The Livy Method Podcast - Let's Talk Learning to Make Change with Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer - Spring/Summer 2024

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Gina chats with best-selling author and learning expert Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer about changing your perspective, prioritizing yourself, and learning to make change.You can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspringsummer2024Topics covered:Introducing Dr. Deena Kara ShafferWhere do we start when we talk about change? Gina discusses why the tweaks are so important Getting ready to make change, and building on to your houseSmall change can bring up big feelsLooking back at what food has been for youInviting therapeutic support Perseverance: How do you keep going? You are your own expert, uncovering what works for you. Is this tweak getting your attention?Honouring your big feels and continuing to move forwardWhat is in your repertoire to access more capacity?Are you feeling stuck and impatient, remember those tools you have in your toolboxHow are you taking care of yourself when life throws you a curveball?Sabotage and retreating to past patterns and behavioursGaining awareness and forgiving yourself for what got you through tough situations  Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda; Perspective and recognizing nothing is permanent. Going to the places we know when things are in fluxLearning to combine the challenges of life with healthfulness Recognizing that the changes are adding up and you are doing ok.What are your tells of not doing ok?Where to find Dr. Deena Kara [e-mail] learn more about the Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple,

and Amazon Music. summer runs, or playoff season meditations. Whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.

You're going to have this ability to now reframe. Allow yourself time throughout the day to stress the fuck out. The thoughts and the feelings and the behavior cycle can start changing. Although we try to make weight loss as easy as possible around here, it can be hard. We've talked about how weight loss is unlearning, relearning, learning new things. But more than that, it's also making change. It's on so many levels. Not an easy thing to do. Joining me today is our beloved guest, Dr. Dina Karashev, author of Feel Good Learning, learning strategist. Hi. Hi. Good morning. Hi, Dina. Hi, everyone. It's nice to be here. Hi, everyone. So you know the program. You've been with us for a while. For the last few weeks

of the program, people have been focused on following the food plan, making those initial changes. And now we're at the point of the program where what you eat and when changes and evolves, where we're actually making changes to the food plan itself. We are switching up the focus changes each week. And what I really love is that people are in a way, I love that people are resistant to the change changes they are to make moving forward, because I feel like they instinctually know that the changes that they've made so far are so good for their body. Like following that food plan, maximizing their efforts, managing their stress and sleep is just so good for your soul physically, mentally. And I love that people are resistant, especially with our first tweak, because it's

downsizing. And it most resembles a diet, which is really why it's our first tweak. It's less about eating less and more bringing up the feels. But people need to embrace the change. So where do we start with wrapping our heads around change, approaching change? Let's start with what you have to say about change. When we talk change, what do you think? I love being here. I love these conversations. It's so fun. What do I think about change? Yes. Oh, well, you know,

I guess part of it is like, on the one hand, I want to go all the way and lean in and embrace the kind of exciting, alive, spark filled, that thing that happens when it's like, ooh, there's something new. And I want to lean in to when we get scared and be like, let's pick at that. But I think in this context, I just want to remind people a little, like, this isn't the first change. We just started a new program like three weeks ago. So the making change thing, if it's feeling like, what, now we have to make change. Gina's come and messed it all up. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's like dial down the fear a little bit. We just started something new a couple of weeks ago and you did it. Like we all did it. We did it. So this isn't the first thing. And sometimes we really, we like,

get excited and motivated by newness, but other people are like, wait a minute, wait, I thought we had a thing, Gina. I thought we were like, it was smooth sailing. I understood what was going on. So for those people who are feeling that reluctance or that like that kind of deer caught in the headlights, what's this all about? Wait, wait. Like big exhale. We just did make change and you got on board. So you already have proof. You have lived proof, like proof of concept that you can do it, acclimate.

And the time goes by quickly, and things like really normalize in the body. And so this is not going to be different. It is a different tweak. It's a different ask. But the fundamental thing of like, here's a new thing. Here's all the information. Do you want to try it? We did it all right. So I have great faith that we can do it all right this time too so there is like it's like around what we're noticing and the energy we're bringing if we're bringing boatloads of like kind of big gasp uh-oh uh-oh if we're bringing uh-oh energy we can just remind ourselves we we've already started making change and it's going to iterate along the way and you're going to like do these things of like press these different buttons,

invite these different kind of opportunities. We're already like well into the change making journey. And this is like a hill, like a new vista. We got a new scenery, new landscape we're going to look at here. So I find that it replaces some of the fear and anxiousness with like, wait a minute, I actually have in my toolbox already practiced things for entering into change. Well, okay. This conversation is so important because as you're talking, I'm thinking about how as we go along and we introduce new tweaks. And the whole point is that the tweaks kind of get the body's attention. They're also there to push buttons, to bring up feel. So it's not just this week with downsizing, because what can happen is that people, they do one, one tweak, and then they drop weight. And then they're like, well, this is what works for me. And they're so resistant to move on to the next week. And really one week leads into the next and you're building. So it only gets

better. It only gets better. And so it's really important not to get stuck. Um, trust came up for me because it's the diet industry and we have new members. They don't know me. Sure. They know someone who's been successful maybe. And then again, that pushing the buttons, like, how do we, is there a way to get ready to make change? Like, Gina, that's what we've been doing. Like your whole beautiful house metaphor, right? So we're building a house. We're like, we have the tools.

