The Menstruality Podcast - 145. Boundaries, Inner Mothering and the Menstrual Cycle (Bethany Webster)

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

The deeper we go with our menstrual cycle awareness practice, the more it can resource us as we heal our deepest wounds. Cycle by cycle, we step into deeper intimacy with our needs, which in turn enables us to take clumsy steps towards clarifying healthy boundaries. Today we’re speaking about a core wound which effects all of us, with the woman who first comprehensively defined the term a decade ago, Bethany Webster and the Mother Wound. As Bethany says, the Mother Wound is the place inside us where we compulsively cause ourselves to be small, self-sacrificing and silent as a means of loyalty and love and approval with other people. Today we explore how, if we’re persistent and committed on both the path of menstrual cycle awareness (or conscious menopause), and working with the Mother Wound, we can create boundaries which can help us to feel less disconnected and more like we belong to this messy, old life. We explore:How your deep ‘why’ can help you to hold clear boundaries when you face criticism.Bethany’s three tips for holding strong boundaries with challenging family members. How menstrual cycle can help us to discover what we really want (rather than what we’re making ourselves do) so that we can ride off the power of these desires to courageously set necessary boundaries. ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyBethany Webster: @themotherwound - https://www.instagram.com/themotherwound/

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here and for listening in today. I've got such a beauty for you. One of the things that I appreciate the most about my menstrual cycle awareness practice is that the deeper I go with it, the more it resources me to heal the core

wounds that are holding me back in my life. I'm curious to hear if you've experienced this. One way this happens is through getting to know my needs cycle by cycle. I become more able each month to hear what I actually need, which in turn makes me more able to take clumsy steps towards clarifying my boundaries so that I can meet those needs. Today we're speaking about boundaries through the lens of a core wound which affects all of us, with the woman who first comprehensively defined the term a decade ago, the mother wound with Bethany Webster. As Bethany says, the mother wound is the place inside us where we compulsively cause ourselves to be small, self-sacrificing and silent as a means of loyalty and love and approval with other

people. Sound familiar? It does to me. Today we look at how if we're persistent and committed on both the path of menstrual cycle awareness or conscious menopause, if that's the phase of life you're in, and working with the mother wound, we can create healthy boundaries that help us feel less disconnected and more like we belong in this messy old life. We actually get started with what Bethany's perimenopausal body is teaching her about the boundaries that she needs. It's fascinating. So let's get started. I really hope you enjoy this one. Bethany, so good to have you back. I loved speaking with you last time and we said we must have a part two and here we are finally doing our part two. It's so great to be here.

Thanks for having me, Sophie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know our community will be so happy as well, so I can't wait to share this. Let's start with how you're doing through a cyclical lens. How's your cyclical life going? Yes. Well, right now I'm in the middle of perimenopause and I just had my second like full period in a month. And that's the first time that's ever happened. So my cycles have been up and down all over the place. And like there was one month recently where I bled on the very last day of the month, I was almost going to go through a whole month with no bleeding. So it's been really interesting because as my cycle's different every month right now, I have to really

listen almost moment to moment, like what do I need? What's going on? And it can really change from day to day in terms of my energy. I can really feel that everything is in flux inside. And so it's a really intense time for me just in my relationship with my body, things that are happening. And it's almost like my body's saying, you need to shift your priorities. And so I'm trying to listen to the boundaries that my body is setting with me. And some of them are like, for example, I have some, I have a bunch of things like with my arms, like tendonitis and the carpal tunnel and some arthritis is developing. And I'm like, wow. Okay. My body's saying slow down, not as much typing.

And that's hard for me, but I'm also excited. I'm like, Ooh, this means there's going to be space created for something new. Um, I just don't know what it is yet. And maybe more rest is enough. Like that feels really amazing. Um, so yeah, just embracing the, I would say is where I'm at. Beautiful. So many of the women and people in our community will relate. I know there are so many in the forties dealing with that flux. We actually just released an episode about irregular cycles and half of it was about perimenopause and how actually when you have a cycle that's being a trickster and completely changing how it can, it's hard, it's not to bypass the hard here, but how it can create more intimacy. I love that how you said, oh, the boundaries that my body is

giving me, that's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'm going to have to check out that episode because I'm like really loving all the material that you guys put out. You women put out about the cyclical work because now that I'm in my forties, I really feel how it's like nutrient rich information, but also spiritual and just support. That's really profound. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I think we can get into this in the conversation but I feel that the mother wound work and menstrual cycle awareness just go so hand in hand um yeah we can talk about it more I'm on day 22 so I'm entering the real like fierce boundaries phase of my menstrual cycle because always these seven days before my bleed are a time where, yeah, my inner warrior rises up and goes, this isn't okay. This is okay. Change this, do that. You can't do that. And it's just

very lovely to be around as you can imagine for my loved ones. These days I'm learning how to be a bit more graceful with it. Wow. That's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good boundary. So it's a great time to have a conversation about boundaries. Yes, definitely. So last time we spoke, we spoke about the menstrual cycle and the mother wound and how we look to each different phase of the menstrual cycle and how the mother wound can come up. And today our hot topic is boundaries, which I know I imagine in your community, it's a huge topic in our community. It is how especially as women, we can learn how to say no to others and yes to ourselves. It's this huge lifelong quest for so many of us, isn't it?

