The Livy Method Podcast - Obesity Care with Dr. Sean Wharton - Fall 2025

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

In this powerful episode, Gina Livy is joined by Dr. Sean Wharton to unpack what compassionate, evidence-based obesity care really looks like. Together, they explore the complex intersection of bias and biology, challenge traditional weight labels, and discuss why kindness, curiosity, and personalized treatment matter more than ever. From doctor-patient relationships to the role of medication and structure, this conversation offers a deeply human lens on health and healing. Whether you're navigating your own journey or supporting someone else's, this is a must-listen for anyone ready to change the conversation around weight and wellness.Dr. Wharton has a doctorate in Pharmacy and Medicine from the University of Toronto. He is the medical director of the Wharton Medical Clinic, a community-based internal medicine weight management and diabetes clinic. He is an adjunct professor at McMaster University and York University, and is academic staff at Women's College Hospital and clinical staff at Hamilton Health Sciences.To learn more about the Wharton Medical Clinic, visit whartonmedicalclinic.comor find Dr. Sean on Instagram: @drseanwhartonYou can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodfall2025To learn more about The Livy Method, visit livymethod.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livy, and welcome to the Livy Method podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams for my 91-day weight loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews, and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the morning live? Want to re-listen to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place. This podcast is hosted on ACAST, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple, and Amazon Music.

We're focusing on sustainable habits, not quick-fixing. Is it an opportunity to get curious? We're here, help people get to their health goals. One piece each of time. You build and build and build. Today is an internal medicine specialist. He's also the director of the Wharton Medical Clinic. advocate for health equality in medicine. I mean, he's a world-war-known obesity expert. He literally

travels the world, but that doesn't even do him justice, honestly, because the work that he does is truly shaping the future of obesity treatment and inclusive care, not just in Canada, but truly worldwide. I am beyond honored to have Dr. Sean Wharton join us today. Hello. Hey, how's it going, Gina? Good to see you this morning. Let's pump everybody up. Let's get the energy going here. It's perfect. Right. I am, you know, I, I can't hide my excitement to everyone who's joining us this morning.

I just, I have such mad respect for Sean, not only his just incredibly brilliant, but just the best guy, honestly. And I'm truly, truly, truly honored that you take the time to share with us because you also, you also really care. And I know that sounds weird to point. out the obvious and as it should be, but you truly do. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a passion of mine for a long time. And, you know, I think that the advocacy, the connecting with it, you know, has to do with

coming from a marginalized group or marginalized community being a black man. It's, there's similarities, there's connections, there's understanding pain and hurt and understanding that that doesn't have to be the way, right? that there's there are options that we have, that society can work with us. There are people in society who can make things better. Pain doesn't have to be the outcome. We can do better. And that's where I'm always fighting for that cause.

I actually have a question that one of our members asked that I think is perfect. It's from Melissa Kim. She says, maybe this is a silly question. But what do you mean when you say obesity care? Does it mean getting equal access to health care for people who are perceived as obese and not having them just be told to lose weight no matter what their symptoms? I love that question. It's all of it.

So obesity care means recognizing that whoever you're talking to or whoever's talking to is bias because we're all biased against people living with obesity. we all watched TV. We all watch the Little Mermaid where Ariel's this big and Ursula's this big and she's the bad one and it goes on and on and on. So anytime that we're thinking about obesity care, we're thinking about our own biases, even those who are living with obesity, are internalized negative bias and how that can not turn into discrimination, how it can be made better. So it's not just about access to care for the medication. It's about getting rid of stigmatizing images. It's about it's about being recognizing and being open to when people talk to you about a different angle, being humble, being being kind.

