The Livy Method Podcast - Let's Talk Secondary Supplements with Dr. Paul Hrkal, ND - Winter 2024

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

In this segment, Gina chats with Dr. Paul Hrkal, ND, about the secondary supplements that can help support you in your weight loss journey and level up your health.If you are in the Winter 2024 Support Group, you can check out the full video here:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodwinter2024Topics covered:Introducing Dr. Paul and Secondary Supplements: What drives people's health?How do we help improve our resilience?4 main reasons your weight may be slower to move and Inflammation, Stress & Sleep and hormonesSupplements to help build resilience and your adrenal systemYour pattern of cortisol secretion during the dayAdrenal Fatigue - what does that really mean? And what symptoms are associated with it?Menopause and perimenopause: How do the adrenals play a role?A dysfunctional adrenal system as the underlying issue in many health concernsYou need to get healthy to lose weight, not lose weight to get healthyThe road back to health and how eating often helpsVitamin C, B Vitamins & Adaptogens to repair and replete our adrenal systemHow do you know if you are deficient in B12 and other nutrients?You have to get investigative about this process! Map your historyLooking at non-scale victories as a guide through this processB Complex: look for the active forms! AOR is a brand, for example, that uses active formsDosing of B vitamins: follow the instructions on the label or check in with your health care providerAdaptogens: help your body adapt! Ashwagandha, Ginseng, Rhodiola, Medicinal MushroomsWhere do you start with adaptogens?Supplements are more gentle and help your systems work betterL-theanine, an amino acid found in green tea, has a calming effect on the nervous system and works quicklyThe synergistic effect of food, movement and supplementsStop looking for a quick fix; understand your OWN story and do the hard workWhich secondary supplements apply the most to you?CoQ10 and supporting your cardiovascular healthTurmeric as an anti-inflammatoryMCT oil is a good fat that helps you feel more energizedTrace minerals and proper hydration; what symptoms may indicate you need more minerals?What are the areas that you feel unwilling to change? That's likely where you need to gowww.paulhrkalnd.com@drpaulhrklTo learn more about the Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple,

and Amazon Music. You're going to have this ability to now reframe. Allow yourself time throughout the day to stress the fuck out. The thoughts and the feelings and the behavior cycle can start changing. Supplements that can help you lose weight. That's kind of what we're talking about today, but also kind of not. Because I think if you took any one of these supplements as a one-off, I don't necessarily know that it's going to help you lose weight. We've talked basic supplements with our guest today, Dr. Paul Herckel, we are back to talk about secondary supplements, supplements that now that you put this kind of time and energy into helping your body level up

can actually make a difference in not just you know, when you're trying to lose weight, but your health and wellness in general. Always a great conversation're trying to lose weight but your health and wellness in general um always a great conversation um and love to have it with our amazing guest dr paul herkel hello good morning hi good morning thank you uh for an amazing welcome and i'm excited to talk about this our third session of uh of the winter session here right do you ever get tired of talking about supplements um You know what? What's beautiful about our conversations, Gina, is I probably think I would get tired of just talking about supplements, but it's so much more than that. It's talking about things to do with

really what drives people's health, what makes them tick, what are the key obstacles. Because ultimately, you know, my mission in life, really, we're talking about, you know, my kind of like vocation as a naturopathic doctor, I really embrace that as a gift, to be able to journey with people in their in their in their quest to become the best versions of themselves. And so I think I don't I never get tired of talking about that kind of stuff. And that's kind of I'm able to share a little bit of that insight with everyone. And of course, with you. Yeah, I'm not tired of it either, because I think it's exciting that there are so many things that people can do to be proactive about their health. Obviously, you want to, you know, focus on, you know, managing stress and

getting the best sleep you can and moving your body and, you know, eating healthy and all of those things. But there are I mean, there are stores full of supplements that, you know, I think can be super helpful. There's a lot of science behind them at this point. We know that. I think though that unless your body is working, you know, at sort of more optimal level, I think that's the like step one, obviously, is just get healthy on the most basic level, you know, drink enough water to be hydrated, eat some healthy foods, put some time into helping your body be healthy by managing your stress and your sleep and you know, whatnot. But supplements can help. So today, we're talking MCT oil, adapted gins, which I think is going to be a huge hot topic. Today, we talked I mean, both of those things can kind of help.

We're talking about B vitamins complex. I know we touched on that. We're going to move that to our first set of supplements. Next group, CoQ10, heart health, L-theanine, stress, tumor, curcumin. Again, I guess there's a theme for all of these. Kind of stress and sleep. Healthyumin. Again, I guess there's a theme for all of these kind of stress. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I would say probably my favorite topic to discuss with people, especially when they are, you know, new to naturopathic medicine to the nutraceutical world

is the topic of how do we help improve our resilience, Gina? And that's really the adaptogenic term that I want to emphasize today. I think in life in general, I touched on this in our conversation last week, is that so much of what our organism, our human organism down to cellular level is trying to do is trying to improve its resilience. In fact, I think every living organism, you know what's fascinating to me,

I was doing some research on plant extracts, like, for example, turmeric, turmeric is a plant extract that's found in curcumin, which is a root that has a ton of anti inflammatory antioxidant effects. But when you look at some of these plant extracts, what do they actually do in the plant, they're actually made to protect the plant in some way. So for example, resveratrol. Resveratrol is one of the most common reasons why people say, well, red wine's really good for you. This has a mechanism on a plant level to protect it as kind of like an anti-fungicide. And so the nature has this really beautiful harmony with us as humans, because we get benefits on a cellular level, on a health level, on an inflammatory level from

these molecules that plants also make to protect themselves. They end up protecting us too. So I find that just like a really beautiful, symbiotic relationship we have yeah i mean this this it's been around for a while this is kind of nothing new it's just that we really got caught up in the other side of medicine and now you know we're taking a look at other i don't want to say alternatives because i mean i guess they are but more complementary i think than alternatives to to some of the medications and medicines that our people are taking. You mentioned our conversation that we had not too long ago, we actually talked about four main reasons why your weight might be slower to move. I mean, really, they all fed into

