The Menstruality Podcast - 144. Decolonising Wellness & Ayurvedic Menstrual Wisdom (Jyoti Rani)

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Today we’re exploring a vital topic to all of us who are looking to evolve, wake up and live in a way which is honouring and life-affirming - decolonisation.When you look at the modern wellness industry in western countries, you can see that it borrows heavily from the ancient traditions of cultures from around the globe - from turmeric lattes, to cacao ceremonies, to yoga classes, to burning sage.There’s an important, growing, decolonisation movement which is asking all of us to look more deeply and critically into our own practices, and to ask ourselves how we may be causing harm, and to work to correct it.Our guest today is at the leading edge of this movement, and in our conversation she shares generously about her personal decolonising journey with us, so that we can all work towards - as she says in the intro to her brilliant ‘Decolonising Wellness’ podcast - appreciating, not appropriating.Jyoti Rani is a Menstrual Cycle Coach who practices, teaches and embodies a decolonised approach to wellness - rooted in inclusivity, diversity and an honouring of indigenous wisdom.She is also a Yoga Teacher and a big part of her decolonising journey has been reclaiming her Indian heritage and the rich wisdom of Yoga and Ayurveda - “the knowledge of life”, India’s ancient healing system - so as an added bonus, we begin and end the conversation learning about Ayurvedic menstrual health. We explore:Dozens of ways to begin decolonising your mind, your life and your wellness practices. How we can decolonise our menstrual cycle - by stepping away from cookie cutter templates of how our cycles ‘should look’ and instead cultivating an intimacy with the cycle we have.What Ayurveda recommends we eat on our period---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyJyoti Rani: @_jyoti.rani_ - https://www.instagram.com/_jyoti.rani_

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back. It's great to be with you. I hope you're doing well today. Today we're exploring a really vital topic to all of us who are looking to evolve, to wake up,

to live in a way which is honouring and life-affirming, and that is decolonisation. When you look out at the modern wellness industry in Western countries, you can see that it's borrowing really heavily from the ancient traditions of cultures from around the globe. Think turmeric lattes, cacao ceremonies, yoga classes, burning sage, the list goes on. And there's a really important growing decolonization movement, which is asking all of us to look more deeply and critically into our own practices and ask ourselves how we might be causing harm and how we can work to correct that. And our guest today is at the leading edge of this movement in our conversation. She shares generously about her

personal decolonizing journey so that we can all work towards, as she says in the intro to her brilliant Decolonizing Wellness podcast, appreciating not appropriating. So Jyoti Rani is a menstrual cycle coach who practices, teaches and embodies a decolonized approach to wellness which is rooted in inclusivity, diversity and an honoring of indigenous wisdom. She's also a yoga teacher and a big part of her decolonizing journey has been reclaiming her Indian heritage and the rich wisdom of yoga and Ayurveda, the knowledge of life as she calls it today, which is India's ancient healing system so as an added bonus we begin and end the conversation learning about Ayurvedic menstrual health including what Ayurveda recommends we eat on our period so let's get started with decolonizing wellness and Ayurvedic menstrual wisdom with Jyoti Rani. So Jyoti, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for being

willing to have this conversation, for making the time. It's just wonderful to be here with you after kind of studying your work and listening to your work a lot over the past few months. Yeah, it's wonderful to be here with you. Oh, thank you, Sophie. I'm also very excited to be here. I've listened to this podcast you're at in your cycle we can have a cycle chat and see yeah see where we're both at and how that's going to flavor the conversation where are you at in your in your cycle today I am on cycle day eight so I'm in my inner spring and I do feel like I'm going through a bit of a you know those transition days or crossover days my menstruation phase is usually six to seven days so it does make sense you know like I woke up this morning and did some dhinacharya which is like an

ayurvedic morning routine so like oil massage dry brushing things like that did some exercise and now I do feel like a little bit groggy and I was wondering oh I wonder why that is because normally like I'd feel more invigorated for doing the dhinacharya and the ayurvedic morning routine but I think it is because of that that condition like little feelings of anxiety I'll be going away towards the end of this cycle on holiday so So thinking about that, like, what do I need to prepare? You know, all of these thoughts that come up that I left whilst I was bleeding so I could bleed in peace are definitely arising. So, yeah, that's where I'm at today. What about you?

