The Mel Robbins Podcast - Are You an “Over” or “Under” Functioner? A Hilarious and Helpful Guide to YOUR Stress Style

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

At some point, the you-know-what is going to hit the fan.And it happened to me the other morning when I was driving my husband to his colonoscopy.This is the first episode without a video version because I recorded it from my iPhone after dropping my husband off at the hospital.I promised to take you into my life; I just didn't expect it to be as a stressful situation was unfolding in real time.When it comes to dealing with stress, best-selling psychotherapist and researcher Harriet Lerner says that being an underfunctioner or an overfunctioner is your patterned response to dealing with the alarm in your body.It probably doesn’t surprise you that I am what researchers call an "Overfunctioner." My husband, Chris, is an "Underfunctioner," especially on those days when he’s on the way to a medical procedure.And learning the way YOU react to stress is a game-changer for your relationships.An overfunctioner like me allows the alarm in my body to take over in stressful situations, becoming triggered and anxious.And the only way to calm the alarm is to bark orders, manage the phone calls, organize the activities, make the appointments, plan the meals, and take on all the responsibilities because it gives me a sense of control.It may be my superpower, but it also makes me a royal pain in the a$$ and takes away the chance for Chris to feel empowered.The way Chris deals with stress is more chill and very methodical, which frustrates the hell out of me.Listen today as we work through these two different ways of dealing with a stressful family situation so that you can understand your own approach better and, more importantly, how to ask for what you need from others before you drive them nuts.And if you’re ready to take the next right step to live your life with more confidence and no regrets, this is your time.Sign up for my exclusive signature course, Launch with Mel Robbins. It’s available for registration only through May 4, so grab your spot today!Learn all the exciting details and sign up here!Xo Mel  In this episode, you’ll learn: 3:00: Let me set the scene for you before everything started blowing up.4:30: Here’s how I set myself up to fail the night before.7:15: Then life kicks in big time and cue the mom guilt flood gates.10:40: Here’s what overfunctioning stress looks like in real life. Can you relate?14:30: If you don’t catch yourself in this state, your relationships pay the price.23:00: Chris nails the good, the bad, and the ugly side of overfunctioning.24:15: I thank Harriet Lerner for her research that helps me understand myself.26:30: Here’s how my anxiety sees my husband’s “underfunctioning” response to stress.28:30: And this is how Chris sees my “overfunctioning” response.32:00: Have a partner who handles stress differently? Here’s how to support each other.38:00: Chris explains what happens in HIS brain and body when he’s stressed.42:30: Holy mackerel, I just realized I never stopped to do this in my stress episode.46:00: This is a tool our couple’s therapist gave us that really helps us to see each other. Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Rowan's podcast. Today, you and I are going to do something so awesome. I'm going to bring you into my life in real time as I am experiencing a breakdown. That's right. Just this morning, I had something incredibly stressful happen, and I decided because I knew that this was something that you would likely relate to, that I would just hit the voice memo.

And I would take you into the stressful breakdown in real time. The reason why I wanted to do that is because there are only two ways, according to the research, that you and I cope with stressful situations. When the shit hits the fan in your life, you are either what researchers call an over-functioner or an under-functioner. Now, my husband and I are opposites. Chris, in a stressful situation, under-functions. Mel, she over-functions.

This is a very common problem in friendships, in relationships. If you don't understand your automatic response to stress, it gets the best of you. And so, I'm so excited for today, because we're going to go into the stressful situation. You're going to see yourself in either Mel or Chris. Let's go to the scene. This morning, sitting in the front seat of my husband's pickup truck, I am unpacking in real time for you, the shit that went down on the drive there. And will you just give me some grace? This is not my finest hour. And especially if you identify with Chris, you're gonna think I'm a real nightmare. But I am willing to show you the worst sides of me

so that we can all become a little bit better. So without further ado, meet over functioning Mel Robbins. over-functioning Mel Robbins. So I'm sitting here in the front seat of Chris's pick-up and I just wanted to talk to you. I have had one hell of a morning and you know when you have a morning or a day where everything just goes off the rails and you can feel your heart pounding in your chest, that is me right now. My heart is pressing against the seat belt.

It has just been one thing after another. So I thought, you know what, I'm going to pick up my phone and hit record and I'm just going to talk to you. Cause for me, I'm the kind of person that needs to process this kind of stuff out loud. And I figured that hearing how I deal with the circumstances of life that stresses all out, it might help you.

