The Livy Method Podcast - Let's Talk Working Through The Messy Middle with Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer - Spring/Summer 2024

Episode Date: June 11, 2024

Gina chats with best-selling author and learning expert Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer about working through the messy middle of The Program.You can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspringsummer2024Topics covered:Introducing Dr. Deena Kara ShafferBreaking down the mental aspect of dieting and diet historyWhy is change and growth so uncomfortable?Whether this is your first Program or your 16th, the messy middle can be a struggleLosing the weight can feel unnerving when dieting feels comfortable and familiarIs the struggle bus parked outside your house? Start by exploring what you’re struggling withHow can we quiet the noise and make time for reflection?Why is it so hard to make time for ourselves?What actions can we take to work through the messy middle?Expectations and goal weight- ask yourself where your expectations are coming fromLetting go of the timeline you have envisionedWeight loss is a byproduct of being healthyWhat are you here to learn?How Dr. Deena supports learners and where to find herawakenedlearning.ca@awakenedlearningTo learn more about the Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple,

and Amazon Music. You're going to have this ability to now reframe. Allow yourself time throughout the day to stress the fuck out. The thoughts and the feelings and the behavior cycle can start changing. Here we are seven weeks into the living method. And, you know, when you're following the program, it gets easier as you go in a sense that you're more in tune to your body's needs. You know what your body's needs, your needs, you are into the routine, but in so many ways it gets harder. And we are currently in the messy middle. And this is where we really start to deal with our feelings. We start to get in our own way. We start to give up hope. We start to, it starts to get hard for so many reasons. And here to walk us through this

is Dr. Dina Cara Shaper. She is back. She's the author of Feel Good Learning. Hi, good morning. Thank you for joining us. We need you so desperately. I'm so happy to be here. It feels like, it just feels like visiting old friends. It's the very best. I'm like, yeah, the theme song. And then like, there's like Dr. Paul, there's Dr. Beverly. It's so fun. So hi. Hi, all the lovely people this morning. Hi, Gina.

It's really nice to see you. Hello. Well, we are friends. I was just saying this last night on my live, like everybody here, myself, my team are amazing guest experts. We truly want people to be successful. And I've learned a lot over the last 30 years of helping people lose weight. And we've learned a lot. This is our 21st program. You know, we've helped hundreds of thousands of people be

successful at losing their weight. And it's not as easy as the diet industry makes it. Eat less, exercise more, they say, right? And even if you're following as the diet industry makes it. Eat less, exercise more, they say, right? And even if you're following the program and I've laid it all out, what to eat and when and the tweaks you need to make, it's that mental part that really just adds a whole other layer. And nobody is talking about this in the diet industry. Nobody is talking about the feelings that you have when it comes to losing weight. And I know you've done the program. I know you are so familiar with our members.

What say you about this? What say I? Well. Oh, my gosh. Like, what a harmful mess. What a harmful mess. And no doubt a big, big portion of why we're all here uh is because there's so much that went wrong with all of that there's so much that goes wrong

there's so much um oh like uh kind of calcifying this like oh oh, it must be a failing. It's like some moral failing that it didn't work or it worked and then it didn't last. It works for other people, but not me. And so it's just like that the person that me here, you there are a problem when actually it's an enormous system fail. It is. lucky or whatever, like there's so many, many, many storylines on storylines, when actually, it was just based on being fed an original lie of, if you do this, this mathematical equation, work out and pound your body, like more, more, more. Yeah. And eat less, there we go. And eat less, less, less. We were just fooling around with floating emojis a moment in the background um that somehow that somehow that equals um that equals the results that folks are looking for oh goodness like where is the spirit in all of that what happens then when we've never dealt with

oh when i'm very very stressed when the world is knocking me down, when the wind is not just not at my back, but it like kind of pummeling me, what do I do to cope? Am I turning to food? Do I even remember that like the hunger is saying, well, I'm done. Am I over it? Like, am I participating in over nutrition? Am I overfeeding? feeding. And so am I eating for any other reason than just like the beautiful simplicity of lovely fuel, sometimes celebration? Am I using it as a kind of, I don't know, like mechanism for something else? I'm so sad. I'm deep in grief. I'm so angry. I'm so anxious, but I haven't built another

toolbox of like, I don't have any other repertoire that's well practiced. So anyways, I'm like, what say I, what say I is I'm so, so sorry for all the pain of that. I am absolutely born into that same world and have had it, have had that body shame and hate to turn inwards about my size or shape or what I'm eating, what I'm not eating all my life, just alongside every one of you. And the greatest gift of this program is more mental space to be creative, to be entrepreneurial, to be in service, to be more present, to be more patient, and to let go of, gosh, all the shame that so many of us carry around that we had failed somehow like nope we were fed we were fed a fraudulent system we're fed a fraudulent system and so now we're

here and go wait wait a minute this is like an affordable accessible kind science-based multi-wisdomed program that doesn't say that doesn't is not participating in any fat shaming at all none zero i never hear that from you all bodies all humans are welcome here and i like so what say i is thank you for including me thank you for including that thank you for every for making every person feel like they are part of a community where they're seen and not judged finally yeah yeah that is. That is what we do. And I love what you said about, um, it's just like a can of worms, right? I love what you said about, like, it's about creating space in your life to do other things and focus on other things other than your weight.