We have the materials. We have instructions. We have like very clear instructions. We have the opportunities for checking in. We can like check in by live. We can check in by the app. We can check in with a buddy okay and now i feel as if we're going to continue with that metaphor you're asking us to like build out different rooms like what what's in this room over here

we're going to build like this little addition this little wing of our cabin cottage or if you really um live a more luxurious life and you've envisioned grander things than I, than the full mansion. But like, you're asking us to explore different pockets. That's where the learning comes in. It's like, what's in this room? I've really avoided this room before. I've never built a room like this before.

I've never worked with tools like these. I've never kind of looked underneath these floorboards. And that's what you're asking us to do. I mean, it was so beautiful listening to your spill the tea with Tina. Is that like you call her Tina? And she was talking about that. Now, the further into the program she goes, she's like, bring on the feels. I know I'm successful when I'm leaving nothing unearthed. I'm leaving nothing unexplored. I'm looking at childhood connections, the roles I played, how I've gotten here. And so right back to your question, how do we make change? I think it's like doing the work of what's going to support me in looking

under that floorboard? What's going to support me in pressing those buttons? And is it I feel a little safer when I have a pal? Do you need a pal? Because you can really find a pal in this program. Like pop on a live, you'll find a pal. Pop on Facebook group, you will find you will find people exactly like you, or not like you. And that makes it interesting. Yeah. Is it that you need to feel a little bit more informed? Some people are really like research oriented. I need to read the book cover to cover. I need to read the science posts and then I need to read it all again.

And then that's where my readiness, that trust sensation can grow back a little bit. Like, okay, this is such a sound program yeah for others change readiness it's around crafting a um not just a routine but a ritual here's this thing that i do every day and while tiny bits of it might change like what are we talking about here eating a couple bites less like what are we really talking about here we can we're talking about a small modification but actually the big reaction in like whoa why does this feel so much bigger than two bites why does this feel so big so what's going to support that when we feel unsteady when we feel like we're entering into that new room, what's going to accompany you to help you feel safe and like

you can do it. You can do it. Yeah, that hit big. The small change, the big feels. That's what I say to people. Nothing else is changing. You just literally are eating a few bites less. You're still eating more than what you need, eating five, six times a day, nutrient rich food compared to what you were probably eating before small changes, big, huge, massive fields. Do we need to really like, so I feel myself being resistant. Do I need to go back into like why my childhood or is it more focusing into like okay I recognize I'm I'm resistant so these are things I can do you know make a plan set intentions and a day reflections like is it everyone's different both are true look at that both are true okay so um so look so greatly of Dr. Beverly because because she's gonna's going to tease apart all the psychological things,

but here's what I can assure. Anytime we're going to go, is it like this or this? The answer is going to be both and more. So for some people, right. So for some people, it's absolutely going to be really going back and eating patterns and the

represent like what food represented the role of food as comfort, as scarcity, as punishment, as celebration, that looking into each of those, I mean, this is what you speak of all the time, the association piece. So understanding what food actually means in your world and along the years up until now. For some, the way that the few bites less is going to feel so loud and so noisy and so hard to cope with, then look at that. Isn't that an invitation to invite a therapeutic ally on your journey? For some, it's going to be, oh, like I'm a bit agitated. I'm making this about Gina. I'm making this about her program. I'm going to like, I'm going to storytell all about that. This, this doesn't work or this way. I was just in a

groove. I'm going to, Oh, look at that. I have, I'm noticing I'm taking a pause and this is within my wheelhouse. It's not bigger than that. I just, I have a long history with dieting and it hasn't been successful and it's made me feel so badly about myself. And it's not necessarily something I feel I need therapy for, but that's the thing that's here this week is like, wow, what a, what a ringer I've been through on this whole diet journey. I think I can give myself some tenderness about that. Of course, I feel worked up or alive with this change this week. Because look what I've been through. Look what I've tried. Look at the money and the hours and the time and the false promises and the you'll be successful. And then I was and it came at a cost or I wasn't. And then I thought it was my fault.

So of course, it's more than just a few bites for so many of us. Look what we have all been through. Look what we've been taught and mistaught. Yeah. So there's a comment here from Suzanne Rowling. She's a rock star on the program. I was so pumped to make positive change in my first program. Here I am in my ninth.

I find myself struggling to change once again, to continue the downward goal on my scale. I've been great at maintaining, but I still need to adjust and change. How do you, what's happening there? Is that a resistance to change? Is that I'm fucking tired of making change? Is it lack of motivation? Like when you've worked so hard and been so successful and nine groups in, like that first group was a long time, like two years ago, right? Like what's happening there? What do we do in that situation? Whether it's your, you know, your second or your third or your fourth or your 16th

group, how do we keep going and not just be like fuck this shit yeah what a beautiful question and I really cherish Suzanne's honesty and perseverance the the beauty of like no there's something still here for me that I want to explore so I'm a big believer in this world of so much expertise and so much commercialized expertise, we misremember that people are actually their own best experts. People can tap into their own wisdom. The conundrum is it's been tinkered with, where it's really hard to like feel our body, feel our intuition, feel our lived wisdom. But I very genuinely would ask Suzanne, if we could look at all nine as one experience of like, it's been difficult, we could look at

what the difference between group one was and then what happened. Or we could look contextually, like what happened in the season after your first group? Was it simply like complacency? I got this, the bits and bytes pile on, or did something happen in your life? I don't mean to like dig or, or like, I want to honor everyone's dignity, but for you to do that reflective work of, was it contextual? Was there an injury, a surgery, a life change? Was it simply like I got used to something, not quite bored with it, but like I stopped bringing those fresh eyes, the spirit of fresh eyes? Because you actually know yourself way, way better than any expert ever. You are your own expert. And so I think the practice like the net, the practice I would encourage is

if your surroundings are feeling very safe and there is a moment of quietude where you don't have to take care of any other human, even if it's for like nine and a half minutes, that's what it might look like in my life. Okay. Like I'm not imagining a luxurious retreat, like just nine and a half minutes. Yeah. Okay. What do you think? What do you honestly in your gut think is getting in your way? If we know, if we accept the research that's on Gina's program, and we know that on a fundamental physiological, it works. It works.

And she knows she can do it. She's done it. Yeah. So what's the thing. I will tell you, honestly, I feel like I have just uncovered the thing that works for me. Get a load of this, everyone. This is huge. This is like, like newsflash. Sleeping is great. Sleeping helps you not crave food all day. What? What? Yeah. So I have made a new, this is like life changing for me. I always have protected sleep, but because of how hard I work, because of how hard my husband works, because we have kids and we love time with them. And because

we're a bereaved family, we're shorthanded. I get like 20 minutes with my husband after our kids go to bed and we watch something, turn on whatever streaming. How long do you think I last? Maybe two, three minutes. And then it was like a little naplet. I have a little, I love like a little taster of a nap. That's not very great for my sleep. Right. Then I've got like just enough energy. Oh, so what did I say? You know, my love, I miss you during the day, but this actually isn't connection. And what I need to do is I need to just read beside you and then go to sleep and stay asleep. This is life changing for me. I said what I needed to have happen. I said, it doesn't, I, you don't need to do anything different, but it's taken me 43 years to understand that I need to go to bed a little earlier, maybe than the rest of my family. And that's going to be okay. I wouldn't apologize for it.

I'm not ashamed for it. So my question to you, Suzanne, is like, what's the thing that you kind of know? What's the thing that you haven't tried? I mean, how many within those 20 questions, how many within the sub questions, there's like hundreds of questions. If we took one or two each day and savor them and felt them out. And like, does this land, is this possible? Is this an unexplored territory for me? I don't think there's any shame in nine groups at all. There's something here ready for you to explore and ready for you to eat. If we turn perhaps the wisdom right back in and go, what's still here for me?

And if you haven't listened to this, build it to you this week. I encourage it because it's this story. It's like a beautiful version of a similar, an overlap of a story. Something's still here for me. And so maybe you'll find some kinship there. But keep going, keep going and see what, what might today bring for me to learn or unlearn here. This is what, yeah. I mean, gosh, I adore this conversation because it's the, I mean, the what to eat and when part, like this is why we get A-type people. And they just follow the rules,

for lack of a better word. They're not rules, they're guidelines. But they just do everything that's written in the book. And they're like, I lost my weight. Amazing, whatever. But then eventually they are challenged with their shit, their life stuff. It comes up. And what I'm doing is teaching people how to be self-aware, how to recognize, to, you know, work through. And this is why we have our lovely guests like you to help give us the tools. Here's one, this tweak from Heather. This tweak is definitely attention getting for me.

I was humming along and now I'm edgy and confronting the mental stuff that I believe is the key to getting where I want to go. It's, it's, but shit, it's surprisingly challenging. But shit, it's so surprisingly challenging. I am in love with your phrasing, Heather, attention getting, this is it. Attention getting, yes. This tweak has been attention getting. Here's why I love it so much. It's not full of like rage or resentment.

It's attention getting. Like there is a kind of almost benign quality that makes it not about the thing, but about the response. Yeah. Ain't that interesting? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm all on edge this week great that feels such a that feels really beautifully proportionate and like on the just on the

outer edge of discomfort that there's something there to explore yeah and also not beyond it that it's like oh I don't know if I can cope um with this or I don't know if this program works for me I'm cutting a runner yeah I mean no I had someone yesterday just saying like this is shit it's not working it's whatever and that they're all up in their field how do you have your feels because I always say you have to honor your feels right like even though people I tell people the scale will go up before it goes down fluctuations arectuations are normal. It takes time. It's normal if you haven't any lost yet. But man, those feels are so real.

How do we keep moving forward, unlearn, relearn, learn what we need to learn when we're having such big feels? I love that. Okay. So first, I think is just a helpful principle. And this is just like folks of spiritual practice, you'll know this. Like, we are not our feelings. We have them, and they're big. But there is a space between us and who we are and the changing nature of our feelings.

So I'll give an example. It's a meditation I used to lead. And I would lead it for my students when I lecture and around exam time, right? All the feels in exam time. How am I going to do? How's this going to affect my future? Will I get into the next year?

Will I get into grad school? How's this going to change my professional journey? Like we could substitute the different contexts. And it's like, oh, to be a human is like really to have attention, getting feelings and be on edge most of the time. Got it. For sure. Yeah. So one idea, one visualization we could all do is if you imagine yourself for a moment as a mountain, actually taking the shape of a mountain. Why a mountain? Mountain is sturdy and pretty much immovable. And then we imagine our feelings as the changing weather that swirls around the mountain. And

sometimes there are these beautiful crystal clear days and you can see for miles you have perspective and there are other days where there is blizzard swirling around us and we feel like we are caught up in it but we are not the blizzard we are the mountain so how do we deal with our big fields one is we try not to so closely identify them. And luckily, if we've been alive for more than a handful of years, we have enough lived experience to go, right, remember that time that I was like seething with anger? Jealousy was all in my body. I was bored out of my mind.

I was sad and crying in a puddle on the floor. Did any of those last? Yeah. None of them last. None of them are permanent. And so if we remind ourselves these feelings are not permanent, it doesn't mean we dismiss them. It doesn't mean that we diminish them. We just get to see them kind of in their place. Like, oh, that's interesting that this is here for me. That's interesting that this tweak, this ask from Gina, this guest, this provocation brought this alive to me. Okay, there's something there to look at. And then my, you know, I'm a learning strategist, which means I'm always interested in the how. So how do we live with that? How do we do our work?

How do we raise our kids? How do we go to the nursing home or the hospital where we're caregiving for somebody while we have our big feelings? So then of course, I want to ask what's in your repertoire that makes you feel at home in your body? Being able to like access more capacity where you are bigger than those feelings, like I see you feeling and in this moment, I actually have to go get groceries because I have to come and deliver them here and do this and this. So you're here. If I have time, I can journal. If not, I'm going to attend to you at the end of the day. I see you, I acknowledge you, but you can't actually eclipse my whole day. It can't be that I'm a jerk to everyone. It can't be that I just go and like quit the program because I'm so upset on this one day. Yeah. So what's in my repertoire? Have I explored contemplative practices? Have I explored reading? Have I explored journaling? Have I explored breath work? Have I explored movement that isn't like a punishing go to the gym, rah, rah, rah, but like movement that is slow or where you like feel like you inhabit each muscle and sort of

appendage in your body? What's the thing that makes you, is it connection? Is it calling a friend who makes you laugh and go, hey, I've seen you through all of the weather patterns. I've seen your storms and I love you and I'm here. And there's a you that is underneath the storms that is unchanging, the you that is you. And like, it'll come back. You'll remember, go do your day. You are loved. Like, you know, what's in your repertoire? What's in your repertoire?

What's in your repertoire? What's in your repertoire? What's in your repertoire? If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need,

whenever you need it. Find your push, find your power. Peloton, visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Hi, this is perfect timing. So Marie is here. Good morning, everyone. I'm frustrated. I can't seem to get past 46 pounds down. I'm drinking, you know, whatever, 165 ounces of water daily and being careful to what and how much food I'm eating. Can't move my body well right now. I have a sprained ankle in a brace. Any suggestions? So to me, I'm like, you've lost 46 pounds. You know what you need to do. We've talked about maximizing. It's not just moving your body. It's managing

your stress, your sleep. We've had the conversations why your weight might be slow, slower to move in this situation. It might be sprained ankle inflammation. Like it's not the food. Like I've answered this question a million times. It's not what she's looking for from me because she's already lost 46 pounds is not about the water. It's not about the food. It's not about the portions. It's not about the, the maximizing. It's none of those things. It's none of those things. So from your perspective, we have someone who's been successful. They, they're doing the things, they feel stuck. They feel limited. I feeling like there's a bit of like this, this past, I'm, this is hopeless. I'm not going to get there. I'm tired. There's that's the vibes that I'm getting. What do you, what do you, what's your perspective? Oh, well, I, when I, and hi, and I'm getting what do you what do you it's your perspective oh well I when I

and hi and I'm so sorry about your ankle and also congratulations on 40 second pounds there are people right now who are like oh right bravo yeah so when I hear that oh all that is in my heart is like what do you do what is in the fullness of your toolbox when life throws you a curveball like a sprained ankle? You had a plan. It was going to look like this. What to do when it looks like this. And then there goes that life.

Ooh, that life. That reminds us that we are in control of some things, but not everything. Now what? So when you are confronted by impatience or stuckness. Yes. So do we, like what I love is you haven't gained any weight in your stuckness. I love that you haven't undone what you have come to realize in a time of injury and recovery so something's really working I think it's also this is might really piss everyone off but like a kind of question of priorities I admire so much when people do this program and then they've got other very serious things happening and And no one is excluded from this program. You can do both. You can take care of yourself beautifully? Is it in the languaging and reassurance? You've gotten boatloads here, You're doing incredibly to maintain, to lose and maintain that. And while in the midst of an injury, I think that's what thousands of people here are dreaming

of, are exactly aiming for. So I do wonder, I do wonder about the opportunity for like when life throws you a shitty curve ball, what are the other tools you can turn to? That feels to me like one of the most beautiful opportunities here for many of us, for me in the past, for sure. It's been the delight of eating. That's a well-worn groove for many of us here, but you're trying, you're trying to make a new pattern, a new habit. How do I take care of myself? So is it that I'm doing movement with my arms? Is it that I'm insisting upon outdoor time and exposure to sunlight immersion in whatever

kind of natural or close to natural landscape as I can? Is it around, you know, my frustration is eased a little bit when I connect with others. So in this time of recovery, I'm going to make sure that I'm a little bit more social or I need much more rest. I'm treating myself as if it's a regular day, but like, I totally laid up here with my ankle. I haven't given myself any extra rest. So I would look at, if we look at the ankle as really just any curveball, any hurdle, any challenge, when things go astray from how perhaps you had hoped, what's in your wheelhouse that you can turn to? What are your non-negotiables?

What are your, like, it's not just coping, but soothing and entertaining. So it doesn't feel so frustrating. So it feels like you have just a little bit more, like, patient space. Would you say that I was just thinking of sabotage, right? Like that sort of, like, you're talking about setting yourself up for success,

recognizing what you need in that moment, adding, you know, creating those non-negotiables, prioritizing yourself, that sense of awareness. But what about if you're focused, I think the opposite of that is kind of sabotage, right? Where maybe you're not only just like not choosing not to see, you don't want to like, you don't want to dive into into that but you keep like repeating behaviors that are fulfilling your self-fulfilling prophecy of I can't do this this isn't going to work for me where where does sabotage land in this conversation I feel like sabotage to be honest is sitting on all of our shoulders all the time all the time all the time and sometimes it's loud and sometimes it's quiet, but I think it's so real.

And so what I'm amazed at is actually the beautiful advice. I mean, if we take Tina's advice, she practiced the antidote. I'm going to write out one thing I love about myself, one thing I appreciate, one thing I recognize. She's turning the focus so this guy doesn't get too big here it doesn't get too loud so I'm quite amazed actually again like 46 pounds and maintaining it through an injury the other way to say is like why why am I why am I not losing it's like gosh you're on like a a self-sabotage prevention program right now and you're winning like you yeah yeah you're nailing it so sabotage is so interesting these are very very deep hurts for so many of us

deep patterns and so i don't know sabotage it feels like another way of the pattern rearing its head yeah Yeah. With a student a couple of weeks ago, I've been working with him for a year and a half. And when I met him, he had just started his first year and he was having a tough time and reaching a kind of probation level where his, whether he could keep going was at risk. He's in a very intense program at post-secondary. And we'd worked this year. So I do holistic learning strategies. And so it's, yes, it's about how to manage your time and prioritize and take tests and study and all the rest, but it's also included. It's the same sleeping and movement and connection

with community exposure in the natural world, all the things that keep us well, it's no different if you're a student and sure enough, what happens? So he knows all of this. His marks went up. His stress went down. He's thriving. He reached a super hard course, super, super intense math course. He was feeling unsteady. What did he do? The same thing he did for all the years that led to that, like led to us meeting. Okay. So I'm going to spend hour after hour at the library. I'm going to rewrite out all my notes. I'm going to borrow from my sleep. None of these work. None of these will get a student into A, none of them. What happened? He got scared. And when he got scared, it's like we retreated to an earlier version of ourselves. And we just like, he knew, but he couldn't catch it.

What happened? Marks went down, stress went up, losing sleep, stopped eating. Like he really was not feeling well. Yeah, that cycle. So marks, so the final marks, not so great on the precipice calls me Dina. Dina, like it's, I was sleeping again. It's like I'd fallen, I'd fallen out of awareness. And so luckily the distance between him and those tools that he knows will help him

and uplift and get him back on track are so much closer now. He knows what to do. Yeah. What to do. The distance isn't so great. The chasm isn't so deep. We try again and we try again and forgive ourselves for those well-worn groups. How would we not have them? They were adaptive. They got us through tough situations. We forgive ourselves. I mean, you learn all of this from Dr. Beverly, this very, very smart, our bodies and our psyches are so smart in protecting us from the hard stuff. We're trying to arrive at a little bit more of a, like an awakened enlightened approach now. And at 80 and we're not going to have perfect days and who the crap cares about perfect. Cause it doesn't exist anyways.

Yeah. Because those cycles are tough. I was, we were talking about this last night, uh, in the live. And then when you fall back, you're learning the tools when you it's different when you keep going back into that pattern, but then you're bringing awareness to it because then you're recognizing. Like you're closing the gap, like you said. It was interesting. I had a conversation with my daughter today who we've been working really hard with, as you know. And she just, end of school year, the anniversary of their dad dying is on Sunday. I can see her falling back into that same cycle. I go into her

room. It's a mess. I'm just like, I know exactly where she is because I've seen it before. And I'm like, what are you doing? You're just repeating the same thing that you always do. So we, you know, we're like, what are we going to do? And so off she went rather than staying home. She was like, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to walk to school. I'm going to go do my test. And then I realized I'm in the same, I'm dealing with my own circle. I've got my back injury again. And last time I had my back injury, I said to myself, if I can just walk again, I'm going to be super healthy. I'm going to manage my stress. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. And I do it for a bit. I was saying last night, I feel like I'm in a well and I feel like I start climbing out of the well. Right. And then I get

like, okay, I can do this. And then something happens and I slip and I find myself at the bottom of the fucking well again. And I'm just like, oh fuck. And I know I can make the change and get out of it. But man, it is like, it feels like so far away, yet so close at the same time. And I think a lot of people struggle with this vicious cycle that they know that they are in, but it's, it's, it's strangely comfortable. Well, yeah, we're really well practiced. We're practiced being at the bottom of the well. We're all basically like PhDs and being at the bottom of the well. Yes. Guest experts, all of us.

So how do we get past the feeling like I should have done this? I should have done that. I could have done this like that. Cause that happens a lot in the program as we move forward. So what's going to happen in downsizing this week is people are like stressed out about it, freaking out about it, unsure about it. Next thing you know, bam, the week is done. And then what's going to happen in downsizing this week is people are like stressed out about it, freaking out about it, unsure about it. Next thing you know, bam, the week is done. And then what's going to happen on Monday? People are going to say to me, I could have done that better. Should I go back?

Should I repeat steps? Like now in hindsight, I totally could have done this differently, which people will have another chance to do it again. But how do we not do that? Or is there any hope for not doing it? Is there any hope? Boy, you know, I don't want to be that person who comes on, you know what, basically, no. You're screwed. Oh my gosh, is there any hope? Okay, so the first thing, and what's so beautiful is you're actually enacting it like the laughter that we can bring to this yeah oh my goodness boy we take it all so seriously you know yeah we do yeah so

we could just for a minute bring like the tiniest inkling of lightheartedness we're just doing our best so like i messed up those seven days out of all the days in my life I'm sorry I messed up a couple of meals within one week of the fullness of my life so we'll give it a dose of lightheartedness and perspective that's I think going to be a helpful tool in our toolbox always and I'm I think the second one is a reminder. It's not just literally, we're going to do this in a few weeks again, but that nothing is permanent. Nothing. We're not permanently in the well. Yeah. In the well for a bit, but how cool is it that we have so many more tools? Like we, we get it a little bit more. Get it a little bit more, get it a

little bit more each time. So I don't know, do the shoulda and the coulda help if they help motivate you? Fine. Like they're normal. We can say, thank you for showing up. And also like not helpful right now. I'm going to do this day and this day asks me to do this. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not going to add a layer of berating myself because then we're back into like the perfect land and the shaming stuff. Like that just, that, that doesn't help anybody do anything. Really. If you just take it out of your own self and you said to the most important, the most, like the sweetest, loveliest human in your life. Well, you really should, you fucked that up. Well, that's going to get them to do it better. So why? Right. And we all do it, but then we can catch it and go, I'm going to, I'm going to be like a touch kinder to myself than I would be my worst enemy. Like, how about that? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Falling

down the well. Seems to me anyone who's fallen down that well, isn't going quite as deep this time. Because I think they've got just a little bit more, a little bit more of that awareness. How did I wind up here this time? And I'm so sorry, Gina, but like, is there any wonder in this moment? So back injury, anniversary, really trying to shepherd the beautiful human through wrapping up school, like, and a high stress job. You're not like, you're not following someone else's direction. You are leading this ship. Yeah. You were just on Dragon's Day.

I'm so sorry. But like, who wouldn't for a hot minute be like i'm just gonna take a moment in this well i just need to rest for a second just keep jumping in just gonna have a rest at the bottom of the well little shade it's quiet down there there might be something to that there might be something to that where that is my like i can only take a moment when when i'm in the bottom of the well there might actually be some i'm just having an aha moment here i keep going back there because that's like my rest place it's a place you know it's a place i know and we go to the places that we know when everything is in flux and things feel hard. Yes. What a normal thing to do.

What a normal thing to do. Do I wish for you instead that that place you know is like going early to bed with a gravity blanket on? Yes. You know, like having done some restorative yoga and having five liters of of course. But like we're not going to judge each other for needing a moment to be in the well. Yeah. And then we get out of it. Yes. It's the getting out. Yeah. Sometimes you got to be in the well to recognize that you don't want to be in the well. You like, you've had enough. Like I've, I've had enough. I've come to the point where, okay, this was a really great like coping

strategy for me. Um, and whatever that is, some people it's indulging in foods. It's, it's drinking the wine. It's not, it's neglecting yourself, not taking time for yourself. I think sometimes we want our, our to, I get the sense that we're trying to physically match up to where we are mentally sometimes. It's like, we really want to honor how we're feeling. And we do that by trashing ourselves. I'm, I can only really honor my feels if I'm like so far in them that like everything in my life is represented of my feels. And with diets, it's big feels. People want this so bad. It means everything to them, everything that they do or don't do comes with big feels and it's like I think sometimes people

just want to be angry or sad or mad or and even when they're excited they sometimes celebrate by doing the thing that's gonna sabotage them and so it's a lot of big feels to a lot of big feels and there's a very interesting tension because this is fundamentally a healthful program yeah so you're asking us to do this like wide awake right full of intentions full of reflections we're moving we're connecting we're eating well we're drinking our water at the same time we might be going through a shit storm so we're bringing like we're like doing the shit storm healthfully which is a new combination for many of us so normally what we do is we go through the shit storm and we take it all down with us

yes rash and burn right like no but you're asking us like maybe, maybe the food, we keep it, like, simple and kind because it's not going to help with bereavement. It's not going to help with despairing anniversaries. It's not going to help when our kids are having a hard time. Like, it doesn't, there's no correlation between us staying up all night, drinking the extra wine, not exercising, running on overdrive stress. It doesn't help over here. So you're asking us to do something very difficult. So how do we do healthfulness when we sprain our ankle? How do we do healthfulness when our lives are, you know? Oof, that's good. This is Holly. She's like, yep, I need to revisit the well to understand that I'm not in it for the most part. So that brings me to my last question, which is like, it's one thing to know when we're

in the fucking well, but how do we measure the impact of change that we're making? How do we recognize our changes adding up? Like I know there's non-scale victories, but this is beyond just our clothes fitting better. Those, those physical things mentally, how are we measuring that this is all fucking worth it, that we are actually getting anywhere that we are actually making change. How do we like, how do we, how do we notice when we're not in the well, how do we notice when we're not in the well? Yeah. We know in the well, how do we notice when we're not in the well? How do we notice when we're not in the well? Yeah. We know in the well, how do we notice when we're not in the well? Yeah. I love this. And so people are going to come up with their own metrics. And some of them might be things like, I fell into that well again, but I wasn't there for quite as long. When I was out of it, when I was doing all of those health nourishing activities, I sustained them a little longer.

It wasn't just a kind of flash in the pan and then we're done. I really had a good run there. I can know that I'm doing okay because, you know, some stuff happened at work. Somebody said something to me and my family. I was actually able to process it enough to not have it interrupt my sleep. I prioritized my sleep and I slept well. You know, I had a tough day on Gina. I didn't drink as much water as I wanted to, or I had that evening snack, even though I didn't want to.

And I'm not actually going to make a two day streak of it. I'm not going to punish myself tomorrow. I'm not entertaining any language of, well, now I got to restrict the next day. I got to work out more the next day. I'm going to bring a sense of a kind of like peaceful awareness of, I know what to do the next day. It has nothing to do with any kind of like counterbalancing or punishment. I just know what helps my body thrive.

And so I think people, these are just some, but people begin to amass their own metrics of like, what's important to you? Are you a very reactive person? And there's an increased length in the time between the kind of emotion, the flare up and your response. That's a really important metric for many people. Or I'm in the well, but I'm not letting go of my non-negotiables. My non-negotiables are maybe things like, I always am going to move for half an hour a day,

whether like the varying intensity, I'm never ever going to borrow from my sleep. I'm always going to send a gratitude text every morning to remind myself and the people I love that we are here in this one short little life. I am always going to, and like fill in the blanks, you know, like what are the things that are really a top most important to you? So any of these and more can be metrics for like, am I doing okay? That's what I feel like you're asking me. Like when everything else is, am I doing okay? That's what I feel like you're asking me. Like when everything else is, am I doing okay? How do I know that I'm doing okay? I think those are some ways

you know you're doing okay. Yeah. Being patient with yourself, being more kind to yourself more. There's so, yes. I think it's taking the time to actually pay attention and to reflect and to ask yourself and notice. We're really good at noticing the things that we aren't doing or the things we aren't doing really well. And we're not really great at noticing the things that we are. And I love non-scale victories, but those tend to be more of the physical things. And we don't think of the mental side of things.

