The Menstruality Podcast - 111. How Menopause Initiates us into our Truth (Chameli Ardagh)

Episode Date: October 26, 2023

Today we’re carrying on a conversation about the initiatory power of menopause which we’ve been having with Chameli Ardagh, the founder of Awakening Women, since the beginning of her menopause process. Last year she emerged from her challenging process of descent and is sharing the fruits of her brutal, yet beautiful menopause underworld journey; which included divorce, the reshaping of her Calling, and the death of her son.Chameli Ardagh is a yogini, mystic and Goddess Wisdom Keeper. Her work is rooted in earth honoring, devotional women’s spirituality and goddess centered tantric yoga. One of the things I most love about her is her gift for storytelling and ability to bring ancient myths alive for our modern world.We explore: How the dismantling and transformation of menopause demands that we break age-old contracts based on self-sacrifice and learn to set new boundaries, as well as how these shifts ripples forwards and backwards in time.How cultivating compassion with ourselves is not optional through the menopause process. It is needed to embrace even the parts of us that are totally out of alignment with who we want to be. What happened when Chameli took herself on a honeymoon with herself during her early menopause dismantling, to a wild Hawaiian beach with a pod of dolphins!---Join us on for our Menopause: The Great Awakener course, starting Nov 3rd: https://www.redschoolmenopause.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyChameli Ardagh: @awakeningwomen - https://www.instagram.com/awakeningwomen/

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Today we're carrying on a conversation about the initiatory power of menopause which we've been having with Shamali Arda, the founder of Awakening Women, for many years since the beginning of her menopause process. Last year she emerged from her challenging

journey of descent and is sharing the fruits today of her brutal yet beautiful menopause underworld journey which included divorce, a real transformation of her calling and sense of purpose and the death of her son. In the podcast page at redschool.net I'll drop in the links to the previous conversations and Alexandra has referred to them as mind-blowing. And a little bit more about Shamali. Shamali Arda is a yogini, a mystic, a goddess wisdom keeper and her work is rooted in earth honouring devotional women's spirituality and goddess-centred tantric yoga. One of the things I most love about Shamali is her gift for storytelling

and her ability to bring ancient myths alive for our modern world. And I've actually been studying and practising with Shamali for over a decade now in her women's circle trainings, which are called Women's Temple, and her online goddess Sardinus. So just forgive me for my fangirling during this conversation. I hope you enjoy it. How menopause initiates us into our truth with Shamali Arda. So Shamali, I think you know how much I love you and I use that word genuinely

knowing you has has completely changed the trajectory of my life it's wonderful to be sitting here with you I feel so lucky I wanted to start the conversation by saying that I actually had a dream with you last night yes tell me. Is that creepy or is it? Creepy slash mystical, yes. We were in a festival inside a tent with other, there were other women there.

And the thing that really moved me is we were all holding each other with really gentle touch like in your women's temple experiences and I could really feel it in my dream that oxytocin sensation of just settling into my body with other women and it was just lovely to be with you and I've had that atmosphere with me all day of like this women's temple experience and so perhaps that can be the atmosphere for our conversation yes yes yeah but really just thank you thank you Shamalee thank you for everything you've taught me and thank you for being here with with all of us who are listening today deeply received Sophie deeply received you started a really beautiful conversation with Alexandra about menopause

I think three or four years ago which I'll drop a link to in the web page for this podcast and then you carried on the conversation in our wise power retreat last year when we were launching the wise power book and i was listening to that conversation again today and in it you talked about how you felt that you were coming out of the descent of your menopause process and you were kind of longing for um a ceremony to mark this this coming out moment and or rising up moment and one of the things you said was that you were starting to see colors again which i thought was so it's so evocative and also that you could kind of sense this liberation and sovereignty and power that people speak of post-menopause but that you

weren't in it yet that you were in another phase so I'm curious to hear how you are a year on and how how's your process unfolding yes what I experienced when I started to come out of kind of the underworld part the kind of dismantling part of facing all the exiled parts the whole reckoning kind of brutal and beautiful falling apart uh the kind of my relationship to dark goddess is one of immense love that she's she's devouring all structures that is too small for me that has served have served me in different periods of my life but then then event eventually becomes too small and too tight and kind of predictable and becomes like a prison um and she flowers all of that and i can kick and

