The Livy Method Podcast - Introducing Dr. Sean Wharton - Spring 2025

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

In this guest expert episode, we are introduced to Dr. Sean Wharton. Dr. Sean Wharton has a doctorate in Pharmacy and Medicine from the University of Toronto. He is the medical director of the Wharton Medical Clinic, a community-based internal medicine weight management and diabetes clinic. He is an adjunct professor at McMaster University and York University, and is academic staff at Women's College Hospital and clinical staff at Hamilton Health Sciences.Dr. Sean unpacks why the old-school “calories in, calories out” approach just doesn’t reflect how the body actually works. Weight loss isn’t about math—it’s about metabolism, genetics, biology, and how the body’s systems respond to change. He also shares why compassion in medicine matters just as much as clinical expertise, emphasizing that everyone deserves quality care at every size. The conversation touches on autonomy in health care—how important it is to support people in their choices, not shame them for them. Dr. Sean also challenges the stigma around obesity, framing it as a chronic condition that deserves proper medical support, not judgment. He breaks down the role of medication, explaining how it's one of many tools—not a failure—and how weight-loss meds like GLP-1s can be empowering when used with the right guidance. He also compares surgery to medication, stressing that it's about offering options so people can decide what’s best for their unique situation. Throughout, the message is clear: science will evolve, but at the heart of it all, you deserve compassion, agency, and the right to choose your own path.To learn more about the Wharton Medical Clinic, visit whartonmedicalclinic.comor find Dr. Sean on Instagram: @drseanwhartonYou can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspring2025To learn more about The Livy Method, visit livymethod.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livi and welcome to the Livi Method Podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 Day Weight Loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews, and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the Morning Live? Want to relisten to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place.

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How do we help you feel less overwhelmed so you can continue on your journey? Keep believing in yourself and keep trusting the process. Just be patient. Now I say I'm excited a lot to have the conversations that I'm so privileged to have with our guest. But today I'm absolutely thrilled. My guest today is an absolute rock star in his field. And it's not just because of his credentials. It's because he's compassionate, he's kind, and he knows how to share his knowledge in a way that's going to truly empower you. Dr. Sean Wharton is joining me. He's an internal

medicine specialist. He's a researcher, a professor. He's one of Canada's leading experts in obesity medicine. He's also the director of the Wharton Medical Clinic. Dr. Sean Wharton, hello. Hello. This is exciting to be here. You know, I mean, I do a lot of these. I do a lot of talks. I do a lot of interviews, et cetera, et cetera. This one I was looking forward to and excited to really do, yeah. Well, and you know, I want to say that I met Sean originally

at the Canadian Obesity Society Conference a couple of years back. And I was nervous because I'm like new on the scene and I don't have a background in medicine. And Sean was so warm and welcoming. And you are actually, I wouldn't have a background in medicine. And Sean was so warm and welcoming. And you are actually, I wouldn't say a fan of the Living Method, but you actually share the Living Method in some of your talks,

which I mean, are just like. Wait a minute, fan is correct. I am a fan of the Living Method. Let's back it up. Let's be clear. Yes, I am. My wife and I watched all of the Dragon's Den yesterday. We absolutely loved it. So we are

we are fans. So let's be clear. Okay, I want to I want to get into asking you a ton of questions. So as you know, we have our incredible community people who are really trying to work hard to make change in all the right ways. They're learning how to eat good, nutrient rich foods to be in tune with their body's needs. They're focusing not just on what to eat and when they're, they're understanding where stress fits in and trying to get better sleep and all of that. Um, you know, when I was at the, the most recent conference in Montreal, a few months ago, the very first

night, the opening night, you talked about how it's not just calories in versus calories out anymore and willpower. Can you just talk about why? Why did you feel it was important to say that? Because I know so many people here, they've just been told, eat less, exercise more. It's so easy. And that's not the case. Yeah, that's a great question.

