The Livy Method Podcast - Getting Older Is a Privilege

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

What do a clinical psychologist, a naturopathic doctor, and a learning strategist do when they're in a funk? In Gina Livy's candid BOD Squad conversation, Dr. Beverley David, Dr. Olinca Trejo, and Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer open up about their own struggles with depression, anxiety, and self-doubt, and the anchors that pull them back. Gina steers the panel into the conversation nobody's having: the fear of getting older. From caring for aging parents to the shift from lifespan to health span, they unpack why aging is a privilege worth showing up for. They talk about how confidence is a skill you build brick by brick, not a trait you're born with, and why the goal was never to stop caring, but to stop apologizing.This episode aligns with Day 86 of our Spring 2026 weight loss program. You can find the full video hosted at: www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspring2026To learn more about The Livy Method, visit livymethod.com.Where to Find them:Dr. Beverley David:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdrbeverley/Website: https://www.yourpsychologycentre.ca/Dr. Olinca Trejo:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.olinca/Email: [e-mail]. Deena Kara Shaffer:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/awakenedlearning/Website: https://www.awakenedlearning.ca/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm going to be honest with you, this podcast is unapologetically a hot mess because that is what midlife feels like sometimes. Why, though? And how do we make it better? Do we all just need facelifts and g-lp-1s? I mean, let's talk about it. No bullshit, no wellness wankery here because we're trying to make real change and change is hard. But we're in this together. Welcome to the Living Method podcast.

Hey there, before we get into our conversation today and no doubt it's going to be great, I want to remind you. I want to remind you that we have the most amazing weight loss program and maintenance program on the market. And our next live session for the fall is on sale right now. But if you don't want to wait until the fall, you can sign up today by joining our membership. For more information, go to liby method.com. Hello. We were concentrating.

I was waiting for the music. And then we're like, okay, here we are. The intro thing thingy, the intro thing. the intro thing thingy but then i think i forgot the other day i had ex-nated i'm like it takes too long let's just like get to this segment thank goodness you told this jean yeah i can't even pick my mouth that's okay same i was like whoa wait a minute um hi hi hi i love us i love us i'm so excited to chat with you because i feel like it's been so long what the heck It really has us yet to have us all on the screen.

Yeah, Dr. B, Dr. Beverly and I had a conversation last week. Neither one of us remembers it because her fire alarm was going off at three o'clock in the morning. I had like a whiplash and mild concussion from doing cartwheels in the sand. So it's all fresh and new. Dr. Dina, what the fuck? You're this like new rock star superstar with your whole TV circuit, all the shit you're doing like, Right now.

Don't be too good for us now. I, I wait for your invitations. I'm like, you have so many people now. Please. I go on TV because I love talking about studying. I'm like, if anybody will have me anywhere to talk about the world's most boring subject. Pick me. Pick me, Dina.

I keep writing to Dina and go, how have I got on the telly? The jelly. Well, that's probably your problem right there. Anyone want me on the telly? No. Everybody wants the drawing board. Everly. And Delika, how is tennis going?

Yeah. Are you in my orca? Where are you? No, I am at home. I always think it's going better than it actually is, you guys. But, you know, this is like the delusion. You know, I don't give up. I keep on trying.

And it's, it is what it is. Like, one day you'll see me at Wimbledon semifinal, like, over 80 probably yeah yeah are you watching wimbledon is that like you're like yeah i'm like i'm hardcore like wimbledon fan and i think for a 10 year anniversary uh my wedding anniversary we might go uh next year and so we're just i'm selling a kidney if anybody wants one or know somebody that needs one it is um i already schooled mine to get into the world cup in toronto

oh you i didn't just kidding i couldn't even afford the fans zone. Couldn't even afford to stand outside to go to a food truck at the fan zone outside of the my son. My son was working one of those food trucks, but I had a friend, actually Norma, who wrote the travel section of my new Live Lighter book. She went to Wimbledon and it was for her husband's birthday or something. And she just sent me pictures of the princess and I'm like, this is like, what's her name? Catherine? What's it, Dr. B. you? No. Is it Catherine? Oh, yeah. She's like, I can't stop staring at her. I'm like, that's better than the tennis.

100%. Right? Yes. Speaking of my lighter box. She swoon a little when you talked about. She did. Are you your royal? Are you like, well, when I met, I met Prince Charles quite a lot of, a few times.

And it's really weird because I could have shown you a nice photograph with my mom. Three, what is happening? Just dropping it. Like, oh, we're buddies actually. you want me to text him right now. Oh, but then did this happen with last year? I link is like, oh, I'm on the court next to Raf and the Dow. I'm texting.

I didn't have a picture with him. I was just like. And now you're like, Dr. B is like, oh, me and Charles, we go way back. I met him a few times. It's not Welsh. The Welsh festivals that we go to, like the Royal Welsh show and things like that, where you'll, where there'll be livestock and horses and, um, you'll make your cakes and you'll paint your art. And so he's up, he's often there walking around with, you know, with a stick and just

taking it all in. So he was very normal when I was young. Have you visited livestock with King Charles? No, no, no, like livestock as in animals. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I understand that. Like you've, how How livestock is there? A music festival? Gina, what's the theme today? What is how? These are the words that I've never put into a sentence to get on. Livestock, King, Kane.