So big. Yeah, it's so key and it's so important. And yeah, like enduring. It's something that we revisit over and over again as we evolve into higher versions of ourselves that become more and more robust, you know, over time. Yeah. I see it as a spiraling thing because as we, you know, grow and expand and become more fully ourselves, obviously there'll be next level boundaries all the time, won't there? Absolutely. And one of the things that I see a lot, it's related to anger and boundaries is, you know, as we heal,

especially from the mother wound work or just from healing from trauma, when we get more of ourselves back with each turn of the spiral, it's like we look back at the past differently and with more self-worth, we can see our worth more clearly. Like, oh, I was an innocent child or I was a, you know, just a young woman. And, you know, I didn't know my worth yet. And so there can be almost this kind of corresponds with your place in the cycle, but a more fierce energy. It's not destructive,

but it's just a clarity of like, I know more of what I'm worth. And it becomes a little black and white. We don't waver so much. I remember in my 20s, I would just struggle so hard, even in my 30s with, how do I negotiate talking about boundaries and how do I do that without losing the relationship and just decades of struggle with that. And I find like, especially now in my forties, it's just so nice to like so much more clear, crisp and clean, and not as much of that tumultuousness around how do I do this? But that has become sourced from just over time with so much healing, seeing more and more of my worth. And that deserves protection, right? As we value ourselves through the work. Well, it's so rich what you've just said. And I absolutely relate in my forties.

I would crudely say I care less what people think but I think what you're saying is the deeper truth I know myself better I know my worth better I've rewritten the stories of my younger life through the lens of my 40s in a way right yes yes so it's like we rewrite it over and over with every new level with every new spiral turn, we see more and more, oh, we can have so much more passionate love and compassion for ourselves. And I think we also have it for other people. Definitely. You know, one of the things we talk about with boundaries and the mother wound work is it's a form of respect to other people to be really clear, you know, like love is honesty.

And unfortunately, many of the people of the older generations, including our mothers and grandmothers, might not have seen honesty as part of love. So that's where there can be some, what's the word I'm looking for, but turbulence when we're negotiating boundaries with people who have different definitions of what love means to them. Yes. Let's define the mother wound because I'm aware that people listening might not have come into contact with you and your work yet. Oh, yeah. Could we start? How would you define it in just a couple of sentences? I'm curious. Yeah. The mother wound is the place inside of us where we compulsively cause ourselves to be small

and self-sacrificing and silent as a means of loyalty and love and approval with other people. And it goes beyond the personal too doesn't it like i can't remember where i've got this from but i've got this writing here from you about how the mother wound exists on four levels yeah personal one the cultural one and you've put on a cultural level the mother wound is the cultural atmosphere of patriarchy that says women are less than and how that belief in women's innate inferiority penetrates every aspect of our culture from education media religion magazines literature sitcoms and more where it's like the water we're swimming in right right exactly I'm laughing I think it's funny it's

not really funny but we have to laugh because it's so hard I know I know. It's like comes at us from all sides and it perpetuates some of the myths and the false patterning that we receive through traumatic patterning with our families. You know, they kind of work together. Um, like, cause in a way our society is a bit traumatizing. So it, it's like, they're locked together. Yes, yes. Like one of the things I learned in my family, and mum, if you're listening to this, I do love you. I don't think she listens. But I learned to be quiet, that my voice wasn't welcome or as welcome as others. And then I look out in the world and I see women silenced, or I see women objectified. And to that little girl in me, I just think, okay, well, there's evidence that I

should keep my mouth shut. And this shaking and trembling that I feel when I'm about to speak my truth, that's a sign that I need to keep quiet when actually is a sign that I need to speak. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And some of our mothers pass that on in an effort to keep us safe. Like this is how you stay safe in a traumatizing world. You be quiet, you stay in the background, you do what people want. You put yourself last. That's how you get love. No boundaries. Yes. No boundaries. Just give, give, give. Yeah. That's so the generation of our mothers, isn't it for sure okay there's the spiritual level so you've said on a spiritual level the mother wound is a wound

with life itself causing us to feel an existential sense of disconnection from a higher power a sense of feeling alone in the world and in the universe and i'm remembering when we spoke last time you were speaking about the kind of the kind of liberation and connection and next level states of consciousness that you're experiencing kind of freedom from this how's how's that going oh it's so intense it's so intense yeah it's like realizing and we talked about this with the planetary mother wound as well which is about the planet and nature and i feel like these are related but basically realizing that there is no separation and that we are there's only one thing happening one consciousness and we're all manifestations of

it and to actually experience that it's a very powerful intimacy. It's like an intimacy with everything. And seeing that we're part of nature, nature is part of us, that everything's interpenetrated and connected. And this is so intense and more than we could even describe with words. But I find that in my own personal journey, again, just speaking for myself, the mother wound was so painful on the personal level that, and I think it is for most of us, like that primary bond with our mothers. And it's that wound of like, am I lovable? Am I safe? Am I safe on this planet, in this family, in this body?

