The Menstruality Podcast - 109. Signs that You’re Healing In Menopause (Dr Arianna Scholes-Douglas)

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

My guest today is one of many people who felt like she was losing her mind as she entered menopause. Dr. Arianna Sholes-Douglas is an integrative healthcare practitioner and visionary in the field of women’s health. She has practiced medicine for three decades and is the author of  The Menopause Myth: What Your Mother, Doctor, and Friends Haven’t Told You about Life after 35The menopause was intense for her, and inspired her to reassess everything in her life, including her long career in medicine, eventually making the decision to transform her work life and start a practice supporting women in menopause with an integrative, holistic approach.In our conversation:- We walk through Dr Arianna's 'signs you’re healing in menopause' and how they showed up for her personally, including the patterns that she broke through menopause, how to find our way to self forgiveness, and how to set boundaries.- How our brain chemistry changes in menopause and how this is reflected in the shift from people pleasing to ‘what do I need?’.- Dr Arianna's 'Jewels for the Journey' and the sacred role of menopause in our lives. ---Join us for a free webinar on October 18th: How Menopause Awakens Your Power - www.redschoolmenopause.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, thank you for listening today. Welcome back to the Menstruality Podcast. We're in the middle of our 13 days of menopause power at Red School, where I'm talking with amazing guests about the powers that menopause is awakening or has awakened in them over on

Instagram. It's in the run-up to World Menopause Day on October the 18th when Red School co-founders Alexandra and Sharni will be hosting a webinar called How Menopause Awakens Your Power. We'd love to have you with us. You can register at redschoolmenopause.com and in the meantime head over to Instagram to be with me as I have these amazing conversations. And my guest here today is one of many people who felt like she was losing her mind as she entered menopause. Dr Arianna Scholz-Douglas is an integrative healthcare practitioner and a visionary in the field of women's health she's practiced medicine for over three decades and she's the author of the menopause myth what your mother doctor and friends haven't told you about life after 35

so her menopause process was intense for her it inspired her to reassess everything in her life including her long career in medicine and eventually making the decision to transform her work life and start a practice supporting women in menopause with an integrative and holistic approach. So we walk through her brilliant signs that you're healing in menopause and how they showed up for Dr. Ariana, including the patterns that she personally broke through in menopause, how to work with the regret that can arise in this time of life, find our way to self-forgiveness and importantly, how to set boundaries. It's a really honest and transparent exploration. I hope it inspires and uplifts you today, especially if you're in the

midst of what Alexandra calls the great houseclean of menopause, or that it helps you to prepare if, like me, you're still in your menstrual cycling years. I particularly love the chat about how our brain chemistry changes in menopause and how this is reflected in the shift from people-pleasing pleasing to asking what do I really need. So let's get started with Dr. Ariana. So Dr. Ariana, thank you so much for making the time for this today. I know you've got a lot going on in your world and I really, really appreciate having this opportunity to talk to you about so many different things, your personal menopause journey and some of the great things you're teaching and the way you're reimagining menopause really

moved us when we encountered your work, us being me and Alexandra and Sharni, who are the co-founders of Red School. And I just wanted to start by asking you about your personal menopause journey, if that's okay. And just to hear a bit about where you are now. And yeah, maybe maybe a kind of a couple of the challenges that you faced along the way. There are more than a couple so first of all thank you for having me um and yeah my journey it's been interesting because I literally just got back from the menopause society meeting in Philadelphia and something struck me this time listening to all the symptoms of menopause I'm I'm 57 and technically I mean I mean, I started having perimenopausal symptoms at 37, I think between 37 and 38. And I was clueless. And that really

prompted me to just do a super deep dive into what was really going on. But it wasn't until years later that I really started to question. And it really wasn't until this past weekend. I was like, wow, like I really, I had a really kind of tumultuous time and struggle. My first issue was infertility, but that didn't quite register with me that that was the beginning of my journey. I just thought, okay, I'm just, I'm 37 and I have infertility, but everything really started to change. But I was having hot flashes at night, you know, definitely in my late thirties. And I, again, never registered with me. But what I, what I really realized now, especially looking at what happens to women in the workplace, the cognition issues, the brain fog, the sleep disturbances, the irritability,

I just realized I was a hot mess. And I was recalling instances where I was like, that was menopause, where things that I had done routinely that I just could not grasp. And this is what, at the Menopause Society, I heard someone else say it, and it just really resonated. Like, that was me. I forgot.

