The Mel Robbins Podcast - The Best Relationship Advice You Will Ever Receive

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

This episode will change the way you show up in your love life - whether you’re in a relationship, healing from one, or hoping to find the right one. If your relationship feels stuck, if the spark is gone, if you’re always the one apologizing, or if you’ve been shutting down to avoid conflict, or you just wish things were a little bit better, you are not alone. What you’ll learn here will completely transform how you love and how you’re loved in return. Today, Mel is joined by one of the most powerful voices in modern therapy: Terry Real. Terry is a bestselling author, renowned couples therapist, and the founder of Relational Life Therapy. His private clients, including some of the most famous people in the world, pay $7,000 for a single session with him – and in this episode, you're getting his most transformational insights for free.This conversation is raw, practical, and packed with tools that will open your eyes and your heart. Mel shares vulnerable moments from her own 29-year marriage to her husband Chris, and Terry brings the kind of clarity that instantly changes how you think about yourself, your partner, and what love really requires.You’ll learn:-What to do when you’re the one who always gives-The mindset shift that makes real intimacy possible again-What to say when your partner shuts down, withdraws, or ignores you-How to hold someone accountable without turning it into a fight-Why most fights aren’t about what you think they’re about-And the habits that every successful relationship has in common This is a total reset on how you think about love, conflict, and connection. If you’re tired of repeating the same arguments, feeling unseen, or wondering if things will ever change, this conversation shows you how to break the cycle and build the kind of relationship you didn’t think was possible. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page.  If you liked the episode, check out this one next: How To Create Better Relationships: 6 Surprising Lessons From 28 Years Of MarriageConnect with Mel:   Order Mel’s new product, Pure Genius ProteinGet Mel’s newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration.Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-freeDisclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. So my husband and I have been married for 29 years, and let me tell you something that nobody tells you when you fall in love. Staying connected with your partner is harder than anyone wants to admit, especially when you're tired, especially when they're annoying, or when you're broke, or when life pulls you apart and you don't know how to find your way back to each other. I'm talking about miscommunication that turns into distance. You don't know how to close. And if you're in a moment like that right now,

where it feels like your relationship is slipping, you're trying, but nothing's landing. Or things are good, but something's off. I've been there. Husband's been there. And that's why I cannot wait for you to meet our guest today, Terry Real. He's one of the most sought-after couples therapists in the world. His private clients pay $7,000 for a single session.

And if you're gawking at that price, I'll tell you what Terry says. $7,000 is way cheaper than a divorce. Today, you're getting that same in your face, life-changing relationship advice for free. If you're single or recently broken up with somebody or you're still searching for the one, everything that you're about to learn from Terry Real is going to explain exactly why none of your relationships in the past have worked. And he's also going to teach you what changes you need to make

now. So the next relationship is the most loving, fulfilling relationship of your life. He's going to walk you and I through the habits of all successful relationships and teach you exactly how to change the dynamic in your relationship. So if you feel stuck, exhausted, unseen or quietly falling out of love. Don't panic. You're not alone, and this will be the turning point. This conversation with the number one couples therapist is the truth that could save your relationship.

One of the questions I get all the time is, Mel, how do you stick to your habits when life gets busy, especially when you're having to travel? I know you've wanted to know the simple tricks and tips that I use. And today I'm sharing three of the simple tricks and tips that I use with you. So I want you to stick around to the end of this episode for a special segment brought to you by Sheridan Hotels. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so glad that you're here.

It's such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you. If you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this with you, I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast. family. I cannot tell you how excited I am about today's conversation. I have been wanting to meet our expert for years. Today, you're getting a front row seat to a private session with the man who is considered to be one of the best couples therapists in the world. His name is Terry Real. He's the New York Times best-selling author of four books, a renowned relationship expert. He's been doing this couple's counseling for more than 30 years, and he's created an entire therapeutic model called

relational life therapy used by therapists around the globe. A private session with Terry Real would cost $7,000. And today, he is here in our Boston studios for one reason to give you his life-changing relationship advice for free. So without further ado, please help me welcome Terry Real to the Mel Robbins podcast. Oh my gosh. It's a thrill to be here. And bless you and thank you for the good work you're doing for the world. Terry, right back at you. Bless you and thank you for the good work you're doing in the world

and for the good work you're about to help us do in our conversation today. And here's where I want to start. How could my life be different? If I take everything that you are about to teach me today, after 40 years of wisdom and work and the things that you have learned and the truths that you know, how could my life be different if I take it all to heart and I apply it to relationships and to my day-to-day life? I'm going to tell you and listeners, viewers, the same thing I say to every single couple, I am inviting you on a rarefied path. It's demanding, it's sophisticated,

it's skilled, and it leaves the norms of this culture into dust. Listen, we've never wanted more from relationships than we do right now. Gone. Our grandparents, even our parents, side by side, pay the bills, raise the kids, no passion, no communication, fine, stable, good enough. That's gone. We want to walk hand in hand on the beach.

We want great sex in 70s and 80s. We want to be lifelong lovers. But we're trying to do that in the context of a culture that is not a relationship cherishing culture. We live in a patriarchal, and I'll go into that, individualistic culture that does not cherish relationships. I would like basic relationship skills taught in elementary school, junior high, high.

We need to know. how to pull off this new ambition of being lifelong lovers. Listen, getting the love you want literally means being a pioneer. If you're a heteroman, it means moving into vulnerability, which means deconstructing masculinity itself. Masculinity means being invulnerable. You open your heart, you are redoing what it means. to be a man. As we were speaking, standing up for yourself, not with shrillness, but with love and

power, is brand new work for women in this culture. As a people, we all need in our lives to be pioneers. We don't live relationally in this culture. We are individualistic and we are patriarchal meaning the basic, model is dominance. We control. We need to trade the dominance model in for the reality of our biospheres. We are interconnected. We are interdependent. If we stay on the dominance model, we will fry this planet. What you're doing in your living room is exactly the same work we need to do across this globe in order to render it a place our grandchildren will want to live in. It's a great ambition, but I like to say we have like filet-ignon ambition and hamburger skills. We need to catch up to ourselves. I love that you said skills. So there are skills that we can build to have better

relationships. And you did, though, say they were demanding. They are demanding. One of the great lies is that a long-term relationship is supposed to be spontaneous. There's lip service about having to work on it. But let me ask you a question. Yeah. How many times have you heard that relationships take work? My whole life. Yeah.

Anybody ever tell you what it was? Actually, no. Of course not. And that's where I come in. There is a relationship technology. There's a set of skills that work better. For example, I mean, we'll go over it. But just one example, it works better to ask your partner for what you want than to criticize

them for what they're doing wrong. Listen, in our culture, the way we try and get more of what we want in our relationships is we share our feelings about how miserable we are that you just blew it. That's how we try and get it. That's the worst behavioral mind. You don't treat a dog like, how about just punishing a dog every time they get it wrong? No, I talk about three steps of getting what you want.

One, this is the important one, dare to rock the boat. We're going to talk about that. Dare to tell the truth, but they have to do it skillfully. Two, once your partner's listening, help them out, teach them what you want. I would rather you do it this way than that way, honey, with love. And then three, when they start to give it to you, reward them. Don't criticize them while you did a half-ass job. Hey, you did a half-ass job.

Isn't that great? Let's get the other cheek on board while we're at it. It seems so simple. Tell the truth. teach your partner what you want and reward them when they do it, even if it's a half-ass job. Yeah, that's the best way of getting them to do more. Criticizing them for what they're doing wrong is about the worst way of trying to get them motivated to give you more. But we don't know these basics in this culture.

You know, I'm a family therapist for 40 years. The father of family therapy was Gregory Basin, the husband of Margaret Mead, And Bason's whole work, the birth of family therapy, is what he called correcting humankind's philosophical mistake, which is that we stand apart from nature and we can control it. Both wrong. And by the way, apropos of the Let Them theory, control can be one up.

That tends to be more traditionally male. Sit down, shut up and do what I tell you. Control can also be up regulating from the one down. That's codependent. That's enabling. That's trying, getting your partner to dot, dot, dot. That's traditionally more feminine under patriarchy. Intimacy, here's one of the first things I want to say.