scream and protest and want to cling on to the familiar but ultimately what she you know the the part of us that has the bigger vision of our evolution, she knows what's waiting. She knows she's so dedicated and committed to my freedom for real. Like my, like she serves the, the, the deepest longing on my soul to incarnate in truth, to, to allow soul source, to to to have as much space in this human body in life as possible and inevitably that is like becomes like a fire that

that runs through that will burn down all of kind of comfortable identities and masks and roles that, that are just too small. And so coming out of that phase, it was a sense, you know, of course, the very kind of vulnerable period. It was the sense of like taking wobbly steps into the new and what is here now. And then, and it was not like instant kind of, oh, I'm out now it's new start. It wasn't like that at all. It was a lot of, I came out quite bruised

and yeah, very humbled and very, one can say a new, yeah, the vulnerability was almost like insecurity, but in a very kind of, it was like a new yeah the vulnerability was almost like insecurity but in a very kind of it was like a new innocence and simplicity and kind of learning to walk again it was this sense of like okay how how do i do it now and part of that process that i've been in the last year has also to reckon with looking around me and see everything that I've built from the old me. Yes, it was like as if I was still living with that really intimate, deeper truth of what really matters. And for me, I came into such a simplicity and such a dedication to parts of myself that now it's, that had been kind of pushed aside while I was building up these personas to function in life now these parts kind of got center stage and kind of now it's now it's their turn to live

and to be centered and prioritized and then I looked around and I just saw quite a monstrous house that I had been building. So I've had to do quite hard work. Then once I know the truth, you can't continue the old way, but it doesn't mean that it's like comfortable to do the work of then starting to say no, starting to set boundaries, starting to say, no, Shamli doesn't do that anymore and disappoint people and like breaking contracts that really worked for a lot of people and worked for old me, but it doesn't work for new me. So it's just been quite a kind of nitty gritty work of changing structures around me so that I am coming into an alignment also in terms of my schedule, in terms of my priorities, in terms of my commitments. And when I have that kind of guiding light within me, that kind of undeniable connection to my deep desire and and kind of that simplicity of what I love and what I'm here for it becomes like a ruthless spotlight onto anything that is not that and it

sometimes I and it's in this kind of it's in this place where all of me would have said yes, because it's just more comfortable to say yes and then please others. And now I couldn't do that any longer. And I had to start to say no. And it was not comfortable for me. It was like, it brought up a lot of anxiety, a lot of physical nervous system activation and I started to learn that when I started to feel really kind of intense in my body and it was actually a signal that yes this is the right path

so it was like this old me would think that oh this is a signal that I should just kind of make it nice again and then everything is nice and everything ah I feel good in my body but it was a it was a calm that was built upon self-sacrifice actually for me and self-sacrifice is for me such a powerful word because it is a vibration that goes through my mother line in my mother my grandmother my grand like I'm breaking a contract that has been going on for a long time around creating peace and nice life based on women's self-sacrifice. And that is not possible anymore. So now I'm just doing the hard work of saying no, feeling my anxiety, feeling my breaking, oh, I'm breaking big contracts.

But every time I do, you know, it just gets easier and easier. So now, one year later, I actually, I'm waking every day in such a peace within me. It's like it's such a, I'm back in integrity with me and what I'm here to do and live and it feels very simple very I live now in the in the garden that I've created this last year of doing lots and lots and lots and lots of difficult choices and now I'm just walking around just oh wow every day i go like wow there's no problem wow wow the war is over and also actually noticing like a hypervigilance like because my body has

for so long been in crisis mode so i'm also holding that just like telling these parts of me that the war is over the war is over it's actually good so long answer wow it's fascinating the word peace you said so many times and I'm thinking of how you know through all my years of being with you and in your work peace in the world has been such a huge theme for you. In all the retreats we've done, you know, it's an offering. Our practice has been an offering to create peace in the world. And then there was the part of you that was people pleasing to create peace for others. And now you've done this work to actually create peace inside you

yeah there's a real beautiful spiral and and the kind of completion of a circle there that's very moving for me to hear and i'm so happy for you yes yeah and it's a spiral yeah it's spiral and i don't think it's over it's just that you know i'm visiting deeper layers of this self-sacrifice that i was not aware of like you can see how it's humbling to see how thick denial can be because even i who have been dedicated my dedicated my whole adult life you know awakening consciousness and weaving all the exile parts home. There was parts of me that was so hidden and it was that kind of identity of serving