Will I survive? So it's about worth and survival all mixed in. It's so primordial. And it can break our heart open really deep. And that's why most people don't want to do the work of healing the mother wound. I mean, it's just like, it hurts to heal, right? It gets worse before it gets better type of thing. But the great news is that if we are persistent and committed on the path, we can heal that sense of division and separation and disconnection and start to feel, wow, I am lovable. I'm part of love itself. I'm part of nature herself and everyone else is too. And so it's almost like this ultimate safety emerges that's transpersonal. It's not about the personal, transpersonal. And I hope, like I'm at this point now where I'm just so grateful for my wounds because the wounds become the portal into another side of connection.

And really, I think all of us feel this, especially as little girls, as children. We know this place, actually. So when we go through the spiritual and planetary mother wound, we actually return. It's a return. It's another cycle back to the very ground upon which we were harmed as children. And source or nature is saying, open up now to me. Let me live through you. Let me support you, almost like the ultimate parent. You can surrender to me and I will love you and support you. And that's ultimate security.

So it is kind of like a circle back to the beginning where we get to reanimate childhood, but in a really conscious way, like we get to have the carefree, surrendered, feeling supported on almost a transpersonal plane. I don't know if that makes sense. I'm just riffing on. It makes a huge amount of sense. It's so rich what you're saying, you know, it's huge what you're saying. And my brain goes to two different places. One is I see the connection here with menstrual cycle awareness, because I feel that what you're speaking to is belonging. Yes. Like kind of belonging that hunger that basically all of us have, I think of like, oh, I just, I thought life would be more beautiful than this. Or I thought, where is my home? You know,

those kinds of feelings that we have maybe in the middle of the night, that kind of belonging. And the reason why I was thinking of menstrual cycle awareness is because every month when I bleed, now that I know how to surrender into it and to carve time for it, although, you know, life's imperfect and I don't always get what I need there. Boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. But I am able to drop into a sense of belonging to life. Yeah. Every month and plugs me back into that awareness that yeah the wind that's blowing

through the trees is the same air in my lungs and all of this you know and I'm also thinking of indigenous knowledge because I'm reading it's taken me a long time to get to this but I'm reading Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Walkenworth. I was just thinking I need to read that it's been on my list forever I know I'm gonna just like explode when I read it it's so so beautiful and the story she tells that effortlessly just transmit this indigenous wisdom of this knowing that we are that life is one and that we are all moving in this same field and wow it's big it's big the mother wound it's big it's big it's big and it's like I love how it works where it's like the wounds the wounds that we have in our culture we tend to think oh it's

wrong with me like I have to heal this and this and I'm not healed yet we have this cultural atmosphere of like products and branding and perfectionism. And so it's easy to think of ourselves like a product that has to be refined and protected and presented to the world and all of that. And the truth of it though, is that our wounds are actually, I mean, amazing gifts that we have. It's almost like our wounds are the program that we have for the school of life. It's like, okay, here are your wounds and these are your challenges. And when you, when you heal, as you heal them, you get gift, their gifts are bestowed on you, you know? And so they're not mistakes. I'm starting to have a real respect for the wound itself, because if we really approach it, like I want to heal this and I

want to commit to my healing, it's this amazing journey where, and I see this with my coaching clients, life tends to reorganize itself to support whatever healing you're going through. So for example, if it's boundaries, you're going to be presented with all of these opportunities to start to set boundaries. And I know some of you listening know this, right? You're like, oh, right on time. Here comes my next challenge, right? And maybe it's your mother-in-law, maybe it's your husband or partner, maybe it's your child. Somebody is pushing against you, right? In that familiar way. And you feel that pull of like, okay, do I do the thing I've always done that was

modeled in my family, which is maybe shut down, be silent or resentful? Or do I do the new thing that's scarier, which is like speak my truth or be honest or set a boundary, however clumsily we get a choice, like which one do we want to do, or even somewhere in the between, but it's like, we kind of do go one way or the other. And I, even the clumsy attempts at the new boundary setting are rewarded. Life rewards us when we stretch like that. So it's, I really find like a support is super crucial to, to, and also normalize that this is hard. And also it gets us to really a worthwhile place that other pursuits like acquiring fame and fortune and all that shit doesn't really lead us to anywhere that viable, you know, this is real life. This is like, Oh yeah, juicy. Let me live my life to the fullest. Let me

use these wounds as the gifts they are so that I can open up to new experiences. Because when we heal like that, our brains, there's new connections made in the brain and we can see new possibilities. Whereas if we stay in those old neurocircuitry patterns from childhood, we just repeat and circulate the same things. Yeah. And our world doesn't need repeating and circulating the same thing. Our cultures, you know, we need, we need new, we need new. Exactly. And like right now in the world, we're seeing so many examples of things, people doing the same things. Like if a wound isn't healed, it repeats and it gets worse and the more people are harmed.

