The Livy Method Podcast - Let's Talk Body Image and Self-Talk with Dr. Beverley David - Winter 2024

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

In this episode, recorded on February 27, 2024, Gina discusses body image and self-talk with Dr. Beverley David. Dr. Beverley is a Clinical Psychologist registered with the College of Psychologists of Ontario. She also holds a Ph.D. in Sleep Research (Insomnia) and a Master's in Health Psychology.You can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodwinter2024Topics covered:Introducing body image, self-talk and the thoughts we carry around10-30 % of Men, 20-40% of women report being dissatisfied with their body type Developmental psychology and at what age does it all begin We are human sponges, the role of social media and magazinesGrowing up seeing and confirming bias and beliefs Dieting and how do you perceive your body?  Body Image over your lifespan Self-esteem and self-worth; waiting on your weight to start your lifeSitting and enjoying the magic happening in the moment, stop comparing ourselvesBody image versus negative self-talk and how they are intertwinedYou are more than what you look like! Thinking negatively, feeling negative and the impact on your lifeDoing!!! Start to enjoy life Body positivity movement and how it got tied into weightFeeling judged and feeling attacked, and becoming very sensitive to commentsSpend time with yourself and be caring, be compassionate and be curious Capture and notice when words hurt, and ask yourself if you can replace those wordsHow do you know if you have body dysmorphia? Are you able to accurately assess yourselfFocus on feeling good in your clothes, matching your clothes to your personality, not your body  What can you do right now to shift the dialogue to a more positive one?Turning the volume up on other things, think differently to do differentPractice being more mindful and presentRe-learning to experience body positivityBe aware of how much time you spend on social mediaUsing your body for moments of joy because your body is so amazingCatch your emotions and look at how they are impacting youThings you want to be on the lookout for that may indicate you could use some extra support You are worthwhile, slow and steady wins the raceFind Dr. Beverley:https://www.yourpsychologycentre.ca/@drdrbeverleyTo learn more about The Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple,

and Amazon Music. You're going to have this ability to now reframe. Allow yourself time throughout the day to stress the fuck out. The thoughts and the feelings and the behavior cycle can start changing. Big, huge, massive conversation today. So big, I don't even know where to start with it. It's one thing, you know, it's hard enough to try to lose your weight, but you add in body image and that negative self-talk or dialogue that you got going on. And it just adds a whole other layer to it. We know that dieting is just not great for your physical health, your mental health. If you spend any time at all dieting, especially since a young age, chances are you got some

body image issues. You got some negative self-talk going on and here to help us through it figure it out give us some tips to navigate it dr beverly david is back hello good morning hello gina good morning good morning good morning oh you've made me panic with that introduction because it's big, isn't it? It is big, body image and what we're all carrying around in our thought systems. You know, and in so many ways we get triggered by it. Every day we wake up, how we feel, we go to get dressed, dressed we don't feel confident comfortable in our bodies we get on the scale and yes the scale is a great tool while you're trying to lose weight but you get triggered again you you know you leave for work you go out your door you see you know people

of all different shapes and sizes you see magazine covers you people on tv and you're bombarded with how to change and lose weight and get fit and you know you're never good enough and then you like you're really you can feel really beaten down you know in the first couple hours of your day every day how do we where do we start with this conversation well first of all I suppose it's important to know that we all have a body. We all share that common vehicle that through our lifetime, our body takes us through it. And how interesting that we come to just say so many negative things to this remarkable vehicle um because it's big it is a very big deal you know 20 to 40 percent of females will be dissatisfied and report body image dissatisfaction as will men 10 to 30 percent of men show body dissatisfaction 69 percent of boys adolescents will already be talking about being dissatisfied with their their body type and their body weight and it

and it can be different it can be different for men and women and we also know that within the community of LGBTQI and etc, we don't have enough data to understand how this is affecting everybody, because we all have these bodies. So yes, how do we deal with this um when I think back to developmental psychology it's really interesting to remember that when we're little you know to begin with we don't see ourselves in the mirror we don't even know that the mirror is there but around 6 to 18 months old we start smiling at this at this little little reflection smiling back at us, but we don't yet know who that is, you know, but we're really pleased to see them. And we'll be smiling and cheerful and optimistic. And then around 15 to 36 months of age, we start knowing that it's us. And that the experiment that we do with babies is

and you probably if you if the mums and dads out there have ever noticed this it'll be when you start noticing that the baby knows there's something on their nose or knows that they have a hat on so now they're able to see this reflection and know that's me and still we're really fond of that reflection so when does it go wrong when does it go wrong that then that reflection we see often the first you know like you said the moment we wake up a lot of us we might go to the bathroom and the first thing we do we might look in the mirror and then we often are very dissatisfied with what we see in that reflection um and it and that is the start of the day you're right that's the start of the day of thinking how am I going to feel about myself um so where does it