I've never spoken a sentence with any of those words. Why are we here? Is this part of the concussion? Like, what? And I'm having a hot flash. I'm going to a flash. I am sure. Drew, you didn't prep me for this.

I don't. I think Dr. You're right. I'm better than you. I am out. I have got a global segment that I need to go to. Because to talk about studying. I need to go talk about studying somewhere.

I was getting, I was segueing with my book. So I know you all don't have a copy yet. Don't worry. I'll hook you up. But I gave a nod to all of you. I've shared tips from all of you in my new Liv Lighter book. Dr. Link has sent me the most beautiful flowers.

I'm not sure if I sent a message back. but they're gorgeous. But yeah, I've given you a nod to all of you in my book. Oh, a link. Well, thanks. I also like the worst time because I think they arrived at the day that you left to Halifax. They were still beautiful when I got back. Oh, oh, that's so nice.

Congratulations. Still beautiful. That's the sweetest. Yeah. So now I'm making you come on a Canada-wide tour with me just so you know. But Gina, he keeps saying this stuff. I'm waiting for the pajama party, pool party, the cruise ship. Like, yes.

And I always pack. I'm in. I always cook because I never unpack. So the jamma party is happening because I'm actually, I'm working on designing some pajamas with this company that's all about menopause pajamas. I know that sounds weird, but they've been in business for like 15 years. It sounds weird. Sounds real helpful.

You've been wearing them, haven't you? I wear them. But also we are going to do, we're doing a conference in April, so you're going to come. I'll give you the date once soon as we pick it. And the retreat is happening in St. Lucia in next. September, 27. So I'm going to send you the dates. You ladies are coming. Okay. I think I'm free. I think I'm free. Why are we here? This is why we're here. Okay, one of the things I want to talk to you about is the end of the program. We're winding it down. And I know you're

not going anywhere because you live here now and you are family. I want to ask you a question. When you encounter hard times in your life or you're feeling down, depressed or just kind of like, fuck this shit. You don't know how you're going to keep going. How do you stay positive? What are your own personal tips? Like, what do you? Physically, what do you do? How do you get yourself out of your funk? I know that's like a head. That was a big like, that was a switch and energy. That was a hard left. I don't. I was thinking about you ladies. And so many people are struggling. So many people are excited and live in their best lives too. But I was thinking like, how do we get, how do you get out of your funks?

Hmm. This is maybe tricky, isn't it? Depending on what we're all going through currently. Yeah. That's a hard question. Because it's like a certain, you know, I was talking to my mum yesterday

about the first time probably that I was depressed, but nobody knew what it was. and she probably didn't even know what it was and it was when I was 11 and it was time to go to high school because we go younger in Britain and it was awful like it was the most awful time of my life

and I just did not want to grow up I didn't want to move from my lovely little school there were like 12 of us in the classroom I felt really important my headmaster Mr Richards would let me answer the phone you know, hello, Seney Bridge Seabee School. So you felt so safe, you know,

and then you had to go up to this horrible, massive high school and be tiny little tadpoles. And I just disappeared, and mum said I disappeared for about four years, where I just went in and wouldn't talk and couldn't, wouldn't smile. And every photograph we've been going through albums for this big chunk of time, I wouldn't want to be in them. And I'd be hiding at the back or scowling or in big clothes, because I wanted to be invisible.

And I was like, and I said, Mum, how did you just not blow your top at me? Because Leo is now sort of this age and he's a tricky little teenager. And she said, I just had hope you were still in there. And I was like, it's lucky I came back because I did. But I didn't go to see anybody. And because probably it really wasn't talked about then that I was so, so sad. And I definitely suffer in spells.

I will notice that I will have waves. And how do I get back out of them? Thankfully, I have that seed in me, probably from my granny, because she was so brave. I'll write a book about her one day and the things that she got through and things like that. And just to have that hope that I'm in there still, just like my mum said, I'm in here. How do I access me again?

Do I need to cuddle Leo? I was feeling a bit sad the other day, and he just came for cuddle, and you just start feeling like you're coming back again, or reach out to a friend and say, do you want to go for a bike ride or a swim or a walk? So at least now, one of my biggest protectors of rewriting my ship is to communicate it, instead of internalizing it, and just shutting myself away, I now know better to speak.

And people have space to hold me for it. It's which you have to learn to trust that. You know, it's very scary to say I'm struggling to help. But yes, it's knowing yourself, knowing what you need, your friends, your people, if you love nature, your pets, the music, how to nurture and be kind to yourself. so that you found it, come back out. I love that. If I was there, I'd give you a nice big hug right now.

I love you. That means a lot coming from you, Dr. Bee, because we think, wow, you're so smart and you're the one helping everybody else, you know, to hear that you're vulnerable like that. And, yeah, thank you for that. I'm glad I asked. Yeah.

I came up with not an acronym, but I channeled some Dr. B energy. I really did because one of the things, I mean, Bab, you're so smart in so many ways, but one of the things I find remarkable acronyms, you know, all your beautiful acronyms, they're constraints. They're like if you put a constraint, the creativity of like the three Cs, then it really, it's like this, if I could condense really big, really potent ideas, it helps us remember them. it helps anchor them.

Like, all right, can I, can I, like, think quickly? It's not like we get the questions ahead of time. So what I hear you asking from, like, a learning strategist, how do I learn to move through hard things? I was thinking around, it's a form of asking, how do you persevere? And, like, keep going this. Where does keep going this? or how do I, how do I re-nourish a sense of keep going this when sometimes I don't want to keep going?