It has been all consuming and numbers don't lie. There are more diets than ever and obesity rates just keep climbing. So you are not alone. And you were taught that, you know, if you did a diet and you lost the weight, that diet was successful. But if you gained it back, you failed when in reality, that diet was never designed. You were never going to be able to sustain your weight in that way. And then you get into how we do utilize food. It's so complicated. There are a lot of emotions to it because we use food for so many things, to survive, to enjoy, to bond over, to show love, to celebrate. We use food for so many things in so many different ways in our lives. And dieting really, in the way that it has been presented to

people, is absolutely about disconnecting from yourself. Starving, depriving, not eating when you're hungry, trying to ignore your body's cues. It literally is not like it's disconnecting. So if you can look back at your diet history, that's why tracking and going back and really taking a look at when this started and what was happening in your life, you're going to be able to see that story. You're going to know what your story is and hopefully the truth behind that, that if you are still here 5, 10, 15, 20 years later trying to lose weight, you have not failed. You have not given up on yourself. You are still showing up for yourself. You are still trying.

And essentially there is still hope. And I'm, I'm, I'm grateful for everyone who's come across and put their faith in the Libby method. Honestly. Um, you know, it is a passion project of mine and having people like you on board who share your knowledge because you have just as much passion as helping people. I mean, what better, what, I mean, that isn't that what it's all about? Honestly. It's good to be here. Everyone just feel that everyone just like their nervous systems went, Oh, thank God we're all here. Let's just hang out a bit. Everyone. Let's take it easy together. It's hard work for so many years. If you think about like all of the intentional effort, okay, eat it this time,

but not this time. Eat these things, but not these things. Do this exercise, but not this exercise. It's like, it's so many days and so many years of just not being able to hear oh I'm hungry oh now I'm full and then being up at night worrying berating oneself about what one did do or didn't do the languaging a clean eating day what like a not a dirty eating day is the end of this like a a good eating bad eating day a cheat day like it's so loaded and if we don't include conversations about stress and rest and overwhelm and hormones and perimenopause and grief and relationships and work satisfaction. If we don't do any of the reflective piece, then it's just a surface system that will, then no transformation is possible.

So I love coming for all the weeks. I love being here in that pre-week, getting to help folks before they get overwhelmed. And I love coming around, talking about all the information that you provide, which I think is so generous. It's not intended to overwhelm. And I love coming to talk about like, oh, is everyone uncomfortable with downsizing? Great, let's get in there. And I love coming here, this messy middle piece when folks are bored maybe or fumbling or like well it's not the

shiny new thing and it's not the celebratory end thing where the heck am I so I thank you for having me here it's so it like it's such an honor because here we all are we're like am I kind of treading water what's happening what's happening? You know, what a good moment to connect about. I love what you just said there. It's not the shiny new thing and it's not the celebratory end thing. So what the fuck is it? How do we get through it? Because it's so important.

So many people don't, right? Like a lot of people, we lose a lot of people along the way. And then they start coming back now, which I love because they start seeing what other people are doing. Like, oh shit, this might actually work. I want in now, but they have to do the work. They have to go back because that's how it works. I'm not trying to punish people when I say you have to, you have to put the time in. That's not a punishment. You've got to put the time in. So now that people have put this kind of time and energy into seven weeks in, where do they go from here? Like, why is change and growth?

Because really that's what's happening. Why is it so uncomfortable? Why is it so darn uncomfortable? like some people might in this moment right in the middle if they if they if they connect with the language of messy middle if they're feeling like they're floundering if there's a bit of languishing like it's not the excitement of the earliest days and it's not the like you know fist pumping of the of the end it could actually be that people are like I'm not experiencing change in this moment I'm not this like doesn't feel so fun or this doesn't feel so easy or like, where did my motivation go? I'm, I'm, I'm in the middle somewhere. I mean, others might be just rolling on through and be like, bring it every week. It's a new thing. It's like,

great. Yeah. But it's always the folks you're trying to reach who aren't having the kind of that easefulness or that like, um, that natural fit, the folks who might be stumbling, the folks who are like, should I quit? Is this worth it? Yeah, right. Great. Fair questions. So why is change hard? It's because it's inconsistent. It's because sometimes it's slow. Sometimes it's nuanced. Sometimes the change isn't the kind of change you were anticipating maybe you thought oh change is when my body's different and actually change might be when your mind has shifted a little bit it might be that change is happening and you don't notice because all of a sudden there's more freedom to think about other things change might be like a kind of um almost like incremental restedness at night like maybe you're sleeping more so it's not really you're not measuring inches here there aren't calipers out there's

no tape measure here you don't have to do any of that stuff that like turns your body into some like mechanistic thing change could be wild big bold transformative or it could be the smallest subtlest thing of like wow look what's happening when i'm eating i'm internalizing those four questions oh so change is hard because it's individual because it's non-linear because it's individual, because it's nonlinear, because it's often not what we expect. And because it can, over time, when you rack up enough small changes, your life might look quite different. The routines that you once had, your go-tos that you once had, they don't hold up anymore. Yeah. You're being challenged.