But I thought for a moment I was getting early Alzheimer's because I literally, just the things that I couldn't recall were scary. So that was what really pushed me into really starting to figure out what was going on. And I finally, you know, started to realize what was happening probably, though it was good five years in before I literally was like, oh, okay, this is what's happening. And then that's when the light bulb came on in my early 40s. But I left corporate medicine. I really just couldn't tolerate so many things. And when I think about, you know, women leaving the workplace and I had everything.

I had every symptom, like just about everything on the list. I had it all. So, yeah, that was my journey. And it wasn't easy. And it took a long time to really start to get my footing and figure out, okay, I am okay. I'm not losing my mind. I don't have Alzheimer's. I'm not, you know, suddenly stupid, and just don't know how to function. I just, you know, suddenly stupid and just don't know how to function. I just, you know, the estrogen, the replacement, the therapy for me was critical. It was everything. It changed my life and helped me just get back to being closer to my baseline. But even 20 years out now, I'm just like, wow, I still have symptoms.

I still have things that I didn't have before, like anxiety. I feel like I have more anxiety now than I did before I went into this phase. This is continuum and you're just constantly trying to just recalibrate and figure out, what part is this? Is it you? Normal aging aging what part is menopause and you know all the things that you can do to support yourself and make it better still I'm still going through it yes you I was reading about your work and you've been working in the field of women's health for a long long time 20 years it said on your website so So I was curious about this, because I saw that you've had many senior roles at medical centers taught in these prestigious institutions and won many

awards along the way. And I was curious to hear, so it sounds like there was a breaking point where you said, No, I'm not going to be part of this culture anymore. I'm going to do something different. Was that a menopause moment? Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, the good part of menopause is that it kind of forces you to reevaluate yourself and forces you to think about your priorities and your values and, you know, what's next, what it is you're really happy about, what you're not happy about. And I had, and actually I've been in practice now 30 years. So I guess I need to update my website because I practice high risk OB or maternal fetal medicine for the first 20. And it's only been the last 10 years that I've just left that field and went just pretty much into the menopause work. And part of why I left corporate medicine was just besides the fact that I was going through, and I think I was just irritable

and just sick of people and I kind of hated everybody. But I also, you know, I just really took a look at my values and I was looking at what I was doing. And I ultimately studied at the University of Arizona, the Integrative Medicine Fellowship. And I just felt like that was so much more in alignment with how I really thought about treating patients. And maternal fetal medicine is very, you know, just like a lot of parts of medicine. It's just very, there's protocols. And then when in doubt, you know, just like a lot of parts of medicine, it's just very, there's protocols. And, and then when, when in doubt, you know, C-section. So it's, it doesn't lend itself to treating the patient holistically. And I found myself being this outlier all the time in the group of doctors. I looked like the weirdo, but when I went and did the integrative medicine

fellowship, it was like, oh, okay, these are my people. I felt like I had finally found my tribe. And it was like, wow, I can't believe I've been practicing 20 years and this is where I belong. This is the culture and the mindset and the approach to patient care that just makes sense. This as you get older and you just start to accept like this is no this is how I feel about this is what I think I know it's I know that it's valid and then this is that's what I'm going to ultimately pursue one of the things I most appreciate about your work is how there aren't many people that are doing this that are really mapping out the deep psychological, emotional and spiritual levels of menopause and what is going on in our in our psyches and bodies and souls through this initiatory time. And I want us to get into that in a moment. But

just before we do, when we speak of reevaluating things, I saw this article on your website that you wrote for Maria Shriver. And it was entitled, I'm a doctor. And the only way I knew I was in menopause was because I wanted to kill my husband. Absolutely. It was definitely one of those aha moments for me where I realized that, you know, as husbands are, they can be great and they can be annoying, but he really hadn't done anything outside of his normal, you know, little things. And, you know, the fact that I, it really made me stop in my tracks because I really did feel like I wanted to poison him.

Like I wanted to kill him. And I was very serious. And then it just kind of made me go, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm not thinking rationally here. Yeah. So it was very real. I said, I want to kill my husband and eat my kids. Like they were all in this house driving me absolutely nuts.

