The Mel Robbins Podcast - 5 Rules of Money: How to Make It, Save It, & Be Smarter About It

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

In this episode, you’re going to learn the 5 rules of money.Whether you want to build credit, pay off debt, increase your income, or have more money in the bank, this episode is a must-listen. It will surprise you. It will move you. And it will help you live a richer life. Tiffany Aliche is THE money expert. Known as The Budgetnista, she is a New York Times bestselling author who has helped 2 million people just like you save, manage, and pay off massive debt. This is not your usual “make-a-budget-and-stick-to-it” advice. Tiffany’s take on $$ will help you see your money in a completely different way so that you understand how to make more of it and save it with ease. After you listen, you’ll have THE 5 money skills you need to gain financial freedom.For more resources, including links to Tiffany’s book, the links Mel mentions, and Tiffany’s social media platforms, click here for the podcast episode page.Connect with Mel: Get Mel’s free 29-page workbook to make this your best yearWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s newsletter Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend, Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Thank you for hanging out with me. I just love spending time with you, and I also wanted to acknowledge you for something. You are listening to this podcast, and that's really cool because you listen knowing that it could help you make your life better. And I just want to say that's awesome. Go you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for making this podcast one of the most popular podcasts in the entire world. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and one of the world's leading experts on confidence and motivation. And I have a really simple mission, showing up here, talking to you twice a week. I just wanna inspire and empower you with tools and experts.

Today, you're gonna meet an incredible expert who's gonna give you the resources and the strategies that you need to create a better life. And that brings me to today's conversation. The five things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Who is in the chair today? I'm so freaking fired up for this. Tiffany Aliche is here. She is known as the budgetista. And here's what I love about her. She's not only going to break this entire topic of money and your financial life down. She is so amazingly relatable and entertaining.

You're gonna learn so many cool things. You're gonna learn how to increase your savings without depriving yourself, how to get out of debt. You're gonna learn three ways to boost your credit score like that and one of my all-time favorite concepts about money, she calls it paying yourself first and you have to learn this. money. She calls it paying yourself first and you have to learn this.

I want to be very clear about something. I am unbelievably talented when it comes to making money, but I am not a financial expert. In fact, I consider myself to be bad with money. And it may surprise you to hear that I feel that way about myself. And I'll admit to you, I have a lot to learn when it comes to being responsible with money, managing money. And if I dig even deeper, I have a lot of emotion about money. See, I shop when I'm stressed and even though I can pay my bills at this moment in my life, I don't open my bills when they arrive. They literally sit there in a little stack.

I don't know if you have a little stack like in the entryway of your house or on the counter in the kitchen, but I always have like a little stack. I don't know what it is. I kind of want to get to the bottom of it today. And this has been the way that I've been for as long as I can remember. In fact, I can give you some examples. If I go back to college, so I arrive at college and they have that sort of like opening registration forum thing.

There's these tables and clubs you can join. When I went to college, I'm 55 years old, no kidding. There were banks there and they were handing out credit cards. Like literally handing out credit cards as if it was candy to trick or treaters. All you had to do, walk up to a table, fill out a form. You get a credit card, you get a credit card. I'm like, I'll take a credit card.

It was like free money until I graduated with $10,000 in debt. And I had no idea what I'd spent it on. And that led to the next era in my life of financial irresponsibility, in which I would play this game that I called credit card leapfrog, which basically involved Mel Robbins searching for a credit card with a 0% offer and then transferring my balance from my last credit card that I had maxed out to this new one. And I get it. I was an idiot.

And the fact is, though, that what was really going on is I was intimidated by money. And I was also really embarrassed by the reality of my financial situation. And it felt like living in financial quick stand. And when I got into my 20s, my first job after law school was to be a public defender, and I could barely make the ends meet. I mean, I'm talking pay rent, pay for groceries. And so I started putting my living expenses on a credit card. I mean, it got so bad in terms of me being in debt and just constantly being irresponsible

around it that when Chris and I got married 28 years ago, I came into that marriage with five or six credit cards that were completely maxed out. Now, did I tell him? No. I'm being serious. In fact, if I sit here and really think about it, I'm not sure he even knows this today because I kept it secret and I just kind of kept paying the minimum balance. I'm telling you this because I think this is more common than most of us realize. When you get into debt or you are like I was and you are constantly living beyond your means because you're like, okay, I feel terrible. I don't want to sit and look at my bills.

So I'm just going to go out and spend money that I don't have and eventually I'll have money. And so it just creates this level of stress and shame. And it became for me a very toxic cycle that was hard to break out of. And as my story progresses, a lot of you know that when I was in my 40s, my husband and his best friend followed a dream of going into the restaurant business. Like a lot of you who are small business owners, we put up our house as the collateral for that business because that's all the collateral that we had.

That's great when your business is successful, but the market took a turn, the business started to fail. We found ourselves 800 grand and dead. I'm 41 years old, three kids under the age of 10. And let me tell you some. If you think a credit card bill is scary, that is nothing compared to what it feels like to have leans start arriving in the mail saying they've hit your house and bankruptcy notifications.

And so many of you that have heard that story, that was my life 15 years ago, want to know, Mel, oh my God, $800,000 in debt, almost going to lose your house, you were unemployed. How the hell did you get out of debt? And I've never really given the answer because I just outworked it. Like that literally is the answer that I realized nobody was coming. I realized that my husband was doing the best he can to try to keep the business afloat. He hadn't been paid in like six months.

Like if I was gonna figure this out, I had to do something. And what that looked like is working like a freak. I mean, I had two, three, four jobs at a time. I just never stopped. And I started chipping away at the credit card bills and paying off the minimum balances and then making more chunks. And then when I paid them off, I cut them up.

And when I finally got myself out of debt, not mortgage, I still have a mortgage, but like all of that debt that had racked up, the liens on the house, all that stuff, that was like six years ago. I had one rule. Any dollar that came in, 50 cents had to go into savings. Why? Because it was so terrifying to be under that kind of excruciating financial stress and shame.

I never wanted to be in that position again. And I know there's a lot that I can learn, which is why I'm so excited to learn from Tiffany. But I'm also here because I look at my three kids, our adult kids, so 25, 23, and 18. And here's what scares me. I pass this stuff down to our daughters. I see them struggling with their relationship with money. It's not a powerful relationship.

They are scared of it. They want more of it. They don't feel empowered by it. And, you know, one of them is so afraid that she will never have enough money that she's like a squirrel. She works like crazy. She's always working on us. And then she's taking the nut and she's squirreling it away and she's not enjoying it. And then there's our other daughter who's 23 and she is identical to how I used to be. And you know what she does? She does what I do. She shops and she buys something that she can't afford. In fact, the other time I was talking to her on

FaceTime, this was two days ago, she's sitting there eating something that looked weird. I'm like, what is that? She's like, oh, it's Seamos. It's like the next it thing. Everybody's eating at Nellay Mom, which means of course you have to buy it in some organic blah, blah, blah, blah, kind of thing, which means it costs way beyond the budget of a starving artist. And so I know better. I'm like, don't say anything now, because you know, that's not a good thing to do. But I feel like I don't know how to empower my kids to break out of the cycle with money that I was trapped in. And that is why I am so excited when our next guest today said,

Mel, the Mel Robbins Puck, of course I'll get on a plane and fly to Boston and sit down with you and spend time teaching you, Mel and you listening, the five things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Tiffany Aliche is here. And you might have already met her before because she is an expert and star in the Netflix series Get Smart with Money.

Her podcast, Brown Ambition, has won a Webby Award. Her book, Get Good with Money, is a New York Times bestseller. And she has built an eight-figure business. And she runs an eight-figure business, and she has been in the depths of debt. And you know what's interesting is I can almost hear right now all the moms and dads pulling up the share button and sharing this episode to their kids, because you know as soon as we're done editing this, this is going straight to my kids. And if you're listening to this because your mom or dad or aunt or uncle or brother or sister sent this to you, I want to tell you something. You're going to freaking

love Tiffany. And you need to hear it. Tiffany has helped 2 million people just like you save, manage and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. And one of the reasons why I like her so much is she's been there. She understands what it's like to be under crushing debt, to be a victim of a scam, to not be able to pay your bills. And she is living proof that you can learn everything you need to learn. You can literally not only climb out of that debt, you can build a mountain of wealth and she's going to meet you wherever you are. So are you ready to get good with money? I sure am.

Tiffany, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm so excited to be here, Mel. I would love to just jump in and talk about your story with money. And first of all, I wanna offer up that your story is very common. That you are not the exception, but the rules, so many of us,

especially when we're younger, struggle with our financial relationship with money. So like I'm not surprised by some of the things you went through, because I went through them as well. And when you've helped as many people as you've helped, I would imagine that you hear some of the same things, whether it's fear or shame. What is something that you want someone to know?

If they're struggling to pay their bills right now, or they are like Chris and I were, their house has leans on it, they're in a mountain of debt, and they think they've done all the right things, but they're still feeling this level of why can't I get this right? What is your overarching message in terms of what's possible for somebody? Well, one, I want you to know that it is quite possible. If you can hear the sound of my voice,

it means that you are still currently here. Yes. And because you're still currently here, then you can turn around whatever situation or circumstance that you're in. I promise you. Awesome. No matter how much debt you have.