To really move into the intimacy we want means nothing less than moving beyond traditional gender roles for all of us. Women have to move out of resentful accommodation, control enabling. That's what your book is all about. And the sort of my generation's early feminists shifted from the one-down traditionally feminine role to the one-up traditionally masculine.

I call that individual empowerment. I was weak, now I'm strong, go screw yourself. Yes. No, I was weak, now I'm strong, let's work together with a team. love you. I call that relational empowerment. And in our culture, man, that is new news. And therapy, 12-step sponsors, women's groups, men's groups, all individual empowerment. I wouldn't put up with that if I was you. Well, that's easy to say. How about roll up your sleeves? You love

each other. How are you going to make this work together? So there were so many things you just said that I want to dig into. I love this idea of very. relationship technology and skills that we can build. I also love that you're starting from a place of this larger container that we're all in, which is culture. I also appreciate the fact that the traditional gender roles, that a quote, man is supposed to act this way, a woman's supposed to act that way, that those are leading to a lot of dissatisfaction. Yes. in relationships on both sides. And there was something that you said

that I want to make sure we unpack. And that was the term resentful accommodation. What does that mean? Ask any woman on this tree. Well, I know what it means, but I... Well, what did it mean in your life? So resentful accommodation was, the biggest example that I can think of

is that when we were in a massive, financial crisis, Chris cratered, and his confidence in himself, his ability to believe in himself, the sense that he had failed as a husband, as a father to provide, that he had lost people money, as he was collapsing, I became more and more resentful, because, Because I felt like it was my job to then step up and save us and do what I thought should have been his job. Again, traditional gender roles that he's supposed to be the one that's the breadwinner. I'm supposed to make some money. That's our fund money.

And when that didn't work... You both cratered. We both cratered. The whole marriage crater. Yes. And so the resentfulness is kind of comes from that thing of I thought it was. is going to be this way, and I think you owe me something, and now I'm pissed. So now I'm going to go do this thing, you know, and go, like, make the money and get three jobs and do what I need to do.

And now I'm mad, because when I come home, like, the laundry's still there and all this stuff is still there. Like, you probably is a lot of the tone that you hear when you're sitting with couples. Yeah. And the interesting thing is, is that if I look at your three things, tell the truth about what you need, listen and teach somebody what you want, and then reward them. And it seems so simple. But when you're caught in that cycle of the emotion of all of it, and you start to pull away from each other, and that distance comes in, I think this is the heart of what you help people do. Well, you know, I mean, I don't need to be heartless, but I would look at the to everyone, I go, what a great opportunity.

Which is not, I'm not an empathic therapist. You want empathy? Oh, I'm sorry. No, look at how you both grew. And you cracked. Patriarchy cracked. One of the first things I have to teach people, and I'd love people to listen to this,

is healthy self-esteem, which is rare. Healthy self-esteem comes from the inside out. You have worth. You have dignity because you're a hero on this planet, you're a human being, no better or worse than anybody else. An unhealthy self-esteem comes from the outside in. And for many men, it's performance-based. I have worth because of what I can do. I have worth because of how much I earn.

And for many women, it's other-based. I have worth because you think I do. And that cracked for both of you. You were going to be taken care of by Prince Charming, but Prince Charming was drinking himself down the toilet and depressed as hell because his performance-based esteem had cracked. So, you know what? It doesn't mean there was something wrong with you.

It means there was something wrong with what you were both trying to live up to, and it didn't work. Yeah. The problem is, okay, so what was going on? this is one of the great things nobody gets. All relationships are an endless dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair. That's what you and Chris live through, big time. All relationships are an endless dance of harmony, disharmony, and repair. That's correct. And here's what I'm going to guess, because as you're listening right now to Terry, as you're watching this on YouTube,

First of all, I want you wherever you are, whether you're single, whether you're heartbroken, whether you're in a marriage that feels like roommates, whether you're recognizing the resentment that is coming up in your relationship. Terry is asking us all to look at where you're at as one giant opportunity. And when you say all relationships are either are an endless stance, of harmony, disharmony, and repair. I'm willing to guess, based on my own experience, Terry, being married 29 years,

that most couples are in harmony and disharmony. Harmony and disharmony, but no repair. No repair, because that's where the skills come in, and we don't know them. But also, two things. First of all, our culture doesn't even acknowledge the disharmony to begin with. A good relationship is all harmony. That's what you thought when you were young.

That's true. And you were bitterly disappointed. Yes, and aimed it right at him. Well, of course, he failed you. But you picked him. I'd like to say, we all marry our unfinished business. Whoa. Hold on.

We all marry our unfinished business. You got it. You know what? Young Mel could have had a guy that would have had a guy that would have done everything she wanted him to do. I guarantee you there are guys you dated who you would not have gone through this crisis with. They did not blip on your screen.

I call this the mysticism of marriage. The mysticism of marriage? Yes, we have the opportunity to heal our deepest wounds. Not falling in love means, oh, yeah, this person's going to give it to me. I'm going to be healed. They're going to give me everything I didn't get. good luck. A real relationship comes, I like to say, when you realize your partner is,

here's my quote, exquisitely designed to stick the burning spear right into your eyeball, that's the crisis. That's not a bad relationship. That's a real relationship. The question is, now what? Are you just going to repeat the same old same all? That's hell. Or are you going to wake up and do something different. The crisis can wake you up if you allow it, but you have to do it. And so there's a lot that goes into why we don't wake up, how to wake up,

and if we do stay awake, what the hell do we do then? What does unfinished business mean? Because it's true. The person that you're in a relationship with has an uncanny way to get under your skin piss you off, frustrate the hell out of you. You love them, but you want to kill them at times, right? Yeah. Definitely want to change them. Yeah. But what does unfinished business mean exactly for us?

It means that you are now exactly in the childhood wound that that son of a gun that you picked was supposed to never put you in. You have been fundamentally betrayed. You are back. You're with your crazy family, and your partner is just as chaotic, it turns out, as your dad was. Your partner is just as betraying as your mom was. Whatever the wound is, all of a sudden, it's in your face, and that's not what you signed up for. And you hate that son of a gun. You are talking to the guy, my favorite quote, is normal marital hatred. Normal marital hatred.

Normal marital hatred. My God. I've got to tell you, I've been around the world talking about normal marital hatred for 40, not once has anyone come backstage and said, what do you mean by that? You just don't say it next to the spouse you're sitting next to, right? But you feel it. We do. There is a part of me, and I used to say a part of me, there's a part of me that hates you right now. Yes. Okay. Here's why. But more important, here's what we can do to get the hell out of this thing together. Let's hold on.

So if we just take these, I'm just going to keep building here. So wherever it is that you are in that never-ending dance in the relationship. Yeah. that the partner that you're with or the relationship that just ended offers you the opportunity to deal with unfinished business right and the opportunity and the unfinished business is that in every single relationship that you're in your childhood crap comes up and their childhood crap comes up comes up and so is it safe to say that when you look at the person that you you're in a relationship with as an adult that you really are looking at, not the adult version, but really I should be thinking about Chris. Here's the little eight-year-old version of Chris,

and now he's my husband. It depends on who's there. As a therapist, my most critical question is not what are the stressors. It's not even what's the pattern. The most critical question, which part of you am I speaking to? We're talking right now, My wise adult brain is talking to your wise adult brain. Yes. Prefrontal cortex. Okay. Doesn't develop until 26 years old.

When you get trauma triggered, when Chris betrays you, when Belinda betrays me, in exactly the way I hired them to never do, God damn it, I get flooded. I get trauma flooded. And then what comes up is what we call the wounded child part of you. Very, just, you know, cry, cry, cry, rage, rage. Between this very immature part of the brain, and it's sub-carticle, it's a different part of your brain,

and this very immature part of the brain is what I call the adaptive child part of you, and that's what I work with. The adaptive child part of you is the you that you learned to be growing up in that crazy family. Fight, you know, that need your survival. Yes. Fight, flight,

or fawn, which as an adult means fix, fight, screw me, screw you. Flight, I'm shutting this down. And fix, oh my God, oh, my God, you're upset. Let me, it's not working on things from mature places and anxious overfunctioning is what you write about. Yeah. So fight, flight, or fix, it's in knee jerk, it's automatic.