start what it starts you've talked already about. We know that social media has such an influence. We're soaking up, we're human sponges. From the moment we're born, we're influenced by the conversations around us. What we hear is good, bad, acceptable. What is perceived as beautiful what isn't and so we're listening and we're starting to create this idea of how to fit in you know how am I going to succeed and so if we have um number one heard things like you know you've got to be this shape to be successful you've got to be this tall or this muscular because remember it's not all about being thin and being trim because we've got to be thinking about everybody's a lot of men will be wanting to be muscular and wanting to have you know body fat lean they'll want to be tall so there's differences between and within genders that the many genders we are now coming to to recognize but if we're growing up hearing that you know well we've got to be this and we've got to be that um it's going to sink in and we're going to start believing it and then of

course we might start seeing things and confirming this because this is this is sort of a confirmation bias. Once we believe something, we start seeing it in the world. So we might start seeing that, oh, people are rewarded for looking that way. And people may be disadvantaged if they're looking another way. And so this creates the layers that starts confirming the beliefs. And of course, magazines, social media, movies, and it's really interesting to see how much data came out post COVID on how this accelerated and why this might be. Well, we were on social media media more we were starting to look at Instagram more and we were starting to see these figures that we started to think this is what I want this is the desirable appearance but of course we know that for a lot this is we can't achieve this you know the

Wolverines out there you know and interestingly you know last year was barbie and ken now we've all screwed and i intentionally say ken as well because what a brilliant movie but we know that that that figure of the barbies that many of us grew up with was just unobtainable we can't have legs you know six foot long and um and then a little torso and but we grew up with that thinking this is what we should look like this is the ideal and now bring thank goodness into the conversation comes ken because we also see that ken's is part of the story too what is a man supposed to look like? What is a, you know, and lots of people will say, what's a masculine? What is masculinity? So very interesting, and layered, very layered.

Yeah, I love that layers that confirm your belief. Because when we talk about weight loss, specifically, I don't know how many times I've heard or spoken to someone who's like, oh, my gosh, like, when you are 30, you're like, I thought I was fat when I was 20. I would love to look like when I was 20. Then when you're 40, you look back like, Oh, I looked amazing at 30. And I thought I was like, you know, I thought I was way overweight. I would love to be the way now that I was at 30. And then at 40, we look, you know, 50, we look back at 40 and just goes on and on and on but in the moment we can't see that no and I think go ahead no carry on because I like I like where you're

going with it well I was just going to say and especially when it comes to dieting people perceive that their their body hates them that their body is working against them because they've been trying to chase and achieve this goal but then it's so fascinating that you were achieving a goal when you were 30, that you were so unhappy with yourself. But when you're 40, you look back and think there was nothing wrong with me. A lot of people who started dieting at a very young age, look back at photos of themselves and be like, what was I I thinking I didn't need to go on a diet I looked I looked perfect just the way I was so so what is that all about why can't we recognize in the moment or you know oh my god I got so many questions especially because the whole body

positivity movement I got thoughts on that the way that body positivity has been tied into weight um I think it just it complic complicates, especially when people are trying to lose weight. It's interesting. And you, I say interesting too often. It's very fascinating, I should say, because there's lots of research even looking at how we change over the course of our lifetime, you know, and it's, I think being a female, I'm I'm connected to this idea that body dissatisfaction apparently is very stable through a woman's life. But the importance of appearance, which is slightly different, starts to decrease with age. Like we still might be not satisfied, but we put less importance on it. Now, when we look at the male research, there's very little done. There's not enough done for men yet, but at least we're starting to.

But one research study did show that, again, we don't know how our perception of body image changes across lifespan, but one suggested that at about 75 years old, that sometimes we, that the men stop worrying about it as much. So this is a long time. This is a long time. And I, I, I saw this wonderful clip with Emma Thompson the other day. I'm going to try and do something clever by sharing it with you and sharing it with Instagram. But she was saying, you know, somebody had said how brave she was because she did that movie where she was naked. And she said, no, it's really interesting. This is only brave because we haven't normalized it. People think this is brave, but this is my body. This is the vehicle that's taking me through my life.

And why are we spending so much time beating it up so much time on money, beating it up and looking at the flaws? And yes, you're right, I can testify that when I look at photographs from 10 and 20 years ago, I think what was I worrying about? But we're different once we're here, it's so much easier to look back in time because we're not in that moment of hypervigilance. And what we would call is sort of magnifying our flaws. Our eyes will go to these bits that we think that's wrong, that's wrong, that's wrong. And then we minimize the other bits. You know, we'll minimize that actually my nails are really nice or my feet are really spectacular like we we look to

those bits and then we decide okay the whole thing is wrong you know we're only looking at one piece of the puzzle sometimes um but that would be really good in a cognitive reframe to remember that to think hang on a minute I feel, you know, that I don't look good. Okay. And then I would say, okay, pause. And let's think about this. Did you think that same thing 10 years ago, or 20 years ago? And how sure were you then? Because you'll probably say I was sure I was definitely sure I was missing out on going to parties or I wouldn't go to the beach because I didn't want to, you know. So how sure were you then? So are you right now?