The next time you feel like your day just went off the rails. So Chris has a colonoscopy appointment today and for the past 24 hours he has been prepping for it, he's been grumpy, he's been back and forth to the bathroom and we've been sending funny memes and our family group chat, one of the funny ones is, you know those scenes in a movie where there's a big like explosion or car crash and somebody is casually walking away from this massive ball

of fire. I'm thinking of like the fast and furious movies as if nothing's happened. The kids were joking that that was Chris leaving the bathroom last night. Every time he would go in there because the colonoscopy, clean out medication was working. I knew that we were going to have a really early morning departure this morning. And so I planned on getting up at the ass crack of dawn so that I could let the dogs out and get my morning rituals in and setting myself up so that I could sit at the hospital and have everything ready. And you know that podcast, the Mel Robbins podcast, she did this episode about evening routines and how evening routines help you set up a morning routine.

Well guess what? I didn't listen to that fucking bitch. I did not set myself up last night. Nope, not at all. Did not listen to that advice. Nope, would have been great had I set out my computer? Would have been great had I set out the cords I needed and the notebook or printed out the transcripts

that I needed to review so that I could have been prepared when I woke up and empowered, but no, I didn't do that. I went to bed and I forgot to set my fucking alarm. And so I was woken up this morning hearing Chris shuffle into our bedroom, grouchy, mad, hungry. He's been up all night, emptying the pipes. I shoot out a bed like a rocket. Oh my God, we've got 25 minutes before we're supposed to leave.

I let the dogs out, I feed the dogs, I'm now racing around. Chris is now quietly shuffling to the pickup truck where he is climbing into the front seat and reclining it like a bed. And I don't know about you, but when I'm running late and my family gets into the car, it makes my heart race because I now feel the added pressure of not only racing around like a lunatic and feeling stressed out because I have shot myself in the foot, but I'm feeling the added pressure because people are now waiting for me. So I go back and forth to the car, I put my water in my coffee in, I start grabbing stuff from the office, from my bedroom, from all these other places.

And it's kind of a nightmare, honestly. And so I climb into the car and my heart is racing, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, I did not print out the transcript, but now we're up against arriving on time, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh, and Chris was sound asleep asleep and I'm thinking,

we just have to go, we just have to go. I have now doubly shot myself in the foot because I have not gotten my morning routine and that helped me feel grounded. So I'm feeling behind the ball there. I have half the stuff that I need and I don't even know what I've forgotten. I don't have time to get it,

because I really need to support Chris right now. And so I back out of the driveway, we start driving. It's a nice, quiet, 15 minutes. I'm doing my psychological or physiological sci-rego. To try to activate my parasympathetic, relaxed, calm response, it's starting to work. I'm thinking, okay, just gonna have a nice quiet drive. And all of a sudden, our son calls.

Now it's 8.15 and he's supposed to be sitting in class at high school. And so I pick up the phone and I'm like, hey, Oak, what's up? Mom, mom, I don't know what to do. Mom, mom, the Jeep, it just stopped working. It's just like, all of a sudden, just stopped working. And I don't know what to do, like it's in drive, but it's not going anywhere

and the electricity's on and I'm in the middle of the road. And oh my God, oh my God, I'm like, okay. And now my heart is racing again. And I take a deep breath. And now Chris hears this, so he wakes up. And I say, oh, no problem. Take a deep breath. Are you stopped?

Yes, I'm stopped, but I don't want to take my foot off the brake, the car's not moving. I don't know what to do. And now all of a sudden, I, no problem. Take a deep breath. Are you stopped? Yes, I'm stopped, but I don't want to take my foot off the brake. The car is not moving. I don't know what to do. And now all of a sudden, I hear adults talking. He's like, hold on, Mom, there's all these adults because these, of course, right outside of school. So I'm driving away from him, of course, because I'm heading an hour and 40 minutes away to a hospital. And I hear other adults going, why don't we disconnect the battery? Why don't we do this? Why don't we do this? Why don't we do that? I realize he's in good hands.

He tells me, I'm okay. I'll call you in a minute. And so I take a deep breath and all of that flood. You know how something happens to somebody you love and you immediately feel guilty for not being there. You immediately feel like somehow you've done something wrong. Well, this is me. That's what happened.

I immediately started to feel that way. Oh my God, you know, the venting is not making me feel better. I thought it would make me feel better. And I'm wondering if it's because I can't hear you responding. So I'm putting my hand in my heart. It's okay, Mel. It's okay. It's okay.

So, Oak calls back and he says, all these cool adults stopped and helped me. We disconnected the battery and we were able to push the car over to the side of the road. Can you and dad help? I don't know what to do. And so I said, sure, you go to school, take a photo where the Jeep is, and we will get a tow truck.

Now by this point, Chris is awake, and he is reclined with a pillow and a blanket in the passenger seat. Now I'm driving up Highway 91, and he says, I'll call AAA. So Chris gets on the phone, and I don't know if you're like this, but I cannot out myself in situations where I'm stressed out. I cannot help myself.

I start stressing over how Chris is handling the call with Triple A. Tell him that you're going to a colonoscopy. Tell him that Oakley's in school. Tell him this. Like, I'm, and he's just like, shh, shh, shh, shh. And I'm thinking, shut up, melt, shut up, melt. And so I tell myself, five, four, three, two, one, just,

shh. Whew. And I'm trying to stay quiet as Chris is managing this call. Oh my God. I don't know what is wrong with me. I literally could not help myself. He gets to the near end of the call

and I go, can you please tell them that you're getting a colonoscopy? Because I'm thinking they will help you more if they know that you're going to the hospital. So we can't handle this. And then that way they know we're not irresponsible parents. It is so ridiculous. Chris is a 53 year old grown ass man.

He knows how to handle triple A. And here I cannot help myself. You know what I have? I have over functioning anxiety. That's my issue. See, there are two types of anxiety in the world. There is over functioning and there is under functioning. Over functioning is when you get into a stressful situation

and you become the helper, you cannot stop yourself from being the first responder. I'll do this, I'll do that, ordering everybody else around. Like you're a nightmare to be around. And on one hand, it is a superpower to have over-functioning anxiety. And on the other hand, it is horrendous to have it because you stop all over everybody else and everybody else's ability and capacity to handle things.

And you think you can do it better. And it's not even that you think you can do it better. It's that your alarm state in your body when you get stressed out goes into such a five-arm fire drill that you lose your ability to think rationally. And the truth is, Chris is perfectly capable of handling a call with AAA. In fact, he did it just fine. And I am capable of shutting up and letting other people help. But when you have over functioning anxiety,

you trample everyone around you. And you go into this mode where you're like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. And that's not all that was going on, by the way. Because Chris hangs up with Triple A, and I realize, oh my gosh, it's now 830 and I haven't heard from our daughter who has a virtual appointment with a doctor right now. And so I then call her and go straight to voicemail. And I'm like, oh, she must be on with it. And so I then call her back straight to voicemail, straight to voicemail.

And I realize, oh my god, she has slept through this thing. Because when I then call her back. Straight to voice phone. Straight to voice phone. And I realized, oh my God, she has slept through this thing. Because when I checked on her before I left she had an IMS con and she was kind of warm because she's been sick. And shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, shit. She's going to miss her appointment. Oh my God. And now the first responder mode goes on. And then the phone rings.

And it's Oakley. Dad, what do I do? I don't know what to do. Is the totor, I got to go to school. What do I do? So now Chris is talking to Oakley. And I'm now trying to reach our daughter who is missing her virtual health appointment. I spent literally two hours trying to get this thing set up. And then a school

administrator beeps in and she starts to tell Chris that she's more than happy to handle the situation. So what do you think your friend Mel Robbins does? Oh my God, my heart's racing. I literally start telling Chris how to utilize this amazing school administrator, Mary, who is calling to help. As she's going, hey, just, you know, I'm happy to meet the tow truck. Here's my phone number.

What do you want me to do? And Chris starts going, well, here, why don't you go get Oakley's phone? And when they call Oakley's phone and I'm like, talking And Chris starts going, well, here, why don't you go get Oakley's phone? And when they call Oakley's phone, and I'm like, talking over Chris, no, just have Mary, give Mary, tell the two truck-hearted, I am uncontrollable freak. And so, as I sit here in the front seat of the pickup truck

in a parking lot, outside of Dartmouth, Hitchcock, hospital. And I am calming myself down and I'm settling back into my body. And I noticed that in trying to take control, I just trampled all over everything. So with a little bit of grace and a little bit of compassion, I thought, why don't you and I talk about these two different types of stress response,

over functioning and under functioning? You're gonna learn the research around why self-awareness is critical and what you can do when you catch yourself in this situation. And the reason why you want to catch yourself is because, if you're somebody like me who just goes in, I got it, I got it, I got it mode, you don't let other people rise up and express themselves or rise up and help. And you burn out, you stress everybody out. And it's not a good thing.

You can help without being a freak monster like I was. And if you're more like, I don't know what to do, freeze, and you feel helpless, and you wait for somebody else to tell you what to do, and you wait for somebody else to tell you what to do and you question yourself and you start to spiral. That's not great either, because you need to learn how to advocate for yourself, how to step up, how to problem solve when that alarm goes off in your body. And that's what we're gonna talk about today on the Mel Robbins podcast.

Okay, I'm gonna take a deep breath. My heart is no longer pounding. And I am going to go find the nearest Starbucks or Duncan Donuts. And I'm gonna get a yummy cup of coffee. And I'm gonna get a snack for Chris. And we're to talk about over functioning and under functioning anxiety when we come back. Whew. MUSIC Christopher Robbins, your chariot awaits. Hi.

Hi. I'm a second. I'm doing awaits. Hi, my friend, I'm a second of you. Hi, Ansem. You're walking just fine after that. So fix me. Hi. How are you doing? Thanks, Ron. Hi, baby.

How you feeling? That's all your food. I would also love to talk to you about what a bulldozing stress freak I was this morning. Okay. Did you experience that? Yeah, a little bit. But I was more aware of just your ADHD or whatever you were doing.

You were distracted by something. Why was freaked out when Oakley called? You mean while we were driving over here? Yeah. Uh-huh. You were your typical stressed out self, so why don't we just take a drive home and deal with it when we get home? All right, you'll talk to me about it when we get home.

Yeah. Okay, cool. It's actually about when we get home. Yeah. So it is several hours after all of that that you just heard. And I am now upstairs above the garage in our house in Southern Vermont. Chris has taken his nap. And the anesthesia has worn off. I don't know how much of this morning he's going to remember. But I have invited him to come up here. And as Chris and I start to unpack it, one of the things that's important to know is that your response to stress right now,

it's automatic. And under functioning versus over functioning, it's not good or bad. Neither one is the one that you want. What the goal is today is for you to become aware of which one is your default, because when you become aware of how stress or anxiety or overwhelm or emergencies trigger an automatic response in you, you can then become more compassionate with yourself and you can also start to change it. And that's where the power is. Here it comes. Hey, so how was your nap? I know you slept off the procedure.

Hey, so how was your nap? I know you slept off the procedure. That was good. Awesome. Thank you for agreeing to come up here and unpack this with me. Sure. I would love to ask you, what is it like when I become like a tornado in those stressful situations. It's tough. I mean, sometimes it's frenetic tornado-like behavior, but often you become kind of just a bulldozer. And so all about your opinion or your angle or your solution. And nobody ever likes to feel like they're getting steamrolled over.

Is that how you felt when you were on the phone with AAA and the tow truck company? And I'm like going, give it to Mary, don't do the thing with Oakley, like what was that like for you? Yeah, that's precisely when you say tornado, that's what I was thinking of was that particular incident. It's always a little tough when you're on the phone with somebody and somebody outside of you is barking orders at what to do or say, because first of all, you can only hear out of one ear. And secondly, you're also trying to process what the other person on the phone is saying.

So you got a lot of input. And when the external input like from you, which was, do this, do that, you know, thinking 10 steps ahead while coming from the right place and wanting to be helpful, it's not helpful. It's sort of destructive to the conversation a little bit, or at least the attempt, in this case, that I was making to solve the problem. Now, that's not to say your input is not valuable, but probably the way in which you and I could both go about capturing that input, we could probably be better at. Definitely. Well, let's just talk about that moment that Oakley called because he called and he tried

you first and then because you were sleeping on the way to the hospital for your colonoscopy, he then called me because you didn't pick up and he was in the middle of the road and the card stopped driving and he sounded panicked. And I immediately in that moment felt overwhelmed and anxious and worried about him. And so like there was of a zero to ten, there was like an alarm ringing inside me that felt like an eight. And my mind started racing. Zero to ten, how stressful of an alarm was it for you? And what happens in your mind when something like that happens? I would say I was probably a three or a four. Maybe skewing more towards the three because we had

Oakley on the phone. He was not overly frantic in his own communication, but he was clearly going through a first time experience of having a car breakdown and being on the road or the side of the road. I don't think either of us asked him, are you safe, which would have been a good first question. We asked him if he was okay. He said, yeah, I'm okay.

Okay. Well, I think it's important to note that that small situation for you registered is a three, but for me it's an eight. So already our insides feel totally different. And when a situation like that happens for you, what happens in your brain because it's very clear that what happens for me is

I am 25 steps ahead, the second the alarm rings. Right. Therein lies part of the good and the challenge of it is that it's great to have somebody on the team who's thinking 20 steps ahead, but not if all the information hasn't been gathered yet and where at least I was in that very acute moment was trying to collect the information. And I was collecting it from Oakley and then I was collecting it from Mary. The school administrator. We still need to get flowers for. Yeah.

And the tow company. And the tow company. And AAA. And AAA. And I was on the way to the hospital myself. Well, this is a really important thing to distinguish because I go into hyperdrive as an over functioner. And I skip the information gathering or I get just what I think I need and I am already

25 steps ahead problem solving, problem solving, problem solving, problem solving. Whereas you slow things down and you go into researchers call it under functioning, but you go into a mode of slowing things down to process and collect information so that you can make decisions. This is all from Harriet Learner. She is one of the most respected and cited psychologists of our time. Under and over-functioning, these are terms that she first coined, as a way to describe the way people respond to stress and how it impacts their ability to function in those situations.

Harriet Learner has this phrase that I love. Because again, we want you to get out of the trap where you do this on automatic. I could feel myself wanting to talk over Chris when the call came in. And I'm like, shut up, Mal, shut up, Mal, shut up, Mal. Right. Where I get or I perceive judgment from you, particularly in a situation like this where you're barking and do this and do that, it's that there is an unspoken assumption that I am not in problem solving mode and that is not at all accurate. That while I may be slower to jump to the decision or you might feel like I'm being too methodical in my information collecting, I'm always thinking about a solution every step of the way.

I will take responsibility for the fact that that is true. And actually the research bears us out. Harriet Lerner found that over functioners like me who prioritize action action action action action and fast fast fast fast fast. And I got it and the way I'm going to do it's right because my anxiety is driving the problem solving. That when we are in a relationship with somebody who is in the slower fact gathering processing under functioning role, resentment builds up because we feel the pressure to carry the alarm. We think that the actions have to match the height of the alarm we feel inside and the slow, methodical processing nature of stopping to gather facts

does make it seem to somebody like me that this doesn't matter to you. Or it's not as important you. And I'm just saying, you're right. And so you feeling the anger or whatever, it is in me because there's a part of me that's like, why is he not matching the intensity? whatever, it is in me because there's a part of me that's like, why is he not matching the intensity? Like, this is important. And then I get mad because I feel like I'm all alone in thinking that this is a problem. And why aren't you like hyping up? And, oh my God.

And, you know, but they move the car, Chris. So why didn't you tell the tow company that the car's not in the place that you told him at what, like I get, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I'm, and it's all honey driven by an instinctual reaction. You and I have been trapped in a dynamic since we've met each other. So that's 29 years. I guess it keeps getting more.

Where I do this, I trample all over you when the alarm inside me rings, when the alarm inside you rings, you go in and you start to process. And you feel really not supported by me and I feel mad at you. And it creates this dynamic where you just assume Mel's gonna do anything anyway. So why bother? And it leaves you no room to really take the lead or to even problem solve in your own way

because my over functioning has fucking trampled you. And I don't like this in me. I'm not saying I want you to be more like me dear god no. But this is something that everybody has either they see themselves in you Chris. Or they see themselves in me. So what do you wish? Well, a couple things about that though. What's interesting is that the resentment cuts both ways. You know, you might resent me for not fighting fire with fire or responding how you would,

but when I feel bulldozed or that you're not giving me the space to do what I am equally as committed to doing as you are, which is solving the problem. Then I feel bullied, mistrusted, you know, like that I am not good enough in the approach that I'm taking. So the resentment does cut both ways, but the anxiety piece, I guess after 29 years,

there is a, fortunately, I don't cut you out altogether, but I take your anxious state with a grain of salt. And I allow it to be anxious and there, but I'm way better at having it throw me off. So you've been able to put up a force field. Little bit. You know, Chris, sometimes I wish I could put up a force field and protect myself from myself. You're insane. Harriet Learner does have some direction for us though.