Gosh, I don't know. I love it when it's the menstruality podcast. Yeah, it's day 14. So it's quite classic that I would forget where I'm at yeah and I'm I mean I'm absolutely on fire I feel like I've got lava flowing through my body because I care so much about this conversation that we're going to have I think so I'm kind of I'm shaking with it there's a lot of charge in me and I'm but that's you know I'm obviously close to ovulation I don't think I'm ovulated yet I usually get quite a clear pain on either side of my pelvis so I'm not there yet but I've got a lot of rising energy a lot of energy surging through me

so I'm just gonna breathe with that and like allow the charge of it. You know, so much of what we speak about at Red School is how the menstrual cycle is schooling us and guiding us to live our calling. And this feels like a moment where, you know, I'm in the right place at the right time with the right person doing the right thing. My calling is activated and now I've just got to create some riverbanks for the charge to to move through my system you know I mean I know exactly what you mean I love that so much and we were just saying before we hit record like I was I've been meaning to email to ask to be on the podcast for quite a while but I do feel like now is the right time and you know we've already had to postpone it once because I was on my period um so you, it feels like definitely right time to have this conversation. Yeah. What does life look like for you when you're on your period?

Like your practices, your yeah, you know, it was great that we rescheduled. Is that something that you often do? Yeah. What does life look like for you around your period? Yeah. If I can reschedule things like I will definitely try to I try to rest as much as possible especially those first two to three days um you know of course sometimes life it's just not possible you know you've got you've got plans that you can't change or meetings that you can't change. Yeah, so resting as much as possible, taking things slower where I can't rest, like physically moving slower. I can't move fast. Like I can't, you know, be walking quickly.

Like I have to walk slowly. I find meditating easier in this phase, like when I'm bleeding. So I'll, you know know I'll do that I pull some tarot cards and like four tarot cards one for each phase of the cycle and journal on those which is something that I have done consistently for a for a while now and it's like I did my menstrual cycle coaching training through Claire Baker's cycle coach school and she suggests this as a practice and I think since then so it's been three years i think so since then like it's been a really if i do nothing else that's the one thing

i always do essentially and so that's a really nice practice um yeah journaling anything nourishing that i can do really for myself like eating nourishing foods resting relaxing sleeping watching Netflix like whatever whatever I need really without too much judgment where possible yes oh yes and from an Ayurveda perspective are there practices or ways of eating and moving that you try to do when you're on your period? Yeah, so from an eating perspective, it's the Ayurvedic principles advise that you don't eat oily foods or food that's hard to digest. So kitchari, which is lentils and rice, or just rice, soups, things like that, you know, that are warming, but also have warming spices in. So,

you know, you want to be incorporating things like ginger and cinnamon and those warming spices. So I definitely try to do those things. And then in terms of movement, it's all about slowing down, you know, like Ayurveda explains that when we're on our period and we're menstruating it's the body's natural kind of way of detoxifying and removing the ama which is is toxins from the body so we don't really need to do too much else to help it along in terms of um so like that ayurvedic routine i was talking about earlier i wouldn't do like oil massage I wouldn't do dry brushing because it's too it would then be too much for the body like too much detoxification if that makes sense um so yeah slowing down like maybe doing some very gentle asans like yoga poses and not doing

inversions because the movement of the blood and and the body kind of fluids that are coming out of you are going downwards. So if you're doing inversions, even downward facing dog, then you're sending the energy the wrong way. So you know, that's kind of like the scientific reason behind it. Whereas sometimes I think we as women and people who menstruate here, oh, don't do this on your period. And we think, hang hang on that's not fair we should be able to do everything but when we actually understand why it makes sense um so yeah like really gentle movement to be honest on the first couple of days I don't really do anything I don't feel like I can then I might start doing a few bits um yeah really gentle asans going for walks and that's about it that's what works for me

um so yeah beautiful thank you I um I had a breakfast this morning that is probably exactly what I should eat when I'm menstruating which was um like a rice soup with vegetables and a little bit of egg and I feel I studied yoga 15 years ago probably and there's a long story there that maybe we'll get into in terms of me my own decolonizing journey we'll see where we go but I remember an Ayurvedic practitioner saying to me you have a lot of vata what you need to do is that all of your foods work their differences out in the pot and then eat them all together as in like cooking stews and soups and I've got ongoing digestive challenges and I was like I just need my the ingredients to work it out in the pot before they get into my body I love that way of explaining it yeah and actually like a lot of Ayurvedic

cooking is about that trying to have everything cooked together rather than eating like a lot of Ayurvedic cooking is about that, trying to have everything cooked together rather than eating like a bit of something that's raw and then you know like salads or something and then having something else that's warm like all of that mixing can be difficult for digestion, especially when we're on our period and especially you know depending on your constitution and what what dosh as dominant for you but we could have a whole conversation about i know um so i wanted to speak a bit more before we get into decolonizing wellness the ideas the podcast just about your cycle awareness practice because there was something really beautiful that you said

