The Mel Robbins Podcast - 5 Things the Men in Your Life Aren’t Telling You but Need to Talk About

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

In today’s episode, you will learn the 5 things that men secretly struggle with and how you can open up the conversation to better support them. I’m proud to introduce you to my husband, Chris, who is the founder of a men's retreat, Soul Degree. He has been leading these retreats for the past 6 years and has worked with everyone from veterans, executives, and first responders to college students. Chris has incredible insight into the secrets that men keep and the struggles they’re facing alone.  Hearing Chris unpack these challenges is very compelling. He not only shares insights from leading retreats for 6 years but also from his coaching practice and his work as a death doula.  Many of the struggles that he witnesses in other men are the exact same struggles that he has worked through as well. This is an episode every man, boy, or anyone who identifies as male needs to hear, and so do the people that love them. It’s not just we women who struggle with self-love; everyone struggles with loving themselves.  If you don’t know what’s going on with the men in your life, let me talk to them and let them know it’s okay. That’s why I am teaching you how to start loving yourself with a simple habit that you can add to your routine. Today you’ll learn: The 5 shocking things that most men in your life are struggling withOne habit that has helped hundreds of thousands of people to start showing self-loveWhy it’s so hard to love yourself and the secret to self-loveThe science behind why this habit is transformativeThe profound insight my husband Chris had when he took the 5-day challenge  Love is not something you feel; it’s something you must demonstrate. Xo, Mel  In this episode, you’ll learn:2:25: The 5 shocking things that most men are struggling with4:57: Do you put others' needs above your own? Do this exercise.14:24: Why my husband, Chris, thought this habit was ridiculous at first18:11: When in his life Chris started to feel like a failure25:24: What all men struggle with27:48: 50% of people find it impossible to do this.29:35: What Chris has to say to all the men out there32:34: The profound insight Chris had when he took the 5-day challenge37:40: Why I sign off every letter and every episode the way I do39:06: What you tell yourself every time you do this one habit41:56: The message from a listener that every skeptic needs to hear41:44: Why it’s so hard to love yourself51:50: Why you’re going to want to share this with the men in your life Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast Today, I've got a special treat for you and me ladies and gentlemen Christopher Robbins has agreed to come on the show today Thanks for having me well, I gave you no choice. We'll be honest with that I sort of twisted your arm into this because there's a very important thing that once you shared it with me, I wanted you to share it with everybody. And I should just point out everybody that like a lot of our podcast episodes, we're just putting our arms around you and taking you on a walk with Chris and I today. And what's happening on our walk is there's a construction project outside. So if you hear some beep, beep, beeps or some backing up, you're just here with us in Vermont on a walk.

All right, Chris. Just another day on the beep beeps. Yep, that's right. So I was talking to Chris this morning, and I think a lot of you know the story about the restaurant businesses, uh, tanking and our life savings going down the drain with it. And after Chris left that business, you took a couple years to really figure out

what you were going to do next with your life and to heal a lot of went down for you personally in the wake of that experience of launching a business, pouring your heart and soul into it, and then it not working. And one of the things that you've done is you started a men's retreat called soul degree. It's a five day experience where you take men out into the woods and includes yoga and journaling and guided meditation and all kinds of coaching. And so you've got one of your men's retreats coming up and you never ever talk about what happens at them.

You come back and you're completely transformed and I really respect the fact that you don't share anything because it's all confidential. But I asked you this morning, if you would just tell me like, what are the themes that come up? When you go and do a retreat with five men or you're coaching your male clients,

and you said there are five very distinct themes that all the men that you work with are struggling with. And when you told them to me, I was shocked and I said, everybody needs to hear this. So that's what I want to talk about, okay? Yes. So can we go through them? What are the five things that all the men that you know and the men that have been on your retreats and the men that you coach?

