The Menstruality Podcast - 110. Dismantling Old Identities and Rebirthing Yourself in Menopause (Lisa Schrader)

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Our guest today, Lisa Schrader, is the founder of Awakening Shakti and the author of Getting Started with Tantra and has impacted the lives of thousands of women for over a decade as a workshop leader, author, speaker and coach.She joined us for our live menopause course - Menopause: The Great Awakener -  last year and today, she shares how the course supported her through the 3-year post menopause dismantling-shedding-rebuilding re-birthing she’s currently emerging from. It’s been a deep process of dismantling old identities and recovering from a lifetime of over-achieving, pressure, performance, and people pleasing, to awaken the Queen archetype and a new kind of sovereignty.In our conversation we explore;Her long process of dismantling her inner “Overachiever” that was born when she was chosen to be the first Tantra and sacred sexuality teacher to appear on Oprah.How her garden has helped her reset her nervous system and attune to the new pace that menopause was inviting her into, slowing right down to reclaim her natural rhythm. What has helped her to navigate her body image demons, including how she is embracing pleasure and allowing her sensual connection with nature to guide her. ---Registration is now open for our menopause online course: Menopause: The Great Awakener - the early bird price is available until Oct 25th here - www.redschoolmenopause.com.---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyLisa Schrader: @awakeningshakti - https://www.instagram.com/awakeningshakti

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the Menstruality Podcast. Thank you for joining me today. This is a real beauty. I'm with Lisa Schrader. She's the founder of Awakening Shakti,

the author of Getting Started with Tantra. She's impacted the lives of thousands of women over a decade as a workshop leader and author and speaker and coach and Lisa joined us last year for our live menopause course menopause the great awakener and the doors actually opened for this year's round of the program yesterday we have an early bird price available until October the 25th but I'll tell you more about that later. So in our conversation today we talk all about Lisa's three-year post-menopause dismantling, shedding, rebuilding, rebirthing that she's currently emerging from, how menopause, the great awakener supported her through it and she's been in this amazing process of dismantling old identities and recovering fromver that was born when she was chosen to be the first tantra and sacred sexuality teacher to appear on oprah and actually how her

garden and being with like her hands in the soil has been what's helped her most to repair and to reset her nervous system and reclaim her own natural rhythm. Such a beautiful conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Let's get started with dismantling old identities and rebirthing yourself in menopause. Elisa, I'm so excited for this conversation. I've been loving your work and following your work for so so many years and it's just a delight to be with you and I can feel from reading some of your writings around menopause that your journey has been really rich and I have so many questions for you about it but first I'd just love to say thank you for being here and um yeah how are you doing today oh sweetheart thank you for the

invitation I've um I'm a huge fan of the work that you all are doing in the red school so it feels just it was an irresistible invitation to be invited to speak with you and to share with your community and um I'm doing fabulous it's an absolutely gorgeous day here in Northern California and yes um I'm having a beautiful morning gorgeous I'd love to start by hearing about where you feel you are at in the menopause process because I was reading you and reading that you had this you called it a three-year dismantling shedding rebuilding post-menopause rebirthing and yeah I'm curious to hear where you find yourself today with this process yeah it's um it's so interesting because I took the, your beautiful course menopause,

the great awakener with Alexandra and, um, Shani last year, um, in part so that I could better understand the journey. And it was interesting to be in the course because I'm, um, you know, I feel like I'm on the quote unquote other side of menopause. I'm 58 and I started my, you know, my last bleed was when I was 49. So I was in menopause actually right on my 50th birthday, like literally almost like to the month was my 13th moon when I was 50.