Could you be in the same trance? Could you be in the same loop where you're black and white thinking, you know, I'm all or nothing. I don't, this body isn't good enough for me. So it's a good experiment to do, do that. Get your photos out and think, how sure was I? Could anybody have convinced me? No, you know, they couldn't have, they couldn't have said it because we, we discard when we have a strong belief. I mean, so many people are waiting on their weight. So many people are waiting to start their lives, to live their lives, to love themselves, to love someone else when they lose their weight.

Yeah, that's a lot. What a brilliant sentence, waiting on their weight. It's interesting, isn't it? Because what's the difference between self-esteem and self-worth, okay? Because sometimes we start measuring successes by specific things, specific traits, skills, achievements, the salary, the house, the car, the marriage, the children, you know, et cetera, to external. And what self-worth is,

is knowing that regardless of whatever else is, you are always worthy. You always have value. And if we can remember that every day, that can be our thought every morning, to think this is the vehicle that I am carried around the world in for as long as I have. And I am always worthy and I'm always valuable because we are giving out where we are. We're waiting on things. We're waiting on the promotion. We're waiting on the bigger house. We're waiting on all of these things, you know, even through our children. We're waiting for them to get, you know, what the rep team or to, you know, to a prestigious university where we're not sitting in the here and now,

and noticing what do I have in the moment right now. And for the most part, and I know life is difficult, we're all juggling balls. But there's, there's always something magic that's happening. You know, something around us, even in the in the worst of situations you have yourself you have your imagination you might be able to daydream the sun is out um you have water in the tap hopefully these little things that I want people to collect help to to distract us and remind us to look for other things instead of just what's in the mirror and stop comparing ourselves you know because of course that speed that we can get our phone out and access sometimes these very um these bodies that we can't we just can't get, then we're forgetting that actually I have a body right here, right now.

And if we avoid spending so much time, that would be even an intervention to try not to spend as much time looking and comparing and thinking, I don't have that. I don't have that. Is it two separate things, your body image and your negative self-talk? It's probably related. I think that if you have a strong internal critic and inside voice that's very critical, it's likely it's going to rear its head there as well. You know, because if you have strong beliefs, I'm not good enough, or I don't live up to these expectations, then it's going to likely transfer to other things. And it's very, you know, I did a presentation on imposter syndrome. It's very similar to that. It's not knowing that you are you've got there, you've got you've got these skills you've developed you've you've got you've

you're more than what you look like but we might think oh no I I'm I'm not I'm less than I don't have this I don't have that um and then we start believing it because if we do spend too long in that space with that internal critic that then we start to believe well now we're going towards a slippery slope of possibly depression because now we're probably you know if we think of the cognitive behavioral therapy loop we're going to if we're thinking negatively and starting to feel sad and depressed and upset and shame and grief and loneliness then often we we stop doing things we don't go out we start cocooning we start missing out we don't put us uh you know foot forward how many people have told me i'm not going to go to the gym until I'm fit well it's again it's waiting it's waiting

for something to happen instead of thinking I'm just going to put one foot in front of the other you know that's that's about noticing that we actually have to not wait for motivation to arrive because often it doesn't if we're waiting for our insides like the inside out version of this waiting to feel inspired to go and do something we're often not going to do it we've just got we've got to believe that doing it doing the action so the outside in is what then revs us up you know and so I test, yes, last night with my sleep group to be thinking, if you think you're fatigued and then you think, okay, I better preserve my energy

because I'm so fatigued, what happens? Does it make you feel better? Or do you feel more fatigued and more lethargic and more, but if you move, we energize. So it's the same with this, when we think that we can't go to that beach, because, you know, everybody's going to look at me because we all think that. But we know we know if this if these many people are also unsatisfied, they're worrying about themselves. They're not worrying about you. So get to the beach, enjoy your life, move your body and have fun with it. Because that's one of the fastest ways to start moving these core beliefs. So we see the whole body positivity movement, right? And we see, you know, how am I going to

frame those people who are being body positive, and they're like, wear the bikini, you know, a beach body is anyone who's wearing a bikini at the beach, right? We can all be the beach body. But I think somehow the whole body positivity movement got tied into weight, where now you should love yourself the way that you are and you know, not want to lose weight. And I think that's wrong. I think that you can absolutely love and you should love yourself the way that you are. And you're still allowed to want to make change, whether that's lose weight or go for a goal, change your hair, change your teeth. I don't know what it is.