So yeah, it's like a big mirror that, wow, what would it be like to have a world where more and more of us really dedicate ourselves to the pain? Like Tara Brock talks about this in her book, Radical Acceptance. She says, think of your suffering as something that's entrusted to you, you know, that's precious that you get to work with. I'm so blessed to have a friend who I can, I can share anything with her, any shadow, pain, challenge. And she always says, your pain is nourishing to me and not in a sadistic way, but in a like, yes, I feel the truth and the power and the beauty in this. Yes, exactly. That's such a beautiful example of honoring the pain, honoring the suffering, because then once it's blessed, then the wisdom can start to really flow from it. Well, it feels especially important to honor those of us who are willing to go into the pain through the mother wound work and through menstrual cycle

awareness, because these are both topics that are shamed and a taboo. Totally. Double brave. Yeah. And I've heard you say, you know know when you first started this work you were shamed regularly and whenever I tell anyone what I do I actually watch them try to hide the disgust on their face when I say the menstrual cycle and menopause you know because they're just like oh they don't know what to say about that and but you've been you've been through this to her how people sort of shame yeah totally totally yeah that's one of the things that held me back from talking about it was I was you've been through this too, how people sort of shame you. Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, that's one of the things that held me back from talking about it was I was afraid of like the hate mail I would get or people shaming me. And it did, it all happened.

But the great thing was I realized I could survive it and there was so much awesomeness beyond it. Yeah, yeah. A lot of the people in our community are edge walkers and, you know, are scared, are either in the process of creating things in the world and are receiving feedback, difficult feedback, or are scared of it. What would you say helped you to move through that shame and keep on? Because you have created something magnificent. You know, you're really living this work fully in the world now. Yeah, I would say that that's a great question. I'm so grateful for that question.

And I'd say the biggest thing that helped me was I kept this phrase in my head and it was, make your mission more important than your fear. Yes. Yeah. So it's like, you don't have to get rid of the fear. You don't have to make it go away. You just have to alongside it, think about your why. And for me, my why was all about integrity. And that was the most solid ground that I could stand on. And so I was just like, my question that I always ask myself is, what's inside of my integrity and what's not? What would be the most empowering thing for me to do in this moment? And in that moment, I could feel the pull of like, oh, my mother wants me to just be the person she wants me to be for herself.

And my dad wants me to throw all the family junk under the rug and pretend that nothing ever happened. My brother wants me to be the good girl, the big sister that doesn't rock the boat. But was any of that in my integrity? No, my integrity was truth. To be in alignment with my truth and trust that when I'm in alignment with my truth, which is the definition of integrity, trusting it will serve all, even if it hurts and it's messy. And I had a great therapist as well. So it's not like it was doing this alone. I had good support, but those questions really helped. I developed a

passion for integrity and truth and just followed it through even the hardest of the hard moments. And I'm so glad I did. I am so glad I did. Because that was, you know, the pull of family compliance is no joke. That is strong. That is so strong. It's like an undertow that has ancestral momentum of many, many generations. So to be an edge walker, a cycle breaker, I have so much respect for women who do it. And especially moms, because when you have a child, it's even, I think it's even harder. Yeah. Cause I'm just scared all day that no, I'm not scared all day. That's hyperbole, but I'm, I often feel fearful that, that oh I'm messing him up you know with how I am

I'm watching myself oh it's a fascinating process I'm watching myself become my own mother yep and seeing how that has been painful for her and then how it will be painful for me and what am I passing on to him and it's just such a minefield and as you're saying a huge field of opportunity there's just not much space to process as a mother that's the challenge for me is like yeah it can bust the like questions curiosities insights and but I am learning so much yeah yes and just the act of being conscious Sophie just the act of feeling it all is immense. I mean, cause that's the first and most important step. And in a way it's kind of the hardest one because when you're, when you're conscious

of everything that's happening, it's painful. And I think Carl Jung said, you know, anytime we come to more consciousness, it involves pain. You know, it's just part of being a human being, right? A conscious human being is to experience pain and to befriend it. And, um, and I wanted to say something else too. Yeah. I just respect that you're being conscious, feeling it all and doing your best. Cause that's all you can do. That's the max. And you got to, it's like making peace with what you can't do. But I think that energy that you

just described of like, I'm just going to show up, you know, as conscious as I can, basically, that models something extremely powerful for your child that you have, they have a mom who's leaning into her edge. You know? Thank you. Feel affirmed. It's teaching me boundaries too. Hey, I wanted to read a list

because you sent a brilliant email out recently of like many of the ways how you might be hearing the mother wound in your head so for for our listeners I found it very useful um and and we're going to end with one on boundaries and head towards that direction right so things like shut up don't rock the boat know your place be a good girl always put other people before yourself make yourself small so that other people will like you oh that one feels really sticky for me you're not good enough pretty enough smart enough and then obviously the capitalist consumerist world just compounds that yeah um you've no right to say no ask for help want more than you have and boundaries are selfish and make you a bitch and that's the last one that made me go I need to talk to Bethany about boundaries yes yeah exactly that's a really one. It's like a real deterrent,

isn't it? From culture and from our families is this shame piece. Like you're ungrateful, you're a bitch. Who do you think you are? You're selfish. And also I'm doing a lot of work right now with emotionally immature mothers and it's part of this, right? It's like we, this is part of the bravery is setting boundaries with people that can't appreciate the value of boundaries and feeling the fear and doing it anyway is really what it comes down to. The good news though, is that you can start small. You don't have to set like a massive boundary. It can be like, one of the things I suggest with my clients is who struggle with this is tuning into your body regularly and befriending. What is it that you actually want? And it And want is the key word in all caps, because sometimes people think, well, I don't need that, or I don't know. So there's this like, part of the mother wound is this kind of attenuation or truncating