We're all being challenged in new ways. Whoa, I'm so anxious right now. I'm so stressed right now. Well, I know what I used to do. I know what I'm tempted to keep doing. But if I'm here to create new habits, I really said I was after something here. I had a big, ambitious goal here. Well, I better find other coping mechanisms because frankly, eating when I'm not hungry or overeating or denying food or eating this food that doesn't feel very good after, it doesn't actually work very well. So change is uncomfortable for all kinds of reasons. And how normal? How normal. So I want to get into, because that's what's happening right now. People are recognizing that their old habits are no longer serving them. But before I get into that though, I do want to just frame this in a different way for some of

our many returning members, because it is, it's expected that you are to do as many rounds as the program as needed until you reach your goal. What I love about the living method is we break it down into 91 day digestible bits. There is a start and there is an end, and then there is a middle. So the feeling that you get when you do start and you work through that middle and you're here at the end, I mean, like, there's no better feeling, but this is also reflective of your weight loss journey. There is a start and there will be an end. There has to be an end to your weight loss journey. And then there's this whole middle space. So whether this is your first program and you are in the middle of your first program, or this is your 16th program and you are in the middle of your weight loss journey, I think it's same, same, it's same, same. Would you agree? Yes. Oh my gosh. And I always make so many notes when you're talking, cause you ask all these very good layer questions. So no, can you imagine how many of us might have identified as either a particular body shape uh identified as a person on a diet yeah a person who needs to lose weight

identified that's part of my identity yeah part of yes always on a diet right and now so when you talk about there being an end and all the feels that might come up with that is like, oh, a part of our identity is shifting. Who are you when you're not on a diet? Who are you when you finish this project? Yes. So that can be real scary. That can be real destabilizing for a moment. See, that gets me excited because I love like reinventing.

I love learning. I love growing. I love working through my shit. It's all about learning what you need to learn, working through what you need to work through to actually make real change in your life. Like if you woke up today and you are alive, you are living your best life. So we sound like your best life is out there. It's right here right now. I get excited about that shit, but I can also see how that might make some people really nervous. And when it comes to dieting, people do this. When I lose my weight also, I'm going to, I'm going to start dating. I'm going to travel the world. I'm going to quit my job. I'm going to start a business. I'm going to all of those things where they put this pressure on themselves. And of course, then life is throwing you everything you need to learn to be able to accomplish that. But the flip side of that and what you're saying is like, you're comfortable with who you are, whether, you know, maybe you're making choices or living in a certain way that doesn't necessarily make you happy, but it is comfortable.

It is what you know. And that change for a lot of people could be very unnerving. Yeah. I think maybe like the word familiar feels true for me. Like we get really familiar with a way of identifying with a way of being. Yeah. Cause you know the outcome. Yeah. Yeah. And so how unfamiliar to be like, Hmm, what would happen? What would actually happen if I didn't need to do this anymore? If I was maintaining, if I, if I knew what to do really simply, if I felt like I'd overindulged, what would happen if I was comfortable in my own skin what would happen if I was sleeping well working out in a way that felt kind of resonant if I was really in tune with my hunger cues and I didn't have to do this anymore I didn't have to have this as a project I didn't have this angst I didn't have a cycle of kind of self-hate and shame. What would that open up? And so I'm, I'm not a big fan of like, do this weight and then, and then enter into the good

stuff. That's not my nature. I just like, I try to barge into all the things. I don't, I don't really, I'm not great waiter. I'm not very patient. But what would happen if that love relationship comes your way? What would happen if you wrote that book? What would happen if you did that TED talk? What would happen? What would happen? What would happen?

And so that can be really scary. It can be really scary. I don't judge any human for that. That can be really, really scary to imagine a different kind of identity for yourself, to identify in a different way so I don't know for me this is one of the richest conversations because it's where people often get stuck it's where the habits rear they're like real well-established heads yeah and so I don't know it's like a it's not a very rich analogy, but I'll tell you. So I've

tried to learn French a lot of my life. So I'm, you know, I'm born in Ontario, Canada, and we receive quite a bit of French education, even in English school. And I, and I also lived in Spain, I used to teach in Spain. And so I tried to learn these two languages. And I tell you, I would get all the way up to this one place, subjunctive, where you're like, I doubt that this, I wonder, like really for me, very sophisticated. If you're a Francophone or if you speak Spanish, it's like not so complicated. But when you're learning a second language, like, wow, I'm getting into some kind of existential ethereal place. And that was my edge. And I've never yet been, I'm back on Duolingo.

If anyone wants to be friends, I'm like, day 52, Duolingo. I'm going to do it this time. But like, where's your edge? So what would happen if you didn't lose the same 10 pounds over, over, over, over again? What's on the other side of that? What's on the other side of that? And ease and play and pleasure is on the other side of the loop or the well-worn groove or the rut or whatever the language is so we talk about messy middle some of the ways you know forever a learning strategist

some of the ways i can imagine through is one define it you don't have to if you love it like the point of learning strategies you don't have to change anything if you're like i love week seven week seven feels great great and good you're nail it. But if it's for folks who are like, I don't know. I don't know if I can do it. I'm not sure. Right. Yeah. So you define it. Messy middle is whatever weeks five through eight, give it a turn, give it a, give it a give it a time frame so it's not forever or you can give it new language does messy help you does it feel like a relief does it normalize something you're in good community we're just like all in a big mess right now and i don't feel so bad that it's a struggle right okay or we look at it small the messy middle is just made up of individual days. No one ever does more than one day at a time.

