The Livy Method Podcast - Your House Shouldn't Be Something You Recover From

Episode Date: September 2, 2026

You keep meaning to deal with it. The closet, the freezer, the room you close the door on. And you keep not doing it, then wondering what's wrong with you.Professional organizer and certified KonMari consultant Effy Terry joins Gina to talk about why nothing is wrong with you, why clutter in midlife is really just catch-up, and why the clothes in the back of your closet are keeping you stuck at a size and a stage you've already left. They get into aspirational buying, sunken cost, body doubling, sharing a home with someone whose system isn't yours, and why an organized pantry has more to do with weight loss after 40 than anyone tells you.One thing you can change today: open one drawer and get rid of the past versions of yourself.Because your home should be the place you recover in, not the place you recover from.Where to Find Effy:Website: https://organizethat.ca/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/organizethatwitheffyterry/Effy appears on the Netflix series, Hoarders (Season 15, Episodes 9 & 11)This podcast aligns with Sep 2nd of our Summer Club, members can find video in our Livy Method app or Summer Club Community Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/livymethodspring20 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm going to be honest with you, this podcast is unapologetically a hot mess because that is what midlife feels like sometimes. Why, though? And how do we make it better? Do we all just need facelifts and JLP ones? I mean, let's talk about it. No bullshit, no wellness wankery here because we're trying to make real change and change is hard. But we're in this together. Welcome to the Living Method podcast. If you're looking to lose weight and you want to keep it off, you have got to check out the Living Method. Next live session starts September 14th. Better than ever, easy to follow. We have the most incredible community and it works. Head over to living method.com to sign out today.

Welcome to the show, Effie. My goodness, let me just tell you I need you today. I'm just embodying this whole segment. I don't know, like, yeah. Hi. Nice to be here. Thanks for having me, Gina. I'm really excited.

I love this topic. It's so related. You know, I was just on your Instagram account doing a bit of a deep dive on you. And I love that your handle is like problem solver. Yes. Right. So this is going to be so much more than just how to clean out your closet. I know it is. You know, I feel like this all the time. I was thinking about you today. Like I'm a smart woman. I am a good mom. I run a successful business. I help other people. Yet I constantly feel like my life. life is a state of chaos and clutter. Like if I showed you my space and what was happening right now, I'm constantly trying to organize knowing it's going to clear my mind, yet I have such a hard time doing it.

Why are we like this? Do you know what I want to call it instead of chaos and clutter, which kind of have negative connotations, I want to call it catch up because we're constantly catching up, right? And if you, if I were to pan around my office, I'm playing catch up too. I went to the gym yesterday. My bathing suit is drying on my rack behind my door.

I've got things off to the side I need to remember to take with me when I go out. Behind me, if you zoom down, there's vitamins I need to take. There's bills I need to pay. So we're all in a state of catch up. And my job is to make that catch up faster. So to create systems, whether you're losing weight or getting organized, something where you can recalibrate faster. so you're not always doing what I call a triage.

Like when you let things go for months, then you're triaging. You're like, where do I begin? And that's where people get stuck. Yeah, are we just overly busy? Because I, listen, I can binge a whole Netflix series. So it's not like I don't have time. But why is it so, why is it, are we just all faking it until we make it? Are there people that are actually organ, like here I am asking.

Are there people that are actually organized? and have their shit together? Or are we all just pretending like we do and we're feeling like we're failing? Well, it's a matter of priorities, right? And also, what do you enjoy doing? So we're going to enjoy doing. We're like, if I enjoy organizing my vitamins, I'm not going to do my accounting work because, uh, boring.

And so I'm going to do the things that fuel like my dopamine, let's say. So it's not that organization is not a destination, right? It's a daily practice. it's up to you to figure out what's your priority on that day. And I only say set up a system for your most tired day. If you, if that system can work for you on the day that you are the most tired, it will work on every other day. Yeah, we have a learning strategist who says little and often. I guess this is no different that I want to go to the gym. I want to get in shape. Why am I not going to the gym? How much does our though our personal space affect everything else in our lives? Because I

feel like vacations are so nice because I'm like removed. It's kind of like dirty fish bowl, right? So I live in a dirty fish bowl. You take the fish out of the bowl and it's like, that's me on vacation. The fish is out of the bowl. I'm like, oh my God, my mind is calm. I'm motivated to move and then I come back and I'm plopped right back down to my dirty fish bowl again. Well, different brains function differently, right? And we can all enjoy like a vacation that has a nice clean room. But for example, ADHD. So people with ADHD may enjoy seeing their things out in the open because they have a memory of where things are. And if it's not in sight, there's an out of sight, out of mind means like if you were to hide something in a filing cabinet, it might as well go