the robust peripheral of what do we actually, what do you really want? Like even just getting in touch with that from moment to moment, being honest with yourself. Like I'm just thinking of one example to make this more concrete. This woman was at a museum and she was looking at some items and she felt this woman come over to her. Like she didn't look up from what she was looking at some items and she felt this woman come over to her. Like she didn't look up from what she was viewing in this case of the museum, but she felt this presence of another woman behind her. And she felt the presence of the woman waiting for her to like move on. Like it's my turn.

And she didn't. She just stayed with the thing that she was viewing in the museum. She didn't acquiesce because a part of her was like, oh, I need to do the good girl thing. And even though I'm not done, let this person go to the next thing because that's what she wants. It's kind of a nice example because it's that prioritizing other people above yourself. And just the act of not moving was so powerful to this woman to just finish until she was ready to move on. Another example is if you're tired and some people, whether it's your kids or your family or someone in your colleagues wants you to do something and you're just tired and you can't

do it or you don't have the capacity is just to say, to just be honest and say, well, this is what I'm feeling. This is what, this is where I'm at, basically. And maybe say, I don't think I have the energy right now. I'm not feeling like it's a fit. Or I think what I'd rather do is X. So kind of like just being honest about what is there for you and what is true for you in that moment. So even before we set the boundary, I think there's great work to be done around, because how can we be brave if we don't really know what we're wanting? So I think it's a super rich process to just play with, what do I really want? And what am I making myself do?

Because that's where our power lies, is really, do I acquiesce to an outer command or an inner command or do, can I advocate? So in a way boundaries are like self-advocating. I have an invitation for you. If you'd like to understand more about how this practice of menstrual cycle awareness can support you through whatever healing process you're going through. I warmly invite you to join our brand new online course Cycle Power. With this course Alexandra and Sharni who are the co-founders of Red School and the trailblazers of the global menstruality movement are calling for thousands of us to create a collective homecoming to the power that lives within the inner seasons of the menstrual cycle

so we can put it back at the heart of our lives and our world. You can find out all about the course at redschool.net forward slash cycle power that's redschool.net forward slash cycle power and you can receive 25% off this six-week self-paced course using the code bethany at redschool.net forward slash cycle power i'm so excited hearing you speak this way because I'm seeing that for me menstrual cycle awareness has really been the process of me understanding what I want like being able to listen for it like this process of day by day so it's 13 years now I've been tracking my cycle day by day how do I feel how's my mood how are my emotions what did I dream last night what are my desires like how how's my energy all of that you know and some days I write I might write two words and some days I might speak a 10 minute

message to a friend but that that process has walked me home to knowing what I want and need in each moment. I'm still not there. You know, this is a journey, isn't it? I'm still discovering like, oh, yeah, okay, I totally, you know, overrode myself there. But I'm thinking actually back to what started menstrual cycle awareness for me, which was I think I was in a similar place to where you were when you began your therapy that then led you to the mother wound work. Like I was anxious, depressed and rageful, rageful, especially around like day 23 of my cycle, day 23, 24.

And debilitatingly so, to the point where for a few days each month I wouldn't be able to work I just had to cry scream rage like it's I don't know perhaps it could have been diagnosed as PMDD I'm not sure but it was it was big you know it's classic PMS in quotation marks oh yeah totally respect that's intense like the yeah society would call it PMS I learned through this through Red Score through Alexander and Sharni that it was my inner critic rising up to show me this isn't okay this isn't okay this isn't okay this is what you want this is what you want this is what you want and what I actually did it took me two years was I left a relationship I left a job and I moved country at the same time. So I talk about- You need some bold moves. Some big boundaries.

I'm like, not you, not you, not you. And I come back to it all the time because it was a power move for me. And whenever I notice myself overriding, I think, okay, I can do this. You know, I know what I want and need and I can make those moves. But it's exciting to feel how much menstrual cycle awareness has helped me with that.

Yes. I love that. I can, I can definitely agree with you on that. I I've experienced that as well. And that part of the cycle where it's like things become clear, but they get muddled and then they become clear. It's almost like things have to get muddy first and then they get clear again. Yes.

It's like the wound, you know, all the respect for the wound, the wound needs to come up in all of its messy glory for us to then get to next level intimacy exploration with it. And I just keep thinking of that Leonard Cohen quote, there's a crack in everything. That's, that's where the light gets in. it's so real it's so real yeah um I'm curious if there are boundaries that you're currently working with laying down in your life yeah that's a good question um well I would say my circle has gotten really small and at first it felt involuntary. Like people were kind of just, this was around the pandemic, um, when it really started and, um, like everything changed. Like my relationship ended, I moved, um, my book came out and then as soon as the book came out, which was, it came

out on the day of the January 6th crisis in the United States. Um, and it was almost like, you know, I, I, the book came out and then it was like, I start, I felt myself start to dissolve a bit like, oh, the person I thought I was isn't really the person I am. Like, you know, the striver, the go-getter, the, like, it just wasn't me anymore. So I started to kind of disengage from my identity a bit. And it's been a really fun process. But in that process, a lot of people, I've let a lot of people go.