No matter. I mean, when you said 800,000, I said, I see your 800, and I had 300,000. Well, we're gonna get to that. So why don't we get into, I know your background, but why don't you tell everybody how you became the budgetista, like your background? I feel like I was born into the budgetista.

I'm one of five girls and my parents are both immigrants from Nigeria. And my dad especially was really focused on teaching his girls about money. He was an accountant, he has his bachelor's in economics, his master's in finance and we had money lessons at home. Wow. Yeah, so every Thursday we would have like a family meeting usually about chores and

homework but also the family's financial state. Wow. And honestly, when you're a kid, you think like whatever is happens in your home is like that's what happens everywhere. It wasn't until probably middle school. And I'm like, you guys don't, you don't have money class? And oh, because my dad let us know this is normal.

Everyone does this. And I'm like, so you don't do Thursday night in money sessions, got it. Okay. But it was great because, I mean, at the time I didn't think it was great, but it really taught us the basics and not to be afraid of money because we talked about it so openly. Okay.

Like he would leave the light bill on the dining room table and he would say, if the light bill goes down, we could put money into our traveling fund and we can go to Disney. You know what? I'm stealing that right now. Yeah. No, I'm stealing that right now. No, I'm serious because I think as a parent having an 18 year old son, like I come downstairs in the morning and if he's the last one up,

it's like every life in the house is on and you can say it intellectually. But even just that strategy of leaving the bill out and saying if you turn off the lights, this is lower and I can use that money to do more things for you. That's a great tip. Thank you to your dad. Cause one of the things that he understood

and is that kids don't care about your bills. I don't care if your kid is 30 or three. True. They don't care about your bills. What they do care about is what's important to them. And so if you can link your bills to what's important to them, then they will care about that outcome. Match it to what's important.

And then all of a sudden, even for yourself, like money for money's sake is usually not motivation enough. Yeah. You know, matching it to a thing, vacation, less work, more time with family, if you can match it to something that's important, then it's easy to stick to the money goal Interesting so did you like literally graduate from high school and head off into your life? And you were already chipping away saving millions of dollars Well, I was financially quote-unquote perfect until about 2526 because I just did what my parents told me to do

Okay around that age. Gotcha, you know, you start, um, old people call it smelling yourself. When you're like, I'm grown. I can do what I want. And so, I was really good at savings. I went to school for business. Uh-huh. And I hated all my internships because I'm fun. And it was like, I'm dying here.

Yes. And so, I decided I wanted to teach because I love kids. And I thought, I think I want to be a teacher, but I don't want to be broke. How do I reconcile those two things? So I decided, well, if I'm really good with my money, I can take a job that takes less, that pays less. So I did that.

I became a preschool teacher. I bet you were great at that. Oh my God. I was the best. Am I going to lie? Everybody loved Ms. Tiffany. I mean, because I was like 21 and I had a ball teaching. So you are following the advice of your parents, you are working the systems, you are able

to do a job that you love. You are checking all the boxes. What happened? Saving, saving, saving. Okay. I lived home for the first year. Smart. And my dad showed me how to do my own taxes.

So much so that I was so good at budgeting and managing money that I would show the other teachers. The maintenance men would come in during nap time, the parents, I started to have like parent university. So the kids would nap, parents would come in and I would show them, this is how you budget. This is how you save. And that's how the budget Easter was born informally

because I realized, I don't just like teaching kids, I teaching this too, right? You know, that's super cool. You know, and then I want to say about 25 that's when I said I don't actually want your advice anymore because I'm an adult you mean your father I'm an adult I have it I have it And so it was then that I decided to go back for my master's in education Yeah, I thought maybe I'd be a principal. So all of a sudden it would be a great principal too. Well, you know, I don't know because I feel like you put the best people in the classroom if I'm being honest.

And that's when I realized after my master's $50,000 later, I don't like this. Yeah. So I didn't have undergraduate loans. My parents helped and I lived at home part of the time. So I didn't have student loans. Okay, so now you're 26, you got $50,000 in student loans. Yes, and then to around that time I said, you know, I had $30,000 saved because although

I was working and making by then about $50,000 a year as a teacher, I was really good at side hustling. I babysat, I tutored, and so I saved about $30,000. And I said, I think I want to buy something, bought a condo, which was not necessarily bad, except for it was right before the crash, the recession. So we're talking 2007, 2008. Yes, yes.

That was when this all happened to me too. So I bought it in 2006, right? Yep. So I paid $220 for the condo, and I was like, no problem. I've got a good job. And then I thought I want to learn how to like be rich. And I had a friend, AirQuotes, who I thought was rich. Because in your 20s, you think if someone has a nice car, an apartment they're rich.

So I asked him, can you teach me to invest? Not my dad, but you. Can you teach you to invest? He said, sure, you look stupid. I mean, yeah. And so he told me to pull money for one. He said, do you have credit cards? I said, just this one that my dad told me to pay off every month, yeah, yeah. And so he told me to pull money for one. He said, do you have credit cards? I said, just this one that my dad told me to pay off every month,

which I do. He said, no, no, open up a couple more because you can pull money off a credit card. I didn't know. And I was like, sure. So I opened up the cards and he's like, pull. I think I want to say I pulled off $15,000. Yeah.

And it's been such a red flag because I was at the bank. I can literally see the bankers facing, are you okay? So it kept me there for an hour, like grilling me. And no red flag went off like Tiffany. They were worried because they were like- They should have gotten scammed. Well, obviously, yes. But I didn't know that.

And so I, because I was like, we have a contract. Sign this contract with him. Of course he promptly flew the coop. I did not know, yes. Wait, so this was a guy who basically told you to take out credit cards. Yes. Get a cash advance on the credit cards. Yes.

Give him the money and he was going to invest it for me. Oh man. But at the time I just, I was like, but he's rich. He wouldn't steal from me. That's true. You know? Like if somebody is like doing all the things and going out and they're wearing the fancy clothes,

you're like, oh, they know how to make money. Well, he was, this is a serial. I didn't realize he was a serial scammer. That's why he had the money. Because he then took your 15,000 or 20,000 and then like bought more nice clothes and then went on to the next person. Wow.

So I, but I didn't know at first because even thinking about the terms, it was this 15,000 is gonna yield you $2,000 a week for two years. I don't even know, I didn't even really ask what it was gonna be invested in. I was like, that sounds like a lot of money I'm in. So because I thought I'm about to be rich,

I had these credit cards that still, because I had such great credit. Yeah. I had these credit cards that I'd never thought about using credit cards before, but I'm like, since I'm gonna be rich, let me start using them. I ran up another $15,000 on the credit card. Oh my God.

So you've got $30,000 in debt, and it's probably at like 18, 20% interest. I can only imagine. Yes. Holy sucks. So now I've got $50,000 in student loan debt, $220,000 in mortgage, $30,000 credit card debt, literally the year before debt-free. And I was just happy as a clam, toot-a-doot, because you know, like, you're just a little fool, like, hmm, I'm about to be rich.

And then a week or two in, after stricking up all my money on my credit cards, you know, reaching out to him, like, when can I expect my first payment? He was the worst kind of thief. I like just a clean thief, just steal my money and go. He instead would be like, you didn't get the deposit? I sent it, call your bank. So he took me through. So now he's gaslighting you.

I didn't have the word for it then. And I'd be like, bank, did you get the money? And they're like, no. So he did that for a few months. And maybe he was trying to get away because he then moved. So maybe he was hoping that I wouldn't call the police until he could move away. Then he just stopped answering. And I remember I was devastated like, wait, what do I do now?

And so I was like, that's all right. Tiffany, you are a really good saver, a really good budgeter. So you're just going to, you know, babysit tutor and your job and you're just going to pay this day down. You're going to chip away at it and you're not going to tell anybody. And then the recession hit and people were losing their jobs and I said, ooh, not me, cause I'm a teacher.

And then they called us and said, actually you too. Three days before the new school year was set to begin. Oh man. I was like, I don't understand because teachers don't, I mean, you need teachers. Yeah. But it was a nonprofit based school and so they lost their funding because the corporations

that gave us funding, it was a recession for them too. So I'm like, yeah, but school's supposed to start in three days and then in the summer you don't get paid. So I was waiting on that first check to start this new plan. And I remember being like, what do I do now? I owe all this money, I have a mortgage. And so I call my oldest sister Karen,

cause you know, she's mom, junior. I was like, what do I do now? I owe all this money, I have a mortgage. And so I call my oldest sister Karen, cause you know, she's mom, junior. I was like, what do I do? And she was like, honestly, Tiffany, what's the worst case scenario? And I was like, I don't know. I guess I lose my condo. And she's like, well, what would happen then? I'm like, I guess I would have to tell mommy and daddy

and move back home. And she's like, well, why wait? I think you should just do the thing now preemptively. You know? And I was like, so I didn't even tell my parents. I just brought like a lamp home. And then I brought like a blanket and then my mattress. And my dad's like, are you back?

I'm like, yeah. But he didn't know why I was back. Cause he knew it was like a recession and he didn't know that I lost my job. So he just assumed I was trying to save money. But I didn't want him to know all job. So he just assumed I was trying to save money. Right. But I didn't want him to know all the other shenanigans surrounding. So did you lose the condo too?