You think it's an adult. It does okay out in the world, often, but it makes a mess of your relationships. So what makes life difficult is you're in harmony, you're in a wise adult. You get into disharmony, that prefrontal cortex out the window. And now it's automatic knee-jerk survival. And you do what you did as a kid, and it doesn't work.

And the more you do it, the more it doesn't work, the more frustrated you get, not with you, but with your partner. You have to take a breath. Take a breath. The first skill we teach people now is what I call relational mindfulness. When you're flooded, when you're triggered, take a break, walk around the block, take 10 breaths. Because what happens is when you move from harmony into disharmony, you get wounded. And then most of us have about 10 seconds worth of tolerance for that.

We don't stay in that wound, and we move into our automatic habitual response, and it doesn't work. Remember when I said, you're Mary unfiliting? That's healing? The healing comes when you can pull yourself out of that automatic, subcortical part of the brain and wake up. I call it relational mindfulness. Okay. I also call it remembering love. Okay.

He's not the enemy. is my guy. I don't hate him. I love him. We're struggling. What the hell do we do? I don't know, but let's talk about it. When you're there, then you can use the skills. But the first skill is getting into the part of you. I like to say other therapies teach you skills. What I've created, I call it relational life therapy, deals with the part of you that won't use them. Oh my God. Well, I once heard somebody say that one of the reasons why oftentimes therapy can help you really be aware of things and help you understand what's happening. But when you're talking to a therapist or a doctor or even a friend or you and I have in a conversation right now, you are using your prefrontal cortex. I'm present. I'm not stressed out right now. I'm not in fight or flight. You're not pissing me off. So I'm in the wise adult part of my brain. And so you and I may talk. Okay, next time I come home from traveling for 10 days, and I walk in the house, and there are dead flowers in dirty water sitting in the middle of the island in the kitchen.

There you go again. Which floods me. That's right. And I think, how many times did I? And nobody knows that I'm coming back. Does nobody know that I care? I go right into that, which I'm sure if Chris is in the next room and he hears that. the volcano erupting that is the wounded Mel Robbins.

He probably shuts down. It's not the wounded Mel Robbins. Because you don't go to Chris and go, you know, I feel my feelings are hurt that I come home and those flowers are dead. I don't feel cared about. No. Why would I do that when I can take a photo and send a passive aggressive text message? Why would I do that, Terry?

When I can dump the flowers out in the same. sink loudly and then throw the things in the trash as if I'm sending anger signal waves. Yeah. Like this was an old dynamic between us. Well, and a lot of other people, my marriage, too. So pull apart that. Well, when you're into hurt, you know, I feel abandoned. I feel uncared about.

And we could go into your childhood, but I'm sure that that has resonance. And, but like all of us, you have about two seconds worth of tolerance for that helplessness and vulnerability. And you go from the one down to the one up. You go from shame, helplessness, not cared about, to anger, indignation, what kind of person does that? And what's devilish about that is you feel better. It works.

Because I think, why does it work? Because grandiosity feels good. Shame feels bad. The wound feels bad. The adaptation feels good. It works. We're not so, look, we move into these defensive moves. Self-medication, rage, affairs.

They make a mess of our lives. But we're not so stupid that we move into stuff that feels bad. It feels good. Grandiosity feels good. That's one of our great contributions of my work. grandiosity feels good. It just makes a hash of things. So you have to take a breath.

You're a fighter. I'm a fighter. Go into the fighter. This is a shut or downer. Okay, well, there you go. He goes right into, don't talk. Bye. Goodbye.

Yeah. The more you rage, the more I shut down. And then that makes you so frustrated. Well, then you raise more. Yes, and then they shut down more. And then you, or same thing, if you're, fix her. Now I'm trying to fix this and now you're getting more angry at me or now I'm just trying to solve this and now you won't even talk to me. And so I can see how you get stuck in a loop with something.

Yeah, everybody comes to me in a loop. The more, the more. Wait, hold on. Everybody that comes to you, Terry is in a loop. And it's this loop of your adaptation of what you did as a kid. That's right. It makes his adaptation as a kid. I want to read to you from your New York Times Best seller us. This is page nine, and it's the chapter that is entitled, which version of you shows up to your relationship? There's no redeeming value in harshness. I'm the harsh one. I'll own it. I have a tone. I'm a fighter. Yes, let's take a look at just one of the immature qualities that are prevalent in our adaptive child. Yes. Harshness. I tell my clients that if they walk away from their sessions with me, with just this one concept, they will have spent their therapy money well. Here it is. There is no redeeming value whatsoever in harshness. Harseness does nothing that loving firmness doesn't do better.

That's revolution. That's life-changing. And by the way, Harseness between, are you being harsh to somebody? No value. Allowing them to be harsh to you, no value. And watch this. You being harsh to you. No value. How many of us think, well, I have to be firm with myself

in order to whip myself and, uh-uh. Think about the way we deal with kids on a good day. You don't have to be harsh to be firm. Be firm. You know, I'm 75. I like to tell my clients, at 75 I have a deal with the universe. If it's not kind, I'm not interested. And that's whether it's me talking to you or me listening to you or me talking to me.

You know, that adaptive child part of me is very harsh. I grew up with a violent father. and I was very violent between my ears for decades. Nowadays, that harsh critic, I know it's just my little teenage fighter, kept me alive. Okay, little 17-year-old shit-ticker, don't let nobody take a bit. Okay, got it, pal. You may have something to say to me, and I'll listen,

but you got to say it like you're on my side. Take that in. Say it like you're on my side. Then I'll listen. All right, Terry, I have so many more questions I want to dig into. And here's what I want to do. I got to pause so we can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words with you. And I want to give you a chance.

In particular, I want to give you a chance to share this extraordinary conversation and all of these tools and insights with your partner, with the people that you love, with people in your life that may be struggling in relationships. and don't go anywhere because a little bit later, Terry is going to share with you the one question. He says that you have to ask yourself if you're wondering, should I stay in this relationship? Should I break up? Is this person the one? Should I work on it? If you don't know if you should stay or go, you have to hear this one question because you will know the answer as soon as you ask yourself it. All right, don't go anywhere. Terry Reel and I will be back after this short break. Stay with me.

Welcome back at your buddy, Mel Robbins. Today, you and I are getting the truth and the tools that could save your relationship with the world's number one relationship expert therapist, Terry Reel. So, Terry, I want to jump back in and here's my next question. When you start to have this awakening that, oh, I do that, I'm doing this, or they do that, or do the other thing, what's the next step? Take a break. Take a break.

Stop it. Take a break. duck in, you know, I deal with all these tough-ass guys. I mean, NFL players, they're ducking into the bathroom, putting their little five-year-old boys on their laps and talking to them five, six times, literally five, six times a day. Take a break. Relational mindfulness, come out of that reactivity. Remember the person is not 14 feet tall with five arms. They're your friend, they're your lover, they're an idiot, just like you are, no better or worse. Calm, down, okay, now go back in the frame, use a skill. But don't try it until you're centered. First

step is getting centered. And, you know, how do you bring up difficult topics? With love. Who does that? Well, I was like, and how do I do that? Like, let's say that, you know, somebody's let their health go or that they're not motivated or they, or they, they, are not getting help for their depression or they seem to have started isolating and they're not seeing their friends anymore. How do you bring that up? And it's a difficult topic and it's something that has kind of led to standoffs or arguments and you just don't know how to even bring it up without the other person feeling attacked or shutting down? Well, you do your best.

And, you know, you could be taking a page from Mother Teresa, and they still feel attacked because they're in their adaptive child, and they feel attacked if you say, God damn, anything to them. And that's not your responsibility. It's theirs. But you do your best. So tenderness works better than harshness. Honey, sit down.

Let me take your hand. These are the things I'm noticing. I'm worried about you. You know, this, this and this. Give them the data. This, this and this. I make up, not you are, I make up, that you're depressed these days.

And I think it would be good for all of us if you did something about it. Look, I wrote a book on male depression back in the 90s. It was the first book ever written. And what I said, NIH did a public, service campaign about male depression. I said, if you want to help depress men,

aim your data at the women. This is not a moment. And this is our individualistic culture. Oh, he needs to call the doctor in. Yeah, well, good luck with that. How about I'll try calling the doctor. I'll get him in my car and we'll drive together. And if that doesn't work, how about this? We're going to go to a couple's therapy because I'm concerned about your drinking or your anger or whatever it is I'm concerned about, we've tried to talk about it, I haven't found a way to talk to you about it, we need help. So even if you think it's their problem, go to a couple's therapist and put it in front of them. Well, as I'm really listening to you, there are no problems that are their problems. Because every problem is our problem. Your relationship is your biosphere.

We're not above it. We're not below it. We're in it, baby. And it's in our interest to keep that biosphere healthy. How do you shift from me versus you to us versus the problem, especially in situations where the problem is you're drinking, or the problem is you're not motivated, or the problem is you've let yourself go.

Or at least that's what you think. You think the problem is with them. Well, first, have some humility is what I think. Or even more to the point, this is what I'm not happy about. This is what's not comfortable for me. Look, I'm working, you're not. I come home. You're on the couch drinking a beer.

The place is a mess. I got to tell you, Bill. I don't mind being the woman going out and being the breadwinner, but could you at least be a good wife when I get home? I mean, it sucks. That sounds a little judgmental. Well, but keep it personal. Okay.

Keep it humble. Keep it real. This is hard for me. You may not be uncomfortable with dot, dot, dot, but I'm uncomfortable with it. We live together. Can we talk about what needs to happen here? Is there a way to fight constructively? Sure.

How do you do it? This is what happened. This is what I told myself. This is how I felt. And this is what I want. But listen to this. Okay. That third step, this is what I felt.

Yeah. Here's a tip. Tell me. Take the feeling that comes to you first and put it last. Okay. Anger. So like if anger is the thing that comes up for me first. Yeah. Last. If you lead with big, strong,

checking your vulnerability. What's underneath that? Leave with that. Don't, I come home to dead flowers. You son of a bitch, what kind of person? No. I come home to the dead flowers. I don't feel cared about.

It's kind of lonely. I felt lonely. I felt lonely. I felt uncared about. And I felt angry. Last, not first. And conversely, if you're like codependent. And how do you know if you're codependent?

Because I think that that's one of those words that I feel like it's out there. And I don't even know that I really understand what codependent is. Well, you call it overfunction. Over-functioning? Yeah. Okay. It's that anxious, it's the fixer. Anxious.

So codependent means that you only feel okay when everybody around you is okay? That's right. Oh. And you're afraid to rock the boat. Oh. Oh. Yeah, that's what that means. Okay.

And so, look, your relationship is your biosphere. If you're a one-up fighter, like you and me, Belinda, come. come, your biostphrine needs you to come down off your high horse. My feelings were hurt. Oh, your biosphere is happy with that. If you're a one down fixer, don't set daddy off, your biosteer needs you to stand up and find some spine. How do you do that?

Like, what is your advice to the person that's listening and goes, well, that is me? I need to make sure that everybody's okay. I'm always walking on eggshells. Everybody else comes first, but then, of course, I'm exhausted and resentful because nobody's taking care of me. How do I stand up? How do I start to change that adaptive fixing little kid in me?

Yeah, well, turn to that kid because you learned to run around and fix everything as a little girl, a little boy. What would have happened if you hadn't done that in that family you grew up? The odds are all hell would have broken. We always respect the intelligence of the adaptive child. You did what you had to do. Good for you. It's time to retire.

You're not that little girl. Chris is not the family you grew up with. You can do something. Can I tell your story? Yeah, please. This is my classic adaptive child story. Absolutely true story. Okay.

A couple comes to me on the brink of divorce. He's a liar. Lies about everything. She says to him, if he asks him what color shoes he has on, he'll lie and say his sneakers. I mean, he'll lie. And therapists will, I walk in the office and I go, hi Bill, the sky's blue. He goes, well, it's not going to tell me it's blue. He won't give it to me.

So I get right away what his deal is, the adaptive child. He's an evader. Nobody's going to get him. All right. then I think, okay, the adapter child is adapting to someone, there's someone on the other end of that seesaw. So who tried to control you growing up? His father, true story.

Military man, how he said, how he ate his friend. What did you do with his controlling father? He looks at me and he smiles. That's resistance, that's why. He says, I lied. Dad said, don't play with Henry. I played with Henry. I told him I played with John. Smart boy. Good for you. Always respect the strategy that you learned as a kid, but retire them. You're in the back seat.

Wise adult is here today. I can take care of this better than you can. Literally, when Belinda and I are having a fight, honest to God, and she's coming at me with anger, because that's what we do. It could be me. I have little Terry. I've worked with him at eight-year-old. I've put him behind me. Between her anger and you, little Terry, is me. My big adult body. We have a deal. You're protected back there.

Her rage stops with me. Doesn't hit you. Here's your part of the deal. I deal with my wife, not you. You'll make a mess of it. So, okay. So he was my liar. So, smart boy.

By the way, you're not five anymore, and your wife isn't your dad. See ya. True story. Two weeks later, they come back, Han and Ann were cured. And they were a mill. I said, okay, there's a story here, tell me. Over the weekend, she sends him to the grocery store to get 12 things. True to form, he comes back with 11.

She says, where's the pumper-knuckle? And he's going to lie. Of course he's going to lie. He doesn't want to get chewed out by his father. And he said, every muscle and nerve in my body was screaming to say they were out of the bumper nickel,

which was not true. This moment, I took a breath. I thought of you, Terry. I was lending him my preflammal cortex. We can give that for each other. I thought of you. I looked at my wife in the eye, and I said, I forgot.

the goddamn pumpernickel. It's absolutely true, Mel. She burst into tears. And she said, I've been waiting for this moment for 25 years. That's recovery. Come out of that adaptive child, into the prefrontal cortex,

tell the truth, use a skill. Wow. I can see how this relates to that something you said in the very beginning. where when you fall in love with somebody, you think you're going to be rescued from the behavior in yourself that you feel stuck with, the rage or the, you know, shutting down or the lying or the, you know, walking on eggshells. Yeah, whatever you learn to do as a kid.

Whatever you learned to do as a kid. Whatever you needed to do as a kid. Yeah. And so I can see how in the absolute. bliss of a new relationship and you're just falling, falling, falling, you believe that it's always going to be like this. And sure enough, what comes up is the opportunity to do the work, to become the wise adult and not have the adaptive child and all of the default behaviors that happen when you get flooded emotionally or when you get triggered. And when you get triggered,

and when you really think about the person as it's their adaptive child in the room with your adaptive child when you guys are emotionally flooded. You got it. And any single thing, whether it's, I forgot the pumper-nickel bread, or it's the tiptoe walking

or the raging or the venting or the being right or whatever, like every single one of those things, whether it's triggered by Amazon boxes, Or it's triggered by pumpernickel, or it's triggered by their drinking, or it's triggered by absolutely anything. Anything. It's the same cycle. It's the same wound.

It's the same emotions. And you're going to be trapped there forever. And yours is where your work is genius. What we do, when we're back in the old wound, is we double our efforts to get that son of a gun to give us what they were supposed to give us. That's why we married them. Or we react out of that adaptation when they don't give it to us. We fight, we fight, we do whatever we do.

Yeah. Here's the new news. Take a breath. They ain't going to give it to you. Watch this. How about if you give it to you? You were abandoned as a kid. You come home, dead flowers, abandonment comes up.

Not 50-year-old now, 4-year-old, no. you turn to that four-year-old girl. Chris may be abandoning you right now, but I'm not. I'm here. I got you, kid. I like to say maturity comes when we deal with our inner children and don't voice them off when our partners to deal with. Oh, I love that.