And I work with, you know, students of all ages who are often like, I feel like my only option is to drop out. That's it. Like school's not for me or this program isn't for me. I'm not meant for this. There are no other options. Or AI looks really tempting. It's going to solve it. So I thought that maybe there were a couple of pillars to this perseverance. One is, you ask the question, Gina, like, how do we stay positive? I think the first pillar of perseverance is permission not to. Permission not to feel positive all the time. I think that one of the things, one of the gifts you have, Gina,

in this really challenging sphere of bodies and how we feel about ourselves and identity and trying to live a good life is that toxic positivity, you never bring that. Yeah. The realness of you and the days where you're, not positive. You don't force that. You don't force that from yourself. You don't force that another. So permission to not be positive all the time. Number two is perspective. And that can happen in lots of different ways. Getting outside in nature to Dr. B's point, encountering like music, art, concert, like those things, it's not accidental that they shift us. Read a

Mary Oliver poem. What are you going to do with this one wild and precious life? Like, oh, oh, I was just knocked out of my, out of my rut for a moment. I just got knocked out of my group. So permission not to be positive perspective. People, you know, Dr. B was saying, like, call somebody, communicate with somebody, like connect with your people. When you hear a story from somebody who is a twice PhD, clinical psychologist saying, like, I've had my dark and twisties. I've had my, I've had my down times, as we all have. When you, when you hear that from another person, it's like it softens the layer of self-criticism of like, oh, I should be feeling different. I should be moving through this free faster. Like, nope, nope. And then the last one is

practices. We can do things even if we don't feel like them. Because over time, the aggregate of doing things, the going for a walk, taking the shower, eating the nourishing food, not based on do we feel like it, but this practice of I'm really tending to myself through these, like, humane and whole and good for me rituals, instead of asking, like, am I in the mood to move with you first thing in the morning? I might not be, but I'm going to do it anyways because it never do it afterwards. Yeah. So that's what I, I don't know, like channeling my my doctor B into some into a bit of an acronym. Yeah, love that. Very good. I mean, what do you add to that?

But it's, you know, I was going to be like, I'm just in my feelings, you guys. But I do, I think, I think everything that these brilliant women said is true. For me, it has been, I mean, it will come as a surprise to nobody. I'm a very anxious person. And so I have. Wait, that's a complete surprise to me, by the way. Really? Oh, my God.

Oh, I am, I am, you guys. I'm a very good actress, but like I actually, I've like a lot of anxiety. I grew up with a lot of anxiety because I was like a perfectionist child and like my family. We had a lot of like very complicated family dynamics that I think I compensated for that and just kind of learn to move through the world as like a people pleaser, perfectionist. That gives you a lot of anxiety, right? Like I guess you go out. Yeah, yeah.

So I think that for me, I've allowed myself to. feel my feelings and own them and recognize them and identify them. And also, for me, honestly, it's about connection a lot of the times in connection with my safe people that make me feel safe and that I can just break down in front of and laugh with or whatever it is. But like, I think that like Dr. B historically, whenever I have felt anxious or depressed, for me, it's mostly been anxious, I retreat, where now I realize that the thing that I need the most is connection, social connection, because we're wired for a connection. And so when I have that, it allows me to feel safe in a way. And going back to Dr. Dina's point, what has helped me always kind of recalibrate

has been the habits that I've built along the way and my anchors that I try to never let go off. like for me that will be movement that will be nourishing my body that will be like I will try even if it's two to three things like when I feel like I'm really sinking I just anchor to like okay I'm just going to focus on these two things and then I feel a little bit better and then I focus on three and then I feel a little bit better and then I focus on four and then like slowly along the way I just bring it back to myself but I just I fought so hard to not let go of the anchors that make me, that remind me of not just who I am, but who I want to be. Because I think that when I let go of those, I sometimes feel like I'm drowning.

And so I thought really, really, really hard to just have them on the good days, on the bad days, the habits that keep you in felt. Yeah. I've been on this journey where I, you know, and starting these kind of like 730, it really started with Sherry Perez and I was doing this workout every Friday with her. And I just didn't want to do it. this, whose stupid idea was this. And then I would get up and then by the end of it feel fantastic. And it would just set the tone for my whole day. And I know this. I used to teach like three

Robes classes a day, hardcore, working out, all of that stuff. I just got so out of it. And so I'm like, okay, I want to commit to like 7.30 every day. And I told everyone I was doing that. So like, what are you doing? You already do so much. Why would you do this? This is. And it's reminded me to like, to take time around myself, like get up. Right? How are you going to feel? after. And then it's just open this, this, I was like, why did I used to be such a calm, chill person, right? Like, I don't know if it was pandemic, menopause or whatever, because I actually practice, like, grounding myself every morning, right? Like, visualizing, harming my day. Before I open my mouth, I would take a minute to think about,

okay, what, what am I saying? Like, what is it? And I'm getting back to that practice. And I just had the best weekend last weekend where I, for the first time, sat in my yard. yard and didn't think about, I got to paint, paint the fence, sweep up the leaf, then the thing, paint the bin. And I just was like, let me read a fucking book. And so I went to Indigo, got a book, sat at home. I indulged in making dinner. I fucking hate cooking.