I would have done things like keep in touch with people just because I felt like I quote should. I used to do that. Even if I didn't really want to connect with them very much, I would just felt this dutiful need to check in. Now I'm just like, and I just stopped doing that. I was just like, no, I got really clear cut about certain things. So another thing is friendships that are developing have to be deep. They have to have some kind of depth and they, people have to be able to handle, uh, difficult conversations with me. And, and that's, I think this is part of my identity shift is I really am. I'm leaning into every relationship is a gift and I want to grow with the person.

I don't like superficial things aren't really important to me anymore. Like even going out to eat at restaurants or things I used to like love doing traveling. You're just not even superficial conversation. I just don't, I'm just all about the deep now. And I've kind of made peace with it. At first I was like, am I a freak? Because I just don't like what everyone likes. And so I've had to walk this path of like loneliness. Old me would be like, no way I can't clean out my life that much. That'd be so lonely. I'd feel so alone and

rejected and abandoned again, mother wound residues. Like this, which underpins all that is a sense of scarcity, which is true of the mother wound as well. Right. Like there's not enough for me. I'm not enough. What if I can't get what I want? Um, all those scarcity based things. Um, but the cool thing though, is I've kind of passed through that and I, it's like the solitude is really the nourishment, right? And I feel like I've turned something that was upside down, right side up, where the self and my transpersonal connection with everyone feels more vivid. I don't need as much from other people as I used to need. I don't need people to completely make me feel valid. You

know, a lot of those things I did need, um, I've healed a lot of those and I feel like now I just want someone to play with, but in a deep way, friend, friendship wise, I actually don't even want a partner. I'm at a point where I don't even, I just love being living alone and like having a small circle that makes it really rich and less complex as well. That's drama. I don't want it. But yeah. And so it's been setting boundaries with people, speaking up sooner, not letting things fester, addressing, and some people collapse. Like I've had some people like, oh, there's a conflict. That means I'm being harmed. Or like a difficult conversation means we're harming each other. Nope, that's not true.

But it's kind of good because you see what people are made of sooner. Yes, yes, yes. But you have to get to a place, I think, where this is my experience. It's not true for everybody, I'm sure. But if you get to a place like this, it's like you need less and more feels less feels more almost like a piece of chocolate. That's a really yummy piece of chocolate. You don't want to eat a ton of it. You can eat a little bit and it feels really powerful. That's kind of how my friendships have become. So beautiful. Can we, can we like slow the process down and tease it open? Like I'm, I'm curious to hear, for example, how, when you felt that longing to lay the boundaries

around, around friendships and that voice comes up, oh, am I a freak? What do you do in that moment? How do you hold yourself? What do you tell yourself what happens in that moment to move through to the place of freedom where you can put the boundary down? Yeah, I think what helps me in that moment to not buy into that is to think about the opposite, which is if I were to stay in the friendship or keep doing whatever that's not working, how would I feel? And the truth is I would feel, I can always get in touch with, oh, that would feel gross and I wouldn't want it. And I wouldn't actually be known. And I think that's an interesting part too, is when you're thinking about boundaries, it's like, we want to preserve the connection, right? But what kind of connection are we going to have if it's not a real connection where we can't be honest? And I don't mean honest as in

harsh. I mean honest as in just calmly communicating your truth? And another thing that's helped me is to realize I want the real connection. So I'm going to take a risk and see if this person can hang with me. And if they can't, I tend to see that as a blessing because it's like, oh, I just saved myself a lot of time and it's okay if they can't roll with me. It's not their fault. It's just, we're not a match. So I prefer that kind of neutral thing. It's like, it's just not a match. And it makes room for someone else who is.

Yes, yes. So, and I had this experience where the universe tends to give us a lot of opportunities to settle before we get the real deal. Have you noticed that? It's like, say you want more of something. Exactly what I'm going through in my life. Cause I, I'm trying to make mom friends because it's helpful for me to have, it's helpful for all of us to be a village together, but it's like dating. And I feel like a teenager, like, would you like to play with me? It's like, it's very dating and I feel like a teenager like would you like to play with me it's like it's very very vulnerable and there's a very funny woman on Instagram she's called my kind of mum and she

she makes these very funny reels about the embarrassing things she says when she's trying to like so she's like oh hi how old's yours oh could I get your number it's not because I want to like go out with you and have sex or anything and That was the kind of thing I do. And it's very awkward. And, and I'm, yeah, I feel like I'm reaching this next place of maturity with it, where I am able to be with the discomfort and test to see, is this a friendship I really want? And the ones that are, there's probably sort of three good mom friends now that I've got. And they're the ones that I can have, that I can be totally honest with, messy with, rude, embarrassing, you know, and just let it all out. And we can just be in the mess together. It's the same for me. I want that depth.

