest. I'll just redo week one. enjoy. Okay, Your PsychologyCenter.C.A. Atlanta? I am getting ready to launch some divorce sleep programs for kids. So helping parents, one parent, help their kids sleep better, but also manage two different households. And so there's a bit for the parent and then there's a bit for the kid too. So that will be launching on my website, either Atlanta, McGinn.com, or even goodnight sleep site.com very soon. So I'm excited about it. That's a good idea. Isn't it? Yeah.

You know, again, working with my clients, it's all about the parallel parenting, the co-parenting, like that becomes the obstacle, right, with the different bedtime routines, all of that. So that's what's coming out soon. So disruptive. Kids are so accepting, but at the same time, that would be very disruptive in trying to, oh, my gosh. I think there was something that, because you're like a neutral party, that then if both people see the benefit, instead of if it is animosity, you know, if there is animosity, somebody might be like, you can't tell me what time to put them there.

What do you do when that is the case? And unfortunately, that's what I see more of, right? So it's, again, that's where there's some for the parent who's going through that. So they can sleep better and then some for the kid. Yeah. I love that. Terry Daly, Terry just mentioned here, Dr. B's sleep program is amazing. Help me get off sleep aids in 2020.

Oh, yeah. There's so much we could talk about and have talked about, right? We've talked about shift work. We have all sorts of tips on actually things that you can do during the day. So we're going to link all those segments because, I mean, we've talked for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on so many things. So many things. Okay, we've got to go. Thanks, everyone joining us live or watching or listening after the fact.

Thanks, ladies. I'm so appreciative of you spending your time and being so open and sharing. I will add where you guys can reach out if you're interested in learning more. Have a great day, everyone. We'll see you next time. Bye. Thanks, ladies.