We've been talking about this for years now, ever since obesity has become important and scientific. So the scientific evidence tells us that's not the case. Counting calories in and out doesn't get you to where you want to actually go. It's not a mathematical equation. Our bodies don't believe in math. One plus one does not equal two in our body. It equals whatever the body wants it to do. It could equal negative one. It could equal 17. The body just does what it wants to do. So what does that even mean? There was an interesting study where they took 20 women, this is in 1975, and they put them on a farm and they made them eat 1200 calories. So

they're eating much lower calories, they're counting it, they're very clear about how much they're actually getting in. And then they measured their metabolic rate. One to two of the women went up in their metabolic rate, which was interesting. The majority went way down in terms of their metabolic rate. And one of them went to negative 45% of her metabolic rate. So when she says that she is eating the lower calorie diet and gaining weight, she is eating the lower calorie diet and gaining weight, she is. She's literally, because of either the wrong way of eating or intensity of that dietary measure. So everybody's body

in that study behaved differently. So one plus one did not equal two, because everyone was supposed to be at this at the zero mark. Everyone's supposed to, the predicted metabolic rate was predicted. But that's not what everybody did. Everyone's supposed to, the predicted metabolic rate was predicted. But that's not what everybody did. Everyone did whatever they wanted to do, which was genetic, which is biology. I don't know what it is, but whatever it is, it's not what we predicted.

You've been at this for a while now. Before I get into it any further, where does your passion for this come from? I think when I first started to really think about this and look at it, it was frequently, I was a resident, I was doing my internal medicine specialty. And a lot of times people living with diabetes and another number of medical conditions

were giving more medications, more intensity, when in fact the obvious thing in the room was that there was a challenge with the person's adipose tissue. There was toxic fat tissue that was causing the actual problem and nobody wanted to actually talk about it. Why? Because we didn't know what to do. We were lost in terms of helping and anytime one of the internists tried to help it would go south until Arya Sharma did a great lecture on the science and the sociology and the social connections within obesity medicine and sometimes how there's a lot of bias stigma and discrimination and as a black man I face prejudice stereotype and racism That's exact same thing as bias, stigma, and discrimination.

So that's why I connected with it. You know, you're brilliant, but you're also so compassionate. And can you just talk a bit about that? Because I think that's one of the things that make you so special in what you do beyond just being the top of your field. Can you talk about the compassion part of it? Yeah, that's my favorite part. Tell you the truth, as a physician and a scientist, I love the science. I love the biology. I did a lot of years of school, 17 years of school of

just learning all the different scientific principles and concepts and biological concepts. So if people in medical school and in my field don't understand the biology, there's a problem. They're in the wrong space. But so they always understand the biology. They're really good at it. They know where the hormones go, how they connect to the brain, how they connect to the hypothalamus. So the doctors are great at that. What they're terrible at is compassion, is understanding that people need to be heard, they need to be hugged, and they need to be helped only when they ask for the actual help. But a lot of times they need to be hugged and heard, which means that not a literal hug from a physician, it means that they,

the physician needs to understand that the person is reaching out and needs to know that they're cared for, that they're loved, they're loved by their family members, they're loved by by other people and they're taken care of and that they should be taken care of and they deserve this at their highest weight, not at their lowest weight, they deserve it right away. And without that, I don't care how much biology you actually know, you're gonna miss out on the person that's sitting in front of you.

Well, I remember listening, I had an opportunity to talk to Sean the other day and you were talking about autonomy. Yeah. Yeah, people have choice. I think they feel like they have very limited choice, maybe because they've tried all the diets or they go to their doctor and their doctor

says just eat less exercise more, but they actually have a lot of choice when it comes to a plan. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah, autonomy and agency. So letting the person in front of you know that they have the ability to make the choices that they want to make and we should not get upset with them or try to force a change in the decision that the person's made. So now if someone has breast cancer and they don't want to have surgery or mastectomy or a lumpectomy and get chemotherapy, that's their choice. They've made the decision to do that.

We need to respect it and understand it. You still need to care for the patient. So I'll spend my time caring for the patient, knowing that they're important, knowing that they're loved by family members and knowing that they've made this decision. They're big people. So that's an extreme.