which is part of my purpose here in life. It really is. You know, it's just the nuance of it that can be used by these roles, these roles that we learn very early in life that, oh, I can be worthy if I serve others. Yeah. Yeah. I hear this time and time again, because I'm lucky to be speaking to so

many women in the process or on the other side. I'm, I'm incredibly lucky. And what I keep hearing is just no stone is left unturned anything isn't truth is is shown and so I'm curious to hear how to ask this question like how did you see those parts what what was it that awakened in you were there specific patterns in certain relationships or it has happened many times uh throughout many years where I I go into my generosity and I do all the things and I give and then something happened in the way other people treat me that all of a sudden kind of snaps the trance and it's like a like I and I fall down in kind of devastation it's like it's as if i'm kind of in a make-believe world where i oh if i'm just generous then you know everything is going to work and then all of a sudden other people don't act in the way that that part of me expect and then um i i remember a particular part like during the pandemic i went into kind of

i put on a super superman cape and just set out to kind of save everybody from this isolation and we built this wisdom school and i never worked so hard in my whole life and it was a sense of serving but it was also a trauma response it was a way that I went into one of my roles like I can save the day I can do this and then it became so it took over in such an extent that it kind of burned itself out and it was one particular time where I was with my team I had been up all night doing kind of work that because we were all doing everything for the first time yeah so I also were doing their work and then I was going to also create do my work yeah create content and teach. And I was like just doing everything, all the things.

And then something happened with my team where I just realized that they had other priorities or there was something like that snapped for me where I just fell apart. And it was this sense of the trance just broke for me. And instead of being in the coping I was you know falling into actually what was fueling that coping you know which was like really deep deep deep um falling apart and instead of coping I fell apart and I had support to really fall apart. And at certain points, I couldn't even function. It was just such a, I was, yeah, I had to meet parts of myself that was so not what I would identify myself.

You know, I identify myself as a woman who loves life. Here I had to meet shadow parts that, like parts of me that was suicidal when I was a child, like I had to, that was left behind in my identity of loving life. I identify as someone who trusts the goddess. And I had to meet shadow parts of me that was like in complete mistrust and felt completely betrayed by goddess by all the things that she took from me uh i had done you know it was like this kind of work and to actually feel and meet these parts was what was needed for me to laugh and an even deeper intimacy with goddess and with my own power and with my own self um so it was like it was a perfect storm for me it was the menopause pandemic divorce my son died like a lot of main relationships changed form it was a perfect storm where all of this that had worked well for me just was ripped away.

And so then I went into that part of the Inanna journey where the goddess go down into underworld. And I met this part where it's no longer a choice. There's no longer a choice there's no longer voluntary it's just like my path has been my whole life has been to turn towards the shadow and integrate so I have been doing that doing that doing that and then it's almost like I have done my part as far as I could and then I was swept into an orbit where I no longer was doing it. Something else took over. And it was a sense of me, you know, reaching to, to the, you know,

in to the dark, into the shadows. And then all of a sudden something started to reach for me. And, you know, that was a deeper understanding of that devouring, loving, the devouring love of the goddess where, where there was a, not even a feeling of trust, but there was a sense of just being in a whirlwind swirl, swirling down, just not knowing if I would survive literally so it was and then something else started to come meeting me reaching me holding me which was yeah just the the greatest blessing of my life really you know you've you've guided all of us through initiatory processes a lot and as i'm hearing you

speak it sounds like this was a new kind of initiation or a new a new piece of the initiatory process that you hadn't encountered before yeah and it feels like you know it's so accurate to speak about it in spirals yeah because we're visiting the same places and you can kind of integrate and see and face and you know accept parts embraced parts but i discovered that there even even deeper roots that can be healed if you're willing to go there or if you if we are able to go there i have always been willing but i just saw that there was um my senses that all that my practice for for you know for more than 30 years in my whole life has been spiritual practice and it feels as if all of that has created enough compassion and safety within me it was like almost, almost like I created a cozy, enough cozy, enough warmth,