What are they struggling with but not telling the people in their life that they're struggling with? We were talking about this morning is just that, uh, guys don't put themselves first. Everyone else comes first. Men have lost touch with their own wants and needs, and they struggle to even generate one. Men are lonely or friendless or lacking the ability to or the confidence to generate friendship. There's an obligation to make money for everyone or be the provider, be the protector, whatever that entails. And men often do not feel good enough. And men are seeking a deeper,

more meaningful life. Well, that's a lot that's on every guy's mind. How about we dig deeper into these five things and take them one at a time? So the first one, Chris. Everyone else comes first, and that manifests or shows up, often, at least with many of the men that I've engaged with, is them losing complete sight of what they need or want for themselves, just because they're the muscle of looking out for themselves is completely lost. And it's all about everyone else. When you first shared that in the kitchen this morning, I looked at you with like my eyes crossed. Because I never in a million years

thought that a dude feels like everybody else comes first because every woman that I know says that everybody in her life comes first. And so it never even occurred to me that the guys walking around feel as though everybody else in the family or with the roommates or with their significant other that they come before them. I think they're putting what they perceive to be the needs of the people around them first, which means they're pouring themselves into work or you know other obligations, if you will. And you know, I have guys that have come on retreat and

they haven't really even conceived of a hobby, much less what's important to them. You also explain that you have this exercise that you do with your coaching clients and that you guys do on retreat that really illustrates what you're talking about. Can you explain that? I've asked guys to take out a piece of paper and write down specifically what they want and need and many just draw blank can't fill the page. Nothing. and many just draw blank can't fill the page. Nothing?

No, they actually have to step away from the exercise and even give it a day or two before they really feel like, hmm, haven't really thought about that before. That's a layer deeper than I think what most women struggle with. Because I think at least the women that I talk to and my friends and listeners

to the show that write in, you have a sense of what you need to do to put yourself first. You have a sense of what you want in terms of your own needs. And there's a longing for it. But to have an experience of life where you have so put everybody else before you that you don't even know or feel like your needs matter enough that you can't even put them on a piece of paper. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah, it is. It is.

It's tough to swallow. And, you know, with all due respect, I think that if you look at something as basic as exercise, for example, and you see a guy spending a good bit of time exercising, that's not to say that he doesn't perceive that as being a need or a want of his, but there often times is still a layer of obligation. I got to look good for my wife or my husband. There's a gada, a hafta. And so, I'm not sure that can always fall in the appropriate category of genuinely, what do I need to feel good about myself and my life?

What's the second one? I think people are... I'm not sure if I'd say explicitly they're lonely, but they're many are friendless or have lost their way in developing friendships. The muscle has weakened as they have poured themselves into things like work and family and God forbid they're running into health problems. I mean, all of these things started to take precedent to cultivating real deep friendships. And so particularly when you hit your 40s, 50s, I think you really have to work extra hard at cultivating and building friendship.

Maybe there are people in your life that have been around since middle school or high school or college, but outside of that, especially if you're somebody that's moving or changing jobs for that matter, it can be really disruptive and be a major roadblock and then subsequently just an excuse and then all just an excuse,

and then all the sudden the guy wakes up and is like, yeah, I don't really have a whole lot of friends around me. Wow. What about the third thing that men struggle with, but they don't really talk about, or, you know, I mean, the surprise. I'm gonna stick with the cultural thing, of course, that men naturally still follow that societal norm of needing to be the provider and the

protector or one and the same. It's all about making money. How so? Whether they are generating the pressure upon themselves or it's coming from external forces, and I think it's probably a little bit of a mix of both, but the sense of responsibility that the more money I make, the more security and freedom and happiness I can create amongst the people around me. And so therefore, let me go back to making money.

And is there also this pressure among guys that you're measured up based on how much money you make? Like you're, you know what I'm saying? Like there is this unspoken thing. I don't know if guys are being, you know, influenced by looking around or over their shoulder or whether it's all self-created. You know, that your own expectation level. And that was the other thing that we talked about this morning was just, I'm not good

enough. I'm not living up. I'm not reaching the goal. Whatever that goal is. Well, and I can see that if you feel this sense of obligation that everybody else comes first so much so that you're not even in touch with your own needs, and then you also have lost touch with your friends, and now you're like, my God, where did my friends go? And then you start to feel this obligation to just make money, all those things become measuring sticks where you're like, I'm just not measuring up in any of these areas.