And most of the time, people would have a concern about that. Why wouldn't you want to take care of your cancer in the appropriate way, right? Let's go to weight management. So a doctor has in their head the way that they want to treat the patient. You have the patient says,

I don't want that, or I want something different, or they're even afraid to say it because the doctor is so forceful with their own approach. We need to let people speak, hear what they want to do, understand that they're bright and capable people and not treat them in a paternalistic way. Doctors and healthcare providers frequently do paternalistic way. Doctors and health care providers frequently do paternalism. Paternalism means acting like a parent and telling them you should do this.

The child's two years old, you'll want to stop them from running onto the street. That's being a good parent. If that child is no longer a child, but 35-year-old woman or man or 45-year-old, 60-year-old, they're capable. And if we treat them like children, then that's, that is the wrong way to do medicine. Well, there's that stigma. If you can't like manage your weight, then you're not capable of other things and making the right choices for yourself. That's been around for a while. And I think people over the years have gone to their doctors and you know, doctors are are incredible. And I definitely wouldn't want to have gone to their doctors and you know doctors are are incredible

And I definitely wouldn't want to live without my doctors for sure But a lot of people have had for lack of a better word negative experiences with their doctors tied into their weight How do you suggest someone get over that? Yeah, well, I mean in our guidelines, so we wrote the 2020 Canadian Canadian obesity guidelines and in those guidelines 2020 Canadian obesity guidelines. And in those guidelines, when we published them, a number of doctors got really upset and wrote, you can Google it and find it,

negative things about the guidelines. Why? Because they said that you're telling me that I'm a bad doctor and that I'm not doing the right things for my patient when I told them to eat this food. When I told them they should put the fork down. When I told them that they should food, when I told them they should they should put the fork down, when I told them that they should exercise. What about that is bad and why you tell me I'm a

bad doctor? And I'll repeat it, I'm telling them that they're a bad doctor. That's correct. That is what the guideline says. The guideline says that you are misbehaving as a health care provider and it's not appreciated by your patient, it's not appreciated by the public for you to have, for you to dictate to your patient and shame and blame your patient. There's no room for shaming and blaming your patient in medicine, any field of medicine, but for some reason in obesity medicine, many healthcare providers feel, think that it's okay. It's time that they stop getting away with it, stopped doing it, and that time they started to be reprimanded for it. It will not be and should not be tolerated.

That's what the first aspect of the guideline told people. So I don't apologize for that. I'm clear about it. I did it to myself. I was bad. I went to my patients. I was paternalistic. I was dictating to them what they should do with a change in that and understanding it now for so many years, I'd like to see healthcare providers and physicians change also. What would you say to our members who feel like,

okay, they're here again, they've lost, they've gained, they've lost and gained. What would you say to someone who just feels like they've failed every diet? Yeah, you didn't fail the diet, the diet failed you. So you are a good person. You are still, you are terrific. So I mean, if Einstein quit with his first

tries and concepts, that would be, that would be bad. So it doesn't matter that it's, and it's been multiple times. And we do have this concept of learned helplessness, where we have tried so many times and, and, and it didn't work out the way we wanted it to. We need to figure out what that is. Should we change our expectation or should we change not necessarily always the way of actually doing it, but should we look at the whole picture a little bit better?

Like, why am I doing it? What am I doing it for? Am I doing it for more love? More love from who? People say I have more love from myself. Don't you love yourself? And that's the way, well, that's not what people really focus on a lot of times. It is love from their grandchildren, love from their children, love from their partners, love from their city, love from the people that say that they're important, a banker or a bus driver who sees them as important and lets them move around in the world

in an appropriate fashion. We're all looking for respect and we're all looking for that being seen and that recognition. And that can happen at any weight. Let's change our expectation, not just talk about weight, but talk about our inner selves and who we are and how we feel.