You're doing this day. You're doing this day. So there's lots of ways through if you're feeling like, I just don't know. Yeah. I love that because I also don't want to dismiss the people who are moving and grooving and loving this. There are people who are like, bring it on. I am loving all of this. This is amazing. But this conversation beyond the messy middle, it's about recognizing that the struggle is real, right? At some point,

I always say, if you don't contemplate quitting at least once, are you even really doing the program? I mean, we do have those unicorns who are like, I did it. I loved it. All of it. It was amazing. It was so easy. I mean, I think in hindsight, people are like, Oh, that was actually so easy. And they forget about the moments that they struggled because maybe they did take a day by day approach. Let's talk about that struggle bus because people always talk about how I'm on the struggle bus. And I talked about the struggle bus for years until it occurred to me, probably through having a conversation with you that if the struggle bus is constantly sitting outside of your house and you keep opening up the

window and you're like, there's a struggle bus. There it is again today. There's the, it's waiting for me. There's that fucking struggle bus again. Maybe it's waiting for you to get on the bus, right? Like just, it's like, yeah, I'm bitch. I'm waiting for you. Get on the bus. Let's go. So we can move forward. You can start dealing with that. But what if someone isn't really ready? Because sometimes the fields are deep. Like some people have their weight issue tied to traumas in their lives that they're not even really aware of. But how do they work?

How do we work through the fields whether they are the surface or they are traumatic and deep? I know that's a loaded question. I love it. I just have to take notes. I'm like part one, part two, part three. Question 4.F. to take notes I'm like part one part two part three question four point f okay so what I would say is oh god aren't we all just trying so hard as human beings man oh man that's what that question

reminds me of like just to be a person um okay so the struggle bus is parked outside all of our houses I think the first thing I want to say is, you know, like I want to honor there are different types of struggle and I'm not trying to rank them. Sometimes the struggle is around context or systems. You know, when I think about when I think about racism, when I think about transphobia, if that's part of the struggle bus, Ooh, that is real and horrific. And so like, I, I just, I just want to be really mindful. I'm, I'm a justice oriented human always. And I think about the ways I think about the ways that people are so harmed. And so like, it's like different struggle buses sometimes require different fanny packs. Like what, what, what's the backpack we're taking on that bus. And so sometimes we're.

Or what bus? Because there can be a whole lineup. There could just be endless lineup of buses representing all of the struggles that you are dealing with in life while you are trying to accomplish this one thing of weight loss. That's right. So sometimes struggles require like, I have to go, I have to go to HR because like there's some, there's some real ugly stuff happening at work. Yeah. I have to actually find a different job. I have to, I have like, there are many, there are many types of struggles. Get out of a relationship. Yeah. There's, and then there's deeper stuff. Yeah. Totally. Lots of struggles on top of struggles. Get out of a relationship. And then there's deeper stuff. Yeah. Totally. Lots of struggles on top of struggles. Lots of struggles on top of struggles.

Exactly. And so also struggles, you mentioned trauma. So there are many people who will find your program so therapeutic. And also this program, even with beautiful dr beverly is in therapy and so is therapy is this the invitation like whoa that that struggle bus is like growing moss it is it is the like the tires are flat it ain't moving you know it's got 55 parking violations it's one of those you see it you see it yeah yeah so is that an invitation was like the real reason you were called to do this program is to look squarely and bravely at something many things that actually require an ally and so great great this program encourages no shame in that there's no shame in that it can come no shame in that. It can come with,

it's hard work. It can be a relief. Find your person. It may take, you know, you might have to try more than one time to find your right person. There are places in community, there are sliding scales. If you don't have coverage, there are ways to access mental health support. And that's a real thing. And it may be just the missing ingredient, depending upon what this journey comprises for you. It also could be for some folks, I don't want to say simpler, but it could be around engaging practices that are ready at hand. Like I'm so busy in my entire day that I actually don't reflect ever on my choices. And I can see that now in a way that I didn't see that before. And now's the time.

Now's the time. It's not about documenting every single thing I eat. It's not about writing calories. It's about how I feel. It's about what triggers me. It's about, oh, when I i overeat i don't feel well and yet the experiential learning of that isn't quite like sticking so there are so many opportunities for the fullest range of human experience from the deepest darkest things to the like oh i'm

kind of a workaholic here and i don't make a lot of room for stuff. Great. What's the invitation there? What's the invitation? I know I've shared this before. One of the richest pieces of learning, really unlearning for me in doing your program, Gina, is I know and I teach rest. I literally I literally teach rest but I'm quite poor at consistently taking it for myself and so that like and when I don't rest I get the cravings and when I get the cravings how and that makes so much sense to keep going to have enough energy to keep going i deprive myself of sleep yeah i really don't do that so much anymore i don't need to i don't want to it doesn't feel good and i can hear my body seeing it so what a gift so the messy middle is a time to listen carefully what's really being called like what's calling you what's calling your

attention what are the stickiest places what feel what still feels confusing what are you angry at you still are you angry at week seven what are you angry at are you comparing yourself to other people what's the storyline and so all of that is just if we can bring a compassionate stance to it. What's that information about? What's that feedback for? What am I being invited to notice and then potentially take action towards? It's not around judgment. No one is judging you here no one is judging no one but what's the invitation there are not just 20 questions but what is like 120 question actually because of the way that like um inquiries within each question sit with each one like savor

it like a morsel of wisdom yeah is this real for me does this land how does it feel in the body am i pushing it away am i resistant am i already storytelling am i putting it down am i being like now that's not me but i've given it approximately five seconds there is so much material here that's meant to be provocative and meant to invite us kindly to turn inwards. So the messy middle is a soulful time if you let it be. I love that because that is, it's part, and this is what I mean by it's part of the process. It's part of the process. It's part of the process. I love the invitation. I love that.

Like turn up the volume. What, why, what is going on? Like, and take time to sit. That 20, that maximizing checklist should be a maximizing reflection list. I got to change the name on that. I've already wrote the book, but I got to change the name on that. And I always say that it's not there to stress you out. It's there for look for it, look for areas of opportunity, but it's there also for you to reflect, to take time, not to go check, check, check, check, check, check, check. Okay, good. It's like

to actually like reflect on where you're at. What, what do I need right now? Where am I at? What do I need? What am I struggling with? And perhaps why? What is it about what I'm struggling with? It's never about the food. Here's what I can say after helping, I don't know how many people lose weight. It has never been about the food ever. The food part is so easy. Also, what makes it complicated, though, at the same time, but you're dealing with all these fields that are coming up for your own good, because these are the things that you need to work through to get to where you need to go, are the triggers, are the habits. There's a lot of noise.

How can we quiet the noise? There's a lot of noise to actually like take that time to reflect. It's a lot easier said than done. We don't know when we need help. And when we do recognize we need help, we're so resistant in asking for help. Oh, look, there was another 15 part question, Gina. Okay. All right. Okay. I'll do my best. I can't help myself. I can't help myself. It's the best. You know, in some ways,

I think I've come to see the messy middle as a time of connecting the dots. That's what it feels like to me. There's like a dot over here and a dot over there and that's like oh there's a trigger and there's a habit and there's a groove and there's a response and there's a reaction and there's a kind of um you know inner critic how am i oh oh wow so it can be a time of real curiosity, curiosity turned inward. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So, oh my God, what was your question, Gina? Why is it so hard? Like I'll have people come at the program, I'm struggling, this isn't working

for me. And I go and I check and they literally, it's the first question they ever asked or they're hardly participating. And I am assuming that they have been following along. They're like, I'm doing all the things that I'm like, where, like, where have you been? Why are you not reaching out for help? Whether it's to a therapist or out in the group or helping themselves actually take the time and feel worthy of trying to figure out what's going on why is that so difficult yeah I mean it's interesting because when you'd asked it the first time it's like there's this beautiful there's a there's like a beautiful braid there because it was like how do people make the time to how do people and then it's asking like why is it so difficult

I think that that's the braid is because it's very difficult in our current lives and how fast, like just the velocity that we're living in it to make that time. Yeah. To remember by the end of the day. And so if we're, what, if what we're talking about is habit change, if what we're talking about is deep honest laying bare reflection that requires quietude it requires pausing before we just go about doing the regular what's automated

it's like a very difficult kind of contrast there there's friction there and so what can people do about it you know step one are there can you make can you protect can you boundary or book in just small micro moments of quiet with the express like if you're not getting what you want yet if if this program is still a wrestling can you make time to actively lean into and engage in reflection because otherwise like you're so clear from day one it's not actually about the food yes we follow the food plan but it's not actually about the food and then you will say yes we have to we want to watch our water it's not actually about the water it's not actually about any singular one of these ingredients and and all together this kind of like tapestry that

you've given to us underneath all of that is here like what's here and it's also in here and it's also like what's your connection with your body and you keep doing it's also like, what's your connection with your body? And you keep doing, it's almost like these wonderful exercises. Like, we'll try it this way. I mean, this week is so brilliant. We're going to break the meals up into two. And then you're going to see, because it's right. You had us do something interesting last week again, right? So we're going to downsize.

Well, that brought up a lot of stuff. Okay. This week. Well, if you eat a little and then you pause well look look what just happened turns out i'm not so hungry for the rest of it like that's what you're getting us to do sometimes we are hungry oh look it's flexible and we can hear that yes you're getting you're like i'm going to prompt you this way i'm going to prompt you this way this way so if we think it's just about food it's not so mechanical like that it's not mechanical yes meat is like a

different facet of exploring a relationship with food eating movement sleep community like that that that's what you're asking us to do and it's these different prompts, different prompts. So why is it difficult? Why is it difficult? Because it's not just easier. Like the point of habits is to automate things. So we're all in, like there's a, the automated part is, is going. And you're asking us, wait, wait, before you keep doing the thing that you always do, pause, notice, consider. That shit's hard,

Gina. It is hard. Excuse me. And you got to, sometimes you got to do some deep reflection on it. Okay. Yeah. And so what are the conditions for reflection? Like reflection isn't going to happen if you're like, okay, kids, dance class. Okay. Driving you to work. Okay. Meetings. Okay. I'm going to girl boss the shit out of it. Okay. Got that. Like, how's reflection possible in any of that? So then what I genuinely think happens and how wouldn't it happen is, okay, I'm going to eat the way Gina says, and I'm going to drink the water. But the rest of my life looks exactly the same. Welcome to programs one through four for me. Going to look exactly the same. I'm going to change another thing. Because it's fine. It's just about the water and the food. And then what happens? Oh, look, been on a year long plateau. Oh, look, on put the weight back on yes of course of course because you're not really doing or or you reach your goal which they type people do right a type people are classic oh you just follow all the rules right that's all the things and then they

get into maintenance and then they're just like everything hits them because you still have to work through all of that stuff then they get into maintenance they're like wow wait i'm like well yeah this and this is why it's not about being perfect. This is why when you have that thing, what you're learning from not doing the things, what you're learning from not being perfect is so valuable and really feeds into actually making change. Okay. So I'm hearing, cause I want to get into people feeling like they haven't done enough up to this point that it's too late for them, all the fields that come with being in the middle. But what do you suggest?

Journaling, setting intentions, end of day reflections. Like is there an action that we can take with this? Besides ways we can find the time. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So that's so great. So I would say, look, one of the first pieces of advice I gave so pre-week one is because there's so many different avenues to engage find the one that feels useful so if that wasn't possible if it

didn't feel doable and actionable in the full throttle life that you live great then start with which avenue feels easiest what path feels easiest to follow I have the app on my phone I haven't been consistent but I'm actually pretty good with app trackers I'm gonna use they'll have the book great oh I opened the book the first week and then I stopped but I actually like reading and I'm gonna put a timer on my phone to remind me I'm going to we already talked about habit stacking I'm gonna I'm to just marry it to another thing I already do. After I brush my teeth, I read Gina with my morning cup of coffee. I read Gina or like me for a year. I commute to work. I'm listening to the podcast. I have that time. I'm going to spend

it with Gina. So number like the first way is what is most useful? What's the thing that you could press play, pull the lever easily today, start great. Yeah. If you're already doing that and you're like, actually ready for more, or I need to, I need to amplify or deepen. Great. What's either the next easiest easiest or this is my favorite and i'll really irritate everybody what's the one you've been avoiding if it's like i hate sitting still in writing it's positively the worst great do that super what's the thing that feels so agitating under your skin like gina don't make me do that that. Like, what's there? What's there? If it's too scary or traumatizing, obviously don't do that. Don't do the thing that's going to make

things worse. But then there's the invitation. Ooh, if I sit in silence, it is so rattling to my system. Great. Talk about a wonderful invitation to seek out professional mental health support. So you can, so you can work through that in a really guided safe container. Like that's all therapy is. It's like, what's the hardest stuff I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. So skillfully holding it with you. So there are so many ways and modalities. Is it something to do with your hands? So movement? I like, I don't move very much and I'd like to start doing that is it that I really want to physically write I want to do a journaling app on my phone I want to track I want to actually fill out the workbook pieces like there are so many different ways and I would say

do it by ease do it by the curiosity of challenge and whatever you do is make it small. Gina, you are not asking any human to spend five hours a day doing this. I know that there's some people who will, and that's amazing. Show up to everything, participate in every conversation. But for those people who are like overwhelmed or not my life, don't do it. You don't have to. But what's one adjustment after today's conversation you could make? One rock that you could look underneath and how might you support that work? Is it through writing? Is it through contemplation? Is it through movement? Is it through talking with a buddy? I mean, they're like, I don't know, tell me tens of thousands of pals ready to be friends with you and hop on a morning walk and talk here. So many different ways to do this work less lonely and more awake. Less lonely and more awake and do hard things that make it easier. Yeah. I love that takeaway.

It doesn't have to all be hard. You can work through big fields. You can work, do hard things, but you can make it as easy as possible for yourself. I love that. Struggle bus. What's on the fanny pack.

So on the fanny pack, I'm bringing with me a buddy from the program. I'm bringing with me that app that I can track my water. Cause I've been inconsistent. I am going to bring my non-negotiable half an hour of movement every day. That's not like absolute pound, pound, pound, but what's kind movement feel like for you. So what's in your toolbox that you're building the house? What's in your backpack that you're carrying on with you to the struggle bus?

We're building, we're building new strategies. That's the point of the program, I think. Love it. Okay. So let's talk about expectations. At this point in the program, people are already starting to talk about, I don't have enough time to lose weight. I mean, it's interesting to me and always has been because people come into the program with all these expectations for the first few weeks when really you should shift those expectations to the last few weeks in the first month, they think they can lose 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 pounds. But yet it's not that same amount of time on the back end of the program is not enough time. And I'm always like, why is it enough time in the

first six weeks of the program, but it's not enough time in the last six weeks of the program. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that when they've done diets previously, it gets harder as you go physically in the sense that your body is fighting you. You're, you are forcing it to burn fat. You're eating even less. You're exercising even more. It feels like a fight with the living method. It's, it's the opposite because you are only working more in tune to your body's needs and continue to address your body's needs and continue to allow it and give it the platform to focus on fat loss. So I understand it from that perspective, but why do people get so also, I know this is another 15 part question it's going to take them

the time it's going to take and so why if they if they can't fit it into a 91 day program do they feel like it's not worth doing or they might as well give up when you're not meant to fit into this 91 day box I know that was a little like this question this question i feel it i feel this question all i really want to ask is like where'd those expectations come from where they come what are the origins what are the origins of those? Because we only have control over so many things. And we can't actually control what our bodies are going to do with this kind of like with this health amplified approach to not just eating and movement but like to our lives yeah some of us will experience stubbornness of like the body going what is how are we doing it again is it are we are we going through this whole cycle again we're you know like a kind of distrust because

starvation overworked is starvation overworked some bodies are going to be like, thank God, like I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready to be freed, you know, but we can't control that. So 91 days is a perfect amount of time for a healthful program, but a body takes the time a body needs so we can decide on the number here and we can follow along the best we can but we may need more i imagine there's some people who need love boom i came for 10 pounds i'm done okay yeah look yes okay but there's like where did the expectations of well i'm just going to do it i'm going to lose 60 pounds in one program like oh if we went underneath that if we went underneath that what was the life streaming you that's how you started went into the, the weight or grief or kind of disruption from body cues,

how long have those been in place? And so if it's been a while and if we're a little bit like it's taking us a bit of time to realize what this program is all about and to do the deeper work, of course, it's going to lead to disappointment because it's like, oh, I just came to lose some pounds and I'm not losing 60 pounds yet in 35 days. Well, I'm so sorry. Like, actually, thank God. What would happen if a human did that? seems really scary to me actually yeah yeah so oof like number one around expectations i think more than numbers on a scale it's around how do you want to feel how How do you feel? And you know, people, you know, people who haven't lost the weight that they wanted to yet and are on the journey who are radiant, glowing, like, whoa, vivacious, healthful, luminous. Well, I choose that like that, that. So sometimes people get really, I'm so sometimes people get really I'm going to a wedding I'm going to a wedding in the fall and I just I want to look spectacular and slim and it's

like don't you actually want to feel so good in your own skin don't you want to feel rested and like you are on fuego see how I use that Spanish word because duolingo that's right like isn't that how you want to feel yeah I think think it's like a willingness to adjust the question not how many pounds down do I want to be on a scale yes that was a benchmark that you put into an app but it's also like how free do you want to be in your mind you want to start that business maybe you want to put that dating app back on your phone you want to make some amends you want to be able to move a little east a little bit more easily in your body i don't know those sound great those sound great well where where the expectations come from that you came up with and can that be part of the

reflective work you know it's interesting you say that because you know someone's like well i just want to i have my you know i have a wedding coming up and I want to fit into whatever, but I bet you, let's say they're 60, that they maybe look, they looked exactly the way they wanted to look when they were 50, but that wasn't good enough for them. And when they were 50, you know, they look back on wanting to look how they looked when they were 40 and that wasn't good enough for them or look back on when they were 30 and that wasn't good enough for them. Or look back on when they were 30 and that wasn't good enough for them. Or maybe they had lost 60 pounds previously and that wasn't good enough for them. Right? Like that's, you're so right about that feeling that you're going for. Like, listen, I'm all about weight loss. I want people to lose all of the

weight that they want to lose, but you are never going to lose it. If you give up halfway there, you have to keep going. You have to keep working towards it. And there really is no timeline. I break down the 91 day programs because you're right. Somebody just needs one program. So I don't think they should have to sign up for a year long program, but somebody else might need a year long program. But the whole 91 days is about a start and an end and digestible bits, taking chunks of time to specifically focus on this thing and doing as many rounds as you need in order to be successful. Of course, the goal is to lose as much weight as possible, but you want to do it in a way

that is not just healthy for your body, but also healthy for your mind. And it's going to take the time it is going. I don't know about you. Nothing in my life has ever come on the timeline that I wanted. Like nothing. No. And where did we get those timelines from? Where do we get those? By the time I'm 30. I know I did that. And then I look back and I'd be like, Oh honey, that was so cute. Yeah. That you thought you were going to do that. That's really cute. So like I work with, I work with in the, in, in what I do, I, I also meet those kinds of expectations all the time. Well, I, I want to get an eight.

I want to go from like, um, I'm on probation or I'm, I'm getting D's and I want to, I want to get an A and I'm like, yes, a hundred percent. And that's more than possible. The marks, the grades a person get is a byproduct of the other pieces is sleep, more efficient studying, being present in class, reading attentively, having good friendships that are fun and uplifting. Like the weight that comes off for me, and this is your program, not mine. So if I'm not phrasing it right, you tell me, but it seems to my experience of your beautiful program is that it's a by-product. The weight comes off of all the other things that happen along the journey. Yes.

Yes. I used to, when I first designed it, I was like, it's a lifestyle program. This was like, you have to think so many years ago when people were not talking about lifestyle. And I'm like, it's a lifestyle program. You're going to learn how to be healthy. And weight loss is a side effect of that or byproduct of that. And people were like, but I just want to lose weight. I'm like, no, no, no, you're going to lose weight, but you're also going to get really healthy and you're going to get in tune. They're like, no, I just want to lose weight. And then I gave up. And I was like, nobody wants to do my lifestyle program. Let me call it a weight loss program. And now all I have, I have a waiting list of people. They're like, oh, I can lose weight.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's it. You can lose weight. Okay, good. Everyone entrepreneurial tip. So I got us like sustainable learning, healthy learning, holistic, A plus program for everybody. I mean, it's what's going to happen. That's it. People are like, but I just want to lose weight. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I know. And I was like, it's actually inevitable. Like that's the beauty of what you it's inevitable. Yeah. But, but the, but there are some really important pieces not to be missed that make that happen that lead to that. Yeah. I love this commerce. I love this conversation. Okay.

I love you Gina. Oh my gosh. Doesn't everybody love Gina? She's so sick and you're like, you wouldn't even be able to tell. You're so great. Oh my God. god let's let's have cocktails tonight so fun yes wait till i feel better i don't want to give you this nasty it's nasty whatever i got going on um i'm sitting here like trying not to cough you know when you get that thing in your throat and um but i was like what's your face i'm like i'm just gonna talk a little more. I'm just going to, I'm going to talk a little. I have to go in a coffee. I'm like, don't go, don't go. Um, I, I'm so happy I showed up for this conversation. It's such, you just really encompassed everything that keeps me up at night.

Right? Like I know what people are going through and I know how hard this is on so many levels, but it is so doable. And if you're watching or listening right now, you can do this. You are doing this. That's what gets me so excited about this conversation in week seven, the what to eat when the hard part, really you've put behind you the bulk of the learning you've put behind you in so many ways, like you've done so much. And if you just stop there and keep doing that, yeah, eventually you will reach your goal. But at some point you will have to do the work and you might as well do the work now in the timeframe that you

signed up to do the work in. So I don't know, I'm all about this. I love learning and growing and working through. And when I'm like, what's going on with me? Why do I feel this way? And having those aha moments, I think we are meant to grow and evolve. And I'm, you know, if you are envisioning the life that you want to have, you already have it. You just have to keep moving forward and do the things we need to do to, to grab onto it. What are you here to learn? So if, cause I'm listening to Gina and there are going to be people who are like, well, I've been chipping away and doing the thing and like incrementally up, down, down, up, down, down. Great, great, great. So you're learning something around consistency. You're learning something about showing up every day. You're learning

something about there's something really going right for you about the attitude that you're bringing. You're learning something about your body's responsiveness to what and how you're eating. If you, after week four, were like, ah, I don't know, or life, something happened in your life or this, that, and the other, any number of reasons that disrupted. Well, what are you here? What's that learning for? What's that learning for? If you've come back and you're judging yourself, what's, what's in that? If it was hard to follow because you were disappointed, what's there? If you got angry right out of the get, what, what's the learning that's here for you if you've brought negative energy into the community what's here for you like there's

really good learning if we just if we like open to see it and it's going to be the beauty is it's going to be different for every one of us. Boy, here's this really dark, scary thing. I think now's the time to face it. Oh, look, I'm like going through profound grief and loss. I can also take care of myself while I am deeply in the throes of sorrow and caretaking. What are you here to learn? What are you here to learn? What are you here to learn? And that's part of what the messy middle is trying to show you. What are you here to learn?

Dr. Dina Karaschafer, author of Feel Good Learning. This is available on Amazon. I highly suggest you pick this up. Thank you so much, honestly, for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. I know you truly care about our members. You want them to be successful. You know you will be back because we have another few weeks left of the program

and we have a lot more to talk about. Quickly before we go, I know people always ask where to reach out. I know they can find you on Instagram at Awakened Learning website and anything you have coming up that people might be interested in. Do you see how Gina supports everyone? Thank you. There are lots of things that are coming.

My audio book will be coming. Book number two is coming out in September called Raising Lovers. I'm excited. But in this moment, that is June, I am here and my team is here. If your students are facing final exams and capstones or are like gearing up for summer school, we are really here. We are really here to help if the learning piece across the ages and stages is not going so smoothly. We get so many beautiful people writing in like, what if my kid has ADHD? What if my kid has a learning disability? What if my kid just failed the semester? What if they're trying to get into the master's program? What if they're in grade seven and be like, yep, that's exactly who we support. Exactly. If it's not going very well

for any number of reasons, we're just, we're, we're trying to make less suffering and learning. Oh, I love that. Sorry, you're the A-plus program. Oh my God. That's why. It's inevitable. It's inevitable. Like if you do, if you're rested and you go to class and you learn how to study and you

have an A-plus. Oh my God. See, this should have taken a long time. Dr. Dina Cara-Shafer, creator of the A-plus program and author of the book, Feel Good Learning. Thanks, everyone. Thanks for everyone who joined us live. I've been looking at all your comments and questions. Thank you so much, everyone.

And of course, if you have downloaded and listened to our podcast, more to come. Until then, thank you so much. You're the best.