She says that you need to learn how to hang in. And what that means is that when you're hanging in with the other person during a stressful situation, it means stop yourself from doing what you normally do. So her guidance is if you're like me hanging in means mal hold your tongue. So for anybody that is an over functioner in stressful situations, say 50% less than you would normally do. And Chris, her guidance for you is that when stress hits hanging in means as you catch yourself slowing down and you feel yourself kind of going quiet as you're processing, hanging in means don't leave me.

Make sure that you start talking more and telling me that you're processing because otherwise that silent processing, it creates anger inside of me because anybody that's an over-functioner in your silence, you start to feel abandoned. Like you don't care about what's going on. Right. I perceive judgment from you. I'm sure you do perceive that judgment, and I'm sorry about that. Why don't we just take a quick break right now so that we can have everybody

hear a word from our sponsors, and then when we come back, here's what I'd love to do. I would love to figure out not only using the research, but also just working together as a couple. How can we support one another better through these stressful moments? We'll be right back. Welcome back. It's Mel Robbins and I got my husband Chris here and we're talking about what you do when you get stressed out as the famous psychologist, bestselling author and researcher, Harriet Lerner says, you are either an over-functioner when you get stressed out or you under-function when you get stressed.

And so, Chris and I have been talking about this and Chris, I have a question for you. What do you wish I would do in these situations? I'm going to try to hang in, but I'd love to hear from you what would that look like? Like, how could I show up differently? Well, I think that with respect to the anxiety or the nervousness about it, to the extent we're not dealing with a life-threatening issue, we could probably be better about getting to the root of what the fear and source of anxiety is for you. If we had as much wherewithal to stop and have that conversation, like, okay, what is triggering the anxiousness? What's the worry? You know what I'm saying? Like slow down the, which with all due respect, I have little hope for us being

out there, slow down that conversation because your 20 steps ahead wanting to solve the problem and be crazy about it. This is why I want to talk about this with everybody because every one of us has an automatic, subconscious response to a stressful situation. And there is no doubt in my mind that you literally go silent and you process. And I hear you, you are problem solving and you are reacting in your own way.

And my automatic response is to move into hyperspeed action, because it simulates this feeling that I am taking control, of a situation that has triggered me to feel out of control. And one of the things that you could do, if I start barking over you is if you were to just turn to me and go, what are you afraid of right now? Or actually, what's scaring you, Mel? Because that would hit me at a more emotional level and it would allow me to feel like

you're recognizing that I'm not being a bitchy bulldozer, but there's something that actually is scaring me. And that would be the root cause. One thing that would help me respect you is if you would call me out. Well, by asking the question, what are you fearful of? You are being called out a little bit. Yeah, in a kind way. What are you scared of, Mel?

I would have said, I'm scared that he's alone. I'm scared that something bad's gonna happen. I'm scared that we're not there. I'm scared that he's gotta figure this out on his own and he's gonna feel anxious and feel abandoned by us. I'm scared of all these big things that aren't really an issue. The kid has a car that broke down.

Four blocks from the high school. Like, we're okay here, Mel, but there are bigger things driving this for me. So if you ask me, Mel, what are you scared of right now? It would help me at that. But then would you expect us to just set aside all of your spoken fears and redirect attention toward a solution that may not address your fears, or should we actually take those fears and say, okay, well, what we're going to do right now with Oakley is make sure that we're accounting for you.

You know what's cute? Is your even processing what I just said now? Like your problem solving and parsing. So you're even seeing this, you guys, in real time. Like Chris is seeking to understand he's gathering information. If you ask me that question, what are you scared of right now, Mel? It would have me turn toward the source and realize, okay, this is a neorational fear given the circumstances, handle the call. Just make sure you tell him that you move the car.

Bark, bark, bark. Bark, bark, bark. I'll tell you what would help me. I think what would help me is if, when that situation, if you were to just be like, I need a sec, I'm processing, or I need a sec, I'm thinking about how to solve this problem. So shut the fuck up, doesn't work? No!

