The Livy Method Podcast - Let's Talk Learning to Make Change with Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer - Winter 2024

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Gina chats with best-selling author and learning expert Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer about changing your perspective, prioritizing yourself, and learning to make change.You can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodwinter2024Topics covered:Welcoming back Dr. Deena Kara ShafferWhy is it so hard to make change?At this point in The Program, we have already done the bulk of the workBeing resistant to change is a big part of this week’s tweakThe point of this week is to disrupt your routineHow to turn learning into a habitHow to learn to trust the processIt’s not just about the number on the scaleThe benefit of data collection and journalingHow to move past regretAligning your hope with actionsReflection is just as important as preparationStrategies for moving forward while battling negative inner dialogueYou are not the problem and there is nothing wrong with youNon-negotiables in this context are about self-loveSmall changes that can change how you associate downsizingTools to prioritize yourself and this journeyHow do we measure success beyond the scale?The goal is to reach a place of calm both physically and mentallyWhere to find Dr. Deena Kara ShafferTo learn more about the Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple,

and Amazon Music. You're going to have this ability to now reframe. Allow yourself time throughout the day to stress the fuck out. The thoughts and the feelings and the behavior cycle can start changing. Trying to lose weight is truly learning to make change. In fact, my guest today, Dr. Dina Karashefer, learning strategist, author of the book, Feel Good Learning. You were just saying to me how you enjoy coming on because learning to make change is your jam. I mean, isn't that, isn't that, that's what it's all about really at the end of the day. Yes. And I don't know that any other human who tries to help people with their nutrition, hydration, embodiment, losing weight, feeling better in their bodies, talks about the learning part. There's so much that needs to be absorbed anew,

shifted around in how we think about what we've been doing, what we're going to do, how to get to where we want unlearned. So yeah, to be invited back and to be invited back to talk about learning. Yes, that's my jam. Yes. Full appreciation, Gina, team, community. Yes. All right. Well, let's get into it today. I mean, it's such a big conversation because when it comes to losing weight and making real change, it's about unlearning, relearning and learning new things. But if we break it down even more, for example, downsizing this week. So what I love is that people come into the program and it's changed for sure. And they learn to embrace change. And so after the last few weeks, people have been following the basic food plan.

They're getting used to that. Their body is getting used to it, starting to calm down from the stress of it. And just when we feel we have a handle on it, it's time to tweak it and make change. And in one sense, I love that people are so resistant to the downsizing tweak this week because they're like, whoa, wait, I'm not sure. Because they got so used to like giving their body what it needs and being in tune to their needs. But of course, we have to make changes in order to see change happen. So why is it so hard to make even the slightest change?

Where do we get started, Gina? Yes. I mean, how beautiful to honor from the get. It is hard to make change. Yeah. It is hard. It's uncomfortable. It's unsettling. Sometimes it's agitating. Sometimes it unearths deep, deep ouches and spirit injuries and traumas, both little T, big T.

So, heck yes, it's hard. Heck yes, it's hard. So the interesting thing is, I want to just, I want to be mindful of language with everyone when we're like, starting to make change. You folks are already doing it. You folks are starting the fourth week of the Libby Method. You're already doing it. So can we just like, sometimes we think we have, okay, so I got to start something new, a 30 day challenge. I got to switch my mind. So I got to fix this problem. I got to attend to this. Wait, you're already doing it. So just stay there for a moment. And when we think about change readiness, you're already like two or three steps in.

So if we think about what brought you here, you are feeling something, you are desiring change, you did some research either by asking a buddy or a coworker, whoa, you look fabulous and luminous, you look so good, you look so healthy, or you were grandmother googling something so then you then you thought about it you considered it right and then you took action you signed up you got the book you figured out the code on your phone you maybe figured out a schedule to catch the live so I just want to honor because because it's so effortful that actually a bulk of the effort's already been done. Yes. Right.

Can I stop right there? Because I want to show people the book. Because, for example, when I signed up, and you've had this conversation with us about utilizing the resources. And I want to just go into the book because and just show people where we are at in the book. Oh, this is the post tomorrow supporting the body and detox. So this is the first four weeks. And this is the rest. And let me wait, I got to go back in because I know there's people listening who are going to be listening to our podcast, they can't see this, but I'm just

showing our big ass 500 page book. And the first 164 pages are what we've covered already. And then it ends at 342 because the back is just recipes and science posts. So really, you've gone through half the information at this point, only four weeks in, right, and we still have another two months. So you're so correct in saying like, we've done the bulk of the work in the first four weeks. And then a lot of it is just repeating and showing up and making the changes that you need to make. This is why this is such an important conversation because you've laid that foundation. And this is where we are going to be making changes to the food plan each week. And we're going to implementing new tweaks and each week's going to have a bit of a different focus. And people are very quickly