So it's really all of it. It's a humanity aspect and the same way I would talk about any marginalized group, I talk about the people living with obesity in that same vein. So I wouldn't say it's special. I'll say it is, it's proper humanity. I want to talk to you about what obesity medicine is in a sec. But one of the things I was, I found really fascinating when I was, I've been at a couple obesity conferences now. And the conversation really about the patient and, you know, how to speak to the patient,

how to treat the patient beyond just sort of medical doctor and. someone coming in and needing help. And I know doctors are doing a lot of work here to be able to connect with their patient. But as a patient coming in, what is your advice to have the best connection with their doctor? Yeah. So I think that everyone who is going to be connecting with the doctor needs to recognize that that doctor lives in the same world as all of us do. So if you're thinking that you're going to walk into your doctor's office and they're going to be kind

and compassionate and understand obesity medicine, you're wrong because they don't understand a lot of things. They don't understand the challenges with the indigenous population. They don't understand. I mean, if they live in, if they're indigenous themselves, if they live, if they are from a marginalized community,

if they're from Middle East, they'll understand the Middle East challenges, but they may not understand other challenges. They're just human beings. So they're going to likely discriminate against you. And you may need to teach them. You may need to be slow. in terms of your ability to make them understand that we use the word obesity when we're talking

about people in general. I mean, a physician can't. I mean, people living in a city can do whatever they want. It's their choice. But the physician to try to show some compassion that needs to use some terminology that connects with the patient. If they don't, teach them. If they don't know about guidelines and then teach them.

if they don't know about the fact that they should be listening to what you want to actually do and echoing that back and then having a discussion about it, teach them. And many of them will be willing to hear. So not all, not all, many of them will be. Do you find this with people coming to you? Because I know in conversations that I've had with people, they have gone to their just their regular MDs over the years. And the answer always is just lose weight, just lose weight.

And they get to the point where they're nervous to go to the doctor and deal with their issues where they just, they stop going or they're hesitant if they're not going when they should because they think that's always going to be the answer. What do you mean by teach though? Can you give me an example? Yeah. So, I mean, I imagine at some point there'll be a seismic change where everybody has to be better and they're forced. they're forced into it in in some in some manner so we try to do that by calling it out in our guidelines a 2020 guidelines told doctors that they were being mean that was the main essence of the guidelines that you're being biased and you're likely discriminating against

your patients if you don't think you are take another look and analyze your office space analyze your messaging analyze how you speak to people in with obesity you probably are and and and yeah we're calling you out. So that is, that's a piece of national document that says we can be better. And so more documents and more advocacy needs to tell them that they can be better. So, and they're allowed to make this mistake. If I look at my presentations and documents from 15 years ago, they're embarrassing. I don't want you to see them. So, because they were biased. They were stigmatizing, they were discriminating. So I'm doing better, and I'll do better next year and the year after. So what do I mean by teaching the doctor how to be better in terms of your care?

So I would advocate for a black, West Indian person. I'm Black, I'm West Indian. Somebody walked into the doctor's office with a, you know, a Guyanese accent on, and they're talking about, you know, and they not think that this is what going to work. I think I need some Kalaloo. for my high blood pressure, you know, and the doctor is not understanding that, then you need to, that West Indian person needs to slow down and maybe say, listen, I'm from the West Indies and this is the way we treat it. Now, I'm happy to talk about other things as well, but this is the way we do it, and I need you to understand this type. And if that needs to be an advocate, it needs to be their child who's sitting next to them.

And we know that about immigrant populations. The child comes in to help to advocate and to translate. And with the indigenous population, we sometimes need a translator. Translating not their language. They speak English. It's translating their ways and their trauma and what they're really meaning to actually say. So that's what we kind of need. We need this translation to be able to help the person on the other side help.

It can't be just a continual clashing because it's just is not going to work. Eventually, we have to start speaking to each other. How, I would imagine some of sort of how we got here is that obesity medicine has changed. Or maybe the, maybe it's not obesity medicine has changed. although I'm sure there's a lot of changes in obesity medicine in the last 20, 30 years, but our perception of, you know, why someone can't lose weight. They're just not counting and weighing and measuring. They just don't have willpower.

They're just eating. They just are lazy and want to eat all the junk foods. How do you think that's changed over the years? Yeah. Well, I think that science needed to, the clinical medicine needed to catch up with the actual science. And so there's been. some clarity for a while that the biological nature and the genetic natures are things that drive elevated weight. And so I think if that's something that you believe and you understand,

that's a conversation you can have with the physician. If physicians, if you're living with obesity, you have food noise, you've tried multiple things, and you need intervention, you need actual help. When you speak to a physician, you can say that obesity is biological, which is what they speak. They speak biological language. They speak science. It's a genetic condition. There's environmental factors that end up leading to it, like trauma and multiple other things. But a big component of it is the genetic aspects. And medical intervention can be helpful. And that's why I'm here talking to you. You're talking to you about what potential medical interventions we can have for my obesity. And if we're not just talking about the obesity,

Let's talk about the complications. So I may not want you to deal with my obesity. I actually have that. I'll take care of that on my own. I've got a program. I know what I know what to do. But I need help with my osteoarthritis just because I'm a bigger body. You still need to do an x-ray of my knee because I have osteoarthritis and there can be interventions.

So advocate for appropriate treatment for somebody living with obesity for their medical conditions if they have them or for. regular medical examinations and if you want medical intervention advocate for that too by saying that we must understand that this is a biological medical science and that that's the direction I would I would like to go so we have people here you know some people need to lose 10 pounds some 200 in 10 pounds like what's the criteria for going to see someone like you or like what's What are the options available with people that they may not even know or be aware of? Because they're just constantly thinking they've got to lose weight first before they can deal with anything. When there's actually a lot of resources and people like you who can help.

Yeah. So obesity management specialists or obese management doctors, I shouldn't say specialist because it's not a specialization at the Royal College. It's an interest. You can develop some expertise in it. So the criteria. is based on BMI and co-morbidities. And so, and unfortunately, we use the BMI cutoffs that are established by the WHO, by Health Canada, that are for white European men.

BMI 27 to 30, Anseltees in 1972 determined that a BMI between 70 to 30, if you're a white European man, will put you at risk. So this is a group that they start, they are at risk between that BMI. they get coronary artery, disease, heart attacks, et cetera. BMI greater than 30, you don't even have to have a co-morbidity. You are in the obesity classification and you can get intervention. So at our clinics, our medical clinics, BMI between 27 to 30 with a comorbidity, such as pre-diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, even psychological manifestations,

would qualify you. Over 30, you don't need anything to qualify to get medical treatment. So under a BMI of 27, we still can treat a number of those patients, but that would be based on best clinical practice. So if you're South Asian and you have pre-diabetes, we know that the Asian BMI cutoff is actually lower. So you would be in the appropriate clinical zone to get treated if you're if you're south asian and you have pre-diabetes and your bmi is 26 or 25 you could be treated by by one of the obesity medicine doctors um uh in an appropriate fashion i know uh people listening they're going to ask about bMI because everyone's talking about how bmi doesn't matter anymore but i would imagine it's just it is a measure but there are other there are as you

explained other measures that you use here yeah so so bMI does does matter because BMI is, it's just a number. What is what has been used wrongly are the BMI cutoffs. Oh, okay. Okay, so when, if you're a woman and you use the male BMI cutoff or white European men, if you're a South Asian woman or Hispanic woman or black woman and use the white European men BMI cutoffs, that isn't yours. you do have a cutoff.

There is epidemiological data that shows that African-American or black women can go to a higher BMI before they run into medical conditions. So not a BMI of 27, not even a BMI of 30, it's possibly up to BMI of 32. White women are in a similar category. So white women and black women around the same. The Hispanic women may be even a higher BMI, BMI cutoff. And South Asians and Asians are lower BMI cutoff. the indigenous, a lower BMI cutoff.

So, and why is that such a big deal that the cutoffs are actually wrong for the majority of the, um, the world? Because it, um, uh, it's indifference. It is, it, it makes you feel as if you don't really matter. So if you're a black woman from southern United States and, uh, you got a BMI of 30 and you're being called somebody with obesity and you're like, I'm fine. have no medical problems you shouldn't be called somebody living with obesity you should you should be called beautiful that's the wrong definition for that woman um and wrong definition for women

period so we need to so the bMI isn't the problem it's a bMI cutoffs that were established by ansel keys in 1972 and up and have been upheld by wHO um and uh and health can and a number of other bodies that cause the actual problem. Can you be healthy and overweight at the same time? You can be healthy and and and live in a larger body. So I wouldn't call it overweight. Overweight to me establishes that there's some type of disease process going on. Some type of inflammation.

