The Livy Method Podcast - Food Addiction and Weight Loss with Sandra Elia - Fall 2025

Episode Date: September 24, 2025

In this episode, Gina is joined by food addiction counsellor and Obesity Matters Chair, Sandra Elia, for a powerful conversation that unpacks the emotional complexity behind why we eat the things, especially when we know they don’t make us feel good. Speaking live from New York City, where she’s attending the United Nations General Assembly, Sandra shares fresh insights from global leaders tackling the obesity epidemic and sheds light on the darker side of ultra-processed foods. From redefining what addiction to food really looks like, to challenging diet culture myths and advocating for systemic change, this episode goes beyond surface-level advice—offering real talk and real hope for those who’ve struggled to find peace with food.You can find the full video hosted at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodfall2025Sandra is the founder of The Food Addiction Recovery Program and the author of "Never Enough: Three Pillars of Food Addiction Recovery".Find Sandra Elia:Instagram: @sandraelia.cawww.sandraelia.comFind her book, Never Enough, on Amazon:https://www.amazon.ca/Never-Enough-Pillars-Addiction-Recovery/dp/1990700187/To learn more about The Livy Method, visit livymethod.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy, and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams for my 91-day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews, and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on ACAST, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple, and Amazon Music.

We're focusing on sustainable habits, not quick-fixing. Is it an opportunity to get curious? We're here to help people get to their health goals. One piece of time. You build and build and build. Why is it so hard sometimes to not eat the things? Why do we feel so bad when we eat the things? Why is it all so complicated, especially when we're stressed?

Is it because we're triggered? Is it habit? Or is it food addiction? That's the question. Here to help us walk us through this is the incredible Sandra Alia. She's a food addiction counselor. She's also the author of the book, Never Enough. She's also joining us live from New York.

Hello, hi. I love that. Live from New York City. Oh, my God. It's such a great time to be. be in New York City this week. I have the great honor of attending the United Nations

General Assembly. But even more than that, I am the chair of Obesity Matters and we have been nominated for an award. I get a little emotional when I think about that. We've been shortlisted. We have a seat at

the award ceremony, but we will find out tomorrow night. So I'll announce it to, on your Facebook page, if we are lucky enough to win. Last night I attended the global obesity forum, and we heard from leaders across the world because the obesity epidemic is staggering, and it's hitting our children. It is the first time in history that we have children living with obesity more than children who are malnourished. And there's only two places left on our planet that obesity is not an issue.

in one part of Africa, South Terrain Africa and South Asia. That's it. That's it. That has not been impacted by obesity. And they did not mince their words last night. The finger was squarely pointed at the food industry, ultra-processed foods. And, you know, I was telling Gina just before we started, you know, Canadians were so politically correct and we just are so careful with our words.

Well, I'm going to tell you that we heard from Mexico. in Egypt and the Philippines, and they were not mincing their words. They were very clear. And UNICEF put out a report. I took a picture, feeding profit. This is what they called it, feeding profit, how the food environment are failing our children. And they're beginning to understand that we are at the mercy of companies that have deep pockets. And somehow in North America, you know, Jean and I have attended obesity conferences.

I attend one in the U.S., one in Canada, one in Europe, and there's never discussion about nutrition. There's never discussion about food, which just doesn't it boggle your mind? Well, last night, when we had everyone around the world at the table, they blew those doors open and they said, we have to make changes. And they came up with three main changes. The first one is proper labeling on food. So in Spain, they give their foods a grade from. A to F. And that way as a consumer, because, you know, in Canada, we'll pick up a cereal. Fortified with protein, fortified with vitamin C. And we think, oh, I should give this to my child.

It could say that and still get an F rating so that we can consciously choose which products that we want. The second, make healthy food affordable. Many families don't have the option to buy healthy food. And the last one, safe environments for movement, for exercise. You know, it's, I live in a very walkable neighborhood. Yeah, but more and more, like when I think about my daughter's cousins who live in the burbs, they can't walk anywhere. They don't even have sidewalks. These new subdivisions don't have a sidewalk.

So how are they supposed to safely walk? But as you can tell, my energy is like way up there so excited. I haven't even let you say anything yet. You listen, I adore you and I love your passion. You walk the walk. You talk the talk. You are a champion, you know, whether it's worth in working with the Canadian Obesity Society or Obesity Matters. I mean, you truly have a passion.