And what's interesting is that the fifth one that you said is how they ultimately end up with you as a coach or attending a retreat or being part of your online community coaching programs that you do. And I think this is an important one for everybody to hear. This is a struggle and an interest that a lot of guys aren't talking about. And what is it? That men are seeking a deeper, more meaningful life. Whatever that might mean for them. And even announcing that publicly, I think, is a little tricky at times, not because guys are not willing to admit that once they arrive at it, but I think it takes some time to arrive at that.

Like, oh, yeah, there's something deeper that I want to go after that I haven't yet in my life. And like I said, that means something different to every guy out there. Well, and what's also interesting is that I think when you realize you want something deeper, it probably sets up a major conflict because that would mean everybody else

might not come first. And it also means your focus shifts from merely providing and climbing the ladder and making money to something intrinsic and deeper that might not involve money at all. Well, you're right. It definitely is a pendulum swing to focusing on self, which is like we talked about a weak muscle, but it can also imply that something is broken and needs fixing. They need to figure out that it's not about it's broken or something has to change. It's about my heart talking. My soul is talking here. What's normally talking for a guy?

I had to solve the problem, I had to make the block, I had to lose the pound, I had to get the girl, I had to, you know, what am I kids need? Is the car need fixing? Like the list is long. Yeah. So is the heaviness. Oh my God. I feel bad. You know, I have known you, honey, for 28 years? And I would say that you struggled with all of these things for a very long time. The only time that I didn't see you struggle is when you were launching

the restaurant business with your best friend, Jonathan. And when it was first happening, and you were so alive and fulfilled, and then of course, as is the case with most restaurants, it was great while it was great, and then it was horrible when it was horrible. And when you came out of that restaurant business, the story that most of our listeners know, you were a shell of the person that you are now. And you really went to work on yourself and you were looking for a way to get together with other men and develop friendship and deeper meaning, and you couldn't find it. So that's why you created Soul Degree. And I think it would be helpful for everybody to hear the fact that you were struggling

and how you were struggling with these five things. And I remember a particular moment in time, it was just three years ago, where you remember when I'm talking about? I think so. Where I had asked you if you would be a part of a focus group for the book I was researching the High Five habit. And I asked you, if you would please, for five days in a row, just add the habit of high-fiving yourself in the mirror to your morning routine. And do you remember what you said?

That it was a stupid idea. I believe it was. That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard. I'm not doing it. And when we come back, because I think this is a great time to take a quick pause, I want to pick up the story because at the time, I didn't realize how lonely you were. I didn't realize how much you were still struggling. I didn't realize the sense of obligation and how you were not taking care of your own needs and how lonely you were both in our marriage and in your life. And I want to go to that moment of what happened next and we'll

tell that story when we return. Stay with us. Back, I'm here with my husband, Christopher Robbins, who's also the founder of the men's retreat soul degree. And we're talking about the five silent struggles that men have and how knowing about them will help you support the men or anybody in your life who identifies male. I just asked Chris if he could go deeper into how these five silent struggles impacted him. And so we're going to go back three years to a moment in time where I was researching the high five habit, which is just adding a high five in the mirror to yourself as part of your morning routine.

I was in the middle of researching it. We had all these focus groups and I had asked Chris if he would please participate in the focus group and high five himself in the mirror every morning as part of his morning routine. And he said, and FW. Well, you did have a very deliberate, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I immediately thought it was the dumbest idea ever. Let's go to the mirror. Let's high five ourselves, and this is going to solve all problems. Well, I'm not saying it's going to solve all problems, but I know based on the research,

