The Mel Robbins Podcast - The Life Experiment Theory: One Rule That Changes How You Do Everything

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

This episode is a MUST listen. If you feel stuck right now - whether it’s with your health, your job, your habits, your relationships - this conversation is for you. Today, you’re getting a new framework that helps you create an instant shift, and it comes from one of Mel’s favorite thinkers on the planet: Mark Rober. Mark is a NASA engineer who turned his love of science and education into the #1 science education platform in the world, with 72 million YouTube subscribers. And here’s here to teach you a completely different way to approach goals, confidence, and happiness: Treat your entire life like an experiment. Mark has spent his life turning failure into data, setbacks into experiments, and high-pressure work into play. He has synthesized every single thing he has learned into a few simple tools and strategies that he is teaching you today. His personal framework, rooted in engineering, will help you achieve your goals, improve your habits, be happier, make better decisions, have more fun, and become more confident. This is about thinking like an engineer, not to build rockets, but to build a better life. You’ll learn: -How to make your goals more fun so you stick with them -What the Super Mario Effect is and how it will change how you think about “failure” forever  -A stress-free way to choose your next step when the future feels blurry You’ll also learn the lessons behind some of his wildest experiments, his simple method for beating overwhelm and uncertainty, and a specific message for teachers. If you’re tired of overthinking, afraid to make a move, or bored with your own excuses, this episode is a masterclass in engineering your way forward and turning failure into fuel.  For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page. If you liked the episode, check out this one next: 3 Questions to Ask Yourself to Figure Out What You Really Want.Still looking for a holiday gift?One of Mel’s favorite gifts to give is a CrunchLabs subscription.And as a gift to listeners of The Mel Robbins Podcast, Mark is offering a special discount of 15% off any CrunchLabs subscription using the code MELROBBINS. These monthly subscription boxes, created by Mark, are great for the kids in your life because they are designed to foster creativity, inspire hands-on engineering, and teach robotics and coding skills. Connect with Mel:  Get Mel’s newsletter, packed with tools, coaching, and inspiration.Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes ad-freeDisclaimer Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Okay, I just left the studio, and I am telling you, this conversation that I just had, oh my gosh, I cannot wait for you to hear this. People have told me that this guy that you're about to meet is sensational, but I'd never met him until today. He blew me away. He blew me away. and he's going to blow you away, too, with what he is about to teach you today. It is going to change the way that you think about failure, success, and how to live a happier and more creative life. My guest today is the one and only, Mark Rober.

He is the most watched science creator and educator on the planet with almost 72 million YouTube subscribers. He's a former NASA and Apple engineer and the man behind some of the most loved. legendary YouTube videos of all time. This guy is a genius. He has the brilliant brain of a scientist with this generous heart of a teacher. I just love him. Mark has spent his life turning failure into data, setbacks into experiments, and high pressure work into play. And he has synthesized every single thing that he has learned into a few simple tools and strategies and frameworks that he's going to teach you today. His personal framework rooted in engineering is going to help you achieve your goals, improve your habits,

be happier, make better decisions, have more fun, and become more confident. This is about thinking like an engineer, not to build rockets, but to build a better life. The Let Them Theory is the best gift you can give this holiday season. It's the gift you give to someone who's overwhelmed, to the people-pleaser, to the friend who carries way too much, to the sibling who's exhausted from dealing with everyone else's emotions, to the coworker who needs a break. It's meaningful, it's practical, it's hilarious, and it's life-changing. The Let Them Theory for everyone on your list. Available at Letthem.com and wherever books are sold. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.

I am so excited that you're here. It's such an honor to be together and to spend this time with you if you're a new listener or you're here because somebody shared this episode with you. I just wanted to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family. I cannot tell you how excited I am about today's conversation and the simple tool that and frameworks that will change the way you live. You're going to learn those from the one and only, Mark Rober. Mark is the most popular science creator and educator on the planet. His YouTube channel has almost 72 million subscribers. Now, to put that into perspective,

that's like saying one out of every four people in the United States is subscribed to his channel. That's crazy. Mark is a mechanical engineer who earned his master's degree in engineering at the University of Southern California. He then spent nine years at NASA, working on the team that built the Mars Curiosity rover. After NASA, Mark joined Apple's special projects team as a product design engineer, and today he's the founder and head engineer at Crunch Labs.

But it was 14 years ago that his life changed when he uploaded his very first YouTube video. And the rest is history. So please help me welcome the incredible Mark Rover to the Mel Robbins podcast. Mark Rover in the house. I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to be here too.

You're like one of my heroes like, you know, on like the digital front of like, I feel like we're kind of had similar stories. So I feel like I'm in the room with like a hero that's very relatable to me. Well, I feel the same. Okay. And you've made a huge impact in a lot of my family member's lives, my nephew, my My son is a monster fan. I would not let him, like, skip college for the day to come in and meet you.

I'm a mean mom. But I would love to start, Mark, by having you tell me, how could my life be different if I take everything to heart that you're about to share and teach us today about failure, about creativity, about really being true to yourself and knowing who you are to heart and I apply it to my life? Yeah, I think something that's helped me a lot in life is, like, valuable framework. works, especially when looking at challenges and when looking at failure, like viewing failure in a way that it doesn't mean you are a failure, but it almost flips it where it's exciting.