in your conversation with Sinu Joseph, who is an amazing menstrual health educator, and we'd love to have her on the podcast and hopefully that'll happen. You shared about the importance of us trusting our own body's wisdom, even though the powers that be in our world don't support us to do that or actively are calling us away from our own wisdom. And that cycle awareness is this amazing way of coming home to trusting in our own body's wisdom. So I kind of just wanted to lay those words at your feet and see what arose for you today in response to those. I think for me, when you know, someone asked, what do you do? Or what what's your work about? My phrase has always been like supporting people to come back home to themselves, because I really feel like that's the journey I've been on. And I'm still on, you know, there's always more more to uncover more ways to come back to yourself.

And I think for me, when I first heard about like the four seasons of the cycle and learned that kind of framework something just clicked and I just thought oh my gosh like my life makes sense now all of these constant moods and ups and downs and thought patterns and you know sometimes I think I'm going crazy like I'm sure you know you're nodding the people that are listening probably feel the same like I think we've all kind of had that light bulb moment and I find it so frustrating almost when you have all these health practitioners who are ignoring the menstrual cycle and just doesn't make sense to me I'm still learning more things about myself making more links and I think it really is important

that as many of us as possible who menstruate are able to connect to that in our own way and yeah use it to come home to our bodies and we do live in a world that doesn't support us to do that unfortunately so you know it's it's really trying to understand and then work with it how how works for us and understanding that that's different for everyone like there isn't this cookie cutter way of doing menstrual cycle awareness which I think is the danger and kind of what I see sometimes on Instagram is that kind of cycle thinking happening and that's just then capitalism and colonization coming into this beautiful practice that doesn't doesn't need that interfering 100% yeah I was looking at your Instagram this morning and there was a post where

I feel that you described really potently some of the massive problems with the wellness industry. And I'd love to read it because I feel like it sets the context for this decolonizing wellness part of the conversation. So you said, I used to believe that wellness practices had to be picture perfect for Instagram. I fell for the stereotype that only a specific image fit the wellness mold. A skinny, white, non-disabled female with a Starbucks in hand, vegan, of course, and wearing active wear. And then you say, but those assumptions couldn't be further from the truth. Sadly, they're stereotypes perpetuated by the wellness industry, profiting from your unrealistic ideals. Through my journey of decolonizing my wellness practices and my mind I've been able to challenge these stereotypes and assumptions like can we unpack this because it's

it's so huge and I feel like until I saw it I hadn't seen it and then I saw it and then I thought holy this needs to change and then it's been a journey over the last you know seven years to to see how alive it is in me and to to decolonize my own mind but so can you share why like what inspired the creation of the podcast what gave you the the courage to step out and speak these truths and maybe a bit about your story too of growing up as a British Indian and how that's woven through this yeah of course I've also been like on this journey even though I am a person of color like an Indian woman you know colonization affects us all whether you are in the majority that typically does the colonizing if that makes sense or like you are be you know

you're in the minority who have been colonized so yeah I think obviously my journey began from from day one even though I didn't realize it so for me I grew up in like a small town that was very white that wasn't very many people of color in my school, in my primary school especially, in my secondary school there was a handful of us in each year group and I think because of that I found myself very much rejecting my culture. I wanted to be like the people around me, like my friends who were all white and I wanted to do the things that they were doing, eat the things they were eating and you know live the way they were eating, and, you know, live the way they were living. Not that my parents, you know, encouraged us to live that differently. But it was it was just little things, you know, and food was a big one, like I very much was like, I just

want to eat English food or non Indian food. But now, I very much love Indian food and could eat it all day every day. So that was throughout my school journey. Felt like that. Like I remember almost wishing, like I just wish I could be white. Life would be easier. Not that I necessarily experienced overt racism or anything like that. I just felt that I was a bit different. And then I went to university and made friends who were like me so were also Indian

and joined Hindu society it was honestly incredible like I found that there were just certain things I didn't have to explain to people and they just got it and there was I think for a lot of my friends they'd come from like London or Birmingham and they had this confidence in themselves that I didn't see in myself because they'd been surrounded by people who also looked like them so they didn't have that yeah lack of confidence or lack of self-belief and self-worth that that I very much had I think you know I'm not saying that's fully from the way I grew up in terms of like being surrounded by people that didn't look like me but I think that was definitely a part of it so yeah like coming to embrace my culture my roots