And if someone's making you feel bad, then give them the gears and let's work on making you feel better. Love that. Obesity is now recognized as a chronic disease. What do you think, why do you think it took so long? Yeah, well, it's recognized as a chronic disease. What do you think? Why do you think it took so long? Um, yeah, well, it's recognized as a chronic disease by some societies and some countries, but it's not really still recognized as a chronic disease. It took so long because it still is taking

long. The majority of the world does not recognize obesity as a chronic disease. We're frequently in the echo chamber where we get to talk about it. But if you listen to a number of other podcasts or just the government or what is put out by anywhere from the UK to the American to the Canadian government, they're not talking about obesity as a chronic disease. They're talking about the fact that

people don't have enough willpower and they should go on a better diet, a better diet. They don't talk about the fact that people should be loved and should be cared for and that if their health is what they're looking for, they should be able to have access to healthy options. They talk about exercise and better dietary intervention as if the patient didn't know that they were supposed to do that. They don't know that they're cared for. They don't know that interventions from psychological

and to medical interventions should be available for them. That's what they don't know. Yeah, you said this term, medically obesity. That's what you do. You're medically managing from that side of things. Of course, there's the food, there's the sleep and the stress and all of those things. What options are available to people? Yeah, so as an internist, right, I'm an internal medicine doctor. So what does that exactly mean? Internal medicine is all the internal organs. So cardiology,

respiratory, you know, the heart, the lungs, the kidney, that's what internists do. And some specialize in one organ. So a kidney doctor will be a nephrologist just in that one organ. But a general internal medicine doctor does all of the organs, all of the insights. Internists tend to use pharmacological interventions or other types of interventions to help treat medical conditions. So for the internist, the corollary to that is a surgeon. So surgeon's cut and the internist does pharmacological intervention or other interventions. So for instance, there's a cardiologist that does medications to keep your heart going and there's a cardiac surgeon that goes in and does the the cardiac search. So that

those are the divisions of medicine. As an internist, if I see somebody with high blood pressure, I'm talking to them about dietary intervention, about activity, about movement, about caring for themselves, and I'm also giving them a high blood pressure medication. Because a high blood pressure medication works regardless of whether they are doing a good diet or they're active or they're not active. It doesn't care. It keeps on working. Will it work better if you do those things? For sure it will. And do you maybe not need it if you're doing those things terrifically? It's a good day for you. It's a good month. It's a good year. It's great. That's terrific. But when it's not a good month, a good year because of other things, then that high blood pressure medication

works to keep the blood pressure down so they don't have a heart attack or a stroke, or stroke, which is debilitating, right? So it's not always that people need it if they could do another intervention, but if they can't get to that other intervention, they have the option, the agency, the autonomy, the capacity to be able to care for with pharmacological interventions.

And that's what internists and obesity medicine can actually do. What do you think is the biggest hormonal or biological factor that's influencing someone's ability to lose weight or not? I know that's loaded probably. Yeah, I don't know. I know a lot of them, right? I know a lot of them from a very intense scientific and biological standpoint and a physiological standpoint. And I just don't know what it is for it. Cause it's different for each person. That's why this field is a multi-billion dollar field

and multiple people can do it in different ways is because there's not one answer, right? There are thousands of answers. There's not as many answers for high blood pressure or for plaque within the actual arteries, right? You have plaque in the arteries. You got a couple answers for that. Like, you know, 10 different things and interventions we could do, maybe 20. In obesity medicine, there's hundreds, hundreds. That's why the field is so big. So which hormone is it? Is it GLP-1? Is it PYY? Is it CCK? Is it

adiponectin? Is it leptin, which was discovered in 1994? So all these other things were discovered after 1994. So 1994 was a minute ago. It was not very long ago that we discovered one of the most important hormonal gut markers that impacts weight, leptin. And so I think for us to think that we know them all, or we even know how they interact, or who they interact in, or when they start working. Is they start working at age five, at age 12, at age 30 when you have your baby? Do they interact when you twist your ankle? Do they interact with menopause? How do they change at that time? I don't know. What I do know is that it's complex and when you don't know the answer to something, when you don't know the

answer to something, the main thing you have is compassion. So for instance, we don't know the answer to something, when you don't know the answer to something, the main thing you have is compassion. Yeah. So for instance, we don't know the answer to pancreatic cancer, we don't. So what do we give people? We give them compassion. We don't tell them, you're, we just don't go, oh yeah, you're gonna die, see you, see you later.