and I know based on the testimonials of 175,000 people that are so profound, that when you take on this habit, it has a shocking impact on your brain and how you see yourself and the person in the mirror. And that kicks open a door to an entirely new possibility. And you know, we're laughing, but new possibility. And you know, we're laughing, but when I kept pushing you, because I'm like, dude, you're my husband, I need you to try this. I want you to do this for five days. You shared with me something that I didn't know. And the real reason why you thought this was stupid when you dug a little deeper, it was really sad. And and honestly it was scary to hear as your spouse. So would you share with everybody sort of the deeper insight as to why you had that reaction? I think at the time I related to the idea of a high five to myself as being encouragement, the idea that you would high five yourself to inspire

forward action. And yet I find that the power of that high five in the mirror is less your hand meeting the mirror and more your eyes meeting your eyes and That's where the struggle was Because When I took that challenge on, I remember really, the high-five was easy. The looking at myself and the mirror. That was not easy. Why?

Can I hold your hand. I think it was not easy because there was so much reflection on the past. I was looking back. I was not seeing somebody that deserved a high five. I saw failure, I saw upset, I saw just not living up to the expectation that I think I had set for myself. And I'm sure that society's expectations were also influencing that. But just where I was at the time, I didn't feel like I deserved that high five. So I think that that was probably the underlying reason why my reaction to the idea of doing it was this is stupid. When the truth is that I was, I was, I was not happy with myself and didn't think was deserved. It's really hard to hear how long you felt that way about yourself. Because I stood next to you for years to sink right next to you. And when I looked at you, like I saw the world's best dad, amazing husband, I saw somebody who was absolutely integral

to helping me build my business. I felt grateful for you. I didn't know you thought any of those things. You just kind of put on a smile and carried on. for you, I didn't know you thought any of those things. You just kind of put on a smile and carried on. You were so sort of stoic about it. So can you explain because I think that there's a lot of people, especially men, that really beat the hell out of themselves when their career doesn't go, how they thought it was gonna go,

or they get laid off, or you become an entrepreneur, and entrepreneurship looks fricking glamorous. It's a bitch, especially in the restaurant business. And you had been an entrepreneur, so can you just share just a little bit of context for people so they understand like how long you Would look in the mirror and see somebody that failed and why you felt that way

Oh, I'd had to have been 15 years anyway. 15 years. Oh, yeah, no, I don't think it was the unraveling of the restaurant business that was the beginning of that I think that it, I'm not sure exactly when, but I, as you and I know, like the looking back on my very colorful career, I am grateful today for all of the things that I did, but having moved through so many different roles and responsibilities and industries and companies and job changes and I just never ever related to myself like I was succeeding in a professional sense. And I of course concluded that therein lies the source of my failure because my job here is to be the provider,

the proverbial provider, and to go, quote, make it happen. So the discomfort with myself and my progress professionally was absolutely what I think dragged me down. I would say that at the time you and I were in the throws of it, I mean, we were talking about just getting up and putting on your boots and just diving into the fire every day. There wasn't at least just didn't seem like there was a moment to actually stop and acknowledge the good. And quite frankly, you weren't acknowledging me like that.

You might have seen me as a good husband or father or, you know, business partner, but those words weren't being shared between us. And so naturally, I didn't get that reinforcement verbally from you. But I also think that the being in the thick of it and running as fast and as hard as we were, didn't, you know, the idea of stopping and looking in the mirror and seeing myself truly for who I am and the good that I have done and acknowledging all the failures as being a source of powerful learning and all that stuff. Fuck that.

I wasn't, and that's why I say, I think the hardest part was to stand in front of that mirror and see your whole self. And for guys, I think for guys, that is for many borderline feels impossible Because that's what we do. We just get up put the boots on and go Okay, you know Mel needs something the wife needs something the kids need something the The employer needs something Dog okay, okay, let me jam in a quick workout Maybe because maybe I'm thoughtful about what my mind body or spirit needs, but also something that I think is an afterthought for guys.

