The Menstruality Podcast - 138. Indigenous Cycle Wisdom and Menstrual Rituals (Dr Cre Dye)

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

When Dr Cre Dye was in her early 20s, she began to feel called to explore the power of her cycle - or as she describes it, her moon, flowers and power. Over our series of two conversations, we’re exploring the cycle wisdom she has learned, unearthed and received over the last three decades through the lens of her relationships with her two Grandmothers; today her Granny of hidden First Nations descent, and in part two, her African American Mama. Dr Cre Dye has served her local, national, and international communities with heart, mind and body activism for over 25 years as a mental health therapist, yoga teacher / trainer and university professor. She is also part of the Red School team as our Menstruality Justice and Inclusion Educator, facilitating inner change for social change on our Menstruality Leadership Programme, supporting us all to work with the power of the cycle in a way that is just and inclusive.We explore:Why women gathered together in Moon Lodges, in many indigenous cultures to listen for the dreams of bleeding women, and how Cre has followed this lead to embody the sacred through her cycle and her body. A wide range of indigenous menarche rituals, including the Anishinaabe rite of passage known as the Berry Fast, the Navajo Kinaalda ceremony and the Hupa Flower Dancers coming-of-age ceremonies.What Cre has learned from her research about how to honour and trust her menstruating body, and guide her clients to honour the moon cycle. ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyDr Cre Dye: @credyeyoga - https://www.instagram.com/credyeyoga

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. This conversation, this topic today is one that many of you have requested that we explore.

I'm in conversation with Dr. Cree Dai. When she was in her early 20s, she began to feel a call to explore the power of her cycle, or as she describes it, her moon, flowers, and power. And over our series of two conversations, we're going to be exploring the cycle wisdom that she's learned, unearthed, received over the last three decades through the lens of her relationships with her two grandmothers today her granny of hidden first nations descent and in part to her african-american mama so dr creed i has served her local national and international communities for over 25 years as a mental health therapist a yoga teacher teacher, trainer, and a university professor. She's also now part of the Red School team as our menstruality justice and inclusion educator, facilitating inner change for social change on our menstruality leadership program and supporting all of us to

work with the power of the cycle in a way that is just and inclusive. So today's conversation includes why women gathered together in moon lodges in indigenous cultures, a wide range of indigenous menarche rituals, and what Cree has learnt from her research into indigenous menstrual practices about how to honour and trust her own menstruating body. And we kick off the conversation talking about navigating the time of changing cycles in the run-up to menopause particularly in relationships with our partners i've been looking forward to this specific conversation because you and i talk about a lot of things i feel very blessed i'm excited sister before we begin to explore yeah your indigenous learnings about menstruality let's start with a cycle check-in and love to hear

where you're at in your cycle now oh thank you for asking I um I am on day 16. And even though it's my summer sister, my summers have been after ovulation and after because I'm like premenopausal, like just moving into that. They're just very different for me. So as I experienced them, I just you know what, I take it day by day because I'm like, huh, what what you doing today girl so yeah day 16 is even though it's summer it feels like I feel tender and deep in truth about that like just really like deeply embedded in just truth those are the words that are coming up for me what about you yeah thanks for asking I feel in a similar place day 23 which historically for me has been the trickiest day of my cycle when emotions run high and yeah characteristically I did have a everything is terrible moment earlier with aid and then I'm just gonna congratulate myself because I made real progress because 10 minutes later I phoned him up and I said hey I was obnoxious just

then and I'm really sorry and I threw all my stress at you and I'm on day 23 and I love you and I'm sorry he said oh I love you all the time. He said, Well, what about, Hey, since what about some serious evolving there? Yes. They have evolved. Serious evolution. Serious. And also I'm just, I have a dear, dear sister. Whose sister has just died suddenly. And it was two weeks ago. And now as I'm coming into my inner

autumn I'm just feeling it in that next way and this morning the tears were just flowing with her for her and it's I'm really inside what what happens when death crashes into our lives and brings everything into focus. And I just keep hugging Artie tighter. And when I'm not premenstrually shouting at aid, hugging aid tighter. And might I encourage you when I, when I'm with groups of people and someone has transitioned, we chant a call to support their, their selves, their souls moving through levels of

consciousness it's so it is so it's holding it holds you as you chant a call so sister i will chant a call for you today with you um for this sister of yours and um thank you for sharing that thank you for sharing that with me you know we get we get so intimate in these conversations and then it just feels really meaningful for us to know what's actually moving in our worlds especially the big pieces and I feel everyone listening like we're we're such a community I feel like we're so close-knit and welcome if you're listening and you're new welcome in we're family we're family yeah just before we um get into the topic too i wanted to ask you a bit about this pre-menopausal journey because you have spoken

about it a couple of times with me and how is it different from when you had a more regular cycle what are the main sort of themes going on for you with it? Thank you for asking. Some of the main themes that I've seen is that, Sister Sophie, I've always been full of energy, ready to go on, you know, and I usually, I've never been a person that naps or I've never been a person that just kind of struggles with anxiety or fear.