We say, we're gonna do the best we can for you. We know we have nothing. We're gonna gonna do the best we can for you. We know we have nothing. We're gonna do the best that we can for you. So when you don't know stuff and you're humble enough to understand all of the biology and the pathophysiology, don't know it. Give people the best answer you can, which is compassion and care and the ability for them

to do as many things that make them feel good and make them healthy. I love that. The conversation's evolving. What's the thing that surprised you most about obesity medicine since you've started specializing in it? What surprised me was continually learning

how little people know about the psychological aspects and the need to understand bias, stigma, and compassion. Because the science is, as I said, interesting. We develop science every day and it's new and it's interesting and it's exciting and you can go in a lab and do research and take on fat cells and do that's that's fun but what's what was what continually boggles my mind is the inability for people to understand that they're biased everyone is biased and has an opinion of people living with obesity even people in with obesity themselves

and that lack of recognition of it puts you in a negative position to be able to truly help, even if you're a scientist or you're a dietician or you're a health coach. If you don't understand bias, stigma and discrimination, you don't understand the person that's in front of you. Well, I can just feel a collective like deep breath in

and exhale from our community. I think it's so important that you shared that because I think a lot of people feel that in their own way, obviously you from the professional side, but you know, and then from their their side, they've internalized so much and it's just kind of built up and thank you. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. Thank you for saying that. It's time for today's podcast sponsor

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That's terrific. Who are they for? The answer to that is I don't know. I keep on saying this, I don't know. The reason being is because it's an evolving field. If somebody, so what they told us, they've told us, and I'm part of these trials, but the trials are dictated by the FDA, the EMA,

and Health Canada telling us to stay in this lane. The lane is a BMI between 27 to 30 with one co-morbidity, i.e. a pre-diabetes or high blood pressure between 27 and 30. And then a BMI greater than 30, you don't need a co-morbidity for it. That's who they're supposed to be for. I don't agree with that. I don't agree with BMI. So BMI is a surrogate marker for a person's health and the body mass index, but the BMI cutoffs were designed for white European men, not for women, not for black women, not for Hispanic women, not for South Asians.

Those cutoffs were designed for white European men. So if you're a white European man, then that cutoff works relatively well for you, some of these guidelines do, but half of the world is not. And I think that we need to not use those guidelines. We need to use different types of ideas as to who could benefit.

If you have a BMI of 26, and you have a mom that has type 2 diabetes, you have pre-diabetes yourself, you have polycystic ovarian syndrome, you went up from BMI of 22 to 26 very quickly, and you're struggling, and you have a pedative, a pedative meaning food noise in your head and it's challenging you. Could you be a candidate for it? Sure you could.

If you wanted to. Because you have agency, you have autonomy. Could you use it for six months, for six weeks, for six years? Could you do what you wanted to do? Sure you could. As long as it's healthy. It's healthy, you do you. So who is it for? I don't really know. But I know that people should have the capacity to choose health, to choose something that could help them be healthier. And I don't think that is decided upon by strict lines.

People would say, well, obviously for people divided, decided upon by strict lines. People would say, well, it's obviously for people with much, much higher weight and at risk of shirt for them too, if they want it. But it doesn't have to be. What do you think is the future of obesity medicine? Like have we hit it? We've just got a ways to go. What do you think's coming down the pipeline? What's the future?

Well, I think there's two different things here. I think there's obesity medicine and obesity is defined as toxic or abnormal adipose tissue that's causing a dysfunction. So it's not about size, it's about the dysfunction. that those hormone markers and inflammatory markers are called adipokines. Adipo is the fat cell and kinds is this inflammation that goes around. We talk about cytokines a lot, people heard that word before, and then we start to talk about adipokines. So the toxic fat cells, which are in the central area, so central area of the belly, send messages throughout the entire body from the brain all the way down to the legs,

causing multiple diseases. If you've got a disease that's connected to the adipose cell, that's a least. That could be in a BMI of 24, a BMI of 45. It doesn't matter. That, for that, I think that medical intervention can be used. I think non-medical intervention can also be used here.

But here, there's more of a underlying definition that you could use it if you wanted to be able to help yourself to be healthier. The same way you can use high blood pressure medication, cholesterol lowering medication, someone has high cholesterol and they want to use a cholesterol lowering medication because they don't have a heart attack like their dad did, they can use it. So they can use it here. That's obesity. What's in the future for weight? I don't really know because I'm not necessarily a weight doctor, I'm an obesity medicine doctor

because I'm an internist. I do high blood pressure, kidney failure, lung disease. So what's in the pipeline for the world of weight management? Just I want to decrease my weight, I want to do this, I want to do that. I don't really know. That's a different specialty in a different area. Oh, okay. I was on your website last night and we're going to give the contact information for Sean's clinic, though you do have to be referred by your doctor. That's a conversation and then get referred. But you talked about the importance of the lifestyle piece of it. And you're very clear on that. And you've spoken about combining medication with lifestyle. How important is the, like the, for lack of a better word, the method

to support the structure behind the medication that people could be interested in taking? Yeah, I think as the medications become more and more popular, the emphasis on the lifestyle intervention is gonna become more and more popular, the emphasis on the lifestyle intervention is gonna become more and more necessary. So it was always there, but now just last week, a new nutritional guideline came up for people on GLP-1s. And it's from the states and they wrote a nutritional

guideline for people on GLP-1s. To me, I don't even know what that exactly means because I think it should be the nutritional guideline for everybody. I think eating high proteins, using your muscles and ripping your muscles, getting good fiber, going to having bowel movements properly, getting proper sleep.

When did that become for GLP-1s? It's for, it is for everybody. Maybe there's more of an emphasis on it when you're on a GLP-1, you have a bit of a reminder, oh, I'm on this medication, so I better do all of those things. Yes, great, give that reminder, but don't pretend that it's something

that is radically different from other healthy behaviors. So it's not just for GLP-1. So I'm not a big fan of that. But when people do have bariatric surgery or are on GLP-1s, I do try to say, let's remind ourselves of this. Let's emphasize it. Let's not forget, because we don't want to lose the muscle mass.

You always should have had high protein and ripping muscles. But now that we're in this zone, let's, and you have this coach around to help you out, let's remember it. It just occurred to me that gastric bypass used to be the conversation. That's what everyone was talking about. That was the go-to.

Do you think that the weight loss medications are replacing that or are going to replace that or are we talking two completely different things here? No, it is going to have an impact on it and it should, right? Because it's a safer method. It's a method where you have choice, where you can be on it or off of it if you wanted to, whatever you want to actually do. When you have gastric bypass surgery, it's invasive.

You can die on the table. You could die years later or months later because it's a surgery. You can die from getting your gallbladder out, but you gotta get your gallbladder out. If it explodes here, it's almost like an elective decision and you can risk death. My aunt died two years after gastric bypass surgery

and she was 56. So, now the decision to go to have bariatric surgery was the good decision, like the family supported it. It was, we still felt that it was the right decision. She was living with significant obesity, it was a big challenge, et cetera. And she did well during that timeframe. Two years later, she developed adhesions,

so scar tissue that to go in and try to rip off so scar tissue. They have to go in and try to rip off the scar tissue and then she ended up passing away young, as a young person, right? I mean, she wasn't, she's not in her 80s or 70s or anything like that, she was, you know. So you can see that this is, it's real, but I mean, I'm giving you a bad case.

I've gotten thousands of good cases, thousands and thousands of great cases where people's entire lives are completely changed. Yet, yet it's a risk for all those people that lives have changed and have done great. It was a risk that they had to take and their families had to buy into it and everybody had to be on board.

So is it taking away from bariatric surgery? Absolutely, and it should, particularly at those lower levels. If you have a BMI of 70 and you have severe obesity with severe complications, you probably need bariatric surgery, right? I don't know how many people online are listening right now who are no people with BMI's of 70, 80, or 90.

Those people exist. You don't see them very much because they can't get out of their house, but they're real. And they need intervention. They need it just as much as anybody else does. So we're happy that this type of thing is still occurring, can still happen, and can still happen,

and can still help people who really need it. Yeah, I think people understand extreme cases, the impact of carrying excess fat on their body, but what about like this, the everyday person? Can you talk about the impact of carrying excess fat? Something I don't like to dwell on because I figure people are here and they're trying to do something about it,

but if there's something that you wanna, like how would you kind of get people to understand why they wanna make change and why carrying excess fat is not the healthiest? Like what are you seeing the impact on the body? Yeah, and I guess for a lot of times, I think the definition has to be what we mean by excess fat. So excess fat that's causing disease.

So if it's excess fat that is causing your knee to go like this and cause a big problem, then that's an issue. That's a problem that you may want to look at and fix. If it's toxic fat that's sending negative inflammatory markers to your coronary arteries and putting you at risk If it's toxic fat that's sending negative inflammatory markers to your coronary arteries and putting you at risk of a heart attack, then you may want to improve that

so you can stick around for your grandkids. So those are the things that, so if you can measure it, and as physicians, we're good at measuring stuff measure your blood pressure if someone has a hard big belly and their blood pressure is high there's a good chance that this hard big belly is adding to their blood pressure that's elevated if their hemoglobin a1c is which is their blood sugar content is super high and they've got a belly with toxic adipose tissue in it, it's pretty sure that those toxic cells are heading to the pancreas and causing a problem to the muscle cells.

So in those circumstances, getting the weight down in those areas that are toxic will be beneficial. There's not a doubt it's beneficial regardless of how you do it. Whether you do it through diet, not a doubt. It's beneficial regardless of how you do it, whether you do it through diet, medications, surgery, the blood pressure goes down, the hemoglobin A1c goes down, the fatty liver goes down. That's where not, nobody debates it. Everyone knows that that's true, always the question is, is how long does the high blood pressure go down for or the fatty liver or the heart disease or the hemoglobin A1c? If it goes down for six weeks and pops back up, then that is where we're running into problems. And that's where psychological long-term interventions to remind yourself that

you're good. That's why doing the GenoLivy program over and over again. Because some people are like, I'm doing it for the seventh time. Yeah, please do it for the 70th time. Keep on doing it because there's never a time that we don't need it. Yeah, I love that. What is your, and thank you for saying that. I'm honestly honored, my goodness in Florida. I do like to do good things around here. We're just trying to help people just do their best and give them guidance. And thank goodness we have incredible guests like you that

come on and Sandy Vann and Sandra Alia that we've all met kind of through you. What do you think is like, what are the top things you would suggest or eliminate for someone to try to be as healthy as possible? What do you think are the most important things? Yeah, again, I think that's going to vary for every person, individual. It could be, the elimination could be not listening

to negative people anymore. Making a conscious decision that somebody who tells me, oh, I see you're trying to do a dietary measure. You know what? Why don't you have these chia seeds that I have on a regular and they're, you know, the person's BMI is 23 and they're genetically, their whole family has a BMI of 20 22, you know that that doesn't help you Don't listen to that person try to be kind to them because they sometimes don't know what's going on

We could slowly nudge them into understanding that why those terminologies are bias and stigmatizing so I I wouldn't always start with like I need to to Start eating this food or do this type of exercise. I wouldn't start there. I would start at where am I in my life? I'd write down who cares about me. Write down the names. I write down the names of who loves you. So who loves you and they could and you know I'm doing this for myself. I'm not that's a dad. This is what I'm no no I want to know who loves you and they could and you know I'm doing this for myself I'm not that's a dive this is what I'm no no I want to know who loves you who cares about you cares if you wake up tomorrow morning and do you and and write down

those names and people have names and we put those put those names down and once we start to attach ourselves to to why we're important, why medicine and science and physicians who are helping us in the city and the government and why all these things are, we're worthy of them. We're worthy of the tax dollars that we have given to the government for our own healthcare. So for preventative health,

for dietary health, for activity health, why aren't they paying for interventions that help with activity for all people, not just on and on and on and on. That's where I would start with. I would start with the recognition that you matter and that you should ask, it shouldn't be a negative to ask for things

that are needed, that you need, that will help you to be a better person for society. What's interesting to our listeners, the other day when I had an opportunity to talk to Sean, it occurred to me he could totally go private and make a shit ton of money. And I asked him, why don't you? Because he functions under the government and OHIP and whatnot. And I asked you, do you want to share your answer?

Yeah, when I first started this field, I really felt that there was a need for us to be cared for, for the government and for society to recognize that people living with obesity are worth our time and effort and our tax dollars are worth taking care of. From a preventative standpoint, from a treatment standpoint, you got to the level where you need treatment, you deserve care. And as an internist, I have the option and the capacity to be able to use to have

access to OHIP. Now, the OHIP dollars are tiny. They're Dougie Ford OHIP dollars. So it's not like it's a lot of money. But within that, you know, do the best that you possibly can. Keep it publicly funded so everyone can access it. I want the Indigenous community to access it. I want that immigrant who works at Amazon overnight to be able to actually access it. I don't want it to be for the haves, and which is why I love your program, Gina, and I remember listening to it on Dragon's Den, when you said $75, they all went, what? And everybody does that, why? Cause you're making it accessible to almost everybody.

If that isn't a tenant of altruism and of going into this field, then I don't know what is. So every day I wake up thinking, oh man, to keep the clinic open, I just need a few more funds. Maybe I'll just ask people for some money and then I remember why I did this and what I did it for. I'm like, it's okay that it's not a profitable centre. It's a good centre. It does good things and it allows me to do other things. Speak internationally, do talks,

talk about bias, stigma, and discrimination. Talk about love and compassion. It allows me to do all of that. Speaking of speaking, Dr. Sean is gonna be at the Obesity Matters Conference this Sunday. It's called Your Health Matters Summit. It's this Sunday, June 8th. You can head over to, I believe, obesity.slash or what is that dash obesity dash matters calm. I love them.

I love the people at obesity matters. I think what people don't realize is there's a lot of resources available for them that are free to use and free to access. So Sean is going to be speaking there. So if you want to pick up tickets, I believe there are still some available for the Your Health Matters Summit. Take away today, Sean, thank you so much. I am just, I'm listening to the God love you Sean, Dr. Wharton, the world needs more Dr. Wharton's,artons. People just, they absolutely are so grateful for you taking the time, because we know you're a busy man.

If there could be one piece of advice or takeaway for our members on their weight loss journey, what would it be? Parting words from Dr. Sean Wharton. Yeah, it's important, I know that, obviously I'm an internist, if you look up my name, you're gonna see it attached to all of the medications and all of the interventions from a medical standpoint. So the question is, Sean,

why didn't you talk about that throughout the entire podcast? 45 minutes and not once did you bring up the specific medications, how they work, what weight loss is going to happen, what the percentages are, is because that is evolving science, it's always going to happen. That's like, I can barely even tell you enough about it, because it changes so often, and it's more so now that we need to understand how we're using it, why we are using it,

and how we care about ourselves. So as this moves faster and faster, talk less and less about the medication and talk more and more about self-love and about accepting love. So if that's a message I can give, it's don't get caught up on the fast moving interventions and the social media.

Stick to the principles of being cared for and autonomy and agency that you have the ability to make choice. Don't let people dictate your path. Get the information, get the knowledge and then you choose and work with people who care about you. My goodness. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Again, if you want to reach out to Sean, you can check out his website, wartanmedicalclinic.com. Although just a reminder,

you do need a referral through your doctor. You can also follow him, I believe on Instagram, Dr. Sean Wharton. Dr. Sean Wharton. I think you're over there sharing some tips and whatnot. I appreciate you. I don't want this conversation to end. Please come back, I guess as the science changes and things evolve, we are changing

and we are evolving around here. We absolutely don't pretend to know it all, but darn it, we're doing our best. Thanks for everyone who joined us live or listening after the fact. Again, thank you, Dr. Sean Wharton, I appreciate you. Take care, thank you, Dr. Sean Warden. I appreciate you. Take care. Thank you, Gina. I appreciate it.