We put everybody but ourselves first. The act of standing in front of a mirror and high-fiving yourself and looking yourself in the eyes and saying, I love you, outlandish concept. But hugely, hugely important. And it doesn't happen unless you're sort of willing to really stop and slow down and consider that you matter more than your wife, your kids, your employer, the rest of it. And I think that's part of what has, I think maybe over the years dragged me down was paying zero attention to me and paying all the attention

or so I felt on everybody outside of me. And providing and trying to prove that you were successful and trying to earn money and live up to also your dad's expectations. Yeah, well that's, I mean, if you really wanna go back to the root of it all, we could be here all day, but yeah, even just the basics of putting on a suit and tie

and packing a briefcase and catching a train and working in a skyrise in Manhattan, all of those things were just visual cues of what I thought I should be doing, none of which of course played out other than the occasional suit until till ties in the rest of it flow out the window, but just I wasn't I wasn't being like my dad, which is what I thought I was supposed to be doing.

So you get really emotional when you talk about looking at yourself in the mirror. And I want to hear you talk more about that because the challenge of simply standing in the mirror and looking in the eyes, I agree with you. That's the hardest part of adding this habit to your morning routine. Just put the toothbrush down and be with the person in the mirror. Look them in the eyes and don't see a reflection, see a human being who needs you. That half of men and women can't or won't look at themselves. And it's a good point because you can, it sounds weird, but you can look right through

yourself in the mirror versus actually seeing yourself. Yes. And if you aren't looking through yourself, a lot of us look at all the things we don't like. And so even gazing at ourselves is an act of self criticism because we're like, I hate my this, I hate my that, my, you know, neck is saggy. And, um, you know, you have since done tremendous amount of therapy, you are in the middle of getting your masters in spiritual transpersonal psychology. And you've been leading retreats with men called

soul degree for four years, Chris. And there's a lot of emotion that comes up for you six years, six years, terrible wife. Can I get a high five? Cure me on you. Thank you. Don't let go of my hand. I don't want to hold your hand. I don't know what I'll hold your hand. You have been in the presence of so many men, and you've even had Oakley reach out to you and had you counsel some of his friends through anxiety and through issues. And I know there's a lot of emotion there,

so can you just speak to the men and the boys that may be listening or to the people in their lives that love them about what you've witnessed, about the importance of being able to look yourself in the mirror and learn how to take actions to truly support and love yourself and that this is a very foreign concept for boys and men. I often talk about soul degree as being a space that I hold for men that allows them to slow down. When the truth of the matter is it's in the slowdown that all of those beautiful things can take place.

And I think that the reason why there's a lot of emotion there for me, particularly with guys, why there is a lot of emotion is because in my experience and sitting with men, very rarely do men feel truly seen and heard on an emotional level. Yes, and even in just every day real life. I'm so happy you're here. We have to take a short break to hear a word from our sponsors, but when we come back, I wanna go back to the mirror and hear more about that experience when you first started

looking yourself in the eye and trying this high-five habit. [♪ Music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in background, music playing in You made it a habit to stop at a time in your life where you were still beating the shit out of yourself and look yourself in the eyes. And so what did you experience for yourself personally in terms of the science working, the shift in how you started to see the person in the mirror? Well, transformation doesn't happen without repetition. I know you call it the high five habit, but it's one of those things that it almost feels elusive in terms of becoming habitual. And that's because next week or next year, some shit might go down and you might do something

or something happens where you really feel immediately lousy about yourself. And so even though there may be some habit of you getting up saying, I love you or high-fiving yourself, your life circumstance is going to get in the way. Right. Frequently. Correct. Just like with exercise or drinking your water or getting a good night's sleep.

But when you come back to that moment, I'll tell you something. I look at myself differently and I know you do too. And so the importance of this because it is something that most of us don't do. I think we casually slip into the subconscious where we're beating ourselves up and we're on autopilot. And every time you pass a mirror, you have a chance to look yourself in the eyes and see a person that is worthy of celebrating, of cheering for, of believing in simply because you're here.