So I feel like, oh yeah, I'm supposed to be like way on the other side of this journey. And it has been really a decade of, and maybe it's going to keep going. I'm not sure, but it's been, you know, I love the title of that course, Menopause, the Great Awakener, because I do really feel like it's been an era. And I guess I would say to the women who are like, oh, you've got to be kidding me. I don't think I can handle these hot flashes for a decade. And interestingly enough, before I went through menopause, I had a dear friend who literally had been having hot flashes for like 15 years. And I thought,

Oh, that cannot be me, I will not be able to survive. But the thing is, I did survive, I did have a lot of symptoms. And they did go on for a really long time, but there's also so many blessings, right? There's so many blessings in the whole process. And so after doing the course, um, I realized for me at least, and, you know, I'm sure a lot of your listeners are familiar with the stages that they talk about. But, you know, betrayal, repair, revelation, visioning and emergence, just for those that might not be familiar with the stages. And what I really realized is that that repair period, I didn't really have time for or didn't take the time for when it was happening. So I had recently gone in love right when I started menopause with the man who's now my husband, my second husband. So I was also in the of, you know, that just intoxication of passion and love and, you know, this really deep soul

knowing that, ah, here's, here's the soulmate, here's my going to be my partner for life, you know, and it was very exciting. And then boom, like menopause hit, like right at that same moment too. And then there was, you know, a selling of a home and moving and lots of dismantling that happened. And so the repair stage for me, I think really got postponed and then the pandemic hit and we were all in a state of right shock and retreat and isolation and moving within. And that really was the door opening for me around that repair stage. And I thought, oh, you know, after a year of pandemic, I'm ready to emerge now. And I've, you know, ready to ready

to kick things into gear again. And that was not true. Like that repair stage for me really required. And I have to say, I feel incredibly blessed that my life was such that I could really pull back. And we also moved, Michael and I bought land and we moved from an adorable little apartment downtown, you know, being townies to being out in the country and being on land and starting to garden and get my hands in the dirt and plant fruit trees and vegetable gardens and reclaim an old rose garden and feed the birds and get some chickens. And, you know, like we really, really started to root. And that was a huge part of also my repair phase and yeah so I guess that to answer the question that's kind of where I am now like I've been

I'd say three yeah three three plus years of really shedding and dismantling old identities and kind of recovering from a lifetime of overachieving and hustling and pressure and performance and pleasing, right? that were very characteristic of you know the mothering phase of my life and yeah it's really been such a deep awakening into what I would call more the queen archetype um moving stepping out of the mothering phase and into this place of deeper sovereignty and wise womaning, womaning and baby eldering. And, uh, yeah, that's all been part of, of the cycle. And so I actually feel like now, um, the repair phase feels like it's actually feeling pretty complete, you know, that know me, my mom says all the time, I've never seen you happier. And, um, I talked to a dear friend the other day who said your whole nervous system feels like it's been reset and there is a, um, just a blessed feeling of, um, yeah, like grounded

soft, sovereign power. Ooh, that I'm at this point. And I am now emerging and learning how to teach, how to coach, how to align with my Dharma from this place. And it's very new it's really very very new and it's it's exciting wow grounded soft sovereign power yeah you shared so much there lisa the first thing that feels really important to pick up on is the way you described you know that yes your final period was when you were 49 and now that's nine years ago decade i love this this way you phrased it as an era and that just highlights what alexander and shani share in wise power which is

in a way there isn't a map for this wild terrain and the phases offer some kind of holding and they unfold in their own timing and it's completely unique to each person and you know in our world today there's this sense of, well, this happens then, and at this age, this happens, or like, there are medical definitions of menopause. And there's just a lot of confusion, we did a whole podcast episode about it recently, how to know if you're in menopause, there's so much confusion about it. But you just as you illustrated beautifully, I guess this cultivating this capacity to be in touch with yourself means that you can allow the process to be unfurling even though you're off all charted territory. Yeah and honestly you know I

think well there were many reasons I felt drawn to the courts but I love a good model I love a framework I just geek out on things like that. And so like five phases, oh my gosh, tell me what they are. I want to know where I am and how to like, right. And then what was interesting is that I could feel, I felt so resonant, particularly with this repair stage. Yeah. And I think when I sought out the course, I wanted to know, is it normal that this like that to have delays, you know, in these phases or like, is it okay that, you know, I think the repair phase was supposed to happen, you know, sometime after I stopped bleeding or in the middle of that year.