enough accepting room inside me. And that is what needed for the roots to be revealed and healed. So that is what I come out of this with. My teaching now is just, if i can say one thing is come to to cultivate compassion towards ourselves is not an optional thing it's not a feeling we sometimes have it's essential in our path because we're going to meet parts of ourselves that are so intolerable to us uh it's a reason why they are hiding because we speak about oh i want to embrace all parts of myself but what that actually means is

that we meet parts of us that are that are really not what we want to where we want to go and um and that's where that compassion comes in and that's what heals it's the and it's compassion is not really something that i feel and give to myself or others it's something that comes through me so that's why we emphasize so much in our practice the kind of cultivation we cultivate the capacity to kind of unclench our automatic responses of resisting or doing or pushing or pulling so when we have a feeling we soften around it so it can flow through and that softening allows also presence to begin to flow through and when that vastness of presence that we experience in our meditation in our our practice, when we begin to receive that

into our being, it's love. And that is what heals. We think that we are doing healing or we can fix this so we can analyze ourselves to the perfect version of ourselves one day. But all we can actually do is our part of unclenching so love can come in and do what it needs to do so in one way that falling apart that dismantling of menopause i the way i see it is what actually happens is that more of that can flow through us we actually are because our roles and masks are less rigid we can't hold them together anymore we literally are changing body everything um it allows something else to come in and do it and do and heal he illuminate heal yeah what alexandra always says about menopause is it's this wild love pushing through and it's yeah it's a yeah yeah uncomfortable

painful terrifying sometimes and and it's love that is pushing through yeah she's so insistent on it I want to come back to that love because there were some beautiful things you said to Alexander about that a kind of hunger that you had for yourself and I'd love to ask you about it but I just want to follow something that's moving in me which is I'm thinking of when I first found you and it was probably 13 years ago or something and I'd been in spiritual paths and traditions that were made by men for men I mean they all are really and I've been so badly hurt by those experiences and I found you and the circle that we practice with and you were offering something that was fresh on in our world a spiritual path for the feminine you could say or by women for women where we are instead of trying to transcend our humanity we're leaning into our physical experience our emotions

we're like you were saying softening to allow the whole spectrum rainbow of feelings and experiences to flow with without identifying with it so in that context of seeing menopause as such an incredibly important part of this body of work or spiritual practice it's like the motherland of it it's the the great unclenching in that context yeah it is um we're going to radical shift that it's kind of designed yeah it is designed to complete a life phase and and certain roles so even physically you know her hormones are not any longer the hormones that allows us to to tend you know to family and children are literally not there in the same way anymore so it is a shift of role that is happening on all levels and for some you know it's more or less dramatic it's not everybody who has a very dramatic, but everybody goes through a shift.

It is a shift of identity for, you know, most. I mean, everybody has to go through aging. And so in that sense, it is a shift of identity. And, you know, this kind of, that is the dismantling and the transformation that is part of menopause is also something that people experience through many life phases. Yeah. When you, even when you became a mother, it was a, it was a completion of your, you know, your identity before being a mother. Yeah. So that's never going to come again.

You're never going to have that again. That was ending and you became a mother yeah so that's never going to come again you're never going to have that again that was ending and you became a mother and um and then some of us you know experience illnesses or loss or divorces you know it's it's oftentimes when when when life as we know it changes or fall apart, it's actually an opening. It's like a crack in the roles and the masks and identities that feel so frightening and scary because it's a loss of what's familiar. But also that's where the goddess path shows us

that there is an opportunity right there to know ourselves deeper than the roles and masks and identities that they come and go. That's not who we are. They are ats we take on, but eventually all of them will go. And who are we then? So these kind of transitions allows us to open more, be more receptive for a bigger self yes if we are held in a right way yeah because it's also it's it's it's both painful and traumatic and the possibility for transformation so that's why it's like this kind of shamanic edge right there where you can

be really burned or you can be really healed probably both yeah it's just a potent crossroad yeah but you know we are having those in smaller and bigger way throughout our lives yeah i hesitate to say this because i haven't experienced menopause so i can't speak to this but my sense hearing people speak is when I had five years of very debilitating chronic illness when I had four years of desperately wanting a child and it not happening and now I'm coming to the end of my third year of just being completely smashed open by motherhood I mean I don't know what the fuck is going on. Still, most of the time, I'm stretched to my very limits by this creative act of parenting. And I have an amazingly curious, adventurous, strong-willed child who is, especially at the moment, just testing and testing and pushing and and it's you know I look back at these yeah I do experience