That to me is the power of this. What is the power of it for you? The looking in the mirror and the acknowledging of myself, it's rarely like, okay, you got this. You know, all right, you're next meeting or you're next whatever. I think one last thing I want to say to the men out there, any man who feels a sense of failure or that they haven't lived up to their own expectations or those outside of them, any man who's been battling with or has battled with addiction or depression or any of these things that drag us down,

I strongly encourage you to start with you and to begin with forgiveness, not always so easy, but without a doubt, I know from my experience, not just me personally, but being in the company of lots of men, that we are all working our ass off to do the right thing. And while we don't always believe that the results live up, it's in the forgiveness

and the starting with yourself and the self-acknowledgement. And I want to go back to what you said in the very beginning, because I know that we're going to get a ton of questions, Chris, wow, how do I begin that? that. One step that you could take today is trying this habit of even just looking yourself in the mirror. But I'm shocked that I'm even saying this given my initial reaction to the high five habit, but I agree. Start right there. Start in the mirror. You will never forgive yourself if you refuse to look yourself in the eyes with compassion and with forgiveness and with understanding.

And one of the reasons why I'm gonna keep hammering this everybody, raise your hand and high five the mirror because if you're at a place where you are beating the shit out of yourself and you can't stand yourself for whatever reason, whatever you did, we've all done something, you don't have to change your thoughts. The neurobics and the science of simply making the physical gesture of the high five and all of the lifetime of positive programming associated with it.

It has a chemical, a neurological, a psychological benefit immediately that is grounded in science. And so the physical act does the work for you and it starts to plow new neural pathways and it releases dopamine, all of which will help you do the other work that you need to do to walk down the road of forgiving yourself. You got to start by simply looking at yourself in the eyes and seeing somebody who is worthy of forgiving, because you are. Yeah, I can't stress that enough. The mirror is where it happens. It's one of the reasons why I always sign off the show by telling the person listening that I love you. I love that about how you sign off.

And I know you mean it. I do mean it because I just know how many people can't look at themselves in the mirror. And it breaks my heart and it feels good to have somebody tell you that they love you and that you're proud of them. And to some extent, unless you're willing to do the work on yourself to let love in from yourself, to demonstrate encouragement, support, and love by looking at your eyes in the mirror or high-fiving yourself in the mirror. If you can't do that for yourself,

you will never let the love in that is all around you from other people. Because you don't believe you're worthy of it and you're proving it based on your actions. What are you thinking about? Because I can see you getting moved. Well, I'm always moved by the way that you sign off and tell people I love you. And it ties back to what I was saying earlier, is just my own experience in being in the company of men who don't, you know, they don't feel that while you're standing in front of that mirror and you're looking at yourself, you may feel alone. But you are not alone.

In either the struggle you have with forgiving yourself or the judgments or the failures or whatever that may be, you are not alone. At a really wild level, there's actually a human being in the mirror who needs you. It's a one person you the mirror who needs you. It's the one person you spend your whole life with. And the moment that you can look them in the eyes and see a human being worth cheering for, you'll realize you aren't alone because you've got yourself. I want to thank you, Chris, for speaking directly to men, but everything that you're saying, everything that I'm saying is universal. And I do think it's important, though, for men and boys and people who identify as male, that you

hear a male voice saying these things. It is critical that other men realize that your emotional health, your sense of self-esteem, self-awareness, self-love. And going back to the very beginning of what I said at the beginning of this episode today is that I think we get self-love wrong, Chris, because we think love is a feeling. But the truth is, you only feel loved because of other people's actions. And when it comes to learning to love yourself, you have to start with the actions,

actions that demonstrate love. And when you are able to stand in front of a mirror and look yourself in the eyes, that's an act of love. When you're able to bring compassion and understanding to the person in the mirror and you see somebody that's trying and you see somebody that has regrets and you see somebody who still has an incredible life to live and is worthy of love, that's an act of love. When you raise your hand and high five yourself, that's an act of love. And all the research also shows that the most important habit that has the biggest impact When you raise your hand and high five yourself, that's an act of love.

And all the research also shows that the most important habit that has the biggest impact in our lives is being kind to yourself. I want you to do this for real. So you know how I mentioned that I had 175,000 people from 91 countries try this for five days. Well, if you wanna try this for five days and get support, go to highfivechallenge.com and you can do this challenge with people around the world.