You'd have to add in, shut the fuck up, I'm trying to solve the problem, and I can't with you fucking barking at me. That's probably not as kind as what are you scared of, honey? Yeah. And give me a second, I'm processing, I'll handle it. And that would help me do what I need to do, which is speak 75% less. Right. And not to digress, but part of the challenge that both you and I have as parents in situations like this with our own kids is that they do often get excellent counsel and problem solving from you real time fast.

And so it is a bit of a natural tendency of theirs to come to you for that. It's true. Are kids come to you to talk? And I admire that. They come to me for an emergency. I admire that about you, the 20 steps ahead, because there's some value and power in that. But I think that in situations where it just completely eviscerates the contribution I could bring to the table, then that's no good. I think that there is a happy medium that we can always improve upon and be more team-oriented versus my opinion is a better one than yours.

Our ability to function crisp based on the research comes down to your ability to make decisions, your ability to act on those decisions, and the ability to handle a motion. So if you put yourself in a situation where there is a real emergency. How does stress hit your brain? Like do you go numb? Does everything slow down? I don't know about slow down, but a narrowing of focus majorly and a little bit of numbness. Can you think of a time, Chris, zero to 10, when that alarm inside you was going off, you were stressed and overwhelmed

and you kind of went into this mode of processing? Yes, I would say recently with our daughter, Sawyer, and the trip that she took to Mass General and spent the day in the ER and getting all those tests, and we were in Vermont, not really knowing what was going on or getting third-hand information or being stone-walled by our daughter about not coming down. And interestingly enough, that was another scenario with the two of us where you were pretty hyped up. And I got to do this. I got to do that. And in this very expressive, frantic mode. And what I'm picking up on is that that day, it was heightened for me too.

And what I'm seeing in this conversation is that I was responding all day, but a lot of it was internal. And you label that as me, quote, processing. So there's actually a judgment inside of that, at least I feel, because while it doesn't on the outside look as though I'm 20 steps ahead with all gazillion types of solutions, you and I are still very much aligned in the sense that we are in the midst of it. Like we were both feeling that whatever heightened 8, 9, 10, 11, however you want to respond to

it about the situation, we were going about it in different ways. Well, the situation just to bring everybody in the loop is our daughter had been sick for like two weeks with weird symptoms, just odd symptoms. So she goes to a clinic on Friday in Boston, and they do a bunch of tests, and then send her to the ER at Mass General. And we learn about this at about 10 o'clock in the morning, and my immediate reaction was, I gotta go down. And our daughter is like you.

She narrows her focus. She said, nope, I'm good. They're just running some tests. A roommate of mine's gonna go with me. I'm a little nervous, but it's fine. I'll call you, I'm good. They're just running some tests. A roommate of mine is going to go with me. I'm a little nervous, but it's fine. I'll call you if I need you. Now, we live three and a half hours away. And I was ready to get in a car. And I said to Chris, I'm going to get in a car. And he's like, I just talked to her and she said she's okay. And so I didn't get the feeling from you that you were nervous at all. And all day long, I was saying, I really need to go.

I think I should go. I think I should go. I should go down. And Sawyer at every turn was like, it's okay, it's okay. And then finally at about three o'clock, when she said, they've just pulled 23 vials of blood, my heart's egg. And I got in the car and I went down and I got there and with your support. And you, I have to say, said, I got to stay here because we have two dogs. And part of me was even like, fuck the dogs, we'll get somebody to come over.

This is our kid. Like, we got to go. And I'm learning a couple of things in this conversation that's super helpful. Seriously. Yeah, let's hear it. As I'm getting triggered to over function, and I'm scurrying around, and I'm emitting all this nervous energy, and I'm scurrying around and I'm emitting all this nervous energy and I'm calling this person and calling that person and calling this person and calling that person and what should I do and I'm going to go and then she says, I never stopped myself in that busyness to go, what do I need to do? I forget about what Sawyer's saying, forget about what Chris is doing. What do I need to do for me? And the fact is, I learned a really important lesson. You do not ask somebody

if they want you there. If you feel called to just show up, get in the fucking car and go. And that is the lesson that I have learned from that. Because it was all of a sudden serious. And I could have been there then. But I didn't listen to myself in the beginning. Because I was so busy being triggered that I didn't actually get quiet to go, well, what in my heart tells me is what I need to do.