And like that approach to problems and challenges, seeing them as like exciting opportunities really is a framework thing that I've found has just been an incredible help in my life. I personally love frameworks because it feels then like the things I need to, to do feel a little less arduous, and it doesn't feel like the things I screw it up are so personal. Yes. And I love the idea that you have a framework to help make better decisions. My favorite feeling, truly, is when that aha moment, when you like learn something new and you have a new framework and it allows you kind of see the world.

We've all read a book or listened to a podcast that sticks with you and then changes. heck, the book, let them, right? Is this for so many people? And I love that moment so much. The only thing I love more is giving that to someone else. I love to be that conduit. How do you describe what you do? You know what I mean?

For somebody who may be listening right now or watching right now, and they're like, I love this guy. Who's this guy? What's this guy do? Tell me more about this guy. How would you describe what you do? Yeah, so, you know, I'm a mechanical engineer. I got my bachelor's and master's,

mechanical engineering. I worked at NASA for a decade, working on the Curiosity rover. Wait, the thing that went to Mars? Yeah. Wait, what did you do with that? I was, uh, I worked on the jet pack that lowers it to the ground and then some hardware on the top deck of the rover. So the arm digs in the dirt, dumps it into the belly the rover and my hardware like accepted the sample. That's so cool. And it's still working to this day. So fingers crossed. Wow. Okay. So you worked at NASA. Yeah. Doing all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah. And then I worked at Apple for five years in their special projects group. So, and then eventually when I, is that like top secret stuff? Yeah. I worked on the,

what the hell. I worked on the Apple car. You did? Yeah, which didn't end up becoming a thing. I was going to say, is there an Apple car? No. Okay. They canceled it soon after I left. Okay. Well, it's because you left. Yeah. I like to think so. And so then, and only then when I had 10 million YouTube subscribers at that point, did I quit my actual job to do YouTube full time. Okay, so hold on. How did you, and why did you start making videos on YouTube? Because you got big jobs at NASA and Apple. Yeah. And how old are you when you kind of started tinkering, I'll say?

Like my first video I uploaded it, I was like 31 years old. Okay. And it was a Halloween costume. It was like an iPad in front and an iPad in back. If you do a FaceTime video call, it looks like you have a hole in your body because the camera in front shows what's on the back. So it's like an optical illusion. Oh, so you have a, so you have a camera.

in the back calling, you have the camera in the front calling the camera in the back. And vice versa. So then, so what happens, if you wave your hand in the front, it shows that on the screen in the back. So if you cut a hole in your shirt, it looks like you have like a hole in your body, right? Oh my God. So both ways. Both ways. So it was a very, and this, I love ideas that are really simple and that you could just make with stuff you already have, right? And so I uploaded that YouTube video because I took it to a Halloween party and everyone was like, this is amazing. And it went super viral.

out of the gate, like three million views. And I was like, well, this is a good feeling. Like, I like, I have way more ideas. And back then, you didn't know you could make money or get famous on YouTube. It was just like, you're just sharing ideas. Got it. And basically, I've uploaded one video a month since that day. So almost 15 years now. So for 15 years, one video a month since that day. And the videos are all explaining super cool things mostly about science. it's like, you know, it might be like, you know, someone stole a package for my porch. So I made, I engineered a glitter bomb that, you know, could get revenge on porch pirates where it has four phones inside that record and upload it the cloud.

But there's also a cup that spends a pound of the world's finest glitter. Of course, there's some fart spray in there, so they have to get rid of it out of their house. We built eventually like 20 and put them on porches all across America. Okay. In spots, we knew were hot spots for getting porch pirates. Okay. And yeah, and then we just tracked them all. And we would know when one got stolen.

And then it's everyone's watching the footage real time. And you get some pretty hilarious reactions. Wow. So you have 71 million subscribers on YouTube. Why do you think these experiments that you elaborately orchestrate? Why do you think they connect so deeply, not just with kids, but with people of all ages and backgrounds around the world? You just have to evoke a visceral response.

In other words, it has to make them laugh. They have to feel excited. They just have to feel something, right? For something to be remarkable, it has to be able to be remarked about. And so you don't share a video, you don't finish watching. So if you could just make them feel something, then they are way more likely to actually take action and share it. And I think this is applicable in people's lives. If you want, you know, a lot of times we just want to focus on the facts.

Like, well, the facts are on my side, so I'm just going to state the facts. But if you don't emotionally connect with someone, maybe you want to pitch something to your boss, like this big idea, right? Maybe you want to apologize to your partner or your kid. Like, if the emotion's not there, it doesn't cause that shift in the heart. And we survived long before written to tell stories to each other. And so it's in our DNA to resonate with stories. And I think this is very applicable for people's lives of just like leaning into the story

and the emotion of a thing just for interpersonal relationships. Like your apologies will be accepted faster and more earnestly. You will find that you can, you know, pitch ideas to coworkers, even just like, where are we going to eat, right? You're more influential if you can remember that we are hardwired to tell stories. So if you don't think you're a good storyteller or you're like a really shy person, is there any advice that you have about how you can use this framework of thinking about the emotion? Or I love that thing that you said, to be remarkable, you have to have people remark about you.

And telling somebody a story or moving them emotionally or getting them excited about something is what makes people remark about you. So how could somebody think about storytelling as a tool to use to prepare for anything, whether it's a date or it's a job interview or it's having a hard conversation or it's trying to go viral making your next video? The biggest downside, especially as an engineer, I get this, is like it's to focus on the facts. Let's say you're selling a thing. It's like, well, you know, my processor has 20% more gigahertz. People don't care.

It's just a spec sheet, right? Yep. They want to know how this will make them feel. So I think part of it is like empathizing with the other person you're talking to and putting yourself in their shoes and understanding from their perspective, what would feel meaningful to them. You only do one video a month. When you are sitting down to think of the idea,

are there particular, like, checkboxes that you go through? Because one of them has to be, what emotion are we evoking? What story are we telling? Like, is there a framework you use that helps you architect the type of experiment that you're going to do or how you're using kind of this? How do I evoke something? How do I engineer a story that creates emotion for people? What I do is, I like to say, like, hide the vegetables.

What is that me? Oh, you mean like blend them? What are you talking about? No, no, no, yes, I'll say. So, at the end of the day, my goal is to reach as many brains as possible with this story of like learning how to think critically, to be curious, to embrace failure, thinking like an engineer, even if you're not an engineer, right? Like, that is my North Star. So the way I do that is hiding the vegetables. So I might have a video that's like a 15 ton jello pool, which is very

hard to do, by the way, Mel. 15 tonne. Is that like a swimming pool full of jello? Yes, that weighs 15 tons, which is, which no one has literally ever in the history of the internet actually pulled that off. Like, we were the first because we had to go to, like, you know, because jello, you have to boil it and they have to cool it down. Yes. So I went to the perfect spot in the United States where overnight it would get to refrigerator temperatures. We boiled it in like six huge, you know, 55 gallon drums. It took a full week. I lost 10 pounds because I was so stressed out.

But we pulled it off and you could see someone belly flopping in a pool of jello. That's a very clickbait title and thumbnail. Okay. But once you click on the video mail, this is where I get you. Because pretty soon you're learning about chemistry. You're learning about the scientific method. You're learning about like the variables we controlled, right? So it's like, I can't teach you if I don't have your attention.

So by teaching science in this way via spectacle, you come in, you get hooked. You're like, wait, what? And so that's what I really do is like, you know, I get your attention. I hide the vegetables. and this is actually something I have not really talked about this publicly, Mel, but can I give you a big bombshell here, a big announcement here?

We're taking all the tricks I've learned over this 15 years of hiding the vegetables, of teaching science in a way that's exciting. Kids and adults are choosing to watch these. We're on the YouTube. There's so many other options they can click on. So we're going to make a full science curriculum. You are?

Third to eighth grade. This includes really cool video. includes a lot of their favorite YouTubers that they already watch. Oh my gosh. It includes resources for teachers. It includes really cool demos they can do in class that are very inexpensive. It also adheres to all the science standards.

And then we're going to make it free for all teachers. Are you kidding me? No. It's going to toss like three. It'll take about three years total. We're about about a year into it. And yeah, I just feel like teachers specifically. it's like it's like such a it's the most i think important profession and perhaps the most

like underappreciated or under supported profession so especially to these teachers who are like paying their own money for curriculum it's like terrible so it's kind of like hey reinforcements are on the way we got you we're coming with this really cool thing so that i think will be like the most important thing i do like my whole life i were really excited about it i can see how emotional it makes you. Yeah, I'm really, really excited about that. Why does this bring up so much for you? You know, I myself am product of great teachers.

My mom, she like passed away like six months before I even made my first YouTube video. And she didn't even go to like, she barely graduated high school. but like she has had she's had more impact on my life than anyone by a very comfortable margin which honestly I almost think is a beautiful thing where you like never really know the full measure of your life like the impact that you have regardless of what you believe about what happens when we die right

I think we can all agree a successful life is one where you leave the world a better place than you found it right and the impact you have on others you'll just never really know And I almost think it's beautiful that she had no idea that, like, what happened just right after she passed away, where I started getting all this reach. And now, like, I'm trying to reach as many brains as possible. And basically what she did for me and what other great teachers did for me, like, that's what teachers are. They're seed planners. So if we want to invest in the future of, you know, the world, there's big problems coming down in the pipeline, Mel.

This is an all-brains-on-deck situation. It is. So we should be investing in the seed planners, those who are creating the next generation of big problem solvers. And so just this idea of like supporting and celebrating them and just like saying thank you and also just putting a thumb on the scale that's like, this is a cool profession and people should aspire to be this. Like my dream job truly, and I've said this for a decade, is to be like a middle school

or high school science teacher. Honestly, I thought by now I would be retired and I would just be doing that as a volunteer. And then what I realize is like, by the way, I still want to do that. Like, that is still going to be what I do eventually. But I can have more impact using the platform that I have by supporting other teachers in the meantime.

Well, you know, I'm so moved. I didn't think I'd cry talking to you, honestly. I kept thinking, you would be, my dream science teacher for my kids. I mean, and I'm sure as you're listening or watching this, you're like, man, I wish I, Mark was my kid's teacher. And what occurred to me is that your mom is clearly with us and that you actually are the world's science teacher.

That is what you're doing. You just happen to have the largest science classroom in the world. No, really. that's what you're doing. Yeah. I mean, I guess. It's funny because I don't think about it in those terms. I'm just like, what's the next video I want to make next month that's exciting to me?

And I think that is, yeah, I kind of think, like, with people like, what's your 10-year plan? Especially when they ask kids in middle school or something, it's like, I don't know. Like, nobody knows. Like, any adult who tells you like, oh, yeah, I knew I'd be exactly right here in my life. life 20 years ago. Bull. That's not true. My philosophy is like, it's like crossing a river and there's a bunch of stones on it, right? You don't necessarily know the right path, but what I can do is I could wiggle the three rocks in front of me. And it's like, oh, this is the best rock right here. So I'm going to hop on this one. And now that I'm on that one, now I could touch my toe out

and wiggle the next three. So my whole thing, and I really try this to tell us kids as well, It's like, whatever the options are in front of me, okay, I'm going to pick the best one. I'm just going to put everything into this thing. And then once you do that, now suddenly, guess what? Like four more doors open. And now choose the best one from there. Right?

And now, oh, now there's seven more doors. And so, like, if you're 15, you don't know what you want to be when you grow up, what makes you excited? Do you love to draw, right? Just draw a ton and get as good as you can be. Right? Do you love to write? Well, then just write.

as much as you can, right? Talk to other folks. Learn more about that. And I just like, a life where you just follow your passions is one that just very naturally just feels very, very fulfilling. And so when you say, you, hey, you're in a position, you're the world science teacher. It's like, I don't know, I guess. I'm not, I'm not looking at that, Mel.

I'm looking at the rock in front of me. Yes. And then, yeah, sometimes you zoom out and you're like, oh, holy crud, like 71 million subscribers and like 20 billion views on science videos. Yeah, that's, that is a lot. But it's like, I mean, my team will tell you, like we'll release a video and they're like, oh, video's great. I'm like, wait, what? I'm already on the next thing. Like, no, we got more work to do. I want to pause on this because I think you actually just shared a story that has the absolute secret to success in it. And that is that, that,

If you focus on something that is truly tied to something you deeply care about, and you are also focused on the impact that it can have on somebody else, right? And so you talked about evoking emotion and setting up a story. We're all like, oh, world's biggest cello thing. This is cool. But you're hiding the vegetables in it. So you've become a master at the craft of teaching science. but you have never lost focus on the one lesson in front of you, the one rock, as you say. And that's the secret, because the second you pick your head up and go two billion views and this, that, and the other thing, you're now no longer looking at the actual thing that you loved doing. Yeah.

You're looking at the wrong data. Yeah. Now, here's what we need to do. We need to take a quick break to hear a word from. our amazing sponsors. And as you're listening and watching on YouTube, I know you're inspired. If you've got somebody in your life that would love to hear this, please share it and don't go anywhere because Mark and I will be right back here waiting for you after this short break. Stay with me.

Hey, it's your friend, Mel, and I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for listening to a podcast that is helping you feel better and do better and create a better life. Thank you for being so generous with the episodes to make a difference and sharing them with friends and family. I also wanted to say thank you because we have had an extraordinary year here at the Mel Robbins podcast. Spotify and Apple have named us the third largest podcast in the world and the number one followed podcast on Apple. That's just extraordinary. One of our episodes is the number one shared episode on the planet this year of all podcasts. And we have also received the extraordinary honor of being nominated for the first ever Golden Globe to be awarded for best

podcast. I am truly humbled by the success of this show and by the impact that it is making in your life and in the lives of the people that you care about. That to me is the greatest win of all. One episode at a time, you and I are learning, we're feeling better, we're doing better, and that's how you and I together have become a global force for good, creating positive. change. Thank you. Welcome back at your buddy Mel Robbins, and today you and I are learning simple tools and frameworks that will change the way you live, make decisions, be happier from the incredible Mark Rober, the most popular science creator and educator in the world.

Let's talk about failure. Yeah. Because you've built your career on experiments. And at the very beginning, you said that there is a framework that you could teach us about failing and getting excited about failing. And I've got to be honest with you, I'm not excited about failing, Mark. Yeah. So I think what I found over time is like, you know, it started, the first time I noticed this was trying to make a dart board where you get a bullseye every time where you could throw a dart. it would track the dart through the air,

it would predict where it would land, and then it would move the dartboard in 400 milliseconds. No way. That's less than a blink of an eye. Wow. And that video took me three years to build that. And there were a lot of setbacks, Mel. There was a lot of moments where it's like,

oh, we thought this would work, but it doesn't. And what I realize is, like, at no part in any of that, was I like, I'm a failure, this is the worst, I want to give up. It's almost like with each set, back, I was more and more determined. I learned one more way not to do it. And what I realize is it's like a video game. I call this the Super Mario effect. Okay. In any video game, there's an objective or a goal. Like, you have to rescue the princess from the castle or get a certain amount of points. But there's obstacles in that way. There might be pits. There might be bad guys.

And if you die, you go back to the beginning. And you just keep trying. And over time, you get better and better, and you learn to avoid the obstacles better and better, you know, Super Mario Brothers, you're just trying to pass the level. And on that level, there's pits that you could fall into, there's sliding green turtle shells, there's lots of ways that you could die. Okay. But no one ever picks up that controller for the first time and falls into a pit and is like, I'm such a failure.

Like, I'm an idiot. How embarrassing. I'd never want to play this again. No. Instead, you're like, oh, crud. Okay, there's a pit there. I got to remember that. next time I'm going to come a little faster.

I'm going to jump a little earlier, right? And so by having this attitude toward failure, by focusing on rescuing the princess from the castle, the focus is on the princess and the goal in mind, you focus on the win, right? You're not focused on the failures. And that doesn't mean it doesn't sting, right? On level 8-1, there's this huge pit you have to jump over

and land on this tiny little platform. It's really hard to do, and you've made it all the way there, and then you die, and it stings, Mel. It still hurts. It's not this Paulian attitude of like, oh, well, everything's good. And even the sound at the end when you die is like, oh, do, do, do, do do do do do do do. Right. It's very sad, even the sound.

But it stings, you're immediately like, what did I learn? Now I'm going to try this again because I now know one more way not to attempt that jump. You know, in case you're not the kind of person that has ever played video games in your life, let me try to just explain why this is so relevant to life. When Mark talks about a level in a video game, this is basically a psychological gym that you're entering. So you start the game and you're entering a challenge. You're going to fail and then you figure something out,

and then you try again, and then you fail again, and again, and again. If you keep going, you eventually beat the level. And what's cool about the metaphor of a video game is that's resilience. That's what we need in life. Life is one big level. And it's going to have setbacks, trial and error. You're going to get stuck. There's going to be obstacles in your way. You're going to have unexpected enemies. And you either are going to get to a point where you're so frustrated you quit and throw your hands in the air or you keep playing. How do you use this when a lot of the failing that people need to do is in front of other people? Or you might get negative feedback or, you know, people might comment on your video or you might look stupid at work. Do you see what I'm saying? So like how, what would you say to the person that's like, okay, I can do that with a video game, but I still can't talk at work? I think we, we overestimate the negative impact on failure and underestimate our ability to

handle it, when we're imagining towards the future of this failure thing. And I think it's a repetition thing. Like, I get that. I hate public speaking. And it's a goal of mind right now. It's one of my Super Mario level things I'm working on. And what I'm finding is just the more reps I do it, the more times I do it, you do normalize to it. Yeah. So I think, like, I get that fear and I recognize that it is different when you're in front

of other people. But it's one of those things that just, like, you just, it's exposure therapy and fail small in front of small groups of people. And then you can eventually fail bigger and bigger. But even still, like, I will say this framework really does. does help. You know, I'll have videos that will bomb and there'll be a 10 out of my last 10. And it stings. It's like falling in that pit, but it's like, oh, you know what, though? This kind of makes sense because we started a little differently and we did it this way. And so

immediately just the way my brain works, and that's a big failure, Mel, in front of a lot of people. Yeah. And it stinks for a day, but immediately the way the framework works is I'm like, what did I learn from that? And I call that thinking like an engineer. meaning like, you know, to get the rover on Mars, we tested so many things because you just don't know. And no one, if you have a test that fails at NASA for a landing strut, no one's like, oh, you're a failure. It's like, oh, great. Now we know the limits of what this thing can do. So let's redesign it, right?

As an engineer, this is just how you think. Like, if you are not failing, that's a problem. Yeah. Right? Like, you need to be testing the limits to understand. Like, if you're being so concerned on everything, you have no idea how. how much bigger and cooler this thing could be, right? Each time you fail, you are learning something.

You're learning one more way not to do it. So I think if they could approach it that way and find the positivity in the fail and the learning in the fail, then it gives it a purpose. You just gave me a huge aha moment as a mom. Yeah. And I want, as you're listening or watching,

I want you to steal this. I want you to use this with every single, gamer in your life because I think one of the things that I got very wrong is you tend to attack the gaming because you think the person in your life who's good at gaming or loves gaming is avoiding life by gaming. And I just realized to miss a huge opportunity as a parent because Oakley was only gaming as much as he was because he was good at it. And he was doing it because he was doing it with his friends and he was doing it because he was learning these incredible skills that you're talking about, thinking like an engineer, tinkering, experimenting,

failing, starting over, the resilience, the get back and go, the building that muscle over and over and over and over again. It's evidence that they have resilience. It's evidence that they can experiment and fail and learn. It's evidence that they can figure it out. Trying it and then learning. Yes. And by the way, you shouldn't just nail it right out of the gate. Like, I think that's what people expect, right? Well, if I'm good at it, you don't expect that in a video game. Why would you expect that in life. You learn a lot more in failure sometimes, especially with kids, than just by succeeding at a thing. One of the things that I would love to have you speak to, for the person who's listening or watching, who's scared to try something new, because they don't want to mess up,

they don't want to look cringy, you know, they're worried about what their friends are going to think. Like, what is your message to somebody who's like on that precipice, knowing they want to grow and change, but are actively talking themselves out of it? I would say, start small and make your goal to fail. What do you mean make your goal to fail? I just went through this myself, Mel, where it's like I have, I like to play chess occasionally, and I found like I wasn't playing chess because I felt like if I lost, somehow I would internalize it something about me.

This is like playing online. And I'm like, what am I doing? So I made a goal that I want to lose 10 games. I love this. This was my goal. Do you know I'm starting to learn chess? Oh, really? feel really stupid. And so I played once with Oakley. He smashed me. And then I'm like,

okay, I don't want to play with anybody else because I don't want to look done. So it's your goal to lose 10 times in a row. 10 times. Or just 10 times. Like that's, it doesn't necessarily need to be in a row, but it's like, hey, I'm going to play these games. And like, I check a box. I win when I fail this many times. And that just resets everything, right? And it totally worked for me. Because now I exposed myself to losing more. And now I don't even think about it. And I love, I don't internalize it as a negative thing. And now I'm enjoying and playing way more chess. So like if you're nervous about speaking up at work, you know, if you're, maybe it's public speaking, um, maybe it's, dating an interview. Maybe you love to draw and you

want to make a YouTube video talking about it. Just make your goal, let's say for the YouTube case, just to make 10 videos. Don't think anything about views. Don't think anything about any sort of metrics. Go for zero views. Yeah. Go for. for zero views, right? Like, your W is just getting it up and starting to flex that muscle. And it's just like anything in life, it's exposure therapy.

And the more you're exposed to it, the better you get, you build those muscles, right? It's just like training in a gym. Those muscles get stronger, you get more adapted to it. And then you look back at where you were a year ago, and you're like, oh, man,

I can't believe I was ever worried about this. Well, here's what's genius about that, Mark, is that I think there's a lot of talk about how failure should be the thing we go for. But what you just did with that framework is you said, no, the goal is to fail. I love that. It's so subtle, but it's a really genius way to do it.

Just get the pressure off yourself, right? And understand that will happen and don't try and avoid that thing. I love this. Mark, you are so amazing. And I just could talk to you for days, but I got to take a quick pause so I can give our amazing sponsors a chance to share a few words.

And I also want to give you a chance to share this episode and conversation with people that you care about. Because I bet you're just like me. As you're listening to Mark, you're thinking about people in your life that would love this. And coming up, Mark is going to unpack his framework for happiness. And you don't want to miss this to stay with me. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mal Robbins, and today you and I are learning simple frameworks that will change the way you think and live. I love this. I bet you're loving it from the incredible Mark Rober, the number one science creator and educator in the world. So, Mark, one of the things

that is just your genius is that you make science and learning and failing so fun and humor and silliness is kind of part of the formula. I know that you brought something to show. Oh, yeah. So here's an example of just a very simple demo. I'll pull up that's down here. Okay. So he's reaching down right now if you're not watching on YouTube, but you're probably going to want to watch this on YouTube at some point. And you've got a, oh, you've got a hairdry. Yes, this is a simple hairdry you'd have at home and just a ping pong ball. Yeah, okay. So what I'm going to do, Mel, I'm going to turn this on. And the ping pong ball is levitating in this hair dryer.

But even as you twist it left and right, it like magically stays in the airflow, right? So this is a principle called the Kiwanda effect. Essentially what's happening is it's creating like a little low pressure bubble for the ball to float in. That's why even at a side angle like this, it's still. floating. This is what the principle behind what makes curve balls curve in baseball. It's like the same kind of principle of like air flowing around the side to create little bubbles. Oh, because the air is coming straight up and out of the hair dryer. But when it hits the mass of the ball, it goes up on the sides of it. So it's almost like cupping it with the fluid that is air. I'm learning. It's exactly

it. Wow, you explain that so well. But what's so great, like that's like such a simple demo. of like Harry Potter levitation, right? I mean, you literally look, you know, like a wizard, just like hovering this thing. And it's just, this is junk you have lying around your house. So it's like a demo that explains it that's really cool that's very approachable, right? This isn't some fancy scientific instruments,

a ping pong ball and a hair job. Here's another one that I think will work well on a podcast. Okay. I've got a cup. You've got like a little, like, plastic cup like you see in backyard barbecues. Those red solo cups. There's just a normal string here. Yeah, it's just a white string that you've punched a hole at the end.

So it's poked through the end of the bottom of the cup. And then I have a little bit of a, in fact, I'm going to dip this in my water here. Okay. It's just a paper towel. Yep, nothing fancy. And what's interesting now is I'm going to try and make a chicken sound. You tell me if this works. A chicken sound with a plastic cup and a string and a wet paper towel.

See if you believe it. Ready? Here we go. That's exactly what that sounds like. So all we're doing with this little cup and making a little chicken demo is there's vibrations as the friction on the string rubs against the paper towel. It vibrates the bottom of this cup.

It's a diaphragm. It's like a drum. And then it's amplified through the cup. So it becomes like a little speaker. In other words, if I take this same string and I rub it without the cup, What you would expect to hear, when I anticipate happening, you just don't hear much.

You kind of hear it. But it doesn't have that amplification. Because what's happening with the bottom of this cup is as I vibrate it, it pushes all the air molecules that are up against the bottom of this cup. It pushes them out. And they balk into other air molecules. And they keep balking until it hits your eardrum. And it just, it registers those movements of molecules bumping into your eardrum.

And we call that sound. And if it's a high frequency, that means the bumping happens more frequently. So, you know, if it's a high frequency, a high pitch, that's just like the bumping happening faster. If it's a low frequency, the bumping is happening less frequently. We call that a low frequency. So does this also explain why if you, my kid, my kid, Oakley showed me this. If you need a speaker and you don't have one, you can stick your phone in a cup and play it in a

cup and then the cup amplifies it? That's exactly it. That's right. It just, it's, it concentrates the, the air molecules all pushing together in the same direction to eventually hit your ear. So just simple little demos like that where it's like, you know, I could have tried to explain that with words, but if you can viscerally, you know, get your hands on it and it's not a complicated thing, like it's not a complicated set. Like those are the, those are the moments where you, I think you create more aha moments.

I love that. So how would you recommend that the person who's listening or watching right now apply the fun and the curiosity toward their own goals in life? Curiosity is actually, and like creativity and curiosity are like, that's a muscle that can be developed. I do think some people are just born more naturally curious and probably born a little bit more naturally creative, but there's a huge middle ground. The research shows this. We've worked a lot with Dr. Adam Green from Georgetown. And you can actually measure, you know, your brain using the if you measure the alpha brain ways, that's highly correlated to creative problem solving, creative thinking. So you can measure this with an EKG. And what he found is that it's a muscle.

Creativity is a muscle. Yes. The more time you spend in that space, the more comfortable with you, you are with it, the more quickly your brain goes to that spot. Huh. So it's kind of like this idea of like a mind frame of just like viewing the world through a lens of curiosity, viewing the world through a lens of like, huh, why is that, right? Like the most, the best words to hear in science aren't like Eureka, I discovered it. Like the best words that lead to the most scientific breakthrough is like, huh, I wonder why that happened.

Like it starts with an observation. like, that was unexpected. When we first sat down, you talked about frameworks for understanding yourself and what you value and for really being happier, authentically happier. What have you learned about happiness? So in engineering, we call it first principles approach. Like if you're trying to go to Mars, start from a very first principle. What are the basic fundamentals that you need to know?

How much energy do you need to get there? like what are just basic building blocks and I think for happiness there's some basic building blocks that intuitively I've really tried to maintain as life has gotten crazier and that comes down to like relationships and like living according to what my personal values are right being value driven and like having a goal of what is my impact in this world and what is the reason and I'm here. So like being motivated intrinsically by like those types of things and not letting all this other stuff be a distraction. I think a lot of people have to buy the fancy things to realize like, oh, that wasn't what actually brings happiness. And I have this, you know, Mr. Beast is a buddy of

mine. He's another YouTuber. And him and I have this debate a lot. His thing is like, oh, you can either be really successful or you can be happy. Right. Like you can't be both. And there's many decisions I've made that sort of would have helped me have more reach or would have meant that I could have more money or have more whatever, but I don't want to just have this flash in the pan and go really hard and just totally burn out. If you do that, then you spike back down to nothing. But if you just sort of build one step at a time, happiness is found by just like incremental level ups, just little hits of dopamine, right? I'm just like, oh, I got a little bit better.

Oh, I got a little bit better. And I think in life, like, I've really tried to like, we could have 500 employees and have all this venture capital and do all this stuff. But like, I've pushed against all that. And I'm just like, I just, if I want to reach as many brains as possible, the right way to do it is just, we're just little by little, we're going to creep up to this thing. And as a result, like, I've never gotten burnt out on YouTube. And I would say, like, I'm more stoked now than I have been in 15 years.

I think the way that I would relate to it is there were periods of my life, especially when we were struggling financially, where I thought the secret to happiness was going to be a different car or a nicer handbag or the ability to go on a nicer vacation with my kids. You might be, as you're listening or watching, in this moment in your life, where you're so focused on chasing the weight on the scale or the figure in the bank account or the house in a certain neighborhood because you think that solves all your problems. And I actually thought it would. I think the good news is like if you,

this is something that resonates and you struggle with, there is a very good solution for it. And the anecdote to this feeling of like needing and chasing that dopamine, getting the next thing is gratitude. So, you know, this is why sometimes you hear, like, having a gratitude journal or like before you go to bed each night, like literally writing down three things that happened that day that you were grateful for. Because at any one time, incredible amounts of both abundance and scarcity

exists in our world. It just depends on which one you want to focus on, right? You know, and so when I find myself in this thing and feeling down that like, I should be doing better, I should be having more. The reset is like, man, look at what I have in my life. And almost a hack for this, if you're still struggling to be grateful, imagine take something away. Say like a partner or someone that means a lot to you. How would you feel?

And like that is a good reset of like, why am I worrying about what I'm going to bring to the potluck on Friday and stressing over this in my life? life that is such a small problem compared to what it could be, right? And I think it's a reset then of like when you come home. And at the end of the day, I think relationships do matter. And I think the research bears this out, right? Happiness is correlated to like the quality of the relationships in your life. And for me, I find that to be as true as well. So then it's like, well, then I shouldn't be on my phone when I come home. And if work, I'm in this hyper optimization mode and I get stuff done and I have people around me that when you get home, you need to flip that. And you, you need to flip that.

you need to not be efficient with your kids. Like, the phone goes down and your goal should be flipped. I need to be as inefficient as possible, right? I'm going to read this book four times. I'm not going to skip the pages. I'm going to sit here and play this thing with them. Your goal when you get home should be as inefficient as you possibly can. And, like, that will yield the best results for fostering a child that feels like, you know,

they're being raised in this loving environment, especially with all the distractions we have today. I think that's the best parenting advice I've heard in a very long time. No, I mean it. Because part of why we're so stressed out, I'll just speak for myself, is we're optimizing for efficiency and productivity as parents. Yeah. And we need to do the opposite, because kids need your presence and your attention. They don't need to jam 50,000 things into the next 15 minutes. Yeah, when they're telling that story that's very long-winded,

And they're going over and over and repeating, like, I want to be like, yeah, yeah, get to the point. Like, what happened, right? Yes. That's not the point. The end of the punchline of their story is not the point. Your undivided attention and showing that they matter, that's the point. I want to make sure that as you were listening or watching that you did not miss the rock, solid piece of gold that Mark dropped in the middle of the story about gratitude. because if I think back to some of the hardest moments in my life,

those moments where you're like, life is unfair, I suck, the world sucks, everyone around me sucks, I've really blown it, and those moments happen to all of us, if I had had the negative gratitude piece of advice that you just dropped on us, okay, even in the worst moment, think about removing somebody you love. even though I was a complete jerk and constantly angry at Chris when we were almost a million dollars in debt, there's not a second that I wished he was gone. And so if you have something in your life that you don't want to lose, then you have something to be grateful for. And that

helps you start where you are. And it helps remind you of what you actually value. How How, as an adult, because adults get stuck. Yeah. And you can get really stuck in the story that you're telling yourself, that whether it's a story, I don't know what I want, or it's too late for me, or I've screwed up so many times, I don't even know what direction to turn. How do you use some of these principles,

whether we're talking about the alpha brainwaves or we're talking about the kind of question prompts that naturally make your imagination go, how would you recommend that somebody who does feel very stalled in life or feels stuck in life and doesn't feel creative and doesn't feel innovative and can't even imagine something bigger or better than where they're at right now? How do you start to change that story?

How do you lean into what might be possible? So if someone's feeling stuck, and not excited, not creative. What is the one thing in your life, even if it's super small, that even gets you a little bit excited? Maybe it's, you love flowers and gardening. Like, or you, I shouldn't say love.

Maybe you kind of like it, and it's kind of even slightly interesting to you, right? Lean into that, going back to, like, crossing the river, but start small and then go from there, treating it as an opportunity to, learn and to get better and to optimize. If you ever played Zelda, if you ever played any game, if you've ever gone on to accomplish something great, just remember what that was like.

It started small and you most likely were excited about the process. So what can you do to hide the vegetables for yourself? And then it's exciting because you feel like you're getting better. Failure has purpose, right? You embrace the failure as the quickest way to get to something amazing. The thing that I would also add is that in every one of your experiments and every one of your videos and everything that you've done, you did not hold open the possibility that you wouldn't eventually get there. Yeah. And so there is also this faith involved where you say if I keep going, if I'm willing to learn, I am going to figure this out and this is going to work out for me. But I will say with a caveat, yes, that it may look different than I thought it would look.

Mark, what are your parting words? I feel grateful to be here, sitting across the table from you, Mel. To have these values and these things that you care about, to, like, share it with a bunch of people is like, even if you're not sharing it with a bunch of people, just like to be able to move the needle in a way you think is beneficial for the world on any scale is incredible. And to do it on this scale sitting across from you is like, dream come true. The feelings mutual. I'm a huge fan. You're so much better in real life and you're pretty fantastic in what you do. I just, on behalf of absolutely everybody who will listen to this, I want to thank you for the gift that you are to the world. And you know what? I'm also so happy that you're here. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing this with the people that you

care about. Thank you for listening to something that is going to help you create a better life. there is no doubt in my mind that everything that Mark taught us today is going to help you make changes, take risks, be more resilient, have a curious mindset. I just love this. I cannot wait for my kids to listen to this. I can't wait to share this with people. And one more thing I want to tell you, in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you as your friend that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. And I know that Everything that Mark shared with us today is exactly what you need to do that. All righty, I will be waiting for you in the very next episode.

I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. I want you to go like this because you have a little bit of water in your nose. I'm rubber, your glue. Your amazing mouth. Data. Data. Data. I don't know. I must say it in the stupider way. Tomatoes, tomatoes, tomatoes. Here we go. Is that good? Okay, great. love this. All right, we've got to bring in where. I've got to go the bathroom. You are so Oh my God. I love you. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, great, great, great.

I knew you're going to make me cry, Mel. Damn it. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you.