And high five is spelled H-I-G-H, the number five challenge.com. And for five days, I will support you cheer you on. And so, Chris, I just want to thank you. And I love that you shared all that you just shared with us. And I have one more story and I would love for you to stay with me, because I think you're going to love this story too. It's from a woman named Chris, and her story says it all

about how you are one decision away from a different life, because you are one decision away from changing the way you treat yourself and when you change the way that you treat yourself, a whole new life opens up for you, just like it did for Chris and just like it did for me. Hey, Mel, I'm not sure where to start with this email, but I'm going to start with saying thank you. You've helped me gain my identity and life back.

Buckle up, it's a long email. My name is Chris, I'm 35, and from the United States. Back in 2019, my life was falling apart at the seams, but quietly. I was doing the best I could to manage with the tiny amount of tools I had, but starting in 2020 through the beginning of 2021, were the worst times of my life to date. All that I had worked for in my life and sacrificed to build the life that I always had dreamt and wanted was ripped for me. And there was nothing.

Mel literally nothing I could do to stop it. And then I went AWOL. I went from being a confident, fit, happy, joyful, positive, and full of faith, wife, friend, sister, and daughter to something unspeakable. I adopted unhealthy coping mechanisms to numb my emotions. I got lost in TikTok wasting hours of my life. I was better, angry, brokenhearted, and crushed at spirit. I started getting stuck and what I now know is rumination. And the pounds stacked on, one after another, along with the shame, guilt, and disgust. At some point, I didn't know what weighed more the shaman guilt or the literal 35 pounds

that I've put on. The spaces I once felt safe and fulfilled in were no longer safe. Because my mind, my anxiety mind, she came with me everywhere. Her name's Patrice, I named her. And she wanted to make sure I knew how horrible I was in every moment of the day. How could you make mistakes? You deserve this hurt. You're a disgusting person.

You really don't have friends. No one really likes you. They just use you and leave. And on and on this went. I couldn't even look in the mirror. At some point the panic attack started. I'm talking full-blown, intense attacks where I shake, rock back and forth, and smack myself. I would keep these attacks away from my family.

And Mel, at this point, I brain told me, no one loves you, no one. So, you might as well not be here anymore. And it was so loud all the time. There was no reprieve until at night when I would open a bottle of wine and have some at dinner. And even in my sleep, I would wake in panic attacks. On my way to work one day, I thought,

while trying to suppress an attack, I could feel coming on. I can't keep living like this. I hate the person I see back in't keep living like this. I hate the person I see back in the mirror. And all I see is the damaged person and the damage that's been done to me over this last year. I started to pull out my phone to see if I could find something to help. And what did I find? A podcast. But it wasn't yours. But one you were being interviewed on. And it changed my life.

I was in the middle of cleaning a glass slider door, and you said, go look at yourself in the mirror and give yourself a high five. I stopped everything. I walked into the house and looked into a huge round mirror on my clients' wall and just started to stare at myself while I listened to you speak. I raised my hand, high-fived myself, and the tears came rolling down. And in that moment, a new life began. The spark was small,

but profound. I have relistened the high-fived habit at least four times, my healing journey started in December of 2021. I got myself into therapy. I have been doing tons of research on anxiety, depression, trauma, ADHD, and PTSD. So I can understand what is happening in my brain. But Mel, I wouldn't be here today writing this email had I not stumbled upon you and all the good you put into this world. Although now, I think after listening to your episode on Synchronisities, it wasn't by chance. On that day that I first met you, I was done. And I had no more fighting me, and I was ready to call it quits. But today, I can say I'm a different person.

