The Livy Method Podcast - Stop Punishing Yourself Into Change

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

Self-criticism feels productive. That's the trap.In this episode, Gina Livy and Maintenance group manager Odette get honest about what really happens when your plan doesn't go the way you thought it would and why beating yourself up about it isn't accountability, it's just a different kind of avoidance.They discuss what it actually means to show yourself compassion without using kindness as an excuse to stop doing the work.This episode aligns with day 43 of our Spring 2026 maintenance program. You can find the full video hosted at:https://www.facebook.com/groups/ginalivymaintenanceandmindfulnessTo learn more about The Livy Method and our Maintenance & Mindfulness group, visit livymethod.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm going to be honest with you, this podcast is unapologetically a hot mess because that is what midlife feels like sometimes. Why, though? And how do we make it better? Do we all just need facelifts and g-lp-1s? I mean, let's talk about it. No bullshit, no wellness wankery here because we're trying to make real change and change is hard. But we're in this together. Welcome to the Living Method podcast.

Who are you? Good. It is a happy Monday today. I heard you ask that on your live this morning in the weight loss group. I'm feeling like it's a happy Monday today. I just am like every fucking day. Happy Monday, happy Tuesday, happy Wednesday. How about like fuck this Thursday?

This is bullshit Friday. Like, I don't know. I just, you know, I want to be authentic and real about where we're all at and leave room for like today I'm hungover from a migraine I had last night. Right? Like my face is so puffy from all the drugs. I can barely keep my eyes open. I am just like, fuck.

But the same time, the sun is shining. my pool is open and you know I just gosh it's so great and so shit at the same time yeah I agree I mean I shared last week that um I've been anticipating week six coming for a little while because the last two week sixes have been pretty traumatic for me in terms of major loss your dad died and your dad passed away on week six of the fall program and your sister passed away on week six the spring, summer program, I mean the winter program. Just saying it out loud, Odette is really fucked up. Yeah, it is.

And I've been thinking about this because it wasn't like, I wasn't putting this timeline on it. Like, oh, it's been a month. It's been like two months. Oh, it's been three months. And I'm like, no, it's week six. Like what, like I just kept thinking about that coming up. It's coming up. It's coming up.

What's it going to bring? I was already, I was already spiraling, thinking about what was going to happen. how I was going to feel. How was I going to cope? What am I going to do? How am I going to like? And it was like I was making it bigger than it was. Well, I mean, it's big, but I was like working myself up about it.

So this morning I woke up. It's true. I just want to say like, you know, because we just, we just went past the third year anniversary of the kid's dad passing. Yeah. And like there was a bit of a month long process where he went into the hospital. There was stuff that happened. Like my one daughter's got trauma because she was there every day because she

lived in the city and then my other daughter's got trauma because she didn't visit him because he was always in the hospital and then my other kids have trauma because they were sick at the time and had a bad cold and couldn't go visit him like it's just a lot and the whole the whole month leading up is just it's like they relive it and so you're kind of reliving it every six every week six of the program which is kind of like so yeah okay sorry I just want to like understand like this is a big deal yeah yeah it is a big deal and And that's why I was like this anticipation of it coming and the lead up and all of that was like, you know, what am I going to do? Do I need to take the week off? Do I need to do this? I need to do that. Like, what do I need to do? And then I woke up this morning and I'm like, oh, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. I'm like, oh, sun is actually, it's beautiful today. Sun is out. It's okay. Like I was just, I'm sure the emotions are going to come and go as the week goes on. And, and, and I'm like, I'm sure the emotions are going to come and go as the week goes on. and but yeah it's okay today it's like sue said the hair the anticipatory anxiety gets me every time

this was the same like day of by the time the day of came we were all cried out and anxiety out like by the time it was actually arrived and and you know not to downplay what you're going through but something that came up while we were talking is the trauma of dieting yeah and downsizing brings up some of the trauma like of starving depriving like, you know, all the time that you missed out because you were trying to eat less, all the times you felt like a failure because you didn't eat less enough. Like downsizing can bring up a lot of trauma tied into dieting, right? Yeah, for sure.

And because it's this, it's the same, it's this antisupport, and whatever that word is, Sue. Right. I don't know. That anxiety, it's like, it's, like, it's. It's that feeling of like, oh, it's that what if? What's going to happen? What's going to happen the first time I eat something that I think is off plan? What's going to happen the first time I can't perfectly get my water?

And what's going to happen the first time, you know, I overeat and I feel almost sick from it? You know, like it's that it's that trauma that's going to come back that's going to make you feel like, oh, yeah, I am a failure. Oh, yeah, I can't do this. Oh, yeah, it is much worse. You know, it is those feelings. It's that trauma. It's that it because it's that learned experience.

That's what you know to be true. Until you can rewire and reprogram it, that's what you know to be true. It's interesting because I saw, you know, in the notes that Odette sent me, here's a comment from a member. Last time we downsized, I was lucky if I did one meal or snack a day, just mentally not into it last time. And I love that because now you're back and you have another chance. So what happened?

You weren't able to do it. So what? You're here. You're still working on it. Today I woke up and said, let me be all in and bring on the field. I'm ready for the mental work this time. And it's okay that you weren't last time, right? Like different seasons of not just the seasons and the weather, but different seasons of our life. And it's okay if last time you were like, I just was not in a place to be able. And it's okay if you're not

in a place this time either as long as you are not getting on yourself about what you're not doing. Right. You understand why and that you're focusing on at least something. So the reason why you can't be all in is probably the thing that you need to focus on in your life right now. And that thing that you are focused on in your life right now that's preventing you from doing the things that you need to do here needs to be a focus because probably if you don't manage that in the right way, you're going to fall back into old habits and that's going to cause you to gain that way back. See how it's all connected?

Yeah. That's why it's all connected. And that's why this week we are talking about this place of compassion, this place of self-compassion, because we know from Dr. Ruth and from her researchers, from her research are members that have empathy for themselves and have compassion from themselves and are willing to learn from these experiences versus trying to control them or feel like, you know, criticize themselves. These are the people that are able to maintain and move forward. It's not, it's, you're not in this place of allowing old habits to creep back in or allowing

that ripple effect of. Yeah. I messed up. What's the point? I'm a failure. I'm terrible at this. I can't do it instead of like, okay, I messed up. I wasn't into it. What can I learn from this? How can I move forward from this? This is where that kindness and that compassion actually matters versus trying to criticize. And I think we come, when you talk about old diet trauma, I think this is where that criticism comes from, right? The self-criticism feels productive. Like, yeah, I'm such a loser. I've got it. I'm going to work harder next time. I can't, I can't do this. I can't figure it out. But like, you know, it's a like punishing yourself into taking action versus loving yourself into taking action.

Oh, God. I fucking love that so much what you just said there. The self-criticism feels productive because in one sense, I'm like, how do I get people to understand that? Just checking in, just listening to this conversation, just showing up, just doing what you can do is so much more productive than this time criticizing yourself. Like I also like, okay, we also, we can do hard things. Let's go.

Let's push this, whatever. Let's get her down. Let's shit, do. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, like, if that's not where you're at, your life right now, then if I can help you see the value and the things that you are doing, right, just trying to drink a little bit more water, trying to get your leafy greens in, try not to skip meals and stuff. Just being remotely mindful is still way more productive than

the self-criticism. Like that's just, it feels productive, but it's not really. Yeah. And I think we have to, we have to remember to self-compassion is not this place where we are ignoring, you know, what we're not doing. It's not a place of making excuses or finding those loopholes. Like it's like you don't want to say, well, I'm giving myself some kindness, so I'm not going to do the things. I'm giving myself some compassion. So I'm not going to do the things.

And I just thought of that when you're like, if you're not in this place where you're like, let's go, let's do it, let's make it happen. Let's make it work because you, you know, you feel like you want to give yourself some grace. That's okay. But don't be like, well, I'm not going to do. what I need to do or I'm going to forget what's important to me because I'm going to give myself some compassion. I think there's a fine line there too, right? It's not, compassion is still, you know, doing the things because you love yourself and you want to be

kind to yourself and you want to do the things that take care of you. But it's not a place of making, you know, excuses because you don't want to do the things. And then tying the word compassion and kindness to it. Yeah, I'm just feeling like for me, I'm either fucking awesome and crushing life or I am an utter complete failure. Like there is no, if I think about where do, where does compassion, grace, patience, understanding, kindness, where does that fall? That really falls in the middle because when you are crushing life, you don't need any of that.

You don't need the compassion, the grace, the patience, and the kindness, right? And when you are a complete and other failure, you just, you can't see the compassion, the kind. You're just like, fuck this. I suck. I'm fucking everything up. Like, I'm never going to do this. Like, why am I like this?

Oh, my God. I drank the wine again. I ate the chips again. I, you know, like, fuck me. And then so where, where's the middle ground? And I think the middle ground is that space, the kindness, the compassion, the patience, the understanding. Like, it's hard to, if you're on either end, it's hard to find the use for the kindness and compassion, the patience and the grace and all that. There's just no use for it.

Because when we're at the low, we just want to wallow in our lowness. Like, I find you have to. to also feel your feels or they just like if you allow yourself to actually feel them then you can work through them otherwise they keep revisiting you hey have you felt this yet felt that yet and you never do so like when i'm feeling really low i like to go really low into that but then i say to myself okay that's enough real life and that's the that's the middle part that's that's that part right yeah yeah and you know go back to this point of, you know, this, the way you talk to yourself and the way you say, like, if you were in your

lowest low, you know, and you were there and you're feeling it and, you know, your friend came along and was like, well, I see you in your lowest low, you should just be there. You know, just stay there. Just, you know, you've already messed up. You might as well just stay there. You know, would you ever say that to your friend? I know we've heard this before, like talk to yourself like you would talk to somebody that you love or the something that you care about. And it's true. Like you're like, okay, I'm in this lowest low. I'm going to stay here for a minute.

But I'm not going to stay here forever. You know, you got to know that you're going to come out of that eventually. You're going to take action to move past that. And it's like talking to yourself that way. Allow yourself to be there. Allow yourself to be really low if you need to be. But know that it's not the place that you're going to stay. And you wouldn't talk yourself into staying in that place.

Just like you wouldn't talk your friend into being in that place. Like, yeah, they're having me like, yeah, oh, yeah, you should just stay there. just like to, you know, it is true, right? Because sometimes you do have to be like, sometimes your friend, you have to be honest and real with your friend. I mean like, okay, you listen, you need to do this, right? Like you need to like, come on. But then also when you're like, are you okay?

Right. What can I do? Or maybe we could do this or maybe we could do that. Like how can I, you're thinking of ways to support your friend who's having a hard time, right? No matter where they're at what's going on. You think of how can I support them? and not leave it up to them to tell you because like they're not in a place. Sometimes you're just not in a place. And so if you take a step back and be like, okay, what do I need here? Do I really need

the bottle of wine or do I need to call a friend, go visit someone, go for a walk, sit outside, have a tea. You might still choose the wine, but you've got to, you've got at least offer up something else for yourself. And that's where you be your own cheerleader, your own champion. No one's coming to save you. That's where that's where it comes from. But it all sort of, it's with awareness. And that's why there's so much value in just maybe you can't do the thing, but you are aware of the thing that you need to do and why you cannot do it. That in itself, I guess.

That's huge. That's the piece. So how would you, if this was your friend, if you could make a double of yourself, right? What would you, and this was your friend, but it's you, what would you say to them? How could you help them? How would you best support them? What advice would you offer? And sometimes it is a little stern.

Like, okay, that enough. enough, you need to go and get this. You need to go and do that. You need to like, come on. And then other times, most times it's, it's understanding, right? It's, it is that kindness, that piece. Yeah, I think it's a mix of both, right? I think you can allow yourself that space to have that softness and that kindness and that, you know, just that element of just letting it be, knowing that it's not, you know, there's a time and a place and that's got to come, you know, to an end. And then you've got to go back to doing the things. We had a great, great post. I've I called Buchanan come on in the weight loss program.

And Kim posted a post afterwards that was like, if your body could talk, what would it say to you? You know, and not even just in one scenario. Like in a lot of scenarios, as we, you know,

we're like getting on our body and how it's responding or not responding for us. Like, what would it say to you? Like, what do I need right now? I'd be like, bitch, you fucking need to like go to bed at a decent time.

You know, you need to drink a little bit more water. Less vodka, more water. You need to eat a fucking leafy green already. You haven't seen one around here in a month. Like, you know, like what would your body, if you could communicate with your body and you have this symbiotic relationship, which you actually do, you're good at the mind

piece. We probably just suck more at the body piece because of this trust would ever learn behavior. So if your body had could speak to you, what would it be saying? You know, and that's that that's the mind-body connection. And that when you're connected and the self-aware, then that makes you connected to everything else what works for you what doesn't work for you and at the end of the day that's what that's just what we're trying to do that seemed really big and heavy for a monday but no i don't think it's big and heavy at all listen if i was going to have a big and heavy monday um i'd let i'd let you know

if i was feeling it i'm not feeling i think it's good like not holding back any words today no emotions no words well and i think you know i was just talking to slipia and i had a meeting about social media and sophia's one who does social media i'm like what do people need they they don't want to be on their phones all day every day anymore. Like I don't know about you, but we don't need anyone else telling us what to do anymore. I don't need another fucking tent to do list. I don't want to feel like I'm not doing enough anymore. I'd want to spend less time scrolling on social media, but, you know, I have friends on social media and connection there. And it is a great opportunity to learn. And I was saying, like, we do everything differently here. The conversations we have in weight loss

are different than the conversations out there. Maintenance is a conversation that nobody truly is, is having, right? And it's not just the conversations that we're having in here. It's to have conversations people are having with themselves and seeing it through that lens. Seeing your life through the lens of this person who's gone and made all these healthy lifestyle changes. Seeing your life through the lens of this person who's able to maintain and sustain their weight is just a really different perspective than what you're seeing out there.

So they have to be more intentional about feeling it in here, you know? I want to say something to that about the, you know, maintenance is not a conversation that anybody else is having. And, you know, I go into this, I'm online too and I'm looking at things and what else is out there in our industry? What else is out there that people are talking about? What else are they, you know, what else is being said? And this whole conversation around maintenance, I mean, you can find it out there. When you find this conversation about maintenance, it's always the same. It's always about macros.

It's always about, you know, counting your calories and knowing what your actual calories have to be with your macros to be able to maintain your weight. And that's the conversation. So this maintenance conversation, it is, you know, it is out there. It's happening, but it's all the same conversation. What we want to talk about here in maintenance is, okay, great. So you know, you figured out your macros and you figured out your calories. if that's the method that you're going to use, what do you do now when you can't figure out your macros and your calories

because it's situational change, because you're going through something that's traumatic and you don't have the capacity to sit down and figure all of that out? How do you honor those feelings? How do you deal with that mindset and that spiraling back into old habits, old triggers, old coping mechanisms? If you're not working through all of that, The macros and the calories, that's just math and science, but that's not the emotional piece to it.

And that's not what's going to help you maintain your weight long term because life is going to happen. Things are going to happen that you're not going to be able to do that math and do those calculations. You know, maybe for months at a time it could be. You know, so how do you navigate maintenance beyond the macros and the calories and all of that? I mean, food is still important. We've never said it's only about the emotional piece. It's only about the mindset. It's not only about that.

Of course, the nutrient dense food is important. Not eating beyond satisfaction all of the time, feeling stuffed and full is important. Getting your water in is important. But that emotional piece, that mental piece, that mindset piece, that's the key, that's the key missing part of the conversation that we're having. Fucking macros is so fucking stupid. I'm going to say it out loud.

I'm so pissed off. It's proteins, carbs, and fats. Why do we, where did macros come? Macro, what did it even fucking come from? It just came from people trying to make it even more complicated. Calories in versus calories out. Dig my fucking heels in. That's the way to do it.

You had to be in a calorie fucking deficit. It's oversimplifying the calories in versus calories out. It's so fucking dumb. The math that's needed. What we're fucking, like, are you kidding? We're the only species on the planet. We have to count our fucking food. Like, it's so gross.

like macros proteins right for muscle maintaining muscle right carbohydrates for energy foods vegetables

you know fruits healthy starches whatever fats fucking for cellular function backup energy reserve like macros

like who the fuck even came up with that stupid fucking word that means nothing it's just nothingness like there's no energy even macros

feel the word macros. It has no energy in it. It's just useless fucking information to make other people sound like they're smarter. Let's count our macros today. Let's do math to figure out how much we need. Let me tell you how I really fucking feel about that. You will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, be able to sustain and maintain your weight through math. Because at some point you are right. Right. You, what causes you to gain your weight back? Going back to old habits and counting and weight and measuring doesn't help you figure out the shit you need to work through your issues and associations tied into food, your relationship with yourself, with other people,

with food, habits just in general, right? Counting doesn't make you change your habits. Counting doesn't make you understand your food waste issues, your scarcity issues. County doesn't help you understand when you're fucking pissed off because someone fucking said something to you that pissed you off and now you're stress eating. Fucking counting shit doesn't help you when people die. Counting doesn't help you when your kid is a fucking disaster, right? like counting doesn't do anything for you other than make you feel like you are doing something.

Mm-hmm. So fucking dumb. So dumb. I don't know where that came from. And just him like, I've seen it this weekend on social media and I just, it's so stupid. Yeah. And I saw it too. And that's why I wanted to bring it up is because I'm like, okay, are we truly having a conversation

that is not being had. Are we truly making, are we truly helping people change in a way that is foundational and fundamental? Are we really helping people reprogramming? We are. And we are because that, when we're talking macros, calories, that's the only way to,

that's the only other conversation I could find, right? That's the only other conversation that's being had. And it's so confusing because, you know, to have to do math, and I'm somebody that did that in the past, that, you know, how to track what was coming in and what was going out. And then it's like, but I don't, like, how does that equal feeling, feeling, you know, satisfied and feeling full?

And I can't, I can't track for a week because I'm not living at home. Like, I'm out on vacation. I can't track. Well, then I'm not going to track when I get back either. So it's so convenient not to track, you know, it's so convenient not to weigh and measure. So I think that that's where that came from. And I think also, like looking at some of these, these. calorie reels that you were sharing over the weekend, these comparisons.

And some of them I love, some of them I feel like they are a little bit vilifying at the same time. Like, you know, you've got your breakfast sandwich and then you've got all this other beautiful food. Well, the breakfast sandwich is, it's not to say this is the bad food. It's to help me give you an understanding of, okay, the breakfast sandwich is there. It has this many calories. But look at all of this other food.

Yeah. It has the same amount of calories, but also has fiber. also has, you know, it's also hydrating. You know, we forget about that piece with those fruits that are, that are hydrating, the fiber, the nutrients, those, all those, you know, everything else that comes with it. So I think that when we're looking at those calorie comparison reels, like that's also very important. It's not about vilifying one food over the other.

It's about understanding what else that food is doing for you. So yes, it's giving you calories, but it's also giving you so much more, where this maybe breakfast sandwich is giving you the calories and short-term sustainability, but not giving you everything else. I think that, if we can look at it that way too, I think that's an important piece with these comparisons. You just said something so huge right there that just caused me to think, eat less, eat less, exercise more.

When you think of eat less, you're not really, for the thousands of fucking times I've said that, you're not really thinking eat less calories. you think eat less food. Less volume. That's volume. Right? Like that, I am writing this down because you think eat less, exercise more. You're not, you think volume.

So you are thinking, well, I just had one breakfast sandwich and I just had one salad at lunch and I just had dinner. That can be a lot more calories than eating a large volume of food. Like the living method, you can eat so much food when it's healthy nutrient rich foods and still be way under calories and easily be in a deficit and still have lots of room to eat even more. I'm not big and I've never been big on volume eaters. Let's see how much I can eat in one sitting for my calories. It's not it. Always just eating enough to be in tune.

Everyone does extremes. But yeah, when you think of eat less exercise more, you think of number of times that you are eating or smaller amounts of food without understanding. the calorie count. So you could eat like a breakfast sandwich and, you know, a coffee with double sugar in it, whatever, it could be more calories than the whole day of eating on the Libby Method. But you perceive that I ate less. And then when you can compare what you're eating all day when following the program versus that, it can seem like way too much, you know.

Huh. Huh. Huh. Yeah. So I think, you know, even what, like, when we talk about nutrient-dense food, too, like if you look at, you know, a cup of berries and a cup of nuts, those are both still healthy foods, you know, good for you foods, nutrient-dense foods.

But just because they're both, you know, whole foods that we love around here, they still have very vast different amounts of calories in them. Yes. You know, like those nuts are less nuts are going to keep you satisfied longer because you're getting more nutrients with them with the fats and the proteins, you know, where berries are not going to last quite as long. And, you know, so it's not just comparing, you know, Doritos with watermelon. That's not what we're saying. It's, you know, what is actually in these foods? You can compare them all and see, like, what is this food doing for me? Not just what, how many calories am I

getting from this? Right. Yeah. Yes. I'm going to stop saying eat less. Eat less calories, exercise more because eat less, I think, refers to eating less, which is why people always fear that they're eating too much. Or on the other side, they fear that they're not eating enough when they're still eating really good nutrient-rich foods, you know? Interesting. Tell us how you really feel, Gina. I'm, my, it's interesting. I just talked to Sophia about TikTok and whatever and like, let me tell you how I really feel. My defenses are down today because my brain hurts from having a migraine. And also I feel like with you guys too, I'm scrolling social media and it's just,

it's like people doubling down on these things and just it's making it seem so hard when it's just really the basics, being in tunes. What's going on in your life? What do you need? What's going on with your health and how you're feeling? What do you need? What's going on in your social world? What do you need?

And that's what this is. And it's all an opportunity to practice being in tune, practice being in the moment, practice being mindful, practice being self-aware, practice trusting when to eat, what to eat, and how much to eat. So the takeaway for me today with downsizing is maybe you can downsize every meal and snack. Maybe you can only downsize a couple of meals and snacks. Just attempting, just being aware, just listening to this today is enough. If you want to do more, be intentional about what you want to do and why.

And if you can't do more, that's okay too, right? Like that's, it's, it's downsizing is for some people very physical and actually downsizing in their meals and snacks and other people are more mental and the thoughts and feels that pop up, right? So there is no right or wrong way to downsize when you're in maintenance because it really is about what what comes up this week. Yeah. And I think the takeaway too tying it to downsizing is how are you talking to yourself and treating yourself if your plan doesn't go the way that you thought it was this week,

if your downsizing plan didn't end up being what you thought it was going to be. You know, how are you going to talk to yourself through that? Yeah, and there could be a separate thing happening where you just, you committed to doing this, this live session of the maintenance program and maybe you're not showing up in the way that you know you can or want to, then that is a different conversation. I think there is that you being like, okay, this I sign. out because I wanted to follow through and do all of that. Is there a reason why you're not, like there is that piece of understanding versus, okay, we can do hard things. And I want to be

intentional about doing the things I can do sooner rather than later to help maintain and sustain my weight, to make my weight my new norm. Right. So, so there's, there's no right and wrong way. There's different variations. You have to know when to be accountable and be like, give yourself that kick in the ass and also when to throw in the kindness and patience and understanding. I think that in itself is like that part of knowing where you're at and what you need. Sometimes it is a kick in the pants. Sometimes it is the patience and kindness, right? So I'm not saying that you can't be accountable, can't be a little hard on yourself,

but make sure you're, you know, there's, if you're going to be hard on yourself, make sure it's in a kind and patient and understanding way. Yeah. All right. What do you want us to know before Wednesday? That's really, I think we covered a lot today. I think it's, yeah, the, you know, downsizing is this tweak that we use and we get these questions a lot. Why are we doing it? Why are we doing it?

Well, we're doing it to bring up, you know, uncomfortable, an uncomfortable place to be and how you talk yourself through it. And, you know, and how you talk yourself through if the plan doesn't go the way you thought it was. Because it's important, it's important to have that kindness, compassion, but it's also important not to let that be also become an excuse. So that's all you really have to know. We're going to talk more about, you know, coping mechanisms and what we know about, you know, maintainers and what they have. about their new coping mechanisms now. So we'll talk about that more on Wednesday, but really that's it.

Just be kind to yourself. Yeah, I love that. I just, I want to read this comment from Judy. I've realized that my body is speaking to me all the time. I just haven't been listening. And this one from Christine Calories in versus out made me only eat a bag of smart food popcorn for 1,200 calories. Yeah.

Yeah. That shit is good, though. It's good shit. It is good. I do like smart food. Okay. Thanks for that. Thanks, thanks, everyone who joined us.

We always appreciate you chiming in and being part of the conversation. We appreciate you being here with us and allowing us to have this conversation because it's my favorite conversation. It may seem like it irritates the shit out of me sometimes, but it actually is something because I'm super passionate about and I love it. This is my safe place to discuss it. So thanks, everyone. Have a great rest of your Monday and we'll see you next time. Bye. Thanks for that.

Bye, everyone.