and of course when you go to university, most people feel homesick, like I definitely did. My friend dragged me to this Hindu society prayers, essentially. So we went one evening, and it was a prayer that hadn't actually heard before. But I just sat there and listened and suddenly just felt at peace. And it was only after on reflection that I kind of noticed this and started going more regularly and it was just all these little things um that really helped me to embrace my culture more and eat you know enjoy eating like Indian food I think that also comes from not living at home suddenly I was like I want my mum's cooking now um and yeah and then after that so I became a primary school teacher decided like I didn't really want to do that for the rest of my life so I went to India and did my yoga teacher training

excuse me so this I think added like another layer to my journey like deepened it even further because here I realized like how ingrained yoga and Ayurveda is into my culture without, yeah, I hadn't realized. And the reason I went to India to do my yoga teacher training is because I knew that was the birthplace of yoga. And I knew there was more to yoga than I was seeing in the yoga studios I went to and the yoga classes but to experience that like I really think everyone should go and do a yoga teacher training even if they don't want to be a yoga teacher because it's such a journey of a self a self-reflection journey self-development and it was the most incredible time and I think also there was a point where I looked around and thought, wow, like all these people want to learn about things from my like ancestors culture or my culture. And like, I don't even really, other Indian people don't even realize this, but here's all these other people who are so interested.

So yeah, that was, that was kind of the next layer and then I think after that I realized when I came back to England like set up my business to be a yoga teacher I then realized like hang on this isn't the yoga that I learned because you know I learned like the eight limbs of yoga we did mantra chanting we did meditation we did like Ayurvedic practices in the morning like nasal cleansing and things like that like with the neti pot and everything. And I was like, no one's talking about that stuff. Like here we are, everyone's just talking about doing gymnastics on a mat basically is what yoga is in the Western world. And that really frustrated me. And I started to see like, you know, other people talking about this, but not that many. And yeah, I just thought this isn't right, you and then of course in 2020 which is when I started

my business George Floyd was murdered and that kind of sparked something else within me to really take a deeper look at my life so far and that's when I sort of really started reflecting on on how I'd been affected by racism and also, you know, other things. So that was kind of, you know, an added layer again. And yeah, I just, the idea for the podcast had been in my mind for a while, like, hang on, I know that like yoga has been completely whitewashed. I know like Ayurveda, not in the same way but also has been you know taking certain herbs and putting them in everything like at one point turmeric was in everything suddenly there's these ginger shots you can buy um you know oiling your hair is a huge thing now but like Indian people and other people in the east have been doing that for years but you know

when when like my mum would have come to England and walked around with oily hair she'd have been um completely bullied and you know called out for it but now it's very normal um and I knew that's probably happening to like Chinese medicine maybe like cacao um and you know other things so I really wanted to find the people who are from these cultures to understand what's kind of happened. And that's kind of where the premise of the podcast came from. So it's called Decolonizing Wellness, and it's really like a place for people who want to engage with wellness practices with integrity. So I speak to guests who are from like these indigenous wellness practices and we just delve into like the history the roots understanding how we can appreciate rather than appropriate

this practice and how once we know better we can do better and it took me a while to actually you know decide to do the podcast and I think part of that was because I was afraid that I was going to say the wrong thing you know I thought if I'm doing this podcast then I have to know everything about decolonizing wellness and I don't I still don't like nobody does but there's such a cancel culture that you know you feel like you have to be able to say the right thing you don't want to say the wrong thing what if you get cancelled what if x y and z and i'm like a natural overthinker and perfectionist anyway so throw that into the mix so yeah that's kind of that's like been my journey and then into the podcast i did do it and release

the podcast and it's been an incredible thing to do i had so many great conversations and I'd love to do a season two so watch this space and I'll drop a link in the show notes to the podcast and particularly I know we have a lot of yoga teachers who listen and I'm sure many of you have you know are on this decolonizing journey already but the conversation with Susanna Barkataki is great really really really good to listen to so I'll drop a link in the show notes which will be at redschool.net forward slash podcast wow I mean you've shared so much and I'm so grateful to you for doing this work what I'm tracking which I often track when I'm hearing people's life stories is your calling your purpose your your why

and I'm curious to hear how coming home to your cycle or how you see the relationship to coming home to your cycle and the blossoming of this work in you big questions yeah big question um yeah I think my journey of coming home to myself is entwined with decolonization and it's probably only something I've realized relatively recently um but you know I think this work of decolonisation is for all of us to do, not just for the indigenous people. It's, you know, it's the responsibility of all of us. And in some, it's linked into all of our journeys in some way, whether we realise it or not, or we accept that part of our journey or not. And I think to really understand yourself as your true form you have to strip away all these layers and like we live in a post-colonial world so that the only way to do