into a black hole. So even in a hotel room, you know, if you like that kind of visual, because you don't want to forget anything when you leave, your hotel room may, mimic your home and that's okay, right? Like different people have different, there's no right or wrong. It's just whatever works for your brain and whatever you can reset the most efficiently for your life. It's kind of like what the standard is. So I've written this book and it's about living lighter. And I got my friend Lynn to design the home section. And when I first went to her house, and it's not luxury over the top. It was just clear spaces. And I felt calm. And she has been navigating her husband, Michael's cancer journey. So she's like, this is what we needed. We just need a nice calm,

clear space. And when I walked into that space, I'm like, oh my goodness, I need this. But I also had four younger kids. You know, I'm building a business. My life is completely different. I don't find what is the norm for us compared to what other people are doing. Well, you know, people like your friend whose husband is navigating cancer, in order to heal in an environment, you need to focus on that. So if you're thinking about, I need to manage, like, my plants are calling to me. My books are disorganized. I need to do this. Your brain is drawn in like so many directions. And when you were saying for us, what did you mean, Gina, when you were saying organized like for like a mom or a family or? Well, wherever you're at in life, because with social

media, we're seeing what other people are doing and how they're living. I went and did a podcast yesterday and the woman had such a beautiful home and I'm just like everything was nice and organized and clean and I'm just like oh my gosh like I feel like why am I not living like this? Well, will you get to a tipping point where you need to live like what's behind me are things I need, right? So like I'm of a certain age right now of menopause and I've got my fan here because it gets so hot. Right. So that is my friend. It stays with me at all times. I used to have it in front me because I was embarrassed. You know, I'm not even going to say what I want to say, but like, it's there now. So it's part of me. So we live, we live our lives based on the things we need

around us. And they, they will get to a tipping point where you're like, I just can't take this anymore. And it's what, again, back to priorities, whatever your priority is. Okay. So I think your, your space is telling you, you are ready to do something about it. If you are not feeling comfortable or calm or whatever the word would be. So we've recognized, okay, this is not, the situation, ideal situation I want to be living in or stuff I want to be surrounded by. How do we make change? Because, you know, I used to do this thing called clean out, drag out, where I would pull everything out and I would just get rid of everything.

And my husband at the time was so resistant to that. That it's almost like every time I did that, although it worked for me and it really helped clear my mind, I was, I got to a place where I, I, I, felt guilty or shame in doing that because he was like, why are you doing that? We need that. And don't give that away and don't do that. Now I'm with a completely different husband and I can do whatever I want. Yet I still carry that whatever is preventing me from doing the clean out, drag out. How do we create spaces that work for us while we are sharing those spaces with other people, I guess is where I'm going with this? Well, we have to first of all give ourselves.

is grace, right? It's like, it is what it is moving forward. So how we do this with other people is we have to really respect the other people's things. You cannot organize someone else's things. But, you know, there's a strategy, for example, with couples or with partners that you have a shared space or a box. And anything that's not, that you don't feel comfortable in that space, you're going to put it in that space and say, that's a transition. And we need to talk about it. And once a week, get together and say, does this need to be in our, in the shared space? If not, we need to find a home for it because it's affecting you. So it's communication, right? Like everything is, I did training in alternative dispute resolution when I left my corporate world. And it comes in

so handy because it's, you know, boundaries. It's all about boundaries are supposed to be a bridge, not a wall. And so boundaries help us connect with our, and it's hard sometimes when you've never set a boundary and all of a sudden you're like, this is my boundary. And then people are like, whoa, who is this new person? I don't know you. So you got to like baby steps sometimes. I hate to say it. But you got to pick your time, pick the mood. And then make it a habit and then make it open. Say, hey, this is what I'm feeling? What are you feeling? Like, is there anything in the space that's bothering you? Yeah. Interesting. We just had a family meeting on Sunday night and we're sitting around the dinner table and saying like, okay, what do you want to accomplish this year and how

can we support you? And one of the things my husband and I talked about is like morning breakfast time. It would be really great if we didn't wake up to a kitchen full of dishes and nacho making at three o'clock in the morning. And it was interesting because just explaining why we needed the kitchen cleaned as opposed to yelling at our kids, you know, clean the kitchen. I think that's that boundary that you're talking about. Here's Taya here. My boyfriend. My boyfriend, friend has ADHD. He displays everything and I'm a minimalist. He has one and I'm living in an overwhelming home. Okay. What would I say to that? So again, I would have a conversation. I would, what was the person's name again? Yeah. So Teia, what I would say is,

do you know, do you know, have you read up about ADHD? So sometimes knowledge can help you understand a little bit better what that person with ADHD is going through. And then you might be able to support them, but also let them know how they can support you also, because although that person may need an accommodation in the house, you may also need an accommodation in another area. Right? So knowledge is really important because parents come to me,

and they use words that maybe aren't so nice or partners, and it's like, why are they like, you might even say lazy? And it's like, I'm not saying Tayas saying that about her partner. But when you, when you don't understand ADHD, you may think that someone not doing something is actually an executive function challenge of initiation, actually doing the thing. Like, you know what to do. You're not, you know, we said we're intelligent people, but it's that executive function kind of challenge that to actually activate to do it. And that, that's also there's strategies for that, right? Like make it fun.

make it fun to get it done. Novelty. That's my tagline. It's like, let's make it fun. Let's put on some music and whatever works. But a little bit of strategy. And that's why I did that. That's why I did the ADHD coaching certification because a lot of my clients were struggling

with ADHD or challenged or however you want to express it. And so when I did the training and I learned the strategies, I was like I felt like I felt almost like, uh-oh, like now it's like, now I've unlocked, I've unlocked this. And people, when they hear themselves that you understand them, that is like so validating for people. Ooh, yes. Well, and also understanding ourselves, I know you're on the new series of hoarders on Netflix. And, you know, one of the things that I find fascinating about watching that show is their inability to let things go. How do you make that decision? We've all heard with clothes. if you haven't worn it in the last year or two, you know, it's time to let it go.

But what about, you know, I, whenever I go cleaning, I'm always like, well, what, like, what if I do need that? What if there's an apocalypse? I'm going to need clothes. What if there is like, all this weird shit goes through, through our mind. How do we, how do we start with that? How do we get through those? We want to keep it, but we want to let it go.

Do you have an easy strategy for us or a place to start when it comes to navigating that? Sure. So I don't want you to think about organizing your house, this organizing space. I want you to think about it as organizing for the stage of life you're in now. So, right? So Gina, how old are your children? Well, minor, minor, minor, older, 26, 23, 29, and 19. Okay, so even that, so, so if you, let's, let's use an example, you've got an 11 year old and a 14 year old in the house.

And you, they're, they are at a certain stage in life. The family's at a certain stage in life. And there are baby toys in the basement. There are baby books in the basement. So I want you to look at, don't start there. Look at the kinds of things that you may want to keep a few things for mementos, but if they're taking up a space that you could be using for their, you know, video games, for their friends to hang out in and there's baby toys,

then the family sort of stuck in time with those things. So think about, you know, I've gone through marriage, divorce, grief. Like, I've gone through everything. Yeah. We've all been through, well, most of us who are here today have been through a pandemic if we're not, you know, if we're of a certain age. So think about the things that we were hanging on to that don't serve us anymore. Like anything that's in your way, that's not a memento that stops you from moving forward,

keeps you stuck in the past. Start there. So organize for the things of life you're in, not a room. Yeah, I love that. And then what do I need right now today as opposed to me keeping all these things? that I might use years from now. Right. And I'm guilty of holding on to aspirational items. Like when I did the Netflix show, I was 50 pounds heavier.

Okay. So go on television. You'll lose weight. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, that's a subject in itself. But so think about the things that moving forward. So what do you need moving forward? And when you let go of things, it's amazing. You make space in your life. other things that maybe you were blocking.

Well, that's how we were just having a conversation behind the scenes because Sophia, who runs our social media, she was like, you need to have Effie on. She's amazing. And so you actually went to Sophia's home. You helped her organize her closets. And then she ended up losing 50 pounds. And we were just talking about that behind the scenes, this concept of letting go. We had a Kathleen camera on.

She's into manifesting. And she says, you know, people talk about losing. weight, well, when you lose something, you go looking for it. And letting something go is completely different. Is it the same situation as like, let's say my mom, for example, she was working, she had a job and she just wasn't happy working there. And as soon as she left that job, she lost like 30 pounds without even trying. Is this, can we do that in the spaces that we're in? Is that a kind of a version of that? Absolutely. I mean, how many times have you heard of someone, you know, not happy with their corporate job or it, it saw it's where it was supposed to go and it

was an ending and then they go on and they do bigger and better things. I mean, I worked at a corporate job for 27 years and for whatever reason I left. It was time. I took a package and left and now a whole world opened up. But it's interesting with the back a little bit to the weight. I think, and you do this and just, you know, you do this well, losing weight, making space, There's a concept, and it's an ADHD, but it's good whether you have ADHD or not called body doubling. Have you heard of that? No. Okay.

Do you tell. Body doubling is what you do for your community. So you act as a coach as an anchor, so it's more fun to get it done with someone else. You do more reps with a coach, right? And so another organizer said that once, and it's stuck in my brain. But it's true. So body doubling is where the mere physical presence of another person virtually or physically can help. you get a task done. And this is with Sophia what we did. Like, we did that together. And she was going

through a life transition. And the people that are in your program are going through, you know, changes. So if that body doubling, that doing it with someone else can make it feel not so lonely and alienating. Hmm, love that. But what if it's your spouse who doesn't want to do it, right? I'm not a hoarder, but my husband is. He holds on to everything, every bucket of rusty screws. They maybe need, I could go on and on. Is this where you get your girlfriend to come over with like a bottle of wine or whatever and you guys do that together?

Then you have to assign dedicated spaces. So your spaces, my spaces, mutual spaces, mutual spaces have to follow a charter, right? It's like these are the kinds of things. And it's a negotiation. Everything's a negotiation with our kids, with our spouses, with our partners, you know, with our pets. Yeah. Well, this is why we need professional help, like bringing in someone like you. And when you do that, do you like talk to the person about sort of where they're at in life and everything that they have going on? Absolutely. So that's my coaching training. So I'm not a therapist. So I can't resolve past trauma. And I and I have wonderful therapists that I refer to. As a coach, I can help someone where they are now and moving forward. Yeah. The conversation around mindset around what's going like I need to know what's going on in your life. because if people don't tell me, I only see the tip of the iceberg, and the tip of the iceberg might

look like chaos, but underneath is what explains what's really going on. And even if that's grief or trauma, it's good for me to be aware, not for me to resolve, send them off to doctor or therapist, but to understand and have a holistic view of what someone's going through, because if you don't, that can lead to judgment. And if you don't ask those questions as an organizer or as a service provider, you can't really help the person because it might not even be my service they need. It might be someone else. Right. This is this, yeah, this is why you can organize your closet.

And then a week later, it's back to chaos because you're not actually changing anything you're doing. You're just kind of cleaning up your mess. And you may be, your problem might be in your closet. You may be keeping those things that are keeping you stuck at a certain phase. And maybe if you're not ready to let them go, put them in a bin or move them to the back. and try on a new, try on where you are now, right? Which could be scary too for people to go, well, I don't want to be here right now, but I've got to be here.

Okay. So, okay, I'm just trying to relate this to where people are in their journey of losing weight, which really is making sustainable lifestyle changes. And if your space is kind of represented, is it true that your space is representative of kind of what's going on in your brain? I read a thing that was like people who have like a bunch of clutter on their nightstand or just like indecisive or like thinking about things last minute or is there any truth to that we don't want to judge too right because that could be someone's system someone might need to see it out in the open and that might work for them right so when it's when it's an issue is when it's getting

in the way of you living your best life so if someone comes to me and i go into their home and i see i see what looks like clutter all i'll say is that working for you and if they say yes we don't touch anything because I know where everything is. My daughter is 23 years old. She is, she has a system where she needs it laid out. If someone says to me, I can't get to work in the morning because of all the clutter on my nightstand, then we address that, right? So it's whatever I partner with the person, you lead with curiosity when you do what you do. I lead with curiosity, not with judgment to make sure that that's the help they need. I, I have to manage the expert and not say, Effie thinks you should have that. No, what does, you know, what does Teia think she needs? Or what does

Gina or Sophia think they need? Yeah, I get that because that's what we're trying to do, right? How sense of awareness or everyone can figure out for themselves what they need within, you know, a community and support. Yeah, okay, I see what you're saying because I have like, I call it organized chaos. Yes. Right. Where my husband will be like, do you know where this is? And I'm like, it's over there on the thing or downstairs on the shelf or whatever. I know where that is. That works for me. But in another sense, I also know, that my environment can stress me. So how do we be self-aware and be like, okay, this is now, this might be my system,

but my system is not actually working for me. So be a private investigator in your space. So I want you to go around and question everything in your space. So, you know, the fan behind me, do I need it? Yes, I do. Do I need, you know, the picture behind me? Yes, it's a memory from when I went to Greece last summer. It brings me joy.

So like, do I need, do I need this remote? control. No, because I hardly watch TV. So why is it in around my prime real estate? This does not need to be here. So be a private investigator in your space and say like even a pen, like a post-it notes, does it need to be, is it, is it bugging me? Like what's the level of, of agitation that it's giving me, right? Yeah, I know you're, you're, you're familiar with Marie condo. So she came out and my big takeaway is like, if it doesn't bring you joy, don't have it in your space. But you said something there was like also do I need it. Correct. Well, yeah. Like it's, it's okay, I use it because I'm certified in her method.

And it's just one tool in my toolbox, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I did the home show. And they said, well, how can a, how can a toilet plunger spark joy? And it's like, well, if you need it and it's there, it will spark joy. Right. And so it's, it's functional too, right? It's not just the aesthetic. Yeah. And you know, we always. change. We all go through evolutions. Even Murray Condo, you know, after she had kids, she's like, wait a sec, maybe, you know, and so again, giving ourselves grace that one system might not be perfect forever, right? Everything changes. Like weight loss, like I've done, Gina, I have done every single thing to lose weight. When I'm saying everything, all the doctors, all the things,

all the needle, everything. At the end of the day, if it's not right, if you're not, in the mindset to lose weight. And I don't have to tell you this. I'm preaching out of fair. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Right. It's like new system is perfect. It has to be perfect for you or right for you at that time in your life. And so you said something also about small changes over here. I think that's the key also is that we just keep moving forward. We might move back a couple of steps, but that's okay. You know what? Wake up the next day and keep moving forward. And I think That's what I took away when I, you know, I did your program some years ago. That always stuck with me to give yourself grace.

Yeah, I, you know, I went to Europe when I was 16. I went with a boyfriend, his dad was on a, like his dad's sister was on a teacher exchange. We went and we stayed in this villa in France. And it was absolutely beautiful. But at the same time, kind of dirty, right? Like I remember there's like cobwebs and the thing and dirt on the floor. But no one was like, like my, I grew up kind of my mom always. like to have the house clean, right? Dishes done in house clean, all of those things. Our standard of

clean, I find, is a lot different, at least in my experience, any time after that I've gone to Europe. It's one of the things that I love is that, you know, going out and socializing is more important at the end of the day than sweeping your floor. Do you find that our standards have like increased to, like, how do you know when you're just living under an unrealistic standard of like how you should be living? I spent five and a half weeks in Greece last summer and I went through the same thing. So we went to our home there and there was dust and cobblows and scorpions in the house and geckos. And I was like, ah. And then I was like, you know what? It's okay. So here I think what happens is we see a certain aesthetic that we, you know, we might ascribe to or we might aspire to. And it's not real.

Like it really isn't. Like I'm telling you, I'm a very organized person, but I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to judge myself and tell myself I have to be a certain way. It's like it's whatever. We all just need to get through the day with whatever we're dealing with. And whatever helps you do that, great. And if it makes you happy to have matching bins, do it. Right. But don't.

Who am I to say? Like, we can make beautiful labels and we can do a lovely Pinterest. page, but can you, can you maintain it? And will you feel bad if you can't maintain it? That's key, right? And I guess back to what you said previously, like, what is a priority for you? Right. I want to ask, there's, there's people talking about how do I approach or like not become a hoarder with the Costco card, with the jeans I keep buying, with all the trinkets I keep buying. Like, what have you learned about why people amass stuff when a lot of times we don't know? need the stuff that we are amassing. Right. Well, I would say hoarding disorder is a specific mental

disorder on the DSM, right? So we have to be careful about those kinds of labels. And that happens in the, you know, out on Instagram and on TikTok and stuff. So it's a very specific subset with like 3 to 5% of the population. It's a mental, when you say hoarding is like a mental health issue? Correct. It's based. There's different theories. It's based in OCD. It's based with grief and trauma. but that's a big conversation to have. But can there be layers and levels to that? Like if someone does think, like, how do I know if I'm a hoarder or not? Oh, sure.

Like, so I've done some education around that. I'm a certified organizer. If people can reach out to me, there's the Institute for Challenging Disorganization has done a hoarding scale. And you can actually see, you can see the levels of physical clutter. And people can reach out to me. I can send that to them. It's a free resource.

I can direct them to the website too. Okay. So if you're talking about just general collecting, there's lots of reasons why people collect things, right? There's people want to like people sometimes who buy lots of overstock because they don't want to forget or they have busy lives or they, you know, sometimes people just like to spend money. It's a, you know, it fuels some dopamine. You know, I'm guilty of that. If I go on a vacation, I want to go shopping. So it's knowing when that tipping point is and knowing when to reach up for help either an organization.

a therapist, your doctor, a money coach, like look at what's happening in your life right now that's causing that. It's the behavior, right? It's more the underlying what's under the, you know, the mountain. Yeah. What's going on? What's going on? Why do I, if it's not actually bringing me joy, we talk about this like with nighttime snacking with Sandra Elliott, who is a food addiction expert. She's like, if you keep eating stuff at night and is it actually bringing you joy, If you keep buying stuff and it's not bringing you joy and you keep it in your house and it's not bringing you joy. It's probably not the stuff that you need in the first place.

Well, the problem is, too, we might not want to keep it in the house, but our partner likes you know, peppermint patties or it happens in my house. I'm like, ah, like hide that from me. I'm a 58-year-old woman. It's like I should be able to not want to eat that. But at 11 at night when I'm tired and exhausted, I'm like, ooh, chocolate. And so we have to trick our, I don't know, I do these little tricks. I'm like, okay, find a hiding spot and leave it there.

Just I don't want to know where it is. No matter how much I threaten you, I don't want to know where it is. That's a great tip. So before we go, I have a couple of questions. We're here to make change, right? Women are women and men. The program works for everybody. We're trying to lose weight.

We're trying to reach our weight loss goals. And we're doing that by making healthy, sustainable lifestyle changes. So we're not just lose our weight, but we're able to maintain and sustain our weight. So how is being organized going to help us with that or letting go of old things that no longer serve us going to help us with that? Can you kind of frame that for us? The benefits of that. I would say start in your pantry and go through expired items, food things like maybe you were doing keto for a while. Now you're not anymore.

Or go through there and look for past versions of yourself or past versions of things you might have wanted. Right? That's where the magic happens. When we start working, I always tell people if you're having some issues like that, we're going to start your pantry to see I can carbon date things to when. I still find things from 2020 from pandemic because busy lives, what we do is especially deep pantries,

we just shove things to the back and keep adding new stuff to the front. And if it's not organized, you don't have the right foods on hand when you need them. Right? You're just searching for whatever's there because you're tired. So an organized life can help you have the things you need on hand, have your tools around you more handily than if you, than if they weren't. So it's it's having your tools around you. Yeah.

And I would imagine you're going to say the same thing about your fridge and then your closet so you can maybe find, you know, your workout clothes or your clothes. Every those past versions of yourself, like in the freezer. Like how many, I went to see, I had a consultation last weekend and the client's like, ah, and she opened it and closed the freezer really fast. She didn't even know what was left in there. So we're going to go through there. We're going to go get rid of all the past versions of yourself, clothing, and find nice homes for things if we can, like clothing. Like, there are other people out there that can use maybe versions of your clothing that don't suit you anymore because things get obsolete too. You know, when we're working through weight loss issues, a lot of people can deal with like,

food waste issues and food scarcity issues. Is there such a thing as a stuff scarcity? Like, why am I trying to hoard clothes in case there's an apocalypse? Like, how many sweaters do I need to stay warm? Like, how many old jeans I don't even wear are going to help me during the apocalypse? Like, it's craziness. Well, where does that come from? Well, there's something called sunken cost fallacy also, right? So I've spent so much money on these. It's sunken cost fallacy. I've spent so much money on this stuff. I've sunk so much money. into it. I feel bad to let it go. Yeah. You know, I have clients that also buy clothing that aspirationally in between. So I'm this size now. In three months, I hope to be this size. I see

stuff at Eritzia or wherever that I want to fit into eventually. So I'm going to buy it. And what happens is sometimes they lose the weight and go right by that middle size. And so people are like, well, this has tags on it. This is new. And, you know, like, it's eye-opening that when you go to consign stuff, you hardly, like, even new with tags on, you will not get what you think you're going to get. Yeah. And it's like we ascribe more value to things that we own. There's a term for that, which I can't remember right now, but it's because it's mine, it's more valuable. Yeah, rather than a calm mind, which is probably more valuable to us at the end of the day. My disorganized space causes me anxiety, but trying to organize causes me anxiety. It's a crappy cycle.

Someone else is like, I'm in the same loop. Me too, really struggling. It's getting worse in my old age brain. So our house should not be something we need to recover from, right? Gosh, I need a giant Mike for that. Right? So yes. We're thinking, Mike drop. Effie. Mike, drop our house shouldn't be something or we need a break from. Yes. Yes. I can't wait to get to the weekend. I can't wait. Oh, I'm going to take the weekend before school starts to organize my entire life. This is like, I've been saying that since pre-pendemic.

Yeah. I've been stated that. Oh, my goodness. So sometimes, and it sounds like it's self-serving, but you need an extra set of hands or two. You need a dumpster for the real garbage. You need donation. Put a donation bin. If you want to start, if you want a little strategy.

put a, get a couple of boxes from U-Haul, write donation on them, put one in every person's room, and then have a contest. Like, make sure you review it if you've got young kids, but it's like, whosoever box fills up the fastest, get some fries or gets to pick, you know, where we eat at night, right? And it's like small, make small, it shouldn't be a destination. Organizing isn't a destination. It's like a practice. And that sounds scary to people or gross.

just a little bit, just five minute reset at the end of the night or 10 minute. You know, and instead of like, why do you want to take your whole weekend to get organized? Like, wouldn't you rather be doing fun stuff? Yeah. I'm getting there. I'm doing like certain rooms at a time. Like I just, you know, for example, went through my makeup vanity and got rid of stuff and I just have like certain products that I love that make it so much easier for me to get ready in the morning.

I've had the basement. That's it, Gina. You just said it. You said makes it easier for me to get ready in the morning. That was impetus. That's your, that's why you did it. Yeah. And those things I can do.

Now we have this big basement. So we have this like one side is like living space and one side is like our where we put everything. And so we've tasked the kids this summer with organizing it and then either giving away or selling clothes, electronics. I mean, there's stuff that's got boxes. We haven't opened in 10 years there. Right now it's the state of chaos. Like right now it is just, I'm looking and there's stuff everywhere, but I can feel the other side of that. I can feel like, okay, if we can get this done, this is going to be a game changer, just for the

energy in our home. So make it a family thing, like you said, like the body doubling thing. So, okay, guys, today we're going to, you know, clear out the basement. So let's all do this together. We're going to order pizza or whatever you want to order, whatever's fun. Tether it with a reward at the end. So that there's like a character. it at the end of the stick, right? So that it's not just we're going to organize all day and then we're going to fall down exhausted on the couch. We're going to, you know, there's going to be some kind of prize at the end. And that works, believe it or not, it really does. Well, I appreciate you in this conversation. Here's Beryl. I'm so relieved to hear that so many people are exactly the same as I am

and vice versa. So many clothes and so many sizes. I think this is affecting us on a lot of levels. Like I think people aren't as social anymore because for you to come over the way. my house. I have to clean it. It's got to be perfect. I've got to have like everything ready. We don't do like the random. Hey, drop in anymore. And if anyone does, oh my gosh, please excuse my mess. Like, I think it's really getting in our way in ways that we don't even understand. If you are just tuning in, I mean, Effie's credentials are through the roof, specialized training in ADHD coaching. You support clients through everything from moving to downsizing to divorce, menopods, grief, career changes, caring for aging parents.

That's a whole conversation we can have as well as the overwhelm and task paralysis. That can make it difficult to know where to begin. I mean, I can go on and on. People can catch the Netflix episode of Horders. You're on episode 11, 15, season 15, episode 9 and 11. They can also go to your website, organize that.com. and I can also follow you on Instagram where you give great tips.

Organize that with Effie, Terry. Thanks to everyone who's joined us live. I see all your comments and your questions and anyone listening after the fact. Effie, thank you so much. Thank you, Gina. And if anyone has questions, they can message me on Instagram and I'm happy to help people through my DMs.

If anything I can do to help or give resources always available. Hey, I don't know. I'm motivated. I mean, not today, but I'm motivated. Make it fun to get it done. Done. That's going to be our new model around here. Abby, thanks so much. Thanks, everyone.

Have a great day. We'll see you next time. Thank you, everybody. Bye.