And let me tell you, I am now enjoying it because I'm like, let me look at it from a different perspective. And getting back to those foundationals, right? Like those anchors, game changer. I want to switch gears here. and ask you about getting old because I did a post the other day. What are the conversations that we're not having that we need to have? And let's talk about how hard it is to get old. Like what's his name? Sam Neal just passed away. I think it was 71. I said to Tony this morning, oh my God, I am closer to 70 than I am to 20. And then I was like, oh my God, I am closer to 70 than I am to 30. And Tony's like, well, you're further away from 80. And I, so anyway, I think with age financial stress, there's fear of people dying. I want my fucking mom to live forever. You know, like mobility issues, all of these things.

And anyway, there was a woman, bless her, who came on as like, get over it. Get real already. You're just going to get old. Go with it. That's what I thought her voice sounded like. She's probably lovely. So just ignore me if you're actually watching right now and you wrote that comment. But I was just like, I didn't sleep because I was like, I'm sure we have lots of feels about

getting old. One, I'm grateful, and then the other one, I'm terrified. I don't want to die. People around me are dying. Like, how do you guys handle that? Are you obsessing about getting, not that we're obsessed? I'm not obsessed about getting old. TF. It's a summer day. God, this really turned heavy, man. I just, I want to know because it's been on my mind. I'm just celebrating it. Are you stressing about it? Or are you like, what are you doing about it? Like, because we're midlife. No one's talking about it. I don't care like my face. Obviously, you know, I want to look young, but it's not about how I look. It has nothing to do with how I look. Yeah. What do you guys? What are your thoughts? I mean, I'm going to tell you. I just came back from, you know,

this, you know, I went to Korea with my sister and her children. And my nephew took us to like a skin analysis. And there is nothing that will make you feel older than like a beautiful 13 year old Korean girl telling you like, your pores are not big because they're dirty, it's just because you're old. I was like, honestly, I didn't, I didn't know what self-esteem felt like until you got pinched in the vagina by this like Korean girl. So I- But then it was the French optician last year with you. Oh, yeah. The one that told me that my last year is like too low.

And I've never like long ear. No, I am telling you guys, like aging for me has been, it's been a realization that I'm just really ugly. That's just mostly what has happened in the last couple of years. But my mom used to tell me that was pretty, so it's fine. I was like my mother's like, but. But jokes aside. So as a clinician, honestly, and I wanted to pitch this idea to you, Gina,

because I do think that the more and more that I go through this journey the more I realize that the conversation around women's health, honestly right now just stops at menopause. Yes, yes. Talks about postmenopause. And I think that maybe our entire next series should be about post menopause care and improving your health span, right? Because there's these two health care.

Health plan versus health span. And lifespan is the amount of years you're going to be on this earth and you're going to live. Health span is how many of those years you're going to live well. And women want this. This was one of the feedback where they're like, hey, what about us? Like I get midlife, but what about like 70, 80? What about us? What's the conversation there?

I'm into this. Because I feel like this is where like we're saying, well, you know, I wish I would have known in my 30s. Someone would have talked about menopause, right? And so now we're talking menopause. It was great. But like, I don't want to look back and be like, oh, my God, why were we not talking about, right? Let's do it. I'm into it.

Okay. Because I do think that the fear around aging, at least for me, for sure, it's that, you know, as I get older, the people that I love are also getting older. And I think that that's for me the hardest thing because I want to immortalize my family and my parents. And, you know, I don't know if this happened to you, but like I would see other people getting older. Like, well, that looks like it sucks. But like in my brain, it just wasn't going to happen to me. It wasn't going to happen to my parents. And there was like a very specific day where I saw my mom and my dad struggle getting up from a chair or,

like the first time they got sick that I was like, oh, fuck, you're getting old too. Right. And like that was a very first time. I think that for me, I really felt like my age. And so I think that as a clinician at least, I think that the fear around aging for me has been a lot of grieving, grieving the idea that my parents were going to live forever, grieving the loss of things that I was able to do that I'm not able to do anymore. Like on the tennis court, you guys want to see these 20 year olds?

And I'm like, I can do that too. I cannot. My Achilles does not have been like that. And it's also the fear for me at least has been the fear of, oh, I don't want to age like that. I don't want to be frail. I don't want to do all of that. And so at least it's been empowering to me understanding what I can do and taking some of the reins back and be like, you know what? I'm not going to age like that because I now know better. And I'm going to try to age as well as I can and live in.

independently for as long as I can because I also don't have kids, you guys. And so it's going to be me and a Filipino nurse that's going, they're going to be aging together. And so I think my conversation at least with women has changed into like, I totally get it. I'm afraid too, but let's make, let's make it the best that we can because you can't. You have the power to age a lot more closely than other people have probably because we have more information and we have more tools.

Well, and I love that. And the reason why I'm bringing this up is I'm really learning beyond weight loss, right? Yeah, we have a weight loss program that works. We have a maintenance program helps you maintain. But the conversation is so much bigger than that. And aging is a big part of it. Like I'm at that midlife, which really midlife really is like 38, not like 50 something. But it's all about that motivation and seeing things from a different lens, right?