Even if she's walking out of the hospital by the time I get there. But that's, you know, that also points back to the question and the benefit of asking that question, what are you triggered by? What are you afraid of? Because had we had that conversation, you would have arrived at this decision about what you needed and you would have gotten in the car sooner than you already did. I would have gotten in at 10 o'clock in the morning and I'll tell you why. If you had asked me, what are you scared of? I would have said, I'm scared that she's going through something scary alone.

And I would have talked about a memory that I had when our son Oakley was six days old and he was rushed for life-saving surgery to Mass General, the same hospital, and we were told to go get our things and to prepare ourselves because he might not make it to the hospital and to pack our bags because if he did make it, we were going to be there for a while. And when we walked into mass general into the NICU and the doors swung open, Robin Halk and Lisa Schwartz were standing there. They had heard what was going on. They were two of our closest friends.

And Robin and Lisa just showed up because they had had kids in the NICU and they knew how scary it was. And they knew that we wouldn't know how to ask for help, that we just needed somebody there and they showed up. And I will always love them for that and I will never forget what it felt like to see two people there for us. And so I would have said, I'm scared that she's going to be in that hospital and be alone. And she was for 11 hours. And she learned a lot too about her under functioning and not pushing people away and asking

for help. So it was a huge revelation, but I think that question is more powerful than I realize what are you scared of. And for me, I'm learning that I need to stop myself. I need to stop talking. I need to stop talking. I need to drop into my body. And I need to work with you to help you unpack what I need to do for me in that moment.

Yeah, I would agree with all of that, except for the stop talking. I think just talking and inorganized, less tornado-like fashion is maybe more like it. Well, I'm kind of afraid if I open my mouth at all, it'll come out like a tornado. One more thing, what if I were to call you the trip leader? Because this is something else I would recommend people do. One of the things that has come up in our therapy with Dr. Cooper,

that has really helped our relationship in terms of identifying these dynamics, where we're not in balance, or we're kind of in our separate corners, is he asked me once to describe an experience where you were in complete control, and I felt totally safe and taken care of, and I said, oh, every camping trip we go on, every hiking experience, fly fishing, we're up in the mountains, we're in the middle of nowhere. Chris Robbins is my trip leader. I don't even think about anything. The man has it handled. I am never anxious.

I am never worried. He is in charge. I will follow this guy anywhere. And that has become my little nickname for you, my trip leader. And so instead of me... Not my trip leader, my trip leader. And so instead of me... Not my trip leader, the trip leader. Whoa. The trip leader has arrived, people.

Well, you're kind of my trip leader. I mean, I like to think of you as my trip leader, but you are the trip leader, especially when you're leading your retreats for sold degree for all those awesome guys that go on your retreats. I'm sort of making a little bit of a joke that, you know. So would you rather me call out that I need the trip leader right now? Yeah, well, I think we should try that for sure and see if it shifts something because

the interesting thing about what you say about like feeling taken care of when we go fishing or camping or something is that once again, I am always 20 steps ahead. Like I often feel like I am in real life too, but I'm doing it in a way that is not, there's not nearly as much outward expression in that solution-mindedness and thinking, okay, what's coming next? And how do we account for that? And so by way of maybe using that term trip leader, it would even be a reminder to me

to work us both into a more thoughtful, like all right, what's going on here? What's triggering the yanks? Let's get to the root of that first. That might be a helpful nudge. There's one final thing I wanted to say because I know you have some things you need to do this afternoon.

I'm also getting how it really sucks that you're not getting credit for the amount of hard thinking and problem solving and worrying that you are doing. I'm sorry for that. Thanks for saying that. I hadn't really spent much time thinking about that, but I think you're actually right, so I accept your apology.

Thank you. I love you. I love you too. Oh. And speaking of love, I want to be sure in case nobody else tells you today, whether you're an under-functioner or you're an over-functioner, I love you. I love you and I believe in your ability to catch yourself, to hang in as Harriet Lerner has advised us, to ask for what support you need from the people

around you, and to use everything you just learned today to create a better life. All right, hope nothing stressful happens in the next couple days, but now you know how to handle it. I'll talk to you in a few days. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach,

psychotherapist, or other qualified professionals. Stitcher Stitcher.