The Mel Robbins Podcast - Yes, You Can Make a Difference: This Remarkable Story Will Inspire You to Do Something Big

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

In today’s episode, author and entrepreneur Lorenzo Lewis tells you the amazing story of how he is changing the lives of over 3 million people a year. His story is so inspiring, and I wanted you to meet Lorenzo because I know he’ll inspire you to think bigger about making a difference in your community or the world at large. Lorenzo had no funding, influence, or experience. He just had a simple idea and a very big heart. And that’s all you need to make the world a better place. When Lorenzo was born, the odds were already stacked against him: his mother gave birth to him while she was in jail. His father died in prison. He was raised by his aunt and uncle. As a child, he struggled with anger, anxiety, and depression and was labeled a problem. You’ll hear about the defining moment when Lorenzo made the decision to turn his life around. He graduated from college and started working in health and human services. That was where, at the age of 24, he had an idea about creating a mental health movement that is now changing millions of lives. “The Confess Project” was born.  Lorenzo’s nonprofit trains barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates for the men, women, and children who are sitting in their chairs. Now 3,000 mental health advocates across the country are changing the lives of over 3 million people a year. It’s an absolutely incredible story. Today, you will learn:The incredible solution Lorenzo thought of to make therapy accessible and easy for underserved and represented communities.How to give yourself permission to pursue that big idea.The revolutionary Harvard study that explains why you feel so comfortable telling your hairdresser about everything.Why you have all the power and tools you need to make a difference.How working from home has increased loneliness (and why you feel like you have nobody to talk to).The 4 things you can say to someone who is having a bad day (steal this from Lorenzo’s playbook).Why now is the right time to take action on that project you are thinking about. I can’t wait for you to meet, learn from, and be inspired by Lorenzo. His story is proof that it’s never too late to change your own life and that when you see a problem you want to solve, lean into it. You’ll not only help other people; you’ll surprise yourself with how much of a difference you can make. Xo, Mel In this episode:2:30: 60% of us don’t fully trust this, so we avoid it altogether.5:40: How do you start a nonprofit when you have no idea how?11:00: Black-owned hair shops are an integral part of black communities.14:30: Lorenzo’s is on a mission to close the vulnerability gap.17:20: Anxiety may not always look the way you think it does.19:45: Kids get labeled as bad behavior instead of treating mental health.26:15: A child who does not feel warmth from the village will burn it down.29:50: Unmet mental health needs are sometimes expressed as anger.35:50: The moment Lorenzo proved that he keeps his word.39:20: Stories of people not being supported mentally and emotionally.42:45: When your therapist doesn’t look like you, it’s a barrier to connection.44:20: I still remember when Ed Mylett said this to me.46:20: So how do you come up with an idea that’s never been done before?48:20: How do you get men to admit they need professional help?52:00: What does it mean to be vulnerable and why is that important?53:40: When your nonprofit starts reaching 1 million people!54:00: The 4-Part therapeutic formula of The Confess Project we can all use.56:40: Let’s role model what it looks like to sit in the barber chair.60:20: The surprising Harvard research that drove this nonprofit's mission.64:00: Examples of the impact The Confess Project has had on communities.68:30: When you believe in your dream and you make it happen.70:15: Two powerful stories from two barbers who saved two lives.  Want more resources? Go to my podcast page at https://melrobbins.com/podcast. Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. So the other day, I was listening to one of my favorite podcasts and I heard the most incredible, like crazy story. And I'm like, I have got to talk to this guy with you. I mean, we got to get him on the podcast. And he is here today. I cannot wait to introduce you to Lorenzo Lewis. He is a guy who, against all odds, turned his own life around.

And then he came up with this wildly creative and innovative way to deliver free mental health services to millions of people who otherwise might not receive the support that they deserve. Wait to hear Lorenzo Lewis' life story. It is so incredible. The odds were stacked against him since the day he was born. His mother gave birth to him in jail. His father, died in prison when Luenzo was only 10 years old. As a child, he acted out. He was labeled a problem and struggled with anger and anxiety and depression. But of course, you know, he's

never told that all of these feelings had a name. He was never told about the trauma that he experienced. And despite all these odds, Lorenzo turned his life around. He graduated from college and became a mental health advocate for the Department of Health and Human Services. Now, it was there working in a hospital that he noticed this major disconnect between the therapist, the psychiatrist, the mental health professionals, and all the patients in the hospital that they were trying to help. As Lorenzo puts it, only 4% of therapists and licensed mental health professionals are black. And this creates a major gap in representation because the therapists don't have

relevant life experience. Plus, there's a stigma around mental health in the black communities causing this sense of shame and a lack of trust that makes it difficult for people to open up to therapists. And this gap and this distrust is not just in black communities. According to recent studies, 47% of us still believe that seeking therapy or help for mental health issues is a sign of weakness. We know it's not, but that's what a lot of people think. And 60% of us, when we do seek help for mental health issues, according to research, we don't fully trust the person we're getting the help from.

Now, Lorenzo wanted to do something about this, and this man is used to beat in the odds, so he was not discouraged, he was on a mission. With his wife's support, he quit his job, and he decided to pursue a breakthrough idea. Now what if I told you, this mental health revolution all started with your hairdresser? The confess project was born, and it trains barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates for the men, women, and children who are sitting in their chairs. How cool is that? Lorenzo's nonprofit has trained over 3,000 barbers and beauticians to become mental health

advocates. They now reach over 3 million people a year. Now the reason why I wanted you to hear this remarkable story is because I knew it would inspire you to think again about the difference you can truly make. As you listen, I want you to consider Lorenzo's not a psychiatrist or a therapist, he doesn't have a medical degree and nobody gave him permission or asked him to do this. He just saw a problem and he wanted to solve it.

So he answered the call. And that's all you need to do. If you want to make a difference in your family or community or the world at large, get ready to be inspired. Please help me welcome. Lorenzo Lewis, the founder of the Confess Project to the Mel Robbins podcast.

Lorenzo, it is so fabulous to have you here. Yeah, so glad to be here. Thanks again. This is really an honor. Awesome. Well, it's an honor for us. Why don't we start with the basics? What is your mission with the Confess Project? So the Confess Project is a nonprofit organization that supports barbers and stylers to be mental health advocates. We've trained over 3,000 barbers and stylers across 52 cities in 35 states. On this model that allows them to be great listeners, to support their clients and

I'll tell to support their communities, this model is ongoing and continually growing in regards of mental health advocacy and how they are able to provide value to their friends and neighbors and their communities. Really ensuring that stigma is reduced and that people are having the best quality of life that they deserve. Do you remember the moment when you came up with the idea for the Confess Project? I remember in particular, getting my college degree, I was ecstatic because I really beat the odds of, you know, you're talking about a kid

who had been formerly incarcerated, that didn't live with his mother and father born to born in jail to an incarcerated mother losing his father to age of 10. Stand with relatives not knowing my siblings will be in a part of games. You know when I graduated college it was it was one of those iconic feelings because I didn't imagine me living to see that long or rather I thought I would be a Jill and being that I made it to that moment I also knew that there was just a deeper calling So I found myself

grappling with how could I really show up more than what I had been able to accomplish for sale And so I met a friend that was in the nonprofit space and that gave me encouragement to really share my story. And I really dealt deep and started to explore what they would look like. You talking about someone who had never done public speaking, no one who had really ever done any kind of community organizing, any kind of civic engagement work. I had no idea for what it invests to really meant. I was just grateful to not be dead or being jailed. How old were you? At that time, I was 20, maybe 24, 25, getting right out of college, 25, no more than 26 at

the most. I think this is a really important part of your story, Lorenzo, and it's one of the reasons why I tracked you down. I said, we have to get this man on the Mel Robbins podcast because your story to me is an example that no matter who you are, what background you have, what education you have, or you don't have, what family support, what trauma, any of it, that any one, including you listening to us, can make a decision that you're going to either leave your community or family the world around you a little bit better place. And so here you are, and we're going to get into your story in just a minute, but here

you are, you have beaten the odds, you have graduated from college, you have met somebody in the nonprofit space, and they're encouraging you to share your story about how you were able to graduate from college, how you were able to overcome the odds that were stacked against you. And in this moment where somebody is basically saying to you, dude, you got a lot that you could share with people. It hits you that you want to do more. And so how did you connect the dots between barbers and mental health? Really good question. And I have a really good answer.

What I grew up, my aunt who took me in as a young, I was much older when my mother wasn't incarcerated after she had birth and I was one step between going into the foster care system. And you know, they stepped in and drove out of way from Luthorock, Arkansas to New York, New Jersey, to Jersey To ensure that I did not go in the system of foster care and my aunts also was a beautician So as you can imagine growing up I went to the beauty shop every day and that was just a part of life. You know, the front of time I was You know able to go to school. I want to get off the school bus. I went to the beauty shop

That's why I did my homework in the evenings. That's where it was a mini time You know, able to go to school. I got off the school bus. I went to the beauty shop. That's why I did my homework in the evenings. That's where it was a midterm. We had dinner in the beauty shop because that's where she was working late. So, you know, this is where it was a huge part of my life every day. But I was also a mentor there.

A guy named Sylvester was the only barber there. It was about five operators there. So out of four was women and he was the a mentor there. A guy named Sylvester was the only barber there. It was about five operators there. So Adam Foy was women and he was the one male barber that I also found as my first mentor. And again, just going every day, it was a sense of family, a sense of what we, the village and our community, that really supports one another.

And this is really where I recognize the power of building barbershops, being a young kid. And so that in itself really gave the inspiration for the confessed project today. Because of going there every day and just seeing the empowerment, hearing stories of people overcoming, whether they were facing a bad relationship or something going on with their family member or out of way from people graduating college

or children going, first day of school, everything you could imagine, we heard it. We was a part of that journey in some kind of way because those conversations are shared every day. And so that's really how the work really blossomed because me finding that mental should to those empowering stories and really watching my hunt

and those stylists and barbers lift people up and everyday people that was just trying to make it. You know what else is cool about this? Is that this is your lived personal experience. And so just so everybody's following the story. When you were born, your mother was in jail and your dad was also incarcerated. And so the options for you,

and I don't know if you know this about me, but I was a legal aid attorney in New York City working for legal aid, doing criminal defense work. The other options are basically foster care unless a family member steps up. And so your aunt steps up. She drives up from Arkansas. She picks you up in Newark and she brings you back

and she happens to be an entrepreneur who is working as a beautician in a black-owned beauty and barbershop. And can you also explain for people listening either in the United States or in the 194 countries where this show is syndicated? How important a black-owned barber and beauty shop is in the black community. When you think about it from a historical, a cultural perspective, that it's not only your lived experience, but for many communities, black-owned barber shops and beauty shops also have historically been a gathering place, Ben where people organize for civil rights.

So can you talk a little bit about how your personal experience also dovetails with the lived experience of so many black Americans? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, you said, in Maryland's black barbershops and salons, really wasn't go, you know, in a civil rights era. And we think about, you know, the modern brothers,

and we think about, you think about the NAACP organizing for voters rights. All of those intersections played a role in Barber Shop. We will also think about as far back as Barbers was seen as doctors and as caretakers in our communities. As even further back as just thinking about the work that's been done and economically in barbershop. So it's one of the few places that the folks can gain generational wills by owning their barber or beauty salon. And so I think about like my aunt, you know, and for years,

her having her beauty shopping, you know, what that was able to afford in our life. And they also built a beauty shop in the back of our house as well. So it was, I had one at home and one at a waiting. So you can imagine there was a mini day that I faced sharing breakfast, but also smelling the the the fumes of chemicals from here. Yeah, so it was it was it was a part of our life and this was very common Is that people would even have this at home and they would also, you know travel is just a huge part of our lifestyles look and so

But all the way up to now, it's recognized as a, it's a hub for lifestyle, just thinking about young people going to the same barber or young ladies, seeing the same stylists for years, from the age of five to their 20, you know, depending on the different caveats in life.

So it's a huge part of, you know, our lifestyle, our lifestyle, professional lifestyle and so many ways. It's the only place outside of church where you have homeless neighbors and principals and entrepreneurs in the same place. I'll imagine classes that can gather in one place at the same time. And that's very uncommon in many places that we can gather in one place at the same time.

And that's very uncommon in many places that we can hear in society. So. It's an important piece to why I think the Confess Project is not only such a genius idea, but that it is making such an extraordinary difference. I wanna go back a little bit though because your mission

Lorenzo is to really provide access to mental health services and support to communities where there is not a lot of access. Only 4% of therapists that are trained in licensed or black. And you are also not only trying to close this accessibility gap, but you're also trying to close, or I should probably say open up, vulnerability in communities and with people who feel like therapy is a weakness. And so I would love to go back to your story. But I want to take a quick pause. We need to hear a word from our sponsors

who allow us to bring this amazing content to you for free. So let's take a listen. And when we come back, we've got more from Lorenzo and the Confess Project when we return. Stay with us. Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins and I'm here with Lorenzo Lewis and we're hearing the remarkable story about how he came up with the idea for the Confess Project and how they're reaching over 3 million people a year with free mental health services. Soloranzo, I would love to go back to your story a little bit because, you know, here you

are, you're being raised by your aunt, you are going to her store and to her home, which is now your home, every day after school. And it wasn't until a little bit later in life that you realized that you were struggling with depression and anxiety and anger. Can you talk a little bit about what you were feeling and kind of not knowing the words depression, anxiety, anger, like, what was it like for you, Lorenzo, to be a kid, and to lose your dad at 10, and to not have your mom around, and to experience the racism and bias that you experienced in your life, so that you can describe for people who may not have considered that's anxiety.

So tell us a little bit about what it was like for you. I knew in some ways, in many ways, that I had a really good upbringing, which I really did. I believe my aunt and uncle did a really good job of ensuring that in so many ways that I was able to have the support that I needed. But beyond that, I knew that there was something not really right for the most part around the way that I felt about things. How did you feel?

Lost, a lot of times very angry. And the reality of it was, maybe I blamed it on, oh, I don't like this teacher at school, or I'm not getting along with friends in the neighborhood, but the reality of it was, I didn't feel seen and heard because the truth of the matter, I didn't have my mother and father around. And I didn't share their love

and that connection with them. So I didn't feel really seen and heard and I did feel that I had been left out. And so I think in so many ways I was struggling emotionally from those challenges and from those the anxieties that came with that. Do they love me? Did I do something wrong? Is it a reason that not here? Did I have something to do with it a reason that not here? Did I have something to do with that? Like these are the kind of questions

that go on in a young person's head. When they're, especially when everything is not true, they've been explained because, I think one thing as adults, we want to ensure that I children have a great life, but I think giving them more of the story sometimes may even hurt them to tell you the real story.

And so I think in so many ways, you know, that was kind of my reality, but the reality behind it is that I really struggled emotionally. And it really showed up in school, you know, I was in a behavioral facility at the age of 10. What, explain that to people who have not worked in criminal justice like I have? So, what does behavioral health facility mean? Yeah, so I went into, you know, have some challenges in school and, you know, have been kicked out a few times. I think I was probably more in the third grade at that point, so, you know, could stand class. So it was, hey, you know, this is my next option.

Can I just say something? When you have kids that go undiagnosed with depression and anxiety and who feel invisible, of course, there will be behavioral issues. And it makes me very angry and sad Lorenzo. How many kids are getting disciplined because they quote, can't behave when the real issue is there are mental health challenges that the child is facing or there are learning-style differences that the child has that are not recognized and addressed by the capable adults around them. And so it just makes me angry to hear that a third grader is being kicked out of school because of behavioral issues. So here you are, you're getting kicked out of school.

You're having behavioral issues because you can't understand or tolerate this like just swirl of emotion that you're feeling. And you end up in this behavioral health facility. What was that like? Yeah, you know, I was away for about too much. They did allow us to go home on weekends. There was mostly structures seeing up there. It was a very dark place to be at as a young kid. Someone that I had never been away from home for that amount of time. I had just lost my dad and really that was my way.

I was really angry and upset from the loss of him. So that really swelled into challenges at school which led me there. And I think that's the one thing that we have to recognize in society is that when someone's going through grief and those different challenges that that it can look different, it can manifest into mental health challenges. Well, that's grief.

I mean, like what you're talking about is that what came up on the surface was anger. But what you were actually dealing with was the profound grief and loss and sadness. And if you already felt lost in life and wondered if people cared about you and wondered where you belong to have your dad then die, that only just kicks that in high gear. And so it doesn't surprise me that it comes out as anger. And I think that's what happens a lot of time with men in particular is you guys get sad and you guys experience loss or

disappointment and or bias or discrimination and you shove it down and what happens when you shove all that down is it a volcano erupts and that's what you're describing and so you know a kid that needed grief counseling ends up acting out at school and then gets sent somewhere for behavioral health, which is just again pointing to how we fail people so much when it comes to challenges that we face emotionally and mentally. Did you, is that when you learned that it might be anxiety or depression or did they just

sort of calm you down and send you back to school? I think I understood it more as this was a getaway because my dad had passed. It was just in my reality. It was a getaway from home to really process the loss of him and I think everything right. And so, you know, moving past that point, going back into school, it was also a sense of shame attached to where I had been, you know, and I think this is where the stigma of mental health

really shows up because here I am going back to school and I go, wherever you been, I can see you in a while is like, yeah, you know, I've been to this place, right? I, you know, and trying to make it more cool than knowing it wasn't cool because not wanting to be shame. And I think that's very common is, you know, we think about mental health and have these conversations,

it's because that's how it typically looks where, you know, we don't really empower the situation more or less. So yeah, I was kind of displaced and it was different than what I'm really describing, but really I'm describing it differently because I'm ashamed of where I really was, right? Yeah. I experienced that early on in life, which really also, I think think can be a part of our lived experience because that becomes dormant to knowing how we navigate emotional challenges. That's right because if you are surrounded by either a family or a community or an entire culture where there is shame or judgment for getting help,

or it's weak if you are struggling emotionally or mentally, I always find it interesting that for example, if you're in financial stress, like you can't pay your fricking bills, I've been in that place where I cannot, I can't put groceries on the table, I'm sitting there with the check card and I'm like, dear God, please let there be a computer failure

and let this go through. Cause I know there's no money in this account, but you know, maybe, maybe I'll swipe it in, it'll work. And worrying about real financial stress is a form of anxiety. Yes. Feeling shame that you can't pay your bills can lead to depression. And so these very real experiences that people have lead to mental health challenges that make it worse and make it harder for you to face it.

But so you come back from this and you continue with school and then you have one more incident, right, that really was a wake up call for you. Can you describe what happened? Yeah, so later, I would say fast forward to being 17 years old, I moved past that point, going through that, I kind of went through my honeymoon period after post being a behavioral facility, and then I find myself joining a game, and that led to me being incarcerated,

due to a fire on one of the things that I really want to shine light on is it wasn't me joining a game and being charged with the fire on that really is old. But I want to really also encompass that the loss again, the mental health challenges and the not being, you know, it's just a core. I asked a proverb to say a child who does not feel wrong from the village would burn it down. And I was that child that did not feel loved and seen. So everything moving forward was to be a detriment. Now knowing that's really what I was causing, but however, it was a lash out on self as a, hey, I'm going to, you know, put myself around

these kind of people and put myself around these kind of risks. It's something that I internalized that also did manifest to be in the part of the legal system. So Lorenzo, this feels like a great moment to take a quick

pause and hear a word from our sponsors because they can bring us all this amazing content at zero cost. So stay with us and we will be right back with more. Welcome back, I'm Mel Robbins. I'm here with Lorenzo Lewis. He is the founder of the Confess Project. His nonprofit has trained over 3,000 barbers and butchers to become mental health advocates. They now serve over 3 million people a year who sit in the chairs in

these barbershops and these beauty salons. And Lorenzo, your story is incredible. You were born in a prison to an incarcerated mother. Your aunt and uncle raised you until you're 17 years old. And here you are, we're at the part of the story, we're at the age of 17. You're in a gang, you're facing jail time for possession of a weapon. Your aunt and uncle, they must have been

beside themselves with you. Yeah, it was very, furious to say the least for sure. That was very, because she does not seem like the kind of woman that would play around. You know what I'm saying? And honestly, they, you know, they, they really did a really good job of instilling morals and,

and those principles. I think that allowed me to become the person that I am today to really serve, you know, and, and, and obviously, um, show up in the community the way I do because they really stood on great things, but I think myself knowing the challenges that I went through, I veered into that path. Yeah. Well, I think what happens Lorenzo, and I don't know if this is true for you, so I would love to hear your thoughts on this, is that you were clearly in an environment in that barber shop with your aunt in particular, very tied to your values. And when sorrow and despair and feeling lonely and invisible and all that grief hits, it can create a barrier between you and your ability to connect to those values and ground yourself there.

You become lost in the swirl of emotion and anger and the proverb that you said that when a child doesn't feel warmed by the village, they'll burn it down. That's why anger rises to the surface when people feel isolated and unseen and when they're struggling. And so it doesn't surprise me that first of all mental health challenges are what led you to losing your way, but that ultimately when you started to address the mental health challenges, you found yourself easily connecting back with those values. And so, you know, how did you turn it around? What was it? Was there a moment when you were incarcerated and you're 17 years old, where you're like, I gotta turn this shit around.

This is, I'm either going down, there are forks in the road in your life, where you don't realize it in the moment, but you make one decision and it changes the rest of your life. So was there a moment where you had an epiphany as you're in this low place that you gotta do something different?

Like what happened? Yeah, so, you know, I would never forget that we coming up to court and, you know, I just remember a lot of the kids in there, it was, you know, it's a lot of them were having been repeat offenders, they had been in and out. And we was finding out, you know,

Cole was there Monday morning, it was like, you know, Faggot I Who was gonna be my judge. And it was just one particular judge that everyone was just like, yeah, if you get this judge, like they're gonna lock you up long, but you'll be here longer. So I was doing everything I could to pray and like, well, I just hope I'm gonna get to serve judge.

Well, I so happily got a judge that was, you know, very much opposite to what I think the other young people was saying while I was in there, but saying I was the same, that weekend as I said in there and I was getting ready for court, it just kept rumbling in my head that this was the same place that I was born in. This is what my father was. And I just remember feeling just so hurt, so lost, so empty.

And I just, I remember saying, if I can get out of this, I don't ever want to experience this again. Now, I'm 17 years old. I'm a month before being 18. And I was supposed to be enjoying my last year of being in school at this time. And so I was so, you know, got tied up with a gun and, you know, following the wrong people. And so, when I got to court that Monday, you know, I was given a second chance.

And a lot of it was because of my aunt and, you know, I think, then pleading with the court to give me another chance because I had never been in no prior trouble. And I was just got caught up in a situation. But I remember promising the judge that if she could give me another chance that I would go to college that I wouldn't, she would never have to worry about finding me in the system again. And I kept my word and I look back today and that's something that I always said that I never wanted to do was to be a part of it.

To have to go into that small room ever again and spend any time. And so I think it was just a collective of just hating where I was and that money hated the way I felt, but also being scared and noted I could end up spending more time there if I didn't figure out how to get out of this situation or if it would continue. So that just led me to one that just changed everything. So yeah, that was the turning point for me. That time that I spent in juvenile was just really, it was just really eye opening.

I didn't really enjoy it. I hated every bit of it. And I was just, I think I just was so focused on wanting to be much better than I was. And I think it goes back again to just the values that my un-in-on-le really instilled in me growing up. Despite my challenges, I went through knowing that I could really create a life better

for myself regardless of where I came from. So I think it's so poignant what you said about the fact that you were reflecting on this is where I was born. And this is not where I'm gonna end up. And my father's story is not gonna be my story. And it certainly isn't, because you went from that courtroom back to high school, you graduated, you never looked back.

You then went to Arkansas, Baptist College. And what did you study there? Human services. And for people that don't know what that means, what is human services? Yeah, so it's mostly, you know, I think in a better broader terms is supporting the quality of life

and well-being of people, whether that's through economical, economic, civil, social practices of listening people. So the work that I do, I was to write as supporting people to getting access to mental health services is a, I think, a clear example of what I want to argue some Baptist college for but it can also be as well as for you know supporting you know young people that you know that may be at risk of going to the criminal justice system. So those are just obviously just peer examples. Okay so you

graduate and what was it like to graduate? You're like, damn, I did it. I'm gonna take this photo and send it to that judge and tell her I kept my word. Yeah. It was an illuminating experience. You know, again, I think it was one of those, can't believe we made it.

You know, can't believe I made it. So it was,, you know, came to leave I made it. So it was, and, you know, again, the people that I grew up around, the folks that I have with the school with, and most of the people just run up in the urban community in the South, you know, it was just one of more things, you know, it was, you know, either I'm gonna go be an athlete

and go to college or, you know, I'm gonna get lost to the streets and, you know, get on some kind of drugs and never make it or, I may not make it at all and I may be dead. And so, you know, it was just only a few options. And obviously, I wasn't an athlete and so, and I, you know, and I think the other two options just wasn't favorable. So, I did everything I could to know going to college. And I think the other two options just wasn't favorable. So I did everything I could to know, going to college, and I really worked hard to, to ensure that I could get my way out of that. And so I'm glad that I was, you know, start a favorable road to work towards, you know, graduating and getting to this point.

So. Well, thank God you did because your organization is now helping over 3 million people a year in terms of mental health advocacy. And so let's talk about the fact that right after college, you went and worked with the Department of Human Services. And I'm outlining your story, Lorenzo, because again,

you are an example of somebody who made a decision, who reconnected with his values, who leaned into the struggle, who allowed himself to be vulnerable, and you turned your whole life around. And now you're taking all of this, and you've turned it into this incredible, incredible organization, the, you know, the Confess Project, where you're helping millions of people. And your story and life is an example to all of us that if there is some change you want to make in your life, it is possible to do it. And if you are willing to serve others,

you will be blown away by the difference that you can make. And so your couple years into your career, you're working at the Department of Health and Human Services. And you start to notice that your colleagues who were working with youth and who were working with people that needed help kept saying, I wish I could reach them. I wish I could get through to these kids. I wish I could help. I wish I could do this.

And they kept saying, I'm just not getting through the therapist, the trained professionals, the psychologists that were, quote, in the system at the Department of Human Services, this is what inspired you to do something about it. So can you talk to us about the actual inspiration that you had that made you go, aha, the therapist and psychologist don't get it, but I do. And this is what I'm going to do. You know, it was countless conversations that I had working with, you know, different patients that was coming in at the hospital at the time. I mostly worked in a hospital setting for the most part.

So, you know, they was there from seven to 14 days stayed. But every day I interacted with folks from all different walks of life, whether they was someone that was coming out of the justice system to a teacher to an attorney, depending on wherever they may have been in life, you know, they was going through some kind of, you know, emotional challenges that, you know, they were there of getting treatment. So were you working in like an inpatient ward

for a hospital that was providing mental health services for somebody who was having a breakdown? Yes. So in other words, Lorenzo, you were a human being with angel wings on your back. That was caring for people in a really low place. And so he's like, okay, he's sitting there, just imagine this everybody,

he's sitting there with his angel wings on his back and his college of dream tucked under his arm, and he's here to serve and he's got people of all walks of life coming into this hospital system and Arkansas and you started to notice something. What did you notice? That everybody was really human, first and foremost, that people,

no matter where they had accomplished and where they was planning on heading, that we all could face challenges. But I also think one of the things that really stood out is that everyone had a unique story and situation that set them apart, but even as you began to get across ethnicity, people of color, it even became more interesting to how they were really being supported in this system that I worked in. Meaning they were not being supported. Correct.

Not being supported. Correct. Not being supported. Not a lot of it was, a lot of the patients would be what I would call return folks. They would come back and forth. A lot of what, you know, it's just pointless and you know, it just, it didn't seem like there was a lot of purpose. And the one reason that I really resonated because I had been to a similar place. So I knew and I could tell the sentiments and the emotions that they shared because I had been there as a kid. And Lorenzo, what were some of those emotions? The key things that I resonated with the date

was not really feeling honored. And I believe not really feeling, not feeling really included. I think that was more the most, and I'm not feeling included because there was people that didn't look like you. And this gets to the point of, like, it, it is hard to get through to somebody who's struggling when you have no freaking clue what their lived experiences because you are a different race or a different socio-economic class. And it's easier to get through to somebody when you have a lived experience that you can authentically connect with.

And so what you're highlighting here in your experience, Lorenzo, as you were seeing, the impact that it has on the black patient population when only 4% of trained and licensed mental health professionals are black, That if you don't see yourself represented by the very people that are trying to help you, how on earth could the people that are trying to help you get better understand what the fuck you're going through. And so that's what you started to see day in and day out, that's what you felt. Yeah, I believe a lot of times when we don't trust people that most of the time with his people that we can't, we feel like they don't resonate with our life experiences

that may not look like who we are or come from where we are, that can create a barrier to access to mental health services in general. But I think it's even a step further when sometimes the compassion and the just humanity is not present in regards of how we connect with people about how they feel. And so I think that, you know, that in itself can create this trust. Also I think just historically, you know, there are just, you know, there's many challenges in communities of color and how we don't trust Y medical providers or we may not trust people with, you know, that's an authority, right? And so these things can really create a ladder of distrust for people giving services and getting the help that they need because some of it is tied to, you know, you know, heard in English that's been, you know, kind of boiling

over years to come. So I want to bring this saying that I learned from my really good friend, Ed Millett. I just love this because I think that this is what your life demonstrates. Ed told me, Mal, you are best equipped to help the person you used to be, which means we are all equipped to help someone. And what you saw in your mid-twenties, and this is why I admire you so much, you saw in your mid-twenties a problem. You saw people that you used to be struggling, and not enough people in the leadership and the therapy positions actually in an ability to serve them at a deep level because they did not look like these folks, they did not relate to the

experiences they were struggling with, they did not understand that racism creates complex PTSD. They didn't get any of it. And so you decided to do something about it. And you know, for you listening to Lorenzo and I today, I so wanted you to hear Lorenzo's story because we all sit around and think like, well, I don't have a degree. I don't like, I need somebody's permission. I'm not qualified to do that.

And what Lorenzo is doing by training barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates and support. From the chair up into communities reaching millions and millions of people every year is he is basically proving that excuse is complete bullshit. I am not a licensed therapist and yet this is probably one of the biggest podcasts that talks about mental health issues on the planet. You are best equipped to help the person you used to be. How did you go? Okay, I got it.

I got to do something. I got it. Barbershops. How did you go? I'm going to train barbers and beauticians all across the country to learn how to spot mental health challenges. I'm going to learn, I'm going to train them to be advocates. What the hell gave you this idea, Lorenzo? Well, honestly, consider our conversation about my journey

working in the system. It really started at first as I did my first mental health event at a church, a black church, probably African American church, and a little around Garconsol. And it was a blast. I had never organized an event. I mean, I think we had several hundred people, it was like a back to school event,

but we centered around mental health. Mm-hmm. And this brought a lot of community leaders out. It was great. It was led from dead. I think I did a couple of other like town hall events. And I was like, okay, this is interesting. And I really was able to go out and get support. But one of the things that made me to something that obviously now that we do quite a bit

as we fundraise to continue this work is going out telling my story in which interest, what wise is important. And I was able to go on a lot of support even just from family and friends and that really kind of struck a chord to say that I think I'm on the something right and as I begin to do that some of those events when we started getting more specific about we want to reach men a lot of men wouldn't come out we would host them in local libraries and we would like, you know, use some kind of multi-purpose event room and no men would show up. All the women who want their men to get mental health will show up. Yes. Now talk to everybody about why men are not showing up because this is where there's the accessibility piece, which is the access to licensed and trained people that is what you're trying to solve by training people that are barbers

and beauticians first to be mental health advocates. But then there's this vulnerability piece where admitting that you've got some sort of mental health challenge or admitting that you might need help or even thinking about it makes you weak. And so talk a little bit about how big of a challenge this is because this is really the heart of your mission. You are really trying to reach men and boys first and foremost in the black community with the Confess Project. Yeah, you know, well, one of the huge challenges is, is, is, is, honestly, is manhood. I think it's just the, the ideology of manhood to each man can look different. Mm-hmm.

But I will say for cross-line, it's complex. And it's very similar complexities across lines across all men. And then when you get down to talking about black men, you consider race and socioeconomic class. And you know, I think you even get a tool grander challenge around how men view themselves and how they outwardly can be vulnerable. And so because, you know, being strong and most of the time growing up with mothers and no fathers in the home and just, you know, it can be, those in itself can be some traits or risks that can make it very challenging. I think you even go beyond that as you start to think about, well, what does media display?

What happens, you know, what does hip hop artists display? How does the songs and the, you know, the people that we follow, how do, you know, that's so grateful for people like Charlotte Managot and different folks who have came out to make mental health a champion opportunity because that just didn't really exist when I was coming up as much as a young

black man. He just didn't. And you know, I'm glad to see that that's obviously, you know, I'm looking to encourage more men to thinking about how this is important because of the work that we do. But that's a big part of it. I believe one of the huge challenges is the cultural connection behind mental health and then that goes to the accessibility of mental health services. And so in real terms, culturally our community has not been conditioned to understand that mental health is equal as important as is your physical health or your financial health and even your well-being. Like we've disconnected in most ways that our mental health is separate from anything else

when it's actually a huge part of who we are every day. And so I believe that's one of the huge disconnection. I believe that's a cultural challenge because our leaders, our medical system is not the only ones who's truly responsible for this. I believe this is something that goes across our public and civic leaders, churches, and more people should be encouraging that mental health is truly a part of who we are every day. And so, and I think that's, that probably will be my, probably my greatest feedback for that part soon.

So Lorenzo, what is your definition of vulnerability? And what does that look like to be vulnerable in your everyday life? I think at the core of this, what I do know at the core of vulnerability is really being totally transparent but also recognizing to be transparent about your still evolving and your journey of vulnerability as well. And I think it helps to show that to your child or young people or people whoever you're actually interfacing because we're all still a work in progress when it comes to being fully transparent. And mostly because, you know, culture, we just, we just haven't been programmed to believe

that being open is really being the new sexy, right? And so I think that, you know, by modeling this, it's by really being an authenticity, really recognizing that you're still learning and growing through this as well. And that while doing so, you know, we're just we're taking a step further to ultimately reach, you know, that broader staircase of success around vulnerability. And I think that that's just but really happened to share those nuggets along the journey, just, but really having to share those nuggets along the journey is really going to be helpful as well. And that's one thing with the confess project we're focused on. How do we erase barriers to stigma and shame completely? And I think it starts by utilizing culture

and starting to give you a vulnerability. I think it's a huge part of it. You know, I read that for every thousand barbers and beauticians that go through your four step training process in terms of the skills that you're teaching them to be mental alphabets, you're reaching a million people. Yes, that's incredible. You're reaching three million people a year by training barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates as they are listening to their clients who are sitting in their chair. And what does the training look like?

There are four parts to it, and I would love for you to explain it because these four parts are things that we can all learn how to do for people in our lives. Absolutely. So the four parts of the training is active listening, validation, positive communication, and stigma reduction. It is a four-point formula that I like to call it that therapeutically is used in a lot of therapeutic sessions with therapists and patients. But it is, we utilize it in an advocacy space in regards to how barbers and stylists can help their clients by using these tools after cutting here. So it is, you know, perfect example, it's a conversation

that they're having with their client every week about how's life going, how's work going, but they can lean in and use these skills that their client is going through a challenge at home or at work and they are able to listen better. They're able to communicate in a positive way. They're able to reduce stigma and uplift mental health and embrace it more than lift to saying, you know, hey, you shouldn't worry about that. I hate just pray about it. It's going to be okay. And really be able to use these skills as a promoted way, a promotion of promoting a healthy mental health, an emotional journey

and their mental health journey, particularly. So it's really a, I always like to say it's the perfect way of doing a groomed decision, make us all want to feel good on the outside and in the inside. Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. You know, we've, you know, worked with these barbers and provided the training and support. It's really empowered them individually, probably just as much as it has empowered their clients.

And I think that's something that's very important because as we empower them to be their best self, it really helps to connect with the broad audience in the community, because that's really the purpose of the actual training is that if we can reach someone, reach them that they can reach, other people and those people can reach even more people in their household and their communities,

it can really become a ripple effect. And so I feel like that in itself has been an impact. Let's just say, somebody comes in, I plop down in the chair, and you're my barber, and I'm having a hard day. What do you do as the barber that is part of the Confess Project?

So, you know, you can lead us, hey, you know, I noticed that your day is going hard. Man, I know, you know, you was here last week. You know, what's going on? How is everything? You know, how can I be supportive? In this moment, you know, you are actively listening to their feedback that they may have given you. You're also showing that you can communicate in a positive way,

but you're also even just about old few words. You're even starting to validate them. So maybe they're next responses. I'm having a hard time in work. I'm about to lose my job, I'm behind on my bills. And you know, it can even go to you know I understand that you're going through this and you know I'm with you here in this moment you know I'm compassionate. We also provide the bar with resources in regards to how they can

support individuals that may need housing that may need you know sign up for health care so outside of the training that we offer, there also we provide a resource directory to each barber shop to be able to help people with whether that's getting employment or whether that's just general resources, you know, whether that's bill pay, you know, so outside of, because we recognize that mental health can be impacted by people's daily walk

and life. Oh, of course. Like, I was just thinking about that example. I'm about to lose my job. That's a situation that causes anxiety. And if you start to spiral in your head, you're not going to be able to problem solve and to get ahead of it. And to be proactive, you're going to get trapped in your thoughts and you're going to feel

ashamed. And, you know, one of the things that I found as we were preparing for this interview is that we pulled our audience of more than five million people. And I was really sadly not surprised that roughly one out of every five people that responded to some questions that we put up on Instagram said there was no one, not one person that they felt like they could go to. And when we asked them to name Lorenzo, the quality of the person that they could talk to, the same word kept coming up over and over and over again, non-judgmental, non-judgmental. And I think when you think about training your barber, your hairstyleist, your beautician in these skills of active listening, of validating, of leaning

in, of asking questions, what's going on? How can I help you? You know, it's normal to struggle, but you know, you can't let the worry get you down. You might want to call this number and get some help so that like when you train somebody just to do those small things, you're training people to help in a non-judgmental way. And I think one of the reasons why we confess so much to our hairdressers, I mean, I know I do. She knows more about me than my therapist for crying out loud, is because I just kind of

feel like it's not going to go anywhere. And that she's not judging me. And that's what you found too. In fact, the Confess Project has participated in this big study at Harvard Medical School. Can you tell everybody a little bit about that study and what you found by training and amplifying this incredible group of barbers and beauticians to be mental health advocates. Yeah, so there were 32 barbers who participated across eight states in the Harvard Research Study. And it lasted for about eight to nine months. It was very interesting.

My barbers was honestly overexcited. It was started off as not as exciting because, you know, you have a large institution company and want to talk with, talk with people about mental health, relatively safe, that it was an exciting opportunity. One of the things that we really recognized early as the study became about, and even as it's now published, recently we've been publishing an international journal to really show the great work that happened, but Barbers are shown to be mental health and suicide prevention gatekeepers. Wow. And also can be an aid to help decrease interpersonal community violence as well. But also something

we saw in the research is that women, barbers and stylists are just as instrumental because they are a great connection to children and their mental health. And it's even to say as well the study revealed that this framework that we have can be beneficial to even domestic violence. So it was many minutes and that's just kind of high level, high level results that we got out of it. And that goes along to also say that, you know, the Confedis project, you know, 90% of our barbers that has participated rather received therapy in the barbershop rather than going to a clinic. Now, why do you think that is? Comfortability, honestly, and I believe,

you know, the cultural component. And I think even environmental, you know, who, you know, again, we go back to the stigma and shame with mental health, going to see a, what some of our barbers say, I don't want to go see a shrink inside of it. You know, in a clinic. And so I think it's the, it's the cultural. But now you're bringing in the training. Yeah. And so one of the things that's so fascinating about this is that people go back to their barber or their petition over and over.

And so this relationship develops and you see somebody and you tell your barber and your beautician everything. And so I would imagine that it's like the perfect opportunity to really give people support, especially at a moment in time, Lorenzo, where people feel so lonely, they feel isolated. Most people don't have the resources to hire a therapist or a mental health professional. And you are providing this kind of service and intervention right at the chair. And the people in the chair don't even realize it. I mean, this is incredible.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I think it's just, you know, we're glad that obviously, farmers and stylists have been seeing as cultural assets as community leaders. And glad that we're now helping them to use their assets in a greater way around supporting their mental health, supporting their will being, because we know what one's mental health is great,

their will being and who they are as a person will shine even better. Hmm. Can you give us just a couple examples of how barbers and beauticians that have gone through this training have made a difference already in small ways and big ways? Yeah, so you know, we've had, you know, barbers and stylists that has went through this program to, you know, put them all themselves to,

to check themselves and to a rehab, to, you know, build a stronger relationship with their children, build a stronger relationship better in their marriages. But all the way enough, more to help save someone from taking their life by suicide. Wow. And, you know, dying by suicide rather than so, we've seen it at the very most minimal state of relationship, better boundaries, better health, better well-being, to saving lives. And so that's how impactful this training that we're they're using that,

you know, tied around active listening and how to communicate better, how to reduce one, reduce stigma around mental health, but also how to get someone to how to reduce one, reduce stigma around mental health, but also how to get someone to help that may be in a crisis. Well, you know, it's true. Like, if you think about even some of the little day-to-day struggles of people face Lorenzo, we don't talk about it. But if you're sitting in the barber's chair, and you're kind of looking yourself and this person that you know is behind you and they're touching you and they're like, how's your day going? You tend to start to spill the beans. And so sometimes the difference between you, like just drowning in heartache over a breakup or you

not knowing what to do about a kid of yours that's struggling in school. Like the difference can be made by one person listening and making a suggestion that makes you start to feel like you could do something or this is a resource that you could call and you through the Confess Project are training barbers and beauticians to do that for people. That's extraordinary. So do you go to schools or like because I also wonder what's it like to walk into a room full of barbers? They all got their arms crossed. They're standing there. They're like, oh God, what's this dude doing? And you're going in to do mental health advocacy training. Are people receptive?

Do you have to win them over? I mean, I realize now you're really a big shot. So people know about the project and you reach millions of people. But was it hard in the beginning to get people to see the connection? It was. It was incredibly hard.

And I think one of the reasons is because, you know, you know, to stick my mental health, I'll go back to that again. I think, you know, we got a lot of kick back early on, you know, before we start getting support by, you know, Gillette and working with, you know, you know, corporations, you know, and then supported by people like and's Clippers, and really being able to create, I say street credibility in the barber world, and really create a cultural connection. I was struggling with getting people to get on board, and it took a while, but I think

the most apprehensive thing in the beginning was, we don't know who you are and we don't know how this is going to work in our establishment. And so I think it was just, honestly, just finding a few barbers that was committed at first, using that as a testimonial and then taking that on the road and just saying, hey, they did it. Can you do it too? Can you do it? And so it just became a repetition. And before you know it, it just became a, it's the thing that just exists now in the

industry. We go to Barbara X foes, major events all over the country. And on you sponsor by Gillette, you got all these corporate sponsors now helping out like this is so Fricking inspiring. How long did you keep your your corporate job with the Department of Health and Human Services? Why you did this on the side until it became your full-time thing? Oh Very minimal like that, you know, I literally I Very minimal. I got you know, I literally I

became so infused with this After I got my degree, you know, I worked and looked at I worked in the hospital for a while and I just had this significant. I need to leave work. I think I left with a very minimal savings. I knew I will run out of money I had a very young daughter at the time. I'm, she's, was your wife like you're crazy? Yeah. Keep in that, because that's what I said to my husband when he was going to quit his job to pursue his dream.

I'm like, no, you're not. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I just, you know, it was very, a lot of, really had to struggle a lot to build this in the beginning. But I knew that I needed to do it four times. And I'm so glad that I did mail because when I look back on it now, it's really the reason that it has flurs because I was able to do, I mean, I've been knowing

this now for seven years. And I've been like locked focus on everything. We've accomplished more that I think we would have, we've probably accomplished more than we would have took us 10 years to do if I had have done it. It's lower case. Yeah. But when you really think about the mental health crisis, we think about the suicide crisis on young people, the suicide crisis on black men between ages of 24 and on, that's the third leading cause of death. This was nothing we could really take lightly or take slowly. death, this was nothing we could really take lightly or take slowly. And I think that's what always drove me was knowing that this is a crisis issue and we have to solve the problem. That's the difference between a career and a calling. Yes. You have a calling. Yes. And

I'm glad you answered the call. Yes. Tell me about the difference that the confessed project made when somebody came in and said it was going to be their last haircut and they were suicidal. It was a game changer and that story was out of Johnson City, Tennessee. And you know the barber had been you know working with that client. I'm just gonna sum for a period of time and you know he was going through some challenges and you know he said he didn't want to be here any longer but so happily in that scenario he was able to get help because two weeks prior to the we had been in Tennessee doing a training and brought there for us to So happily in that scenario, he was able to get help because two weeks prior to that, we had been in Tennessee doing a training and brought therapists, we like to invite therapists

to those trainings or we connect with therapists and local communities to connect them with barber shops. And he was able to get help. Now same story, different city, Philadelphia, Southside, or Philadelphia, very same situation. God walks in the barbershop and say, I don't want to live any longer. I'm a walk out in traffic and I'm going to take my life. Had never met the barbers.

This was a story that we was told after we provided the training. Like, man, I wish you guys had been here last year. I did this. And it know, it just shows that when we provide that support, what can happen? And this guy particularly in Philadelphia went missing. He had a psychotic episode. The bar was didn't know what to do. They was seeking word that, you know, he had took his life. So, apparently he was found, but they didn't have the skills and the tools to react. Yeah, and I think we all know, because I could imagine some people listening right now,

is, well, why wouldn't you just call the police? Well, I'll tell you why. First of all, in a lot of communities, there is no trust with the police. Secondly, having police officers show up when it should be mental health, professional showing up in a situation like that. And we also know that legally, you can't take somebody into custody for mental health services unless they are

an immediate harm to themselves in that moment. And so you, there is a big hole. And so knowing how to talk to somebody, knowing how to lean in and listen, knowing how to validate, and then knowing how to do what the Confess Project Barbers did in Tennessee after your training, which was to support this person in a very low moment and connect them with services that got them the support and the help that they needed. That's exactly the right approach and you created it.

What does it feel like Lorenzo? To know that you saved that guy's life? Yeah, you know, I'm glad that we took the risk. And the reason why I saved the risk, this model had, to be honest, had never really been done before. When we first started, we had no data, we had no blueprint. It was just really something that was inside of my head,

my lived experiences, but it was also filled with a lot of hope. And again, like you said, a calling. And it just leaves me to be grateful that we did take the risk to actually implement something that we know the world really needed in this moment. And I think we even moving forward. And so it just fulfills me to know that, you know, glad that I was able to be, you know, that we were able to really advance this forward.

I think regardless of the challenges that we faced over the years of kind of putting this together, because it has been a really rocky road. I think anytime you're dealing with community related work and really trying to get moved people across the certain cause, it takes time and it can be a lot of challenges, but I believe we've gotten to a place where we know that this is something that's appreciated and it's obviously that's very much needed so. And working.

So what's your vision for the next 10 years? You know, honestly, at this point, you know, it's to expand this model as far as we can take it. We have done this same training with first responders. We've done this training with law enforcement, educators, counselors. My divas imagination is that we can impact all walks of life, all different kind of people all across the world.

But we recognize we recently formed a start-up, virtual is really cool and new virtual training that really gives to users. So what we're rather training like super users people to use this to train other people across multiple places and really multiply ourselves more. We really formed a, I said, a new product that's going to allow us to really scale bigger. My goal is that this can go across the world and really impact more people than what we've been able to impact here in the United States. And so that's why I was so glad about being here because of the reach that I know this podcast has and, you know, and just the impact that I know

what the world when people find out about these things it can really reach a lot of people so absolutely well there's no doubt in my mind that you will get it done. Lorenzo thank you thank you thank you Lorenzo Lewis everybody the Confess Project we will be linking to everything so that you can check it out and you can introduce it to the salons and the first responders in your neighborhood. And we'll provide all the resources as well to the training that we all could be using.

Because I love this thing that I read that you said that, look, you know, when you get CPR training, it's so you can keep somebody alive when the EMTs arrive. And this confess project helps keep people alive and keep them going until the professional help arrives. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Absolutely. No, thank you. How? Thank you so much for the opportunity.

My pleasure. I told you you would love him. I told you you would feel inspired. I bet you've got all kinds of ideas turning in your head. Now I want you to do something about it. I want you to take a step forward. That's why I invited Lorenzo on because I know that you can make a difference.

And you don't need permission, you don't need to be asked. You are in the best position to serve the person that you used to be. Remember that and go do it. And in case nobody else tells you, I want to remind you that I love you, I believe in you, I am here for you every step of the way and I know you got what it takes to create the life that you love. Now get out there and go do it and I'll talk to you in a few days. That was a chicken garlic situation. That was that chicken garlic situation. Oh, you're not kidding. We meant to clean this mic. You know what, I think I need to,

oh, I am in control. Am I in control here? Let me be in control. How do I do this? I go to Slack. Boom. That's it. Okay, we're going in a Zoom meeting

that I don't want to go in right now. Okay. Oh, is it in chat? I can hit it in chat if that's that. Okay, we're going in a Zoom meeting that I don't wanna go in right now. Okay. Oh, is it in chat? I can hit it in chat if it's there it is. There she is. Pfft. Okay, and then I'm gonna pop this up. Hold on one second.

Okay, thank you. Here we go. All right, let me do that one more time. Oh, where do you want to go next? Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyer's right and what I need to read to you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode.

Stitcher. That's it.