And I think that's, it's coming through today. And if you want to hear more from Sandra, we've had an opportunity to talk to her a few times. And she has shared her story and why she has a passion in previous episodes. So if you want to go to our podcast and search Sandra, it'll pull up all the episodes that we've had with her. Oh, my goodness. Each one has been absolutely brilliant. in you were talking though about how people were talking about processed foods and we're talking food addiction today and that plays a role and people think they just don't have willpower

or whatever there there is it is it right to say that food is made with addictive qualities to it yes very much so so what we have now are chemically engineered foods these are foods that are made in factories they're nutrient poor they cause disease we have the research to prove that and they're highly addicted for some people and so the best analogy i can give you is with alcoholism so there are many people who can enjoy a glass of wine and savor it and be fine that's not true for someone with alcoholism and so the food addict looks to food not i i don't even call it eating food we use food i use food to which is feeling so i use food to numb I use food to escape. I use food for comfort. I use food when I have emotions that overwhelm me.

When I have a situation in my life that I don't even know how to deal with, I just keep eating. And the more I reflect on my own life, the more that I realize I use food when I misaligned with my soul's purpose, when I misaligned with my inner wisdom. So any time I was in a relationship that I knew, I had the gut feel. This is wrong. This is not for you. And I didn't want to deal with it. I would just eat and eat me.

And then I wouldn't hear that voice anymore. It would quiet. Or when I was in an extremely codependent relationship with my mom thinking, but I'm being a good daughter and I'm just trying to save her and she's so sick. And that voice inside me was saying, you're killing yourself. You're enabling her. This is not going to end well. I didn't want to deal with that.

So I would binge eat and binge it and binge me and the voice would be silent. So it's an interesting way because I remember in my 20s when I was seeking treatment and I was a candidate for bariatric surgery. And at that time, they describe it very differently now. So this was 27 years ago. They would say, you know, the doctor said, look, Sandra, your stomach's going to become the size of a shot glass. You're just not going to be able to eat the way you used to. You won't feel hungry. And I said to him, oh, I don't eat because I'm hungry.

That's never been my problem. I eat because I'm upset and I'm emotional. And it's my comfort. And at that time, he didn't even know what to answer me. He just thought, oh, that's odd, right? And so I knew bariatric surgery for me was not an option. It is a life-saving surgery for many people. And it's interesting today we have research to show that people who score high on the Yale

food addiction score and then have bariatric surgery, have poorer outcomes. That's what the research shows now. So I knew that intuitively. What about GLP-1s now? I don't want to, I mean, we're going to have other conversations specifically about that. But when you say that, because people talk about GLP-1s helping with that food noise. 100%. So GLP-1s helps with food noise, cravings, feeling more satiated with our food.

Now, of course, my community are community of people who live with food addiction. It's not the full answer, right? Because they are still searching for something. So I'll give you any comparison because we have more data on it. People who go through bariatric surgery who can no longer use food will turn to alcohol. This is very well known. Why? Because they can't eat to self-sooth, but they can drink to self-sooth.

So that is a thing that now they have to look for. And so with the GLP ones, so what's interesting about GL-1s is the early research is showing that it's helping with addiction. So we don't see that same sort of like, oh, now I think I'll drink. it's a it's a whole new world it's an exciting world we are finally at a place where we have safe effective medicine but it is not the silver bullet you if you're on a glp1 you need to have a full village of support around you to help you and that's why the gina liby program is a perfect compliment to that you cannot the shot it is never the silver bullet it never will be right to think It would be naive, just like antidepressants.

There's many people who need to be on an antidepressant, but they know it's not the silver bullet. They still need fresh air. They still need community. They still need their counselor. They still need to eat whole foods because it's good for their mental health. It's one piece of the puzzle. And everybody should have that piece. Like if you, you know, that's a lot of my advocacy work because those medicines are out of reach for people.

Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. We're not here to convince anyone or say the answer to food addiction is LP1, I just popped up in conversation. So I thought I would ask, you mentioned something that was, it could be a bit of an aha moment. Food addiction is about using food. But it is complicated because, yes, we use food to self-soothe and cope

and when we're stressed and we're triggered and whatnot. But we also use it to celebrate, to bond with people, to show love. And we actually need it to survive. So how do we recognize if we have a, Is it a true food addiction? Are there various levels of a food addiction? How would someone recognize that? Yeah.