Yes, exactly. That's right. That depth of being able to be where you're at in any moment. And this is another thing that has helped me is recognizing that the people that you want are going to appreciate the thing that you want to do. Yeah. So if someone disqualifies themselves and says, ew, um, awkward, I don't want to be your friend. Then you're like, perfect. Um, they're not a match because the person who really wants what you want, which is that raw, you know, unvarnished truth. She's going to love your awkwardness. She's going to be like, oh my God, I feel like so awkward too. Can we be awkward together? I love all awkwardness. She's going to be like, oh my God, I feel like so awkward too. Can we be awkward together? And how about boundaries with people already in our lives? Like I'm thinking of,

I'm thinking of Aiden, his mom, actually, he wouldn't mind me sharing this. He's very willing for me to tell his stories, but he has a narcissistic mother oh wow she's she's so incredibly difficult and he's just continually practicing putting down boundaries and she's continually pushing them so for someone listening who has a parent or someone else in their life and they're hearing this oh no you just have to be nice you just have to do they say, keep the peace and all of these stories. What advice would you give for someone who's wanting to lay down a firmer boundary and is needing to find the metal to do it? Yes, that's a great question. I would say if you feel there's a boundary you need to set to go ahead and do that. And I would, this is some tips I have around doing that, especially if this is a mother-in-law or a mother. It's to be clear, be brief, firm, and respectful. So keep it short, keep it respectful,

firm, clear. And if it is a narcissistic mother type or emotionally immature mother, include consequences, communicate those consequences too, and then follow through with those consequences. If they get, you have to follow through with them with narcissistic mothers or because in a way it's like you're actually training someone almost like a toddler. If you think about it that way. So they have to know there's consequences, otherwise they will push and push and push. And then you have to follow through with that. So it's almost like it's a process. You start clear, firm, respectful, repeat that. Sometimes people will try to push you here and there. You have to repeat it. So sometimes a broken record technique,

you have to do it over and over again. and then they will get it. And once they know you're serious, usually through some consequences, they fall one of two ways. They'll either, they really want the relationship with you. So they were, they will comply eventually might be a push pull period, but they'll comply. Or if it's a really toxic person, they might attack. They might see it as a power thing rather than a negotiating respectfully. And then you might have to create some lower, reduced contact even more if that's the case. Sometimes it's that transition that I really work with women around is, how do I keep trying to negotiate? Or can I start to implement some kind of reduced contact? And I always tell people, you have the right to set up your life how it works for you. This is your life and it belongs to you. and you have nothing to feel guilty about regarding how you set up your life.

And if people take that personally, that's really on them. You know, as long as you, again, respond to them, speak to them firmly, clearly, respectfully, you know, you're not doing anything wrong. You're just telling them neutral information. Like I can do this and I can't do that. You know, I'm willing to do this, but I'm not willing to do that in a way that's pretty freaking neutral. I mean, it's just like, we all have limits and we can't do everything. So it's a real opportunity with setting boundaries to tap into that inherent validity of like your

personhood and your right to set up your life how you want to and to not take on any guilt or feel the guilt and do it anyway, which most of us have to play that out. Like you said, like have the fear be there, but still do it. It's the same with healing from guilt is to let the guilt be there and do it anyway. And then as we do that, the guilt loses its power over us and it just fades away eventually. But the real magic is in just the taking the risk and doing it. And then you realize, oh, I can survive this. The little girl in you is like, oh, we didn't die. Nothing catastrophic happened when I set this boundary. And that kind of builds the confidence over time. Yeah.

And that's the beautiful thing about boundaries. They, they, they have that kind of exponential power that as we get more and more, we get more confident to lay more and more. Yes, yes, yes. That's the fun part, right? It's like, yeah, we get to be, it's almost like an art, like setting boundaries becomes an art. Like, how can I communicate my

care for a person and my, my limits at the same time? And the connection can remain. It's just, it's not about like, you know, so like all those things that go through our heads of like, you're selfish, you're ungrateful. You're not, you know, that's all just garbage. Yeah. We have to learn to continually throw it away. It's not anything I need to listen to. Yes. How can I show my care and my limits at the same time? That's beautiful. A menstrual cycle awareness idea here to bring it on. Yeah. If there's someone in your life who you're who you've got a knotty, messy, tangled, confusing relationship with and you don't quite know what's going on and you want to lay a boundary, but you're not sure what it is, I would recommend bleeding on it. Oh, I like that.

If you're in the perimenopause club and your cycles are irregular, this is harder. So it's a different kind of bleeding on it. It might be a lunar cycle bleeding on it maybe yeah but take it through all the different phases of the cycle pre-ovulation in a spring ovulation in a summer the premenstruum where the fire might come in and then the bleed where you can hopefully surrender and rest and receive some of that like mother hug of life yeah where we feel your belonging and then see what kind of clarity you have on the other side of that and what kind of boundaries might emerge for you uh yeah I love that yes I love that it's like letting the question in the cycle what like bubbles out kimchi therapy I feel like it would be lovely to give five minutes to to inner mothering