them at each of them as initiatory times and I can just really relate to what people are saying going on in menopause because I've had to face well in parenting my toddler my own inner toddler who because it was the way of parenting at the time wasn't allowed to feel I wasn't allowed to feel so when he feels his big feelings she's kicking off and going shut up you don't get to do that and I have to parent her at the same time as parenting him I'm meeting yeah fierce parts of myself that are very difficult to reconcile it's about being a mother you know not wanting to be a mother after all of this longing and it's yeah so I'm I don't know what menopause is like but I do know what painful initiations are like and yeah

thank you for reflecting yes and I also want to reflect back to you Sophie just struck me now where you think about the dharmic thread of you who are has led you to this seat that you're having right now yeah where you speak to all of these women going through menopause like you have a seat in the existence and history of time and the universe that's probably never been before in that way that you are you know you're getting all of these conversations with all of this so you get it you're getting initiated in such a strong way at your age and then you also have a microphone so you get to share there's something very potent with the seat you're having right here and it's and also like the way that you are doing with me now documenting okay one year one year two and think if we can document you

from this time when you were meeting all the menopause women and you're working with the menopause course and supporting these masters in the mapping the menopause and then when you move in you know later into your 40s and to map it all out and see uh it makes me curious what's just already what's you know flowing through you it's just remarkable but now also when my early 30s i i was part of a woman's group with a lot of women who were going through menopause or had gone through menopause and i look back at that time already when i was in at that time i was aware that i am being initiated in a new, in just expanding my view on what menopause is and what, what aging is, because these women, I, I saw them blossom in front of my eyes. I saw them. I remember it was really annoying to relate to them because they would, they would follow their own rhythm in a

way that was just so new and provocative to me. Like, are you allowed to just, you know, say no to that? Or like, but it initiated me into a freedom and sovereignty that I saw was coming. And then of course, when I went through menopause from the inside out, it's a very different experience than what I thought. But it changed the way I viewed I looked forward to this time and how I went into it for sure. I'm going to pause this gorgeous conversation with Shamli for a few moments to invite you to join us for our live Menopause the Great Awakener course which is starting on November the 3rd. It's for you if you are sensing menopause

courting you if you're in your 40s and feeling your cycle changing and sensing that menopause is on the horizon feeling curious, concerned. It's for you if you're in the middle of the menopause process. It's also for you if you're in the middle of the menopause process it's also for you if you're on the other side of the menopause process and are looking to make sense of your experience you can find out all about the course at redschoolmenopause.com it's a journey through the five phases of the spiritual initiatory process of menopause it's like an embodied process of the wise power book that alexander and shani wrote and published last year you get lifetime access to it when you join so there are people that come back again and again year after year such a beautiful experience

you can find out all about it and take your seat at redschoolmenopause.com and we start on November the 3rd. As you've mentioned your body's changing how has this initiatory process of menopause how have you experienced it through your body how is your experience of your body different yeah yeah the period itself the like when i was in it was very uh very challenging i had anxiety for the first time since i was a teen waking up in a night you know physically it was very intense it's interesting because I I'm not sure when my menopause journey started and when it like ended you know with the bleeding I actually had my last bleeding in a in the Kali temple in India that's very fitting isn't it and that was like one year after I had stopped bleeding and I did a was in ceremony with the women in a small Kali temple in India.

And I was bleeding for that one day and that I could offer it to the goddess. And that was like, so perfect completion. And then it was very, yeah, I had a lot of challenges with my body. And now I feel, I feel very good in my body. I feel very balanced. Like there's a new mothering online in me in terms of I'm really living in the rhythms that feel good to me. And that is quite antisocial in the sense that I, I like to go to bed like before eight o'clock and then I wake up, you know, before five o'clock and my body is in bliss. When I, if I have that sleep before midnight, I wake up in bliss. I just, this is like the

best thing I can do for my body. And of course it's a little bit hard to have a social life that way, but I choose to prioritize that for myself right now. And I work, you know, I do exercises, I dance, I, you know, I work, I do weight training, I dance twice a week. I feel very good, very balanced in my body. And I notice it. That's like like I said I wake up every day like oh it's peaceful it's that sense of I am so aware of the contrast of how it felt like with when my nervous system was in this kind of activation and so out of balance and this feeling when things are actually when nervous system is regulated it's just it's it's it's bliss it really is so i'm just like i say thank you a million times a day

yeah and the aging part you know the aging part it's so clear to me that how i feel about my body or my looks if i feel old or not is all a state of consciousness 100 it's nothing objective about it because it can change like i feel beautiful or i feel old and have dry and gray it's just a shift of consciousness 100 so i don't take it so seriously actually yeah it's empowering to to notice that and to be aware of that because it means that you don't have to kind of go into a frenzy of trying to change the appearance we know that if it comes from the same state of consciousness it doesn't matter if you're young or old or like you know when i look at younger people now all young people are so beautiful, you know, like everyone. So it's just ridiculous that any young person would feel like self-conscious or judging their looks because it's just ridiculous.

It's just ridiculous. And it's the same, isn't it? Beauty, it's also a state of consciousness. Beauty is a consciousness more than any specific object that we call beautiful. It really is a state of consciousness. You know, and those of us who have been in circle, we have such a strong transmission about that. When we begin to wash our eyes clean and we come in contact with our deeper self,

we begin to perceive beauty. And we see the miracle of each woman and each form and each age and each look it's there's there's beauty there's just beauty there's no it's not trapped in any specific definition of beauty yeah oh i could wish for one thing it would be that every single woman gets a chance to feel that transmission the whole story that the patriarchal society has put on us around beauty it's such bullshit yes oh i feel liberated to hear you speak can we speak about this love because when when you're in conversation with alexandra you said um that you're experiencing this kind of love that you've never experienced for yourself before you've you've spoken about it in this conversation with alexandra you said um that you were experiencing this kind of love that you'd

never experienced for yourself before you've you've spoken about it in this conversation with the compassion but you had this hunger for yourself and you described this moment it was during it was your 50th birthday i think you said i think it was your birthday and you went to hawaii and you gifted yourself this time by yourself in hawaii and you were with the dolphins for these couple of weeks and there was and it was kind of a honeymoon with yourself can you tell us about this because this was so yeah it was incredible it was also like a it was the pause from the war it was a sense of coming back to myself, nourishment.

And it was a sense of this, so much had fallen apart already then. But it was also this sense of newfound curiosity of, oh, if I'm not playing that role, what is here then? Like, what was it that I left behind when I was a small child moving into this role what was it that I was leaving behind so it I have been speaking about that layers of that was this innocence and beauty. And it was this very intimate sense of me that came online that was like, oh, what do I want? And it was these three weeks in Hawaii was just a date between me and me in that sense of bliss. Wow. And I, you know, I went down by sunrise every morning, you know, and the dolphins came in. Sometimes I got to swim

with them all alone, just me and the dolphins. And it was just the most amazing, amazing. It was like a honeymoon with me. It's such a curiosity about me. Like, what is, what is me deeper than these roles? And of course, my, like I said, my whole life has been about that, but there was, I was coming down into such a simplicity. It's the very very simple simplicity within me where things are very very clear and very very innocent very magical very creative very tender uh very receptive um lucid perception you know really seeing colors then, you know, so I was in this place and, and I remember my son, Shuba, he called me and he never called me. He was my stepson and he called me, he, you know, he, he didn't do that a lot, but he called me when I was there and he had made baklava with his girlfriend and

I remember I was so happy I was picking up and he showed me this baklava and then three weeks later he died so I was like in this bliss honeymoon finally starting to kind of regulate a little bit after and then it was almost like goddess kind of filled up my well for another round and that was the worst one yet yeah the one i was just um yeah where everything you know was down into the darkest darkest darkest of the dark so all of it all of it all of it all of it all of it all of it when you were speaking about that that lucid seeing another thing that Alexander was that now you're experiencing a lot more on the subtle realms in your practice and in your work or you're working more in the subtle realms like your relationship to your dharma and your calling has changed quite profoundly and a lot more is

happening I think you mentioned with your ancestors and yeah could you speak to this the shift into the subtle that's happened happening happened for you yes I have always I've always worked in the subtle there's more and a subtle that I mean also when you spoke about the full spectrum of feelings like the way I you know the kind of the landscape that i kind of practice in is to establish our awareness in the full spectrum from fullnessness to form so that we really not as a belief or a concept a felt sense of the wholeness of who we are and what we are made of and what god and the divine is so a lot of the work has to do with receiving and ascending the formlessness into form. So we kind of weave presence into form, into our feelings, into body.