Maturity comes when we deal with that inner child, that adaptive self that needed to do, whatever it does, whether it's the anger, whether it's the righteousness, whether it's a shutting down, whether it's whatever it is, when we deal with that person. Love you, kid. When the inner child, which means you're just, when you're reactive. Yeah. So talk about emotional flooding and emotional overfunctioning.

Is that the same thing as the adaptive child? Well, yeah, first you get flooded. That's the wounded child. Okay. And then you get yourself out of that flooding by moving into. your adaptive child. Gotcha. So, like, let's just take it as fat.

Well, you walk in and the flowers are dead. Yes. There's a little male that was not taken care of. And that's what gets triggered. Yeah. And you're not your adult self feeling let down in a moderate way. You're that four or five-year-old little girl who has never dealt with the way she should have been. And it's, you're flooded, but you don't like that feeling of helpless.

So you move from helplessness to attack from one down to one up. These are the roots of violence for all of us. Yeah. And the one up feels better. It gets you out of that helplessness, but it makes a messier marriage. So you have to think your way down from the one up. Well, recognizing that you're just emotionally flooded is important. Yeah.

Recognizing that you're now in react, react, react, react mode. which is by taking that breath and consciously pulling yourself back into the wise adult. Yes, which may mean did you take a 20-minute walk around the block? You have a contract with your partner. Look, hey, I'm flooded, see you in 20 minutes.

And, man, your partner says it, let them go. Don't corner an animal. Okay, bye, Ann. Don't corner an animal. No, you don't want to do that. That's incredible. Why does emotional overfunctioning and shutting down, why do these patterns tend to attract people into a partnership?

Because it's your unfinished business. So may I? Yes, please. All right, here we go, Mel, ready? Yeah. All right. So Fighter Mel, your adapter child is what I would call one-up and boundaryless. You're one-up.

You're grandiose. You're attacking your righteous. He's a deck. Yes, 100%. But underneath that are the feelings of abandonment, aloneness, which is your childhood wound. My friend and colleague Gabonormante says, in relationships, you don't see the wound, you see the scar. You don't see the wounded child. You see the adaptive child.

So you come home, dead flowers. Little girl, Mel, not cared about the way she should. should have been. And if you were to sit with her, she'd be crying. She'd be lonely, but you don't because that's painful. So you go, one up in the grandiosity, self-righteousness, attack. Now you're powerful, but you're making a goddamn mess of things. Take a break. And then you feel bad about it, because you don't want to make a mess of things. Well, at least I do. You feel bad about it five minutes later. Yes. You have a hangover. But in the. moment. He deserves it. You're right. Let's go. And that's what this is all about. Then you take a

break. Hold it. I'm about to lose my shit. See ya. Or hold it. I'm going to shut down. Let me get myself adjusted and I'm going to come back and talk to you. Whatever the adaptation is. You've got to sit with that little part of you. It's okay. He loves you. He loves you. He He's an idiot about the dead flowers, but he does love you. Come back, don't ream him a new one. That's not going to work. Come back and talk to them about what's going on. But you have to be in your right mind, and that's the opportunity.

The healing doesn't come when you get the son of a gun to give it to you. That's the dream. The healing comes when they don't, and you deal with it. Not the way you learned as a kid, but in a new way. That heals. Okay, that is the most important thing, in my opinion, that you have said, because you are now pointing at the source of power and healing. And one of the mistakes is that we are trying to get that from our partner and through our partner changing. Right.

And what you just said is that the healing comes not from them changing. The healing that you need comes from you stopping yourself in that moment, taking a breath, not allowing all of the patterns of the past and the adaptive child to come in and fix or freeze or rage. And make a mess. and make a mess, but to just see it happening and then bring the wise adult to the room and respond in a new way. That is the healing. That's the healing.

That's the opportunity. You know, for somebody who tends to hold everything in, you know, the baller, you see the thing that hurts your feelings, you feel the emotion that is worry or hurt or abandonment or the thing that. You said always take the first feeling, anger, resentment, put it in the back. What's the feeling underneath it? For somebody that's like bottling it up, bottling it up, bottling it up. They're feeling fear.

What are they afraid of? And they're afraid that if they tell the truth and knock the boat, it ain't going to go well. And as far, they grew up in a family where it wouldn't have gone with. Do you after child is not stupid. Do you learn to do what you goddamn needed to do? back then. But you're not back there anymore. That's the beauty.

How do you learn to communicate your feelings in these little moments instead of just putting it aside and putting it aside until you reach a breaking point? Well, you have to dare to rock the boat. This goes back

to the three steps. Dare to rock the boat and tell the truth. Listen and and then teach somebody what you want and reward them in a kind way. when they do. And for those of you listening, it may be that your childhood trauma, you know, we said you can have little injuries

and having it after child that's screwing things off, that's true. But you can also have big injuries, big. You can have grown up in a family where you learn not to tell the truth because if you did tell the truth, it would not be a good idea. Okay, that was then.

This is now. It really helps to separate the wise adult from the adapter time. I'm so glad you're sharing this with us because it feels like this is the playbook for how to show up better. I need to take a quick pause and give our amazing sponsors

a chance to share a few words. And I also want to give you a chance to send this episode to somebody in your life. Like, as you're letting this sink in, what if you sent this episode to your partner with a quiet, hey, want to listen to this together? And while you're sharing that, let's take a quick minute to give our sponsors a chance to shine. But stay with us because when we come back, Terry has even more tools on how to repair conflict.

So the same stuff doesn't just keep bubbling up. We'll be right back. Welcome back at your buddy Mel Robbins. You and I are getting the truth that could save your relationship or help you build the best relationship ever with Terry Real. Terry, the next question I have is this. What does a healthy, connected relationship really look like in practice? Telling the truth to each other with love and being human, you know, there are times, Belinda and I are at each other and I really wouldn't rent a video camera recording what it's that

like. I like to say to my clients, look, the skills I'm teaching, here's what I say, every skill I've been married for 40 years. Every skill I teach has been clinically tested. She's the clinic. And on those days, when either Belinda or God help us, if we both at the same time, lose our wise adults and just go with the adapter child, we look just as ugly as you too. I say that to my page. They love your own adaptive.

I'm just like you. use your skills as best you can expect the wheels to come off sometimes nobody's going to die when they do get back in your eyes you don't make amends apologize on your shit get back on track we're a biosphere we love each other let's work this out i can say every single fight issue breakdown that i have had in my 29 years of marriage, I can now 1,000% see that it's this feeling of being alone and that it's all on me. And it is like freaking clockwork. Yeah.

Once you see it, you will see it everywhere. Everywhere. And you know what? What a blessing. Maybe after this conversation, I want you to email me and tell me, what a blessing it would be for you to come home, the goddamn flowers are dead. And instead of ripping his head off, which he then shuts you down, you say to him, you know what, honey, shoot me.

I know you didn't mean it. I saw those dead flowers. I'm back in my little girl not being cared about. And it made me sad. You see what he does then. Yeah. Well, I can also not get mad at him. and I can also assume good intent.

And I can also know that, like, a lot of times he does remember. And this is like something we thought about 10 years ago, so it sounds kind of funny to even be thinking about it now because it's not, it's one of the ones. But the point is the little things become the big things because the little things are the source of bringing up. The little things resonate with what happened to us. So they take on bigger meaning.

but what you say is right you know I love talking to older couples and I asked them about their lines I saw it had to be late a buried 50 I say you guys seem we are tell me oh the first 15 years were hell really yeah horrible I kept trying to change Harry and then one day it was absolutely true I'm out of cotton

and then one day I looked at him and I went oh that's Harry okay ever since then we've been fine There is a place for, I call it scanning for the positive instead of scanning for the negative. Be appreciative. Tell your partner what they're doing right instead of always harping on what they're doing wrong. So there are so many listener questions that we have, and I'd love to read one from a listener in Chicago. We've been together for 12 years.

We love each other. There's no doubt about that. But if I'm being honest. It feels like the spark is gone. Same routines, same conversations, same habits, same everything. There's no fighting. There's no big drama. But there's no real excitement or passion either.

I don't even know what desire would look like for us anymore. It feels flat. And here's the part I'm struggling with. I want to bring that spark back. But I don't want it to be forced or fake. How do we actually reconnect with desire and intimacy after years to without pretending or going through the motions? What makes you think they would be fake?

Why should start off by saying to your partner what you just wrote to me? Why should you tell the truth? Look, I did a whole book, audio book, I called it fierce intimacy, lean in and deal with each other. Most people don't. We stop.

Because when we do, we're so unskilled, it doesn't go very well. So we back off, we say we're compromising, but we're not. We resent it. Distance grows. sexuality dies. If you want to keep your relationship juicy,

tell the truth to each other. Take each other on. Start with this. We're flat. Maybe you're okay being watching TV every night, but I'm not. Let's go do ballroom. And then like, okay, you're flat.

What are you going to do about it? You show up with a mariachi band. You, you know, you know, You go to the sex store and get some velvet chains. I don't know. What are you going to do to mix it up? Why are you waiting for your partner to do it? But tell the truth to each other.

We stop doing that because we're very unskilled. And when we do, it doesn't go well. We have to learn how to do it. Here's another question. I've been married for 11 years and I'm realizing I've become the critic in the relationship. I notice everything my husband does wrong. The socks on the floor, the way he loads the dishwasher, the tone when he talks to the kids. I'm constantly scanning for what's off or annoying.

And here's the thing. I don't want to be that way. He's a good man. I love him, but I rarely notice the good stuff until he points it out. Like, why is it that you only mention what I'm doing wrong? And he's right. I don't want to keep showing up this way. I just don't know how to switch out of this mindset.

How do I stop scanning for what's wrong and start seeing what's good again? What's going on in this dynamic? Because I think that's really relatable when he got somebody picking on somebody all the time. Yeah, it's a form of control. I would say, who was the complainer in your family growing up on? Where'd you learn this from? There's an adaptive child in there that thinks that picking at him is going to be a good thing. And then the other issue is, man, intimacy is scary.

Vulnerability is scary. Does it feel safer to be constantly nagging? what's wrong, did to open up and receive what's right. And that's so true for all of us. And the more damage you had as a kid, the more frightening it is. We fuss with each other because being close to each other in itself can be trauma-triggering. It's scary to be vulnerable and close. You have to allow it.

that's the piece I work with next. First, we deal with what you do wrong. We deal with where it came from. We give you the skills to do it different. Now you have to receive it. And that's brand new for a lot of us. And it's frightening. I talk about miserable, comfortable, happy, uncomfortable.

Let's talk about miserable, comfortable. What does that look like? It looks like the same old, same old. You could do it in your sleep, but you could do it in your sled. You're perfectly comfortable there. Chris, honey, when I came home, and those flowers were dead.

I was back in my family and I didn't feel very cared about. How's that feel? Freaking scary, that's how that feels. It's a lot more comfortable to go after them. Adapted children, you're safe, you're comfortable. You could do it in your slave. Wise adult, new, courageous, scary.

Good. Go there. With help, with support, 12-step group, women's group, but support that will support your relationship, not your individual power. What's so interesting is everybody wants love and wants to feel loved. And I'd never thought about it as a skill

to allow yourself to be loved. Yeah. And it's hard. So when I'm working with a couple, partner A starts giving partner B what they want. Now we move into what I call transmission reception. Partner A is transmitting. How does partner B doing receiving? When your partner starts giving you what you want, do we fall in their arms and go, say, no, we don't.

It's too little too late. You did it, but I had to ask you. All these yes-buts, just to protect ourselves from the vulnerability of being loved, allowing our hearts to open, allowing the love in. That's scary. And the less love you had as a kid, the scarier it is. to let yourself love and be loves and sort of doll. I have to tell you a story. Oh, tell me.

About the nitpickers. Yeah, the nitpickers, please. I was doing a man's group, and one guy floored everybody. This is a true story. He said, my wife walked in today, told my ad man,

hold the phone, she had a picnic basket, laid out a picnic on the ground, champagne, a little smooching, packed up everything, and left. All the other guys are like, oh, my God, that's fantastic. He looks at us all, the true story.

He goes, it almost makes up for the way she chews her potato chips. You want a foster, your partner's imperfection, they will give you, it's like fission, endless opportunity to, no, be brave, open your heart, be vulnerable. If you're a one-down fixer, the vulnerability is standing up for yourself. That's what's scary. If you're a one-up fighter, the vulnerability is moving into the herd. Be a human. But either way, open your heart, take some risks.

Intimacy is what we're born for. And respect it. It's frightening. So is that story and the joke an example of how somebody, blocks out the love and intimacy. Yeah. Yeah. I did work with the great feminist psychologist Carol Gilligan here.

We would work together. And I called it Carol's invariant description. I'd be doing all this fancy, cool. Sorry, Carol. She said the same damn thing every time. She'd look at a couple and she would go, you know, Bill and Julie, intimacy's really scary, isn't it? You guys were just close to each other.

And then Bill, you brought up a fight from a week ago until you took the bag. Now you're back in your corners, safe and miserable. Isn't it hard to just be in the naked vulnerability of loving each other and being close? And every time, of course, it would be beautifully timed. Every time she would say they burst into tears and she was always right. It's scary to be intimate. It takes courage. I'm 34 and I'm realizing I have no idea how to be in a healthy relationship.

I either give way too much. I over function. People please twist myself to the knots trying to keep everyone happy or I do the opposite. I shut down, shut people out, convince myself, I don't need anybody. I swing between the two. It's exhausting. It wasn't modeled healthy love growing up and now that I'm older. I don't even know what healthy is supposed to feel like.

How do I start figuring that out? what does a healthy relationship look like and how do I learn to trust myself enough to build one? Well, I brought up Carol Gilligan. Here's one of my great quotes from her. I love this. You cannot love from the one down

that's running around, cleaning everybody's mess. You cannot love from the one up. Shut down, I don't care about anybody. Love demands democracy. So this person has to learn how to be in the biosphere. there's no relationship without voice, there's no voice without relationship.

That's also terrible. Can you do this with yourself all day long? Like if work is pissing you off, if work makes you shut down, if a friendship makes you get angry? Yeah, although what's interesting is we tend to be more on our wise adults with everyone but our mates. And sometimes our kids, they just don't get at us. in the same way. But yeah, your adapter child's all over the play. We do consulting to teams that aren't working.

No, but I meant like if she's single, and so she's not in a relationship. She isn't a relationship. She has a relationship. She's got parents, she's got friends, she's got siblings, she's not a dog. We're all in relationships. And it's the same skills and the same work.

Got it. So if the question is, I look at my track record and I do not trust myself, and I don't know how to do this and it wasn't modeled. And you've already said, Terry, it hasn't been modeled for anybody and nobody teaches these skills. You can start applying absolutely everything.

Now. Right now. Right now. Even if you're not in a romantic relationship. You're still in relationship. Yeah, you're still in relationships. And so these are the tools that you can use for any relationship. This way of thinking, relationally, not individualistically.

and these tools, telling the truth with love and not harshness, but telling the truth, they're so different from the culture at large, and they're so potent that doing them badly will transform your life. And here's the great news, you can start doing them badly right now.

Go ahead. Because it's such a disruption to the way we run around and pretend and lie and please and shove our feelings, down and rage that's simply trying to do these things badly, telling the truth, using eye statements, not venting, not trying to be right. Your partner will be blown away. Well, you'll also be blown away.

You should be. By yourself. It's a happier way to live. Well, I often joke, Terry, that, you know, people say that second marriages are really amazing, and I say that's especially true if it's with the same person. Wow. And I feel like the tremendous amount of work that I've done on myself and that Chris and I have done together, it feels like a completely different relationship because I feel way more peaceful. Yeah.

And I was, I know you will say this is probably not true because we're all out of control and we don't understand that adaptive child and the behaviors that come out on automatic when you're emotionally flooded. but I felt so out of control with my anger, with my frustration, with my feelings of being alone, even though I'm married, that I thought it would always feel that way. Yeah. And it's shocking how quickly you can start to apply these skills and feel more peaceful and in control and in harmony with yourself first. That's the joy.