Okay. I love this conversation. Is there anything that I missed with it? Is there any like final words that you would like to add? Well, I mean, basically let's just like talk for the next four hours and we'll like all these kind humans with their question. Like, let's just keep going. But I will say this, that when you ask, am I doing okay?

I think we can turn it to like, what are the tells? What are your tells of not doing okay? So I'll give you one. Like I can know that I'm not really taking great care of myself when I'm snippy with my kids at the end of the day. I'm not a very snippy person. It's not constitutionally how I'm wound. But that snippiness is actually just deep exhaustion. And it is like the first cue of, we girl, like you need to rest. Yeah. You need to rest. Yeah. Next one for me is I'm, I'm, I mean, I teach non-toxic productivity. I teach people how to get their shit done. If I am feeling immobilized by like, Whoa, I've got this and this and this and this and this and this and this, and I'm actually immobilized by how much there is to do.

I don't even know where to start. I know that I've gone beyond the kind of healthful boundaries of accepting talks or like I've taken on too much. So the way that we can know, am I doing okay is, am I able to see my kids into the end of their evening with some kind of gentleness? Am I able to move through the kind of workflow in a non-panicked way? Then those are my, like, I'm just sharing mine. Those are mine of, I know I'm doing okay. I know that I'm in trouble if it's three o'clock and I'm like, what can I eat? I'm hungry.

Okay. Okay. Like, I know that I've not taken any moments for rest. So the relationship between my tells and then my response to them is really good information about that's the learning and learning that's yeah you know so that's why I love that I love the the the it's the it's like the body is communicating with you just like how you it does it physically communicates with you right on those physical things that you're doing it's like someone was talking about I'm having a hard time with downsizing well whatever you're thinking about and you're having a hard time with downsizing. Well, whatever you're thinking about and you're having a hard time with, that's the work there. That's the message for you there.

Why do you keep overeating? Why can't you leave food on your plate? What is the feels that you're showing up with? What is happening? It's just a matter of, and it's not just a matter of being aware and listening. I don't want to make it seem like it's that easy after having a whole hour long conversation. But that's the project. That's the actual project. That's the work. That's the work. Oh gosh. I could definitely talk with you for the next four hours. Anyone else need a nap now? That was a lot. It is. This whole program is a lot and it's not the food part. Every single time someone, I saw someone earlier saying every time they join us for our guest segments, they learn so much. I, you know, 30 years later, weight loss has been my life and I am still learning. I never not, I never want to stop learning. In fact, I'm in this thing. I'm

just hungry for more right now. Right. Like, and I just think I've gotten so much value and knowledge and from you. And who would have thought that learning, which makes so much sense now, is such an important part of weight loss. I adore you. I'm always so beyond grateful. Your book, Feel Good Learning, Dina Karashefer, PhD is available on Amazon. People are going to ask where to find you and to where to reach out to you. Do you see how Gina uplifts everyone in

our community? Thank you. You can follow me at Awaken Learning on Instagram. I try to contribute to social media for good, where I share strategies. And I'm very aware that now is the time of final assignments and exams, which is the same kind of thing. Like, ooh, look at all that panic. Look at all that overwhelm. Look at my relationship with learning and school. And so I have a whole team of people who really help. It's not tutoring. We're trying to do a kind of academic resilience coaching. So students get to understand themselves as learners and what they need to do school, not just successfully,

but sustainably and doably and compassionately. Like that's the point. That's the point. You don't have to like survive school. Yes. Which is mostly the people I meet. It's like, if I just get through, if I just get through, but if you just get through high school and then you're like, okay, then I'm, then I'm free when I'm in post-secondary, but then it happens. If I just get through post-secondary, then I'll get a job and it will be fine. If I just lose the weight, right. If I just lose the weight, that's not it.

I get it. So that's how we can interact. And thank you, kind community. You're so welcoming and warm. Thank you for your beautiful, heartfelt questions. And maybe I see some of you at this TED Talk I'm doing in a few weeks. I'm going. I will be there. I'm going. I'm going. Did you know Dr. Tina Kershaver is doing a TED Talk? Yes. It's June 7th, right? June 7th. June 7th. Come everyone. I'm going to need a really big hug. And I'm totally going to have that glass of wine after unapologetically. Send me the details on that. I'm going to add them to the post. People want to show up in the Rigney area. I adore you. Thank you so much.

Thanks to everyone who is joining us live and listening. Until next time. Bye, everyone. Thanks. Have a great day.