And I'm me again, and I owe a lot of that to my big sis, Mel Robbins. And if anyone hasn't told you today, Mel, I love you, and I believe in you. Um, whoo. I don't know what to say other than, um, it's beautiful. It says a lot about the impact you're making. You know, I, um, I just know how long I struggled. And so if you can learn how to get out of bed, five, 4, 3, 2, 1, and get your feet on the floor and stand up

and get going. You can keep going. And if you can stand in front of the mirror, no matter what's happened or what you're feeling or what's going on, good or bad, and you can look yourself in the eyes. And you can see a person who is worthy of love, who is doing their best, who needs your support, who's tired of feeling beaten down, and you can raise your hand, and you can give that person a simple high five to demonstrate that you see them, that you love them, that you're there with them.

I personally think that's a secret to everything. I love you. Oh, I love you too. That's what I want to say. So let's go back to the mirror. Can you describe the person you see today? I see a man I love. I see a man I'm proud of.

I see a great father. And I see a man who has accomplished a lot in a short period of time. I see a man who's doing his best and deserves a look in the eye and a high five. And for that, I'm grateful. Given that men silently struggle with these five things, And for that, I'm grateful. Given that men silently struggle with these five things, what is one thing that anybody listening

should start doing in their relationship with the men in their life? Encouraging men to give thought to and pursue in earnest things that they genuinely feel they need or want. Be curious with your man about the things that he is longing for, curious about, wanting to do more of and encourage that. Whether it's golf or like going on a solo hiking thing or pursuing rap mute, like you like what? Like it's all of it. Yeah, any of it. I mean, I would say with something like golf, if there's something about competition or friendship or the social nature of it that the guy really feels he genuinely needs for his own joy and happiness

and well-being, then yeah, encourage that. And for many guys who haven't been able to put their finger on that, try to strike those conversations where maybe those things can get exposed, such that they are suddenly seeing something new and different that, oh, yeah, that thing, then encourage it. You know, I just got something out of this. Because I didn't know that you felt deeply like everybody else comes first, and because I had this opinion that I'm last on the list, right? There was always this tension in our relationship whenever you wanted to come home from work

or do something on the weekends that wasn't something that I wanted you to do. And so I can see how the guilt or the pressure or the to-do list or the attitude that I might have thrown at you because you wanted to go off and take a long bike ride, for example, with a cycling group or on your own, or take a walk in the woods or go to a meditation retreat or whatever it was, meeting it like, because I have something that you wanna do,

I'm playing into that sense of obligation that you have and the sense that mels to do list comes before what I might need for myself. I'm sorry. No, you don't need to apologize for that, but it does point to the importance of ideally in a relationship there being a healthy balance of each person having their own,

either hobbies or interests or things that they, because without that, one gets zero and the other one is like, hey, I'm going out and play golf again. Hey, I'm going out to work in the shop. Hey, I'm going with a boy's to play poker, and then you're doing nothing or vice versa. It's like the guy's like, yeah, honey,

you should go get your nails done or you should go do this or you should go for a hike or you. And then he's left with the goose egg. So it's, it's, it's, it can be a challenging balance. That's a beautiful takeaway right there. That instead of focusing on the transaction and that tit for tat that you focus on an opening for both of you, that if my job is to encourage you to get out to that cycling group to pursue some of the things that make you feel more alive and that give your life meeting and you're doing

the same for me than we achieve the balance by looking out for one another. Conor percent. That's beautiful. Thank you, honey. Thank you. Boy, I wish I could be a fly in that retreat. Too bad. Somehow I think it's perfect that I'm not there as a fly in the retreat.

And one more thing, in case nobody else tells you today, I want to make sure I tell you, I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to start to create a more meaningful life. And I really hope that the conversation today is going to help you do that and will help you support the men in your life in doing it too. Alrighty, I'll see's go high fives. That was a shitty high fives one more. Oh, I love you babe.

Why are you rolling your eyes? I'm listening to you set the table. Let's go. Okay. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. How am I starting this? You better be good. Something like this.

Okay, here we go. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. That's not a weird. Hey, it's your friend Mel. Oh my God. Hey. Hey. Hey. Here we go. Hey. Hey. Hey.

Hey. Here we go. Hey, that's not it. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. How about that? I think that's a much better opener here.

Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.

Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. you