So those are the things that I'm seeing that are showing up for me is just, I need a nap, like even we finish today, I got to go. I call it my of awakening. And I know that it has to do with just, I'm just, I'm evolving and awakening to this new, amazing woman, you know? So it's like, that's kind of how I'm experiencing it. And I'm like, oh, this is different, you know? So as I'm experiencing this and my cycle days have been different, like my last one, it was, she came at 21 days and I was just like, whoa. And she came heavy. Like I've never experienced her like that. And so I'm just, I'm just taking it in each day at a time. Just like, Oh, hello, new lady. Hello sister. And it's funny. Cause I think about, I've always joked to my husband about

him being married to like seven different wives. Cause I've been seven different women and I'm like, man, you might have three more wives after yeah he's he's so patient with me but I'm like after this there may be three more women that you have met and he's like I'm ready for all of them so it feels good it feels good do you feel met by him oh I will say this like it depends on what woman is showing up yeah how about that Sophie it depends on what woman is showing up you know because sometimes the woman that's showing up she she doesn't feel met by anyone except herself I said to aid earlier look hon when I'm like, I just need you to hug me. And he said, love, it's not so easy to get to you when you're like that.

Especially when you're like that. Right. So I can relate. My husband has told me the same. And I say, well, fight for me. You know, right. Come on, warrior. We'll just take it. You know, I'm just like, who is she today? You know, this whoever she is like who is she today? You know, this, whoever she is, like she'll, she'll probably be gone tomorrow. And how long is it that you've been with your cycle, like consciously connecting to your cycle? What, where did that begin?

You know, what's funny as I go and I look back, especially as I dove into the research and the literature, just the studies that I've been in, I feel like I've always, like, I remember my first bleed and I remember being so happy with her and just kind of journaling about it and talking about it to myself, even though I didn't grow up in a community that supported that, like everything was like, hide it, put it away, you know, like my aunties and everyone would tell me things like that. But I think as I started to study it as a therapist, it really it's funny because I say that it calls me. I say that it has called me back to myself. Like I didn't necessarily go looking for it. It called me sister. So it was like Grandmother Moon was calling me. Right. Mother Earth was calling me right mother earth was calling me so I would say maybe um where I really got conscious was my early 20s and I'm 40 I'll be 49 this year and so we've been together a long time talking

directly to each other I would say yes and I'm still learning and I'm learning every day more about her more about just conscious menstruation it's just so much goodness right so much goodness oh yes I'm about 13 years in and this yeah it just keeps on growing keeps on spiraling keeps on deepening when so when you were in your 20s was it then that you were called to explore the indigenous menstrual practices and rituals? When did that come in? Oh, let me tell you. So I was thinking about this and I was sitting with it and I like to dream into it.

The indigenous practices came about with me trying to understand me. Okay. So trying to understand me as I became a therapist and always have had a heart and a desire for people and understanding people. So in an attempt to help others kind of find themselves to recover and come back, because I started in recovery, working with those in recovery from addiction in my early twenties to help them come back home to themselves. I found another very important person calling me Sophie Jake. And it was me. It was me calling me. Right. And so I remember just sitting with that just as a woman, like wanted to know me and just really wanted to be aware. And I started writing down just like who I am. So I remember feeling like I was born into two ethnic cultures, right? I was born in two ethnic cultures, but really birthed in three. So, and there being very different ethnic cultures, African descent, European descent, and then hidden first nation descent, right? I was born into two

socioeconomic cultures, but really birthed from three, a lower socioeconomic class, a middle slash upper socioeconomic class, and a hidden and stolen poverty, you know, really low poverty class. And then two religious cultures, Catholic and then Baptist, and then this hidden indigenous spirituality that my grandmother always talked about. And so in that desire to find me, I started looking at all these, you know, spaces of me, parts of me, and kind of dreaming into who I am and just how I really was born into different worlds. And that's kind of how, and one big one was the male, the masculine and the feminine, specifically in that going to church and just always hear, Sophie J, this started as a little girl though, not in my twenties, just always hearing about he, he, he, he, you know, I

remember thinking about, well, I'm a she and I need to hear about her. And so that really took me into my relationship with learning more about just the woman in a feminine and especially indigenous practices from my grandmother who didn't, she didn't know a lot about it because she wasn't raised in it. But you know, that inner knowing was always in her. So she would just tell me stories about how I, I need to know how to dream, right? And how I need to know how to imagine, and just believe in things that other people don't believe in. She would tell me things like that, Sophie J. And I remember feeling like, so that gives me permission to go, to go look in places that, that are not encouraged to go look. So I

feel like that was a calling to me. Think about when you go, you go look in places that are like taboo or places you don't go look, it's calling you. I just had to come to believe like this is calling me. Like I didn't want to think about this, but it called me. So I'm going to go answer the call. So I think my blood, my moon, I call myself sometimes the way I describe it is moon, flowers, and power, right? So this moon, flowers, and power has always been calling me. And I just learned to listen and respond. Moon, flowers, and power. Yes. And I'll tell you, like, I call it the moon, flowers, and power. It's like the moon is my cycle. And when I talk about flowers, I always, I tell my, I even tell,