And I was beside myself. So yeah. I want to kill my husband and eat my kids. That's such a great quote. I know a lot of our listeners will be nodding and relating to this. Yeah, I'd love to speak about how you're reimagining menopause and you're doing such great work on Instagram and this is one of the things that we've been following you for a while thank you I'll put a link in our show notes such great educational work and you had one post that

started one positive thing I've learned during menopause is and then people shared their examples of what they've experienced and you said with the understanding of my body has come acceptance power and more pleasure than ever before and I'd love to hear about that experience for you like your journey with your body through this process yeah I think um probably at this point for, I'm probably in the best shape. But within the last few years, I've probably been in the best shape that I've been in. I push my body in ways that I didn't think I did two years ago. I did a physique contest, which it kind of been on my it it was kind of on my bucket list, but not really, because I really didn't think I could ever do it. But once I did it, even though of course I wasn't,

you know, the star of the show and I didn't win, but I placed and I got up on stage half naked and literally turned around and, you know, you stick your behind out and you do all the things that you do. And I was like, okay, I can do this. And I don't want to do it again. It was, but it was just a moment of me owning, owning my, my beauty, my power and all my imperfections and, and just being okay, getting up in front of a lot of people. But just pushing myself, it was great to accomplish that goal of getting at least close enough to feel good about it. And also really just looking at myself differently. This is partly why I just shaved my head.

I mean, it really wasn't on purpose. I had alopecia and issues with hair just from autoimmune stuff for years. So I was wearing a wig and, you know, everybody's like, oh, you're so beautiful. And I was like, yeah, that's great. You can get it too on Amazon Amazon but I didn't really own it and it didn't really it wasn't me and so one day actually it was of course in the middle of COVID and I just you know I took the wig off and I shaved my head and I was just like I just want to see what I look like with a shaved head and I was like huh and was like, I'm never going to go out like this. But then my daughter walked in and they said, wow, that looks great, mom. You should rock it. And I was like, really? And if you know my daughter, Mo, they are very,

they can be very direct. Let's put it that way, and how they feel about what you're doing, what you're wearing, what you look like. So the fact that they gave me that validation really meant a lot. And then I just kind of tested theory and went out. And so I just started really embracing myself and, and having that confidence and boldness around it. And it's been interesting because now people stop me. They tell me how beautiful I am. It actually makes me very uncomfortable. So I'm still working on accepting that, you know, and, and receiving it.

I'm that person. I'm just like, I just like to dive in I just dive into whatever makes me uncomfortable I don't know I don't know really any other way to do it so yeah I don't know if that answers all of it but that's kind of been my journey and I'm still trying to figure it out congratulations on the physique competition that's absolutely amazing I'm so inspired by that story thank you um there were a couple of other responses on that post that I wanted to call out because I thought they were really interesting I mean the first one someone said in response to um what's one of the positive things you've learned during menopause is how to love myself for who I am, which I just hear time and time again

from the postmenopausal women and people that I interview that it's this process of homecoming eventually. It is. It can be. I think if you allow it. I really love the work of, and I'm having a moment here,

but she wrote The Female Brain and her newest book, it's called The Upgrade. Luanne Bresentin. Thank you. And I think her work is outstanding, especially her latest book, because she just really talks about how this really is a period of upgrade and how we're not like shackled as much by the hormones that are just kind of messing with our head all the time. And, but also just how our brain chemistry really does change and how estrogen lowers our brain chemistry changes. And we go from these nurturing kind of women, people to, to me, it's like a veil just comes away and you just start to see the world more clearly and not through this lens of people pleasing and nurturing and,

you know, just being that person, but also like, what about me? What about what I need? What about what I want? What about what I like? And not in a selfish way, but I think it's fair to say for most women, we don't live our lives selfishly. We are caregivers. We're givers in every area. And at some point you just, you get tired and you start to realize like, okay, I did all of this, but who's, who's taking care of me, who's loving me. And, you know, hopefully you have those people in your life, but at the end of the day, it has to be you because you realize that if it's not me, it may not be anybody else. So I better take care of me. so it really is about that homecoming of not just about how you look but how you feel about yourself and love yourself and and then have grace for yourself

and and it can be scary and hard but it also can be very rewarding and just a beautiful transition it was like one of the core ways that you hold this time is as a time of healing that there are multiple levels of healing going on through this process and you shared a post this might be in your book, about the signs that you're healing in midlife. Yeah, I wondered if we could go through some of these because this is what I mean about the way you break down the process and provide maps for the process is so practical and helpful. So you said your transition will involve far more than your physical symptoms along the journey you should be placing a great deal of emphasis on your emotional spiritual and mental health as well which takes a ton of self-advocacy doesn't it because the world isn't going to be doing that for us yet we're going to change it i imagine at the menopause society um there was a lot of talk of like okay how are we going to change change things but while it changes and while we're all fighting to change it,

you named some signs that you're healing. So breaking old patterns, forgiving yourself, managing emotions, accepting support, validating yourself and setting and maintaining boundaries. So I wanted to ask you a couple of questions about some of these firstly I'm putting you on the spot here oh it's okay with the breaking old patterns can you share a pattern that you know that you've broken through the process well probably since you'll never hear this uh you know I'll be honest I had a um honest. I had this relationship before I was married. And it was actually my first love. It was the first person who really I thought loved me anyway. I guess he did.