In one sense, you're trying to lose weight. And that next sense, maybe you're feeling ways about getting older. Then maybe this is where your why needs to shift, right? into more longevity, that health span, rather than being, you know, fitting your ass into your jeans, you know. So I think it's all part of that conversation. It fits. It fits. You can hang with me, Dr. Alenka, says Kathy. Let's go, Kathy. Dina, Bab, what's your perspective? Is it something you guys think about? Like, what? And from what lessons do you think about it? It's definitely arrived, like, on a really fast horse

where I'm like, okay, this is it. And I've thought that mid-life, what's going on? I've definitely got my lovely parents who are age and who I'm looking after. And it's really, really hard. Lillia wrote a report on it yesterday with, you know, because he actually used to do in his civics, civics and careers at summer school. And he was talking about he just wishes there was better,

there were better services for his granny and grumpy. So his mum didn't have to do at all, you know, So it's quite interesting reading that. But it's this sandwich bit. There's me, myself and I that's suddenly very worried about the future to think, have I got enough? And I know I don't have enough yet because I was at school for too long and had to start again.

And so I've gone to the bank and I've become, I just want to know now. Instead of burying my head and thinking I'll be okay to actually know, how am I going to manage the aging process? When might I be able to retire? Have I got enough for Leo? Because it's just Leo and I. I want him to do well. Have I got life insurance if something happens to me?

Is he okay? So planning, that planning that I probably was taking for granted a few years ago really has come up to the, bubbled up to the surface. Yeah. Also planning for my parents to be thinking, okay, let's have the hard conversations about how we're going to manage this. But then also health for all of us, just like Alinka saying,

seeing my mum deteriorate is devastating and trying to encourage her. You still have power. Let's still do it, mum, because I don't want people to think it's just too late. It's just too late. It can't do anything now. I want to encourage people to think little,

just start small steps can make a difference. And so I'm trying to be proactive with that. Like we all are now thinking, okay, what can I put into my body? How can I move my body? How can I risk my body and nurture it and nourish it? My mind, my body, every bit. And to be forgiving of myself in that we don't know better. When we were young, you know, we did some bathe.

We did get to brush our teeth. We didn't think about the future. And maybe now it's becoming a spotlight and I really am. I'm more mindful of my choices and my decisions because I do want that health span. So that I'm here to be with Leo and hopefully be in his life and also to support my mom and dad as they journey through their last part of their life. So it's covered everything. It's like, who am I going to be? Have I got enough money?

Leo wants me to be rich. He's like, come on, man. Can't you be rich? Get a fucking job, Leo. Get a job. Take us. Don't like. I'm like, how do we do it?

And I'm like, you're right. How do we do it? I'll ask Dina. I'll see Dina. How do I get on the telly? But it's all action stations, you know. And it's a bit scary. It feels like quicksand thinking, how can I get on top of this?

And then there's a part of me, I don't know if it's an all right part of me. I love it anyway. But it's reckless that I want to. think do it anyway. Do it. Do it. That thing that you want to do anyway that probably isn't very sensible. You know, I really want to swimming pool. I want to do it before my mom and dad have died. I want to do it so that Leo enjoys it. But I know it's not the right thing to do. But I'm just like, I want to do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. And you freeze. And this is it. And this is it. Like I know why are we talking about this in a weight loss? Because here we are trying to reach this weight law

school and then life is happening we have all these thoughts and feels and everyone's talking menopause okay great but to me menopause is such a small little teeny teeny tiny it's a day it's yeah it's a day dr dina dr dina it's such a tender conversation yeah um my relationship with age uh is a bit different than um Dr. B and Dr. O's. So for those, if we've been in community, so my parents both died when I was in my mid-20s and I was their caregiver. And I was in a, I was like half an only child. I was the one, I have older step siblings, but it was me. It was me and my folks in, in the, the, it's like a vividness when when people go through diagnosis. and passing away. And that meant when I was 25 and 26, that was right up in my face.

Mortality was was right there. And so I didn't have a very free youth. I had a really serious one. And it has served me well because what I've done with that, being up close to catastrophe, loss, very big decisions for a young person around. palliative care, like power of attorney, like too young without anybody to consult. Like, is there a grown up in the room? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No. No, that's me.

And so when you lose a safety net and when you lose that family structure, it meant that those big existential conversations were alive and me very early. There was no 20s with abandon, really. I mean, I did have one summer backpacking on my own through the Greek islands and Turkey and Jordan. Like, I had a minute, everyone. Yeah. But it meant that money was very serious early on. There was not going to be like grandparents picking up my kids from daycare.

There was no helping hand. So what that's meant is I can sit with the suffering of another human. I'm not scared of the dark thing. So when I had high school students who would, who would, who would, oof, the stories, the very stories, I'm like, okay, we can, here's how we're going to troubleshoot problem solve. We can, we can find a next path. And when I was a learning strategist for students who had disabilities and very complicated learning journeys, it was like, okay, lock in, I can be very present and help you kind of

McGiver your way out. So I also have had the privilege of working with students across the years, including 50s, 60s, 70s going back to school. A lot of folks like reclaiming things that weren't possible that they were kind of forced out of. So my perspective, I don't know if anyone has seen this movie. So people know the musical Rent. And then there was this accompanying movie called Tick, Tick, Boom about the creator of Rent. And for me, it is. so extraordinary because it's a person charged with like an inner tempo of like it's a race against time everyone and I can't lie like that is in me because I've seen how precious and how quick it is. So when there's conversations of aging, my experiences age in a way is a privilege.

And I know my own life, loss of friends, loss of social. Loss of friends. Loss of students, loss of course, of families so young, miscarriage. Like you're aware of life's challenges very early. You're like, I don't know, y'all. Like, I'd be delighted if I made it to 70 because I see so many people who haven't. And so it's not that it's, I carry that desire to be as healthful and awake as possible. but I'm also aware it can end tomorrow and I got a lot to do. So people, I get a lot of judgment of like,

whoa, Dina, you're always so busy. This is work of aliveness for me. One thing I can do in this life, and it's to help something around learning and teaching and make less suffering there. And so that is what proximity to death and dying has done for me, is how can I ease another person suffering? Yeah, I thank you for sharing.

I love what you said that it's a privilege. And I think this is it. It's such a privilege that I want to get it right. I want to be in it. I want to do it. Like when people say, I just get over it. I don't want to get over it and succumb to it.

I want to live my best fucking life for as long as fucking possible, which is why I want to talk about these things, right? Like I want to be fully present. I want to be physically able to do all of the things. That's why I think you just fucking nailed it. Because what that woman said, she's entitled to say whatever she wants. Why did it bother me? Why did I lose so much sleep? Because one, I'm so grateful and it is a privilege to get older, but then it also comes with a lot of

thoughts and feels. And that's exactly and it is a privilege. And I want to make sure I fucking see it like that every fucking day and live my best life. Thank you. Thank you. I want to, I know we're already over time. Are you guys okay for time? Can we have like three minutes, five more minutes? We had this guest, Kathleen. And also I just want to say to you, Dina, I had, I talked to a psychic, right? I don't know if you're into that, but I'm into that. And she said to me, I said, you know, I always seem like just when I'm doing one thing,

I'm often doing another. And everyone else's perception of that is, you know, you're doing too much. You need to whatever. You need to whatever. And I'm like, but I love it. And she says, you know what? This is a gift.

The fact that you are full of ideas and you want to do more in your life, it's a gift. That's it. There are so many people who don't have purpose and don't know what they want to do. The fact that you want to do all these things is just, it's a gift. That's it.

It's amazing. So like, that's it. Love it. Do it. Do you. I had this guest on, Kathleen camera yesterday. And man, I was like, who the fuck does this woman think she is? She was just so calm and confident and full of fabulous energy and just absolutely a delight. As are all of you, what's your advice for that confidence? And are you mindful of the energy you're putting out? Here we are at the end of the program. We have our summer. club. We're not going anywhere, but people are still nervous about next steps, maybe learning to trust themselves and whatnot. Do you think about confidence or how do you stay confident? Like, any tips at all for that? For me, I was just like, even I realized, oh my God, I'm like,

I'm coming from this place of high, compared to what I used to be. And so even I'm just like, okay, let me like own my confidence. How do you own your confidence? That's a question. Can I scare? I'm in each. I want to start. So I am six feet tall, which anyone who is at the women's show, you all reminded me. Holy shit, you're cut. I think we're going to get that over with now. Okay. So before the conference, I'm very tall. I just said it an email and let everybody know. Just memo, we're over it now. We'll do a line up. Just for my wingspan. If I'm six feet tall, so is my wingspan. And metaphorically, I don't like flap or any. I just mean I'm pulled. That's all I'm trying to say.

But what that means is in this world where often it's much preferred to be is there are moments unintentionally that I've gone like this. And I found myself really like, but I don't, I can't, I cannot be small. There is nothing that I could ever do that could make me actually. small. So about 10 years ago very naturally, I guess I was in my early, so more than 10 years ago when I was in my early 30s, there was like a natural desire to like, I can't do it. I can't, I don't want to be contained. It doesn't feel good. So that's just one one part. The learning strategies part is that I work with people all the time. Mostly I work in the world of academic

distress, right? And people come not confident. A teacher has shaken their confidence, a course, a program that hasn't gone well. Yeah. But it was going to be this thing, like what happened? And so I teach confidence building as a skill because I've never liked it when it's like, are you a confident person or a not confident person? And that's a binary. And what about all the people who don't feel like they were born into confidence? Like optimism. Optimism is a skill that can be learned. It's not just like, Am I optimistic or pessimistic? It's just not helpful if we tie our identity to argue this or are you that.

But how is that useful? If you don't feel naturally confident if that wasn't part of your family language, if there have been knocks along the way that have brought you down, confidence is still learnable. There's this wonderful idea. I did leadership. I offered leadership training on this. And it's like imagine confidence as a wall.

And you can remind yourself in times where you feel kind of not. down. We all do where the wind's knocked out of our sales. My God, the number of publishers who turned me down. I had an agent say to me before I publish, feel good learning, well, you're the right person at the right time, right topic. You don't have enough Instagram followers. Fuck you. For real. For real. Thanks God for self-publishing. So a wall of confidence. If you think about, you know, one layer is accomplishments. Yeah. So what are the pick-fifference? five bricks. What are five things that the people who know you well say about you? Okay, you can put that and you can literally print out a template of empty bricks. What are your values? Who have you stood up for or a

cause or something you believed in? Who have you helped along the way? And when you begin to see that actually confidence is built on moments. Yeah. Built on these micro things. It's not just like a static like you are or you aren't, you have it or you don't, then you begin to go, wait a minute. I'm not as knocked down as I thought. There's a real foundational wall here. There's an architecture of my confidence. Love that. And I can also add in bricks that will boost my confidence. So let's take up our wingspan and let's remember the like architecture underneath it. Yeah. And let's work our tricep. Well, I'm good. I wore a I wore a long sleeve. yes i love that um dina took up all your time you guys don't have your time left i'm so sorry i love

you i just had a lot to say about that i'm so sorry i love you i love you i love it i love all of it and i'm in charge we can go as long as we want um dr beverly dr alinka will you guys like i know i know it's hard act to follow because that was brilliant i mean it's my personal it's not it's not tips yeah how do you Yeah, I'll tell you why. I mean, as we were chatting earlier, you can imagine that growing up for me, I was trying to take up as little space as possible because I was trying to like never ruffle feathers. And then I decided like, fuck it, I'm just going to be who I am.

And I was always either too much or not enough. You know, that's a messaging that I always got because I have a big personality. I, you know, and so it was always, I always would get this like opposite message. And as I've come into my own, I'm going to use tennis because, you know, I love tennis. When I first started learning tennis, my husband who has played tennis for like 40 years, took me to the first time the Raffin Nadal Academy. And I had been playing tennis for six months, so you can imagine how that went. My balls were going all over the place.

And I had this Italian coach. And I just like, you know, I would keep on hitting this ball. I'd be sorry, sorry. He called me over to the mat. And he said to me, don't be sorry. either be better or don't be here. And I went to the bathroom and I cried so hard. And as I was coming out, my husband was coming in and he was like, what's, like, what's wrong?

I was like, he told me that I couldn't be on the court because I didn't know what I was doing. And he said, fuck that. You're learning. You've never been here before. You're learning and you're allowed to be here just as much as anybody else on that court. And I think that for being human, right? Because I think like, I've never been. I've never been this before.

I've never been this before, right? This is my first time going around and I'm learning just the way that you are. And you don't have to be on the same court as me. You can go and play with somebody else, but like I'm allowed to take up space and I'm allowed to like hit those balls outside and like fuck up and like do all of these things. And you know what? Like I am entitled to be who I am unapologetically.

And so I try. not to apologize for who I am. And I try, and I say that with kindness and grace because I still try to be obviously like a kind of human and like do all of the things that my mom taught me. I love you, mom. But, and, but I always go back to exactly what Dr. Dina was saying. Like I go back to my values. And when something shakes me, I go back and remind myself of like who I am and what my intentions were. and what I'm trying to achieve.

And I think that that reminds me of the type of person that I am. Yeah. And that always grounds me and reminds me that it's okay to be who I am. Yeah. And not everybody's in my phone, that's okay. Taking up the space you need and the time that you need. Right? Like that's exactly, that's the message from each, you know what I mean?

For sure. And I think as women, honestly, we just, we apologize. for everything. We apologize for breathing. We apologize for moving. We apologize for like all of this. And I, as I moved into my mid-40s, I was just like, fuck it. Like, I'm just not gonna. Like, I'm just not going to, you know, like, unless I hurt somebody's feelings or I do something that I need to apologize for. I was like, I just don't need to apologize for who I am anymore. And that's giving me confidence that I wish I had at 20 and like, you know, my 20s and my 30s because I think that I wouldn't have let so many people step on me. and friends take advantage of me and all the things, you know, that like happened to you when you just decide to not take a space. And isn't that the true definition of like authenticity? You know, everyone's trying to be authentic.

And it's really just, I'm not not listening, but, you know, being like, well, who's ever going to pick it up? What I'm putting down is going to do that. Whoever I'm going to resonate with is going to resonate. Whoever's still here listening is still listening. You know what I mean? Whoever left and got what they needed and they're off on their day. like rather than trying to control everything and where you fit, right, taking up the space,

taking up the time. Ooh! Dr. P. You can shut her down for us? It may be. I was thinking about, you know, beautiful introductions and Dean and Ellinger did cover it all. And I think when I think of what I talk to my son, Theo, about is that calm confidence, doesn't from knowing that nothing's going to go wrong.

Confidence comes from knowing it might go wrong, but you can handle it, okay, even when it does. Because that's, at this stage of our life, we're going to have more data points to be able to think, okay, I can draw on this. Is there repeated evidence that I've managed, I've managed things, I've recovered, I've overcome self-doubt, I've jumped those hurdles.

and that becomes proof that we're capable. And that capable competency allows the calm confidence to stay. Alongside what Alinko was saying is, who am I? In the quiet night, who are you? Are you the person that opens the door for somebody? You're the person that picks up the rubbish that somebody dropped up on the pavement in front of you. These small acts add up to who you are and then how you trust yourself. and we all probably know Brené Brown now.

And she'll tell you that trust is built in very small moments. And it's the same for self-trust. If we trust ourselves, we're more confident in ourselves and we can then bring that calmness. I can be calm in a presentation or a public appearance because I know that now it doesn't matter if I get it wrong because I'll find a way through it. If I forget my word, I don't, I'm not embarrassed to say,

say, oh, I've lost my word, you know, because I've taken the pressure off this perfection part that lovely Alinga reminds us. It's just, it just gets in the way. So we want to be able to say to ourselves, even when I wobble, I'll recover. We want to add self-compass. We want to tap into that internal compass, you know, that who am I? Who am I with self-confidence? How do I move? How do I talk? What do I do and what do I not do? because you might notice that something is slipping and you might have to think, okay, where have I been hanging around? Who have I been with?

Am I accidentally absorbing a negativity around certain people, you know, whether we're at work or whether we're just a bit saturated with less confident, calm people? And then we've got to think, right, I've got to come up for air and line myself up again with what matters. And I think that that then comes across. And as my granny would say, whenever you walk into a room, shoulders back, head up, and imagine somebody's pulling that string from your head.

She says that first, you know, spot the room, look at the room. And how sad that our children aren't doing that as often because they're all in their rooms like this. You know, they're looking down, they're on their screens. But if you scan your room, that's going to tell your brain quite quickly, I am here. I deserve to be here. I am confident. Let's go. Okay, because our body and how we move it is listening. I got really teary-eyed there. I was just having a conversation with Tony in business. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, God, why do I care so much? Like there's people in business who just don't give a fuck, right? Like they're ruthless and they're this and they're probably making more money than I am. And I'm like, why do I care? I got to stop caring so much. And then when you said, are you the person who picks up the garbage?

or the person, whatever, and that that's who you, that's who you are, those little pieces or that, that creates you. Oh, my gosh. That was just like, yeah, that's why I fucking care. I probably care too much, but I, I want to be that person that is created out of those of caring too much, you know, so anyway. That's your super time as well. Yeah.

You know, like that's what people can feel about you around business, right? It's like how do you treat your staff? What's the email you write? Do you reply? Do you, you know, that the idea that this is born out of a Facebook community where people are attended to, responded to, their questions no matter how often, they're not judged for that. So that feels like the business equivalent of those questions. Like that the gina we see is also the gina behind the scenes. Yeah. I only know you because. I reached out and said, I admire that you are doing something that is non-extractive. Like, do you have time to talk with me?

Because I'm fascinated. There isn't anybody that I see in business. And I didn't go to business school. I was educator way before entrepreneur. I'm like, I don't see anybody doing it ethically. Yeah. You talk to me. And you're like, not only will I talk to you, Tony's going to come and join the conversation.

You are heartfelt. You are forthcoming. You said reached out any time. I just had like, I know I want to do this thing, but I don't know how to do it well. And so that speaks volumes. It's how we are in the private conversations. It's how we are in it. So I love that.

It's like all the versions of how do we hold open the door? How do we uplift people who are also trying so hard in this lifetime? You do that all the time. You uplift all of the people around you. But I think it's the, how do you open the door when nobody's watching? And how do you do all of these things when it's not about the show? Yeah. You know, and I think that that's the one reason why we're all here because we know that you don't just open it for people when we're in public at all of these events for people to be like, oh my God, she's so amazing, right?

Yeah. You do it. You stop and talk to people at the grocery store who like want to come and say high and, like, authentically. Like I think that that's, that's how I want to be remember. We're talking about like getting older. Like those are the things that matter to me. That's a real legacy. I think that that's a real legacy is how did you, how did you make people feel?

Yes. Like including yourself. Oh my gosh. I love that. First of why, I love all of you. I'm like our goal setting. I swear to God, Gina. I thought it was going to be the like, why did you?

people give up. I was like, oh my God, the don't prior art has the help. Like, I had an entire spiel. And then we just went, we've had, listen, you know what I'm into? What I'm into is because this is an ongoing journey from women. And we've had some great conversations about not giving up, persevering all that stuff for these ladies available in the app and on our podcast. I want to be in the moment. I want to have the unexpected, not contrived. It's great to know what you want to talk about. And we've done that, right? I've said, you hear the questions, here are the things, hear what we want to talk about. I want to have the in the moment, like truly the conversations that no one else is having.

Like, let's just go. Like, there's surface and then there is the deep. And then I want to go like, I want to go deep, see diving on all of this. I don't know about you that, but that excites me. And I want to peel back the layers on you ladies because I know you give so much. And I just, I want to like, know, where's that coming from? You know? Yeah.

I'm going to talk to my therapist real quick. I love you all so much. I appreciate all of you. Listen, I know our members are going to be great because they've had your guidance, right? Because we're part of this community because people who are listening right now and joining us live or listening out of the fact. They're there. They're here.

That's it. So they're all going to be okay. You're all going to do amazing. Join the summer club. Come back with us in the fall. Like, stay connected. Like not just to us, but to yourself. We got this.

Right? I got this. We got this. All right. I would ask you closing thoughts, but we don't have time. So we're just going to go. Listen, you can find, we're going to put all the contact information for all of these ladies. They offer all sorts of great services and seminars and workshops and things that they're doing.

We're going to list them above. We're going to add their contact information. You can find all of them over on Instagram, Dr. Dr. Beverly. Awakened. What is it? Wakened awareness. Awakened learning.

Awaken Learning with, okay, Dr. Dr. Beverly, Awaken Learning with Dr. Dina and Dr. Alinka. Dr. Alinka. Over on Instagram, and they all have their respective websites. We're going to post all that information. Awaken Learning. Your psychology center, Dr. B, and Dr. Linka, you don't have a website, do you? I pretend to. I mean, it is up and it's under construction.

It's been under construction for 20 years, but it's Dr.Lanka.com. Yeah. Just go there and like to sleep. You can send it info, email info at doctorlinko.com. Anyways, you know where to find them. Reach out. We'll put it on the podcast.

If you're listening, we'll put it in the group. Follow them over on social media. Thank you. I love you ladies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, ladies.

Bye, everyone. Thanks for joining. See you next time.