So there are, we can look to the DSM for substance dependence disorder. And they have a bunch of criteria that often follows. So things like withdrawal. So if you try to get off what we call trigger foods, foods that you obsess about, once you start, it's hard to have a reasonable portion, lead to overeating episodes. Think potato chips. Think sugar. If you try to go cold turkey, do you experience withdrawal? Are you irritable? Do you have headaches? Like a lot of people with soda tell me the withdrawal is horrible. We also look at persistent attempts at cutting down. That's called yo-yo dieting, going after one crazy diet, restrictive diet, after another restrictive diet. And then one of the hallmarks of addiction is that you have consequences from your eating and your weight that you desperately do not want. And yet you cannot stop.

stop. So that is the hallmark of it. And here for people listening to me, yes, I agree with you. You should love your food. It should be in celebration. It should be as an act of love. But for the food addict, and if you're listening, your food addict, you'll hear me. What is your intention with eating this food? So if somebody tells me, my intention is that it's Thanksgiving and I want to be surrounded by people I love and I want to enjoy and feed very different from. it's Friday night I don't like where my life has ended up I feel so alone in the world I feel misunderstood and I hate myself and then I eat totally different intentions yeah yeah yeah well how do we so you know a lot of people because here we are Sandra as you know right people are aware of

the choices that they're making they're waking up they are trying to be hydrated have their breakfast with protein, balanced meals, their snacks, their lunch, their afternoon snacks, their dinner, they're feeling really great, and then nighttime comes, and they have a really hard time, whether that is habit or they saw something on TV triggered or had a stressful day, incredibly difficult. And, you know, our bodies really need that time without food to especially focus on fat loss. And because we need that deep sleep where our body repairs and rebuilds, it makes such a big difference in yet is one of the hardest things for people to do so can you walk us through that

why that might be happening how to recognize it what and give us some some coping mechanisms or skills that we can start implementing to try to address it and and your honest thoughts about it too because it yeah well I can tell you right now this is the number one thing people who struggle with food addiction or compulsive eating or weight is night time So you are not alone, okay? This is the number one struggle. And there's some ideas around this. So we have a frontal lobe.

We have the cavewoman man brain. So the frontal lobe, great decision, sees into the future, knows like you're on this podcast. It's morning. Yes, I want the day to go well. Then this gets tired, right? So by 7 o'clock, you've actually made hundreds of decisions. Blue socks, red socks, turn left, go get this, make this first. and it shuts down.

And then you're left with the cave brain or the lizard brain. That brain is always scanning the terrain for food. The only reason you and I are sitting here is because our ancestors were excellent at hunters and gatherers and aren't those genes perpetuated. So that part of the brain always scanning, thinking, looking, and its job is to eat when it finds food because 100 years ago, if you didn't eat when you found food, you might die, right? Because you might not find it for another, you know, 50 kilometers. so there's that piece. Now, if nighttime eating is a big issue for you, it is going to require

a lot of your time and attention at the beginning because we need to start to re-program your mind. So a couple of things. Nighttime eating may have become a habit. It may be your ritual. And so you need to replace one ritual with another ritual. So when is that ritual going to be? I personally love, as soon as that little thought goes into my head, oh, it would be nice, and maybe I didn't have enough, is a tea ritual. So don't knock it until you try it, but I want you to make this an act of self-love, beautiful teacups, a beautiful arrangement of decaffeinated tea, not caffeinated, because you're to screw yourself out of a night of sleep.

I've got a throfter, so I throft sugar-free almond milk, cinnamon. I just make a production of it. it's sort of like when people stop smoking one of the hardest things for them is not only the nicotine withdrawal but the whole but i got to go outside and then i got to light the cigarette i was a social smoker don't hold it again and but it was the whole ritual right and i got to talk to people and i watched the world go by and it was like my 10 minutes outside of the office and then you have to replace that because you're going to miss that ritual the other thing is i truly believe the opposite of addiction is connection.

And so, again, a lot of effort, if this is something you're trying to change, making sure you have a connection every single night of the week, whether it's a face time, whether it's a walk with the neighbor, or one of my favorite things, because people will tell me, like, but I live in rural, you know, Ontario, and I, you know, I can't constantly have connection. I do things called random texts of love. So I just go through my contact list, and I'll pick someone to, you know, two, three, four people. Hey, I'm thinking of you. I love you so much. And I'm proud that you did X. Then next person. Like, it fills your, even though you're giving, it actually fills up your bucket.

Or you're all part of this wonderful Facebook group. You could do tons of messages of love to one another. So, you know, that could be your connection piece. So that's really, really important. And the third piece is go to bed early. If you're sleeping, you're not eating. There's nothing good happens after 10 p.m. Just go to bed. There's nothing happening. I find it so interesting. I have so many friends, not friends, but some family members. We're like, but that's my me time.

So I want to vegetate in front of the television and be up till midnight. But if you're up till midnight, you're going to get hungry. Why not go to bed, get a great night's sleep, start your morning early. It seems simple. And yeah. And like I said, it just takes a lot of time and attention in the beginning. And then it becomes a way of life. To create that routine.

I want to, I want to, and that could be how. having a bath, calling a friend, you know, and, um, and whatnot. I want to ask you about the uncomfortable feelings, though, because I say to people, like you're going to want to eat that thing probably. And it's okay to not be like happy and excited to make this change. You could be like, this is hard and or, or, you know, share with a friend. This is hard. Or the community is hard.

What about things like grief? Yeah. And, you know, I find when people are, they keep themselves busy throughout the day. That's one thing. They're distracted. They come home and they're, they're really. their feels and that's hard so whether they they take to their phone and start scrolling or you know start eating or whatever that is what about those those big feels that we have about grief and we don't

want to feel them what do you do with that what do you do with that how do you feel the silence because a lot of times we eat because we can't eat and think at the same time exactly you're exactly right and so there is a spiritual principle that says whatever I resist persists and anything I refuse to feel will go on for years. Years, right? And so I did a 10-day silent meditation retreat. It was one of the most transformational things I've ever done. So you handed in your phone, no reading, no writing, no TV, no radio, nothing. You just sat and meditated for 10 hours a day. And we learned very simple concepts, but one of them is that nothing in nature is permanent. Everything arises and falls away, including emotions, including cravings, including thought. And

What we learned was that when you would sit in deep meditation and an uncomfortable feeling came up, that if you gave it all your attention and all your curiosity and you were open to feeling everything that feeling was there to give you, it would dissipate. It was the strangest thing. It's like what? This uncomfortable childhood trauma that I have always tucked away but bled all over my life that if I actually sit, and give it all of my attention and curiosity, it will literally dissipate in front of me. What?

So this is it. Like they're uncomfortable. They're hard, but they will not last forever. But they will last forever if you're constantly saying, I won't, I can't, no, no, then they do last forever.

And I find as soon as you, for me, because I'm always like, okay, give it to me. I'm ready to hear the message. I want to work through. I want to grow and evolve and I want to change. As soon as you kind of clear one thing more,

just is like, there you go. Here's some more. Oh, yeah. What's your, what's a realistic time frame for people? So we have someone doing the program. They're struggling with eating and they're just like, oh, okay, try again tomorrow. Oh, okay, try again tomorrow. And they really want this.

They want to make change. What's the time frame so that people are not so hard on themselves? I know everyone's different. But can we just have a realistic, how long does it take someone to work through food addiction issues? Yeah. Well, I think you're right. We're an onion that we keep peeling back. And so the way that I look at it is, I never, you're never going to be done. And in fact, when you're done, it means I'm dead. So what's the rush? I am never going to be done. So let me enjoy this unfolding. Let me enjoy this journey. And so when I have somebody who's in a rush, every time I have to lose this quickly. My clothes don't fit, but summer's coming. You unpack that, you will always find self-hate. Always.

Because when you have unconditionally accepted yourself and unconditionally loved yourself, what are you rushing towards? It's always self-hate. And then here's the danger with self-hate. It's very hard to change behavior from a place of hate. So now you're stuck in the loop, but I can't accept myself. So I'm going to hate myself, which means you can't change from that place. And then you hate yourself more and you can't change from that place.

So it's the courage to break out of that. So what I know, people who struggle with weight or eating for years or decades like me, your self-esteem gets chipped away at. Many of us feel like failures. Like when you want something so desperately in your life and you try and fail, try and fail, and we've often failed because of all the crazy cabbage soup diets and all that stuff. If you grew up in the 80s, you know what I'm talking about. But the truth is you never failed.

You never. So I have this concept in my program is called Bullseye. So every morning we all try to hit Bullseye. And you have your Bullseye, right? You have your to do list. And when you hit Bullseye, oh, you go to bed and you feel amazing, right? Great reward. So in the morning, you still get up the next morning.

You try to hit Bullseye. And guess what? Some days you can't even find. Oh, you miss Bullseye so bad. But that's not a failed day. It's not a failed day. That's the day you practice self-examined. acceptance and self-love because Marianne Williams said every human behavior is either love or a call

for love. So when you hit bullseye, you're loving. You're loving yourself. And when you miss bullseye, you're calling for love. And only you can give yourself that love. So now there's no more losing days. Either you hit bullseye. Oh, or today I practice the most important relationship I'll ever have in this lifetime. I practice nurturing myself. Everybody, when I ask, what's the most important relationship everybody the comments flood me me me me me and then i'll say well how much time energy and nurturing do you put into that relationship yeah the answer is almost always none none zero then guess what it's not the most important relationship because actions and words must match so if it is then you will pour love on yourself when you miss bull's eye so no more losing

because if you feel like a failure guess what happens you can't in a state If I feel like I'm a loser and I'm a failure and I have no self-discipline, what the heck am I ever going to accomplish? Yeah. Nothing. Yeah. Because we feel like being hard on ourselves is how we discipline ourselves. There's a comment here from Heidi.

And thanks for sharing Heidi. So much hate. Oh, my God. This is going to make me a little bit emotional. So much hate that led to my weight gain. Trying to let it go is a hard road. She's finding it gets easier as she gets older. And it's not necessarily let it.

it go like you're saying it's that awareness it's that you know it is it is a bit of work would you say to to reconcile with those feelings it's a practice so at the end of the day you're trying to repair a relationship right so imagine if you had a relationship with someone you loved and adored and you were mean to them and you said awful things for them and you were never there for them and when they were down you kicked them but they're so important to you that you've now decided to repair that relationship, they're not going to trust you at week one, week two. You got to consistently show up for that person month after month, year after year, and eventually you will mend that relationship.

And that's what we've got to think about to ourselves. And I agree with you. I used to think when I made a mistake, take out the shame stick, Sandra, if you really beat yourself up, if you cause yourself so much pain, you'll never do it again. And the opposite was true. and my clients will say, Sandra, if I love and accept myself, oh, I'm just going to give up and lay on the couch and eat whatever I want. And I go, really? Let me tell you, in my, I lost a decade of my life. I lost my 20s to food addiction and obesity. And that's what I did. I lay on the

couch and I ate and ate and watch television. And it was not because I loved myself. Yeah. I lay down for a year, for a decade because I hated myself. And hate is draining. You know, people who say, oh, I don't have motivation, bullshit. Everybody comes into the world. Every human comes in wanting to flourish and thrive and grow. We have that innate desire. So if you're not doing that, something has gone wrong. Nothing is wrong with you, nothing.

But something has gone wrong. And motivation is often driven because of self-hate, because that will drain you. Hate will make you sick, whether it's for someone else or for yourself. Dropping all the truth bombs, I know. I feel, I think I'm so inspired being in New York. I'm like, who am I? I hope I'm preaching to somebody. Well, I hope that you feel like your passion and your work is, is, it's being noticed and it's truly helping people. We need to have these real conversations. Um, I, I, in the sake of time, and I know you got to get going and we don't want to spend too long on this because I know you're

going to be back. Um, I, I love what Marie said here. She's opening a lot of boxes that need to be emptied in the contents used for me. Yeah, you're, that's what we got to lift the lids, people, lift the lids. Two things before we go. Diet Coke is so hard for so many people. Did you have a Diet Coke addiction or? I did. Yes. I remember when I was first in recovery, I used to say, I have to have one Diet Coke a day or I'm going to die. Like, and even our words are so powerful, right? Like words producing motions. It's, it's not true. And it's one of the, when I worked at Renaissance. So I worked at a treatment house for drugs, alcohol, and food addiction. And the worst withdrawal I ever saw was from soda. It was like, I'm like, what the heck are they putting in this

drink? Because people are suffering trying to get off. And I mean, these are generally people who drink a liter or so a day. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, not an easy thing. And Sandra, when I were talking about the foods that these manufacturers are producing are truly addictive. And that's a conversation for a whole other day. And my suggestion for people, a Diet Coke, is focus on the foods, focus on so many other things. The Diet Coke will come as you start to feel better. That will make it easier. And harm reduction.

That's the best thing. So if you're drinking five Diet Coke's, go down to four. Okay. Get comfortable at four. Then go down to three. I mean, if you can go cold turkey, great. If you can't, that's a way. okay. There's so many roads to recovery. There's not just one and all the roads need to be paved

with love. So if you can just drop one Diet Coke, we're going to cheer you on. And then when you're ready to drop the next one, we're going to cheer you on. I saw the other day that you were talking about the scale. You know, you know that we suggest people either get on it every day for data collection, understanding where they're at or not at all. It's not an easy thing. How do, how do you, suggestions for people who are just, they're doing the things. And they just want it so badly and the scale is so frustrating. Any words of wisdom? Yeah.

Well, I think that if you can be neutral about the scale and look at it as a data point, then please don't stop, right? If that scale is actually derailing you, deciding what your worth is, if it is doing more harm, then good, then let it go. Because if you're doing the very best that you can, right? You're eating the whole foods. You're moving the body. You're drinking the water.

this is the best that you can do, then the real work is to love the body you have today. Because the more you love that body today and start living the life that you've been waiting to live, the more food gets crowded out, right? Like, if you're not taking that vacation, my most heartbreaking one-on-one coach was with a woman, she wanted to date, somebody wanted to fix her up,

and she said, I can't go until I lose 20 pounds. Yeah. Oh, my God. Your inner child is listening. That is horrible. in saying to somebody you love and adore, hey, I have someone I want to fix you up with, can you lose 20 pounds first? Yeah. Would you ever say that to another human? Right. It's just, start living the life you want today and that'll crowd out food. Yeah, because you can absolutely

love yourself right now today and still want to make change. There's nothing wrong with that, right? Like your best day is you woke up today and you're alive, right? You may not, you may want to lose weight, but that doesn't mean that you can't love yourself as you are right now. At the same time, when obesity matters first started, we got a lot of concern from the body positivity move because they're like, how can you tell your community to love themselves and then educate them on evidence-based treatment? And I'm like, because both can be true.

So I, I, you know, my daughter wears braces. Does that mean she doesn't love herself? Of course she loves herself. Of course I love her. but she deserves, if she wants, to have straight teeth, right? So it's very interesting. It's like our bodies don't belong to ourselves. And people can have commentary and decide that, you know,

I know that Lizzo went through that and Adele went through that. And they're like, you know what? I loved myself at a higher weight and I love myself at this weight. I am on a path. That would be like Adele taking coaching on her singing, say, oh, so you don't love your singing then. no she just wants to get better at singing my goodness okay i'm going to take it everyone just take a deep breath and just like let it go let's let's all put some good energy towards

sandra congratulations on your your your nomination um so i'm so proud of you i don't know that's the right word because thank you i'll take it it's just all your hard work and i adore your passion for helping people um sandra alia everyone she is the author of the book, Never Enough. You can pick this up on Amazon. Sandra also runs her own workshops that you can sign up for. You can reach out to her, see her offerings at Sandra Aaliyah. That's E-L-I-A dot com slash eight-week online program.

Are you running that now? Is that starting? So that program starts on October 20th. It's an eight-week program from anyone that needs. It's self-directed with weekly support live meetings. But that's for anyone who's like, yeah, I think food addiction is the missing piece. And we have a promo code, 75% off only for the livy losers. Only for you guys.

Yeah. You're amazing to our community. And we love you right back. You can also follow her on her Instagram account. Sandraalia.c.a.a.a. That's your Instagram account? Oh, just CA. Yeah.

Okay. Sandra Alia, CA, you can follow her there. Follow her. Follow her. And you're going to be back. So I'm already looking for. for our next conversation. Have a great rest of your time in New York. I'd say good luck, but you don't need it. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Have a great day.