realizing that the downsizing tweak this week really truly is about eating less and more about the issues and the feels that come up. And that being resistant to change is a big part of that as well. To be sure. And just, we already made some changes to how we went about our days, how much we were drinking water or not, what we were eating and when. So again, honoring that folks have already put in some serious effort already. And that was uncomfortable. Yes, we got used to it. Okay, we're week three. Can't it keep going? Well, not if, not if we want to see some of those shifts. And so why would we be resistant? Because it's effortful. It's hard work. It's extra. It takes more thinking. It's not yet a habit. It's not seamless. We need to, it's extra it takes more thinking it's not yet a habit it's not seamless so we need to it's like really acknowledging that to do the living method to to do any kind of protocol or process or system

that's going to actually impact our lives and for the better meaning will lead to a kind of upheaval of how we were doing things before because how we were doing things before obviously wasn't really jiving with our you know heartfelt desire with where we wanted to go with what we were hopeful for so to do that upheaval is going to be uncomfortable and who wouldn't resist discomfort? That's the most natural thing in the world. Well, I think that's it because people, they, they come in because they want to make change because what they were doing before wasn't working. And then after following the first four weeks of the program, they start to settle in and they're like, okay, I'm getting into this routine. I'm starting to feel better, I'm really starting to enjoy the

pro this process and, and the choices that I'm making. And then just when they get comfortable to that, we make that change. And then that's the thing, it's all about that routine that the body really loves and gets used to. And then physically, you're noticing the body reacting to the change, like downsizing this week, you might be a little bit more agitated, you might be, you know, a little hungry or feeling unsatisfied, really noticing that physical change, but then more so also that mental change as well. Right, where it can affect it can affect like how your mood at like you said, it's it's now it's put in more effort, just when you got it, we change it. But that kind of disruption is what makes you mentally, right? Start working through the things that you need to work through.

And that kind of disruption physically puts that challenge on the body for it to do what you want it to do, which is to better focus on fat loss, repair, rebuild, you know, make change at the end of the day. So it's good you get used to that routine. It's also good that we're disrupting it because it's bringing up the fields and it's challenging the body to make change. It's actually, I find to be one of the most beautiful and poignant weeks because yes, it often does something to the body. There's an aliveness happening for the body, but it's a deep practice. It's a deep inner practice because of our relationship with hunger and everyone's is

going to be so different. Everyone's history with hunger, what that messaging is, what it was like growing up, availability of food, what you were told around food, finishing, not like there's so much. And you talk about that. And so that is part of what comes up this week. What do I do when I'm uncomfortable? What are my practices? What are my go-tos when I feel a little bit aggravated or a lot aggravated?

When I'm annoyed, when I'm frustrated, when I'm a little angry, when I'm hangry. What are my other tools? Because there's the, there's the big feel of the change. And then there's the feels of that come up while making the change. The, you know, the, the fear of, you know, being hungry, food scarcity, food waste issues, you know, diet dialogues, this is the one week that's most like a diet. So those are like, it's that big, how do you deal with the big change first, so that you can turn up the volume on the feels? Yeah, yeah, it's such a good question. So and again, folks have been practicing some of these from the, from the beginning. So things like we actually want to turn learning and learning about and doing the living method

into a habit. And so how do we do that? Right. Cause, cause that, well, that's what makes it go a little bit on autopilot. That's what turns it from like, okay, I've got to read and I've got to listen. I've got to think I've got to recalibrate my day that moves it from all of that, like kind of cognitively demanding work into an easeful rhythm. That's ideally we want to get to an easeful rhythm. Okay. So we know about habit stacking where, okay, I'm going to read a little bit of Gina before my already established habit

in the morning. So I have my morning routine. And then right before I head out the door, I'm going to read this week's post, or I'm going to pop into the Facebook, I'm going to write my, you know, beginning of the day journal entry set my intentions, you're going to begin to incorporate new desired behaviors that you want to have become a habit into the sequences that are already established habit stacking. So you take what's already habit, you insert the new stuff, you practice it becomes a new habit. So that's one of the ways. Other ways. So it's sometimes it's helpful around mindset. That's like a practice and a protocol. What about mindset?