And after practicing, you know, so long like this, the way I teach and share is happening, of course, through words and action. But my consciousness is like, it's as if my words and actions are waves that comes out of an ocean. And a lot of my presence and work is in the ocean. It's like in that kind of more vast sense of self and then bringing that into form. And from there, I access kind of the deeper, the root system also of the work that is on the visible surface. And I see that, oh, a lot of my work is, of course, to serve to the circle and create these spaces for women

to retrieve their own intimacy with goddess. And I also see that, oh, this healing work that I'm doing within me, that is continuously, I'm constantly, like I work with my mentor, she's giving me session, like we are, I'm doing work all the time, never finished. It's like, once you have an access to yourself that is bigger than your soap opera of me and my story, traditionally, that would be kind of a way to begin to push away the personal self. The goddess path is all about weaving, weaving, weaving all the parts into a whole wholeness.

And I see that, yes, there's's benefits i've touched many people's lives but also behind me in my ancestral lineage there's thousands of women who are healed and changed by the healing work that i'm doing because i am you, if you think about my life as a thread in a big web, yeah, and I'm touching you and you are touching me. And then that web goes back in time and, you know, into future. So that when I kind of change, if I kind of break a trance, I stop a behavior, something that ends with me. I see through illusions. I see, I wake up from, oh, patterns that it was given to me. That whole thread kind of snaps and it kind of loosens up all the way back in time. So sometimes I have a feeling that in one way, all of this work that I'm doing may just be for, first of all, it could just be for this soul incarnation as for me, my purpose is to heal this. And then also the women and men,

of course, my whole ancestral lineage, I do a lot of work because that is also a lot of people. It's not like that is a kind of an individual, my little thing. It's like, yes. And of course, also now when we are living in this time where there's so much, on the surface, so much horror and warfare and division and opinions of who can contribute the most and the best way. And we are all a little confused of how to do that. I'm seeing more and more the importance of also taking a stand for the invisible work,

for the subtle work, because that's just like what we see in the physical realm is just the surface of something much it's like a bigger root system and wherever we have skills to contribute we you know we should it's like we are invited to take leadership of our thread how can i best contribute and in my life i have spent my whole life training myself to be awake and subtle. So that's where I do the most powerful work right now. Yeah. Wow. Well, that changes things.

Feeling I often feel people who listen to this podcast a lot will know that I often feel my grandmother Enid my Welsh grandmother behind me and to know that my practice is benefiting her you know this being who gave so much love to me that changes things for me quite profoundly because you think about it Edith and all the women before her they gave birth to Sophie Sophie. They gave birth to you into this lineage and you with your skills and your, of course, your limitation, everything, but your platform and your passion. And so, of course, they watch it like, yeah, you know know they got your back and finally someone breaking the patterns yeah when you when you uh feel that trigger in you when you're you know your kid is you know so wild and full of energy and you feel that trigger of like oh we're not we don't do that yeah we're not allowed and then you hold yourself and you notice

and you mother yourself. And then all back in your lineage, that's like, yes. Yeah, because that's that pattern there, that trigger and damping of the aliveness that didn't start with you. That is something that all of those were trapped in. Yeah, it's like, oh, that's how we should,

we have to keep them safe. They have to fit into the patriarchy we have to dim their light we have to so when you just have one little glimpse of noticing that little glimpse is is light into that whole trance it's like I can feel the people listening uh relaxing because what I keep hearing is it's trying to do this deep work that menopause is calling and then just demanding that we do alongside everything else that we're tending to in life and these big goals that we're striving towards because this hustle grind culture is just perpetually and I could it's like I can feel everyone going oh good I have permission for it to be for this healing here to be what it is for it to be enough isn't the right word but it's i can i can feel a kind of permission and like because you see that that thought system that consciousness that says

oh like which i also had adopted is this like you have to serve the world you have to serve everybody else um which is something i'm passionate about of course we should contribute in all of these things and then it's this thing that oh if you focus on you that's too small or that's like a selfish thing or like you said it's not maybe it's not enough all of that is part of the patriarchy that is that is part of the trance we try to be free of so when you know that's what you are hearing from me and so many who have gone through menopause is this, when all of that falls apart, you begin to see things for what they are. In Norse mythology, we have the trolls, the fairy tales, the trolls.