Yes. It was honestly, you know how some things you're like, it can't get worse. And it was like, hold my beer. Yes. Indeed it can. So I ended up losing my condo to foreclosure. And I tried to keep up with the mortgage until my retirement account was emptied. So now I have no retirement account.

I lost my condo. I still owe all this money and now I'm living back home with two Nigerian parents who think like I'm in 12th grade still. Because by then I was like 28, 29 and they were like, well, I hope you know you have a curfew. I'm like, a curfew? They're like, if you're home, because I had to spend money. Yes.

I had a sister who was still in high school. They're like, we don't want you coming in and out. Like her rules are your rules. I was like, what, you would? Yeah. And so I stayed there till I was 29. And on my 29th going on 30th birthday, I remember laying in my middle school bed

because that was the bed available because the baby sister was in like my cool team, like spot in the basement. And she was like, I don't care if you're home go live upstairs with mommy and daddy. And I remember laying in my middle school bed, tear streaming down the sides of my face and I thought I had more money the last time I laid in this bed when I was like 14 because I babysat, I walked dogs and I was like I had more money than I had maybe like three or four thousand dollars saved then that I do now at 30 and I was calling and I was like, I had more money than I had maybe like three or $4,000 saved then that I do now at 30.

And I was calling myself every loser, like just talking to myself in a way that would never let anyone talk to me. And I was filled with such shame that it sent me into a state of depression because I was like, I'm never going to get out of this. Never, ever, ever. So that's when people come to me. I'm like, I feel it deeply, you know? And so I just, I stayed in that state of depression

for a while until my best friend, Linda, who used to call me all the time was like, you never want to go out. You always sound so sad, what's wrong? And I used to lie to her and she's like, everything's fine, everything's fine. And then one day she's like, everything's not fine, Tiffany. Like what's happening?

So I try to lie to her again and I just broke down into tears. And I was like, oh no, I lost everything. And she was like, that's it. If you knew Linda, you'd be like, because that's Linda. And she was like, so I'm calling you from my mother's couch. She's like, girl, we're all broke.

It's the recession. And I started laughing and she started laughing. And it was like the first laugh I had in a long time. But she was like, have you called any of our other friends? Like literally, Tiffany, we are all broke. Everyone lost their job. Everyone's losing their homes. Like you're actually not special.

I mean, it's sad, but you know, join the club basically. I wish you had been in my circle of friends then because I needed somebody to tell me that. Yes. As you you know we were about to lose the house and like really hard because you think you're the only one. I mean the recession isn't your fault, isn't your job, isn't your fault. The fact that you were targeted by someone who had the intention of scamming you, that's not your fault, and yet you tend to say to

yourself, I did this. Yes. Yes. So what did you do? So one, I realized that, so Linda allowed me to shed some of the shame. Yes. And shame shield solutions. It was like...

Ooh, say that again. I love that. So shame, I I realized shield solutions. And when I was deep in the shame, I couldn't see all the lessons that I did know. That's different. You've always been a great budgeter. You've always been a great saver. You've always been a little side hustler.

Those parts of you are still there. You've you can't see them because you're so steeped in the shame. And shame honestly loves it when you're by yourself. Shame is like, don't tell anybody. It's just me and you. Like stay here with me. The only way to really to ban a shame, I realized was to give voice to it. Was to say, I did a thing. And shame was like, damn, because once she tells the one, then she's going to realize she's not the only one. And then we're not the only ones here. And then I have to leave. And so once I told Linda and Linda's reaction was like, is that it?

Then I told someone else and they were like, OK. And then I realized, oh, I'm really not the only one. And that what I'm going through can actually be helpful to other people because I'm not coming to them as like Pollyanna Perfect. Right. Because they're like, me too. So which is all whispering me too. Before you know, the whispers are loud and we're all like, me too. Now let's get to work.

And so what I did first and foremost is like I said, I took all my credit cards and put it on a balance transfer card. Thankfully before the foreclosure and things hit and my credit score would not allow me to do that. That was one, two, I was like, I can't live here with my parents. I mean, I need like to go.

So I then traded my parents' house for my sister's couch, you know, which I know everyone is not able to do, you know, but I was fortunate enough to be able to sleep on her couch for a while. And I started to look for side hustles that were aligned with either my degree or what I had already been employed as, you know? Yeah.

Because at the time, when you get let go as a teacher right before the new school year, it's not like a ton of teaching jobs lined up. Yeah. Because they have to have a teacher in the classroom already. Yes. So it's not like, oh, you know, like I'm an engineer and engineering jobs are always open. So it's not like they were like, oh, Tiffany, here's the job. So I'm like a while, I wasn't sure if I was going to go back to the classroom. But in the meantime, I'm like, I can tutor, I can babysit. And so I did a lot of that to try to get a little money together. And I did something where I had to give my permission to myself that not everyone's going

to be paid, Tiffany, because you don't have it. And so I had to make a list, which I call my money list, of all of my expenses and look at them and say, of this money list, which one are your health and safety bills? Meaning the bills that you have to pay to maintain your health and your safety. And I was like, Verizon, it ain't you, girl. Is that you? But it's like, I have asthma. I was like, you're going to need that pump.

Yes. Yes. And things that I must have. And so everyone else, I was scared, but when you have, like, I always tell people, get yourself a Linda. So Linda used to sit next to me on the couch and we would open up mail together. And so sometimes I'd be like,

especially if you get like a pink or a red envelope, you know, it's like, so then I wouldn't open it. I would slide it to Linda and she would open it and she would read it out loud. She'd be like, okay, this one says, oh, this one's not so bad, you owe. So that helped a lot because I was never gonna open, you know, those letters.

Well, can we stop right there? We're gonna get to the five categories of taking control of your financial life in just a minute. But can we just hover for a second on this moment of opening bills? Yeah. You have helped two million people. Talk to me about why it is so hard

to open your bills or look at your bank statement. Because there is an African saying that says, fear makes the wolf bigger than he is. Oh. And so your fear is enhancing what's on the other side. It's rarely ever as big as you think. You know, you're like, I know on the other side of this door,

the wolf is huge, he's gnarling, he's foaming at the mouth, he's gonna attack me. You know, and meanwhile, if you actually open the door, it's like a wolf puppy that you could have handled. But the longer you wait, that wolf will eventually grow up and become the thing you're afraid of. Hmm. Thank you for saying that wolf will eventually grow up and become the thing you're afraid of. Hmm.

Thank you for saying that about paying your bills. And you know, here's where I just wanna make sure as you're listening to this conversation that you realize that this is just part of the story. Yeah. Because Tiffany, you then went from that unbelievably low moment to becoming one of the most popular financial educators and experts out there in today's world.

And you've helped more than two million people who were in the position that you were in to then go on to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, your story alone is a testimonial to how absolutely anyone, regardless of where you are, can start today to take control of their finances. Yeah. And in that regard, you have five major categories that you're going to help us master.

And you have so many tips, so many tricks, so many different mindset flips. We all need to know this stuff. We all need to know this stuff. We all need to take control of our finances. And that's exactly what we're going to do when we come back. So don't you dare go anywhere. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. I'm so glad you're still here.

I'm so glad that you're spending time listening to this because there's no doubt in my mind this episode is going to help you create a better life because you're learning from none other than Tiffany Aliche. Now, you've probably seen her on Netflix's Get Smarter With Money series. Maybe you've read her two New York Times bestselling books, but just know she has helped two million people who are just like you to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And now, you know what you and I are going to do? We are going to jump into tips and tricks that you need to know in five specific categories. And I'm so excited. I'm sitting here on this metaphorical walk shoulder to shoulder with you. I've already confessed all of the things I've done wrong.

I can't wait to learn about this. And we're going to start with one of these topics that I hate when it comes to money. This is number one of the five things you're going to help us master, Tiffany, and it is budget. Yes. It's in your name, budgetista. I hate that word budget. I hate that word budget. I feel like budget is a punishment. It's a diet. I don't want to be on a budget, Tiffany. What do I need to do? Why do we need a budget and let's talk budget?

So I want you to think about a budget the way what I say is like, how you think about like your mom, right? So you've got three kids, right? Yeah. And so if like, say your son's like, oh, right? So you've got three kids, right? Yeah. And so if like say your son's like, oh, when he's little, you know, mom, can I have dessert? You'd say yes after you have dinner.

Or if your daughter says, mom, can I go outside to play? Yes, when you do your homework, you know? Or, you know, mom, can we go on vacation? Yes, if we lower this, you know, the light bill. So your budget is like your mom. She's there to say yes, when, if, after. So it's really a say yes plan, but one that's safely implemented

so you can maintain the thing that you want, right? So you could call it a money list. That's what I usually start with because people hate that name. I like the name money list. What does a money list mean? A budget. Okay, I love this reframe because I like the name money list. What does a money list mean? A budget. Okay, I love this

reframe because I hear the word budget and I hear no in restriction. And you're saying no. That the budget is how you say yes to what's important to you. Yes. It's not there actually to tell me no. It's there to find the yes in the safest way possible. So for somebody hearing you say that and they're like, but I've never made a budget or I've never stuck to one. I don't know what my budget should be. Like where do you begin? Step one is to write everything down just the words of what do I spend money on? Don't think about the month, just in general.