This beautiful line around follow the plan and not your mood. And that can be very helpful. So I don't mean don't follow or trust your emotions, but moods are states that pass. So when we say, well, I don't feel like doing Gina today, I don't feel like eating this way, I don't feel like downsizing. But what if we don't ask ourselves if we feel like it or not? Right? It's not about if we feel like it, because because actually we really felt like it when we signed up we like all the way we're right we wanted something we still want something but now is that like rubber hits the road so when it gets a little uncomfortable some people love downsizing they're like this is the easiest yeah it's not it's not the same for everyone because they like feeling

like they're active in making change. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, how do we honor the folks who are feeling like, oh, this is where I'm meeting myself this week. This is where I'm meeting where it just like the difficulty or the inner work that just got a little amplified. Right. And so what I don't want to come and just say, well, trust the process. We want people to trust the process. But how do we learn to trust the process? This whole week is about learning. I mean, the whole system is about learning. Right. Let's talk about that for a second, because I'm always like, I don't want people to have blind faith.

There is that you have to trust the process because you you've signed up to follow my program. I'm assuming trust my expertise and our guests and whatnot. So there is that you have to trust the process. But I'm also I'm not a fan of that blind faith either. Like people do need to be able to ask questions. It's not like just do what I say. So what can you just talk about that for a second? Yeah, it's so good. We want to get there. We want to get to a place where we can trust the process

and also trust our own bodies, trust our hunger cues, trust. But the reason that so many of us are here is because that trust has been broken. Right? So we want to repair the trust. We want to get to a place. How do we do that? Well, we lean, we lean on the program, we lean on the living room that we lean on. What am I what what is the sort of structure that has been given to me for this day in this week? And what would happen if I did something else with my frustration aside from like, I'm going to like complain bomb Facebook, or I'm just gonna, yeah, I'm not, I'm gonna do my own thing today. Actually, what are the, what are the wealth of other tools that have to do with movement, fresh air, nature, connection, community? What are the full spectrum of other things aside from food,

the negative ruts, and the old habits that aren't helpful that we can begin to incorporate and practice to support ourselves? Because ultimately it's like, but what happens in the future when times get tough, when things get stressful stressful when there are time crunches on our day and we can't eat when or what we want to so there's a deep inner work practice of this week right i think is so like such a beautiful opportunity and it agitates me i'll tell i it's it's my favorite not my favorite like it's it's the same favorite, you know, some people, they're talking about how they're waking up. They're having these feels. They're noticing changes in their body. Like it's not just like you're sitting there reading a book.

You're actively making these changes. So you're learning to do new things. Your body's responded. The feels are coming up. Like it's a lot. It's a lot. It is a lot it's a lot it is a lot and and sometimes people don't see change right away right returning members people on plateaus for all kinds of reasons so then we go what is the full arc of metrics that we're turning to is it just about a number on a scale or is it about how it feels to be in

your body, how it feels to be in your clothes, what your skin's looking like, your sleep, the mental chitter chatter, what are you saying to yourself? There are so many pieces of data that we can collect about how it's going. Aside from it's still an important one, but it's not the only important one, that scale piece. So there's a lot of data you can be collecting, even at this point, week four. Yeah, I love the data collection. Because I think when people talk about journaling, they're like in the moment and how they're feeling and maybe like getting that out or even setting intentions. Like these are the things I want to focus on each day. And then your end of day, you're reflecting on that. But then there's this like, while you are

journaling, you are collecting that data. And this is what I love about the app. We had a great conversation with the scale the other day where people are using the app and they're recording what they weigh every day, but they're not clicking the little icon right beside it that shows them the graph. And so in the moments they're seeing ups and downs and up and downs, or maybe that day they're just seeing it up and they're not able to see a big picture of all the data they've collected from recording their weight each day. And to be able to see not just the ups and downs and plateaus in their pattern, but to see that downward trend. And so I think data collection is just another great benefit

of journaling. And I don't think people think about collecting the data, right? Like not just what you're recording, but how you are feeling and what's happening and all of that. So you can reflect back. I think this is really handy too, because moving forward, when we, when we make these tweaks and talk this a little bit about this on the live yesterday, people always are so nervous about the week. And then they go through it, not sure questioning, have questions at the end of the week, they reflect back and they're like, I totally could have done that better. Like I totally, I should.

In fact, a lot of people start saying, should I go back and redo downsizing? And the reality is downsizing is only effective off the heels of eating dissatisfaction. So you can't just keep downsizing, downsizing, downsizing, downsizing. It just loses its impact, which is why when you are downsizing you'll notice you had that big reaction in the first few days when your body notices change and then your body calms down and starts to actually adjust to those smaller portions so how do we not have regrets how do we like be in the moment day to day so that we don't have any or is that even going to stop us from having or is that just a thought that regret of like, I could have done better. I should have done better. I guess like someone doing a test, they studied, they thought they knew it. They get their mark. They're like,

oh, I should have done this. Should have done that. How do we get, how do we get past that? Oh man, there's so much to talk about. Oh man, we're all so hard on ourselves oh we are hard on ourselves yeah so in a way i want to speak for a moment to folks who are new who might do that okay you might say i should have and i guess i just wonder about expectations when we do something new, especially something new that is counter to what we've done in the past, or that pings a little bit on the harmful parts of the past, right? Of like eat less, move more. This might feel a tiny bit like that, even though it's not. And so what still needs resolution, healing, repair.