And the trolls, they have these monsters and they have so much power, but what they don't tolerate is sunlight. If the sunlight shines on them, they pop. And those are those illusions we have, you see, that they are only real until we see them for what they are so what happens is and this is oftentimes kicking and screaming through menopause but we are then forced to we just fall into ourself and then we have to go through all of those layers is this even allowed is this even healthy is this now am i greedy or selfish or like we have

to go through all of that stuff but there's no way to not do it yeah because you're kind of forced in there and then you begin and then you begin to land in the place and the other side of that you begin to see that there's nothing selfish about all of a sudden you you you you land in in a truer and more undeniable connection with all things. Through landing into a deeper intimacy and truth with yourself, you are initiated into a totality and interdependence and a web and a contribution, a longing to contribute that comes from a completely different place, which has to include yourself.

Because that kind of service to humanity, if it excludes you, you know, and that's kind of the trap of that mindset, that it creates division. It creates a separation where you are left out. And those part of you, there are parts of you that it's gonna not like that. And then they start to create resentments and expectations and all stuff in the shadow. And that's where we live in the drama that is actually self-created a lot of the times

by our unwillingness to come into just needing what we need and to come into honesty with what actually we want. Because, oh, want, oh, no, oh. And then once we do, once we're forced to do it, we land all of a sudden in a tremendous generosity that will never even consider to leave myself out of that generosity like it comes out of me being like mama is home in this building and she got me and she takes care of me. She's going to guard me. She's going to prioritize me. She loves me the most because she comes through this.

She loves you the most when she comes through you. She is 100% going to prioritize my desires, my joy. And what happens in that all of a sudden, like we speak about filling our inner cup it's not only to just take a bath sometimes or yeah now i feel a little bit more energy now i can leave myself again and serve no it's the fill you you land in the cosmic cup that you know because you are willing to, I mean, willing or not willing, you're forced to land into deeper intimacy with your own beautiful human self. And then that's the wholeness that goddess speaks about. It's such a paradox.

We think we're going to find her in kind of transforming our neediness or like become more shiny or something and then it's just all true kind of a sticky descent into the kind of uncomfortable clumsy little desires and need and then and then that becomes a window It becomes a door where you land in. I can have the true nourishment if I'm not only willing to be present with all of me and to come into honesty. It becomes so simple. So simple. The dark goddess was devouring you, devouring, devouring until it kind of just became you and then this new holding rose up it's this yeah yeah yeah yeah mama's in the building mama is home

and it's it's it keeps going it keeps going just just yesterday I had you know I was doing a whole process again where there was another layer of neediness that I just didn't want to you know now I'm feeling so good I feel and then it was like I was pulled into another layer of integration and again every time I do like I have this mentor, and she's just so provocative in a sense that she guides me into my desire and neediness. And I kick and scream and it's like, oh no, I don't do that. Like I serve the goddess. And she holds me through all of that.

And then every time I trust her and I land through those layers. I land in a tremendous power, generosity, energy, and simplicity and peace. It's like that kind of, I think that, oh, if I come closer to this feeling, I'm just going to be selfish. I'm going to, you know, but it's always through whatever we resist the most. It's actually the door to what we most want. It's an adventure, isn't it? We won't get bored. Chamalee, if people listening are loving this and would like to connect with you more what's the best way for them to do that uh awakening women plural

awakeningwomen.com that's where everything is happening i also have a podcast living goddess podcast found find it on every podcast platform and then it's also awakening women on instagram and facebook yeah i have every intention of seeing you in corfu next year if it's happening yes come um we have this luscious retreat we have had it i think it's going to be the 18th year or i guess it was we had two years break with the pandemic but it's been an adventure we meet every summer for summer ashram in on the greek island of corfu so if anybody yeah you're warmly welcome to come there and of course if sophie is there we all are going to be there. So everyone, let's go. Thank you so much for inviting me, love. Yeah, it's been a total delight.

We'll keep documenting this evolution. Thank you so much. Much love. thank you so much for joining us we would love to have you with us for menopause the great awakener you can find out about it at redschoolmenopause.com we start on november the 3rd and i'll be with you again next week and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm