The Livy Method Podcast - Setting Yourself Up for Success with Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer - Spring 2025

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

In this Guest Expert episode, Gina and Learning Expert Dr. Deena Kara Shaffer get real about what it truly takes to see lasting change, starting with one simple mindset shift: Get curious and trust the process. Dr. Deena shares why learning (and unlearning!) is the key to making your weight loss journey the last one you’ll ever need. Together, they walk listeners through how to frame their journey in a way that feels inspiring instead of overwhelming, how to ditch all-or-nothing thinking, and why motivation is nice but not required. It’s about showing up, stacking small wins, and focusing on all the ways progress shows up beyond the scale. With a refreshing take on building habits that stick and a reminder to practice grace on the hard days, this episode is packed with the real-talk encouragement the Livy Community loves.You can find the full video hosted at:www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspring2025Where to find Dr. DeenaInstagram: @awakenedlearningWebsite: www.awakenedlearning.caTo learn more about The Livy Method, visit www.ginalivy.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm Gina Livi and welcome to the Livi Method Podcast. This is where you'll have access to all of the live streams from my 91 Day Weight Loss program. With a combination of daily lives, guest expert interviews, and member stories, there is something new almost every day. Miss the Morning Live? Want to relisten to one of our amazing guest experts? Well, this is the place.

This podcast is hosted on Acast, but it's available on all podcast platforms, including the one you're listening to right now, Spotify, Apple, and Amazon music. This is an opportunity to become curious. To learn some things. How do we help you feel less overwhelmed so you can continue on your journey? Keep believing in yourself and keep trusting the process. Just be patient.

Losing your weight in a way you're gonna be able to maintain and sustain, no easy feat. Life does not make it easy for us, but here to help us make it as easy as possible. Dr. Dina Kara Schaefer, learning strategist, the author of Feel Good Learning and Raising Well Learners is with us today. Hello. Hi. Good morning. Hi. I'm the very happiest to be here and hi to all my pals who are like, Oh my gosh, you're in Gina. Oh my gosh. I'm doing Gina. So hi to you, Gina. Hi to the pals who like connected in the channels and hi to all of the new and returning community members.

I know we have the best community and it's awesome to learn in this environment. And you know, whenever I introduce you as a learning strategist, I'm sure people are like, what I'm just trying to lose weight here. But my goodness, not only have we learned that it's what you are learning while you are losing the skills and the tools that you are acquiring,

the change that, the real change that you're making really makes all the difference when it comes to being able to maintain and sustain your weight. I'm already assuming our members have been successful in reaching their goals. I want them to do it in a way that they're gonna be able to maintain and sustain your weight. I'm already assuming our members have been successful in reaching their goals. I want them to do it in a way that they're gonna be able to maintain and sustain.

But it's not easy. It's not easy for a variety of reasons. Life has a way of getting in the way. We really are unlearning, especially when it comes to our old diet mentality, our old habits. We really are relearning how to, you know, create these new habits for ourselves. And we are learning new things. And not an easy thing to do. Not an easy thing to do. No. And I'm so grateful for you inviting

me back and back again. Because indeed indeed what is a learning strategist? What on earth are those bizarre kind of boring words? I get it, like I'm not offended by that. It is boring, but it's transformative work. We're all trying to learn stuff. You might be a student in school formally. You might have students and you're watching them as they thrive and languish and flail,

but we're also as parents and professionals trying to learn new habits, trying to learn about ourselves, trying to learn what feels good, trying to learn what life work balance can feel like. So there is a lot that we are hungry feel like. So there is a lot that we are hungry to learn a new or discover again. And so thank you for having me back again and again, because it is at the heart of what we're trying to do. We're trying to we're trying to do a really interesting life project masterclass life journey here. It's really helpful to talk about the learning and

unlearning aspects. We got a lot to cover today. We want to talk about how to navigate the information and make the best use of it. We want to also talk about building that foundation for sustainable change because that's really what it's all about. And then how do we commit to the process regardless of where we are now, how we're feeling and some of the things that might come our way as we work our way through the program? I always suggest to people before they start

that they try to frame it in a way that resonates. Like, is this a course that you're taking where you show up every day, there's stuff to read, review, there's homework, or is it more like a journey? You're on a journey of self-discovery, you're just taking it day by day and see what comes your way, or is it like an adventure? You don't know what the fuck is going to happen, but you're here for it anyway. And just kind of adapt as we go. Anything you want to add to that and how to make this

process more resonating beyond just, I've done all the diets and I just want to, you know, I hope, I hope this works for me. Is there a way to make it more resonating so we're more invested? Yeah, I love that question. Language matters. It really matters. And so what is the theme or the motif or the symbol that is a helpful anchor or helpful vision that kind of encourages us and nudges us along? So there are many things that makes what you do very unique. And one of them is how you invite people in to make it their own.

So it isn't that you're doing a protocol, like there's some really heavy language out there. It's not an impositional prescription. So you're inviting people to go, what would actually feel the most encouraging as you embark on these 91 days? Does it feel like a kind of curious meandering, I'm dipping a toe in? Does it feel like the most healthful, medicinal kind of marathon, a healthful marathon that you're about to do? Is it around discovery and journeying? Is it an adventure?

And so I love the way that right from the get-go you're saying, actually what would make this meaningful to you? And that's a key part of learning. Like that's an essential learning strategy. If it's just some abstract thing that I've got to clock in, punch in, punch out every day, no thanks. What is going to be the languaging and framing that makes you feel honored, that makes you feel motivated? Because I think with people and their history of dieting, it's all external count, weigh, measure, starve, deprive, eat less, exercise more. And I always say the living method is so much more than that.

Yes, absolutely what you're eating matters. Yes, it's important to move your body. Yes, you got to manage your stress and try to get better sleep, but really what's happening in our mind and how that's affecting our ability to not just the choices that we're making, but show up every day. Yeah. So when I think about, and I have a very painful history with dieting like so many people who are showing up here all the things that I was told, promised, deceived, duped, manipulated and you will never hear

anything that resembles anything like fat shaming here or body shaming here anything around toxic body image which I feel one of the reasons that I can participate. When I think about all those other things, plans and protocols, they feel like programs of disconnection. And this feels like a pathway of reconnection, of actually understanding and heeding the body's feedback. Oh, it turns out I'm really thirsty. Like I didn't even notice that I was so thirsty during the day. Oh, it turns out I'm really thirsty. Like I didn't even notice that I was so thirsty during the day. Or it turns out like, oh, my eating or my cravings or my hunger is off balance the day after a poor or insufficient night's sleep.

Well, look at what my tools are when life gets really stressful, is overeating one of them. I mean, that was my husband, my go-to. And so it is a place where you will learn about yourself, guided, cared for, scaffold along the way. And I mean, what could be more exciting than that? Well, that's, that's, you know, I'm just reading some of the comments, people talking, I was like working a long shift last night, someone else taking care of their mom, you know, it doesn't make it easy for us to find the time for ourselves to

focus on ourselves and do the things that we need to do. So one of the things that we like to do in the program is provide resources for people we have our incredible Facebook support group, there are real people there to answer questions, it's where you can connect with our community. We have our app, which is really great, easy access, guide you through the program, also has a really cool AI feature, ask a question, get a response within seconds. We have our book, our program guide for people who like to highlight and make notes. That's how I just personally learn best. People started originally printing off all the posts and

that could be very expensive. So we figured out a way to get it in the hands of people easily who prefer to do that. We also have our Libby Method journal. We suggest people journal whether it's an our journal another journal there's also the Libby Method podcast and so that's a lot of resources for people. There's also the lives right now of course I suggest if for people. There's also the lives, right? Now, of course, I suggest if you're gonna watch any of the lives, make sure it's our guest segments, because honestly, but people feel like, oh my goodness,

if I can't do it all, I'm just gonna fail. And it's not designed for you to do it all. It's designed for you to figure out how you learn best, how you can fit this into your life. Can you talk about sort of that all or nothing attitude that a lot of people tend to have understandably when it comes to diets? Yes, I can.

Thank you for asking. Yes, I can. So I think it's really important as a starting place that anyone who's listening knows that the guests aren't paid. Guests aren't given like a come to the program for free, there isn't affiliate anything, like this is clean and clear and with integrity.

So when I come, it's because I'm genuinely like jazzed and interested in what you're doing, Gina, how you're doing it, and I love this community. So, there's so much to say about this. When I see a program that's like, well, you could do it this way, or you could do it this way, or you could do it this way, or you could do it this way, or you could make your own braid and weave of the various resources, I'm all in. Why? Because I fundamentally am committed to and guided by radical

accessibility and inclusion. And that's what I see. So when we talk about, you know, all or nothing, the step before for me is, why are there so many different entry points? Why would it, why would Gina, why would you and your team for years create such an abundance and like clear avenues, but several of them, right? There's quite a few avenues to get to the information

and get to the support. And for me, it is not because you want everyone to do everything. It's because you honor that there are people who are caregiving, who are working shifts, who are recovering from illness, injury, who are living with disability or multiple, who identify as neurodivergent, who are living with disability or multiple, who are, who identify as neurodivergent, who have ADHD. There are untold number of combinations of identities and life experiences. And you're saying, Hey, I just actually want to make it easy for you. Whatever your life context and circumstances. I'm in, I'm in, I love that kind of thing. So I'll tell you that in my journey with you, for two years I worked and

I had quite a bit of a commute to that job. And so I couldn't catch your live, but I listened to the podcast. Like it was such perfect timing that exactly worked out. And in COVID, at the end of COVID, I would be able to catch your live. And then at other times I'm like, I'll give the app a try. I was interested to see like how much water am I drinking? You encouraged me by way of listening to journal. Like I know journaling is important.

That's been a hard bridge for me. I got to try a bunch of different things over time. I got to understand what is most resonant and useful for me in order to keep me motivated, engaged, and showing up every day. And so I like a program. In fact, I would only want people to invest in a program, invest their time, invest their attention in a program

that gives all brains and all hearts and all spirits a way of finding their way. So I love that so much. And if we begin to go, whoa, whoa, all or nothing, we can then recognize it was never designed that way. That is really the point. And actually, what is the simplest personal recipe? Is it one of those? Is it two of those? And it makes a difference if you're a new member or a returning one.

You know, if you're a new member, like go with what seems simple. Go with what the easiest choice that you can imagine integrating into your life. And then you can add, you can layer, but know yourself, go slowly. If you're a returning member and you're like, I did that last time and I'm so curious about this other avenue, like I don't know if I'm going to be consistent with the app. Am I going to try that? Or,

you know, maybe it's time to update my physical copy of the book or I've really written off this whole journaling thing. I roll my eyes every time it's time this time. So we can watch where our mind goes. We can watch how quickly we try to make it. Okay, wait a minute. If it's all these things, I'm out. You know, how you started make it simple, make it streamlined and simple. That's how we're going to get ourselves to show up the next day.

Okay. So say someone gets the resources down. Okay, I'm deciding to use the app, it links into the Facebook support group, or I'm going to get the book because I just enjoy reading or I'm going to be traveling. So, you know, maybe I won't be able to watch the lives live, but I'll be able to download and listen to them on my drive home, maybe. So once someone gets that down pat, then it's a matter of showing up, especially when you're not motivated. And it's really exciting everyone's so motivated in the first few weeks of the program. But then, then there's like, you know, people like, oh, I'm getting bored. I'm not motivated. I always use the example, and maybe it's fair or not, where my kids,

if my kids went to school based on their motivation, they would never go. If I just said, my kids like, I'm not motivated today, mom. My teacher's not motivating me. I would like, get your fucking ass to school and let's go already. And people are gonna have to show up

even when they're not motivated. And their motivation to me is their why. You have to have a really really strong Why you have to understand why you are here and why you're gonna show up every day when you're not motivated Can you talk a little bit about? About the struggle to be motivated to keep doing all the things that people will need to do each day. I Can and I can talk about all the things you just asked. I'm desperate to it was too good It was too juicy of a question.

So I'll give you an example. The thing with learning strategies that is one of my favorite, favorite parts is that it makes clear what we mean by sometimes generic words. So when we say to a learner, study or review, we could like think we're not, we're talking about, do you know what most students do when they study?

This is like crushing me. They'll go home and they'll rewrite all their notes and they're beautiful and organized and they're pretty and they look gorgeous. And actually in doing that, zero studying has happened, zero. It does not lead to remembering anything when we come to the test. So when we say things here, like showing up,

what does it mean to show up? So I love that you have just given me an opportunity. Showing up, what do we do when we show up? Does it actually mean attending? Does it mean live? Does it mean a certain number of minutes? Do I have to do it every day? We have to get crystal clear with what we mean.

So showing up, well, maybe it might mean for somebody, 15 minutes every day, maybe what showing up means is I am going to do a food plan so that I am not ravenously hungry in the day and then reaching for anything. Showing up means I am getting a water bottle that is gonna hold enough water for me to get through my morning shift. So I want to make showing up,

like we need to open that, like air it out. What are your strategies for showing up? Is it literally booking in time in your Google calendar or the structured app or to do it like there are a bunch of time management apps. So let's define, you define, each person here and the way that you get to language what this program is, the motif, the journey, the discovery, the journey, I need you to define for yourself what showing up means. Because then you'll know if you're doing it or not.

Well, I keep saying, oh my goodness, you know I've had so many conversations, I just learned that we over always learning something new because I keep saying as long as you keep showing up you can't mess it up What does that even mean? Well, I didn't want to say I Love it it's beautiful. But now you've given people a how I love that you motivate by way of the why You're like, what is your why? What is your purpose? Keep connecting to the significance.

Like what is the significance? So we talk about why, why means something. So we can even break down the word why. Why has to do with purpose. What is your purpose in doing this? What does it do with significance? What is the significance to your life? So when you imagine the consequence or like 91 days from now or a year from now when I've

done a few rounds of this and coherence, how does it fit into your life? So purpose means something. We can break it down into its pieces so we can understand it. And so for me, when you are talking about motivation, and as a side note, by the way, this is like, because you mentioned the word boredom, and as a teacher, you can imagine, and parent, I have heard this word once or twice in my life, maybe even this morning,

that boredom is a transient feeling. We don't have to be scared of being bored. Bored isn't going to swallow us whole. It's not going to take us down at the knees. Yeah, not going to threaten our lives. It can be very hard. It can be harder for some than others to cope and sit with. But I think that's why we're all here is whatever the big feeling is for you. And some it's going to be boredom. Others it might be grief. Others it might be anger. Like we have,

we all have a lot of big feelings. Um, we don't have to be scared of them. We definitely don't have to be scared of boredom. But then to end the piece, cause you asked about motivation. So, you know, motivation is fueled by doing the thing. And so sometimes I'll have my clients, you know, if you had a calendar and you had an X, like how many X's can you connect in a row? Is that motivating for you? Don't break the, I checked in with the GINA program in some way.

I drank four liters of whatever number of water each day. I'm going to I'm going to make a little X that continues, you know, like you're counting down the sleeps. Can you connect all the sleeps of 91 days or I'm going to write one comment or one question every day and I'm going to keep that alive. So motivation alive. So motivation is helpful, but it's not necessary. It's not necessary. We could be here and show up, drink the water, watch the light, whether we want to or not. Right? We don't train only when it's nice weather. If you're an athlete, you're not like, well, it's like a little bit foggy and rainy today. I don't, I don't really feel like it. We don't have to ask ourselves if we feel like it because we have a larger drive, that purpose thing. We have a larger drive of why we're here. There's something that we're after. You know, I don't like dwelling on overwhelm because

the Living Method essentially is pretty easy to follow. Just read the over the guidelines, do what you need to do, but even just saying that out loud. But it's kind of like the overwhelm of someone's journey, the overwhelm of having spent 20, 10, 5, to, you know, even a year trying to lose weight. Every now and then we get people who this is their first diet they've ever done. I love that. I love that. We get a lot of people who sign up, they're just trying to lose weight. Every now and then we get people who this is their first diet they've ever done. I love that. I love that. We get a lot of people who sign up, they're just trying to eat healthier. Love that as well. But a lot of people are bringing the overwhelm of their past. It's

kind of like I'm thinking of, you know, we've been really busy dealing with a lot at home here. And so the other day I'm standing in my kitchen with my husband and two of my kids and we're like, what happened to us? Like our house is a mess. And my son was like, yeah, we haven't done like a big clean in, you know, like a couple of months. And we're like, okay, that's it this Saturday. None of us wanted to do it on a Saturday, but we did it. And then the more that we did, the more we wanted to do.

And then we've been doing it all week. It's sort of like like you have this heavy feeling of oh my gosh I gotta lose my weight but then you feel good about drinking your water that day, you feel good about checking in that day, you feel good because you journaled. Even if you didn't do it all perfectly the small little things that you start to do actually really do help to motivate you but I get the heaviness, the stuck feeling of like, oh my God, like this is so much, right? You know, some people have really big goals.

They, you know, they're looking to lose over a hundred pounds. Been there. That's a really daunting task. How do we build those daily habits? What is your secret sauce to kind of like just pulling things in day by day by day? Because it really is the small things that people do that add up and make a difference. Not any one big thing that anyone's going to do here. So what is tips for like building those foundational habits?

Yeah, great. I'll give you three different approaches because like you, I'm interested in, well, if we lay out a couple, then maybe this one will work for someone and this one will strike a chord with another person. So the number one easiest way to build a new habit is habit stacking. Habit stacking is where you take an already set sequence in your life. Like how do you do your morning, you know, getting ready and evolutions? Well, I brush my teeth, I wash, I floss my teeth, I brush my teeth, I floss my teeth,

I wash my face, I do my hair, right? And if in between that or before or after that sequence, we insert something like, I'm going to drink a quarter of a liter of water. I'm going to listen, I'm gonna press play on Gina Live as I'm doing that sequence. I'm going to journal for 10 minutes right after I doing that sequence. I'm going to journal for 10 minutes right after I finish that sequence.

We're adding, we're inserting one activity to do with this project, the Livy method project, before, after, or in the middle, an already set sequence makes it a lot easier than just like a random time in the day. Well, I should journal sometime today. We all know how that goes. Like sometime it's undefined, it's un-pinned to time,

probably it's not gonna happen. But if we can pin it to an already set sequence, that's called habit stacking. The next way has to do with friction. So if you want to build a new habit, you can remove 20 seconds of obstacles. So what that means is have the correct page of the day of the book of the living method book,

have the like have it queued on your phone, have the Facebook live page up. We're removing 20 seconds of obstacles to make a more easeful pathway to whatever your access point is. Yeah? Yeah, kind of like if I wanna work out in the morning, if I have my clothes on my little bench,

more likely to go work out because I'm like, okay, I don't have to go searching for clothes to wear to go work out. I just have to get up, grab my clothes, put them on. And when my clothes are on and more likely to actually go downstairs, I make it downstairs. I'm more likely to put my running shoes on, put my running shoes on and more likely to actually follow. That's right. That's right. So my gym clothes are at the top of the stairs because later

today that's where I'm going. And you have the playlist queued up or the podcast queued up. You have your running shoes at the front. OK, so there's we're removing 20 seconds of obstacles. But I'll just say one other sister to that is you can insert 20 seconds of obstacles, meaning if you are a nighttime snack or one of the like, you know, low hanging fruit around this is brush your teeth after dinner. Why? Because it's really annoying to re brush and floss like add and floss it. Who wants to do that again? God, that's so annoying. So we remove obstacles or we insert obstacles depending on if we're

trying to build a habit or break a habit in service of your aims here. But I really love that someone Teresa's like habit stacking like brushing my teeth while doing squats, you know, I was totally doing that. And then I just stopped doing it. I don't remember when what's the difference between a habit and a routine? When does the habit become routine? But that's it. It's like habits and routine. It's automated. So when we automate a desired, I have a behavior, desired behavior, I want to turn it into a new habit. And then the habit becomes linked with a bunch of other habits and now I've got a routine. So every Tuesday afternoon with my gym clothes already in my bag I go to my local gym. Now I've like a string of habits have have lined up into a routine that just recurs. That's what we want because why? It costs us so much less to think about. We don't have to decision make. We don't

have to think too hard about it. I love that you say every day is not gonna be perfect, but every day counts little and often. You talk about that a lot, but how do we recognize when we are actually seeing progress? Because with this, everyone is just so focused on that final number, that goal weights. And as they're getting up every day,

they're getting on that scale, nope, not there yet, nope, not there yet. And then they might, you every day, they're getting on that scale. Nope, not there yet. Nope, not there yet. And then they might, you know, they'll start to see that scale move and they'll have hope and they'll have whatever, but then they always feel the weight of the end game. How do you know when you're making progress?

How can people make that tangible and real? I'm sure that also would help people stay motivated if they're feeling like they're actually progressing. Yeah, that's so beautiful. I would say if you can pre choose your metrics, what do I mean is, what are the things that you are going to use as the mirror to yourself? So scale is one. That's not going to be so easy for everyone. That's not going to always feel like that. You know, I'm real happy I'm doing this every day.

Not a good one. The scale is not it. The scale is not a measure of success or progress. It's a tool. That's it. It's been messed up and contorted around self-worth. Like if it's gone to some really fucked up places. Yeah.

So what are other ones? Like how do your clothes feel? Hmm How much how good is your sleep? Yeah Mmm. How moody are you in your relationships? Who's saying that's gonna improve too So you just get to decide your metrics and then it's not so abstract like I don't know how am I doing have I done anything I'm two weeks in I couldn't tell you well like if that's a thing for you if

you've ever had that happen before of I I'm so busy I mean god I'd be the first person to raise my hand somebody says to me sometimes they'll ask me how are you and I'll be stunned like a deer in headlights like well I actually haven't considered that question in a while. I haven't asked myself, I don't, has anybody, has anybody asked? My kids haven't asked me that. I have no idea. Give me a minute. So yesterday legit.

And they're like, so how are you? I'm like, I'm not sure. I'll tell you, I'll give me a day to think about it. I'll tell you, I'll give me a day to think about it. I'll tell you tomorrow. So if that's you, you can pre-decide what the metrics are. So you know, I used to have a client say it because I work with parents a lot and she'd be like, well, you're only ever as happy as you know, your unhappiest kid. I was like, God, that's impressive.

So it's not far from the truth. But we're not going to use that as a measure. We're not. We are not. Oh my goodness. So non-scale victories. Thank gosh for your list because you don't have you're like, oh my God, now I've got to think about what the metrics are.

No, Gina's already thought about it. Don't worry. Open the book. But can I say one word? Yes. I would love if we just pause and notice the word just. So if we're like, well, just do this, just do that. Just show up.

Just drink your water. So I come from a world working with students who have ADHD, disability, all kinds of things that are happening for them. And it's hard. They're working through sobriety. They're working and it's hard. They're working through sobriety. They're working through a failed course. They're working through probation.

And what am I gonna say, just do your homework? Like I would never, the whole point is to like, we're gonna take all the shame away. So it's the same here, okay? So just, it's not so easy. So what we do is little and often with boatloads of compassion, one day, one meal at a time. With strategies, strategies.

I want people to sit with that for a minute because they just want to do everything. You desperately want to do everything. You desperately want to be successful and we totally understand that. But what's great about the living method is all the little things that you do add up. You're going to have days where you feel like a rock star and other days you're literally eating chips and drinking wine for breakfast. Like that's just how it's going to be. Some of you may have a clear path forward and some of you are going to feel like there's always may have a clear path forward and some of you are gonna feel like there's always something coming at you.

And that's just seasons of our lives and life is going to continue and you have to put one foot in the front of the other and just keep going. I saw you pointing to atomic havoc. So there was one time, I just wanna say as a side note, there was one time, maybe it was like three days where my book was bought with jeans Clear was like the most exciting. I felt like a rock star, but that's not the point

Um 1% right? It's the aggregate of 1% So a little bit more water than you were used to drinking before this program You and I love James Clear Like if you're trying to make change in your life, work through old habits, create new ones, make change in your life, we love James Clear. I know what it feels like to have your book right beside him. We've been wanting to- Well, of course you do, Gina. Oh my God.

Speaking of Dr. Dana Carra, she's gonna be back with us throughout the program. This isn't the one and only conversation. She understands, she gets it, right? She wants you to be successful and she's gonna be back throughout the program as we talk about a variety of different things when it comes to unlearning and relearning and learning new things and continuing to show up and really make the most of this program.

You can pick up her book, Feel Good Learning at Amazon. She also has her book, Raising Well Learners. You can go to her website and find out everything that you need to find out, including her courses that she also offers for students by going to awakenedlearning.ca. Now on Thursday, Dr. Beverly David is gonna join us and she's gonna be talking about how your past,

especially your past history of dieting can factor into your current journey. And then of course you all met Dr. Alinka in our first Meet Our Guest segment during prep week. Well, the three of them are getting together and they are offering their course called Find Your Way Through the Fog. It is happening this Thursday, May 1st.

If you're interested in signing up for that, you can go to the website, awakenlearning.ca and find out more about that. Thanks for everyone who joined us live today. Thanks everyone who is listening after the fact. I know you got some good, good yummy takeaways. Have a great rest of your day as always Dr. Dina Kara Schaeffer. I adore you and I'm already looking forward to our next conversation. Thanks everybody. Thanks, Gina.