I tell young women, I tell people to be excited about their flowers, or I call them our flowers or our blessings. We've been socialized to think it's this nasty place, like don't touch your vagina, and just all of these different stories that we hear. And I call them flowers. And I tell my husband all the time, I'm like, I think my flowers are blooming or the flowers are coming out. I talk about the flowers. Flowers are beautiful. So why would we make it this ugly, nasty thing when it's beautiful? Like these flowers are just ready to be appreciated. Yes, there really are those of us

who are called to the flowers, right? Aren't there? Yes. Same for me. I was always, I couldn't believe that no one was pointing out the fact that it was he he he he everywhere and that took me into okay well what's going on in my body that's different for all the

he bodies and that took me on my journey to my flowers so yes can we talk about your grandmamas yes because when you and I were dreaming into this conversation, we realized it's actually two conversations that we're going to have. So this is part one. Because there's a menstruality or a menstrual wisdom path that you've gone on called by both of your grandmothers. And your African-American grandmama, you felt called to explore menstruality for Black women.

What's happening? Yes. Black women's bodies and their menstrual cycles and their menstruality. So in part two of our conversation, we're going to explore this research and these studies that you've done. These stories, these beautiful stories yes and that's coming yes and today your indigenous grandmother who passed as white yes so she my granny I call her granny she's since passed on and I chanted a call and she transitioned. Yes. And she, her great, her grandmother,

her mother's mom was First Nation Cherokee and her mother was half First Nation. Both of them, both women were put in mental institutions. I guess that's my great, great grandmother to be separated from yourmother, to be separated from your land, to be separated from your people, your practices, your ways of knowing, easily back then you would go mad, right? And so she was put in a mental institution, and they called them asylums or institutes back then. And then my granny's mom as well was put in an institution. And so my granny grew up half white, well, partially white and First Nation, and she just passed as a white woman. And you think about, especially on this land, like Turtle Island and, you know, the North

America or the United States specifically, just how it, the vulnerability of being a person of color in any way, the challenges and the vulnerability and the lack of belonging that was associated with that. It definitely was for survival that I'm sure she worked in her life as a white woman yeah and still she brought you these invitations around dreaming always knowing how to dream knowing how to imagine yes was it that call that called you into exploring going into this indigenous research I absolutely know like when I sat into who I am Sophie J especially in my early 20 Like when I sat into who I am, Sophie J, especially in my early twenties, when I sat into like stories that granny would tell me about leaving and going to these different worlds. And when I sat with my first, like I trained under Dr. Leslie Gray.

She's a, she's a counselor, but she calls it eco-psychology, where she's a shaman, as well as a healer, and also a counselor from the Oneida, the Powhatan, and Seminole people. And I studied under her, and in it, this is what I found, sister, that my granny had always been telling me about these different worlds, these dreams. And she'd talk about leaving her body and seeing herself, and just all these stories. My granny talked like that, which at that time, you know, to someone, they say, Oh, she's crazy. Right. So her, she got these stories from her mother and her mother's mother. And so just learning more when I studied under Dr. Leslie Gray, learning more about just the three worlds, like the upper, the middle and the lower world, and then taking these

journeys. And so this was early 20s. I remember just, I would go into these journeys, and just really in awe at like how this called me. It's a long journey of how I got connected to Dr. Leslie Gray. But the story she shared in the experience that I got in it was just another version of what granny had told me but granny didn't use that language you know that direct language but granny had already knew how to do that already knew how to dream and go into these different worlds I already knew how to do that Sophie J it was always there it was always there. It was always there. So yeah, just granny always told me stories. And so when I started looking at, like I studied under Dr. Leslie Gray, then I stuck to study with Dr. Ruby Gibson and specifically just started reading all these, these great, these great women and their

stories. Like there's a, there's one of my favorite books is called Moontime Prayers and it's by Cindy Gaudette. And it is the cutest. It is, I was thinking about writing a grant to have every little girl that's about to greet her cycle to experience this book with her mom because it's just such a beautiful journey into the process of having a relationship

with your moon, your flowers, and your power. So there's just all these authors, and I've always been like addicted to books, and addicted to reading, and literature, and I just dove in. I mean, I dove in, and I'm in love with every single piece. It all weaves together, and it's just beautiful that I get to be a part of bringing it bringing it back out or extending it out because if you think about who actually knows this like granny didn't tell me to go share it and spread it but granny told me right so it's the storytelling which has always been there this beautiful process of storytelling yes I think I was called to that I think my spirit was called to the sharing and the stories yeah and I love how you say you know it was a long journey to get to Leslie Gray and I knew it

already from my grandmother and it's a reminder of the calling we keep calling and we'll take all kinds of paths and we'll get to the place that is the place for us to be yes so what stories would you love to share with us about this indigenous menstrual wisdom what what's speaking up for you to be shared here in this space? Even now, as I study with Shani and Alexandria, and I just listen and I'm in awe with them when they share the practices of this, the menstruality leadership and just the creativity. Do you know, sister, that I just come back to like, there's nothing new under the sun. Like this practice is within all of us and has been within us. And thank you, Shani and Alexandria, for waking it back up in all of us. Right.

So specific things about just reconnecting with the sacredness. Right. And this being a gift as as a woman connecting us to our power and then how moon lodges and the story of moon lodges and how we as women would go. And as we go there, it really is prayer. And how this is one of my favorite things that I learned is that like being socialized in the Catholic and Baptist, prayer meant bow your head, palms together, head down, you know, and don't look up, don't let those eyes creep up. But prayer is dancing, writing, you know, prayer is anything that you're creating with. And so like, those are some of the things that just affirmed me as a woman.

And that's just as my humanity gets to live. And just some of the rituals, the beauty of the rituals that when a girl like it always was about coming back for most tribes, for most tribes. Bleeding is this process of benefiting not just her, but the people around the community. Oh, here's one of my favorites. it's those in the Mayan culture so during her bleed she would um she would um dream and then during her bleed she would dream and everyone would come sit and listen to the dreams because it they came to find that every dream was specific to somebody listening isn't that beautiful what if we brought girls back to this place of dreaming and how the alone time when we are in our bleed, that alone time is there to strengthen us, to help us, you know, earthwalk better, to help us to forgive. And so that in this process of

giving our, our, just our, our pain to mother earth, we give it to her so she can handle it. And then we can go back out and not hurt ourselves or anyone else. You know, like these are some of the things that I've learned through my journey of like how to be, how to be deeply connected to who I am and my indigenous way of knowing who I was before the world started telling me who I needed to be. This was who she was, all of these things that I found. You've said so much and I'd love to focus in on a few parts of the blanket that you've woven there for us firstly starting with the the sacred and prayer as as life as movement as body as blood as woman how has that been for you in your life was that a process of opening up? Was there, were there, were there blocks in you? How was it to undo, undo the childhood of prayer with heads, head bowed and hands together?

It makes me think about some of the early days of when I first decided that I'm not going to bow my head and put my hands together, even before we eat. You know, it makes me think about like if all these other ways of being is prayer. Like, why, why do I need to do what everybody else is doing when prayer is unique to me? And it makes me think about those early days where, you know, I would just it basically would be like I would be shunned. Why would you lift your head or your eyes? And so just when I started to say like dancing or when I sing, when I sing, like I am glorifying the universe. Like when I am in my car and I'm shouting and I'm singing, my voice is just expanding out like this to me is prayer. This is me bringing life to my life and giving life. So isn't that what prayer essentially is? So as I transitioned

into these different ways of knowing that I could pray, I transitioned more into myself, sister. Right? Like these are the things I wanted to do, but he told me when I would bow my head, he told me to put my head down. So just the prayer and every thought is a prayer and how it brings me back to my inner wisdom of knowing myself and not questioning myself and not trusting myself. Right. All of that brings me back to my own inner knowing. And it's a it was like it had to become a practice for me to start to trust myself hey I'm just going to pause the podcast for a moment to share some resources so throughout this episode Cree shares a wealth of resources afterwards she actually emailed me a list of articles and books and research and I've added all of the links that she actually emailed me a list of articles and books and research,

and I've added all of the links that she sent to me onto the podcast page, which you can find at redschool.net forward slash podcast, and look out for episode 138 if you'd like to go deeper with any of this. On the page, I share links to articles about Mayan menstrual dreaming practices, the Anishinaabe rite of passage known as the berry or strawberry fast, and the Navajo Menakee ritual of running towards the sun that Cree is going to go on to explain next in the conversation, and so much more. And if you'd like to explore more indigenous menstrual knowledge, I really recommend listening to episode 87 of this podcast where I spoke with Hinewai Waitoa about the magic of Maori menstrual wisdom and rituals. She shares about how she's preparing her daughter for her menarche rite of passage and also the traditional practice of creating a kete ikura, which is a menstrual cycle basket and also episode 63 with Asha Frost who is an Anishinaabe Ojibwe woman

