The Menstruality Podcast - 103. The Power of Trusting the Mystery for Creativity and Motherhood (Rebecca Campbell)

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

What to do when you find yourself in a creative void, either because life has thrown you a curve ball, or you find yourself feeling totally uninspired? Our cycles teach us to trust the fallow times, but that’s a tall order in a world that celebrates productivity above all else. Our guest today is author, Rebecca Campbell and she’s a great person to have this conversation for many reasons, but especially because she’s personally navigated many periods of creative void in order to bring forth creations which have touched the lives of 100s of 1000s of people, including several books, courses, a new podcast and a mystery school.The deeper reason for the richness of this conversation is that Rebecca is a being who fully embraces the mystery. She defines herself as a mystic, and her calling is to weave the sacred back into everyday life. We explore: Why it’s ok to suck at the beginning of any creative process, and how staying safe is an antidote to creativity. How to hold ourselves through big creative leaps, like leaving your job, or starting something brand new.The journaling process that helps Rebecca move through imposter syndrome, and how trusting the mystery helps us to find the courage to share our voice.---Join our new Your Creative Power online course and save £100 before Sep 10th: www.redschool.net/creativity ---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you for joining us today. What do you do when you find yourself in a creative void? Either because life has thrown you some kind of curveball or you just find yourself feeling totally uninspired. Our menstrual cycles teach us to

trust these kind of fallow times, but that's a tall order in a world that celebrates productivity above all else. So our guest today is author Rebecca Campbell, and she's a great person to have this conversation with for many reasons but especially because she's personally navigated lots of periods of creative void in order to bring forth creations which have touched the lives of hundreds of thousands of people including several books, courses, a new podcast and a mystery school. But the deeper reason for the richness of the conversation today is that Rebecca is a being who fully embraces the mystery. She defines herself as a mystic and her calling is to weave the sacred back into everyday life. She's also very light-hearted and warm and practical so you'll

find a treasure trove of creative advice in here. We talk about why it's okay to suck at the beginning of a creative process and actually how staying safe is an antidote to creativity. How to hold ourselves through big leaps like leaving your job or starting something brand new and the journaling process that helps Rebecca to move through imposter syndrome. But probably my favourite bit was when Rebecca shares the best career advice she's ever received. So thanks so much for joining us here on the Mentor Duality podcast. Rebecca, it's really great to have you with us my pleasure so happy to be here I've been immersing myself in in the world of your creations over the last couple of weeks and we're talking about creativity a lot on the podcast at the moment and as I've been looking at your books and your work it feels to me like a really key theme of your work is is trust

trusting ourselves trusting life trusting the mystery and I'd like that to be the kind of golden thread that we're holding today because so many people in our community me totally included find it so hard to take to trust all parts of the creative process oh my god totally because some of them are really like messy and uncomfortable and yeah yeah just just downright difficult so I'd love that to be our theme today but before we get into it um could we do a cycle check-in that's the way we sort of start the podcast checking in about where you're at cyclically at the moment I think around about day 13 um I've just had a baby recently so I'm kind of just only just getting back into kind of tracking again do you know what I mean then to be honest

it's like is one of those things like it's like yeah like obviously your period just comes back but then also just those basic um rituals that you would do before it's like you kind of like lose the will to know what your normal rhythms are so it's like you kind of forget what your rhythm was before you know what I mean absolutely so I'm kind of you know I've downloaded the app I I've been I've tracked the past two periods but yeah I'm kind of not on it at the moment but I I know I know within me where I'm where I am but I'm not like and I'm day this today totally get it but yeah how how's the postpartum period feeling because your little person is is seven months yeah she's seven months um yeah I mean it's complex isn't it like it's a complex question I

think that um yeah it feels very different from my first my first was in COVID so that was you know the world was on fire everyone was isolated isolated. It was just so full on. And my son, he's Venus in Scorpio like me, so he's got an intensity to him. And he definitely brought up a lot of intensity. And it was intense times that he was born into. Whereas my daughter, she's a lot, she's really joyful. And so I think I felt really in the depths and it was first time with my son. And whereas with my daughter, I think it's easier, like there's less anxiety,