there was a post that you put on instagram where you said an important step in developing healthy boundaries is learning that no outer person can provide the inner safety that you need the time for that is only in early childhood and that time is over that felt fierce and so true when I read that that's so true so and then you say however as adults we can mourn that lost opportunity and develop inner safety within knowing ourselves as individuals is essential to true intimacy and connection and boundaries we could add right yes exactly in our self-awareness we can know more fully our own needs desires and preferences and boundaries so this there's this inner mothering we can do to create safety to enable boundaries to happen. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And one of the easy ways,

if someone's new to inner mothering that I recommend is like, do the opposite of what your mother did that was harmful. So if your mother was like, you know, you got to be quiet, you got to be a good girl. Don't tell people how you feel. Shut up. Then it could be like connecting with your inner child and saying to her, I love meeting your needs. I love hearing about your feelings. Like your feelings are so important to me. Like one example is my inner teenager actually was really freaking angry at me and I could feel it. It was like this anger. And I remember the shift, a really big shift happened for me when I turned to my inner teen and I said, I want to hear about it all. Bring it on. Like, tell me everything you're angry about.

I am listening. I am here. I want to know. And as soon as I opened that door, which is the opposite of what my mother would do, my mother would say, what's wrong with you now? What the problem? You're so difficult, or something like that. But turning around and saying, yeah, I really want to know. I really want to understand what you're struggling with. And then making space for that anger in a bunch of different ways, like journaling, dialoguing, physical movement, like everything. And it just, you know, it really was a game changer, big time, because it's very unknown. It's very scary. A woman's anger is like really unknown energy. It's really wild in a way. So when we can create that kind of safe container for ourselves to feel our anger, especially about boundaries, like setting boundaries, often the fuel for that is the anger from which not having boundaries, right? That's the structure for the new boundaries is the anger.

Just why it's so fiery and hot and it can feel so messy. There's so much heat in it. There's so much vital energy. But yeah, coming through this fierce force that, yeah, I mean, it's been labeled as hysteria for centuries. You know, it's no wonder that it's scary for us to feel it. Exactly. And one of the things you can do with the inner child, inner mothering is say, you know, I always start my inner practice. Well, let me back up for a second.

There's two parts to the inner mothering practice that I teach, which is validate and differentiate. It's a handy little phrase. And basically what it means is you always want to start with validating the feelings that your inner child is feeling, which means you always want to say, oh, it makes total sense you feel this. Like, of course, it's normal and natural that you would feel what you're feeling. So you always start with that empathy, that validation. Medicine, just there. Just that. It's right to feel what you're feeling like how how many of us heard that i i doubt there's many people listening who heard that totally so if

you do anything you can always just validate oh i i can see you're in distress you're feeling scared confused panicked i'm with you i've got you makes sense you're feeling that given your history of what you've been through. Totally makes sense. So that's step one. And then step two is differentiation, which means kind of differentiating the past from the present. And it's kind of like, it's not your fault. I'm here with you.

I'm different from mom. I welcome your anger. Your anger is beautiful. It's part of your power. It's part of your wisdom. And I want to hear all about it. Let's explore it together. No matter what you share, I'm going to receive it with respect and love. And so that differentiation, what it does is it tells our brain, I'm not in the trauma situation I was as a child anymore. This is a new thing. This is a new time. And this is a new person. This is my adult self. It's not my mother. So it really kind of sets us

up to have new pathways in the brain where we don't shut down necessarily what we're feeling and we can open up to new choices in that differentiation part. So it's about finding a sweet spot between enough validation and enough differentiation. Sometimes there's challenges to flipping too hard on one or the other. But that's the general practice. I invite anybody who's listening to work with that and see how that feels. Because it can help us to, yeah, not feel so trapped in those old patterns. Yeah. And like you say, new neural pathways, new possibilities, new being able to see and feel and sense in new ways is so exciting when this opens up on so many levels. Yes. This is where the new world happens. This is the new

earth is in the brain where we can feel, oh, there's new, there's new ideas. There's new ways I could think about this. Oh, I have a choice here that I didn't see before. Oh, you know, it feels like that in the body. That's how it starts. And then if we can follow through that with action, then things start to really change. If enough of us do it, if enough of us can feel that

those new pathways open internally and then we take action on it, collectively, we might have more pathways. Yeah. Back to the planetary mother wound. This could be how we turn this, this thing around. Yes. Bethany, if people want to, how can they get in touch with you? How can they connect with you? Yeah, you can just go to bethanywebster.com and there's a blog with dozens of articles. There's free eBooks. There's a bunch of free resources. And then there's also a bunch of little mini courses.

And then I have my main course, which is healing the mother wound. And you can kind of pick and choose what feels most juicy to you to check out. And then I also offer private coaching, but it's all on my page, bethanywebster.com. Lovely. Thank you. I knew this would be wonderful and it has been. I hope you have a gorgeous day. And if I lived there, I would totally be trying to be your friend.

Me too. Same. I'd be like, can I be in this small circle? All right, well, thank you so much. Thank you, Sophieie this was lovely hey thank you for staying with us all the way through to the end please share this episode this conversation with bethany with a friend who needs some inspiration support with boundary holding in their lives right now and And please also save the date, June the 5th at 1.30 p.m. New York time, 6.30 p.m. London time

for our upcoming free live online cycle power event with Alexander and Shani. Can't wait for that. Okay, I'll be with you again next week. And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.