that is to strip back those layers of colonialism of capitalism of the patriarchy of you know all the isms that we that we have to contend with. Yeah, to like come home and like figure out who we are without all of those, without all the expectations and the shoulds and the woulds and the coulds. And it's certainly not an easy journey. And you kind of think, OK, yeah, I've got that one. And then the universe gives you another challenge. And, you know, you've got a whole other layer to uncover and you know it really is a spiral I'd love to share a couple of other resources for you if you're wanting to go deeper with your own

decolonizing journey you might enjoy two more menstruality podcast conversations where we've explored indigenous wellness practices. Firstly, with Maori mama and educator Hinawai Waitoa, episode 87, The Magic of Maori Menstrual Wisdom and Rituals. And one of my favorite parts of that conversation was where Hinawai described what she has in her Kete Ikora, which is her menstrual basket. And secondly, our episode with Dr. Cree Dai, who is an amazing woman who facilitates social justice, diversity, equity and inclusion sessions on our menstruality leadership program now. And her episode is 138 Indigenous Cycle Wisdom and Menstrual Rituals. So I'll link to both of these in the show notes for today's episode at redschool.net forward slash podcast,

along with all of the brilliant resources that Jyoti shares throughout this conversation. OK, let's get back to the conversation with Jyoti. So we interviewed a woman called Asha Frost who's a wonderful indigenous Anishinaabe woman and I'm now studying with her ongoingly I just love her and her she led a ceremony for the last full moon which was the the maple sugar moon the maple sugar moon she spoke about coming back to the sweetness of ourselves of our true selves and she actually in this ceremony it was so beautiful what she did she called on the ancestors to kind of flood in and clear out anything which comes from these colonial messages or these patriarchal structures or

capitalist structures so that the the energy of the fullness of ourselves could flood our system and push out to make space push out the all of the ideas and thoughts and ways of living and ways of being that aren't ours but that have been we've just been swimming in for so long all of us in different ways and it was a really it was really refreshing to feel like oh yeah I can take a moment to say out get out of me um and so I can come back to myself which I guess is a big part of what can happen for all of us when we bleed really that's our moment of if we can be supported and resourced to rest of coming so deeply home to ourselves that we can yeah have space from all of the different stories and systems that can crowd

in and fill us up yeah I'm just noticing a massive charge in me because over the past year what I've been looking at actually in therapy is what happened to me in my yoga training um which was in Thailand and totally led by white European people and there was a lot of there was a lot of abuse that happened in that school so that's a big part of what we're reckoning with and you know there's Uma Dinswatuli and great people who are naming what's happening in in the yoga world um so there's that but also what I'm coming to terms with is how I traveled to another country and just took and took and took extracted extracted it's this colonial extractive mindset you know I went to Thailand and I took from the Thai culture I went to you know I then traveled to India and I was taking without understanding and owning

the legacy of my ancestors and it's yeah it's just a big piece for for the white women I can only speak for myself as a white woman to do and it's messy and confusing and I feel like I'm getting it wrong all the time but I still just feel like having these conversations and talking about it is what's absolutely necessary and it's why I bow for this decolonizing wellness podcast that you've done because it's such a resource for people to come and kind of practice hearing about this being familiar with these conversations so that we can each find our own way to not perpetuate it I guess that's what I'd love to ask you really is can you speak to how we can all work to to honor cultures whilst we're also

receiving a lot from them so that we are so they're working toward this culture of togetherness and belonging rather than extraction of course so there's a really interesting ted talk by nikki um sachez or sanchez um sorry and she talks about colonialism in Canada specifically but I think some of the bits that she says is really interesting and can be applied to decolonization in general. So she says I really want to dispel this myth today that decolonization is the work of indigenous people whether you have ancestors that were colonizers or colonized, we're all colonized people. So this work of decolonization is really work that we need to

come together to do with one another, equally accepting our roles, our locations, our privileges, and ways in which we can move forward towards a future which looks like healing, looks like justice, looks like dismantling systems of oppression. And then she also goes on to say the history is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. And I think sometimes we can fall into that of thinking, well, I didn't do that. It's not my fault, but it is our collective responsibility. So I think that's just like something important to name. And then in terms of like, how can we appreciate not appropriate, you know, of course, there's not like a tick list

that I can give you. You know, it's a journey, but there's definitely a few things we can do that kind of fall into different categories. So I think one thing is to honor the complex and sometimes bloody histories of wellness practices. So I think first we have to appreciate and understand our own ancestors. One of my guests, Rachel, says really beautifully in a podcast, the depth at which I can honor and respect my own ancestors is the depth I can honor and respect someone else's and I think in kind of mainstream British culture like we don't necessarily honor our ancestors or I say we they don't really necessarily honor their ancestors that much from what I see obviously I could be wrong here but I don't think that they do I'm sure like before like in pagan culture and so on they were very much honored whereas in you know cultures in like in Mexico they have day of the dead still and they really

honor their ancestors in um cultures in the east you know the ancestors are really honored so I think it's first we have to own and know our own ancestors really understand like who we are where we come from our own identity and I think when we're rooted in our own identity then when we are listening to other people's or understanding other people's cultures we're less likely to kind of steal things or take things without without that um honoring and without that respect um and also looking into like what were your ancestors wellness practices because it can be difficult to find but we all we all have them no matter the color of our skin i think they've been better preserved in the east and maybe that's why people are going there to get them but we we all had them um and that's not to

say we can't you know it's not to say you have to be Indian to do yoga or South Asian to do yoga or anything like that um so yeah you know that change really does begin from within so we have to take that step first and then we can really explore understand and honor like the history and the roots of the different wellness practices that we engage with and I think here it's just important to like diversify your information sources you know from social media from books from podcasts like wherever you're getting your knowledge from like if you're learning about yoga and you only ever learn from a white yoga teacher, then unless they are really, really rooted in true yoga, then you're probably not getting a diverse enough knowledge of what yoga

really is. And it does take time, you know, like, it took me a long time to find people to interview because those aren't the people that the algorithm shows. Like, there's so many people on wellness practices that I wanted to explore, and I just couldn't find the right people to speak to. It was, it was really difficult. I mean, it definitely snowballed once I found a couple. And I think, in terms of yoga, like, there's amazing South Asian yoga teachers out there that you can learn from now and you know all the guests on my podcast are definitely people that you can learn from and then I think like uplift uplifting people of color voices indigenous people's voices and citing your sources and references, you know, not just saying, yeah, not ignoring that as though

like you've come up with it or invented it. Like, I remember when I told someone at the yoga studio I used to go to that I was going to India to do my yoga teacher training, because that's where yoga originated. And she didn't, she had no idea. Wow. I was like, oh, gosh. gosh yeah this is this would have been 2019 and I just thought oh okay and this was like really before I was kind of fully in this journey um so you know a lot of people still don't realize um and like what you said at the beginning Sophie like once you see it you can't unsee it sometimes you wish you could could. You're like, oh, sometimes I think, oh, I wish I wasn't so conscious of these things. Life would be easier if I was just ignorant. But, you know, obviously, you know, I'm saying that with a pinch of salt.

I wouldn't want to be any other way, you know, because it is difficult to be on this journey and to see things and to constantly be critiquing things and and so on and but yeah uplifting BIPOC voices sharing their work paying for their work not asking them to work for free and using your own voice I think to be an ally and to use your privilege you know like I said this is the work of all of us it's not just the work of of the people that have been marginalized and colonized and I think also like questioning the your teachers and your facilitators the people you learn from and seeing how they react you know like are they very defensive are they willing to take it deeper are they willing to say actually do you know what I'm not sure but let's find out together you know I mean that's what I was taught as a teacher, like a primary school teacher.

Like, you know, when you don't know the answer to a child's question, that's OK. We're not like the source of all knowledge. And then I think the final thing we can do is making reparations to the communities where the practices that we come from were taken. You know, the wellness industry is a trillion dollar industry, but how much of that realistically goes back to the East? And whether we like it or not, money does equal action. So like choosing where you spend your money is another way of casting your vote so where possible like spending it with practitioners who are the indigenous practitioners or who are whose work is really rooted in decolonizing wellness and honoring the communities

and practices for me i donate like a percentage of my profits every year to this amazing ashram in India are they offering scholarships to people who need it the most are they offering donating percentage of their profits discounted rates there's so many different things you can do so yeah I think those are the kind of the broad areas of different things people can be doing yeah that's a very beautiful and full list thank you that's an amazing resource and again back to your podcast as a as a source of education for people and I'm really so grateful for all the research you must have had to do to be able to to create it a resource also for women and people listening who originate from Ireland and England and Scotland and Wales I did an episode with a woman called Tara Braiding we worked together to

get Three Sisters started but she her calling has become helping women to come back to their own, the women from these lands, to their own original practices as part of our decolonization work. If anyone looking, I want to connect with the wisdom of Britain, of Ireland, then that could be a good resource too. I can't remember what number it is, but again, I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah. Can we talk about decolonizing the menstrual cycle yes yeah I mean this is obviously like a 10-hour conversation we're having but we we're just beginning it now back to your podcast with Sinu Joseph she was speaking about how women and menstruators have been in sync with nature all along, but told that this wasn't science. It's not real because it's not science.