definitely like less kind of depression. I think I definitely had that with my son, but I kind of, you know, and I didn't go medication route and I so encourage that for someone and maybe I should have at the time. But I think that what I tapped into with postpartum with my son in particular, there was like this more kind of like collective rage, which I know a lot of my friends kind of experience postpartum. Maybe it's like first baby more so, you know, I've only got, I only know through my experience and the limited experience that I have through speaking to others, but yeah, that definitely happened for me first time, second time, not so much. So yeah, it's a lot easier. But it's harder on the body with two,

like, I think that there's probably more anxiety within me, whereas there was more depression, first time anxiety, because you you know you don't sleep you got a toddler as well as a baby and then you know and then when you could kind of go back into work you're using a different part of your brain um and so I think that yeah like that ability to just like be in the moment when you then go back into the world I think it's quite complex so yeah the postpartum has been very, very different between the two. Yeah. That's fascinating. I also have a Scorpio COVID boy. Do you? Oh my gosh. He's very intense, very curious, very nonstop. And yeah, it's, I think some interesting babies might have come into the world in that in that little window I agree I agree

how has it been to re-engage your creative life coming out of this postpartum window you know I'm writing I'm writing a I've been working on oracles in the past couple of years um so that was I guess that was postpartum as well and I find that a lot easier um than going back into the books but I want to write books and I am writing a book at the moment but I'm really noticing the difference being a mum and trying to write because I'm I need to be on my own I love being on my own and that's kind of like quite hard to do you know and yeah when I've written books in the past it's been like I've eat sleep and do everything with the book you know whereas yeah so it's a bit of a different it's it's a bit different but you know I'm I'm looking back as well at stuff like I

wrote about like 80,000 words um in a book that actually didn't happen after having my son because I couldn't the world was changing I was changing and I was writing through it and the writing's amazing but I don't know what to do with it and so I'm kind of like picking bits and putting them in places and just being like oh my god like I feel like I've got such a backlog um but it's my process is not linear I've got plenty of friends who who um have a more I guess you'd say more masculine writing process so I wish mine was but it's really not it's very wild and kind of yeah I mean I'm a Virgo so I can bring it all in but um yeah I'm Scorpio rising as well. So yeah, the main part of the process is a bit wild. So yeah, it's kind of, it's, it's both. It's like, I feel there's a

real depth to like the pregnancy and birth and postpartum and being a mum has been incredible in I think integrating my teachings and there is lots of lots more metaphor and symbolism and I think depth to the writing but getting to the writing is harder so yeah I really hear you I'm on day 23 or 24 are you I'm in my crunchy zone of my cycle right now that's good editing time isn't it totally but in terms of my own creative process I actually went away with my friend for two nights recently and having that much alone time so good it's like so much started to pour through and now I've got this like I want it's like there's a really delicious meal that's waiting for me but I can never quite get to eat it because last night my dog woke me up at two o'clock um then my hubby was snoring and so I went upstairs to sleep in the

double bed in the room where our little guy sleeps and then he woke up so we were awake together for two hours of the night and I was just like this is not conducive to creativity I know I know so many of our people listening will relate because we we did a survey recently and we received lots of responses of people saying I need aloneness for my creativity but I can't get alone time like just like you said so I'd love to like ask you a little bit more because you are so creative you it keeps flowing through you what are you doing right now do you have any tips right now for people who are thinking that like if I could just get some open space I could create but maybe the open space isn't there yeah right so I think um I'd say the first thing is like use when you're going

through difficult times, like maybe you're getting triggered. I know the other day I got really triggered and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is going to take up more of my time and all of this. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to write through this. Like as in like instead of trying to process it in some other way through talking to someone or whatever I'm gonna channel what I need to hear so I think taking little opportunities like that that are gonna already like take your time I think it is helpful I think also um like yeah like one thing I'm doing at the moment is um which doesn't come naturally to me

is like prioritizing moving my body um and yeah so I know that's not creating but it's actually exhausting me so I sleep deeper when I do so I am when I do get the windows so yeah so I'm prioritizing 20 minutes a day. And we've actually, my husband and I have actually, we got, we don't have family around. We kind of need to build our village ourselves. And yeah, so we have done something that we've never done before where we've normally we'd have childcare cover when we're working and then go straight into, you know, so it's just work, family, work, family kind of thing. We work together as well. So we're

spending time together, just starting to do dates and all that. Oh my God, all the things you kind of need to make time to do. It's ridiculous. But what we have done is, which felt so decadent to us, we've got like an hour in between working and like not having any support where we've got an hour of support where we can go and just find some space. And I know that's not so much like creativity, but I find that if I've got that,

then there is more space for creativity when I have it. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not like this big list of stuff to do and so and even and it's basically just it's a lovely local um young woman in her 20s I spoke to my daughter and I'm like you need to call in your person oh yeah we had a had someone who my son called in, which was amazing during COVID. So, yeah, and she obviously wasn't able to help us like the whole time. But, yeah, someone told me that to talk to the child's soul to get them to call in their people.

And, yeah, and so that's been like a really big thing for us. And so then, you know, I've got that extra hour to use however I want and I might want to I find that I tend to create after like if I have space in my life so obviously deadlines help but like I might go for a walk for example when I walk writing comes so rather than being like I need this space to sit down and squeeze it out like yeah having creating the the open space even just it's just like half an hour a day or whatever and so for us the the really the only answer has been like to to literally pay to get that help and yeah it was it was hard for us but yeah, it's like a no brainer.

We're just like, oh my God, you know? Yeah, it has to happen. I have to be really ruthless about it too. Like I said, when we jumped on, I've got wet hair now because I said, no, so if you're not going to go and sit at your desk, you need to jump around for a bit. Like for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

Yeah, exactly. How good's that? And it just like frees me up. I feel more playful all that like premenstrual crunchiness gets to go somewhere you know into physical energy yeah yeah it's so true it's so true but yeah it is such a challenge isn't it the finding space Sharni often speaks about use the tension or like lean into the tension be with the tension that's a big part of the sort of art of working with the premenstrual phase isn't it yeah you're so right

and I think it's the same thing like with like having kids as well like what I've started to do with my son is um you know you kind of of notice what they're interested in, but also like where there's a crossover with what you're interested in. I mean, I'm sure we influence that. Like the two things me and my son like to do, which is my husband doesn't like to do these things. So it's just him and I, we love like watching movies. So like we rest really hard.

So like my husband hates it. So we'll just like snuggle up and watch a movie but then the other thing that he loves doing um is plant identification so we'll go on a walk and like forage some berries and be like what's this one what's this one and so it's not it's not the same as meditation but it's like it's different, you know, playing with cars on the floor. Like I, that doesn't fill me up at all. So I think finding those little things that, you know, and I think this is the thing that being a mum really taught me. I always thought that I was like really grounded and integrated with my spiritual practice.

And, you know, like living a solid life and aligned to my soul all of that has been like you know and I've been devoted to that for for a couple of decades almost um but I didn't realize until I had kids how like compartmentalized my life actually was when it came to spirituality even though it's like what I teach and yeah it was this thing of like even like I love doing altar work for example or have always done it love creating beauty um but it was like something I would go and do versus like now it's like we're out as a family oh let's build an altar let Let's pick up the little bits off the ground. Do you know, like, that's just like a silly little example, but I didn't realize how separate I kept my spirituality

until I had kids and didn't have the time to go off and do it. Like I did before, you know, you got to find the different ways and then it's like, oh, God, it's like, yeah, that's the feminine way. Like that's just as deep, you know. Like, I mean, there's all these things that people say about how breastfeeding is like, you know, I forget what it's called. A friend told me the other day there's a name for it of like it's like the highest type of meditation that you can have um do you know and like we don't realize that singing to a baby was chanting you know like we yeah it's like we think it's like this separate thing that we have to learn and

you know master or something and they're so vividly there and present in front of you like they are presence aren't they presence to the extent of they have no concern for anyone else so that you have to pour all of your attention to them yeah I sometimes look in his eyes I'm like right I'm here he like calls me fully like a bell ringing for a meditation boom you're right here it's so true and I think that also like what I noticed that I didn't expect is like you know I'd always seen the mother and child statue um and had many of them around my house um you know you just kind of collect these things without knowing that you're doing it so So it was definitely like something that was around, like great mother, that kind of energy. And then what I didn't realize was like just the level of love that children come in with

and actually how painful that can be to be around because it's like obviously it brings up everything that isn't that. I didn't expect that. I thought it was all just like, oh, it's cute. it brings up everything that isn't that I didn't I didn't expect that I thought it was all just like oh it's cute you know what I mean and oh I'm gonna love them but yeah the whole reparenting thing and the attachment thing and oh my god what a spiritual course that is yeah yeah yeah and there's no preparation for it you're just slam dunk no no I had no idea it makes me laugh how much we prepare for the birth and like when you think about it and it's like yeah it's a big deal and it's really important and then you get the birth that you get

right and then you have to raise your child and yeah it blew me into into a thousand pieces did it yeah and I'm still in that process of gathering it all yeah who am I what's going on who am I what's going on how was your birth I still haven't processed it you know like it's I think it's tough for a lot of people to find the time and to prioritize processing it it was the beautiful thing about it was I felt safe and loved every step of the way like I felt like the people who were caring for me were angels I had a c-section and the the woman that was doing this because she stroked my hair all the way through the process and she held my hand and she said you're doing well you soon do so well because it had been a long labor then it ended in

an emergency oh my overriding memory is of that oh and it was bumpy and wild and huge and there's still there's still a lot to process I think and I don't know how it was for you but the challenge was my hobby had to leave an hour after because of COVID that's really hard that's really hard that there was a break there and he had to come home by himself and he was home 36 hours just crying because he wanted to be with his his bubba you know yeah that is so horrible it's so many people went through that and it's just such a like you can't get that back you know yeah that is so horrible it's so many people went through that and it's just such a like you can't get that back you know like and I think it's so important that we talk about that that stuff because it's like yeah he did get to I was sort of recovering from the a few things

went wrong with the operation so I was recovering from it and so he had skin to skin for two hours with Artie at the beginning so I think that yeah yeah yeah cemented something and they are so close but yeah that there are those ruptures in that first beginning part thank you for reminding me of it because it needs tending to somewhere amidst all of this flurry of life yeah something that you shared a while back that I just wrote down because it felt really important was you were talking about working with like the rage or the premenstrual energy and you said I use that and you said I channel what I need to hear and I was wondering what that looks like for you like do you is there like a specific question you give yourself or yeah like I've always written

like this like I've I've never written I'm trying to think if that's true I like if I have it's like like 95% of what I write always is something I need to hear so it might be in the moment or or it could be something someone else needs to hear not from a I don't mean like I'm teaching this bit of information I mean more like like there's a my second book Rise Sister Rise the name came from a poem that I wrote which is actually my first book called Rise Sister Rise it's the last thing I wrote and I wrote that to so my friend had been like so courageous in her relationships and then you know it just didn't work and I was just devastated for her she was devastated I was just you know when those moments were and we've all been there ourselves as well which is why we can relate and I was just like oh my

god like what can I say to her and I started like writing out a text and then it actually started coming and so I don't know I don't think I actually sent it to her but it turned into something else. And yeah, so I've always written like that, even like, and I teach this with like people that I mentor who are like writing books as well. Like obviously if you work out what your overall, you know, what the premise of the book is, like why you're writing it, who you're writing it to, but who you're writing it to is really important.

And it doesn't mean that it's just one person. It helps if you have a person in mind, it might be like me when I was 18 or whatever age, but it could also be me at seven and five and 21 and da, da, da, da, da. And I find that when we write like that, it can be felt in the heart because you're actually writing to someone rather than at someone do you know what I mean that's so interesting to someone rather than at someone that's really beautiful I I mean I work in marketing really because I'm the marketing person for Red School and that's so true with everything we're putting out there in the world. If we can be in relationship with the people that we're wanting to serve while the creative

processes are happening, that's it. It was the only way I was able to step into the work I was doing writing to myself because otherwise I was just like, what do I have to say? Like, I don't know where to start, you know, I'm not because you have to start somewhere. And yeah. And so I, I, I remember with my first book, I got asked, I got asked like, as in from my guides, I was like, what is this book about? And it was, I got it very clearly. It's for lightworkers to help them find the courage to share their voice.

And I was so pissed off because I was like, but I'm scared to do it and I don't know how to and how can I do it? So I had no choice but to like, kind of like write it or receive it for myself yeah yeah I wanted to ask you about imposter syndrome because I want to ask everyone about imposter syndrome yeah yeah yeah because it's so pervasive and it sounds like when the imposter syndrome voice comes in you there's something in you that opens and lets like a different kind of depth come through yeah and obviously it's not like immediately every time like that's that's my process to process it um but yeah it's like there's probably some things

that happened before that what what happens before that I don't know I might get um upset or angry or you know like when I talk about it to my husband and then he's like I'm sick of talking about this now yeah my poor poor hubby's I'm forever going on about my creative challenges and he's a data scientist so like can we just look at the data there's a story in your book actually I've got it got it right here light is the new black when you were a creative director in San Francisco and you said you got the best career advice ever that we're all scared oh yeah anyone who's doing anything new doesn't know what they're doing so we just have to keep moving forwards yeah exactly I think when we reckon like I think change is the hardest thing for us to deal with and obviously there's some change that's harder than others but ultimately

like change is hard and you know I'm preaching to the choir here with talking about cycles it's like it's constant um we're never meant to stay the same we're not meant to be in full bloom and it's impossible yeah and so it's that classic thing of like you know in winter um things seem like they're dead and barren and they will never bloom again. But like beneath the surface of the soil, things have never been more fertile and alive and more active than ever. And so I think it's like reminding us that like actually to live a soul led life, to live a, like an aligned life, like a true intuitive life.

It's like, it takes courage and because it it requires that we that we um embrace change you know and that's not straightforward it's not easy and of course we're not going to be a master at something at the beginning like it's just of course not and we might be naturally good at some things. And if we're expecting ourselves to be like that, it's like the difference between the mystic and the machine or creating versus producing. You know, if you just try and feel safe all the time, you're not going to do anything that will light you up

and excite you you know okay I'm going to pause this conversation with Rebecca just for a moment to invite you to join us for a free online event we're hosting next week on September the 7th in this event Alexandra and Shani will hold you in a deliberate creative void, a pocket of menstrually inspired time outside of time to connect with your calling, to remember who you really are, what you really love, what you're really here to do. It's called Your Big Bold Thing. It's designed to be a visioning sanctuary for you to hear the voice of your calling. It's next week, Thursday the 7th of September and you can register at redschool.net forward slash big. That's redschool.net forward slash big. This event will also be a great way to get a taste of Your Creative Power, our brand new upcoming online course,

which is a deep dive into the creative cycle to unearth a wealth of insight, support, inspiration, meaning. You might like to think of it as creative cycle awareness. The course begins on September the 21st and you can save £100 if you join before September the 21st and you can save a hundred pounds if you join before September the 10th so you can find out more about the course at redschool.net forward slash creativity wow the difference between the mystic and the machine I'm curious to hear if your experience of your menstrual cycle how that's informed your capacity to be with with change and to to be with

the mystical and the mystery yeah okay well I'd say my I always had a lot of trouble with my cycle it's it's gotten much better particularly since I had babies actually which I know is a lot of trouble with my cycle. It's gotten much better, particularly since I had babies, actually, which I know is a common thing. But, yeah, since I was a teen, very painful periods, like keeled over. I've got a very high pain threshold and they were bad. And, yeah, but, yeah, so that was just I just kind of sucked it up basically for most of my life um and then yeah went into cycle work um which definitely eased it it never yeah I I think I'm kind of tapped into a lot of the collective feminine stuff.

And if that hadn't have been there, I wouldn't have delved into it all. So I think my cycle's definitely been a challenge. It's always been regular. So it's not like it's been like I don't have PCOS or anything like that. I'd say more endometriosis. I kind of, I didn't get the operation or anything, but it has definitely gotten way better since kids. But yeah, so it's definitely, I think, called me into the depths more than had I not had

a challenging cycle. Yeah. But I think also as I get older, I'm more comfortable, if I just think inner seasons even, like, rather than, like, the physical parts of the cycle. But I think I'm more comfortable actually in autumn and winter which is not what I was what I thought growing up you know like I yeah whereas actually I really like yeah my my true nature I think is autumn and winter

but I was yeah so I think my cycle has, has, has taught me that. And then also living in the Northern hemisphere, I'm from Australia originally is where I grew up born in the spring in September. And then over here, it's obviously autumn, um, fall if you're in America. Um, and yeah. And so I think that that that the external seasons have really taught me that too because they're different in Australia like it's not as extreme the seasons it's you know winter it does get cold because there's not good heating in winter but generally speaking it's pretty nice weather and yeah not winter doesn't get like dark like it does here you know it's really fascinating the way you say that your cycle called you in I feel like it's the same for so many people in our community for me it was infertility for many

years that just called me way in and I can see it was sort of what's the roomy I'm thinking of Leonard Cohen actually there's a crack in everything that's where the light gets in beautiful there's something about the cycle that it's in the homecoming that it's calling us into yeah we have to go through whatever dark forest is in our own psyches and in the collective psyche. And obviously, I'm sorry for the pain that you've experienced. And I can hear that it's worked you in some way and has deepened your creative process or your process of living your calling. Do you see that? How do you see the connection with the cycle in your calling do you do you see that how do you see the connection with the yeah with the cycle in your calling well I feel like now now that I know myself a lot more um like I I

really resonate with I mean astrology makes it easier but you know you don't have to say there's other ways of describing it but I really resonate with the Scorpio even more than the Virgo now um and yeah yeah and I'd say that yeah I definitely feel like I'm you know I'm what am I now 41 I'm almost 42 so I'm mean, I don't think this is midlife, but I know it's what people call it now, but now everyone's living older. So it's not really midlife. I don't know what we should call it, but you know what I'm talking about. I'm exactly the same age. Oh, right. So I totally know what you're talking about. I feel like 40 is a big moment. It does something. Yeah. Well, they say 36 to 42 is like this real, like the shifting,

a shifting window. And, yeah, I can feel me deepening into who I really am. Not that who I was before was not, you know, there's different phases that we go through. But I feel like I'm stepping more into myself, like I'm individuating a lot more and yeah. To be, to be continued. I'd love to hear more about that later in a few years. Yeah. And I think, I think with that has come like come like yeah just like you start to see the um

just the direction I think I think around this age um I've seen it happen to quite a lot of people like you kind of find you you have this opportunity as well to find like your thing do you know what I mean like yeah and I and I feel like I'm I'm starting to step more into yeah the depth of work that I'm here for and um I mean who knows maybe in 10 years I'll be like oh that was nothing you know and maybe we just always look back but menopause will come around and reshape us again yeah yeah but I but I just I sense that there is yeah there's there's definitely a deepening of potency yeah yeah I'd love to speak about the the idea of the void when it comes to the creative process because Shani was telling me that you were both at a Hay House mastermind I

think and you were speaking about you were giving a talk about something but you said that you'd just been through um a void moment in a creative process that you were in and yeah yeah and it really moved her yeah so I mean I feel like I went through about four years of the void um just hopefully coming out of it um but I think what she's referring to is um yeah I had this program um that was it was the big money maker in my business like as in it's it paid the bills um and I mean I suppose it's relevant to what I was just saying before it was it was right for where I was but it was just not feeling aligned and it required to bring it into congruence with me this big program I needed to update it a little bit but also I'm just like I like I'm a I'm a projector in human design and I just wasn't receiving the invitation um and yeah projectors

need to wait for the invitation and I just wasn't receiving it and every time I checked in I was just like it wasn't lighting me up but it it was like, but this is literally like how like I'm feeding my family kind of thing. So yeah, I, I just, but I kept on praying on it and it was just like, it's just like, there is more to come, but it's not that and so I gathered the courage up to take it off my website and just leave nothing and just be like oh shit like it was like the the big leap moment you know I think the equivalent for me previously would have been like quitting my job my day job and going into you know writing a book and trusting that that would happen and And, and yeah, and it was amazing though, because I think it was like within, within about four weeks. So I'd had this vision for

a mystery school, it's called the Inner Temple Mystery School for several years when I was doing my Kirtan training in London. So that was 2016. I, I had the vision for it, but it had never quite landed and I couldn't quite work out what the structure was. And like, I could have made it happen, but it wasn't like, it wasn't like I knew that if I did it, it would last, you know, five years and then it'd be gone versus like something that is like a proper body of work. And yeah, but I just couldn't land it. And that was really frustrating because I'm like, I am a very disciplined creative as well, but it just wasn't coming. So that was the void as well, because normally I can, you know, I worked as a copywriter

and creative director in advertising, like, you know, know like you like I've worked in um deadline-based businesses I work with publisher like I can produce if I need to um but I just wasn't able to really with this and anyway four weeks after um taking that away then the full plan came it just went like that and it was amazing and interestingly um when it came I had actually conceived um I was in Australia and we conceived um and yeah I got like it was the same time just all came came just so clear through and then we spent the next um basically nine months um building the the mystery school and then yeah literally nine months later in September which is my normal birthday we we launched it um and um and that's a nine month journey as well but interestingly once the structure was through,

and we'd done all the grounded work, I actually lost that baby. So it was about three months later, which was interesting, because and it felt kind of related, because it was like, having, I don't know, I don't know if the birthing energy of having that baby in me, I don't know if that baby was part of what I was receiving or something within me was open or something, or maybe it was just a coincidence, but yeah. And then interestingly, cause my husband worked on that with me. He's a very skilled like researcher. He's not a big reader but he's very good at like finding ancient texts and like I'll be like this is what I'm getting is this like can you help me back this up and he's very good at that so we wow what a great partner for you that's amazing it's really

good yep and um yeah and he he'd had his own like, awakening and call to do with nature as well, which is a big part of the Mystery School training. We work with nature guides and seeing the sacred that's here or all around us. Anyway, and so it was definitely like a co-creation with him and Amy, who works with me as well and um yeah and so it felt like we actually used that birthing energy to create the mystery school not so much in like like we probably did I tend to throw myself into my work if I'm having a difficult time because it fills me up and you know I find focus really helps me if I'm struggling with something um but it didn't feel like that it didn't feel like I was um avoiding the pain through doing it but it felt like I was we had this birthing energy from that baby that that didn't stay around so

that was interesting so that that's kind of like that's the part of the the fertile void that that didn't stay around so that was interesting so that that's kind of like that's the part of the the fertile void that that Shani probably doesn't know I don't think I shared that part of the story well thank you for sharing it with us and for bringing that little life into into our conversation and wow that's it's so beautiful it feels like we're speaking about like the necessity of consciously creating a void sometimes if things aren't flowing like I'm actually thinking about before we conceived something in me just said just you're gestating for everyone else because I was working with a lot of people one-to-one which I love but I was I was holding their work so deeply felt like I was

holding it even like in my body in my womb space and something in me just said you need to you need to empty everything out to make space and every morning I'd go for a walk and I'd envision this fluffy nest in my pelvis and just so lovely and who knows what I mean it was IV, so we know that there was a lot of science in there, but who knows what actually allowed that conception to happen. But I know that literally clearing my life out was a big part of that. But there we are, find ourselves back to the space question again. But there's always a way, like you're saying, of boldly taking the reins and going, do you know what? I am the creator of my life in union with the great mystery of everything around us.

And I can make the bold decision of letting go of this trapeze and just flying through the air for a while until I catch the next one. What holds you when you're in that uncertain place? Like what helps you not fall into anxiety? What holds you through that? I mean, I think the number one thing would be nature. As in, I think it's always helpful to kind of you know go out for a walk and like just notice the season and notice like I guess it's just impermanence but like I think yeah and like a big part of my practice which is really basically what the mystery school is about, is like connecting in with the consciousness of nature and receiving messages from nature. And who knows if it's

nature or our true nature, or we're just connecting in with our ever-changing nature through doing that. But I think that does. And I tend to write as a result of doing that you know so then that kind of comes back to writing to myself again there's there was something that really touched me in your book which well there's one page that just has massive letters follow your intuition especially when it doesn't make sense which I love because I just love paradox and nuance and like leaning into complexity and I thought okay cool I like this but how you know how do we do this and then you go on in the book to describe like a few different approaches to support you to follow your intuition even if it's not making sense which does it which is all connected to to the void and being with the mysteries we've been

talking about and you have this quote on page 108 which is about answering the ache can i read it yeah sure we each have within us an aching that is craving to be met it's not a physical ache and it isn't a mental one it's much deeper than either of those we came into this life with it and if it's not tended to it will be right there when we die the ache is your soul calling and no matter what you do to ignore it numb it out or die it down it will never go away it made me think of because I'm obsessed with the cycle we are here it made me think of the like the premenstrual change from the premenstruum to the to the bleed from the feeling of being with the churn of who am I and what am I here for to landing in the the softness for me my experience of menstruation is being very close to my calling

but yeah I'm I'm curious about this ache and how how it's informed you and how it can inform each of us well I think that you know I think it's a skill that we need to learn um if we choose to not just numb the ache out you know I think a lot of us push it down um and yeah but in my experience generally when we acknowledge what's actually there it has medicine for us so like if for example um like recently I've been creating a lot around like transmuting anger and rage you know and the difference between I think the motherhood taught me this like the archetype of mother of like how it's so easy to create or destruct like when you feel this like big energy within you I'm not even just talking about mother as in like of a child it's like that mother goddess energy you can either with that rage for example you can either use it to tear something down destructively or yeah shake it but then create something new um and so i think that

yeah at first it's like there is this uncomfortableness which and I love that cycle analogy you just gave because so so what it's like where it's like uh and then there's like a relief on the other side it's like that feeling you get when you when you cry like you don't want to cry but then right after there is like this and it's like actually is there any better feeling than that you know yeah yeah and is that us doing this tango with the universe where there's something that life wants us to see and in this tightness and the resistance and then we there is a surrender in that crying there is a surrender into the motherhood and yeah and I think it's like the the the complex difference between beauty and perfection so and because I think we we tend

to see beauty as perfection but it's actually not and like um I wrote something the other day around, um, and I won't say it as, as well as I write it, but it was around like, you know, life is beautiful. Birth is beautiful. Like aging is beautiful. Like everything, like the beauty, but all the things that are actually beautiful are impermanent, like truly beautiful, you know, because it's like harmony and purpose that like that's really what beauty is and yeah the rose is beautiful in all of its stages but it's especially beautiful in the bloom but it's because it's not going to be there forever like it's not going to be like that's what makes it so beautiful you know and I think that's the that's the the thing that kind of like like um i think the word like has just kind of possessed the feminine um and the masculine but like women

um this striving for this perfection you know and then that's the aging thing that's the cycle thing like that's just oh let's be in this part of do you know yes so yeah i think it's really complex that relationship of like what is beauty actually you know it feels like something that we could all sit and be with for a long time what is beauty and what is perfection and and it's so true if we could look at the most beautiful sunset forever it wouldn't be beautiful anymore is the fact that the sun is going down right so how does that translate into our creative lives just for our final piece here well I guess like the I think the biggest invitation is as a creative in whichever way you're creating whether it's writing or just

making your house a home whatever it is like embracing the difficulty or the uncomfortable or the imperfection to create beauty with it like how how can you create beauty in the things that maybe we might not see as perfect because because that's really where the connection is like if you're just writing a perfect thing or painting a perfect picture we've all seen it like oh that's a perfect picture that's very beautiful like it's but it's just pretty it's not it doesn't touch us it doesn't move us it doesn't touch us exactly so how can you embrace the imperfection of the difficulty of what you're going through or the extremes of the polarity or the I don't know challenge that someone in your life is going through to create beauty rather than perfection maybe that's the invitation and so blessedly our cycles are teaching us that all the time and the cycle of nature like just there just showing us all day it's so annoying just to close how could people connect with you if they'd like

to hear more about you and oh sure yeah just head over to rebeccacampbell.me um that's my website or I'm on all the socials I think it's like rebeccacampbell underscore author on most um but yeah you'll find me all the places um I've also got a podcast called returning with Rebecca Campbell that's that might be a nice way too I've been listening to it it's lovely I recommend it oh thank you thank you I feel really tender tenderized from this conversation yeah me too thank you so much thank you Sophie bye see ya oh I enjoyed that conversation so much I know I say that all the time but there was something about that rapport with Rebecca that was really fun and I love how she can dance between the deep mystical absolutely unknown wildness of the creative process and then ping up to find these very practical useful tips so I know I'm taking a

lot away with me and I hope you are too. So just before we wrap up I want to invite you again to join us for our free event happening next week, Your Big Bold Thing. It's happening on Thursday, 7th of September. It's really designed to support you to drop your bundle, for a short while at least, so that you can be with your visions. It can be so hard to do this in the midst of the flurry of our lives and we really want to hold you in a protective

circle with no inner critics allowed i.e there's going to be no pressure no second guessing yourself no shooting on yourself no censoring we're going to support you to hold that kind of generative space so that you can carve out some soulful time to enter into really a sacred sanctuary for dreaming and listening to your calling. Knowing that this kind of visioning is, it really holds metaphorical rocket fuel for whatever you're creating in your life. And I personally can't wait to be held in this process. And my plan is to vision into my garden which is coming on beautifully including the water feature which I've been talking about in our podcast recently and is coming along quite nicely so more about that soon. So yes if you'd like to join us it's redschool.net forward slash

big redschool.net forward slash big and that's it for today thank you for being part of the community gathered around this work and this podcast it's wonderful to be in this conversation with you as always I love hearing from you please write to me at sophie at redschool.net if you have any ideas for the podcast anyone that you'd love me to talk to any themes that you'd love us to explore and we'll be be back next week. So until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.