Yes. And you also get a better relationship. Yes. It's both. What happens? Can you speak a little bit about that feeling of your inner relationship and yet you're really lonely? I call that alone together. Alone together?

Yeah, being alone together. And it's because you're not telling the truth and you're not getting through. You know, that cliche of the couple at the restaurant that's sitting there with nothing to say. Oh, my God, you see so many. Yeah. here's what I say. It isn't that they have nothing to say, if they have too much to say and no way of saying it. That's why they're sitting there inside. If the person listening is feeling like, okay, I'm together alone, what am I going to do? I'm going to start telling the truth

and blow this whole thing up? Isn't it better to just be together alone instead of blowing up my life? I mean, first of all, learned. Because I think that's the fear. Well, of course, it's the fear. And if you go off like a seven-year-old adaptive child, what I call individual empowerment, I was weak, now I'm strong, go screw yourself, the person may blow up. So getting through to somebody as an art, you have to learn how to do it. But even that is just maximize your possibility. At the end of the day, it goes like this. First, learn some skills. Do it well. Beating the person over the head probably has something to do with why they're not listening to you. Two, once you learn the skills and you do your best, if you're still not getting through, get help,

get couples therapy, and get a couple's therapist who really helps, which maybe don't. three, you ready? If you're still not fully there, I have a tool. Should I stay or should I go? And I call this tool a relational wickening. And it's a question. You ready?

Yes. Am I getting enough here to make grieving when I'm not getting worth my while? Am I getting enough to make grieve? grieving what I'm not getting. Okay with me. You know what?

Bill was a real playboy, real lover, and he had partner after partner who swung from chandeliers. He's now married to a woman, one out of four, who has a sexual abuse history. She ain't swinging from chandeliers. She needs it slow and adrenaline.

Does Bill miss the wild old days? Yes. That's okay. Is you going to trade her in for one of those crazy sex dolls? No, he loves her. I'm getting so much that letting go of what I'm not getting is okay with me. And if that's your answer, stop bitten and embrace what's good. If your answer is it's not okay with me, first stop is therapy and second stop is you're done.

but don't keep living like a resentful victim. It's bad for everybody. I'm just letting that sit. Because it's easy to get yourself in a situation where you stay with the wrong person and you're right about how resentful you are and what a victim you are. Why are you staying with the wrong person?

First of all, your first shot is turning them into the right person, which I know goes against a little of what you've been saying, but you turn them into the right person by using your skills. Well, they don't even have an opportunity to be the right person if you haven't done the work. Of asking for the way. And also bringing the wise adult yourself to the relationship and then seeing who shows up when you're safe and when you're wise

and when you are in the moment and calm and kind and asking for what you need. You totally got it. What does that mean they're the wrong person? And maybe if you change your behavior, guess what happens on the other side of the Cecil? Maybe. But why don't you give that a shot? You know, everybody who sees me is what I call an essentialist.

What's wrong with my marriage? Them. What's wrong with them? Them? That's who they are. You know, it's true story. Harry, whatever's name was, comes, no sex in my marriage. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

How long? decades. Why? She's frigid. She's just a cold person. All family cold. Good. I bring in Mrs. Harry. No sex. No, of course not. Of course not. Yeah, you wouldn't want to have sex with him. He's a premature ejaculator, has been for decades. If I try and talk to him about it, he just flies into a rage. He has no interest in my needs. And anytime I try and address it, it just gets, forget it. I bring in Harry. This is a true story. Harry, I've got great news for you. That sexless marriage you're in, you have something to do with it.

Once you stop blaming the other person and start to see that it's a system, if it is, you change your behavior and then see what happens. But first, change your behavior. So did they stay together? Yeah. They started having sex. She taught him how to be able to. better lover and he was with, I mean, this is where I come in. Harry, it's in your interests.

Come down off your high horse. Let her teach you. You want her in bed with you? Make it worth her a while. That goes back to it. Make it worth her a while. Uh, okay. I will. Good. Do it? That's what most therapists don't do. Do you think any relationship can be repaired? No. And I'm I'm not in the business of repairing every relationship. So what are some of the circumstances or, like, lines in the sand for you that are important to say? In terms of non-starters, it goes without saying, but if you're physically in danger, if you're talking, I don't ask people to tell truth to power when they're going to get hurt if they do it. And there are unfortunately some reality to that. So we don't do couples therapy if there's a threat of domestic violence.

If you're the victim of honest to God physical threat, get some help, get some safety. That's not couples' work. That's your work to get safe and your kids safe. And that is absolutely intolerable, period, end of story. Some are obvious. Somebody's got an addiction. They don't want to deal with. Alcoholism, sex addiction.

someone is chronically irresponsible and they don't want to deal with it. Somebody has a major mental health disorder, depression, they don't want to deal with it. All that's a role. Then some are more subtle. If there's a relationship where there's a clear asymmetry in the maturity levels of the two people, eventually the immaturity of the immature, one will be too painful for the other one to live with, and they should go, go find a better partner. But before you go find a better partner, see if you can get this one to be a better

partner by changing your moves on your side of the net. First try that. How long should you be with your friends and family about the challenges in your relationship? Like, where do you see the line from just sort of healthy sharing and, you know, trying to get support because you feel like you can't, or whatever reason versus sharing way too much that might hurt the partnership? Not family friends. What do you mean not family friends? Well, you don't want your mother-in-law listening to Chris Bidge about what a rager you are. You don't want that. No.

You know, one of the biggest fights that Chris and I have ever had in our 29-year marriage was the fact that he shared things with his mom that we were struggling with. Like, he went to her for help. I was so angry about it. I felt so, like, betrayed. Because it felt like I was no longer married to Chris. It felt like I was now married to her son. and she was now in the middle of this issue we were trying to work out privately. And it caused a major rift, not only between me and Chris, but I felt all of this distance with my mother-in-law who I'm really close with, but for at least a year, like, I just, it was really awful.

And I know he didn't mean it. And I know he was just looking for the support that he needed. but wow, I have to say, do not go outside your marriage and bring in your family. It's not fair to your spouse because you're not in a relationship with your mother-in-law. You're not in a relationship with, you know, your partner's not in a relationship with your dad. They're in a relationship with you. So give them the respect to work on it internally. Oh, I'm so glad you said that.

I'm so glad you said that because while the intention, I think, was beautiful, the actual impact and result was very difficult and damaging. And we've, of course, cleaned it up and learned from it, but wow. Now, what about friends, though? Because you said friends are okay? And what are the parameters? I teach people this. Train your friends to support relational empowerment, not individual empowerment.

Okay, what does that look like? Train your friends to support the relationship. not you as an individual. If they're going to support your marriage, then you can bitch about your partner. But if they're going to take your questioning about your partner as license to empower you at the expense of the relationship,

that's not a friend you weren't. So what happens when you talk about your relationship? And even that, you're not passing. You can train your friends to support the relationship so that it's safe to complain. You know, I complain about Belinda. She complains about me. Our friend's lesson, and they go, okay, have you ever thought that maybe you might dot, dot, dot?

Oh, come on, man. Think about it. That's a friend. So you just say to them, I need you, I'm going to come to you, I want to talk to you about something going on, but I want this to work. You know, I love him. Is that how you say it? Like, how do you say it? Yeah.

You're empowering me to even be more of a fighter, even more righteously indignant. Dad is no help to me. So if you're going to be my friend, I'm going to talk about my marriage, this is what my adapter child looks like. You know that. I don't need more support to be a fighter.

Or Chris would say, I don't need more support to shut her down. Take a look at what I'm saying and then give me some advice and support about what I can do different. Terry, could you speak directly to the person who's listening or watching right now? And if they take just one action based on everything that you have taught us today, what do you think the most important thing to do is? Listen, first figure out if you tend to be one up or one down,

if you're one down, have some courage with love, not harshness, leaning in deal. If that doesn't work, get some help. If you want to, get off your goddamn high horse. Show some vulnerability. I don't care if you're right. Right is not going to save your marriage. Ask your partner, what do you need?

come off of your selfishness and lead in a new way. If you're small, get big. If you're big, get small. Try something new on your side and see if that changes things. I love that if you're small, get big, if you're big, get small. I mean, if you're small, get big. And if you're big, get small. If you're one up, come down.

If you're one down, come up. Democracy, democracy, democracy. Meaning it's we. We. It's not me above you. And it's not me. Or it's not me below you. No.

It's me. So when you say one up, you mean you're the one who's acting big in the relationship and you feel above the person. Right. And when you say one down, you're saying you're now small and scared and you feel below the person. Right. Oh, so the one up is you're big and that's loud and angry or righteous or venting or any of that stuff. And one down is you feel small and you might be fixing or you might be shutting down or you might be pulling, like it's the... Find some courage. Find some courage.

If you're one up, yield. Open your heart. Surrender. Be vulnerable. If you're one down, lean in. have courage. Stand up for health in the relationship. It's not even standing up for yourself. Stand up for the biosphere. A lot of women in particular think, it's selfish of me to stand up from my knees. No, it's good for your biosphere. Stand up for the biosphere. Terry, I know this conversation is going to spread around the globe and that so many people are going to, listen and feel their hearts and a new possibility open. I hope so. And then they're going to hit share and send this to their partner and say, could you listen to

this, please? Good. I would love to have you speak directly to the person who is here because their partner sent this to them. Great. Love that. What do you want them to know? This is what I want you to know, my friend.

It is in your interest to learn how to do this. It's in your interest. We are born to be relational. If your partner is giving you this episode, it's because they want you to open your heart. They want you to be a more relational human being. This is what we're born for, as a species. This is what makes us healthy, not just mentally, but physically. We are born to do this

work. It's been lost, and we need to retrieve it for ourselves, for our families, for our children. If you don't want to do this for yourself and you don't want to do it for your partner, do it for your kids. They need you to open your heart and be in a functional relationship and do it for the planet. We are treating mother nature out of this dominance model. It's obsolete and is suicidal. Learn to do this differently. You'll live 10 years older. Your partner will be happier with you. Your sex life will improve and your kids will talk to you and you might actually do something to save the world. What the hell? Give it a shot. Thank you for saying that because I don't want somebody who receives this to experience it like, oh, they're trying to fix me, they're trying to change me. It's really an invitation. It's an invitation. And I want to say, I admire your heroism to even entertain the possibility. This is hard. I started off by saying this. This is not easy. But the rewards, it will give you,

You're a family, your children are almost inexpressible. It's hard work. Look, break the chain. Terry, real? You're real good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing.

And thank you for being here and sharing all of this wisdom with us and giving us tools so we can practice these skills so that we might. just heal ourselves and in the process make our relationships better. You're wonderful to speak with. You're a wise woman and it was hard one. It takes one to no one. So bless you for the work they're doing too. And I also want to thank you. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this. Thank you for really letting what Terry was teaching us sink in. Thank you for sharing this. with your partner, with the people that you care about. There is no doubt in my mind that if you take everything to heart and you use the tools, especially those four questions, I can't wait to share this with my kids, with Chris,

oh my gosh, there's no doubt in my mind that your relationships are going to get so much better. And in case no one else tells you today, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend, that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. and if you apply all of the advice that you just heard, there is no doubt in my mind that your life will get better and so will your relationships. All righty, I will see in the very next episode. I'll be there to welcome you in the moment you hit play.

This is Terry Real, keeping it real. I'm excited, though. I've been wanting to meet him for a long time. Why would I do that? When I can take a photo and send a passive aggressive text message. Why would I do that, Terry? When I can dump the flowers.

out and the sink loudly and then throw the things in the trash as if I'm sending anger signal waves. Yeah. I'm like this was an old dynamic between us. Okay. Hold on a second. Here comes. Sorry. Bar Taco, baby.

Burp is brought to by Bar Taco. Okay, here we got. All right. So this is, okay, great. We go to the top, hon. You're not alone. This com... Don't panic.

You're not alone. Terry, you're really good. Hey, I can do a ton of puns on your last name. This is real advice and very direct talk. I love this. Great job. Excellent job. And one more thing.

And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.

Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. This segment is brought to you by Sheraton Hotels. If your life feels nonstop airports, hotel rooms, or you're just going from Zoom to email to email to Zoom, or you're just always on the go. Here's what I've learned.

It just comes down to a few simple habits and the spaces that help you stay connected to yourself. That's why I love what Sheridan's doing. They've completely transformed their hotels. At the center of it all, the new lobby experience, designed to help you gather, work, or just unwind without missing a beat. And one of my favorite things, gatherings by Sheridan. These are free, curated experiences, everything from culinary experiences to learning to play

the ukulele. Gatherings at Sheridan creates something for you to do and a sense of community, even when you're far from home. Sheridan's not just a place to stay. It's a place that helps you stay connected to yourself. So I have a confession. In the past month, I have only been home. home for eight days. That's 23 of the last 31 days. I've just been on the go for work. Maybe you have

a career where you're nonstop on the road too. Maybe you're in a period of work where you might as well be traveling because you're there day and night. Or maybe you're not flying across the country, but you're still running from here to there. You're running the kids around. You're running the house. You're running the show at work. You're running on empty. I have been getting email, email from listeners just like you saying things like, I feel so disconnected. I am so exhausted running around. I think I'm losing myself a little more every day. Sound familiar? So it begs the question. How do you find your way back? Well, I want to tell you the three simple things that I do that always bring me back to myself at home, on the road, wherever I am, no matter how

busy life can be. Number one, take yourself for a walk. I take myself for a walk every single day. You don't have to go for 10,000 steps. You don't have to break a sweat and make this a workout. This is just taking yourself for a walk. And that one walk, it's going to give you more energy. It'll improve your mood. It'll help your focus. And it will boost your health over the long term. And what I love about walking is that you can do it no matter where you are. And so when when life is just nonstop and completely overstimulating, what's the first thing you're going to do? Just take yourself for a walk. All right, the second habit that is on my list that always instantly makes me feel like myself again,

fit in friends. I'm serious about this, fit in friends. See, when I'm traveling, I don't just plan work. I plan people. I'll give you an example. So this past month, I was in a bunch of different cities and one of them happened to be Austin, Texas. I carved out time to see my good friend. We hung out for a little bit. We caught up. We had breakfast. Next stop was Los Angeles, where of course I carved out time to spend time with our daughter Kendall, but I also found time to fit in my friend Leanne. We literally met for coffee for 15 minutes. So just take a look at your week. Do you have time to fit in a friend? Could you invite them on the walk in the morning? Could you have a coffee date? How about a 15 minute call? Make it happen because it matters.

And the third habit that I have, in the middle of a busy life, tuck yourself in. You need something that you're doing to signal. Okay, days over. And for me, number one, a bath. I don't care if I'm at home or a hotel room. I run hot water. I slip into the tub. Oh, and I just breathe.

Maybe for you, it's not a bath. maybe for you tucking yourself in means, okay, I'm going to stretch or I'm going to journal, whatever it is, protect it. So if you're in it right now, you're juggling everything, you're chasing your goals, and you're trying to hold it all together, I want you to know you're doing a really great job. And remember this, you don't need life to slow down in order to feel grounded. You just need a few habits that travel with you. Number one, take yourself for a walk. Number two, fit in friends. And finally, tonight, tuck yourself in.

Three habits that will keep you steady and bring you back to yourself. And you deserve to feel like you again, even in the middle of everything. I want to thank our sponsor, Sheridan Hotels. You know, so many people love Sheridan because they've designed their hotels with busy people like you and mine. You know that moment when you're deciding, do I stay in my room or try to work from the lobby at Sheridan? you don't have to choose. Go to the lobby because they've created spaces that work wherever you are, private booths for phone calls, studio spaces for team huddles, long community tables, and even standing desks. It's all designed to help you plug in, stay focused, and keep moving.

Sheridan, the World's Gathering Place, part of Marriott Bonvoy. Book now at sheridan.com.