who lives in so-called Canada it's such a rich and beautiful exploration of the connection between cycle wisdom and the unique medicine that we each hold okay back to the conversation with Cree such a journey such a journey for all of us to turn away from the authorities that give us the stamp of approval outside and just keep turning into trust ourselves, trust ourselves, trust ourselves. I mean, it feels that this was implicit in your granny's teaching was you need to learn how to dream, how to imagine imagine and I think it feels like that's both a journey to trust and also requires trust to be able to let ourselves have that kind of intimacy within and I love what you said about these authorities and these voices right I'll tell you a story about

my granny she used to tell me this all the time because she was a pianist I mean a great pianist she traveled for a while before she became a mother and she told me how once motherhood came upon her she had to step away from her pian like traveling and being a pianist and playing with some really famous names and she would tell me how she would always say, don't ever let them tell you that you can't do these things and take what you love away from you. Like playing the piano was granny's prayer. I mean, she'd get on there and I mean, oh my gosh, granny would play and play. No matter what emotion was present, the piano would help her process and move things. So playing the piano was granny's prayer. And she always would tell me as a woman, don't let them turn off who you are. Like, don't let them take your light. And don't

she, I mean, she would say this, don't let being a mother take you away from yourself. Because she would say that her coming into motherhood, especially during the time that she did, it wasn't, it wasn't acceptable for a woman to be out, you know, traveling without her husband and the children at home because she tried that. And I remember my uncles, my aunts and uncles and my dad, they would talk about how granny would be gone. and then it got to a point where it just wasn't socially acceptable so granny had to end her career and it felt she said it often felt like she ended herself wow yes I always call her my fire granny like my granny had fire and so it seemed like as she was raising like I would spend so so much time Granny. It seemed like she was just like pouring that fire into me for me to go live it out. And as I think about like what our moon cycles represent in indigenous cultures, it is really

the teaching of the grandmothers, the aunties and the women pouring into, you know, the young women on how to go live out. And I just feel like that was granny's way of saying, like, you go live that out. You go be all that you were created to be. And she did used to say that she used to say, don't ever let the decisions around what a man wants decide for you, who you are, what you need to do. And I think I pretty much lived it pretty well. Your story is just making me remember how blessed we are many of the women in our world not all of the women in our world to be able to have the freedom that we've got to be able to make the choices that we make around families around

Korea and how our grandmothers I mean are they just not looking on and saying, and with such pride and joy to see how fulfilled we can be now compared to perhaps, well, pretty much all of their lives were channeled in a way that took away their freedom because of the societal structures. Yes. And I think about that a lot for, for both of my families, not just my granny and her indigenous ways and knowings, but for my Black family as well. I can't wait to talk about that because I think about when I look at me and what has been calling me, I feel like it's all just, it's always been there calling all of us and just how the external can certainly impact us heeding that call. You know, your environment or your climate or your context can certainly

affect that. And I always think about, especially for my other grandmother, who would she have been had she been born into a different time? Same for granny. If granny had been born into a different context, how would that fire woman have shown up? And it brings me inspiration to live her out because I think about just the, you know, the voices, her voice in my bones or her song in my womb. You know, like I think about I get to go live that out. So why would I take this day for granted? I must not. I mustn't take this day for granted I must go live it out for all my grandmothers yes I feel shivers throughout my whole body it's so true so true okay I want to pick up another thread yeah around the moon lodges because I know a

lot of people in our community well I'm thinking back to a conversation I had with Dr. Lara Owen and she wrote a book the first the first book I ever read and I'm spacing on the name now about the blood is gold there she's waving it in my face her blood is gold blood is gold and she did some research with a few different indigenous cultures and brought some teachings through about the moon lodges and so you know some of us have heard and I'm curious to hear about what you've read about menstrual practices practices of women gathering together to bleed and to listen and to dream so absolutely and it was always a gathering to come and to listen and to dream. Oh, absolutely. And it was always a gathering to come and strengthen and to listen. So the Europe people, so they felt like they absolutely

needed to isolate because they were at the height of their power. So they couldn't waste their power on just like, and you know, the Europe peoplek people specifically, and Dr. Laura, she talks about this, how the Yurok people specifically would say, you don't waste it. And this, I don't want this to sound like bashing, but you just don't waste it with the man. You don't waste that type of powerful time with the man. Like it is a distraction or it's like a mundane task to interact with men. Like you are at the height of your power. So just the Yurok people. And so even any time they would come together in the moon lodges, it always was a respected time. It was a time of important value to know what we are going to do, not just for ourselves, but for the

tribes. So say there was a movement we needed to make or somewhere we needed to go. And there were always like these rituals around it. So for example, the, it's not T people. They learned at their bleed to build TPs because it was, it was told that you should be able as a young woman now moving into your adulthood, you should be able to provide your own shelter. Like you should be able to shelter yourself, but that was just symbolism of a physical shelter. But now as you're moving into this special time connected to the moon, you also will have spiritual shelter. Like everything will, you have the power to shelter yourself, to cover yourself, right? To hold yourself. Isn't that so good? The other beautiful part about it in those studies of just all of these tribes is it was like we would always like we do now we link up like our cycle so it would be a

group of girls there would always be a group like when the women would go in the moon lodges so i don't know if i told you this i was teaching this to some middle school girls i was doing a lesson on moon cycles with the middle school girls. I was doing a lesson on moon cycles with the middle school girls. And they told me that, and you know, I learned the scientific term, it's like our pheromones, we link up. And so if there's women in the house, we all bleed at the same time. And so the middle school girls told me this, they said, oh, that's Bluetoothing. You did tell me, I love it. oh, that's Bluetoothing. They said that, oh, that's Bluetoothing. So even when young girls would come into their bleed, they would Bluetooth. Let's use these modern technologies.

They would Bluetooth and they would build their shelter together. So those cultures who built teepees, they would build those shelters together. Oh, I'm trying to think of which tribe was it that each morning at her start of bleed, she would get up each morning and each day she'd run towards the sun. Wow. Wait, so she'd run toward the sun and each day of her bleed, she'd run a little further. And so there was an encouragement for a mental and emotional strength, but also this physical strength that was just that it was just within. It was just within. Right. And so it was just she gets to practice that out and show herself. And it really was an honor. It was an honor for these baby girls to just experience like what life had for them. Can you imagine that every morning, Sophie J just getting up and just moving yourself towards the sun. And each day you just go a little further.

Isn't that beautiful? I just think about that, like just getting up and she's preparing herself and then she gets up and she runs and then just being able to be free to say, okay, here's enough for today. And then the next day be free to say okay here's enough for today and then the next day be free to say okay here's a little more she's learning so much in that so much about herself about her capacity about when when to rest how to rest yes yes you want to hear some more please keep going well i think about I'm trying to see which group. Oh, the Hoopa women, they would come together and it would be a public celebration. And when the girls and the elder, the aunties will come together, the aunties would teach them like how to create with their hands. They teach them skills of like creating crafts and things like that.

And so the girls will come together and they'd all created together through prayer songs and just building these skills. And then they'd sell it to the community. And it was like, it was a, it was important. It was an important memorabilia to receive, to get a gift that the girl created while having her first moon time. Yeah. Wow. Yes. Like it meant more than just to her it was for everybody how has it influenced who you are and how you are when you bleed so I think about when I bleed is just I I don't think that there's a time more important. I don't think that there's a time in my month that's more important. And so from these lessons, I feel like I get to live out. Like who I was created to be, like as a woman and my connection to Mother Earth and my connection to grandmother moon like just it's I'm more than just this human

being sitting in an office completing some tasks like I'm more I'm so cosmic right I'm the power of the cosmos arriving as pure intelligence right and utter beauty perfect timing and perfect harmony you know like I'm all these things And that's how I look at my cycle. It's like perfect timing, perfect beauty, perfect harmony. Like all of those things are there. And it's a cosmic experience. So it's not just this like, it's not this simple thing of just going through life. Right?

It's like life is holding me. And that's how I experienced my moon time. Like that's why when I was saying earlier about just being premenopause, like how I'm experiencing it. And every day is different. Like some days I feel a little frustrated and angry. Then I just sit and think about like grandmother, grandmother moon is, is in control or influences these emotions of mine. So let me go talk to her. And this is what my granny would do these are the things that granny would do but it wasn't connected to you know her uh indigenous teachings it's just what she did yeah yes and she taught me to do that you know when you're like saying i am the intelligent

i'm streaming the intelligence of the universe i I can't remember exactly the exact words. The feeling I have is of something in you, your soul, whatever word you want to give to it, running towards the sun as in to the fullness of you, the fullest expression of you or that seed spark of pure beauty and brilliance of goodness that's inside you that's inside all of us like menstruation what it sounds like to me is that menstruation is this opportunity to uh totally um focus on that become that bathe in that yeah yeah but think about and I say this sometimes when I'm teaching Sophie J, how can I, to be in relationship with my body as a woman, this is a part of who I am, or a menstruating body. I want to say that and honor everyone. But as a menstruating body, and that if I have lost trust with it, or it has lost trust with me, how can I truly be whole? Right? And so many of us, our bodies have lost trust with us. And a lot of times that's because of stories given to us, not even anything that we came up with, but stories that have been passed to us. But I have come to find in my research is that, like I told you, and I started

with, it's all been calling me. I believe that, I believe that it's calling all of us. When we have a menstruating body, I believe that our menstruation, our blood is constantly calling us. But a lot of times we just have so much noise, so much much just distractions that's keeping us away and i believe that a connection of our unwellness is related to not being quiet and listening to that call and as as as womb holders or even those that but you know i always say this because energetically even if we get a hysterectomy we get something energetically is still there right so energetically, even if we get a hysterectomy, we get something energetically is still there. Right. So energetically is still there, but just as those womb carriers, like carriers of like, just think about what we, it's like we carry a black hole, you know, life, a dimension, an opportunity to move through dimensions. There is no way we can just think this is biological and not cosmic

as well. Right. And I feel into that. And when I'm working with clients, it has influenced every client that I work with. We integrate some aspect of the moon cycle, whether that's a bleeding body or not, because everyone's interfacing with bleeding bodies. And even in that, I think everyone needs to have awareness of that. So families, when I'm working with couples, we're working with the moon cycle. When I'm working with parents and a daughter or a child and a mom, I want the children to know about their mom's moon cycle and understand her. Because outside of her just being a mother,'s also a human being she's also her own person doesn't that feel good to think about it's so good i get to live it a little bit now

with arty you know we're always talking about periods maybe too much maybe he's getting a bit obsessed i'm not sure because today he said mommy, are you on your period today in the toilet? I said, no. And he said, because if you need it, there were some little bags there that he'd already clocked that he was going to get for me if I was on my period. And he's three. I'm in love with this. Think about that three year old, that baby boy knowing already. My son does it. My son is 18 and he'll say to me sometimes, and I love the way that he can see me. My son can see me. So if I'm a little unsettled or, you know, he could get in the car and he's like, Hey mom, he'll say, well, what day you on? That's information.

How conscious is that to say that to me and to feel like it's not, there's nothing wrong with it. And sometimes he helps me. Sometimes I say, son, thank you for helping me bring me into awareness of me right in this moment. I love it. Because I'm distracted with life and it's getting the best of me. And thank you, son, for bringing me back. I'm just thinking how arty is a he's a moon flowers and power baby because I've been teaching him the correct names for our private parts our genitals and again maybe a little bit too much

because when I picked him up at nursery once he said his the teaching staff were there and he said, Mommy, Mommy, did you bring your vulva? Yes, sweetie. Yes, sweetie, I did. And he said, good, because I've got my penis. That is and think about the trust that his body is receiving, that he's receiving from his body and giving to his body by just acknowledgement. Like think about the trust that's established in all of us. When I acknowledge you, sister, there's a trust that's established. So the same is for our bodies and our body parts. It's like when I acknowledge you, your body's like, oh, thank you. You know, like there's a trust established. But when we want to ignore it or pretend or talk negatively about it or say, you know, I hate it.

So all of that kind of language.culture has put over the menstrual cycle and menopause and the taboo and all of this. I remember a boss telling me many years ago that her husband had found a tampon but wrapped in its packing in her handbag and had gone, and thrown it on the floor. This is how strong the taboo is. You know, it was a perfectly clean, wrapped up piece of cotton. That's all it was. But it's so strong. And, yeah, I've never thought of it in this way that it's about creating new pathways of trust for everyone, for all of us.

Yeah, absolutely. And even just within us, from us, like I constantly think about, I want my body to always trust me and I want to always trust my body. Right. And sometimes I think as I work as a therapist and I work with individuals who have disassociated from their bodies, we go on this journey about what parts of your body have you just really never, ever given attention to or spoken highly of. And for a lot of bleeding bodies, it definitely is their vulva. No, I just already said, but just really, it definitely is their vagina or their cervix or, you know, we can go into that. And it's just like, who, I always say to, I always think about this, like, y'all know that we didn't, as women and as menstruating

bodies, we weren't the ones telling the stories because we would not have talked this way about ourselves. There is no way that I would reference myself this way. And if we had gotten to tell the stories, they definitely would have been different. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So that's what we get to do, sister. I think about me being in these, just coming from these two worlds, I get to go and share in these worlds that I, that I am from and that I'm in. I get to go and be a part of that. And what an honor, you know just I don't it just oh it just I don't have a word to describe how it feels for me there was one other thread I'd love to pick up that you laid down which is what you've learned in your research around teaching the girls we spoke about some of it then with the running

towards the sun but are there other examples that you found of how to pass on this wisdom to our girls and to young menstruators I think that one of the other pieces that I saw so often weaving through each group or, you know, each tribe was just a healthy relationship with herself. And every year of bleeding, she learns to understand her strength and the sacredness of her strength and her physical character, her mental character, and just how necessary it was to stay in community with other women or with other menstruators. And concentrated meditation. Every time you go in, every time you bleed, it was an intentional look at finding purpose of your life and accumulating spiritual energy. And that the blood that's pouring is served to purify you

it served to release pain it served it served so many things and I really wish I could remember sister because I've been in my husband tells me that I forget more than he studies of what he's learned so because I've really been I remember I don't I wish I could reference exactly where I got this story because this was one of the best was that when we talk about the blood like you know how people talk about like in Christianity they talk about the blood of Jesus Christ it's actually the woman's blood that is because you think about everything about the blood it's antibacterial antifungal like we can go down the list right and it about the blood. It's antibacterial, antifungal. Like we can go down the list. Right. And it's the blood, the one blood that is that happens naturally and not due to a trauma.

Or some type of striking or, you know. And so when it was a reference of the blood, the blood saving us, the blood bringing life. I feel like it was in a South American group, like an indigenous group of South America, but the blood was her blood. That's the blood. Like when we talk about the blood and the healing blood and the blood that gives life, it's not the blood of Jesus Christ. And I know this can be uncomfortable. Think about when you get socialized one way and the brain is just like, I got it. I'm holding on to that. Don't you dare tell me something different.

But I'm thinking of that pastor that told you to put your head down and put your hands together. Oh, for sure. And I can definitely recall so many conversations of when I first started to explore anything that wasn't Christian, the, like one of my aunts referenced herself as a Bible, what word does she use? Bible dependent, right? And in the Bible dependence of some people, I have definitely been shunned made to you know communicated as like evil or I'm going to play on the dark side or you know like I can go down the list for so for me to say that the blood is actually the blood of the woman that feels for me personally is so liberating to this little girl that used to say well what about she? And so Sophie Jane is so funny. I remember when my children would go when they, cause you know, growing up, their friends

would take them to Bible study or different things. And I always would tell them now, if they start praying, praying to father, God, you make sure you add pray to father, God, and mother, God, as well. I say, you make sure you whisper dear father god and mother god this is how we rewrite the story yes yes and the story that has been written that's why i said there's nothing new under the sun right the story that has been rewritten and rewritten and rewritten and how does it serve us today it doesn it really serve us does it serve us to only like you think about how we're evolving in our language of him her they how does it serve us to

just say him and her when they are when we think about the spectrum I always think about this like in every part of our human lives the spectrum is accepted when we think about this, like in every part of our human lives, the spectrum is accepted. We think about emotionally, there's an emotional spectrum, you know, people on this end, on this end. When we think about physically, there's definitely a spectrum where we have somebody like extremely physical with this prowess. And then some that, you know, just physically, they don't have a lot of athleticism. So we think about the spectrum in every area but it's like we won't accept that for gender or even like um sexual like we won't accept it and who decided that so the spectrum it is really just an evolving of like i feel like who we are like just the bigness of us sophie j i feel like I've danced everywhere with you today it's been so

beautiful and so many big cosmic menstrual world-changing paradigm shifting ideas and I'm so grateful for the journey you've taken to get to know you and your lineages and for all that you've unearthed and yeah awoken in us today I feel really moved and I feel altered I'm grateful I'm grateful to your grandmothers to your granny and we'll hear about what how what do you call your for my other grandma so granny that's my white and indigenous granny and then my other grandma and it's very common in black culture especially in the U.S. Sophie J that the black grandma because it's very matriarchal like um the black grandma is either mama big mama mama and you know like there's always this my dear you know like all these phrases so my grandma is either mama, big mama, mama. And, you know, like there's always this Madea, you know, like all these phrases.

So my grandma is mama, you know, like everybody calls her mama, like everybody calls her mama. So that's mama over there who's got so much good wisdom that she's imparted. And I always tell people when I'm presenting at a conference or if I'm teaching, I say, hey, you all, mama passed away a few years ago. And when I was growing up, Sophie J., I never cursed. I never cursed growing up. I didn't use curse words. But when mama passed away, her spirit has come upon me. So if some words drop out, that's not me. That's Lily B. That's Lily B. That's mama. If you hear anything drop out because that is definitely her spirit coming that makes me even more eager to meet her i'm fine find out about her i'm yeah i'm so grateful to granny and to mama and for who who you've become and i can't wait for part two and i'm

thank you sister thank you thank you i appreciate one word you said that it caught my attention because I always say when I begin to teach, like I study to live and then I teach from my overflow. Like I am studying to live. Right. And it's just my overflow that I get to share. So thank you for letting me overflow with you. Such a joy. Thank you, sister. See you, sister. See you, sister.

Thank you so much for tuning in today. Thank you so much for being with us all the way through to the end. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'd love to hear your feedback at sophie at redschool.net. I'd love to hear if there are any topics or guests that you would love us to feature. And as always, if you can subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review, it really helps to expand the reach of this work. That's it for this week. I'll be with you again next week. And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.