this inflammation. We talked about your microbiome, we talked about your hormone, talked about, you know, your, your gut health, food sensitivities, and whatnot, which really all fell under this umbrella of inflammation. And then we had, we've had conversations about stress, of course, we've had conversations about the importance of sleep, and really how it all works together. And, and Dr. Olinka, on, on Thursday, we talked more about hormones and how they're and how they're all connected and how everything works together. So I love that, talking about that symbiotic relationship, right? Okay, so resiliency, that's really what we're doing. These supplements really, we should call them

resiliency. Yeah, it's true. You know, resiliency on the level of our hormones, like, for example, let's dive right into something like the thyroid or something like the adrenals. So we talked about people know that have been through the program. They've heard of the body's adrenal system. This system is probably best described, Gina, as our body's shock absorber system. And it produces hormones like cortisol and DHEA to help the body cope with demands that we put on and on daily basis. Now, this is normal. This is not something that, you know,

we want to have zero cortisol throughout the body. If we had zero cortisol, we'd be dead. We need that. So it's about having the right secretion at the right time. That's one of the key things when it comes to hormones. And that's actually one of the reasons I think why hormones are so misunderstood, especially the adrenal system by kind of very reductionist conventional medicine approaches where they're like, Oh, well, are you really low? Are you really high? If not, then everything's fine. Well, what about if you're not really low and high,

but you just have a pattern of secretion throughout the day that's not ideal? Like, for example, cortisol should be secreted in the morning because that one of its main jobs is that it kind of gets us ready for the day. It gives us energy. It creates a flow of blood sugar. It helps pull out blood sugar out of the liver. And then as the day goes down, it goes on, the cortisol levels go down and then during the night should be really low. Now, I have lots of patients, you know, that they have cortisol levels that are quite low during the morning and then they start peaking later in the day and then they might even spike overnight. And that is one of the reasons they can't get back to sleep when they wake up. It's one of the reasons they can't get back to sleep when they wake up it's one of the reasons

their mind is racing because it turns things on in the body turns on your brain it has an anti-inflammatory effect it suppresses over reactions of the immune system these are all great things but in the right time not really really high levels at night and so that's where one of those things you would never pick that up if you just did blood cortisol testing. And I think this is the adrenal system is one of the most overlooked underlying reasons why people really have a lot of health issues and symptoms that really conventional doctors is totally missing my experience. Well, adrenal fatigue, that was a big like buzzword uh a few years ago you and i talked about this it's not like your adrenals get fatigued but it's like you're kind of like you're overtaxing

your system in a sense or they get unbalanced how would you describe what your adrenals need help i love that you asked that question because a lot of people might have heard or been introduced to the concept of the adrenals through you know maybe you know some posts online saying oh do you have adrenal fatigue or not yeah yeah you know adrenal fatigue again is is i think it's it's just an inaccurate term it's not totally wrong i think it just doesn't capture the reality of what what really happens it's not like your adrenals just stop working or they've been removed somehow or they shrivel up and die. That's not what happens. It's that they're not producing the right amount of hormone, aka cortisol, at the right times. And that might lead to symptoms of insomnia, but also being exhausted during the day.

It might lead to lots of inflammatory issues. Because again, cortisol is a really close relative to cortisone, which we all know is a great anti inflammatory. So if you're not producing enough of that, then you're going to have higher levels of inflammation and pain throughout the body too, because you're not you're missing that, that hormone. So there's this gray area of, I would say, dysfunction or lack of functionality of hormone rather than it's totally missing or it's so high that it needs to be suppressed. That's really, I think,

the genius of natural quality medicine shines really when you look at a system like this, where it's like this Goldilocks effect, just right, not too high, not too low, not too hard, not too soft. You want to have just the right amount at the right timing throughout the day. And then you can apply the same thing,

like with Dr. Olenka's conversation around reproductive hormones. You can apply the same thing to insulin. You can apply the same thing to thyroid too, Gina. So this concept of hormonal optimization is really, really important. Yeah, because I was literally just going to ask you, where does where do your adrenals fit in? And what role are they playing when you're perimenopausal or menopausal or like that's a huge conversation everyone wants to have

i mean dr lincoln describes sort of your hormones as like this orchestra right and when sort of one is off you can tell them where it affects everything and everyone when they want to talk about hormones they just want to they want to talk about you know i'm perimenopausal i'm menopausal that's the only conversation that they want to have and I think a lot of people think that it's just small conversation when it involves all the hormones in the body, essentially. It's a big conversation. You're totally right. And I think you hit on one of the most important takeaways is that no hormonal system operates in isolation, Gina, they all work together. They, like, for example, using your example about menopause, a lot of women get puzzled why, you know, their friend has no menopausal symptoms, and they are suffering

from hot flashes and night sweats, and they're really, really impacted by these symptoms. One of the reasons that scientists kind of hypothesize is that there could be a genetic predisposition. Usually, you know, early menopause is passed on. Usually more severe hot flashes and symptoms are something that you could look to your mom and to your sister and aunts. But there is also this factor of after the ovaries stop producing their estrogen and progesterone, and now you're going to have a deficiency in those hormones, your adrenal system actually produces about 30% of your estrogen and progesterone after menopause. So it's kind of like producing this basal level all the time. And so now what if your adrenal system has been poorly recovered your whole life, now you're missing that base level, it's like your foundation

was pulled up from underneath you. So a lot of women really start experiencing some severe symptoms and not just hot flashes. They're going to say that their energy is really off. They're going to start saying that their body composition is changing during menopause, their brain function is changing, they're achy. These are things that, you know, are kind of more peripheral menopausal symptoms, but really are made worse when now you have an adrenal system on top of an ovarian deficiency issue. Yes, this is what I mean, because I think we're sitting there thinking, well, I want to sit back, I want to wait till he talks about, you know, perimenopause, menopause. I don't need to know about the adrenal system and I don't need to know about my practice that I really would want to talk about the most often, it's exactly this, because I think it's, it's an area that is poorly understood. It's an area that is overlooked by conventional medicine, there isn't great testing available, like with

thyroid, you know, you could test TSH and free T3 and free T4. And you could have a pretty get a pretty good idea about your thyroid. And generally, generally synthroid is fairly good at replacing those you know there's there's a number of issues with converting your your thyroid hormones as well we could have that conversation but it generally is is fairly well taken care of by most family doctors but the adrenal system is just something that is not taught like I've've spoken to many, many medical doctors and healthcare professionals, and they just don't understand and they don't really even look at your adrenal system. And I would say it's the one thing

that I repeatedly see in my practice, Gina, as being the dysfunctional underlying issue that is contributing to a lot of these really potent symptoms, like I can't sleep at night, for example, or I'm really tired, but I'm not so tired that I qualify for chronic fatigue diagnosis, or I'm still energetic enough that I can get through my day, but I'm not living with the energy that I had before I had kids or when I was in my 20, like who's listening to this can resonate with that.

You know, I'm sure there's a lot of people. Yeah. I mean, I I've, I've gone through adrenal fatigue myself when I had my first, my first couple of kids and I was trying to run my practice and I was doing conferences and I, and I was doing too many things. And really the bodies is, is really elegant at dealing with stress, Gina. But there is a point where that stress becomes overwhelming to our capacity. We have certain amount of building blocks that our body's adrenal system and other systems that can kind of keep up with that. But now think about anybody that's listening. Now, what if, you know, for your, from 28 to 45, you've been burning

the candle at both ends. You know, you had some kids, you rushed back to work and you're just go, go, go, going from hockey to dance to piano. And, and now a lot of people, again, these are the people that are walking to my office. They, they come into my office and they say, Dr. Paul, I got on Gina plan, Gina's plan. I love it. It's great. I'm now trying to piece my health back together. And then we start looking at their health history, Gina. And we realize that for the last decade or two, that they've totally actually been hurting their health. Yo-yo dieting. You talk about this all the time. You rail against it. It's a horrible adrenal thing because you're starving your body, you're putting your body in a fight or flight mode. Going on a super low carb diet and a calorically restricted diet, when you're already not recovering as well, and you're sleeping poorly, actually makes your adrenal system work harder. Yeah. I mean, that's why I think these conversations are so,

um, so important and so beneficial because we are talking because we're in a group of people who've been trying to lose weight, many of them for their entire lives. And they've been doing that by starving and depriving and starving and depriving and resisting, uh, you know, and sorry, um, the restricting and neglecting. And, you know, it's that it's that saying, again, that you you need to be healthy to lose weight, you don't lose weight to get healthy. I mean, the side effect of, yes, releasing fat in your body can help because you know, fat can cause inflammation and all these other problems. But at the end of the day, it's those diets have caused more problems, I think.

In the long term, no doubt. In the long term, I would totally agree with you. I, and this is, again, I'll go back to this is why you and I are even having this conversation. I would never get involved with a weight loss program or group that I didn't think actually respected physiological principles that made sense. Because like I said before, it's a quick fix. Doing something like a keto diet is a temporary thing that may have some benefit in the short term. Like if you lost 50 pounds because of restriction, your muscles and your joints are going, sorry, your joints are going to have less weight to carry. That's, you're going to feel better on that front. However, on a metabolic level, are you, have you also lost muscle mass? Have you also now actually deprived yourself from key nutrients? Have you been pumping up your body's stress hormones like cortisol to try to make up for that energy? Because if you deprive yourself of that energy in terms of calories, nutrition, your body's going to have to come up with a demand somehow. So you continue to do all the extra things.

You continue to have poor sleep hygiene, like all the things that are withdrawing more out of your health bank account. But it's about putting these deposits back in. And I really want to make sure, do you know, we get to the solution here? Because right now I feel like people are listening to this and then they're like, wow, that was me. You know, like I totally resonate with this.

So what do I do? Am I screwed? Because I've been yo-yo dying my whole life. Have I screwed myself over now? And the answer is no. If you do have a longer road back, there's no doubt. We have to deal with the consequences of some of our past actions. That is in every area of our lives.

But I really like the continuous kind of like frequent feeding with the Livy program because it's actually really helpful for the adrenal system. You're not going into states of hypoglycemia, low blood sugar actually is a more of a challenge. Now, a lot of people that might have, you know, say I've done intermittent fasting, then intermittent fasting might be great for people that their adrenal systems are good, that they're intact, they have a good response. But if you're one of those people that you tried intermittent fasting, you're like, I felt way worse, then that might be a sign that your adrenal system actually needs a lot of work. And so that's where you say, you know what, I'm going to go work with an ND to help fix that. And these are really

good at treating the adrenal system. That's the one I would say bread and butter, pun not intended, I guess. Don't do bread and butter. That's probably not a good thing right now. But anyways, my point is, is that you really want to get that taken care of. And that's going to actually help you out in so many different areas that maybe you didn't even realize were dysfunctional. I mean, intermittent fasting, it's another form of calorie restriction, like starving, deprivation, all of it. It's the same thing with keto, in a sense, restricting nutrients. I think it's about giving the body what it needs to make change to repair to rebuild to regenerate to rejuvenate to address the issues that have been systematically breaking your body down over years and years and years. Okay, so let's get into that. So we started talking about, um, what do you want to start? So I got MCT oil, um, adaptogens, bees, althene. Let's do bees and adaptogens because I think that's a great segue, what we just talked about. Cause I think it's part of the solution. You know, I think the solution is, um, that we,

um, sorry, this one's been construction here about me. Uh, um, it's part of the solution is that we, sorry, someone's doing construction here, but me. It's part of the solution of what we need to be, what we need to be actually doing to repair and replete our adrenal system. So our adrenal system needs, it needs nutrients to properly function. One of the most important nutrients is vitamin C. Vitamin C is helpful for the production of cortisol. And vitamin C you primarily get through diet. You can top that up with some supplementation. But I really like the dietary approach. So if you're eating your grains and fruits and vegetables, you're getting lots of vitamin C. It's not just in oranges. B vitamins,

B5 especially, but a B complex provides the building blocks for your body's neurotransmitters and also your adrenal system to properly produce cortisol, properly produce aldosterone. These are the adrenal hormones. And a lot of people, they're deficient in some of these things. And it might seem so basic, Gina, but I see it all the time on blood work is that I'll go in and test for things like B12, which is a part of the B vitamin family, and it still comes back low. And so let's just quickly go through some of those things that might actually be related to why a person is deficient. Like, for example, if you've ever had any past history of veganism or vegetarianism, you're going to be low on B12. And maybe that might be

something that you've been low for a while and you just have never depleted. You might have been vegan a long time ago. So certain medications, like for example, if you're on a diabetes medication named metformin, metformin can deplete B12. It is a well-known depletion. If you are on an acid blocking medication, like for example, a Losec or a Pantoprazole, any one of Nexium, any one of these medications, a stomach acid is required to absorb your B vitamins from your food. It's required to absorb magnesium from your food and minerals. So B vitamins and minerals really get negatively impacted by acid blockers. So one of the most commonly prescribed medications, if you went through a history of long-term stress, if you've had any gastric surgeries, deficiency in nutrients

are really common. If you have gastric issues, like for example, celiac disease or inflammation, like I just named six off the top of my head that are huge impediments to absorbing B vitamins. I know, I know so many people all of a sudden just were like, what? Because they're all like, what? Right? Okay. Because there's so many things, that are sneaky at not allowing us to have optimal levels of nutrients. And you know, the frightening part is, is that nobody talks like a lot of people, the first time they're exposed to supplements is when they talk to you when they talk to and see people through the program. They're like, you know what, I never thought about supplements. Part of what we do in our first conversation is saying, you know, what if people are skeptical? But just looking at those five, six things I just mentioned, these are things that impact so many different people at different points in their life that can change the stores they have in their body to just basically do the foundational things.

I'm reading this comment. My body truly seems to not want to release fat, I need extra help for sure. Like, I know a lot of people feel that like, because you're just I think trying to focus on like, eat less exercise more. It's in the diet. I mean, obviously, the living method following the food plan is really important. But if you're not grasping the fact it's so much more than that at this point. And there are so many reasons why your body might be resistant to releasing fat because it's just not functioning properly because you're so stressed out or you're because you're deficient or you got, do you know what I mean? And that's what I love

about our conversations is you have to get investigative about this. You have to think, okay, I'm doing this, this, and this. Why am I not seeing any movement on this scale? Am I seeing those non-scale victories? Am I making all these changes and not noticing a difference in my energy or how I'm feeling or in my digestion? Like it's a lot and we're very cognizant whenever we're having these conversations

not to overwhelm people, but it is reality for people. They need to go above and beyond and in terms of trying to figure out what their body needs what's going on this way it's a great idea and dr paul suggests this many times go back and map your your weight loss history go back and map all the things that you've been through physically mentally right like where have you been where you are now where Where you are now? Where do you want to go? What do you need to do? What do we need to address in order to get there? That's why again, so many people will walk away and be like, I feel overwhelmed or stressed out by this

conversation that you should get excited about this conversation. Because we're bringing awareness to things that you can do that will actually make a difference. That's the thing here. We want you want you to not just be healthier. We want you to lose your weight. So that's, I mean, that's why we're having this conversation. Okay. And those things go together, Gina. Like I think as you get healthier, your body loses weight and sometimes it does it in stages. So a lot of people get very frustrated because they are looking at the symptom, which is weight. And I think the underlying issue is what we're talking about now. And that is not a simple A plus B. Usually there's many things that contribute to the one symptom.

And that's what you're seeing. Again, going back to that iceberg analogy, right? You know, the tip of the iceberg is you're looking at, I got 50 pounds to lose and it's not budging. Go back and map out from when you were a preteen. How were you decade by decade, year by year? It's what I do with my patients. And I find it so insightful where they're like, I was feeling great in my twenties. And then something happened.

And all of a sudden, since that time, I've never been well, or since that time I've been starting to wait. So what happened at that point? Was it something that you can go back and reverse engineer? You know, this is just kind of like deductive reasoning for your health. And yes, I do totally recognize what you said, Gina. There are some people that it's not just one thing. It's probably 10 things.

And they get overwhelmed because they're like, I was in a car accident and I had this surgery and there were things out of my control. And then I got hurt by, you know, a divorce and like on and on. Yes. And that does make it more complex. However, there always is something you can take away, even from this conversation right now that you can do. What string can you pull on to have a positive impact?

Because there is always something you can move? What string can you pull on to have a positive impact? Because there is always something you can move towards being healthy. And I think if we really get only scale focused, and that's your only barometer of success, Gina, you know this, you've been in this program, your own program for so long, I know I have with my patients, is that there are times where you have to look at non-scale things as a guide for your progress. Because, you know, if you just keep banging your head against the wall and say, I'm not seeing the scale move, that in itself can cause stress. Like I just had a conversation with a patient last week where they had an eating disorder when they were young. They had to actually get treated for it in an institution and they still have body dysmorphia.

And that is another factor that was predisposing them to a huge stress response. Yeah. So if you're one of those people, that might be your obstacle is how do I even look at myself? How do I gauge my success? Anyways, lots of factors here. And we really want us to want you to take away something here. And I like that, you know, that you brought it back to that. Yeah. Okay. Let's roll through these, uh, supplements. So I do want to say that these are all in the book. You can also go into our Facebook support group, a print off the

PDF, um, in the, from the file section there in the app. I highly suggest that you listen to this conversation and kind of roll along with all the information in the book because Dr. Paul is going to give us the need to know stuff. If you want to go deeper into it, it's all here. So for example, B-complex, it runs through all the Bs. One, two, three, five, six, seven, nine. Goes through all of them. B-12, B-complex, do what do people need to know about their

b's their b so if you're low on b12 your doctor may say go get some extra b12 and that makes sense like you'll find that on blood work that's a fairly good indicator uh if your b12 is low it generally means your b12 is low however b12 is high it could be that you're supplementing with b12 or it could mean that there's some other inflammation going on in your body. So high level B12 could mean multiple things. So I've had a couple of patients reach out to me being like, I'm concerned about my high levels of B12. So we do some investigation and put them on the right track. Definitely, if your levels of B12 are high, you don't want to continue to take more B12. Also, B-complex does have B12. Also, B complex does have B12. I want to make one really important point about

a B complex is that you want forms in the B complex that are the active forms of B12. Does the manual go over this, Gina? It's been a while since I looked at it. Does it talk about active forms like methylfolate or methyl B12? I don't know if it gets to that granular detail or not, but either way, remember, like for example, the one you held up, the purple bottle, that one does have active forms in it. Yes, that one there. And what that, all that means is that it bypasses a step in terms of making your body use these B vitamins. If you use the really cheap B vitamins,

they're cheap for a reason because they're forms that the body has to work extra hard to convert to the forms that are ready to be used by yourselves. Is that just quality? You get what you pay for or what is that? Well, in this case, yes, Ginaina so i would say like in some cases like coq10 uh there are only two forms there's like a super expensive one but majority of them are called ubiquinone and that one's just fine for whether or not you find that at costco and you're getting a 400 milligram one or you're finding that at a really high-end health food store you're getting a 400 milligram one generally that that's the same. But the B vitamins, you do get what you pay for. And it has a lot to do with these active forms. Same

thing with a multivitamin. If most one a day multivitamins don't work, in my opinion, because just based on practicality, you physically can't stuff the amount that is necessary of any of the B of any of the B's, any of the fat soluble vitamins, your minerals. Remember, you're trying to combine three different classes of nutrients into one. You need ideally absorbed with food for the fat soluble vitamins. B vitamins are in that same category, but your minerals are better absorbed away from food. So you're just, it's a practicality that I think you're sacrificing too much. That doesn't mean that there aren't some multis that have a role to play, but most of the people that are, that are listening to this are taking some sort of like women's over 50 multi or, you know, men's, you know, men's

exercise multi. I find generally this more all marketing. Right. Cause it makes you feel better that you're taking something. But if you actually have deficiencies, it's not really going to do much for you. Let's talk about dose then, like you would you just do recommended dose? Yeah, so like, that's the nice thing about when you're using brands. And again, we're very agnostic, we don't actually specific recommend any brands, because there's a lot of good ones out there and we're not affiliated with any of them. I don't work with any other health company. I used to do a lot of work with lots of different companies before, but no longer.

And it gives me some good insight on, you know, the quality between different types. And so that's the nice thing when you're using a brand like that purple brand, like AOR, generally they've done the homework for you. And so you can trust that the dose is actually good. There are many others out there as well, that that could be but they are generally more expensive. So you're going to be paying maybe 10, 15, 20 bucks more, but you generally get a lot more in it. So actually, when you do the math on what's effective, and how the benefit you're getting, I think it's definitely way better value for your health to use a form that's well absorbed and the right dose. And so to answer

your question, Gina, you know, generally speaking for a B12, we'll use that because there's so many different Bs. You're looking to get about a thousand micrograms per dose. That's the recommended kind of like dose by Health Canada. I think that's a reasonable one of an active form. Most standalone B12s are just 1000. Or you can actually get the high dose with 5000, which in some cases when you're really low, or there's some neurological conditions that you need higher levels. And so that's why it's there. So if you're concerned about B vitamins, you can always top up with individual ones, but the B's work together. And that's why I really like a B complex because they all are synergistic. And they generally when they're low, most of them are going to be low together because they have similar absorption

mechanisms. Okay. Again, I mean, we are we you know, there's a there's a there's a whole list on you know, why who might want to look into taking, why you want to take, the importance of taking, like, all this information is in the book. And of course, we're having this conversation with Dr. Paul today. Outside of that, though, go talk to your pharmacist, your healthcare provider, book an appointment with your, you know, with your doctor, your naturopathic doctor, and have these conversations. If you have any questions, I mean, you want to be proactive about your health, right? Okay. So should we get into adaptogens next? Sure. Why not? We talked about that in terms of the concept. So hopefully everyone kind of understands why they might be taking an adaptogen. I like the name because it is very descriptive. It helps your body adapt. It's not a boost your cortisol supplement. It's not a suppress your cortisol supplement. There are mechanisms of action that you might do either, but I really like that most of these herbs, for example, ashwagandha, ginseng, rhodiola. People have heard of all these before.

These are all herbs that are part of the adaptogenic class of herbs. So if you look for an adaptogen herb, it's not a specific herb, it's just a group of herbs. You could actually even throw things like medicinal mushrooms like reishi and mataki and shiitake and chaga, these mushrooms that have a lot of these adaptogenic properties. Any substance that helps your body deal with stress or supports a system in the body that deals with stress can be termed an adaptogen gene. So, you know, that's why the class is so wide. Just before our conversation, I just did another quick literature search about adaptogens. And every time I do that, I'm always impressed how scientists around the world are looking at every year, year over year, looking at the way that these supplements work. So, for example, ashwagandha or withania is the Latin name for it. Again, it's continually being studied for things like depression and insomnia and anxiety because it has those kind of calming and mood supportive properties.

Where something like Korean ginseng, these are things like that's been well known. And for example, in cold effects, I have no affiliation, but that's that's one where people might have heard of that before. That is a that is a ginseng. That's part of the adaptogenic family, and it helps with immunity. So look at this, we have part of the same family, part of the ginseng family, and they do some very specific but different things, how they're helping our body adapt to a stressor one's an immune stressor one is our sleep for example and our anxiety so that's neat yeah it's super cool so feeling tired struggling to wake up trouble falling asleep

anxiety feeling on edge mood swings depression weight gain autoimmune issues brain fog body aches hair loss lightheadedness i can't you know hormonal issues perimenopause menopause so you know it's adaptogens would that be something but are we talking or adjust as hormones because of cortisol like what yeah i just take this whole thing for everything? Let's just cut to the chase. Can I chug this bottle right now and deal with my stressors? No, you can't. That would be unwise.

But I see the spirit of your question that you're asking. And a lot of people are thinking the same thing. So what do I do? Where do I start with the data? Well, first of all, if you're somebody that will acknowledge that you're under stress, but it's not like you have a really, really severe form of any of the symptoms we just talked about, like anxiety or mood disorders or depression or autoimmunity, like these are conditions that now you probably need to be more specific. But if you're like going through the program and you've gotten your non, some non-scale victories, but maybe you're still wanting to optimize a little bit and you're, you know, you're, you're a mom or your dad, and you have things that you're dealing

with, you're under stress at work and naphthogen at the recommended dose that's on the bottle would be a really good idea. I think that the research shows that it helps with resilience to everyday stress. And that's where I think it comes in as part of the secondary supplements is that it helps with the body's day-to-day duties on a cellular level and on a hormonal level. Now, if you have a specific issue that you're like, well, is it, was it compatible with someone that has lupus or rheumatoid arthritis? Well, now that's where you need to work with somebody that's going to give you some specific guidance because now we could do some additional testing. If you're finding fatigue is a huge limiting factor for you, or you have some insomnia that has really been problematic and has not been

helped by changing your diet. That's a really, really key point. So much of what people are experiencing, Gina, as you know, from the thousands of stories and testimonials people have shared with you, is that a lot of this stuff cleans up when you just get your diet and lifestyle in order. And if that doesn't help, then that's where adaptogens can really come in and give you that additional leg up. They don't make you addicted. They don't make you habituated. They help the body's own systems do their job better. This is such an important point to remember about supplements is that unlike medications, which usually are stronger and faster acting in the moment, they have a long-term and a laundry list of side effects.

Supplements are more gentle. They help. They work with the body instead of despite the body. And they are really well tolerated. And they have very few side effects. So that, I think, is the expectations and the difference between the more pharmaceutical model, which there's a place for, and then the more nutraceutical model, which definitely there's a place for, for majority of people that are living in this world right now. So that's my kind of basic recommendations when it comes to using adaptogens.

I love it. And I love that you mentioned this is why it's part of the secondary supplement list, because there are other things you definitely want to focus on and do before you get to this point to make sure that that you really have this need as opposed to you're just your diet is crap, and you're surviving on coffee all day. And, you know, you don't eat any vegetables, or you know, you're not managing your stress and stress at all. And you're not trying to, you know, you're still watching TV and you're on Netflix or, you know, on your phone until 12 o'clock at night wondering, why don't I sleep? Okay. Should we go to Alfini? Can I, yeah. You know, I was just going to say, thank you. I want, I wanted you to say Alfini because that's the next thing that I wanted to

talk about. Beautiful. Cause it's a great, it's a great segue, but then remind me, I want to tell everybody about something that is really important when it comes to the synergy between diet and supplements. Okay, so we'll come back to that. Okay. Yes, with L-theanine, it's a good, again, great continuation of the conversation around adaptogens. So L-theanine is amino acid. It's naturally found in tea, primarily green tea. And L-theanine is an amino acid that helps produce a calming effect

in the body. It does this through a number of mechanisms. It helps improve an amino acid in the brain called GABA. It increases GABA level. GABA is the body's brake. It's where, you know, something like adrenaline and epinephrine is kind of the body's like quick start, just gets things going. It's the nitric oxide that you want to press if you really want to blast it. Where unfortunately, people are stuck pressing that nitric oxide button all the time and their gas tank is empty. And so that's another type of stressor. So if you're one of those people that you like, I'm running on fight or flight. If anybody's like like i'm always in

like this on mode i'm i'm always turned on and then you're kind of wired and tired being in is great for that because it helps kind of calm the nervous system in those moments where you feel like you're actually a little anxious the beautiful thing about alpene is that it's really well studied extremely safe safe, very few known interactions with medications, which is huge, gentle enough, but you can increase the dose based on your doctor's recommendation to help actually having a very acute anti-anxiety effect. So it's actually one of the most common supplements I use in my practice, even more so than adaptogens in the initial phases when I'm trying to get people

out of that fight or flight mode or that anxiety mode. And they're looking to be less reliant on medications and drugs and kind of like unhealthy foods like caffeine and sugar and chocolate in those kind of acute states. If you consume those things, but not because you're like, I need it, then you're already one step ahead of what we're talking about here. So L-theanine, generally well-tolerated, easy to take, and it works within about 30 minutes. So that's why I think it's a great addition to the adaptogenic conversation. Amazing. All right. Do you want to circle back to that? Yeah, I do. So for example, I recently did a presentation on blueberries.

You know, I talk about brain health and a lot of people say, you know, Dr. Paul, what's the best food for brain health? And blueberries are obviously the first thing that comes to mind. What's neat is that when I started diving into the literature and the research, they were talking about some of the possible benefits on like, you know, type of learning and spatial memory. But what I found really fascinating, Gina, is that when they started looking at some of these animal models of supplementing with blueberries, they found that when you gave blueberries, but then you also exercise that had the best effects. So it almost enhanced the other effect that you're doing the other health effect. And so my point here to the Gene Olivia members that are

listening is that sometimes doing something like your diet and doing supplementation has a synergistic effect. But when you do just supplements, like so many people that walk into a health food store, they grab something off the shelf and they're like, oh, I need something for stress. Give it to me. But if you haven't changed your diet or you haven't actually had a proper energy management and exercise throughout the day, you're really limiting the beneficial effects of those things. So a lot of times that's where we get in the conversation around, I tried it and it didn't work. Well, did you do anything else? Well, that was the light bulb moment for me where I was like, all the body works together

in its health systems, its resiliency systems. And if we just try to short circuit that and circumvent that, we're always going to be kind of left disappointed with the effect. So that's where I think I like having this conversation at this point where we're looking at how do we turbocharge the program rather than, oh yeah, ideas, just pushing supplements because that's a quick, easy way. No, it's strategic that we're doing it now at this point, instead of the first thing that we lead with us, take this injection once a week, take this shake, do this in this way. So I just wanted to kind of bring that full circle is that there's a beautiful synergy between supplements in our own system and also the diet.

So when you do things in the right order, I think that's really where you're going to get the best effects. Yeah, oh my gosh, I love this so much. Because I mean, this is why I preface this whole conversation by saying, as a one offs, you know, we're here talking supplements, and weight loss, because people are here trying to lose weight. And we're trying to say, okay, well, this is how these types of supplements can factor in because, you know, a normal, healthy functioning body has no need to store excess fat, right? Like at the end of the day, getting healthy is going to help you lose weight. I remember one time when

TikTok first started, I was like, okay, let me talk about supplements that can help you lose weight. People went batshit fucking crazy. They're like you, omega-3 is not going to help you lose weight. Vitamin D is not going to help you lose weight. You're telling me you can lose weight by taking magnesium. And I'm like, God, no, that's not what I'm saying at all. But I'm saying if you're deficient in them, it can hinder your body's ability to focus on it. And in combination with doing all the other things, I think that's sort of like the downfall of, you know, this quick information is that everything is much more complex. And you can't, unless you want an hour-long conversation like this. Well, you meant the story, right? Like I think so much about what's important in our lives is the story.

And we understand things in terms of story. I think our current TikTok, Instagram, real type of consumerism is really addictive. And it's obviously really focused on getting that quick dopamine hit, speaking of quick start in the brain. And it unfortunately continues to press that, that press that quick start button, but we lose the story. So we have information, but we have less wisdom. We have knowledge, but we're not actually gaining more clarity. We're not actually getting the big picture.

So taking the time to go through a program like this, listen to the lives, and actually do some of that harder work on looking at what are the things that are driving the reason I got here, like we started talking about right at the beginning of this conversation. And thinking about that and sitting with it and not just focusing on that one number on the scale and being like, what's my story here? When you understand your own story, that's when you can really start getting some profound healing. And ultimately, like I said, right off the top, Gina, I love that you asked that question about, you know, why am I doing what I'm doing? Is that like, I'm interested in the journey of people getting healthier,

not a quick fix. If I wanted to be going to quick fix, if you wanted to go do quick fix, you'd be pushing a total different story here. And I think we have to find out what's your health story. And, and, and, and part, and that story is not done. You're going to continue to writing it. Um, so I think people, um, really miss that Gina, when we start saying, Hey, yeah, supplements have a role to play. But if they miss the first 45 minutes about that conversation, they just came in on that little tick tock reel. They're gonna say, yeah, obviously, just supplements by itself, I'd be the first one to say, yeah, omega three is not gonna help you lose weight, if you don't also do the other things that we talked about, right?

You and I have that hard sell. It's not it's, it's taken a while for people even to be open to what I'm offering in terms of weight loss. Like, you know, I remember back in the day, people were like, I don't want to, I don't want to care about that. I don't care, but I just want to lose weight. I'm like, well, if you do focus on your stress and your sleep, you will now, well, you know, and I think it's like, we are, we're selling the long game. We're selling the actually, you know know make a difference make change you know type of thing it's not an easy sell because man sometimes i think about just if i just did i'd just be the quick fix queen man if i just could sell quick fixes

you know like i think you realize that i think the success of your program now at this point proves that you know you put in the foundational things. And in some cases, it's quite hard because a lot of people have really gone off course and they need to be kind of pulled back. And it's harder to come back to a state of health when you've been in a state of unhealth or lack of health or health deficiency in a long time. Now, I've lived by the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, a maximum, because it's way easier to kind of adjust things if you've been kind of taking care of them the whole time. But if you didn't, then it's going to take some work.

So that's hard. And that's why I think you're not selling the quick fix thing because that journey is what's required to come back. So secondary supplements, I think even so skeptical about any supplement for weight loss, because we just talked about how complex weight loss is. So if you're going to take some, you know, fruit, gooseberry fruit from Ayurvedic medicine, that's going to help lose weight. You're missing the point already. That's not what we're trying to do. In fact, I will save the investigators tons of time and money and say it will fall on its face because that's not the way weight loss works. It has to be now personalizing that. And that's what I like about the secondary supplements

is that I'll say this, and I don't know what you think about this, Gina, is that look at the secondary supplements and say, which ones apply to me the most? Do you have to do every single supplement? No, you don't have to. No one says you have to do that. I've never said that. But I think that there are foundational things. And then now the secondary supplements be like, yeah, you know what?

Dr. Paul is right. Stress in my 30s and 40s was brutal. And that's probably where I need some work. Okay, so I'm going to like look into the pathogens, right? Or I have some heart issues. And, and, you know, my parents have heart issues, I have high blood pressure, you know, CoQ10 actually is probably the one that probably has the best evidence there. That's another secondary supplement that we could talk about. If I have lots of inflammatory issues, my joints are hurting. Well, you know what? Turmeric is a

well-researched nutraceutical that has anti-inflammatory effects. Well, you know what? I think I'm going to invest in that. That's going to be, I like using that nuanced approach. I like using, even using the terminology. I'm going to invest in my health instead of being like, I'm wasting money on this stuff. I'll try it. I'm going to invest in my life because that's the way I look at it. It's investment. So huge. Okay. Speaking of quick, we do have the four left. You mentioned real quickly, let's do a rapid fire. CoQ10. CoQ10, it's a key co-factor for your body's energy production. So that's why I think it's in the secondary supplement list. It's extremely safe, well-studied. Like I said, most of the research is in the cardiovascular realm.

So for example, people that are on cholesterol-lowering medications are deficient in CoQ10 because those cholesterol medications, like for example, atorvastatin, rotuvastatin, sorry, that's libutorin, and atorvastatin is crestor, they deplete CoQ10.

So really helpful for cardiovascular health. I mentioned turmeric already. So turmeric is like, you know, what doesn't it do? It does a ton of anti-inflammatory antioxidant effects. It has a really potent anti-inflammatory effect, but not, it's not going to be one of those things that if you take it, all your pain goes away. Inflammation and pain are two different things. Inflammation is one of the things that drives pain, one of the things that drives pain, but it's not the only thing. So there are certain things like osteoarthritis that actually might respond quite well to turmeric.

That is something that you could look at. I saw you pick up MCT oil there. MCT oil is medium chain triglycerides. And it is a special type of fat that gets really quickly absorbed. It gets absorbed in your stomach. It bypasses the typical absorption. And the whole claim to fame behind MCT oil, Gina, is that it's a good fat, usually sourced from coconuts, that helps offer an alternative fuel source to certain cells in the body, aka mainly the brain cells. And so it helps people kind of feel more energetic. It does help people feel a little bit more full. That may help

translate into not eating as much or sticking to that. That's the way I look at MCT oil. What do you think about MCT? What have you heard from your own experience or your members in terms of what they like about MCT? So, I mean, I used to use this so many years ago before the whole bulletproof coffee became popular type of thing with natural bodybuilders because i was into fitness and and and whatnot so i would use bodybuilders and then i got into sort of like like high stress people

because i worked with a lot of like high level execs but then i realized also moms as well where it was kind of like the this the described of like kind of um calm the brain and the little bit of a people felt like a little bit of energy on the brain, little bit of a kick. That's what I see too. I see the, I see the kick for sure as they added in their coffee. Cause they're,

that's like one of the best ways to do it. So they morning routine usually consists of like a scoop of collagen. So they're kind of making their own, you know, trademark bulletproof coffee, you know, those like, you know,

David Asprey's thing. And that's kind of like a quick and dirty way of doing it yourself. And I think you still get the benefits from it. It's not the same as being on a ketogenic diet, which is one of the things that people tell about the ketogenic diet is because it produces ketones and MCT oil is a precursor to ketones. That's kind of how that kick comes from fueling your brain cells in a different way other than using sugar. So that's what ketones do. And MCT oil may do that for some people in a kind of a transient way. I want to have that ketone conversation.

What? It also helps people go to the bathroom too. I find that is another thing that keeps them regular. Is that like that oil in the morning? They're like, whew, magnesium at night, oil in the morning. It's, yeah. No, but don't drink too much or you'll be shitting your pants all day long. Yeah, don't overdo it.

And if you are somebody, people come in there like, is it normal just to have like three loose bowel movements a day? I'm like, not really. And they're like, yeah, that happened when I started, Gina. I said, well, yeah, how much magnesium are you taking? Are you doing all of them? She's like, yeah, I did that. And the MCD.

Speaking of, I see a lot of people saying like, oh, if I'm having loose bowel movements, is there a different type of magnesium? Yes, there's the bisglycinate that you mentioned. So I see a lot of comments of people who it looks like you missed the first conversation on the basic supplements where we talked about probiotics, prebiotics, magnesium, vitamin D, omega. So definitely revisit that conversation. Lastly, which is available on our podcast and in the app. But lastly, trace minerals. Yeah, trace minerals. This has a lot to do with hydration because one of the key things I think people are being asked that's very different from previous programs

is they're asked to drink more water on the Gina Livy program. And trace minerals kind of help allow that water not to just rush through your body. What does that mean? That means that when you have enough minerals in your body, Gina, inside your cells, water follows minerals. That's just one of the principles of what's called osmosis. And so when you have very, when you have cells that are low in minerals, then the water is not going to get retained in those cells.

So if you're feeling that, you know, all that water is dehydrating you more, or you're feeling that you're getting a little bit like, you know, dizzy, or you're getting these type of symptoms that like muscle twitches, because again, you might have been deficient minerals from the start. And you really up the water trace minerals is a great way to make sure that you're you're trying to replete those minerals. Minerals are a really common deficiency. So a lot of people's bodies have enough to get by, but not enough to optimize. And what you're trying to do with the program is you're all of a sudden now feeding your

body for maybe the first time, and you're not having all the key anchoring minerals there to keep that hydration there. So really, I think that's really a foundational one, especially if you're struggling with retaining that water. Amazing. Final words, words of wisdom. Yeah, I think we had a lot of a lot of nuggets, a lot of pearls that we dropped on people today. You know, I just, I like I said before, what's the story of your health? We're looking, we're looking at the long game here with the program, we're not talking about quick fixes.

And this is kind of wacky to say in the supplement conversation, because a lot of people would think that that's where this conversation would be around. It's really about finding your journey. And that could be a little bit different than everybody else. Especially I'm now talking to the people that have gone through the program a couple of times now that they've gone through it and they're like, okay, so I haven't lost the weight. They're not in maintenance yet. So what else can I do? So you have the big blocks,

you have the foundational stones in, and now you're looking to level up. You're looking to take it, take your weight loss to the next level, maybe you've plateaued, you know, that's really where I would, where I would start looking at the things that maybe in the past have been obstacles for you, and now addressing them in, in the proper succession, getting the help in those areas that you need, or really doubling down on the spot. Everybody, if, you know, Gina, we just had family day, you know, people probably indulge a little bit.

Everybody has areas of their life that they have metabolic weaknesses and they have things that they probably are unwilling to change. My challenge to everybody today is reflect on that and reflect on areas that you feel like, where are you holding out? Where are you unwilling to kind of go to in your health? And maybe I really am addicted to this thing. And this is, you know, I'm doing all the diet, I'm doing everything, but I, and so where are you willing to level up? And that's my challenge to the people that, that feel that they're stuck, go to the areas where you probably don't want to go. And that's probably where you need to work. Oh, I love this so much. And I think that it was so insightful for our returning members. Now that things have calmed down, you got the routine and you've made all these changes. Then it's kind of

like, that's where you can go deeper. I love this. This is so great. I think that's either. I don't know. That gave me chills. I mean, I, I get excited about that and I also love a good challenge. Yeah, of course. Exactly. Yeah. Um, yeah. Awesome conversation. Uh, I will see everybody next session because I think this is my last one for the year thanks Sheena thank you Dr. Paul Dr. Paul Herkel I should know where people can get you

don't worry my son the other day was saying daddy I googled your name you're famous I said no I'm not I'm not famous but he's like yeah you can find your name online. So if you want to find me, just search my name online.

Probably some pictures of me playing volleyball back in McMaster days that I probably don't want to take back. I try not to Google myself. That's Paul Herkel, H-R-K-A-L-N-D. Thanks, everyone, for joining, watching us live and listening after the fact.

Dr. Paul, I don't want to say goodbye because I already miss you, but I know we'll be chatting more. So we'll chat soon. Bye everyone. Thank you.