And so I just feel like for folks who are hard on themselves around something new, can we soften the edges and turn down the volume a little bit, you will have another opportunity, you can do it again. This isn't the only shot at it. Why do we expect perfection right from the first moment? So what is there underneath that? And where else does that show up in your life that might be helpful to kind of loosen the grip, reminding yourself there actually is no such thing as perfection. You live in a body that sometimes hurts or gets injured. You live in a full constellation, whatever your family chosen family structure looks like.

You have a professional life. Like there's so much else going on. What is it that perfect would look like? Like it's that that isn't real. And then for returning members, that's the opportunity not for the should have or could have. I much prefer the language of choice points. Where were the choice points that when you do do it again, that you would just choose differently?

What a gentler invitation. I love that. Choose points. That's what I talk about people on weekends. So if you keep making choices on the weekend and every Monday, you're so disappointed and frustrated, whatever, you can't just be mad at yourself. You have to go back into that moment and say, Okay, what was my thought process? Why did I make that choice? What was I thinking? What did I? How did I think I was going to feel if I had that choice? And then what happened after I made this choice that was supposed to bring me

joy. And then you ended up berating yourself for hours. And then the next day you get on the scale and you're so disappointed. It's like looking back and being like, okay, what happened when I made that choice? And then I think when you're aware of that, you're less likely to make that choice again. I mean, you might make it another few times, another few times yeah but you're talking about like hope and action alignment right hope and choice alignment so i really really want something right that's why i'm here and then are my small micro choices in the day that i'm not I'm choosing actively to treat kindly with awareness that I live a full life with multiple demands. How might I choose differently next time and see the opportunity? That's the glimmer. That's where hope becomes a plan because hope in itself isn't a plan. No. And you could,

you could keep doing those weekends and be real angry on Monday. You could do those ad infinitum. Like you could keep doing it unless you actually want to get closer to the goals and desires and intentions that you have set for yourself, that you've articulated.

I'm not saying that that's easy, but that's where we have the like reflective piece and then we have the behavioral piece, right? So how can I make it easier for myself on the weekends? What would I need to do to shift in the structure? Is there something around meal planning? Is there something around communicating my needs to my family members or friends? Is there something I would need to shift in terms of bedtime, movement, time outside? What could I do in the behavior and actions, which is part of that change readiness, learning to make change? How could I actually structure like an architecture to the weekend to support feeling pretty good going into Monday?

I love this. This is kind of the middle piece because if we're talking dieting, people always talk about prepping, meal prep, being ready, making a plan, do all that. Weekend prep. That's great. But then without that data collection

and reflection part, you're kind of at a loss of what to do about it, which is really that middle part, right? Not just setting yourself up for success and food prepping, but really tackling the rest of it. How am I feeling? You know, what do I need to do in order to make the changes? Not just, you know, be prepared with my foods, but all the things that I'm working through at the same time. Oh my goodness. I love that. People do this around their emotions too, and around their actions. Now I come, I'm not a psychologist. I am all, I'm not a, I'm not in the movement, uh, and nutrition world. I am here as a learning person, as somebody who cares so deeply about how learning happens for

people and to make it less stressful, less suffering, much more sustainable. And so if we find ourselves doing the same things that we ultimately don't want to do on a weekend, if we find ourselves with the same dialogue over and over punishing ourselves on Monday, oh, if only, oh, it could have been different. So I'm so interested not to tell somebody, we'll just make it be different, make different choices. Oh, but that's so hard. how do we do it how do you because because uh dr beverly is going to join us on uh thursday and we're going to get into that you know why do you have that negative dialogue what what is the impact of she's a psychologist what is the impact of all those diets that you've done why are you so hard

on yourself and all of that? But from a learning perspective, you know, how do you do you have a strategy for how we continue to move forward and learn and absorb while we are having that negative diet while we're battling that negative dialogue? You know, I'm never going to be able to do this. I saw someone Oh, my my goodness poor thing came into the group today and she's just like I've just I've tried this three times I she never gets past a certain point she just feels like she's doomed forever to not be able to do it and I'm just like but of course you can do it like you have to eat you have to sleep you have to be like there's no reason why you can't but that's's what, and I didn't even,

I didn't even respond yet because I was like, I just need a whole minute. Like how would you even address someone that's just feeling so hopeless that it's impossible for them to do it. And because obviously they're dealing with big fields, they're clearly dealing with big fields getting in the way. So how do we, without, without you know psychoanalyzing ourselves yeah we'll do that on thursday yeah yeah you've asked it in the question right like what is getting in your way so step one would be actually sitting in a place of reflection

and we would want to make sure that like there's a place of safety. There's a place of deep groundedness because those those feelings are often so big and so uncomfortable. We're just going to go and push them away. But what do we actually we want to get into a state where we can go, oh, it is always this week. And it's always this sentence or this kind of logic that I'm applying. Yeah. What would help me move through this in a different way? What are things I've never tried? Right. And then we would go through, do you have a buddy in the program? Do you have a pal? Do you have a sense of community? Do you have a routine? Routines are so helpful when we're trying to make change, but it feels chaotic.

It feels like some days I can do it, some days I don't. In a way, it's almost like the language of protocol. So what's my protocol? I'm never going to skip Gina more than one day. If I'm off by one day, I'm never allowing myself two days. That way I never get derailed. I never off by one day, I'm never allowing myself two days. That way I never get derailed. I never miss a morning walk, no matter what. I never miss a podcast. So it becomes now the language of non-negotiables. What are the things that I commit to every day that I actually

don't reassess? I don't think about, I don't ask myself, do I feel like it? Because I know, I know I can trust my own wisdom that they make me feel good. They make me feel clear. They help me keep aligned with my desire, my, my hope, my intention, where I want to go. So if we can, if we over and over and over and over reassess, I think we're going to get stuck in that kind of ruminating loop. But what we sometimes need is right, we're leaning on, we're leaning on the community here, we're leaning on the very clear system that you have laid out for everyone. We're finding the right pathway. Is it the podcast? Is it the app? Is it the book? And then we stick to it. We don't have to tax our thinking so much. Like there's a

cognitive depletion, brain exhaustion that can happen if we are reassessing, okay, but do I want to do this? And what am I going to do? That's where the planning, that's where the autopilot, that's where the new habits, that's where habit stacking, that's where little and often, that's where follow the plan and not my changeable mood. All of those help support. They keep us going when we don't feel like it. I love it. I love it. I'm just seeing this comment here. It took me a few programs to realize I was trying to hide what I was doing from people,

friends, family, colleagues. So anytime I was around others, I'd go off plan. The groups I did when I had a lot of social engagement, I had less success. It takes time to figure things out sometimes, but if you keep moving forward, you find your way. And this is where everybody is different. Like you follow the program. It's going to work for you. It works for everybody, right? Maybe you have some special needs, like you have some health issues that you need to factor in and whatnot, but this is really about figuring out what you need, what kind of support you need, what best motivates you, what resources work best for you, you know, and that's why I love

our conversations with our amazing guests, because they're here to kind of, to share the tips and tricks and tools, but also more so just to bring awareness so that when you're really struggling, I'm like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I do this? Why can't I go out of my way? Why am I so irritable? Why am I so whatever? Like you're understanding why, um, you mentioned non-negotiables. So it's, this goes along with prioritizing yourself, which I think is for a lot of people, it's the hardest part of the program that they take the time that they need to take to do the things that they need to do. We actually talk about this a lot in maintenance, because now that people are no longer reaching a goal that

they can justify, they actually stop prioritizing themselves because they're like, oh, I took too much time to lose my weight. Even with a program, you know, going back to something you said where everyone feels like they should already know what to do. Like I've been a weight loss expert for 36 years. I'm really good. I could not do what you do. I could not do what a lot of our other members do as a career. There's this sense of like, I should know what I need to do. And then, and then with this, it's that feeling guilty that you are putting time into losing weight when you should already know what you need to do, or you shouldn't need to do this, or you've done it too

many times. And I think, you know, outside of outside of that, there's also the prioritizing everybody else in your life, right? You're the lowest person on the list each day. So how can you talk a little bit about prioritizing? Because you have to take the time to show up to do the things that you need to do when we're talking about today. So can we have two hours? I love talking about.

I'm going to need I'm'm gonna need a few minutes here so um the first thing I want to say just you said something so touching and then I promise I talk about prioritizing like I could talk all day about prioritizing I won't oh my gosh I won't um but just that like what's wrong with me piece that you said, you know, that people can fall into that trap of like, why can't it? Why isn't this working? Why can't I? Yeah. And just, I think you're being told every community member by every kind person, remarkable human on Gina's team. You are not the problem.

You are not the problem. You are not a problem. You are not a problem you are not the problem you are not a problem you are not a problem to be solved yeah yeah oof the culture the diet context the sales the gimmicks all of that the misrepresentation of science, like everything, the structure, that is the problem. And part of the work here is to really shift the responsibility. This isn't a moral failing. This is not a failing. And so I just like, it's for me, perhaps one of the most important messages, because if we do all of the things, but don't tend to any sense of shame, or the way that we've been injured by other systems that had us like exercise to the nth, that had us eat about this much every day, that had us like restrict,

eat this, not that like, it's so messes with our innate understanding it like it takes us away from culturally important foods and rituals like there's so much harm so much shame so I just you are not a problem I'll talk about but no I want to go into this comment because this is really fascinating because I was just reading some of the comments, right? Like people saying like, um, you know, I'm secretly eating ice cream alone at night. My downfall is after eating a great all day long. It sucks. The next comment, I can't deal with the whole non-negotiable. This is so interesting. I can't deal with the whole non-negotiable concept. Before I retired, I worked in such a toxic environment where all the power beasts in charge scolded things uh were non-negotiable like we would be berated by them

otherwise hate the concept okay so you but but this is so this is so interesting because to me non-negotiables are about self-love totally it's about you knowing what you want to do to reach this goal. And life just gets in the way. And so many people get in the way and so many things get in the way. So you have to make non-negotiables that are like, I am going to prior, it's a non-negotiable to prioritize myself. Priorities. It's the one of the priorities. It's not going to be easy, but I think it's the framing of the non-negotiable and to hate it. Oh my God. That's me.

That's fun. Good. Let's talk about that. Right? Like, how can you hate? I totally get it. And you're allowed to feel how you feel. But to me, like, how are you then, how are you then justifying doing anything for yourself?

If you're not making those non-negotiables where I'm going to take time for myself? I'm going to self-care myself. I'm going to take time for me to do this. I'm going to prioritize this. Like to me, those are the non-negotiables are like for you. They're for you. Right. Like, so I think it's that there's a difference between like, this is non-negotiable.

You need to get this work done at this time. Like, forget that. especially if you're retired. To me, non-negotiables are promises to yourself that you are making because they are important and they are going to help you reach your goals, better your life. They're saying to yourself, honey, you are not doing what you need to do. You are not taking care of yourself. You are not prioritizing yourself. So you need to get serious with yourself and make some serious non-negotiables to recognize that you are not happy where you are at, where you are at is not working for you. And every day, all day, every fucking day you think about making change. And in order for you to make this change,

you got to make some non-negotiables. I fucking love non-negotiables. So I love the contrast of hating it. Yeah, same, same. And for me, what I hear is the way that things that happen in one context, yes, in another. And that's like, that's exactly downsizing this week. That's actually very benign and kind. We're pinged by it, but not because of this week, but because of like something that happened before, right? Yes. Yeah, we're always pinged. We're like a cord is strummed in not the good way. That's like, oh, that feels like that other person who said it in such a hateful way. Yeah.

So how extraordinary, right? Non-negotiables in this context are not do what Gina says no matter what. They are not listen to other people and not your own wisdom. Non-negotiables are even when my day is so hard, even when I'm caregiving for a parent and a child, when I am recovering or in the throes of illness, when I am at the hardest, lowest, most stressful point, here are the two or five things that I do every day without having to think about and plan and choreograph and decision make about. I just do them. Things like every morning, 10 minutes, I try to catch early morning light because it uplifts my spirit. I know that it sets me up. It's part of the process for good sleep. I agree. I'm part of that bigger picture.

You had mentioned bigger picture and some people in the comments were like, oh yeah, bigger picture. I can zoom out. I am going to have five minutes, 10 minutes with a family pet. I am going to be with my kit, however old, no distractions, full eyeballs, full heart, full presence. I'm going to move my body and it might be as simple as a stretch, could be seated, could be on the floor, or it could be as vigorous as a jog or a workout. Non-negotiables are what can you maintain even on the hardest day so that you're always tending to yourself at least a little bit when the world is asking a lot of you, when your context is asking a lot of you? So that like that's where that principle comes.

And in a way, it makes me so angry. That kind human who wrote at your bosses at that for that prior prior toxic work environment that's like screw them for tarnishing that very good language of non-negotiables and if the language is too much it's like if downsizing is like ah ah that feels like something call something else call something else yeah is this is how i feel about the diet industry. And this is why people are having such big feels this week is because how they associate eating less with starving, depriving, dieting, all of that, which could lead into people

not wanting to share what they're doing or feeling ways about downsizing this week and having such a strong visceral reaction to eating slightly less. I mean, people are like, it gets in your brain too. Like people are like, Oh, I, I, you know, I downsized this week. I was so hungry. My body sore. My eye was shaky. Like, I'm like, we're just having a few bites less. Like this is not the response of the body. And yet I think people are like having this visceral physical experience that is equating

how they're feeling in their brain. It's just simply a few bites less to leave you feeling slightly unsatisfied, you know, off the heels of eating dissatisfaction all last week. Big, huge feels reacting to it because big, huge feels associated with it. Oh, my gosh. There's the work. There's the invitation, right? What happens if we call this week for folks who are like, oh, it's doing something. I can feel my nervous system. I'm resistant. A few bites less, just a few bites. That was the

title of the week. What does that do? So it's the same thing with that like the inner inner angry voice that's relentless punishing say it in a granny voice like what are the small nuanced changes that actually can lead to a sense of relief yeah sense of just like oh, it doesn't have to feel so constricted, so hard, so activating. Yeah. And so now, Gina, you had asked me about prioritizing. Yes. So prioritizing. Sometimes what like turns our priorities on our crisis and urgency.

We can rise to action when like there's a really soon deadline. So here's an example in this world. So, I mean, we know in my world, it's like, oh, a learner hasn't started their work for a while. And then like, oh no, it's due tomorrow. Oh, it becomes a priority. Yeah. Like people who are feeling behind in the program. let's take credit to where people are in the program or i have a wedding to go to i better like kick in the high gear now okay we live in an urgency culture we

live in a like breathless frenzy there's another approach i'm i'm i, I've created a new model called the priority wheel. It's messy, it'll be unfinished. That's how I like things. But just instead of thinking about things only around how soon, how urgent, which can, of course, bring something like a priority up to the topmost thing to do. Another way to think about priorities, especially when it comes to our well-being, because like we don't just want to take care of ourselves when we get a diagnosis, when we like, oh, things got real serious, real fast, that urgency piece. Yes. Is, okay, if we think about a wheel, what is one thing today that I have to do? And that could be an obligation to a workplace, an obligation in a wheel, what is one thing today that I have to do? And that could be an obligation

to a workplace, an obligation in a relationship, an obligation, like a commitment. How do I honor one commitment? Okay, next one. What's something I should do? Something that's on the horizon that I should probably get started with now. So we could think about that as like, that's almost like your prep week. What do I need to line up? Or if people were going to do your supplements, how do I need to think ahead, do a little research, it's not immediate, but it's like on the horizon, I need to set myself up for success. Well, in a day, you're also allowed the next one would be what do you want to do? What what is just delicious and fun that you don't need permission? Or I give you permission, like give yourself permission.

What is something that just lifts your whole spirit? You're allowed to do that. You're really allowed to have fun in your day. Yeah. And then what's something that feels good? Not something that like, oh, another should, but it actually doesn't matter if you want to. So an example is light movement outdoors in sunshine in some kind of bright context. That it doesn't even matter if you want to do it. It's just a really great idea going about on time. I'm setting a boundary around that time. And then something that you aim to do like a heartfelt, juicy,

radical, delicious, dreamy goal. What's one thing you can see plant towards it. And if you move through that wheel of something, you have to do something that you ought, like that's going to be helpful. If you just bring it a little forward and do a small part of it, something you really want to do something that feels good. It's maybe one of the non-negotiables in the good way. And then something that you aim to do. It's a totally different approach to priorities just being equated with, oh gosh, what is urgent? What is a deadline?

What is immediate? I don't want to deny that that's part of all of our lives, but it doesn't have to be the only way we prioritize. And it makes you associate with prioritizing yourself in a feel good way, rather than just in those moments, right? And to me, that's like that. That's the opposite of prioritizing. It's like that something has to give sometimes things happen in your life where you can't put in the time that you need to put in, but that's not prioritizing you. Generally, that's prioritizing someone else. I want to read these two comments,

going back on and then I just I have one final question for you. Um, thank you, Gina and, and, uh, Dr. Dina, my heart has not stopped racing. Just writing about my negative non-negotiable experiences. Yeah. You need to own, take that back. Um, it brings back so many horrible experiences. So I will change the language because I see all the positives in the program. Yeah, I love this. And this is the same, we could say the same about the diet industry, write down all the shitty things you've done. Like this is why it's such a great idea. We talked about this tracking your diet history, to really understand what you've been through, how hard you work, how you haven't given up on yourself and really recognize that where a lot of these fields are coming from, because they are

connected to those past experiences. Here's Vicki here. I love this, Vicki. I also think I put up roadblocks to justify, I want to quit because it's hard. Yeah, much easier to blame the program rather than my issues with all of the weight stuff. And then it's really in recognizing that we talk all the time about how the diet industry has really caused some damage. It really has not just physically, but mentally. And, you know, people go back years and years and years and, you know, it's, it's attached to self-worth and how they feel their sense of success or sense of failure. They're wanting it so bad, this thing that they can't control, the thing that they can't do, the thing that they can't achieve, like all of

these should be able to, I should know what to do. And I do this, and I do that. And it's not for lack of trying, you know, that time, energy and money spent on it. It's just because the diet industry is shit. And you know, these are the kind of conversations that you should have been having from the get. I love this. One final question. How do we measure that we are successfully making change beyond the scale? I don't mean non-scale victories. I mean, how do we know that we are working through these things, that our learning is making a difference? And that's probably, we probably need six hours for that response. How do we know? How do we know we're gaining any ground on this?

Yeah. Oh, I, yeah, I want to answer that, I guess, in a couple of ways. So first is the way that this beautiful human who wrote with their upset, and then also wrote with their reflection around that word negotiables. So one of the ways that we can understand that we are really learning something new in the moments like that, where there is space between, we go for the automatic response of, oh, and then there was a pause. And then we go, wait, there's an opportunity. There's feedback. There's feedback there's there's a chance to maybe hear it do it try it a little differently so i would say one of the metrics is the pause in between um are kind of the the what comes immediately and then our choice. Is there increasing space?

Is there increasing gentleness? Is there increasing understanding? It's almost like asking, what is the spirit behind something? So what is the spirit behind this choice I'm making? I was very sick last week. And do you know what I so wanted? Do you know what I so wanted after three and a half weeks with what wound up pneumonia, man, I wanted cookie dough ice cream. I'm naming it. I never eat it. And I wanted it. And you know what I, you know what

else I wanted? I wanted for, I wanted not to share it with my kids. I wanted my own pint and I had it and the spirit underneath was like the deepest savoring right your hashtag worth it I knew exactly what I was doing it wasn't unconscious it wasn't wasn't reaction it was delight it was delight it was a portion. I actually tasted every bite and then I was like, and we're done. The spirit behind it was like such joy, full permission, savoring that I could like taste again and function in the world. So what's the spirit behind this choice, this reaction? I think that that's another metric. I think we can also, it's like how is the volume and the aggression changing in our own inner dialogue? That would be another way of measuring.

You know, How ruthless am I around my choices? How unforgiving am I when I ate a little off plan one day? How do I recalibrate the next day? Those are, for me, the deepest metrics. There is the goal for people to be calm physically mentally to have that space in your brain not be there anymore you know what i did that's why i need that blah blah blah blah blah but it just occurred to me this is the this is on the road to getting to that before you get to that place that you have that space in your brain that is not consumed with what you are eating and when and needing to lose weight anymore that calm feeling physically more so mentally there's things happening on the road to getting to that space so I love that noticing

those the nuance the little changes in your brain where there is more space between ragged on your side or it starts to feel lighter and not so heavy yeah right like the meaning change your your person here who commented they just had one so bravely so courageously so full-heartedly in front of everyone here of like, Oh, look, look at all the meaning I attached to that. Yeah. I don't have to do it that way anymore. Like that's gorgeous. That's I love it. You are brilliant. Um, Dr. Dina Kara Schaefer, the author of feel good learning. You can find her at awakened learning on Instagram, um, website where people can find you. Yep. www.awakenlearning.ca. Um, anything you have going up? I know people, we talk about weight loss, but you have a lot going on outside of weight loss and what people are doing here with learning. Um, anything to

share in terms of like maybe what you have coming up resources people might be interested in. Tina, you're exquisite. Thank you for, thank you for rooting for the small business owners, for the people who are trying to leave it all on the dance floor and who look to you as a guide and a model. So thank you for asking that. Like your community. So do you know what they checked in and they were like, how are you feeling, Dina? Hope you're getting better. I'm sure. We had the best community, hands down. Extraordinary. And so some of your members have, you know, sent their learners to us. They're working with us.

So I have a really beautiful team of learning strategists who help learners, whether they're grade five or grade six, high school, pandemic learning gaps, repairing learning around high school, post-secondary life transitions around like, I don't know what school to go to, what courses to go to. I want to get my first job. I want to get my third job. And then sometimes my favorite mature learners who are like, I think I want to do it differently. I think I want to go to school and become a psychotherapist. So we have a team of holistic learning strategists and it would be great to see folks there if it feels like that's helpful. Amazing. Dr. Dina Karashefer,

thank you for your time today for everyone watching and everyone listening. Thank you for joining us. Thanks.