I don't think just because you want to change your hair, change your teeth, change your body, lose weight means that you don't necessarily love yourself. So then what's the difference between like loving yourself is the same thing, loving yourself and embody positivity. What are your thoughts on that? I think that goes back to that difference between the self-worth and self-esteem. If you, if you start to think that if I look like this, that, you know, if I change, the only way I'm going to feel worthy is if I look like this, the only way I'm going to feel worthy is if I look like this, then we've got a mismatch. We want to have self-worth anyway. Whatever size, shape, height, color, age, whatever, we always are important. We are always lovablevable and that is just unconditional and we can say

and I'd like to feel fit I'd like to look after my body I'd like to be able to move I'd like to be able to play with my grandkids I'd like to be able to get through my day with less creaks and aches because we we know we've got to look after this body, you know, we look after our cars better than we look after our bodies, you know, and so we want to preserve this. And so I'd say, of course, you are lovable, whatever size. So body positivity, it's really, I don't know whether I'd use the word body positivity I'd say human worthiness like inside positivity I just want that person to feel good um and then they can think through you know what do I want in life do I want to change my job do I want to exercise more

do I want to be mindful of healthiness so then it becomes more healthy and more balanced instead of, you know, because we want to think, why do we get so angry at things like that? Like, no, that might be that might be hitting a nerve, you know. And of course, we have a lot of people will have grown up being criticized so if they're if they're told you know you could do you could move your body more or are you worried about xyz they might take that as criticism again and they're going to defend themselves because when we feel attacked we're going to attack back you know um and sometimes if we don't even attack back we attack attack ourselves, it can go internal. So if we perceive this person as judging us, even when they're not sometimes, you know, because again, like we said, once we think that people are, we're looking at this and this and this when actually they were just gazing they they were just looking around so we might get very sensitive to comments and sensitive to conversations so then we want to think okay what brought that up for me why why am i why why

is my defense coming up well i think that's that's really huge because I'm just sitting here thinking about how people feel going on a diet. We've heard from so many people who've been successful, yet their story is like, oh, I didn't tell anyone I was starting this diet. I didn't want anyone to know. And then, as you know, later in the program, it becomes a really big conversation when people are actually seeing results. And they're losing weight, they're feeling amazing. And yet they're having these awkward conversations with people. Some people want to talk about it.

Some people don't, or people start saying things to you that are upsetting. They're noticing, and that's upsetting. They're not noticing, and that's upsetting. They're saying something that's upsetting. They're not saying something that's upsetting. And that just adds a whole other layer when it comes to dieting specifically, I think is the kind of the stigma behind dieting, the feelings of dieting, all the past diets you've done, or who's seen you or who you who knew or who you told or whatever, like that's, that's not talk about layers that confirm beliefs. That's a lot of layers to work through with that. And a lot of it is leveling ourselves up. You can't change other people very easily. You can just spend time with yourself and start thinking gently, not so that you're preoccupied, but what will I say if, what will I say if somebody comments and decide how you want to proceed? Do you have to get stuck

like Velcro to this comment that somebody's made? Or can you know, people are going to say things, but I'm on my journey. You know, people say things all of the time. And let's see if we can let it just wash off like a duck's back, you know, just so that it doesn't stick to us. And it doesn't derail us. When it does stick to us. We want to think of wonder why? Be caring, be compassionate and be curious to think to yourself, I wonder why that stuck for me. And that's the work on thinking, okay, did it remind me of something that was said to me, I wonder why that stuck for me. And that's the work on thinking, okay, did it remind me of something that was said to me when I was young? Is it what I say to myself all of the time? So they just confirmed my worst beliefs, and then sit with it and think, is it

accurate? Is it true? Is do I have other evidence against this or for this idea. Because we often blame others for making us feel something, but it's us. It's how we interpret it. When we are in a good mood, when we are feeling energized, people can say stuff and we don't hear it. It just bounces back off. You know, so don't play the tennis game.

Somebody's bringing you into the court to have a nasty game. Just put the tennis racket down and walk off metaphorically. There's a comment here. There's so many comments. But last weekend, we had a potluck at my daughter's to celebrate some birthdays. They were doing pizza and charcuterie. I volunteered a salad and brought along some protein, some chicken, because I didn't want to eat the pizza and other munchies. I was really hurt and shocked when one of my daughters said to me, Oh mom, just stop it. So this is really interesting because that is like, you are doing something good for yourself.