Or she's mentioned how we've been called witches across the world, anyone who was connected to their intuition through their cyclical intelligence but that mothers and grandmothers have preserved the practices so we're we're blessed in our world today that there are some still some original menstrual practices especially i just love to hear you speak about when you look out at the menstrual cycle world how we can think about decolonizing that that space too yeah I think I mentioned earlier about how there's no like cookie cutter way of practicing menstrual cycle awareness and I think it's being aware of that, like how everything can become influenced by capitalism and colonialism quite quickly and quite easily.

Thinking, oh, you know, we all talk about resting in your menstrual phase a lot. But that doesn't mean you can't rest in the other phases. And actually rest is encouraged a lot, like all the time, I would say. Like the more we can rest the better like women are tired we need to rest um and I think also how we can honor our own cycle and perhaps looking back at our menarche, our first cycle, talking to your mom, your grandma about what they used to do, or if they know of any practices, kind of go back into your ancestry and seeing what kinds of practices your ancestors may have done, creating your own practices now

from what you enjoy doing at different phases of your cycle. But I think it's just really important when we're trying to decolonize our menstrual cycles to, I guess, strip back like everything we've been taught about what the menstrual cycle is, what it's for. You know, in the West, it's very much thought of typically as like it's there for you to have a baby so actually if you don't want to have a baby then you can just turn it off with a pill and you know I'm not saying that you shouldn't you shouldn't take the pill or you should that's everyone's choice but actually like connecting with your menstrual cycle and your blood and it's a very deep and intimate connection that you will end up having with yourself. I'm thinking about when I get my blood in my moon cup and go and give it to the land,

something's happening there. Like, I don't know if my ancestors way, way, way back did that. But I feel that when I do it, I'm connecting to something old. And that feels honouring and beautiful and life affirming. I don't know what people would think about me walking, they walk past with their dog and like, what's she doing with her jar of blood? So there's still so much shame around the cycle that is really connected to colonization. So yeah, simply loving our cycles, turning towards our cycles, loving our blood is a decolonizing act in itself, I guess. Absolutely. I think it would be really beautiful to hear about the Ayurvedic approach to the cycle, because you shared with me how it's different from the four phases and how it's similar to could you walk us into that yeah of course so ayurveda is the um

ancient knowledge system and that comes from from india and from south asia and it's thousands of years old so ayurveda means knowledge of life um so i'll just explain a little bit about ayurveda before we go into the cycle because i think it will help to kind of frame um frame what it is so ayurveda is essentially based on like quantum biology so the subatomic understanding of the body so disease is really understood at like the subtle level of what causes molecular disturbance and chemical imbalance in the body through the three doshas so you mentioned one of them earlier vata so you've got vata pitta and kapha so because of this and the way that ayurveda works there's no compartmentalization

of like biological systems or like the separation of mental and physical health like it's all entwined and that's where it very much differs from um from the western system which is only now really coming to understand mental health and to entwine them back together almost so ayurveda explains that menstrual cycle sorry our menstrual cycle or menstrual blood is a byproduct of the rasa dhatu or lymph. So it's really affected by what we consume. So Ayurveda explains that with a healthy cycle, your blood will be bright red in color. The bleeding will last around five days. There'll be no odor and the quantity will be not too great and not too little.

And then any other discharge or pain, the body, as I was saying before. And it's really seen as an advantage that only menstruators have. You know, we have this, let's say, monthly-ish, like unique insight into what's happening in our body you know there's signs for us every month if we choose to stop and listen um indicators that things perhaps aren't quite right and that's an advantage that we have that people who don't menstruate they don't have that and i think we don't always see having a menstrual cycle as an advantage but it is a huge gift and blessing that that we have that we have a menstrual cycle as an advantage but it is a huge gift and blessing that that we have that we have a menstrual cycle it's giving us feedback it's giving us feedback about our health right there

yes exactly so we have our three doshas and everyone has a combination of these doshas um and they can be um imbalance in balance or imbalance so in balance or be in balance or in balance. So in balance or not in balance. And essentially, each of these doshas forms a different part of the cycle. So where in menstrual cycle awareness, we talk about the four phases. There's three phases in Ayurveda, essentially. So we start with the vata phase, which isaja kala which is your menstruation phase so vata governs all the movement and all the flow in the body so any any movement that's happening in the

body any flow and as i said it encourages like the downward movement of this energy which is why doing inversions isn't advised during this phase so it's about clearing our menstrual blood the toxins etc from the body and that's not to say that our menstrual cycle or our blood is is toxic or that it's dirty or anything like that i think the word toxins again has been very um overused and we think of it in a very different way in the west as to what kind of it means in Ayurveda. It's part of the colonial extractive mindset thing is that taking little pieces of information and then making them mean different things because they're taken outside of a whole holistic context. Exactly exactly and even the word holistic has so many connotations that you almost don't want to use that word anymore.

Yeah. But yeah, absolutely. So then the next phase we have is rutukala or the kapha phase. So this is essentially from when you stop bleeding up until when you ovulate. So I guess you could say they kind of put spring and summer together. So guffa is dominant here. And guffa as an energy is very supportive and strengthening. So it's that energy that's coming into play as the endometrium lining thickens, essentially. So it's a time where we may feel our energetic best we have greater stamina can take on those more challenging tasks so that's what's happening then and then we go

on to the final phase which is the pitta phase the rtu vyatita kala phase and this is governed by pitta so after ovulation we enter the pitta phase of the cycle with progesterone maintaining the thickness of the endometrium and it kind of brings around qualities of passion of drive of sexual desire so we might feel more creative here we can achieve more we might perhaps at the beginning feel like socializing more it's a very like ambitious motivating energy of pitta and i think for me i can definitely see that in terms of even like the few days before i bleed i'm suddenly like okay i need to get all this done so i can bleed in peace so that kind of energy and that fire that can come through yes in the in autumn it's yeah this makes so much sense to me what you're saying yeah exactly yes because pitta is very much governed by fire like it is our you know we have our digestion is governed by pitta for example um but then it also makes sense in the sense that

excessive pitta can then result in pms so like acne anger physical exhaustion headaches all of those things are often excess pitta in the body um so if we can slow down in this phase, we can be curious, we can notice like what's no longer working for us. It can be really supportive. And, you know, it's very much where that mask of like diplomacy is lifted. We don't feel like we need to live by other people's rules, by colonialism's rules and so on. And, you know, the world we live in encourages us to suppress these feelings to act normal whatever that means otherwise we might be ridiculed for like pmsing you know that typical oh are you on your period or oh are you due on is that why you're behaving like this kind of comments that we receive so yeah like listening to our intuition is highly important here as well so yeah that's that's the ayurveda

oh ayurvedic cycle in a nutshell um but yeah i think you're right like it does actually make sense when you think about what like vata kapha and pitta are all governed by and have a deeper understanding of that is there a resource that you could point people to who are intrigued and want to learn more about ayurveda and the approach especially to the menstrual cycle yeah i think sinu joseph's book is an excellent resource it's called ritu vidya which is r-t-u-v-i-d-y-a um yeah her book is excellent um to be honest there's not that much else out there and it's something I do talk about like on my Instagram and have done like workshops on and would love

to do more in the future so definitely you know follow sign up to my mailing list watch this space brilliant and where can people find you um what's your website and yeah could you tell us a bit about what you're offering at the moment if people want to come and explore your work? dot r-a-n-i underscore on Instagram. And then my website is jyothirani.com. So I offer one-to-one menstrual cycle coaching, which is very much infused with Ayurveda and yoga through three months or six months coaching. And that program is called devoted. And it's very much about being being devoted to yourself coming home to yourself, looking at various aspects of the menstrual cycle. And, you know, your intentions and working towards those. And then I obviously have my podcast as well i write blogs and lots of information on instagram as well and my email list or my emails that i send out to my subscribers i also have if you do sign up to a mailing list you'll get four free menstrual meditations so one for each phase of your cycle

which is a really beautiful way to connect deeper with whatever phase you're in oh that's a lovely offering that's beautiful thank you jyoti wow this has been really rich and i do feel like we've sort of started 18 conversations and i want to carry all of them on and i'm just so grateful to you for yeah the depth of wisdom that you bring and yeah that you've taken this journey and now coming to share it with others is such an act of generosity and I'm so grateful and I hope we can yeah stay connected and yeah good luck with everything that you're doing thank you Sophie thank you so much for having me and giving me this space I've really really enjoyed our conversation thank you thank you thank you for staying with us all the way through to the end of this conversation I would really love to hear how this one landed for you you can email me at

sophie at redscore.net and I'm excited as because I've just been doing another wave of outreach for the podcast and we have an amazing group of guests coming up. If there's a topic you'd love us to explore or a guest that you would love us to interview, again please email me at sophie at redschool.net, I'd love to hear from you. So please subscribe to the podcast if you're not subscribed already and it would be so helpful if you could take a minute to give us a review on Apple Podcasts. I think there's 35 there now. And it really helps the podcast to reach more people if you do that.

So we'd really appreciate it. And I'll be with you again next week. So until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.