So it's like, oh, the kids, oh, credit card, oh, grooming, going out. Like just, I want you to just write the words. Don't think about the money, just words. Okay. So that's the first part. Step one. Yes. Then step two is now you say, these words on my money list, how much am I spending approximately

monthly? Some stuff you'll know, like your mortgage or your rent, some stuff you might not be sure, go pull out your bank statement and see on average the last few months how much you're spending on groceries or eating out or grooming. Electricity or water. Yes. Or any of those things that you don't even really think, oh my God, I got that bill. Exactly. So then that's within a month frame on average, right? So that's step two. Then step three is to write down how much you make

on average every month from all of your areas. So maybe you get alimony, maybe you get child support, maybe you have a job, whatever that is, how much are you making monthly? Then you add up, step four, you add up how much you're spending monthly and subtract it from how much you're making monthly. I call that the tears and tissue step.

Cause usually people get there and they're like, can I have a tissue? Yeah. And should you do this with a friend? Yes. Should we call Linda? Yes, get yourself a Linda. So literally, so when I used to do one on ones, we would do all of that. And people would be like, OK.

And then I would literally just grab a box of tissues and just put it here because I'm like, it's about the waterworks. It's common. It's common. They add it up. I remember it was a nurse, I'll never forget. I'll call her B and I came to her house and it was beautiful condo.

And so we did that step and she started crying and then I started crying because baby, I'm a baby. And she was just like, I didn't realize how much over I was spending. And she said, as a matter of fact, I can't even afford the air condition. That's all, can I turn it off? And I was like, yes.

Yes. So we sat with the fan on because she just turned And she said, as a matter of fact, I can't even afford the air condition. That's all. Can I turn it off? And I was like, yes. So we sat with the fan on because she just turned on the air condition because I was coming over. So I was like, turn off the AC. A fan is fine. That tears and tissue step allows you to see what do you need to do now? And so let's say you've done that, right? And you've made the money list and you see what's coming in and what's coming out.

You're like faced with the reality. Yeah. Tears and tissues. Yes. And you see that you are outspending every month, what's actually coming in. What is the next step? The next step is I want you to categorize your expenses before you get to slash and dash, you know? Because that's what people want to do.

I won't eat out. I won't. Yeah, I'm never going to eat again. Never going to turn the lights on in this house. Get the candles. So I'm like categorize your expenses into three categories. One, I want you to write a B next to all the bills on your list. So bills are, if you don't pay it, someone's going to come knocking on your door and say,

where's my money? Right? So put a B next to all those things. And give me an example. are if you don't pay it, someone's gonna come knocking on your door and say, where's my money? Right? So put a B next to all those things. And give me an example. I know that sounds like a basic question, but is your mortgage a bill? Yes, mortgage is a bill. Rent, car note, your credit card, student loans.

So if you don't pay, you're likely to be sued. Think about that. Gotcha. Like when you're like standing at Walmart or Sephora and you're like, yeah, like 10% off this. And then you're like, oh wait, that's a credit card. That's a bill. Got you. Like when you're like standing at Walmart or Sephora and you're like, yeah, like 10% off this. And then you're like, oh, wait, that's a credit card. That's a bill. Mm-hmm. Got it. Okay. So a B next to all your bills. Okay. And then, and those are really like fixed expenses. So that way you understand, right? And then I want you to put a U in front of any B that fluctuates based upon your usage. Oh, I love that. So

I call these like the U stands for usage or utility. So your student loan does not have a U. Your mortgage or rent does not have a U. But the water. Water. Electricity. So your usage. Yes. The data on your phone.

Yes. And so it's important to separate those two because I want you to, you'll see that I want you to understand the level of control you have on these expenses and whatever is not a B or UB everything else is a C. C stands for cash or choice meaning that you have full choice of how you spend here. So grooming might be leftover, groceries might be leftover. How much eating out with friends? Yes and so entertainment and so now before you get to slashing I I want you to ask yourself, where's most of your money going?

For many people, most of their money might be going to the Bs and UBs. But for some people, it's actually all the Cs. So then we have to identify, do you have a don't make enough issue or spend too much issue? And so if most of your money is going to the Bs and UBs, you might not make enough.

So it's not about slashing because these are your bills, you know? But if most of your money is going to your Cs, your choices and your cash expenses, then you probably have a spend too much issue. So now we need to slash. You know, because entertainment and grocery and all those things where your money is going.

Cause what I find is that frugal people want to get more frugal when things are tied. I'm like, that's not the answer. Right. You know, that instead I want you to put your energy toward learning how to earn more if all of your money is going to your bills. Because we're cutting the mortgage, what are we cutting? That's true. You know, one of the things that I worry about and I'd be curious to hear your perspective

is that you and I both had the experience of being in college, and it's that opening week, and literally at the opening registration fair, there were banks with credit card tables. You get your Snickers bar when you sign up for one, and then it's free money. But I worry a lot about the fact that in today's world, particularly for people who are in their 20s and 30s, that social media has become like shopping with a click. And you and I had to leave our house to go spend money back in the day. And when I think about TikTok or Instagram,

every other fricking suggested thing has a shop now button. And stuff gets sent to your house. And have you seen a big increase, because you've been doing this for a while, in people in the spending category, that spending has gotten so easy because of social media. It's always in your face. You always see what you're missing out on. There's an influencer that has the product for free who's like, this changed my life. It's 1130 at night. So do you see

a spike in this? Absolutely. Overconsumption is the new way. We all have so much that we don't need. I mean, even I sometimes, I'm like, Tiffany, you do not need like another, like you don't even vacuum. I'm like, but that one is so cool. You know, and I'm like, like this is influential who are following who I love her. Cause it's so aesthetically pleasing. But you know the ones that we're like,

everything in the kitchen is aesthetically pleasing. Yeah, so this is these Amazon shops. So they're like, click through to my Amazon thing. So I got this all for free, but I'm gonna make money on you buying it. A container for the container. Yes. It's like, well, who wants to eat cereal out of a cereal box? We want to eat out of a aesthetically pleasing glass container.

Yes. Like do I need an aesthetically pleasing? You don't. Yes. You know, so it is really hard. So that's why I don't believe in leaning so heavily on discipline when it comes to financial like stick to it. What don't believe in leaning so heavily on discipline when it comes to financial Like stick to it. This you know, what do you believe in that? I believe automation automation automation

That's the new discipline that if we can put systems and automations in place It will help to safeguard you because you're human. Yeah, so we're not here to fight against your humanness, right? You know, I'm like for budgeting for example, I do this thing where I call it budget without a budget You go to HR you you say, hey, HR or payroom, I want to split my money before I get my money. And so what that looks like is that, and most places can do this, I'm not a huge company and we're capable, there are four counts, two checking, two savings. Wait, so everybody needs four accounts?

Ideally give or take. I mean, it depends on where you are, but this is the ideal. Two checking, two savings. So checking one is kind of like your spending account. This is attached to your debit card, right? So most people have this account, but everything just gets dumped there. Yes.

So that's the account you keep it. The second account is a checking account, which is your bills account. And so I want you to separate your bill money from your spending money. And does it cost money to have two different checking accounts with your bank? Well, the good thing is if you have direct deposit into those, most banks will waive that fee. So that's why you're going to do it from, like, I have payroll direct deposit into those

accounts. Oh, so you at your company level, you basically say X percent of my paycheck is going to go into checking account number one, which is where my bills are, or spending. And then the other percentage, do you have a particular percentage in mind? Well the good thing is people ask me all the time, I'm like, well we don't have to guess, money list is right there saying, hello, we know how much you need to put in here. Be kind of embarrassing to walk into HR and be like, could you put $1500 in checking account one and $10?

Usually it's a form, so you don't have to tell all your business. But still, you can see how that then creates an automation that helps you stay in the lane. So the key is with that checking account, the second one, you are going to call the bank and say, I do not want a debit card. I did not know that you could just opt out of a debit card. You can. But what do I do if I need cash? Because you have your spending account.

Because why are you swiping away your bill money? Because I don't need a debit card. Now for the bills account? For the bills account. Yes. I've never had two checking accounts. Yes, yeah, okay. I'm sitting here thinking, my freaking money goes right into that thing.

Yes, so if you, that way it keeps your bills account, this is why I say you don't need as much discipline. It keeps that money. I am actually gonna do this. Yeah. I think this is so empowering because I have had such the philosophy of just put your head down.

Work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work,

work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, automate your bills. And if not, you could certainly manually pay them. You could just say every two weeks I'll sit down and manually pay my bills. I love this advice. You are so good at what you do.

Thank you. No wonder you've helped millions and millions and millions of people. And remember the other two savings, I want you to put those savings accounts not at your regular brick and mortar bank because they're going to pay you.000000. Okay, so where do we put our savings? And why do we put those savings accounts, not at your regular brick and mortar bank, because they're gonna pay you.000. Okay, so where do we put our savings?

And why do we need two savings accounts? Well, I like, again, because I want you to separate so you can see. Okay. You know? And so this is like that kind of like what I said, automate, automate, automate. You don't have to be as disciplined.

Right. So savings one at a high yield savings account. Typically these are online only banks, you know? They pay right now currently my 4% a little bit more. And so you're going to have one... Now, when you said online-only bank, I had a visceral reaction because I immediately thought about the dude that scammed you out of money for some reason. You know, I'm like, how do you know that an online bank is a reputable bank to put your money in.

Because that's me. FDIC and short. FDIC and short. But how would you know that? Cause everybody can copy that little icon. So no, cause that would be against, I mean, I mean, if they want to go to like under the jail by the federal government.

So you could honestly, Google search, there are like- We're also going to link everybody. You know our resources are robust. And today there will be a lot of information from the budgetista. And Tiffany will have stuff so that you can go to her resources and understand what's reputable, what's not and so...

So I list a bunch. So with both of my books, Gek of Money and Made Whole, I list some of the banks that I like. You know what else I love about this approach, because you mentioned Target, and we have a huge global audience. So just think about your favorite even place

where you're gonna pick up your prescriptions or your local kind of pharmacy type store. When I walk in there, it's as if I have walked on to a game show. This was even when I had no frickin' money. And it's like you walk through the doors and I'm like, oh, I feel like I need some hair rubber band things. And yeah, I need those little cotton things.

I have that shit in my drawers. Like I don't know why I... There's something about the psychology of that. So in your model, when you do your money list and the B's and the U's, and I walk in there and I don't have a debit card, I've only got the debit card for what I can spend. Yes, because all your money is literally

squirreled away someplace else. You have a savings account for emergencies, you have a savings account for goals. I wanna buy a house, I wanna buy a car, I wanna invest in the market. We're gonna separate them because you don't wanna spend your account for goals. I wanna buy a house, I wanna buy a car, I wanna invest in the market. We're gonna separate them because you don't wanna spend your emergencies on goals. That's your emergency account is like your seat belt,

you know, like your safety belt. Yeah. And so that's why you have the two savings and you let it earn interest. So if you had those four accounts, you use your money list to figure out how much money you wanna place into those four accounts. Then all you have to worry about is,

especially if everything's automated, the money lands, it splits before you get it, bills pay themselves, savings is safe, and when I go swiping, it's not my savings, it's not my emergency savings, it's not my bill money. So, I can rest assure without having to be so disciplined because I just set it up one time. And so, it's just one of my favorite ways to budget without budgeting like the hardcore, you know, my journal and a diary and I'm not doing all that.

Yes, yes, you do it once, set it and forget it. And now it's aligned with what you want. Do you have a guideline in terms of when somebody's making their money list, we got the B's, we got the U's, we got the C's, we've now got our four different bank accounts, the two checking, the two savings. So if you followed all this advice and you kind of look at what it costs for you to pay

for your life, all of the stuff that's going out in all of these categories you've just taught us about, what do you think the percentage should be? If you look at the income coming in, what percentage is your day-to-day expenses? So I would say ideally, ideally, ideally, if you can live off of 70% of your income, that's ideal. Like you might be at 99, that's okay. But this is what you're working toward. No more than 70%. Okay. Obviously you make more, it might be even lower. Like I think at this point I might live off of 20 or 30%. Okay. At one point I was living off of 200%.

But 70%. Meaning you were in debt. Meaning you were spending more. Way more. So this is not shame. This is just like, I'm working toward this. This is what your ideal is. So 70%.

So that would be what's in your spending account and what's in your bills account. That would equate for 70% because that's a living off of money. You know, I love that you just offered up though this hope because what you just said to somebody who is in the place that you and I have both been in,

which is your life costs way more than you make and you are also dealing with a mountain of debt that there is hope for you. So if you make this money list, which is step one, your B's, your U's, your C's and you then look at it and you're like, oh I'm screwed. What Tiffany is saying to you is that the goal is to move from a negative position to a position where 70% of what's coming in covers your life. And the other 30% goes to savings and investing and mm-hmm.

Awesome. Yeah. I cannot wait to go home and make a money list. Now there are four other topics, Tiffany, that you're going to help us master. And so I don't want you listening to us to go anywhere. You're about to learn her amazing tips to increase your credit score. You'll learn about something that Tiffany calls

dreamscaping, which is a critical part of you creating a plan and finding hope and enthusiasm to take all these advice and apply it. And what I love about Tiffany's approach, and I'm sure you're loving it too, is you're going to hear her say, you don't need discipline. You just need to understand these tricks.

Stay with us. Welcome back, it's your friend, Mel. We are so glad that you're here. And by we, I mean me and Tiffany Aliche. She's also known as the budget Nista. You're falling in love with her as you listen to her. She's been featured on Netflix. She's a New York Times bestseller. And more importantly, her genius, and you're experiencing it right now, she's helped 2 million people save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And here she is showing up here for you,

giving you relatable world-class strategies in the five key areas that you need to understand when it comes to taking control of money. So you and I have covered budget with Tiffany. There are four more to go and up next, debt. What do you do when you go through the money list and what you see is a lot of debt? What are the steps? Well, for debt, you have to... That's another kind of like list. So I just call it... Just honestly like the debt list. We have to just get a picture. Like what's happening here? Yes. Who do you owe? This is what's going to go on your debt list. Who do you owe? How much do you owe?

When does it do? What's the interest rate? What's the status? I know, this is why you wanna have your bestie in bed. Here we go. Here we go. I'm thinking about my friend Jody. Jody, pull up a chair, let's go. Right. Exactly.

So yeah, so you, because you have to get a pay, this is actually, sometimes it could be a little harder than the money list. Oh, I would think so. Because I was, I, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking to myself,

I haven't even done this for myself. To see who do I owe. Yeah, like what is my mortgage at right now? And how many more years is it going to be? And what are, what is the car loan that I have? And how many more years is it? And what is the interest rate? Yeah, so just knowing what those things are.

And like I said, don't do it alone. You can literally have a party. It could be like, you know, we're not spending money. There's no just knowing what those things are. And like I said, don't do it alone. You can literally have a party. You could be like, you know, we're not spending money. There's no ice cream. There's nothing. It's a potluck. You know, it's like, you could just be like, where are you and a group of friends that sit down and say, we're going to do our debt lists, you know?

And so just knowing where you are, so now you can start to prioritize who's getting paid and when. So I have a few methods that I really like. Let's talk about it. One, there's a snowball method. And so this is when you pay the lowest balance debt first. So you're gonna look at all of your debt and line it up from lowest balance that you owe, right?

And then to the highest debt that you owe. And if you're someone who is emotionally charged by your debt and need you to have early success, you're going to pay the minimum to everybody else, but that lowest bill is going to get the bulk of the money that you have available. And you're going to know what that is. This is why that money list is so important. Because it's like, where am I going to get the money? Let's look at the money list.

How are you making a little more right now? Are you able to spend a little less? That money that you're able to squeeze from your budget, it's going to go to that lowest debt. So let's just say you owe $200 to Granny. Yeah. And you're giving her $100 a month. Right.

So now it's like, OK, that $100 a month now rolls over like a snowball. Yes, because now that debt's paid to Granny. Yes. And now we go to the next one. Yes, the next debt gets its minimum, which it was already getting, but it gets that lowest debt's minimum, the first one, and that extra money from your money list. So now all of a sudden,

it's getting like three payments in one. So you're cooking with grease now, you know? And when that's paid off, you roll over that full amount to the third. And what's so great is as the snowball rolls down the hill, it collects snow minimums along the way. So by the time you get to the biggest debt, you have the most amount of money, but it didn't actually take any additional money out of your budget because you've collected minimums that you were already paying.

Oh, so I'm gonna try to translate that. So if your credit card bill has a minimum of $50, and you've just been paying the 50 and paying the 50, that means you're not really chipping away at the balance. So as you use this method and you get the lowest paid off, you don't have to pay that $50 anymore. And then you go to the next one. Well, you take that 50 from that one.

But it goes to the next one. Got you. And so you've accumulated all these 50s. Yes. And by the time you get to the big one, you might have $200 extra in the cash flow. On top of the minute, yes, yes. So that would actually hurt your, you're not coming out of pocket anymore

because you've been paying all these minimums. Yes. You know, and so it's a great way for people who need that early success and don't want to tackle the big bill right away. Amazing. So that's the snowball method. The avalanche method is when you're like,

forget all that, I'm logical. I want to attack the debt with the highest interest rate, the most expensive debt first, because interest rate is the fee you pay for what you owe. So the more you owe, the more the interest rate is gonna affect what you have to pay. So you're gonna line your debt up from the highest interest rate to the lowest interest rate

first and you're gonna attack highest interest rate debt first. So there's snowball, avalanche, and I call this the tsunami method. Is this is for people who really get emotionally overwhelmed and you line up your debt by how it affects you emotionally. Oh. You know, because let's honor the fact that some of us really need to navigate from that

place like which debt is causing you the most stress. It's like the tsunami is coming over you. And it's like I have to pay my grandmother back because I feel so bad. And then next, it's really my mortgage. And then next, it's this bike that I bought. And then you see what I mean? So with that method, you're lining up the debt

from most stressful to least stressful and paying it off in that order. But either way, you're collecting the minimums amount along the way. You pay off the debt, you roll over their full payment to the next one. Pay off that debt, roll over all those payments to the next one. So that still stays the same. It's just the order that it depends on what you need in order to be successful.

We must have similar grammars because I wouldn't want to have to face my grandmother either. They're knocking on the door complaining again at the dinner table. So you have this concept that I absolutely love. That was budget that we've talked about. We've now covered debt. The third concept that you talk about is saving. How do you save, especially if you don't feel like you have money to save because you are just making the ends meet or not even? And sometimes you can't.

I know people don't want to say that, but I'm like, I remember when it was like, I had a savings account because it was free, but that account was like, hello? Is it me? You're looking for it. It didn't have anything in it. I mean, because that's life sometimes. Yeah. And I just remembered, but I opened it because sometimes you do a thing not for where you

are currently, but for where you want to go. There you go. And so I opened up a savings account because they're typically free. And I said, one day I'll be able to put something into you. And so for the first year or so when I was paying down all that credit card debt and like making little money here and there, the budget needs to start to do a little better. And I was like, I remember I was able to say $5 a month and I put it in there not for the five, but five was proof if I could do five, one day I'll was proof. If I could do five, one day I'll do 10. If I could do 10, one day I'll do 100.

If I could do 100, one day I'll do 1,000. And so it was a placeholder for that one day. But so in the beginning, it's okay to acknowledge that you might have these four accounts and those two stay empty for a while because there's not enough money. I love that you said that because I can absolutely remember years of my life where there was

a savings account attached to my checking account. I could not afford to put anything in there. Literally be like $27. And I made friends with the tellers. And so when you kind of get that, they penalize you for having, and oh, I'll just wait that for you, no problem. But just seeing that still someday. Yes.

Someday. Someday, I will get it in there someday. Dreamscaping. Okay. Let's talk about dreamscaping. Yes. What is dreamscaping? So this is where I totally made up as preschool teachers are apt to do.

And I just thought, like, you know, landscaping, this is when you design the outside of your home to be beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. And so I'm like, well, why can't we do that with our dreams? Why can't I? Dreamscaping means that like, I think of the most beautiful, aesthetically pleasing, big, expansive life that I wanna live. And I was a big daydreamer when I was a kid.

So I got like, I was a kid in class, talks too much and daydreams. And so I, but I love daydreaming because it allows me to like really like go into the future and say, this is what life is gonna look like for me. Live there for a little bit and then bring back, bring back that feeling here and it says, okay, this is what you need to do for that to be life.

And so with dreamscaping, I identify a time in the future that what I want to see. So maybe it's the December 31st version of yourself this year. Yes. Maybe it's you five years from now, 10 years from now, whatever that is. And then I ask myself, holistically, how do I want life to go? Not financially, holistically, like how long do I want my hair to be? Like, what do I want to live? What do I want to drive? What kind of foods am I into? I'm just imagining my full, complete life.

Where have I traveled to? You know, that kind of thing. And so that's the second part of dreamscaping is really dreaming your full life. Then the third part is to find a guide asking for help. So if there's someone who there's part of your dream that they're living it, you know, maybe they're on social media and you follow their social media,

you know, do they do podcast interviews? Do they have a book that's come out? Do you know them personally? Like don't go all this alone. Why, you know, the fastest way from where you are to where you wanna be usually is through someone else. Right. So I'm literally studying like, oh, I love the way Mel does that.

Yeah. Okay. So I'm just, I'm going to read all the things you've written and watch all your shows and, and, and listen to all your podcasts so I can get a guide from you about what does that look like. And then fourth, I create a plan based upon what I've learned about this is where I want to be. This is what I'm learned from Mel of how she got there. Let me create a plan that's focused but flexible Because I'm not you. So it's like a you know, there's like this framework there

Yeah, but a lot of flexibility in there like oh well Mel did this but I'm gonna do it like this, right? You know, that's why I create this plan But as I work the plan the last and to me one of the most important things is then find community That like it's so big for me. I started the budget needs to because if not of the most important things is then find community. That like, it had so big for me, I started the budget in ESA because if not for Linda, where would I be? You know, that like, I don't care if community is one person or a thousand people or two million people,

find community and work the plan within that community. So you can have accountability, you can have people to cheer you on in a place to vent and say you're scared, you know, and to see yourself in other people. So if you do those five things, that's the five steps to dream-scaping. Well the other piece that's powerful about that is when I look at all of your advice, it is empowering you to take your emotions out of it and to align the actions that you're

taking with the kind of person that you want to become. I love that. You ever think to yourself, so this is something I remember I learned in therapy when I was talking to my therapist, she said, like I've never smoked, I have asthma, so I'm like, I do not want to take myself out of here. And so, and so she said, Tiffany,

do you consider yourself like a non-smoker? And I was like, no, because it doesn't even resonate because I just don't smoke. I'm not, that's just not part of like who I am. So I don't even associate smoker, non-smoker. I just never anybody who smoked because I align with I am who I say I am. And so like that should be the aim for all that we do. So it's not like, oh, am I an overspender or underspender? It's like, well, no, you just, you aligned with,

this is, I show up, I am who I say I am, that my goal is to be the person who I'm not worried about over-underspending. I spend in a way that's aligned with the way of the life that I wanna live. Do you see what I mean? Not a time to get labeled. I do, I do.

And I feel very empowered as I'm listening to you I want to live. Do you see what I mean? Not a time to get labeled. I do. I do. And I feel very empowered as I'm listening to you about going and creating a money list and going and doing the debt list and just really getting a very clear picture for myself, for myself, so that I can decide in the dreamscape model. Well, what is the story? I tell about myself to myself in this category Because clearly if I wanted to get good with money Then I've got the expert right here and I follow your steps and I can easily learn it And so can you as you're listening to this you have this concept that I freaking love

About paying yourself first. What does that mean? So that means I want you to ask yourself four questions before you spend any money. And those questions are, do I need it? No. Do I love it? Yes.

Do I like it? Do I want it? So need it, love it, like it wanted. And so they show you that like needs are most important. Then your loves, then your likes, then your wants. And so when I'm spending money, those are the quadrants, I try to stay on the half of needs and loves. So a need is something you must have in order to be okay. So bills, those UBs and Bs, those are your needs. You know, right? Now loves are different.

Loves are something that is going to bring you joy over a year from now. You know, and so that's different for everyone. For some people, it is that haircut. For some people, it is, you know, that amazing dinner. For some people, it's travel. For some people, it is that dress. So there's no judgment there.

Just a year from now, will this thing still generate joy for me? So deep joy are the things that we love. And then likes, which is next, are temporary joy. So that's something about six months from now. You know, I go, it's still cute. I remember. You know, but a year later you might be like, wait, where is that shirt that I had?

You know? And then wants are literally the opposite. Just instant gratification. Yes, that's the shop now on Instagram. Yes. So when you are spending money, I'm not here to tell myself no. So I, for example, this is a, well, I always travel, but this year in particular, I really want to go, I've never been to Johannesburg and I want to go.

Oh yeah. And there's this like really cute travel group. There's like 15 women and it's like Johannesburganna'sberg, Namibia, Botswana. Sounds like right. And so it's not a little bit of money, obviously, as you can imagine. And so when I was deciding whether or not to do it, I said, Tiffany, is this a need? No, it's not food, shelter, clothing, water. Is this a love? Will you remember this trip a year from now? I said, absolutely freaking lutely. And then of course you look at your budget, can it allow it? You know? So what that means is that if I don't have enough of that like or want, so what? I said, absolutely freaking lutely. And then of course you look at your budget, can it allow it?

So what that means is that if I don't have enough of that like or want, so what? Right. Because if I get another stinking T-shirt from Target, like what are we talking about? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think everybody, even when you're struggling, even when you're struggling, I think most of us

can look around whatever room we're sitting in in our apartment and be like, I have too much stuff. Yes. Why am I, and I do think that there is this rise in shopping and consumerism because you don't have to leave your house. Yes. You do not need to leave your house. They pull up and drop it on your doorstep. Yes. And you just constantly, it's like pulling the, the, the, the, the, the, the, I'm, if you're watching this on YouTube, you see me doing it,

but it's like you're at a slot machine. Yes. For the lever. Pull. Pull. But if you really want to pay yourself first, then you try as much as possible to stay in the much, in the need and the love category. I love that. Because that means your money is meaningfully spent. You know what I mean?

Yes. Like meaningfully. So I'm not here to tell myself, no, I'm here to say as yes as much as possible to my needs and my loves. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. What is your biggest hot take on saving money?

My biggest hot take on saving money is there is a cap for how much you should save. Like you can actually over save. What? Yes. I've been an over saver where I had so much money saved because there is a point where it's like no more than a year's worth of emergency savings is necessary for savings.

I mean, at one point- You're not talking about investing. You're just talking about savings. Yes, save it, yeah. Okay, great. So like, you know, like, depending, so my mom was a nurse before she retired. Yep.

Right? So three months was enough for her. You know, my sister's an engineer, six months is fine. Me as an entrepreneur, I feel more comfortable with the year, but anything above that, you're actually losing money because savings is not really growing. You know, it should be put to work. The purpose of, I want people, cause people get mad about savings. They're like, I want all my money to be put to work,

but every belt is not meant to be a fashion Gucci belt. Some belts are safety belts. It's not for fashion. That's right. Your car. Yes. Has a buckle belt in it. I'm sorry. It's not monogrammed. Yes. Right. The purpose, the intention is for safety. And that money, although it would be nice if savings grew astronomically,

that money is just for safety. I love that. And then the excess that no more than a year should be put to work absolutely. For some people, the excess is anything above three months. Some people, anything above six months, I say no more than a year. So too much savings is actually detrimental. There's like the law of diminishing returns. One glass of water, so good for you.

Four glasses, so great. Forty, you're gonna drown. Yes, that's the first time I've ever heard that. And I think for those of us that has lost your money or nearly lost your house or like, you don't ever want to be in that. And so I probably have too much in terms of savings, but it's just sitting somewhere where the market can't affect it,

the housing recession can't affect it, but it's not doing anything. Yes. And money that's not being put to work is losing. Okay. So you're calling me a loser for everything? No. No. So we've covered budget debt savings.

And now let's talk about number four, which is credit. And this is a hugely popular topic with your audience, with everybody. How can you improve your credit score? So credit, if your issue is credit, congratulations, it's the easiest thing to fix. So I want you to just, whoosh, because credit is the thing that people worry about the most.

But quite honestly, it's the easiest to fix. Credit is tips and tricks. Oh my God, tips and tricks. Tips and tricks, it's the easiest to fix. Credit is tips and tricks. Oh my God. Tips and tricks. Here we go. Tips and tricks. Right? So first thing to understand that there are multiple categories that affect your credit.

It's 35% of your score is what your payment history is. Okay. Right? And so like, do pay the people on time? Do you play at least a minimum? Well then, 35% of your score? You're good. Handled. 30% of your score, you're good. Handled.

30% of your score is going to be amounts owed. So get your payments down. Everybody, that would be the debt list and the money list, okay? So if those two things alone is 65% of your score. So if you just like concentrate on getting your debt down and if you automate that bills account, do you see how it all comes together?

Yes, I do. Yeah if you automate that bills account, do you see how it all comes together? Yes, I do. Yeah, so automate that bills account, 65% of your score is being positively affected. There's other things to consider with your score is they look at length of credit history. Okay. Right, so length of credit history is just how long have you had access to credit

and have you been using it? Now, this is important because think about like, so you said your son is 17, is he driving? He's 18, yes. Yes, he's driving. Right, so if your son about like, so you said your son is 17, is he driving? He's 18, yes, yes, he's driving. Right, so if your son said, oh mom, can I borrow your car, I've never been in an accident. You know what, interesting, cause you just started. Right, and then let's just say like,

you have any siblings? Do I? Yeah, I have a brother. So your brother says, sis, can I borrow your car? Yeah, I've never been in an accident. So you've got two drivers, never been in an accident, one just got their license, one that's had it for years. It's not the same. It's the same for credit. Length of credit history says like, yes, so you might not have any bad marks on your credit, but

you're so inexperienced, you are a bad driver because you have not driven much. Got it. Yeah. So they call it a thin file when you have hardly any credit. So no credit is bad credit. Gotcha. Just like no driving experience is a bad driver. Gotcha. So you have three ways that you can boost your credit score pretty quickly, even up to 100 points.

Yeah. So my favorite way is I learned this from a debt lawyer. He was like, because after I lost everything in my credit score, I learned the embarrassing way. I was teaching classes because I told you I was like, as I did my way and I'm going to teach, my credit score at one learned the embarrassing way. I was teaching classes because I told you, I was like, as I did my way and I'm gonna teach. My credit score at one point was 802. So in class, I was showing people how to look up

your credit score. So I look up mine thinking clearly it's still in the 800s. It was a 530? A room full of people, I'm looking at the, and I was like, luckily it said Tia Lichet and I have a sister named Tracy. I was like, I logged into Tracy Tia Lyche and I have a sister named Tracy. I was like, I locked it to Tracy's account. Let me just Can you imagine I was like wait, is that a five?

And then I was like anyway, let's talk about it. I had no idea because I'd not checked So I was like how do I raise yes this 530 because I had an active foreclosure because I lost my house Yes, I had that credit card debt that was just mounting. Yes, from the scam. Oh my gosh. So one of the best things to do is he said pay off a credit card in full every month. But like, so then I realized like, so he said there's something about paying off a debt in full that makes the credit bureaus say, yay.

So think about your credit score as your GPA, your grade point average. Okay. It's an average of your choices and financial choices. Think about the credit bureaus as your GPA, your grade point average, is an average of your choices, your financial choices. Think about the credit bureaus as your teachers, they give you your grade, and think about the credit report as your transcript. It has your grade, but all the other classes and things like the real in-depth of what you've done with your life,

your financial life. If you want the credit bureaus to teachers to give you really great grades, they love to see an A every month. An A plus in credit is when you pay off a debt in full. And so- So you're talking like if we were to go the method and look at, you line up all your debt, and you look at the one with the lowest balance, paying off that lowest balance is like, boop, yep, just, but it'll give you an A, but just that A that one month, but we want to get

an A every month. Okay. And so I like to get a credit card with zero balance or pay one off to zero balance. And then I look at my money list and say, what is my least expensive reoccurring payment? Is it Spotify? Is it Apple? Is it Netflix? No more than 25 bucks a month.

And I say, hey, Apple or Spotify, whatever,, don't go to the bills account like you used to. I'm gonna put a credit card in the middle of that equation. And you're gonna pay that every month. Yes. So they're seeing you pay it off to zero. Yes. Every month. Every month, like the credit bills are like, hey, hey, hey.

And I'm like, so at the end of it, I was like, hey, hey, hey. Now it's a song. Because Spotify too. Oh my God, I love that. So what I did, because I was like, at because Spotify too. Oh my God, I love that. So what I did, because I was like, at the time I had these two cards, I did it with two cards.

And so I went from a 530 to a 750 in one year, which doesn't sound like a lot, because you can raise your credit for a better life. It sounds like a lot. Especially with an active foreclosure. Yes, and especially if you're in that zone where you're like, I'm trying to put groceries on the table. How the hell am I gonna raise my credit score?

I gotta get to the store and buy some chicken. I'm not worried about all this other stuff, but you're basically saying any of those, you can automate the payment this way and have it serve like this double duty for you. There you go, if you do that, that was tremendous. I love that. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

Any other tips in terms of boost and credit score? So another tip is just to like, remember I said 35% of your score is payment history. Yes. And so one of the best ways to do it is to just automate your bills from your bills account because you don't, that's the payment history. And so this is only though, because not everyone makes enough to cover their bills. This is for those people who make enough to cover your monthly bills, but it seems like so little, but not being late and just having them automatically paid

35% of your score, which is huge. So if you do those things, like I said, credit is tips and tricks, it's actually not discipline. Oh, I love that. All right, let's talk about the fifth thing we need to master, which is how do you increase your money? So best way to start to increase your money is where you currently work. I would be looking like, am I paid?

Let's look at what glass doors talking about. But you have to keep in mind not just your role, but the size of company. I promise you the janitor at Facebook is making more than the janitor at your local high school. Yes. So one, understanding the size of your company, but also many women especially are underpaid. And so before you ask for money, create something that my sister calls the GoMe file. That's your brag book. And so whenever she does something at the company,

she writes it down, she says, go me. Yeah. And so ideally the GoMe things on your list are ways that you made the company money. Yes. So you can quantify or save the company money. Yes. She's like, if you can't quantify it, figure out how to quantify it. Yes.

You know? And then that way when you go and you sit with your manager or boss or whatever and you're having your review, you're not actually asking for a raise, you're asking for a correction to salary because I made the company $100,000 last year, or I saved the company $30,000, so I'm asking for this 2% raise. I mean, I'm undervaluing myself. Look at the value that I bring. Yes.

And so starting there is a great place. And this is really backed up by research, so especially for women and any person of color, that the number one thing that will determine your ability to make more money or your ability to get a promotion is whether or not you make your contributions known. And so that go me list is a critical habit because you're going to forget. And without that, you don't have the ability to really explain why because I agree with you. Like you do, there is a lot of advice out there like ask your valley, look at glass

door, but if you can't make the case, you're just making a threat. That's it. I call it, this is what I tell my mentees, I call it illustrating your Oprah. And so I like Oprah of right is a type of like, if right now in this room we said, hey, if we could gather, you know, $300,000, Oprah is going to showcase all of us on her social media, open up her Rolodex and help negotiate our deals.

Like we would gather that 300,000 so quickly because we know that it's worth hundreds of millions of dollars, right? Because we know the value of Oprah is so obvious that it's just illustrated in the way she navigates. And so whenever I'm not getting paid as much as I want as a speaker or someone's trying to undervalue me, I ask myself, have you illustrated your Oprah?

Have you illustrated your value in such an obvious overwhelming way that they're like, of course, we will find the money. Yes. And I think this is so important that we just take a minute and highlight this because the tendency is to be angry at the employer or the client that you're offering a service for that they didn't see my value. No, no, no, no, for that they didn't see my value. No, no, no, no, no. You didn't see your value. Yes. You didn't actually make the case. Yes.

And you did not present yourself or the value you provide. Yeah. If you are somebody that offers a service, you are a coach, you're a real estate agent, you cut hair, you walk dogs. That is a business. Yeah. Do not give that shit to your friends for free. Yeah. cut hair, you walk dogs. That is a business. Do not give that shit to your friends for free because you will start to resent them

for them wanting to, for them kind of taking you for granted. No, you're taking yourself for granted. So people are gonna ask, people are gonna assume, you cannot do that with yourself. But this is about you understanding your value. So in terms of somebody who's listening and they're like, okay, I can't quit my job. I advocated and they gave me a small amount,

but it's not enough. You also talk a lot about, well, what else can you do? Is there side hustles? You mentioned it as part of your story. This has always been part of my story on the side as I was climbing out of debt. I will do anything, well, within limits. You know what I mean?

But within limits. So what are some of your favorite side hustles that you recommend for folks that are like, okay, I don't need to go out on the weekend. And if I'm working my side hustle, I'm both making money and I'm not consuming and spending more money. So what are some side hustles that you like?

Well, one, I say before, like they're not a specific one, but I, before looking like externally, ask yourself, one, do I have a degree or certification in something? Because one, it means that you'll get to get paid more for that thing. You know, it's like, oh, I'm a teacher. Like who doesn't want a preschool teacher babysitting? I don't have to get regular pay. I can increase my pay. And then two, what do you do at your current job

so there's not this additional learning curve? Oh, that's huge because now, unless you're starting a business, that's different. But aside, also, if I'm just here for the money, then I'm not trying to learn anything new. Like I just want to be able to just do it. And so for me, tutoring and babysitting was so perfect because autopilot, I can tutor, I teach all day.

You know, when I was teaching preschool, babysitting, the kids love me. I'm such a, you know, this is what I can do. And so that was a perfect side hustle for me, you know? And so say if you were like, I don't know, like maybe you work as a home health aide or something like that or maybe organization is something.

You're like, you know, I'm already helping people in their home get their things together and I love organizing. I can do that. It's important to do the math before you jump into it because some side hustles require a little bit of investment. So it's like, well, does this make sense? You know, like, you know, let's just say you decide, oh, I'm going to drive Uber. Okay. So is your car insurance going to go up? Oh, you know, like, yes, gas. And so is the math going to math?

You want to make sure whatever side hustle you choose that you do the math ahead of time, you know, that if you are going to invest, let's just say you're a really great baker, you know, if you are going to invest like, and maybe you're going to invest time and energy and money into learning how to decorate cakes because you bake cakes well, but you're like, oh, I'll take the $200 decorating class because it means I can charge another 30% on the cake that I bake. Oh, I love that. So there has to be what I call direct return on investment.

So meaning that in the beginning, when you are investing in a company or whatever you're doing, it's okay that indirect return doesn't make sense. Meaning like, I'm not going to get a Mel Robbins pen in the beginning or like business cards necessarily because can I sell this pen, unless I'm going to pen selling business, to make money? So in the beginning, it's like, okay, I'm gonna invest in maybe like a cute album for Marshall's because I'm a speaker.

And because when I show up, this will allow me then to get paid more because I look really professional. So there's a direct return. Got it. If I bake cakes, I'm gonna buy egg, flour, sugar, the things I make, put it together, bake the cake. So many people invest in the indirect thing,

you know, like the accoutrement, like the website, the this, the that, and it's like, you haven't made any money yet, now you're broke. Yeah. Before, you know? So just be mindful, like make sure that the math makes sense, get things that are aligned with like what you're already doing and what maybe you have a certificate or degree in

so you could get paid more. Oh, I love that. Any final parting wisdom? I'll say this, that like we are here, well, I don't know if you know this, Mel, but two and a half years ago, my husband passed away suddenly. I did not know that.

I'm a antivirus. So that sucks. And so one thing I learned from that, aside from the financial component, which is that we did, I want to say 85 to 90% of the things right. So I get to just miss him. There's not the financial ruin that so many, so many women lose their partner and their home.

That has not been the case for me. But what I did, what my therapist calls the gift of grief is that it gave me perspective of what's really important. You know, like that all of this that you're learning today is not for money's sake. It's for meaning's sake, you know, like I hope you remember to put that first and center that like, what is the real thing that you're wanting to what end? Time with family, time with friends, you know, like purpose, whatever that is, to center that

and to use the money to match to it. Because you might already have enough, you know? I didn't know I had enough. I was like the driver like, oh, babe, we could do this. And he'd be like, well, I like our house. You know, we could get this car, you know, if I work even harder and he's like, well, the car's paid off, I like our car.

His thing was always, because I have a stepdaughter, Alyssa, he would always be like, well, if this is good and you're good, I'm good. You know? And it took for him passing away to make me realize that it's enough. Like, I have enough. I spend way more time with family and friends now. You know, like, so all that I work toward is to just bring back to center to enough. I don't need to collect anymore. Like, you know, I'm, I'm so happy my book made the New York Times best sellers list. But honestly, like, what does that even mean? You know, we're here for a flash in the pan and how will you spend that time?

And I hope you spend it like on the things that mean the most connectedness, love, purpose, and they use your money as one of the tools to help you achieve that life. You are a gift to all of us. Thank you. Thank you for absolutely everything that you poured into us today. What's coming up for you? I just miss him. He was a really good man.

He still is. And he's really proud of you. It sounds like he taught you something that he could not teach you when he was still here. So much, honestly. Like I look back and I'm just like, I mean, candidly, I see how there's so many women who are looking for partnership, my husband never made over $60,000 a year. And yet the way he looked after like all of us, I mean, he called my parents more than I did, you know?

Like he would like cut my nephew's hair. When he passed away, there was a little old lady down the street who I'd never met, who knocked on my door and said, I heard the gentleman here passed away. and I said, yes, she said, you know, he'll I'll really miss him. He used to rake my lawn and I didn't even know that. But that's how he was, you know, sometimes I think that we think more money like means that we could do more. He was testament that that's, you don't need, you can show up fully. So I just, yeah, he just, I just, it's a lot.

The loss is great, but not just mine. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so like, I'm just so blessed to have experienced that kind of love. I was loved so, so, so well that even without him being here, that love still resonates like through me and around me and the people that he touched.

So just really fortunate. We're really fortunate that we have you. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you. You're welcome. I feel very grateful that you are now my friend. Thank you. And the thing is, is that when you don't understand money,

you're gonna make me cry. When you don't understand money and you're really scared about where you are, it clouds everything that's important. Yeah, until it comes crashing in your face and you wished it. And you spend all your emotional energy in that shame. And you not only miss the solutions, but you're not present for your life. Yeah, because it can, like, you know, there's so much joy to be had

even if you don't have like, it's, if you don't have enough for your basic needs, obviously, that's really hard. But for many people, that's actually not the case. Yes. You know, that we are making ourselves sick and unhappy from a place of like, you actually have enough and your kids are right here, they wanna play with you.

You know, like you actually have enough and your wife wants to like watch a play with you. You know, like you actually have enough and your wife wants to like watch a movie with you. You know, your parents want to see you, you actually have enough. And it's not going to be until they're gone that you're like, I wish I would have, you know? Yeah. And so like, I'm fortunate that I,

something in me, I mean, I believe in a divine power, like a, and a year and a half before Jarell passed away, it was like this sense that came over me, like you need to spend a lot of time with your husband. Like he wasn't sick or anything like that. I just was like, cause I just was working so much. I mean, my business, I did eight figures in a year and I was like, oh.

And then something was like making a lot, but also was taking a toll. And it was like, I think you need to slow down and like focus here. And so I did till the last year and a half of my marriage went from good to great. And I'm so grateful that I listened to that inner thing that's to Tiffany.

So we had like Friday date nights, you know, like I didn't work on Fridays. And I would stop working at five because he got off at five so we could hang out after work. I wasn't doing that before. I used to work from like, you know, seven to 10 every day regardless, you know? And so I look back at the time and I'm so grateful, you know, that like he always loved me well and I got to really love him

well in that time, you know? And so there's not much I regret other than I just wish he was here, obviously, you know? But I think about our love. I think about all the things that we did together. That's beautiful. You know, so yeah, but it's just... Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Why are you apologizing? No, I just don't want to bring the energy down. You didn't. You lifted it up. Thank you. You made it way more important, honestly. Thank you. No, thank you. So I always tell the person listening that I love you. Okay. Do you want to move this? No, no.

And I believe in your ability to change your life. And so if you want to do that together, I don't know if I'm going to get through this. You know, and in case nobody else tells you as you're listening to us, I wanted to say, I love you. Yeah, I love you too. And we believe in your ability to change your life. Absolutely, and Tiffany just gave you all of the information and tips and tricks

and strategies that you need to go do it. That work? Okay. need to go do it. That work? Okay. All right. Great. I got to wait for my action though. Action. All right. Are we good with that?

It's a garbage truck done. We're just going to keep going. Go for it. And we'll go up a little bit more. I'm sorry. I should say back, shouldn't I? Is that good? Is that simpler?

That stuff like flies over my head when people start talking about that. Okay, I'm gonna do one more. Sorry. Including, okay, sorry. Go up one more time. Two million people to be exact. Save million.

Oh my Lord. Let me go back. Whoo! Oh my lord. Let me go back. Whoo. Oh my gosh. You ever see like, um, what is that movie? Uh, uh, Friday is no, what is it? Is it called Friday? No, what's the movie with Virginia George? Um, oh my God, I have like the worst like old lady memory. They're like, get in loser. We're going to the mall. Of course I would. Yes, but we're not going to the mall.

It's like, get in loser. That's great. I can't live with this. Of course I wouldn't. Yes, but we're not going to the mall. Yes, yes, we're going to the mall. Because that's spending money. It's like get a loser. Yes, get a loser. Yes. Woo. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.

You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice

of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.