You want to honor where you are at, what you are working towards. You shouldn't have to want the pizza. You shouldn't have to eat the pizza. If you don't want the pizza, it'd be no different. If you, I don't know, you're allergic to something and you brought your own food because you couldn't eat this or you couldn't eat that. But then there's also the hurt part of that. Like, you know, and I'm thinking, I think, I mean, forget body positivity movement. It should be the self-worth movement. Yeah. And I'm thinking, does that come down to self-worth? What is, what does that feeling come down to? Like not honoring where you are what you are doing what's important to you what you need and then obviously that's a message I think that's

a learning opportunity when someone says something that's hurtful to us that's like okay why does that bother me I would have been like shut the fuck up I'm gonna eat my fucking salad I going to eat my fucking salad. Fuck off. You're in your inside voice, of course. But that's it. You got it, Gina. You wrote down, everybody probably wonders why I look down a lot. I write everything that Gina says down and just, I draw it. I write everything so there the bit I circled was oh mom stop stop it okay and so this sentence led to hurt okay so that's the piece just like you pulled out in the summary that's the bit we want to work on why did it hurt those are just words that somebody's flippant you know they're not they're not in our mind they're not in our they're not standing in our shoes they haven't and they're just saying something so you get to choose now how

do you feel about it because I want you to just go I'm not going to stop it I love this you know and keep calm and carry on proceed you know because when we then feel hurt that's going to have a chain reaction of domino so we want to catch it and notice it so that's brilliant that she did I want to think how many people have because that's maybe something else how many people have said that to her like oh stop it have they said it to her when she's had ideas have they said it to her when she wanted to maybe get a promotion or move or pick a partner have people told it oh stop it have they have they minimized her sort of her own autonomy her own mind her own instincts and lean into that but don't take it as you know a reason to reason to stop this, just to think, actually,

if I'd have been in that party, I'd have been so happy for the salad and the protein and hip hip hooray, you know, but that's the piece of what I would urge everybody to be doing that, that was a brilliant catch to be going, this happened then there was this exchange and the feeling the emotion that came up for me was hurt why did I feel hurt what was I thinking you know it doesn't matter to her I don't matter to her she doesn't know what journey I'm on what was what thoughts up there were leading to the affect to the emotion and then think can we can we replace them what would you say to your friend you you know if you saw somebody else's daughter say it what would you say say oh don't listen to her don't listen to you you know they they don't

get it yet you know you'd be nice you'd you'd you'd help that person feel better. That's a good tip. That's a good tip. Okay, so I do want to talk about, because I want to go on to tips, right? We talked a lot about sort of where it comes from historically, how some people are dealing, like how it's coming up, why it's a big conversation.

I do want to get into like, what can you do? What are active steps that you can do to have a better body image? And also, you know, work through that negative dialogue. But I do want to talk about bodies dysmorphia. Okay, so how do you know if you have like body dysmorphia, or like not a I don't even know really what that is not a true sense of yourself, or you're not seeing yourself the way others are seeing you? And if so, how do you see yourself the way others see you? Pretty good definition, Jean, and that's good. And body image itself is that. It's how we perceive ourselves, whether or not it's what's in the mirror. Okay, so body image is what we think that is there so body dysmorphic disorder that would let's just hang on that for a second can you say that again because I think people think body image is like this is what I'm seeing and I'm supposed to accept what I'm seeing but really what you're seeing might not be the truth at all.

Yes, it's how we perceive our body. It's how body image represents a person's inside view of their body, their feelings, their perceptions, thoughts, beliefs about their body and how then they move it through the world. And it doesn't have to be directly related at all to your actual appearance. It's what we perceive. Okay. So exactly the same as those photographs, you know, we now perceive it differently, but it was the same body.

It was the same exact body. Like we were there, we were in that photograph, but now we perceive it differently. Wow. Okay. Wow. perceive it differently wow okay wow so when we think when we think of body dysmorphic disorder now in our diagnostic criteria it would fall in something called the obsessional compulsive and related disorders okay so even in that introduction you can you can hear that it's a repetitive thing. Okay, so it's something that's got a hook. So that word we often use is preoccupation. Okay, so when we're preoccupied, whether if we're

anxious, we're often preoccupied with what if this is going to happen. Okay, so this is a preoccupation with one or more perceived, remember the important word perceived, not a nice word, defects or flaws that no one else really will observe. And it would appear very slight to another person. So you might focus on something and be very preoccupied that somebody else probably won't be aware of, whether it's your teeth or your, you know, whatever part of your body. Then at some point, if you're fitting the diagnostic criteria, at some point, you will have performed some sort of repetitive behaviors like checking, mirror checking a lot, like checking, looking, maybe you're excessively grooming yourself you're seeking out reassurance and you're also

maybe repeating mental activities comparing yourself do i look like that person do i look like them you know how how are my arms compared to hers how are my thighs how's my muscles compared to his so we're comparing that's that comparison okay then there's always whenever we're diagnosing it means that there's clinical distress okay that means it's bothering you because you'd become you're coming to say this bothers me because it's interfering so what might it interfere with now it might interfere socially might not be going out okay occupationally you might not put yourself for a job or for a promotion and other things, relationships, you might not seek out a partner because you perceive this as a flaw.

And the last bit is that it's not better defined or understood when you consider like an eating disorder, which is in a different part of the diagnostic criteria. Okay, so it's not better explained by that. Okay. Now, there's also that part that we'll also talk about muscle dysmorphia. And that's that preoccupation with the idea that the body is too small, the build is too small and insufficiently muscular. So a lot of men will be presenting with that also. And then there's this qualifier at the end of the diagnostic clustering that will say, does that person have a good idea that this is there? Because some of us will, they'll say, I know, I know I'm wrong. I know I'm seeing stuff that other people don't see.

Or does it move into the poor insight? I don't see it. I see like you're wrong. Or does it even actually go into absent insight? Like, are you absolutely believing that you look this way instead of another way? And so that's how we would diagnose it um but it's so it's interesting it's a it's interesting because it adds up well it's good to know if people are dealing with something you know deeper and bigger than just you know self-worth or you know body image because they're comparing themselves to someone else or whatnot. Okay. So this is, this is interesting because so,

so many people have that story. And I had this too, where I didn't really think that there was anything wrong with me until someone pointed out that my legs look like tree trunks. And so many people hear that we hear from them like, Oh, I didn't have any idea how big I was until I saw that photo of myself. I didn't even really notice how big I was until I walked by that mirror. So that's like, Oh my gosh, like I had no idea. So there's that. And then you have people who have that confidence and they're bigger, but they actually, they don't see themselves as bigger. So they actually see themselves as being smaller than what they are. And then to add another layer to that, there's this, when people lose weight on the

program, it seems to, in my experience, take them a while before their brain catches up with where their body is at. Like they may buy a new pair of jeans. They pull the jeans out of the dryer and they're like, whose jeans are these? There's no way these fit me. Or they keep going to the plus size shops because they really don't believe that anything in the other shops are going to fit them. And so now I'm thinking when I'm thinking about that, what about along the way as people losing weight? Like, are they just not really owning it, noticing it, connecting with that? I know that was a lot. I just threw at you, but what's going on there? I stopped writing I was like I don't know um what came to mind was this this is a real thing

being being able to to accurately assess ourselves we're really poor at doing that um and there was a show oh I can't remember it it was what was his brilliant name he made my the glasses I wear what yeah I'll try and remember it but he would invite people to come that had had difficulties dissatisfied body image and one of the things he would do is he there would be a lineup of human beings males females whatever he would he was whoever he was working with he would find people that um they could uh identify with and he'd ask them to put themselves where they felt they were in you know body type okay it's a bit like when they say okay line up for your school photo in order of height okay so order of body type and it would be remarkable because often he would end up moving the person out and moving them right down to somewhere else where

they did not see that they were now Now, in this instance, it was, it was often that they were seeing themselves bigger. And you've said that sometimes, you know, we, you're right, some of us can imagine us bigger, some of ourselves can imagine ourselves smaller. But we're really, it's really hard to get that. And then that often, then they would look around and think, my goodness, well, I think this person think my goodness well I think this person is lovely and I think this person is lovely and an actual event they thought everybody was lovely they were realizing that wow don't we just beat on ourselves all of the time so this disconnect is real and I think it takes a little while you know it does take a little while because it that's even habitual that we we're very used to going into stores and you know taking the the size that we're used to off of the

rack you know and then for me I'm always confused because Canadian sizes are different to British so I never know what size they are which is kind of handy you know I have to ask the people for help um but I think that's just it's interesting to be mindful of that moment that if that happens and you think whose are these just to be just notice it to think wow they are mine and just do I feel good let's not concentrate on what size the number is don't do we feel good in our clothes we want to fit fit our clothes to our personality not just our body okay so we don't have to think that we've got to wear this you know you can wear baggy we can wear slimming we can wear tight we can whatever you want do you and now luckily the world is getting better at that

embracing everybody's style and fashion type um but yeah I would say also notice because when I even say dress for your personality you'll often notice when you're feeling funky you know when you just you know when we start dressing just in cozies or something like is that because we're feeling sad or down or wanting comfort? Or is that just because we like cozies? But be mindful of the choices we're making and how we feel in the clothes. I have this comment that I have a question for you. I had good body image when I was younger. Over time hearing you need to lose weight all the time from those closest to me gave me poor body image.

I would imagine you would also get that from you saying to yourself, I need to lose weight. I need to lose weight. How do I learn now to heal that? And is this possible? Have you ever met anyone who doesn't have any negative dialogue and anyone who just doesn't compare? They're just happy in their own skin. They're like, I'm amazing. is there hope I was gonna say my granny but my granny when she was talking to me about this would have been nearly 80 but she still could tell me what it was like when she was young you know when she'd say gosh it was hard and and her mum, my great granny Violet, would say, just walk in, head up, back straight, Sylve. And it was just so lovely. And my grampy, lovely grampy Ivor, granny would always say, Ivor, how do I look whenever they'd be going for an evening event?

And he'd always say, you look the best there, Sylve, what he you know and I just thought that's how we want to talk to ourselves you know how will I look you'll look the best there Sylve because inside that's where it matters um and so have I ever met anybody that's totally satisfied I probably have because probably those are the people that aren't telling me that they're not you know they're probably everywhere but we just don't know um and then would we be nice to them because how quick are we to be like oh so as quick as quick as we are to say let's all let's all be kind when somebody's confident we knock them off their like it's we're complicated human beings because as soon as you said that I'm like oh yeah okay well yeah this is fine

nobody likes anything into you know in extremes we don't want to be too pretty and to this and to that we don't want to yeah it hard. Human, humaning is very difficult. Well, I love your granny because it just speaks volumes about, um, there probably wasn't social media when your granny was young yet. She felt these things. I know it's really big. We're not going to solve this overnight. I have a feeling like self-worth is a whole other big conversation, but what can people do right now or start doing right now today to have, is it improve self-image and turn that negative, the constant negative dialogue into a more positive dialogue? So what are the things we can do right now that will help us get there eventually one day? So of course it's going to

take time because our brain will have laid down very fast neural pathways to that those ideas if we've thought something a lot it's going to want to go there so we want to just turn the volume up on other things because if we allow for the volume to come up then we're going to make it harder for us to hear that the sort of negative self-critical voice and start probably feeling different and then experiencing different you see because once we once we think different we do different and then we have more data and we think wow that was great you know I felt so good at that party and instead of what did I look like at that party just did I feel good at that party did I have like at that party? Just did I feel good at that party? Did I have fun at that event? And so things that we want to do would be things like, if I'm thinking through the tools,

that mindfulness always matters, of course, because mindfulness, staying in the present, being all about the here and now, allows us to notice if those thoughts arrive. If we're going through the world on autopilot, we're going to be a bit vulnerable to these automatic thoughts. I often call them NATs, negative automatic thoughts. So we want to be mindful enough every day in moments to get practicing thinking, I'm noticing my thoughts. I'm noticing how I felt.

Like the person that wrote in, I noticed I felt hurt. Okay, really brilliant because then you can think I'm going to review that later. So mindfulness, find us a script that you like, go online, that's the good things about, you know, the online world is that we can access mindfulness exercises with a tone of body, body image, if you want, to be mindful of the strength we have, the power we have, the resilience we have, because I want to cultivate a body appreciation. Like I really, I want to, we've got to relearn to experience body positivity from the inside, not what it looks like positivity, inside, relearn to experience body positivity from the inside, not what it looks like positivity inside, relearn to experience body positivity. And we want to then, you know, I always love knowing about my body, you know, to be thinking, wow, how do I touch things? How does perception work? This is remarkable. How is my immunity so incredible i have these you know

defenses against invaders of my body my skin is just remarkable you know it it keeps my temperature right it sweats if i need to it gets goosebumps if i need to billions of white blood cells take care of me to you know to stay alive so it's like redirecting some of our energy intentionally to the other bits of our incredible body our circulatory system our cardiovascular system our incredible brain you know it's only three pounds that's all it weighs is three pounds and it has 1 billion nerve endings, the finest computer ever to exist. So let's notice all of those things. And let's decide to do that. You know, we have to plan an intention to think I'm going to celebrate my body. And so there would be mindful exercises to do that. Thank you. Thank you for my hands that work today. Thank you for my heart

that beats. Thank you for my legs that carry me. Thank you for my teeth that chew my food. It's only when these things go wrong that we think, oh my goodness, I didn't appreciate it. I tore my rotator cuff last year and my goodness, like I wish I just loved it when I could have you know and you think oh um so love it now love what you have right now it's incredible um so what else I would say be weary be weary of how much time you spend on social media question the messages be be brave to be thinking okay I see this image but you know I want to think is it is it realistic is it you know what would I have to give up to look like that probably everything because to be able to go to work and have a family and have friends we don't how much do we want to just obsess over one part of something?

So what else I would, so this mindfulness, relaxing, pausing, getting outside, using your body for joy, because often we now don't do it. So I want you to go trampolining. I want you to go skydiving. I want you to go for a swim. I want you to start laughingdiving. I want you to go for a swim. I want you to start laughing because your body is so amazing. You know, appreciate that. Every time it goes to the toilet, I want you to think, wow, how do I know how to do that? My little brother just had his first baby, little baby boy, who was named after my grumpy,vor and um I remember that that you know when you have

the baby and you're like how do they know how to poo how do they know how to do this like we're so in awe of this tiny little body that I want you to invite that into you now to think you are amazing we are amazing and so there's that and then then, of course, whatever, whenever I'm doing things, I want you to always be mindful of the cognitive behavioral therapy loop. Spend time on your thoughts. Catch them. Question them. Compassionately with curiosity. Catch your emotions. Am I feeling hurt? Am I feeling sad? Am I feeling lonely? Am I feeling hurt am I feeling sad am I feeling lonely am I feeling worthless and think what's the link what am I thinking up here to make that what am I doing about it are these thoughts and feelings stopping me like are they just keeping me on the couch are they stopping me from going out to the beach or going to that party or going putting my name into the that job fear what's it doing because it probably is contributing and perpetuating the funk we've got we got to think let's do something um and then use our body that's that physiological part of

the loop is is the more we use it the more energy we create okay the less we use it the more fatigue we we feel and perceive and catch those moments like you the very start you were that you're you're the person that wrote in gave us that beautiful example of something happened and they felt hurt now we can control that if we pause and think okay how would i how do i want to feel about this why do i feel this way and notice things that's probably it but yeah if you but if you if anything in that diagnostic list stood out you you know of course people should go to seek some some extra support, you know, things things that you want to be on the lookout for, even in yourself, things like that preoccupation. Sometimes we will see people over exercising and that might look like people working out despite injury or illness. So if you start noticing someone is doing that, if you're unable to stop because you start suffering

withdrawal from, you know, if somebody says, oh no, you've got to eat this, do you get withdrawal from not measuring it out or do you get withdrawal from not being able to exercise you will often do things in secret you might exercise in secret and you might have a very you know preoccupation with exactly what's going in too much too much focus on on calorie and diet yes and you might miss out on things you might not go to things to social events. And especially it's interesting that interfere with the schedule. You might say, oh, I can't go because I've got to eat then. Or I can't go because I've got to work out then. So now your whole world has started centering around it.

Well, I always say that this program is such a good thing to obsess about. Prioritizing yourself, bringing awareness, being in tune, eating healthy foods, managing your stress, manage your sleep. But to your point, there's a whole other kind of level of that kind of, I don't want to say obsessive is the right word, but if it's all consuming, then you might know that you've got something a little bit deeper going on. That's what I love about these conversations is really about bringing awareness. What you said about, you know, it's about relearning to experience body positivity. And I think social media is like, oh, you should just be body positive when like, it's so fleeting and you know, okay, great for a moment you snap a pic and then you're like, oh, I'm so fat and I'm this and whatever relearning, uh, to experience body

positivity. And I love that body appreciation. Start with body appreciation. So you may not be great at accepting your size right now or loving your size right now, but love the fact that you are able to walk out the door. Love the fact that you're able to breathe the air. Love the fact that you are still alive. Love the fact that you can move your arms when you talk, whatever that is. I love that.

And then I love the mind stuff, the bringing awareness to the thought. Capture it, whatever that is. I love that. And then I love the mind stuff that they, the bringing awareness to the thought, capture it, you know, cancel it. You talked about that, the three C's, um, correct it. And you know, the thing is the thing people might be listening, like, how do I fix it? How do I stop doing it today? How do I, and to your point, it's going to be a bit of a journey. And what I love about the living method and the fact that, you know, people are following the program, the process to not only lose weight, but all of the things that are brought up are brought up for you to be aware about. So if you are feeling a certain way, if someone says something to you, or you are thinking something negative about yourself or bring, have that thing, and then, you know, save that indulgence. And then if you can't have it

without being like, oh, that was delicious. I enjoyed that. And then that's it. Move it along. You know, when you got to berate yourself and get on yourself and you get on the scale the next day, and that completely dictates your mood rather than like, okay, that's my number collecting the data today. Off I go. Then there are things for you to work on and, you know, that's work on and work through. And, um, that's why I adore you. I love the conversations that we have. Of course we need another six hours probably to time is up. Um, so I'm going to leave you with the final word for everyone listening today. What do you want them to know about that self talk or body body image? What do you want them

to know about that? I think it has to be that you are worthwhile, you are valuable, you are always that, whatever you look like. And I think this program is really good because it is teaching that overall wellness, that holistic wellness, as opposed to appearance. It's not, we've got to know that we are more than that. So thank you.

Thank you for allowing the conversation to just to keep happening because it is, it's an ongoing conversation and it's an ongoing conversation with ourselves. So yes, slow and steady wins the race. Well, thank you for joining us. Thank you, as always, for your time, for your wisdom. Yourpsychologycenter.ca is where you can find Dr. Beverly or you can follow her on Instagram. She's given some fabulous tips. Dr. Dr. Beverly. I want to thank everyone who was watching with us live today, all of your comments, all of your questions. I want to thank everyone who's listening today. I hope that you've walked away feeling hopeful that you can, you can love yourself that much more. Here's a conversation. That conversation was so invaluable. We definitely

don't talk to ourselves as nicely as we talk to others. Yeah, I feel that I hear that. Well, let's all work on that together. Have a great day, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Dr. Beverly, as always. My goodness. Always looking forward to our next conversation.