There's pre-diabetes. I would say you're living in a larger body and you're beautiful. If you're healthy and your blood sugar that was measured by your doctor, it's great. And your blood pressure is great. then there's no health issues if you yourself want to lose weight because you want to lose weight for your aesthetic reasons for whatever that's okay too that's totally cool you can you can do that but you're not in necessarily in in the zone of needing it to get your hemoglobin a1c down which is your blood sugar your blood sugar is 5.2 and that's beautiful it's beautiful so i i'm wouldn't

wouldn't be the best person to necessarily see because still in Canada, we don't have a healthcare system. We have a disease care system. So I'm paid by the medical system as a disease care doctor. So they've got to land with some kind of disease for me to be able to actually end up seeing you. But a larger body, you can be completely healthy. Easy peasy. Okay. So there's obesity as a disease, which is a big conversation right now. And then living in a larger body, just simplify the difference for me. Yeah. So overweight and obesity is if there's a medical condition connected to it.

Now, unfortunately, we've squished the two into the fact that obesity is defined by BMI greater than 30. I don't agree with that. I would say that obesity needs to have a medical condition connected to it. Your BMI is 32 or 35 and we've checked everything and everything's great. You don't have obesity. You're just whoever you are. if you have a medical condition that's connected to visceral adiposity to fat cells, I don't care what weight you are.

You are overweight or living with obesity. Either two of those is fine. But otherwise, you're just living in a larger body. Now, as we get up to higher and higher weights, there's fewer and fewer people that don't have any medical conditions. So that needs to be known. So there's very few people with BMIs of greater than 40 or 45 that don't have any medical conditions. So here's an interesting question because obviously at GLP1's weight loss medications,

maybe you can clarify exactly what we call them these days, but someone taking them to address obesity versus someone taking them to lose weight. Is there a difference there? I don't think so. There's not a difference to the actual drug. The drug doesn't care. The drug and the pharmacology and where it connects to the receptors, it doesn't care whether you have a disease or you're quote-unquote defined as living with obesity because you have a medical condition or whatever. Or you just want to lose it to get into a wedding dress or to feel better or to the drug doesn't care.

Who cares is society and who's paying for it? Right. Who's society and who's paying for it? So as far as I'm concerned, I, you know, these. medications are likely going to be in the aesthetic world, as well as the disease world. Doesn't matter to me. Botox is used for both. It's used for if you have a quote-unquote lazy eye or a trabismus paralyzes the muscle so that your eye can go back to the right focus.

And we use it for our foreheads. We use Botox for two things for medical conditions and for aesthetics. will we use these for two things, disease, diabetes, heart disease, heart failure, and for aesthetics? Probably. I don't have an issue with that. Hey, let me talk about this first sack. Wow. Why do you think people do have an issue with this? Because I think, you know, people like, for example, me, you know, I run. I want to ask you your thoughts about the living method because, you know, I know you have a lot to say and our members want to hear it. But, you know, people, people are angry that I support to people. people taking weight loss medications. And I think they're a game changer. I think it's complicated. I think it doesn't do the work for you in terms of the mental work and the lifestyle changes and the food choices. It's not the easy way out at all. But what, but people are like, I'm a sellout and but you know, I've had people, clients who've had, you know, gastric bypass and I've supported

them. Why do you think people are so angry at people taking these medications when they perceive that they don't need them because they are already thin or whatever. What are you going to say about that? I think it's fascinating. Yeah, I think it's bias. I think it's discrimination. I think it is we need to leave people alone. I don't know where we can get off thinking that we are the ones that have to be the gatekeepers or in charge.

If this was a chemotherapy medication, right, that caused a lot of toxicity, we would have the rains around it, the government would and you couldn't just go in the pharmacy and easily get it. It is a medication that causes some toxicity. So there is a gatekeeper. There's pharmacists and you have to get it in the appropriate way. So there are toxicity is connected with it. So but if it's done properly, then who's to say it can't be used in different populations? So we need to sometimes, I mean, the community needs to mind their own business. Yeah. To mind their own business.

So how do they know that person doesn't have significant food noise, doesn't have a family member that is living with obesity where they are seeing that the trajectory is actually happening and they're moving up and up and up and they just want some, they just want some quiet, they just want some time to be able to get themselves back and track, to be able to get focused, to be able to start doing that healthy eating that they always wanted to actually do? even a kickstart, a motivation, a helping hand, who doesn't need a helping hand to walk across street every once in a while like my little son today that I just walked to school.

Sometimes a helping hand is a nice thing and it can help to change a person's life. Where are we going around denying that if there is there no medical issues connected to it? And somebody's monitoring it and following it properly. Okay. I mean, I think a lot of maybe, you know, and I'm speaking for everybody, it's just, but the pressure to be thin and just like the diet industry and the detriment to the diet industry, I think they're kind of like getting mixed up with obesity medicine, maybe, right? They're, they're kind of two totally different things, would you say? Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think that they're different and they're complementary. So I just I just don't see it as being. such a major concern so the idea is is that the medications help people to do the dietary intervention to some degree i think that that certain programs and and certain good appropriate diets can get bigger and better and be used more so people could do more protein-rich diets could do more intermittent fasting, could do more healthy choice interventions that could be run by programs

all over the world. It would help to clear their brain so that they could hear and listen and enjoy the program, pay for the program, and do a good job. I just want to, before I ask you about the living method, I just want to be clear because, you know, people may not know this because, you know, obesity medicine, they think gLP ones weight loss medication all of that that's like the only thing available to people and that there's actually it's obesity and internal medicine is that you that you are an expert in specialist in it's so much more than just just drugs it's just so much more than

than these new medications you've been doing this for a long time yeah yeah yeah so um i mean it's it's the entire field now some of us specialize in one part of the entire field and do that better because there's a lot to it. So like a cardiac surgeon. So the cardiac surgeon better know the surgery part really, really well. They know some of the cardiology stuff really well too, but they can't know everything. So they just kind of got to hone in on this one area and do really good job.

So I've honed in on a specific area. I know all the other areas because we didn't have GLP ones in 2005 when I started. So what were we doing? We were doing all the lifestyle interventions, all that. So I was there. I was working at it, doing everything. So we still have that. It's not the major tenant of the program because I'm an internist. So I specialize in this area really well. So if someone is running into difficulty with understanding the pharmacological intervention, how the medication works, what are the side effect profile? This person ran into a problem. This person got pancreatitis.

This person in the hospital doing this. And they have, they have these comorbidies at a liver transplant and they need the pharmacic that's me. I have specialized in that area to understand all of those aspects that are not just fluffy things on a article for

in time magazine or something like that but I've got all the inside intense information of this area I don't know everything about the insulin in the dietary insulin theories.

I've lost some of that. You know, I used to know some. But I know a lot of people who know it really well. And I said my patients to them. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like I'm the fluffy. I stay in my lane.

I'm more like the showing up and trying to make the changes and how to piece it all together kind of person. What are your thoughts on the living method? Yeah. I absolutely love it. I have, you know, clients, patients, patients, I'm a physician. We don't call them clients, call them patients, and who do the living method and do the weight management medications or go back and forth, you know, off and on the medications, but do the living method on an ongoing basis over and over again, the support, the connection, the reality, the realness of it, the being able to see, people who have been successful in helping them to move forward.

I mean, anyone who is doing business management, tell me that they don't listen to podcasts and read books about success. Right. So listen to success, understand success, and feel it and feel the energy. It doesn't mean that that's the exact path you will take, but you get to know more and more and more. So, and you just keep on learning. Right? You just keep on doing it. You don't stop listening to reading those books and listening to those podcasts and understanding it even as you're growing and growing.

And so I think that the return business is needed because the world is moving fast and your body's changing. Your age is changing. Your mind is changing. Keep on going back to the to the well to get reinforced. Well, you know, I'm going to read a comment here from a member. And I want to ask you what's new in obesity medicine. Kelly here says, I have a question for Dr. Sean. I was diagnosed with type of diabetes, and I know you can't prescribe, but I was diagnosed with type two diabetes a year ago through diet and exercise. My HBA 1C has gone from 7.1, 6.2, and I have lost 23 pounds on the living method. Now, despite walking 7K, 3 to 4 times a week, I'm stuck.

This is my second program. I also take one metformin a day. My question is, should I be started in Mongero to help with my insulin resistance? I'm feeling discouraged. Well, congratulations, first of all. That's awesome. You're killing it. And it's not that I can't prescribe them.

I can't give advice on her medical because she's obviously has a family dog. She has a lot of other history connected to it, et cetera. But I can give some opinions on uncertain things. So I would say that doesn't sound extremely stuck. That sounds like you're a rock star. That's what that sounds like. So I'm not exactly sure about that, about the stuck part. So, I mean, if it starts, if it's with all of those things, you're going back up, the A1C is, it goes up to 6.5 and 7.

I mean, you can imagine it probably, it probably would have been even, even higher, right? It would have been like 9 or 10. So do you need, do you need more to get it down? If you're doing all of the things perfectly, then you may need beyond the metformin and you may need another, another medication to end up pushing it down. And why would you need another medication when you're doing so great? You're doing everything that Gina tells you to do and you're doing awesome. I don't know. Why?

Because of genetics? Because that was your specific lot in life, like someone else could have done the exact same thing. and their exact same geno living method and their A1C wouldn't have budged. Another person could have done it. Their A1C wouldn't have gone down to 5.2 and they're rocking it. They're not sending a text about the problem

because their A1C is 5.2 and they're killing it. And they all three people did the exact same thing. One person that went from 7.5 to 7.4. The other person went down to 7.4. 6.2. And the other person went down to 5.2. And they're all great people. They're all smart, right, capable, loving. They are loved by people. They are all following the method perfectly. And they have different genetics, different lot in life from their genes, the biology that God,

whoever she is, gave them. And that's the way it goes. And so, if that means that that person with an A1C of 7.4 needs to go on a medication to not have type two diabetes and not, you know, be at risk of the bad stuff, you know, eye problems, amputations, et cetera. They should not be considered a failure. Right. They should be considered sensational. Yeah. Yeah. And smart, incapable because they believe in their grandchildren. They believe that their grandchildren are not. looking for a grandmother with a medical with that complication. So they're like, oh, yeah, I'm doing all the right things. And they also know that their A1C wouldn't have been 7.4. It would have been

8.4 if they hadn't done what they were doing. Things were going up and up and up. So never consider yourself, feel like consider yourself bright and capable for asking questions, for looking for intervention, for trying to understand your own biology. Yeah, I love that. And in 20, three pounds in three months in and dropping your A1C is fantastic that's only three months like that's there's nothing short of fantastic what's new in obesity medicine like what what what's new in it what's exciting what's coming down the pipeline yeah a lot of things a lot of things have come down the pipeline so one there was a tripling of the semi-glutide dose in a trial called the step up trial literally stepped up from 2.4 milligrams up to 7.2 milligrams, giving a little more weight

change and a little more comorbidity intervention. Bring that A1C down further. And those are for people who on the medication are stuck and but want that same medication and want to move up. So that was a big trial that ended up coming out. And it didn't show that much more side effect profile. Showed a little bit more because medication has side effect. there's a risk-benefit ratio here. Any medication that you're starting, there's a risk-benefit ratio. You're going to get some side effects.

And if the question is, is it worth it to you? If it's not worth it, don't take it. Don't even start it. If it is worth it, then go ahead. And so no one's telling you to necessarily do this. This is your choice. You've made the decision. You understand the risk-benefit.

Just like, you know, I drive my car to Hamilton every once in a while, and it's a risk benefit. I analyze it in my head. Sometimes I don't drive. It's a risk is too high. Let's see. And then the next thing is that what we know is that subcutaneous or the injectable medications have exposed the disparity within our system. the disparity for people who are on the lower socioeconomic bracket, social determinants of health.

So if you're black and you're female and in the southern United States, you're in the third world, you're not getting these medications. If you're indigenous, you're not getting these medications that are helping to save lives and decrease heart attacks. You know, the option to take it. It's an option. You don't have to, no one has to take it, right? We're not talking about that. Is it available to people?

And so what we now are seeing, is that if we can use orals, so two big oral medication trials came out and showing that these have a very good impact and similar impact to what we are getting with the injectables. And that will likely be 2026 will be the world of once daily medications that act similar to the weekly injections and could be, could be priced at a range. where they could reach the greater society, the Polynesian Islands, people with the highest obesity

rates and disease, they need these medications, right? The Polynesian Islands are not getting the living method, all that, all that easily. They should be, but they, possibly could they get a pharmacological intervention to help that entire region? If it was cheap and available, yes. Yeah, great. clinical trials. Let's talk about that for a second. I know Sean and I were talking behind the scenes and you know, you want to talk about clinical trials that are available or would you say accessible to people? Yeah. Oftentimes we get people in the clinic who are looking to start a medication. They've made the decision. I'm working hard. I'm doing all these things. I want I want a medication. I want to try it out. You want to see how it worked. And they don't have coverage. They have no insurance coverage and it's expensive. super expensive, like $250 to $500 to $1,000. They're like, I don't have that money to do it. Well, you could be enrolled in a clinical trial.

So we do clinical trials with these new medications, i.e., that step-up trial, where we stepped up the medication to a higher dose. So almost everybody in the trial was on a medication. So people were able to get for a year plus an intervention. So to be a Canadian standing up on stage, in Vienna, in the States, in Dubai, and all these other big places, giving conferences, and is because we have participated in the global trials. We're on the global stage.

So we have a clinical trials division in Hamilton where patients living with obesity can access clinical trials. And people live with obesity and type 2 diabetes and osteoarthritis and obstructive sleep apnea. Can we improve obstructive sleep apnea? They get excellent care, right, care that they wouldn't not normally get. And, you know, my colleague has a clinical trial division in Calgary. So, and, and we're always looking for, to ensure that patients are treated. We, we can the patients a lot of times come from all over the place. So it's just good to know that Canada is on the world stage. Well, and you are usually the one on the stage. You're reping Canada. I think the bigger picture, Sean, is that there are people

like you who care. That is it. I think our perception is doctors don't care. People don't care. There's this stigma. They just tell us to lose weight. That's how it is when there are a lot of people like yourself who actually care. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I'm I mean, I've run this clinic. It's the Warden Medical Clinic is a O-Hip-funded clinic, right? We don't barely, we don't have a method of taking money. Like we last year, it was about two years ago, we introduced that little square thing that you can tap the thing.

Because of all the forms that started to come out to fill out this form, fill out this form to get the medication. So we had to charge $35 to fill out one of, fill out the form. because it takes forever. It's not $35. It's way more than that. But we just had to charge something. And that's so we have to get some kind of payment system to be able to handle that, which is no money. We just do this all through government funding. And that means that we're on the margin always, right? I mean, the government gives you like a buck to do everything. They give us almost nothing. So, but I maintain that I will keep this as much as I possibly can,

a government funded clinic because I want access to care. I want the indigenous. population. I want the immigrant population. I want it to be virtual care as well so we could access them. I didn't want it to be there to be a barrier in regards to as a physician to be able to. Now, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're not a physician, that there needs to be a cost. But so I'm not against cost. I was, I'm more so as a physician, can people access care through the O'KIP system. And we have two programs that the ministry funded. And we're very proud to continue to have those programs funded.

And I'm really pleased about that. Yeah. Yeah. And not to say that people can't open up a privatized clinic and not care, but Dr. Sean Wharton cares on a whole other level. I mean, literally, he's traveling the world, sharing his knowledge. constantly trying to learn more and just really great when it comes to just one-on-one personal care that you give to your patients.

I appreciate you. And I know there's many of our members who are actually watching live who work with you before, who are staying the same. Before you go, you know, people are showing up here. They're trying to lose weight in a healthy way. They're physically, mentally. They're doing all the things. What's your words of wisdom?

What can you share with us to, to, to, to, I don't know, to help us keep going around here. Yeah, to get the positivity and to help. So I think that every time that you log on, every time that you are understanding the intervention and even doing it, sometimes everything isn't perfect for you. It's a bad week. It's been a bad month, about six months.

Come back, come back. Keep enjoying the living method component. living method videos, keep focused. You can get back there. And you matter. You know, like we care. There's somebody out there, her name is Gina Livy, that cares. That cares. So you can come back to this whenever. This is the prodigal son type of thing. Like, even if you disappear for a bit, Gina's taken you back. And that's what you need to know. You need to know. Don't get it down on yourself, and you will, because everybody does all the time. We all do. But we're here for you to get back up with no judgment. And that's not easy to say because a lot of people

think, oh, there's going to be judgment. I'm not even going to go back to my doctor because it's going to be judgment. Here that the tenant of the program is no judgment and show up. And we are here for you. Thank you so much. You can reach out to Dr. Sean Wharton. Follow him on Instagram, Dr. Sean Wharton. His clinic information is Wharton Medical Clinic.com. Thanks, everyone, joining us live

for watching after the fact. We appreciate you and especially you, Dr. Sean Wharton. Thank you for your time today. Thank you, Gina.