And, and why is it happening literally eight or nine years later? And so it, what I think it's really important to, yes, just exactly what you're saying, Sophie, which is this, the frameworks are so valuable, the structures are so valuable. And then, you know, I think of it more like a spiral, I'm sure there was some level of repair, maybe that happened right after I stopped bleeding, but for me, and maybe for a lot of you out there, it's just time for it when it happens and that it has its own intelligence. And at least for me, I don't think I allowed myself to go there when it, maybe when it was presenting itself, you know, and that was because at least from an economic point of view, I still felt like I really needed to hustle. I was also still very much in a like growing my business phase. And like the idea of taking time off or tending to myself in that way just didn't really feel like a reality for me. And so, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's so important, I think, to

remember that, you know, this, this feminine journey is a circle. It's a spiral. It's an undulation. And so we come back around on the spiral when, you know, that season arises again. Yeah. It's such a beautiful way of seeing it it I have also heard Alexandra and Shani say that you know some people are bleeding all the way through their journey through the phases and it's only when they kind of complete the phases that the bleed stops or some people yeah it's years after and that's why they're really yeah really clear to say you know your own relationship with yourself is what you know they talk about as a journey into authority and this is part of it is only you know you declare it for yourself they say when you're when you're in your second spring you

declare it for yourself no no doctor can tell you yeah right right the next thing that I was really inspired by when you were speaking was, you were talking about during your process of repair, how you were rooting in and how moving away from the town and being on the land was a really feels like it was a really big part of that. And it's a theme I keep hearing again and again and again is the relationship with nature is such a deeply important part of coming home to ourselves in menopause yeah that is absolutely true for me and And, yeah, I mean, as we're speaking, I'm looking out my window at, you know, many acres of madrone trees and pine trees and oak trees. the birds are flitting around the bird feeder and the squirrels are busy, very busy at this time of the year, burying things and, you know, the lights reflecting off of the bird bath, um, water that I just replenished this morning. And, you know, the trees are starting to turn in the, because of the fall.

And so like, they're getting fiery red and, you know, the colors are starting to come and there's just, um, there's the, there's the pace of nature that was so important to um yeah to to for me to reclaim and to learn how to attune to that pace like you know even this intimacy with the intensity of the seasons here, you know, sometimes there's snow everywhere and, you know, the deer are coming around to munch the leaves they can reach and leaving their little hoof marks in the snow. And then spring is just this cacophony of fertility and fecundity and everything just exploding, you know, and all of those, those seasons, there was just something so important to me in terms of letting that be a teacher for my own rhythm and reclaiming what my actual rhythm was and learning how to ratchet down and slow down and work with, you know, the parts of me that are very much my hyper achiever and,

and hyper accomplisher, which has gotten me really far and is, um, been also a survival mechanism for me, um, in terms of like, okay, all this craziness, I can have some control over, you know, when I'm accomplishing and all of that. Right. And so there's just been such a, um, and just, you know, the addiction to adrenaline and intensity and, um, yeah, being here and, and being intimate with the land and intimate with the seasons and the growth cycles. Yeah, and the love, you know, the way the land gives back, you know, that we can plant these, you know, little starts in the garden, like these little chart, you know, starts that we put in this little pony pack, these, you know, six little tiny things, you know, that costs like, I don't know, five bucks, right for this little thing. And then to just watch that chart take over the garden bed and feed so many people, you know, I just take arm loads of it to friends and, you know, it just

gives and gives and gives and yeah, that reciprocity that tend that the love, you know, like I love you little charred plants and you love me back in such an abundant way. Yeah. It's just been incredibly healing incredibly healing oh it's it's delightful to hear you speak in this way and I'm I'm imagining this has been a huge part of the nervous system reset that I think you said um that one of your loved ones had recognized in you that part of this is your nervous system feels completely different now on the other side of this repair phase yeah truly you know the hyper achiever part of you you know I'm asking for a friend here this is absolutely nothing to do with me or anything of course not

what has that process been like was it was it very painful to let go did you feel like that was kind of being ripped away from you or has it been like a slow and steady aha this isn't like you say that these queen this sort of queenly power has replaced it yeah i'm just curious to hear about that process okay first i will say this it's in progress right i still feel very much um like it's in it's it's in, it's, it's in its evolution. But I feel like one of the greatest gifts in this process and in this men what I could accomplish or, you know, being seen as successful and sort of living up to my internal and I think external expectations about who I would be.

You know, it's also a relevant part of my biography is, was being sort of plucked out of relative obscurity as a fledgling sacred sexuality and Tantra teacher and being asked to appear on Oprah and yeah, being proclaimed an expert on this passion of mine that was actually fairly new for, for me at the time. And then living up to right, like being that, being that girl, being the girl that was on Oprah, you know, it was like, it was the, this, the sexiest, shiniest, most profound thing that had ever happened to me. And yeah, you know, like really coming back to, you know, if I'm not all that am I still worthy am I still valuable if I'm you know what if I'm not going to be this like you know seven figure goddess in the world you know and and this like rockstar entrepreneur. What if I actually don't want all of that?

Or if it's just not showing up for me that way, like, is it okay to go back to my love and my passion, which is really coaching, you know, and working one-on-one with people and teaching, you know, and I think to go, to go into the, you know, was it ripped away? Yeah. That, you know, the, the, that first stage of menopause in terms of it being called betrayal was pretty accurate. You know, I just felt really stressed about, you know, the whole launch cycle, for example, those of us who are doing online work. You know, it's it's exhausting to go through the launch cycle and enrolling people and marketing and promoting. And, you know, I got to a place where I just felt like I couldn't do it anymore. And I couldn't partly, it was just physical, physical energy, stamina focus, but it was also a soul thing where

my soul was like, no, you know, and my beloved was like, oh, please don't do another launch. I don't, I hate seeing you get so stressed out. And I'm like, no, it's going to be different this time. I'm going to do it differently. It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine. But yeah, I mean, it's it. Yes. So there was a kind of like, yeah, this is not sustainable anymore. This is just not sustainable. And so then if I'm not doing that, then yeah, all those fears like, oh, I'm going to be forgotten. And how am I going to survive financially? And, oh, I guess I'm not going to be an important person in the world anymore. And, you know, I am blessed to hang out with some amazing women

in my life who are rockstar entrepreneurs and, you know, very well-known international teachers. And, you know, there was a real part of me that was like, wow, do I even get to sit at the table anymore? Like, are they going to want to be friends with me? And like, is it, what if like horror of horrors? I say, you know what? I don't know if I want this. It was terrifying. You know, it's like, Whoa, you've been working two decades for this. What do you mean? Where are you going? Like, and then the whole thing that happens in menopause where you feel like you're disappearing. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm disappearing. I'm being disappeared. Like how, why is this happening where am I going like who am I going to be after this you know if I am not that girl then who the hell am I

and so you know it's been some deep deep um inquiry and I've had to really face that hyperachiever, which, you know, she's standing there looking at me like, are you got to be kidding me? That's what you got done today. You know, you spent three hours in your rose garden, you know, and I'm like, yeah, that's what I got done. That's right. And that's important. And I'm not really sure why yet, but I know it's important. You know, I've had to really have some confrontational talks with those parts of me that, you know, are part of the patriarchy or part of that, like, you're not worthy unless you're producing and what do you got to show for your day and all of those, those pieces. And to really come into like, it's okay to be a human being. It's okay that like today I made a pot of soup and I fed my family. It's okay today that I actually cultivated an experience of sensual pleasure by sitting

in the sun. That's valuable. That's resourcing myself. There will be a time where I produce again. You know, I'm definitely coming on the other side of that, which is why I'm saying yes to doing podcast interviews again. And, you know, I'm starting to emerge again and I'm emerging from a place that has been deeply resourced and excavated. It's not that I'm not going to accomplish things and that I don't want to achieve things. I have a super strong need to contribute. And what I'm super committed to is to write my book and do whatever I'm going to do next with this work because I'm passionate

about my work, but doing it from a place that is anchored in pleasure, that is anchored in my body and my heart and my spirit and my rhythm and my pace and what's actually sustainable for me and trusting that that will be successful quote unquote and that it's not my business to determine what that success looks like I'm going to pause this beautiful conversation with Lisa for a moment. I loved hearing her speak about her experience of Menopause The Great Awakener, our menopause online course. The doors have just opened. They opened yesterday on World Menopause Day. You can save £45 with a special early bird price if you register before October the 25th. And when you join, you actually get lifetime access to this intimate journey through the five phases of the menopause spiritual

awakening process. So people come back again and again, which really enriches the journey in amazing ways. So the course can help you wherever you're at in the menopause process. You can discover how to prepare for menopause so that you can arrive ready or as ready as you can be for the initiation. You can discover how to recover the backstory or the lost years of your menstrual cycle if you're already post-menopause. You'll learn about the spiritual architecture of the menopause transition, these five archetypal phases of awakening, how to handle the accompanying pitfalls, challenges and possibilities you might encounter, the keys to access the wisdom of each phase of the transition and the crucial skills and practices that you need to navigate menopause and how to cultivate them so that you can fully

receive the spiritual process that you're undergoing the journey starts on November the 3rd we would absolutely love to have you with us you can register and receive the early bird price before October the 25th at redschoolmenopause.com that's redschoolmenopause.com. I keep hearing this, that a big part of the menopause transition is kind of like this warrior goddess who is sweeping through our culture and dismantling the patriarchy and decolonizing these systems that keep us grinding and hustling and just smashing our capitalism probably will exist for quite a while but at least like opening up the ideas around capitalism and and having to and this you know consumer culture and just really seeing menopause it's like you know through the bodies of these uh people who are stepping into their power and wisdom women and people stepping into their menopausal power and wisdom, just shaking up the whole show, you know?

Yes. Just in the last few days, I've spoken to a woman who was a doctor for 20 years and came into menopause and went, nope, cannot do this anymore and has totally changed her practice. And a woman who is a CEO who's saying, right, cannot do this anymore and has totally changed her life. And it's definitely a theme. It's definitely a theme. Absolutely. Yeah. I see it in my coaching practice constantly this like, yeah, this kind of radical reclaiming and redirecting and alignment, you know? And yeah, I mean, the, the, the blessing is that you that you literally can't do it the same way anymore.

And that can be terrifying, right? Really, it's like, whoa, how am I going to do what I'm going to do? Because doing it the way that I've done literally isn't sustainable. It can't deal with the stress. My body's falling apart. You know, it's, it's affecting my marriages and my relationships. I don't, I'm not sleeping. Right.

Or, you know, and, or disease processes are starting to take hold that are literally like, no, you may not do that anymore. You need more rest or you need to tend to your health, right? Like it's, it's, uh, it's such a wake up. And so then what does that mean? Or, or we're just done. No, we're not done, but we're done with that way. We are done with that way of doing and the body in her brilliance is saying let me help you with that because that yeah is not sustainable anymore wow it's so beautiful what you're saying lisa i'm keen to explore explore other aspects of your identity that have been being dismantled.

And I'm thinking of a post I saw from you where you spoke about your post-menopausal goddess body. Yeah. This is on Instagram. Can I just read what you said in the caption and we can look at it? Sure. So it was a beautiful photo of you from from behind sitting by the river and it said it honestly feels edgy to post this photo of myself vulnerable but also so real I noticed when I'm in my happy place on the Yuba river which I have had been lucky to

swim in and boy is that river beautiful naked and with the elements. I feel completely at home in my body, my postmenopausal middle-aged goddess body. Online, viewing my body through that gaze of self-consciousness, all kinds of feelings arise. Part of my journey, walking the Shakti woman way, is to marry these worlds, to bring some of this simple beauty joy from nakedness at the river into this space which can be so full of perfectionism photoshopping and objectification i know it's medicine for me to see real women's bodies all sizes and ages and colors can we gaze at one another with greater love and appreciation what arises in you when you hear that back now well it actually made me cry

um just because there's such a uh yeah, there's just a lot of medicine. There's just a lot of medicine in that. And I think it touches my heart, particularly that last line, like, can we gaze upon ourselves and others with, you know, just greater kindness and greater, greater love. And, you know, I have to say, being, you know, in this online world, sharing my awakening Shakt am really buoyed, I guess, by the opening for more realness there. You know, there's also the other side, right, of just how incredibly toxic that work can be, especially for our young, young women. So I i'm not that's very much part of the world but on the other maybe end of the spectrum there is also just more um viewing i think of real bodies and you know not having to have them make up not having to have, you know, be a certain size to

fit in those jeans, but like all the curvy, you know, colors, diversity, there's just, there's more available. And I think that's really healing to see. And I guess I also want to say, oh, this, you know, changing of the body, especially in our culture, which commod'm a very much an image person. I'm a, any a three type for those, you know, that the Enneagram, um, I've always thought of myself as really attractive and sexy. Um, I've, I w I've been used my whole life to walking into the room and feeling like, you know, I was one of the sexiest women in the room. I was used to getting that attention. I was used to playing with that attention and it had a lot to do with my body. And so stepping into this menopausal journey, which for me included a good 20 extra pounds and just all of the aging and graying and everything that happens

can happen to us in our fifties. Um, it was, it was another extremely confronting part of the journey for me. And, you know, there's a lot of work to be done around that a lot of compassion. And I would also say, honestly, Sophie, there's been what I would, I can only describe as kind of a descent of grace that is happening. Because I don't feel like I can take, you know, a credit for all of it. There is something that, that happens that is at least this happening for me. I hope it happens for, for all of us, but at least for me, it's happening where I am learning after a lot of kicking and screaming and judgment and obsessive thinking. I am learning to sort of tame those demons or confront those. They do feel like demons of body image stuff.

Yeah. And really appreciate this body that I have. And, um, even her, you know, little pudgy belly and to really like what's beautiful about that post. And I would say this is also true for me sexually and in the bedroom is that if I, and I would invite all of us to really like lean towards this when we are in our bodies. And particularly if we have cultivated some practices around embracing pleasure and being alive sensually and trusting that, that our sensuality can guide us and that it's a reflection of our goddessness and feeling, you know, the sun on our skin or smelling the fragrances and tasting the chocolate and like really actively engaging with our senses as a way to nourish this temple body of ours and help it come alive that then being, you know, naked on

the river or being skin to skin with a beloved, if you have a lover or a partner that you're engaging with, it's a place to rest into and explore that doesn't have anything to do with the external gaze. It has to do with being alive from within. And I think that that post speaks to that for me. And, you know, my daughter and I have talked about this, about like going to a beach and putting a bathing suit on it makes and being seen by other people like there is a way that I feel so much less comfortable in that environment than I do in an environment where you know we're fortunate here in northern California to have that environment I know a lot of people don't, but to be fully naked, there is a freedom. And there it's, it's, it's, I'm actually less

self-conscious when I'm naked. And I feel the same way when I'm like in my clothes and I'm trying to look a certain way when I take those clothes off and I get to just be in the sensual experience of making love with Michael and feeling all the sensations that to me is like the, the, that is an expression of Shakti of this divine feminine energy that is, is available to all of us. I feel like at the end of it all, you know, when, when we're done with this world, I will look back because I'm already doing this and saying, oh my God, I can't believe the time and energy I wasted criticizing that body, you know, wishing it was different, wishing my boobs were bigger bigger wishing my butt was smaller you know all that stuff like it it really is irrelevant and it's more and more obvious to me how irrelevant it is

like enjoy that body yeah such beautiful permission you're bringing here. You know, I know that you've journeyed long with these practices around sensuality and pleasure and the erotic. you know you spoke beautifully there embracing pleasure being alive essentially how it can be kind of portal or support or something that can hold us or open up new possibilities through menopause can you sense from what I'm asking I'm not even quite sure what the question is yes yes yes yes I feel the frequency of it. Yeah. Okay. Let's just chat about like some of the opportunities here, right? I have to say like around this whole body image thing.

Yes, there is grief there. I do not want to overstep that. We need to be in circles. We need to give ourselves permission to grieve the changes, you know, I mean, and grieve the loss of identity, you know, and like, whoa, that this is really different. And this body looks really different. And maybe this body has more aches and pains and it doesn't do what it used to do and all of that stuff like that absolutely needs to be grieved. So I don't, I don't want to spiritually bypass that.

I think that, you know, the depth to which we are willing to acknowledge whatever that is for us is the depth that we will be able to have the breakthrough and step into what's new for us. And, and, but that's crucial. So I want to say that first, having said that there is, you know, when, when one door closes, another one opens, there is a liberation on the other side and the liberation is, oh my gosh, thank God that I don't have to be like obsessed with that anymore. Yes. There's such a burden around all of that. I feel relieved. And so like they're even inside of the, Oh my God,

I'm disappearing and I'm not being seen anymore. The grief of that. There's also like, woohoo. I almost feel like Harry Potter with my visibility cape, you know, like it's kind of cool to be in spaces and to be an observer and just to like be, yeah, there's some, I mean, the introvert in me is actually kind of saying like, hallelujah. Like, could we, could we not be on the center of the stage? Like, I kind of like it over here. Okay. So there's also a relief in, in all of that. And I think part of the relief and hopefully this like movement towards acceptance allows this like soft animal body that we have to quote Mary Oliver, like, what is this soft animal body of yours? What turns her on? What does she want to explore? Right? Like for me, there's been a big, like, uh, you know, and I've been doing this work for 20 years, but there's still, even with all

the work that I've done, there's still that part of me that was the performer. And so there, she is just like, she's kind of left the building she's certainly left the building in the bedroom and so now like there is just this like raw presence and where is the pleasure right now where is the love right now how does this body want to move? There's a freedom. There's a, there's a, there's a permission to be more connected with my wildness. If I'm not caring so much about how I look or how I appear, or am I pleasing you or, you know, more about just like, what if I could just be my authentic self? And this is what's turning me on right now.

Now I'm blessed to have a partner who loves that about me. Right. And it's a super safe space for me to be real. And, um, yeah, so there's the, you know, there's that piece. I also think at this point in our lives, hopefully, but it's never too late, I wanna say, never, ever too late. I've coached women on their sexual awakening

that were well into their 70s and 80s who came and said, is it too late for me? No, it's not too late for you. Like if you are alive, that Shakti, that divine feminine energy is moving through you and it can be expressed and it can be like moved through your sexual energy. So, but, and hopefully we know a lot about this body. Now we know a lot about this vulva Now we know a lot about this vulva. We know a lot about this clitoris.

We know a lot about what turns us on. And I think part of the wise woman being is, is just making sure that the sexual experiences, whether through overt communication or much more subtle cues is like, let's align with my energy here. Let's align with what pleases me. This is what pleases me. It feels like there's more permission and our voices are stronger and we have more data we know. And when a woman, and I'm speaking from a very heteronormative perspective here. So I want to say, of course, this is true in any gendered, whoever's making love in

whatever gendered bodies they are. I do believe very often for passion and polarity, There is one person holding the more yin, or maybe we might say more feminine arc and one that's holding maybe the more masculine, the more young it gets confusing with the masculine and the feminine energies. We might also call them solar and lunar that helps me get out of like that. Um, from my perspective perspective given that i'm making love with a very very strongly masculine male there is yeah permission to yeah play in that dynamic to really anchor into my pleasure and give my cues to my man, in this case, the more that he brings the goddess in me into states of ecstasy, insta states of great pleasure, the more that frequency is available for him.

And there is a sort of knowing there that, you know, she to, you know, warm up a little bit more slowly, typically, just physiologically and biologically, is the one to set the pacing. So that, you know, the energy can continue to build, right. Whether that's to orgasm or just to, you know, riding around in, you know, orgasmic states of energy, whether that's, you know, love making, whether that's penetration or not, like that, that delicious dance of possibility and presence is actually being guided, right. By, by something other than conscious me, right. It's, it's goddess

inside of me dancing with, you know, the Shiva, the, the God energy and my partner, that's just all so much richer for me now. And I also just want to say to all of you out there who are, you know, dealing with the very real symptoms of vaginal dryness or, you know, the, all of the challenges that can come with the, that, that are happening hormonally. First of all, there's lots of solutions for that. So please talk to your naturopaths or your doctors and make sure you're getting, you know, your hormones, the way that they need to be, um, to support the changes in your body. Once I got that handled, um, I am having absolutely the most exquisite orgasmic sex of my life at almost 59 years old. And I wouldn't go back. And I had some wild, crazy, beautiful, intense sexual experiences. It's been a big part of my life. Nothing, nothing compares

to the lovemaking, to the embodiment, to the sensuality, literally to the ecstatic orgasmic states that I am currently experiencing. Nothing compares in my earlier life to what I'm experiencing right now. So from the other side of menopause, I want to say that is absolutely possible. And let us not think that we're on some slippery slope where if sex is important to you you need to give that up it's absolutely beautiful to hear you speak and i'm i'm imagining that the possibilities here around pleasure and sensuality and sexual pleasure really go hand in hand with the capacity

to surrender into the unraveling dismantling process of of the phases of menopause that like the more i think you said there's something like this earlier the deeper we can go into the unraveling the more we'll be able to open up to this kind of possibility when it comes to pleasure. Am I getting that right? I would say that's absolutely true. And I want to just add into that, yes, that a definition of surrender, which i originally learned from the great uh tantra teacher who came from who who came to the west with a lot of tantric teachings um margot anand i originally learned from her this definition of surrender which is sir is the suffix that has to do with higher or more expansive. And to render is to melt, right?

Like we talked about melting. So if we look at the etymology of that word, it is not about giving up. It is not about losing. It is actually about melting into something higher. Right. So in that way, when, and of course we need to have safety, right? Like we're not going to surrender into ecstasy where we're, we're literally dissolving our ego for, you know, our ego and our identity for a few moments. Like when we haven't, when we reach that orgasmic state or when we really surrender into ecstasy, we are in a dissolution process, right? We have that, that's why we say,

oh my God, oh my God, when we climax, we are going back to, you know, the big bang, the origin of, you know, incarnation, you know, from the cosmic the cosmic you know the tantric cosmic mythology right like this is it was the great love making of shakti and shiva god and goddess that created the world right and it certainly created us Right. The two come together and boom, create new life. And so if we're going to go to that place, we absolutely have to feel safe. Because why, why would we exit if we didn't think we could come back? Or if there wasn't like a solid ground for us, an anchor, something that was holding so that we could leave temporarily in return. Right. So, you know, that's why, of course, like doing the deeper work around our sexual healing, of course, dealing with traumas and having, you know, a real feeling of safety is crucial.

And when that is there, then yes, melting into something higher and surrendering is a source of our power. Menopause is, is, is absolutely asking us to surrender and not not from that place of loss but this like you know gateway into something larger and i get you know each one of us gets to define what that is i'm a stand for it to be something having to do with your eroticism and your sexuality because i think that's really important that we have more Shakti goddesses walking around the world that are carrying that frequency of life and vitality that I think is part of our eroticism. But every, you know, it doesn't have to be that sex is just important to me. It doesn't have to be important to you. It could be that you're going to be funneling that surrendered

power into your spiritual practice or something else in life that's important to you lisa if people are loving this and would like to connect with you more what would be the best way to do that i invite you to come find me at awakening shakti.com. And I actually just have, I have a masterclass. I just put out as part of my emergence, it's free. And it's, it's called from pressure to pleasure, the Shakti woman way. And I talk about what this Shakti woman way looks like body heart and spirit so if you're interested and if you feel resonant that's a beautiful place to go gather a little bit more

you can also find me on the socials at awakening shakti s-h-a-K-T-I. Well, I feel enlivened on the other side of this conversation. I really appreciate you. I really appreciate the depths that you've been willing to go to through this process and what it's unearthed for you and how you're expressing it and bringing it forth now. It's beautiful to encounter. Thank you so much for everything that you've shared. Wow, Sophie, thank you so much. And thank you so much to the Red School for, you know, creating platforms and courses and communications and podcasts and communities where this can start to be our new normal. It's so important um and so i am a deep deep bow to you

and alexandra and shani and all of all of y'all over there who are um yeah creating the red the red circle for us i'm so so grateful it's been my pleasure thank you so much for listening all the way through to the end I hope you enjoyed this conversation and if you're approaching menopause or you're in menopause or a post-menopause and are looking to make sense and find the meaning within your experience please come and join us for Menopause the Great Awakener. You can find out all about the course and take your seat at redschoolmenopause.com. There's a special early bird price before October the 25th and there are also a number of full and 50% scholarships available for black, indigenous and people of colour, people in the LGBTQ plus community, people living with a

disability and people who are socio-economically challenged and you can apply at on the Menopause the Great Awakener webpage at redschoolmenopause.com. All right, that's it for this week. Thank you for joining me. I'll see you again next week, or I'll be with you again next week. And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.