But the point being is that we went away to college and broke up. But I never really got that closure in my head. And I realized with a lot of my past relationships, I really, like I hadn't quite closed them until there was always this open thing. Oh, if that person showed up, like, how feel and would I have been in my life and it was almost it was illogical in a lot of ways but it was like I was still holding on to the this idea that I I needed them to validate me I needed them to come back and say either I'm sorry or I really do still love you or whatever I needed. And now I'm just like, oh my God, like, why were you even thinking about this person after all of that time,

they've never done anything to demonstrate that they were even, first of all, thinking of you that way. And secondly, that they didn't even deserve that much time and attention from you. And so just applying that to not just, you know, old boyfriends, but just to people in general, like who really deserves my time, my attention, my love, my, all the things that I have to give. And what have they done to, to demonstrate that? Like, not just what I think like not what some voice in my head is telling me but what's what am I really seeing for me breaking that pattern of just assuming that certain relationships because they were there that that meant something

as opposed to the people really demonstrating it right does that make sense so much so much I really appreciate you sharing that I can imagine people listening have their own version of that I know I do you know there are people who I give so much thought time to and I'm like dude they deserve that not even and then I have these great people in front of me that I could be pouring that energy into yeah yes yeah again it's not just a that kind of relationship even with friendships now it's just like there's certain people that have just been in my life they're they're kind of there by default you know just because whatever family friends or because and it's like do I really want to spend time with them? Like, do I really like them? Are they, are we really aligned in any way? And we really aren't. And I just don't

want to pretend anymore. Like I just, I don't want to be rude, but it's like, I don't really want to talk to you. Like, I just don't want to, I don't know how to do that. I'm still working on it, but it's, I just don't want to spend time pretending that I want to be in relationships or with people or talking to people that I really don't want to the truth yes my truth anyway yes I feel it I feel the power in what you're saying and the discernment this discernment and real valuing of yourself which is boy do we need more women who really value themselves in our world especially right now yeah yeah we do um it's hard it's hard to watch a woman not value herself and it's hard because I see it almost every day. And I'm not where I feel like I'm exactly where I want to be.

It's a process. It's a continuum. But as I get further along and I see other people who haven't quite gotten it, that light bulb hasn't come on or it's hard because you can't really get through. It's like, I don't know what has to happen, but I know I've had patients that I've watched be in very toxic relationships for years. And I just shake my head like, oh God, when is she going to get rid of this guy? Or finally one day they come in and they do it.

And I'm like, oh, hallelujah. I don't know what happened. And, you know, you just have to get there on your own. You've got to go at your own pace and figure it out. But I hope that as women go through this process, I'm careful that they just kind of wake up to, you know, taking care of themselves first and foremost. Yeah, yeah. The second sign that you're healing forgiving yourself I can imagine that there are people listening I'm not in menopause

but I have my own struggle with this like making peace with the past you know I hear from people in our community women in our community that it's just this great reckoning that happens like you said earlier this re-evaluation of of yourself what would you say to someone who is dealing with a lot of regret or finding it hard to forgive themselves for what's happened in the past through this process? Well, I guess I would, what I would, you know, try to say to myself, which is, you know, I think about this now as an empty nester and my kids leaving the house and as I'm launching them and, you know, that launch isn't going exactly as planned, you know, and I don't know if it's a need for forgiveness, but it's really more of, you know, I asked myself, well, you know, and I don't know if it's a need for forgiveness, but it's

really more of, you know, I asked myself, well, should I, you know, could I have stayed home more? What could I have done? Like, how could I have done this differently? And just all the things, but it's like, you know, at the end of the day, you just have to realize, you know, I did the best I could with what information I had and all of the mental, physical, spiritual, whatever tools I had that I just did my best. And that's all we can do is just do our best where we are. And, you know, I think for me, I just had to be like, you know, maybe I'm sure there's something I didn't get right. I'm sure there's some things I could do, but I'm just doing the best I can with where I am. And some days, you know, that looks really good.

And some days, probably not. But I can't do any better than that. Just we do our best. I think the average person just does whatever they can. And, you know, sometimes you're just not in a good place. And you have to forgive yourself. Instead of, I guess, thinking about what you didn't do, it's just really switching that to gratitude to, okay, I'm not in that space anymore. And oh, I finally woke up. I'm finally not that person or I finally realized

where I you know I could have done this better and that's all we can do I feel a lot of relief listening to you say that and I feel you know what I'm what I feel like I'm seeing is you taking your own side and moving on to one of your next signs that you're healing you're validating yourself and your experience I loved something that you said about this you said the pain of menopause is the resistance of coming into your own and growing into your own life yes my image is just this woman kicking and screaming and she doesn't want to get older and she doesn't want the wrinkles and she doesn't want all the things that the wisdom of women as we age. I mean, that's the most powerful psyche on the planet. There isn't anything, in my opinion, that's stronger or wiser or more observant than that.

When I look at older women and their wisdom. I'm just going to pause our conversation with Dr. Ariana for a moment to invite you to join us on World Menopause Day on October the 18th for our webinar, How Menopause Awakens Your Power, hosted by Red School's co-founders, Alexandra and Sharni. So this webinar is for you if you're in your final cycle years, or perhaps you've been told that you're in perimenopause. If you're sensing menopause on the horizon, if you're curious to learn more about menopause so that you can support your loved ones and especially if you're navigating the wild territory of the menopause transition and are longing for some affirmation

and encouragement and support along the way. It's also for you if you're living your post-menopause life and are looking to make sense of your menopause experience or if you're a professional who works with people going through menopause. So it's designed to be a very nourishing event a kind of sanctuary where we can drop in deeply together you'll hear about why we so deeply need to rewrite the story of menopause you'll be guided through a really beautiful embodied process to meet your post-menopause self and most of all you'll be supported to create a real diligence of listening and care within you and it also serves as an introduction to our upcoming menopause the great awakener online course which is starting on november the 3rd so if you're

interested in joining us for that please come along to the webinar to get a taste of what the course can offer you so the webinar is at 9am London time on Wednesday, October 18th, but we'll send you a recording if that's not a great time for you. And you can register at redschoolmenopause.com. I'm just with you, like dreaming of a world where the people who are leading the organizations and the countries are post-menopausal women I mean I watched Barbie last night and I there's a lot to say about Barbie you know good and bad and everything but you know they had the whole senate the whole governing body was female and you know they were young but I mean

imagine if it was just a whole yeah I mean think about it I get shivers to think what could be possible and this this will probably sound um maybe it sounds sexist but because it's not the women it's not the women the younger women it's it's not them because as Luann Breslin talks about in her work those are the women and not everybody and I'm not saying that younger women can't rule the world I'm not saying any of that but what I'm saying is that when we're younger we're just so much more influenced by our hormones and we don't have that wisdom. And it's just, it's just different. And once you get on the other side of that, it's just, it's hard to explain to, you know, a woman who's going through it. I try to explain that, you know, to my daughter with, you know, PMS and stuff like that.

It's like, you got to really, like, you need to be aware of where you are in your cycle before you make decisions. Like you like I had to like if it was if I knew I was like within 10 days of my cycle, I might still be impulsive and do something. But I would at least go into it being like, girl, you know, you're crazy right now. You probably shouldn't do that. But I would at least go into it with a certain amount of preparation and understanding. But now, you know, I have that wisdom. I have that clarity, ability to look back. And I'm not, you know, just constantly going back and forth with, you know, all of the tumultuous emotions. And so for me, you know, I was definitely impacted. Even at a young age, I had severe PMS. And I haven't seen any studies on this. I keep saying I need to look it up. But just looking at the correlation of women who report severe PMS symptoms, and what their menopause journey looks like. And if that's any indication of what it's going to look like but there's just

it's so multifactorial still dreaming of the the whole senate being post-menopausal women yeah i'm gonna go see barbie i haven't i haven't seen it yet but i hear i need to see it so i'm gonna take the time that's what i heard i'd be curious to hear the response of our listeners there's good and bad and everything in between I think I mean one thing I appreciated was great there's a rip there's there are real feminist conversations happening on the big screen and I appreciated that yeah it made me laugh too especially Ken and his his songs when you see it you'll see what I mean there was one final um sign that you're healing in midlife

that I just hear as a theme coming up again and again in all our conversations about menopause which is setting and maintaining boundaries huge I mean it's been a theme in our conversation you know how do we actually take a stand for ourselves in a world that isn't remotely interested in supporting that most of the time at the moment and you said actually about your jewels for the journey that are a key part of the your book the menopause myth what your mother doctor and friends haven't told you about life after 35 and you said that you you use these jewels to help you establish a solid self-care discipline, even in times of exhaustion, and they help you to get in a space of joy,

giving you a roadmap to help to practice boundaries. Yes. I'd love to hear about that. Yeah. So this is kind of two separate questions for me, but in terms of the boundaries, I think, yes, that goes along with the changes in our brain chemistry and, and just feeling like you have the power in your voice and that you're like your voice matters and it can be simple boundaries. The example that comes to mind now is my relationship with my husband.

And we have a great relationship. We'll be married 25 years next year. And, you know, we've definitely had our ups and downs. But what I'm noticing is in a healthy way. I mean, if he does something or says something, things in the past where I just kind of hear it and sulk or be upset. Now I'm like, well, what exactly did you mean by that? Like, do you realize when you said that, that this is really how that's coming across to me? Like, I'm just much more vocal about, you know, did you really want to say that that way?

Or do you realize that, you know, when you do that, that's kind of belittling what I'm feeling. And it's been interesting, you know, some, I think that's new for him too. So we can't discount that the, you know, the men in our lives or the, whoever our relationship is with, when we change, you know, they have to adapt. Yes. It can be a little challenging and it's hard because you really have to kind of stick in there because you will get resistance because people aren't used to you setting a boundary or letting them know, oh, this is how what you said came across to me. And so it can be not so fun and And it can lead to some, some uncomfortable conversation, but it, you know, it kind of has to happen because that again goes back to that, the pain.

It's like when you just let all that stuff sit inside and you don't say anything and you just feel like you just keep getting stepped on or, or you're not expressing your voice, then it's, it's just, it's not good for you. Like I can't speak to all of the, I'm sure it does something to all your chakras and your whatever, but I just know it's not good, right? But the jewels for the journey, what's your 10 of them it's gratitude acceptance patience purity prayer vision silence service love and the discipline really to go back and keep doing it those are really more meant for for me just

going through my challenging times and not just a child I mean just life in general like when things are good they still apply but when things difficult, being able to stop and first and foremost, just have gratitude for even. And, you know, I was just in my lowest, lowest of places, and I just could not see anything positive. And finally, it just kind of was spoken to me that, you know, you're not going to get anything you want, or this isn't going to go well until you're grateful for where you are and where you are on this journey. And I resisted that for a while. But when I finally just started to say, okay, even when I didn't mean it, I just said, okay, thank you for this experience. And I'm already grateful for all the things I'm going to learn. Like I just had to just keep saying it to myself,

even though I didn't believe it. And then when things started shifting and I could see where it was shifting and it was like, oh, okay. And so just using them just helps me to get back to a good place when I just go down that rabbit hole of, you know, doom and despair and why me and what, you know, and then you forget that, oh, you know what, you're so blessed, like you have so much. And yes, you don't have this one thing over here that you want. But that doesn't discount, you know, the other 95% of your life that of things that you do have. And so just shifting your focus and shifting the energy so that you can receive the blessings and receive what it is that you, you know, that your heart desires, but you can't do that when you're in a space of

just being mad at God and mad at the world and just irritated that you don't have what you want right yep yeah I'm nodding because I had my own four years of that and god did I resist that so strongly anyone that told me you need to let it go you need to be grateful I would just rage either inside or at them we could have a whole conversation about infertility that is a whole nother conversation I would actually love to talk about that with you um but yeah so wow that's amazing that there were there were jewels from that journey that then served you through the menopause journey and now you are using them to serve others through the process it's a beautiful legacy of that difficult time wow yeah they say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and so I'm definitely stronger

yeah look at you and your physique strong in every way I would love to hear what powers you feel that this healing journey, this reevaluation process of menopause, what you feel it is awakening, has awakened in you, what powers? Hmm. Powers. I would say maybe just the power of boldness and just not being afraid of what people are going to say about it or even necessarily failure although I don't know if I'm I don't know if I'm quite there yet but the power I guess it's more of a freedom once you're free then you're just not encumbered by so many other things, right? And so that just kind of innately gives you power because you're, you know, we lose our power when we're

worried about, you know, what other people are thinking or how we look or, and not, I mean, again, I'm not saying that we should not care about any of these things, but I think once we really get grounded and feel just comfortable in your own skin and, and all of those things, and, and you just, you have enough time and time behind you and wisdom to just know better. You just know, it's like, if somebody says something, you know, maybe 20 years ago, they'd say it. And I'd be like, really? Is that? And then now I'm like, no, no, that's just not, no. I don't have to say it to them, but I know that that's a no. And just being able to realize that, you know, everybody has their own opinion. Everybody

is going to think a certain way. And it's like, I can't manage all of that. I can't manage all that out there. So all I can do is manage me and do my best and, you know, and I'm sure there'll be some, you know, missteps along the way. But I think if you, you know, walk with integrity and you're, you're doing your best, you know, at the end of the day, that's all I can do. I'm doing my best with the skills I have right now. And if it's not good enough, oh, well, it's just I can't do anymore for you. If you don't like it, you don't want it, oh, well, go somewhere else or do something else.

It's OK. It's not personal. I don't take it personal um but i just the power is just in knowing who you are and and and um just being okay with it just being okay because everybody gets to be everybody gets to be who they want to be right so we don't need to bend ourselves to try to get more people to either like us or agree or any of that. Because at the end of the day, it's like, when you really think about it, it's like, I was just scrolling through Instagram the other day, and I just feel like people were talking. And some of the things they were saying, I was like, that just sounds like nonsense to me.

I just don't even know. But I thought to myself, that person really believes things they were saying, I was like, that just sounds like nonsense to me. Like, I just don't even know. But I thought to myself, that person really believes what they're saying. And at the end of the day, we all, like, who gets, I don't get to decide, like, that that's nonsense. Right? In your world, that makes perfect sense. Right? And probably there's 50 million other people that will agree with that. I, it doesn't make sense to me. Like what you're saying is illogical,

but I, you know, who, who gets to decide what that truth is. So that power is just knowing that my truth is my truth and I don't need to bend it or make it acceptable to anybody else because it's my truth just like your truth is yours and I'm not you know good for you do you Sophie thank you I've taken a lot of permission from you yes I'm really appreciating it yeah it feels like the power of really radical acceptance yeah radical acceptance of yourself and of everyone else and of everything that's happening and like that acceptance it feels like it's backed up by a really big trust in the greater thing that's that's holding it all that's what I'm sort of hearing around and underneath what you're saying yeah I guess I guess in the end, you have to trust yourself. And

you can't really do that if, you know, you don't take that time with yourself. And just, you know, when people say love yourself, it's kind of like, what does that mean? Like, you know, I've heard that since I was a kid, like, you gotta love yourself first. And, but I think that's hard for people to love themselves. And I am okay just the way I am. And like everything in the end, it's all going to be okay. And again, it's easy to say when the sky's not falling and the house isn't on fire. But even when it is, you just have to be like, okay, like, even now, I'm struggling with, you know, some themes of just trying to launch these kids and watching, it's like, oh, that, that doesn't look good. Like, I don't, you know, I don't want to see

how that sausage gets made. So go over there. And then let me know when you're done. I can't, I just can't even participate in that. But at the same time, you know, as your children, you're just like, you want the best for them. But recognizing these are young adults. I don't, I just don't get to control you anymore. And just being able to give people permission to screw it up, learn the hard way. Even when you're looking like, don't do that. You probably shouldn't do that.

And then just trusting that it's all, you know, whatever, however it works out, it's going to be okay. And that's not easy. I'm not saying it is but at the end it's the only way to have peace because otherwise you'll just be nuts yes so what would you say menopause is is working in the world or what would you say if you could sort of say what the sacred role of menopause is how would you describe it what's the sacred role of menopause that sounds like a book well I think once uh you figure it out and accept it then the role is just for you to graduate and elevate and to your best self and to really just tap into why you're here and what you really came to do and to really just to do that thing.

And that could be a gift to the world that you're holding out if you're not, you know, really honoring the gift that you have. and a lot of times I see women that are they're in this job over here and but they have these run leads but they they can't see how where they are now how they can be over here doing that thing because they're like well that's ridiculous you know and I'm like it's not ridiculous, right? It's a gift. And spirit, whoever you believe in is speaking to you. And it's like you have this opportunity. And is it an easy transition sometimes?

No. But just allowing and accepting that you wouldn't have this vision and this idea if it wasn't something about it that was meant to probably come into fruition so just honoring that that this is a sacred time that you can really tap into, you know, what your true purpose is. And that is ultimately going to be a gift for the world and for everyone around you. When you really are walking in your purpose and your gifts

and you are doing your work, I mean, that's the best gift I think we can give anyone. That beautifully said said this feels like a really good way to close okay you said your rules for self-care in menopause are no shame no apologies no guilt no explanations no excuses which i really love just in closing would is there something you'd like to say to someone in menopause who's struggling to find to to claim time for themselves for this process um yeah I mean you're you're gonna have excuses and you're gonna have

apologies and all of those things are gonna to happen, but just recognize that that's happening, right? Like recognize you're making an excuse, recognize that you're apologizing for something that, you know, and so again, you got to meet people where they are. And if you can at least just begin to notice the patterns and the things that you're not doing or that you're doing that aren't supporting you. They're not helping you. And I think for a lot of women, it's just hard because we are so accustomed to making sure everybody else is okay. And this is, you know, just that time to give you permission, you know, it is okay for you to do you and take care of you. Because, you know, odds are, for the majority of us, we've taken care of somebody. And we've, we've done all of those

things. And not saying that we're not going to continue, but at the end of the day, it just, you know, you, you can't pour from an empty cup and it's okay to fill your cup up because the only reason we're filling our cup up is so that we can pour more out, right? We're not just filling our cup up so we can go somewhere and have a full cup because by nature, we're still going to pour into other people. So you have to do it. Like you have to do it. If you're going to keep going, you have to fill your cup up. You have to take care of you first because you're not serving anybody else. And this kind of idea that, oh, I'm so tired and I work so hard and I do. It's like, yeah, well, that's on you. It's not a, it's not a, that's not a positive thing anymore. Right. That's just not,

it's not impressive that you work so hard that you don't have time for yourself. Now it's, well, shame on you because you need to take care of you. Period. Without apologies. It's well, shame on you because you need to take care of you. Period. Without apologies. It's not, you know, and people will, unfortunately, they'll make you feel some kind of way about it. They really will. Right. They'll guilt you like, oh, you get a massage every other week. Oh, you go to a mirror.

Oh, yes, I do. Yes, I do. And yes, I do. I don't I don't need to. I don't need to explain it. I just do that because it makes me happy. It makes me feel good. And I know that it, it supports me in everything else I want to do for everybody else, because this is why I do what I do, but I'm going to take care of me. And that's probably the only child in me, but i am going to take care of me i love that yes i do yes i do yes i do yes i do thank you so much thank you for everything you've shared today thank you for the beautiful work you're doing in the world um to change the story

around menopause it's just been such a delight to be with you. Thank you, Dr. Ariana. Thank you. Thank you for your work and all you're doing and educating women and really giving a, shedding a different light. You know, it's not just about, you know, can you take estrogen and breast exams and, you know, all the things, but it really is a mind, body and spiritual work that needs to happen. And it's not just menopause as you, you know, describe in all spiritual work that needs to happen. And it's not just menopause as you, you know, describe in all your work. It's, it's really women tapping into all of their power through their, their whole life cycle. This is a great time, but it's not like, you know, our younger sisters don't have lots of wisdom and things to,

to tap in as well. We just know that on this side, we just kind of got a little bit more going on. We understand it a little better. I feel it. I feel it in you. Thank you so much. All right, Miss Sophie.

Thank you. much all right miss sophie thank you thank you for joining me and for listening all the way through to the end today i found that conversation so refreshing with its honesty and its transparency and we've received feedback and requests from you from the community gathered around the podcast to hear from more people who are in still working with negotiating their way through the menopause process and I feel that Dr. Ariana is you know shared from that place really beautifully okay so I'd love to reiterate our invitation to you for the live webinar that's happening on World Menopause Day, How Menopause Awakens Your Power. It's 9am on Wednesday, the 18th of October. You can register at redschoolmenopause.com. And we'd love to have you with us, whether you're still in your cycling years and are curious about

menopause. Maybe you've been told you're in perimenopause. Maybe you're in the middle, the thick of the menopause transition. Maybe you work're in perimenopause maybe you're in the middle the thick of the menopause transition maybe you work with people in menopause so wherever you find yourself and plus you might be living post-menopause but are interested to make make some sense of your experience so wherever you find yourself you're totally welcome we'd love to have you with us redschoolmenopause.com and in the meantime please head over to our instagram where i'm having these 13 days of menopause power conversations there are several conversations already live i loved my chat with sophie fletcher she had some really brilliant stories about

this menopause quest that she's just been on, a great walking adventure through Europe and some brilliant stories that really illustrated some of her menopause powers. And upcoming, coming up, I have a chat with my dear friend, an old Tree Sisters colleague, the inimitable Claire Dubois about the powers that menopause is awakening for her and also a great friend of Red School and treasured elders as so many of us Jane Hardwick Collings is coming up too and so tune in on our Instagram I'd love to have you with us for those and I'll be with you again next week so until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm