The Menstruality Podcast - 156. How we Practice Cycle Awareness as a Couple (Lucy Peach and Richard Berney)

Episode Date: July 25, 2024

How can you practice cycle awareness in your relationship? We get asked this question all the time, so we’re especially grateful to our guests today, Lucy Peach and Richard Berney for being willing to invite us right into the heart of their cycle-aware relationship. Lucy Peach is a period preacher, author, and folksinger. She’s a graduate of our Menstruality Leadership Programme, the author of Period Queen, and a long-time champion of the power of the menstrual cycle. Her theatre show, My Greatest Period Ever has educated and empowered thousands of people to shift the period narrative in our culture from one of shame to one of pride.Her husband Richard Berney is a creative director and co-performer in the show alongside Lucy, with his amazing live illustration. They were just about to begin a 25 show run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival when they sat down with me to speak about the joys and challenges of practicing cycle awareness in their relationship. We explore:The strategies Lucy and Richard use to honour Lucy’s cyclical rhythm in their relationship, from practical details like how they use a shared google calendar to how they both work with the same acupuncturist, to how they’re navigating a long fertility journey. How Richard embraced Lucy’s menstrual cycle awareness practice as a new language - like a weather forecast! - that has helped him to get more perspective during tough moments between them.How they collaborated to create My Greatest Period Ever - Lucy’s award-winning theatre show.---Registration is open for our 2025 Menstruality Leadership Programme. You can check it out here: https://www.redschool.net/menstruality-leadership-programme---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolLucy Peach: @lucyspeaches - https://www.instagram.com/lucyspeaches

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey there, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. This one is especially for you if you've been wondering how you can practice cycle awareness in a relationship, particularly if your partner doesn't have a menstrual cycle themselves.

We get asked this question all the time. So we're especially grateful to our guest today, Lucy Peach and Richard Burney, for being willing to invite us right into the heart of their cycle aware relationship. Lucy Peach is a period preacher, an author and a folk singer. She's a graduate of our menstruality leadership program, the author of Period Queen and a longtime champion of the power of our menstruality leadership program, the author of Period Queen and a long time champion of the power of the menstrual cycle. And her amazing theater show, My Greatest Period Ever, has educated and empowered thousands of people to shift the period narrative in our

culture from one of shame to one of pride. Her husband, Richard, is a creative director and a co-performer in the show alongside Lucy with his live illustration. They were just about to begin a 25 show run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival when they sat down with me to speak about the joys and the challenges of practicing cycle awareness in their relationship. Before we begin, a note for you if you're in a relationship with someone who also has or has had a menstrual cycle, you might be interested in episode 98, Navigating Menopause in a Lesbian Relationship, where Gemma and Sophia share about practicing cycle awareness through perimenopause together. It's an amazing conversation. All right, let's get started with how we practice cycle awareness as a couple with Lucy Peach and Richard Burney. So hi you two, this is a first for the Menstruality podcast. I'm very, very grateful to you both for being willing to have this chat today. And we always start with a cycle check-in, so shall we start there?

How about we start with a check-in from you? I see you've worn your most manly jumper. I have. Yeah, we have a lovely rocking a pink cardigan with pearl buttons here. His 99-year-old grandmother. Can people see what I'm doing? They probably won't be able to see. Oh, okay.

Paint a picture. I'll paint a picture then. I'm wearing a card won't be able to see oh okay well I'll paint a picture then I'm wearing um a cardigan that my grandmother who passed away a couple of years ago at 100 and knitted it's pink the baby pink and it's got pearls for buttons but what I really want to show you is if I open it right up you can see there's a hidden pearl on the inside there can you see that there's a spare pearl a spare pearl richard is full of spare pearls and he he looks like a newborn baby in this in this jumper newborn baby girl anyway so you'll start in checking what day am i uh okay i'm feeling i don't know probably like day 21 or something.

A week behind you, yeah. Is that where you are? So I am, wait, I was day 22 on Saturday. 25. 25, yeah, I'm day 25. I am feeling, I mean, we're getting ready to go away and I've been packing my bags for about a month now and I'm maniacally weighing things and it's such a build-up.

And I guess part of where I'm at is because I know that I can be where I'm at in my life and in my relationship and with Richard I bet I'm gonna cry in this episode it's too early I know it's too early just hold it hold it yeah how about you Sophie I'm already feeling tender with you two just being here with you two I'm I'm kind of similar to where you are because but I'm on a different day so I'm already feeling tender with you two just being here with you two I'm I'm kind of similar to where you are because but I'm on a different day so I'm on day 17 but I think it's going to be a 24 day cycle I've got this um unusual thing going on for me where I'm like ovulating on day 10 you've got a shorter cycle yeah but I'm usually 28 so I'm I'm a bit I'm in that like whoa what's happening kind of thing that a lot of the guests that we speak to on the podcast who are in the perimenopause in the run-up to many menopause experience I'm a bit I'm in that like whoa what's happening kind of thing that a lot of the guests that we speak to on the podcast who are in the perimenopause in the run-up to many menopause experience I'm a

bit discombobulated but yeah I feel quite tender I've been thinking a little bit about aid and I and our relationship because you know in preparation for this conversation and how how great it is to be cycle aware but also like I don't want to use you two as my couple's therapist but I do have quite a few questions especially about how you navigate the inner autumn in relationship because yeah we had a bit of a crunchy moment over dinner last night I was like yeah definitely an inner autumn definitely want to chop your head off and not for any particular reason so yeah yeah quite tender a a bit fiery, but yeah, glad to be here with you too. But Richard, I wanted to ask, you've lived with Lucy as a

cycling woman for a long time. I'm curious about how you relate to your own cycles. We get this question all the time at Red School. Do men have cycles too? do men cycle and I'm just yeah curious what kind of cycles you track in your life maybe like around your creative process so in my professional life I moonlight as this menstrual doodler in my greatest period ever so there's that part of my life but my nine to five I'm a creative director and so I have to be a little bit on tap for creativity because that's what clients pay me for so to to be able to bring that sort of vitality in a in a nine to five job yeah I do pay quite a lot of attention to like self-maintenance just how do I get mojo and so

I do all the things that are just the normal things drinking a lot of water getting enough sunlight and yeah just being kind to myself in all the ways but I've learned a lot from being with Lucy about rest and just to be like really gorgeous to yourself and lovely to yourself just to be really soft i mean i've always loved nature just being in nature the cycles of nature and i get a lot of balance from just that it just feels like the most normal most obvious thing in the world so it seems sort of silly to say out loud but yeah geez that was rambling um you did say you were day 21 i did say i was day 21 you see how i listened that whole time yeah didn't finish anything yeah you really did i don't know that's my opening gambit like that's my go-to is is nature can i can i just say one thing about one thing that you said just in general

a lot of men don't necessarily have great role models around rest you know the way that i like to explain the cycle now too is like we all have these feelings they're human they're universal we all feel tired we all feel insular we all feel on fire and courageous and like we want to be seen we all feel connected and sociable and we all feel crunchy and like we need to turn our back against the world it's just that when you have a menstrual cycle you pretty well know when you're going to feel those things yeah so you can be across it and you can use it and it's like that thing that alexandra always talks about it's the container that kind of tunes us to ourselves and works us

in terms of meeting ourselves in all the different ways that we are because of the bodies that we have but when men get to really see what that looks like and i guess the rest is the big piece because that's probably the least socially acceptable way for men to sort of be i mean i guess they rest in different ways you know they go to golf clubs and put their feet on the desk and have cigars and stuff and i'm saying you don't do that you know the stereotype of how men rest but yeah yeah you can try any part of this on you don't have to be in the do phase in the spring all of your life you could have a period i mean that's what i say in the show like we're gonna go on this tour and like try it on see what it feels like yeah it's something aid

and i talk about and never do is can you have a menstruation day when I'm on day 14? Like when I'm up and I've got lots to give in the give phase, as you call it, why don't we organize our lives so you get to have some retreat time? But he often storms through it because he also has a nine to five, also needs to be really on, like to hold big meetings

and he he just keeps on going but then what I notice with him is he really does know how to rest and he will just totally flop and let go but sort of multiple times a week whereas I might save all of that up for my like two three days when I bleed when I really drop and then I sort of stay on it in a different way but you know you say it's the most obvious thing Richard nature but we're so not we're not with it really are we as a culture so it was really refreshing to hear you say um yeah I yeah there's something I wanted to say before about um you know how men cycle it is quite tricky i think it's quite interesting i'm 45 years old and i think just in recent years i've sort of been forced to understand how to rest better i think coming up through my 20s and 30s high octane you know i'm in advertising

campaigning stuff it's always go go go and so you just test ostre and your way through it like it's just it's super exciting it's always on but in my 40s you realize unless you pace yourself you're probably not going to last a heck of a lot longer doing it well and so that buzzword boundaries is really real at my age and so I think that is something that I've gotten better at which is knowing when to say no and just resting and Lucy can be quite difficult to say no to because she's she is really gorgeous and exciting but I think I'm getting pretty good wait this just took a massive turn but um well you know like doing things with you whether it's you know our work stuff you want to say no to me more well I am oh right now I don't know if you've realized I haven't you know you asked

me to do things and sometimes I say no I thought you just didn't do them because you forgot I mean you're also talking about life cycle aren't you so there's like you know your cyclical way of being which is really fueled by nature and then at the stage of your life that you're in at the at the life stage that you're in at the bigger cycle um you've got a different relationship to rest yeah it's so interesting to you say that because i think in you know alessandra and shiny speak about the the arc of the menstruating years and like 20s is spring 30s is summer and 40s is autumn where yeah boundaries do become more relevant and necessary because where our bodies are different and that our energy is different and we need different things so it sounds like you're maybe experiencing

an inner autumn time too in your 40s yeah well I'm really keen to be doing this for a long time I'd love to be campaigning for things that I'm passionate about you know really throughout my life um and so I think I need to just relax into how that's going to feel in the next 10 years or the next 40 years. I'd love to hear about your story as a couple, just to situate us. Could you tell us how you met? Can I tell it or do you want to tell you go okay so that's not how it happened so we both had a child from a previous relationship circa 2013 were online dating before it was okay to say that um and the platform that we met on

you know the ad had like a coupling a red sports car with gray hair and you know like we, yeah. It was RSVP. It was, okay, I wasn't going to just go into details, but okay. So anyway, Richard was dancing at home to his favourite song and sprained his ankle and then was laid up on the couch for a few weeks and got bored and decided to go lady shopping. My friend told me, have you tried lady shopping on the internet and and showed me she showed me all the things and i was like wow this is amazing and so we eventually met um and yeah can i tell this bit I mean, okay. It's like a four-minute story. I want it. Tell me.

Tell me. So it takes ages to coordinate because she's busy and I'm busy and whatever, but we eventually have date night and it's at this pizzeria. She's sitting up at the bar and she's wearing, like, this cool headscarf thing and there's, like, weapons on display. That's how I remember it anyway. They might have

been old farm tools but you know we sit down at the bar and she orders like hard liquor and I don't drink hard liquor because it's had one whiskey you had a whiskey you would like yeah I was was I and so anyway we sit down and I being a you know a very important jet setting individual had to be on a flight that night not really but I happened to have to I had to fly to Cape Town that night for um for a job and so I set an alarm in my phone and the alarm was like you have to leave at this time and I was like okay so I got my alarm put it in my pocket, forgot about it. And then we start chatting at the bar. We get moved to the restaurant and it's great.

Like she is like gorgeous and I'm not nervous. You know, she's like absolutely beautiful and I'm not stammering and being weird. I'm just being myself. And I'm like, what is going on? This is fantastic. I have superpowers with this woman. And so we were having this great conversation, drinking, eating Italian,

fabulous. And then someone tries to call me in the middle of this date, and I'm like, no way. Like I am not answering my phone like in this date. And we're chatting. and then someone calls again i'm like geez friday night nothing is going to be important like work it's not no what they call again like jesus it's actually getting a bit much i'm starting to think what this could be maybe it is an emergency Lucy goes to the bathroom and I check my phone and I'm like oh okay right that's not anybody trying to call me that's me

you know the first time it called it was like this is as late as you can leave the restaurant to get on that international flight is the big deal so she comes back from the bathroom and I just say look I'm really enjoying our date but do you think maybe you could take me to the airport right now because I have to go like right now and do you think that would be okay or maybe you could just take me home but I got to go right now and she takes me to the airport and I get it wrong she drops me off at the wrong airport and then i yeah anyway i made my flight 10 years later and yeah it's been really incredible to work together on creative projects yeah we made music videos together first lucy was a star and I was behind the camera and then I yeah just helped

bring to life some of my greatest period ever um and she said actually Richard I think you should just get on stage and just do whatever it is you're doing on stage I was like uh okay can you tell us about that process can Can you introduce My Greatest Period Ever, Lucy, and tell us about the process of you two working together on it? So my two lives before this menstrual mission really took off were sexual health, education, and folk singing, performing. And when we were making this music video, we had an assistant who was helping us

and I was giving him a synopsis of what it means to be cyclical and have phases and to align your life to them. And he was just so excited about it and told me, you should make a show. And so I wrote this show, which was sort of like a sex ed session, but it had songs in it and told me you should make a show and so I wrote this show which was sort of like a sex ed session but it had songs in it and stories um and I spent a while writing it but to be honest because I've been so um wedded to that way of life for so long it just kind of was just

everything that was in my head but I've been trying to tell people for 10 years and then when I was practicing it to my son who was like 11 at the time and Richard and this was probably three days before opening night and um yeah Richard said you know it's really good Lucy and there's some pretty big ideas in there it could be good to have a couple of diagrams and i was like oh can't you just draw me up a diagram um and he'd just gotten this ipad and yeah it was kind of drawing on it while i was speaking and i was like yeah that's great just do that and you know we hang on to be honest you said could you just do me up some things like before the show in three days and it wasn't just one or two slides like it was like quite a lot and I was like I'm sorry Luce I just can't like no I I just I just can't I don't have enough time. See this was the early boundaries early boundary

setting. I did it was early boundaries I was like no absolutely I'm so sorry I just can't that I just can't and she said Rich, just draw something. It doesn't need to be, you know, perfect. Like, you know, you have to do everything perfect. I was like, oh, okay. And then so she actually just performed again in the living room, the whole thing again, and I tried to keep up just doodling because that is part of what I do in my professional life I come up with concepts for campaigns that are hooky and quick

and and memorable and so I tried to keep up with her all these instant doodles and um and at the end she said they're perfect just the way they are stop fiddling they're perfect just do that and the next thing was she was like actually just do it on stage like you just did it and so pretty much as it happened in the living room became our dynamic on stage the first couple of runs or a couple of seasons really were like that it was like I was just trying to keep up with her it's a little bit tighter these days but yeah it was something quite organic and instant and off the wall about the husband and wife well the husband sort of responding to the wife describing the the menstrual cycle and what it meant for her it's really interesting to hear your creative process with that because I haven't seen the show you're eight years in now with this show I haven't

seen the show but I've seen your illustrations in different ways and they do feel so vivid and vital and alive and it's fun to hear that they were birthed through a process of like anti-perfectionism like look we don't have time for perfectionism so let's just you know just trust and go I think desperation as well just really trying to keep up with Lucy I think it's also authenticity and it's like you give this stuff you know what I mean it's not like you it's like you give this stuff, you know what I mean? It's not like you've had to go, ooh, I wonder what I would draw

to convey someone who's day 26. Like you have, you know, it's pretty relatable, do you know what I mean, to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you practising cycle awareness then when you first got together yeah so I came across it because I read The Optimized Woman by Miranda Graham in like 20 I don't know I want to say like wait how old's Ruben he was two years old so like so like 2008? I think it was published then, yeah. I feel like it was around then that I read it.

And that was like, yeah, just such a revelation, especially at 27, you know, like it was such a great time to really have an invitation into your own body and to realise. I mean, do you find like how many people say to you, yeah, I found Men's Recycle Awareness and I realized I wasn't crazy. Yeah. Like it's such a low bar, you know, to something is amazing because it makes you realize that you're not,

you're not a nut job. And you even said, I think about the show that women come and watch it with their girlfriends and then they go and they get their partners to come and say, see, see, it's not all in my head. I'm not mad. Come and listen to this woman.

She'll speak it. Yeah. Yeah, which, again, it's like, you know, it is really nice to preach to converted, as you know, but it's also like there's part of me that I feel like we should be going up to, I don't know, football clubs and the police and, you know, the army and the mining companies. Like I just think, you know, women know this stuff. We live this stuff and really.

Would we be telling the army when to attack when it's the best time? Lucy's got a very pre-menstrual face on right now. So you were practicing already so was it part of your like early negotiating as a couple like how how was that yeah i mean i guess so when i first got into i really used it primarily as a creative tool so for me it was like a way of really channeling that premenstrual energy um into something that felt good and that was songwriting. And it was such a proven strategy, you know, because, yeah, I felt happier and I wrote more songs and, you know,

I won awards with them and it just felt so good. So, yeah, I guess I had a lot of years of, well, five, wait, 2008, 2013, five years, yeah, which was actually really special to have that to bring to a new relationship as a bit of a like, this is going to sound weird, but kind of like it's me and her. We come together. Do you know what I mean yes yes and Richard's always been pretty cool about it I mean I don't know our conversations have certainly evolved and changed and you know we've also had some fertility

stuff happening in the midst of all of that so you know you get pretty granular on what day you are and what's going on but yeah I guess you're always curious you know you were kind of like okay cool like tell me more about that but which you know says more about you really yeah how was it for you had you been in a relationship with someone who was that close to their cycle before? Was it a new thing? No. No, I don't think I'd ever been with anybody who tracked their cycle and vocalised it.

But I've been with Lucy for over 10 years now. It was a new language for me. Yeah. All I knew beforehand was, yeah, premenstrual, menstrual, and then not bleeding was like the three. Yeah. It wasn't four. Yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, it definitely elucidated a whole world to me. I mean, you can kind of see into the future a little bit. It's just more language, knowledge just more clarity everything makes a bit more sense some things are still just hard regardless of whether you understand them or not you just need to be patient and yeah sometimes it's hard um so it doesn't solve everything, but it certainly, you know, if you understand everything, that makes it a heck of a lot, I suppose, fairer on both parties, regardless of what's going on. Yeah, it gives a lot of context, I think. Yeah, like you said, it can be a bit of what you're experiencing

rather than it being like just a big chaotic tumble of emotion. It helps you understand time as well like if there's something that's stressful and doesn't make sense like there's like uh you know something that's blocking or you know some craziness give an example i don't know like some anger or some rage or like an emotion that are we in the kitchen you're having like you're angry with me for whatever and for me right yeah yeah and for me i don't understand it i don't really i don't really deeply understand it and if you contextualize where you're at like it doesn't mean that oh you're angry because of the of where you're on your cycle not necessarily that but it does it helps me to zoom out on the wider picture of the world and i'm like oh this is not a this is not necessarily a permanent thing

this could be this could pass yeah i just know where i am in the cycle of things you know like when something bad happens and you're out at sea and it's like it's all rough, if you don't realise that the weather, you know, if you don't have a weather forecast saying it's going to be, like, different in three days' time, then it's like, oh, maybe this is just what it is now. Yes. You know what I mean? Nobody wants that.

Yeah, I'm being a bit careful with my language because you know like it's it's all freaking spectrum but um yeah just knowing where you are it's and that's not just for the cycle it's for all the man cycles that you asked about earlier when i talk about this i think about business actually when things are bad in my business or in and I realize oh it's okay it's just a storm like I've seen this before it's okay I find I get a lot of peace from that hey I'm going to pause this chat for a moment if hearing from Lucy and Richard is inspiring you and you feel called to play a more active role in this movement to move from menstrual shame to a positive menstrual culture in our world whether that's in your relationship with your community your family

in your work life or in any other, then we have an invitation for you. Our Menstruality Leadership Program is the world's first leadership training designed for nurturers, creatives, teachers, mentors, coaches, therapists, all kinds of people, all kinds of change makers to realize your full authority and leadership through the power of menstruality

if this sounds interesting to you now could be a good time to come over to menstrualityleadership.com to explore the program and to take your seat for 2025 because we've got a super early bird price available until august the 7th where you can save £495. So you can find out all about it at menstrualityleadership.com. All right, let's get back to our conversation with Lucy and Richard. One thing that Ada and I do is we've got a shared Google calendar. And when it's the first day of my period, I put day seven, day 14, day 21 and day 28 in our shared calendar. And I watch him, I guess it gets to day 21. He's like, OK, here we go, because he knows that my flavor is going to be different.

I'm going to be bringing different energy. And he it's like he's prepared for it this is so interesting because I feel like especially when you're on Instagram and you look at all of these reels that people make about you know their Labrador boyfriends or whatever's going on now and the way that it can look you know to hold to hold space and, you know, okay, I'm just going to do a bigger circle around the story, but in one of the workshops that I do, I get people to make their own map of their cycle and then to articulate what their needs are throughout the cycle.

Yeah. They might do it with a collage and there's music on and snacks and we're all kind of lying around and having this big play and then the last part of the activity is okay in a small group of people hold up your mat and show someone your landscape and run them through your world and verbalize without having a conversation what it is that you need at different parts in the cycle and for some people they've never even said something like that out loud and it's interesting to just notice how people respond to that invitation and as a way of getting them started to be like, listen, just because you don't, you haven't had your needs met in,

I don't know, different ways doesn't mean you can't ask for that or imagine that or, you know, take the lid off what it is that's been available to you. Yes. And the example that I give is these young girls who I talk about in my book, Period Queen, and they used to talk about how, you know, their boyfriends tracked their cycle and they knew where they were and they knew when to bring over wine and pizza

and they would never be with a guy who didn't understand their cycle. And, you know, at the time I was sort of agape, but also just so thrilled that that was their reality and that was the world that they were creating. And so I tell this story to this group of women who were writing down all the things that they need and this one woman she was probably I don't know 52 or something and she sort of laughed and said oh I kind of like I kind of hate those girls a bit because like you know I had a neurosis and I was throwing up and I'm just like I kind of you know I kind of I kind of hate them and I said to her it's okay to think of yourself as that 17 year old and what she needed and to revisit that and to write a list for her

wow yeah I need to do that and then she just burst into tears and that feeling of like how we're all just making it up right we don't know how things can look and how things can feel but you know to your point about just knowing the weather you know and like it's it's incredible bringing that awareness to a relationship that the compassion that it can bring. And because people often say, like, oh, well, Richard must be amazing, you know, do all these things and la, la, la. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, he's a great guy and he loves me and he wants to make me happy and sometimes he's really forgetful

or he's really busy or he has things going on but because we have that shorthand it means that he can slip in straight away to that awareness with me and then it kind of takes all the sting out yeah and i think that that's just like it's kind of about 78 percent of it i think it's important to press on that that we are we are a long way from perfect like if you if anybody listening thinks that there is this is easy or there's a perfect way to do it. Like, and I could imagine that we're possibly poster girls and boys for how to menstrual well in a partner relationship because I sit on stage and, you know, draw, you know, menstrual doodles about your month, like how many times a week.

But, yeah, the main thing is, like, just having faith that the other person is just doing their best so if i if i miss and i miss regularly like you're not always thrilled with like how i come to something like that's a regular thing like i'm not where you hope that i would be but like you do know I'm doing my best. Do you know what I want to acknowledge right now? Okay. Is that so this week I'm premenstrual and we're packing to go away.

Are you going to cry? No. Okay. It's just a lie. It's just a lie. It's me. I'm projecting. And this Sunday Richard made this like we've got one

of those cast iron Dutch ovens and you made this amazing like chilli with, I don't know, pork belly and some other like slow cooked meat and then like these almond meal cookies and just having the fridge full of sustenance is like yeah I really appreciate that is that what you were thinking of yeah I was just thinking it's it's all I mean it's like love language isn't it there's all these different ways and you know yes we can always improve on things but um I I appreciate you naming it because I did have a little bit of couple envy of you two last night oh right well let's let's get into the shit then

but let me tell you why because there was this really there was this beautiful moment before you shared a text from Richard and it said you I think you were in in a spring in do phase and you were feeling anxious like there was a lot going on because there's so much rising energy and you were feeling anxious and I really relate to that I often have that and then Richard said baby I love you in all your phases I'm with you 100% that was just like I melted like isn't that what we all need to hear i mean all humans um but i did have a moment of like oh they're amazing they've got it all together and it's obviously it's not true because relationships are fucking hard and aid and i 100 don't have it all together but the word that's coming to me is repair you know like it's

not about not having rupture in any relationship is it it's about okay how do we come back together after that moment and make the repair and I feel like cycle awareness gives a context for the repair yeah it's really good for that the other night we were having a bit of a moment and i think i reminded you that we've done it before we've done well before like just remind each other where we've prepared well previously and you felt really empowered by that it's like oh yeah we're good at that we're good at getting back up um yeah like on instagram there's probably lots of moments where we've been perfect couple you know all that you don't even know what i put on your marriage yeah but i yeah i really think that the um this the getting back up and just having like just from reminding yourself about

how good that person has been to you for so long. When they were in their summer. No, but also, you know, when you're getting back up or even in the worst bits. Yeah. Yeah, like just knowing how you are in all the bits of the storm. Sometimes Aidan and I say to each other,

remember we do love each other. Yeah. We have to remind ourselves. Okay, underneath the soul, we're on the same team and we say to each other remember we do love each other yeah we have to remind ourselves okay underneath the soul we're on the same team and we really love each other but the flavor of love looks different depending on where i'm at in the cycle it just does and leaning into that is really helpful could we look at a couple of the phases and how how they kind of play out for you too starting with menstruation with in a winter with um dream phase how does that how have you how do you kind of organize that as a couple like so that you can have some rest and dream time lucy like do you have you found ways to you know work with that especially as parents as well so like you we have

some google calendar strategies and what I do is I have like my predicted day one tbc as a reoccurring event and then either side of that are three days before and three days after. And I just call it a spacious week. Yeah. And that's a recurring event. I think I've invited you to that. But then you set up a day one in your calendar. And that sort of came about because, and I'm going to talk a little bit for us both, and you can interrupt me or tell your version of events,

but I think sometimes, you know, there's this idea that like men are constant and they have a 24-hour cycle and they're the same every day and we're, you know, going on this ride. But actually, you know, Richard's a really empathic, sensitive person and I feel like he kind of comes with me on the whole thing. Actually, we share a somatic acupuncturist who told Lucy this

because she knows both of our like rhythms like quite like profoundly so you've got a bit of side knowledge on this is this feeling okay yeah you can say whatever i reckon you're sugarcoating it oh okay all right cool right okay well i'll just tap into some day 25ness and. And, yeah, I was kind of like, well, there's two things that I want to say. And one of them is around, you know, like I mentioned before, fertility, trying to have a baby when you're older, you know, can be really challenging when it doesn't fucking happen. And you're still trying just to say which i don't know if you know this but we had four years of trying to conceive before arty and ivf and all that too so yeah wow okay yes you know i remember reading this book around fertility in it and it said

this book will either help you to have a baby or become the woman you were meant to be and I thought oh fuck that like that is not really what I'm after thanks very much but actually I can see how you know seven years on it there really is some truth in that and I guess you know you sort of look under every stone thinking is it this is the tightness in my hips is it childhood trauma is it past life blah blah blah and I said to Richard you know being pregnant getting pregnant being pregnant giving birth it's a very vulnerable state to be in and what if on you know day 29 slash day one i um i'm totally gonna cry what if i didn't have to ask for help and this is like you know i guess it's a stretch goal for us because i don't like asking for help i want to be able to do everything myself all the time I want to be this autonomous unit um and I want to be taken care of you know when I'm vulnerable

and what if I could lean into this knowing that for that kind of couple of days you would scoop me up and I wouldn't have to say, can you help me with this or can you help me with that or could you manage this or can you organise dinner or no, I don't want to have 10 people over for dinner or whatever the thing is. And I just knew that you were kind of holding that. And what might that tell my body about how safe it is to be held and to be supported and to know that is just in the ether

what if and so that has been i guess something we've been exploring because richard you know he's a really busy person. He's committed to a lot of really important things. He does lots of work for free for things that he believes in. And it's not like, you know, I'm premenstrual and bleeding and he's playing computer games. Do you know what I mean? He'll be working on some pamphlet for the environment or do you know so I often feel like oh you know I'm just having a small ego death here and my uterus is reorganizing itself but you know you're saving the world over there okay um and so what I was

noticing was that we'd sort of had this conversation about how to meet that vulnerability with also this view to supporting potential conception but then feeling like but I don't want to ask anything of you Richard if you're coming to this empty yourself if you're also pre-menstrual when I'm pre-menstrual we've got a fucking problem here do you know what I mean when you're also premenstrual when I'm premenstrual we've got a fucking problem here do you know what I mean when you're navigating fertility stuff I think that happens a lot because it's so taxing for both for everyone involved yeah so yeah exactly premenstrual at the same time 100% and then he was like okay I'm gonna put it in my own calendar and have my own, you know, sort of visibility on this because, yeah, it's like I need you to kind of come to this with something in the tank.

And this in a way is where the whole perfect couple thing around this just becomes undone because, like, it took me a lot longer than really it should have to recognise just how important it was and how i could build it into my um to my life and my cycles and what have you it didn't come quickly and naturally it was a bit of a fight to get me to lock it in it still is to be honest like i still if it bumps with like something that you know i've taken myself off on some other wave and it's like oh my god like okay yeah it's it's tricky I feel like I feel like it's a bit I feel like age should

be here too as like some some manly support for you because I think he would say exactly the same thing but you know when you say that it's you should have done it quicker I just look out at the world and how un-menstrually savvy it is and because of that of course it's going to take a long time like we've been tracking our cycles for what like 13 14 years and I still struggle with it it's like this is kind of a lifelong well a menstrual life cycling long thing I think we have to be kind to ourselves with that I feel and different people explore that in different ways so I guess it's like you know depending on um how you love your partner you know like the things that you do and then because obviously you don't have to have a personality transplant. Like it's literally just another layer to how you relate to each other.

And I guess the other thing is like, you know, you're probably never going to fully get it because you don't live it in your body. And so that means that we've got to keep talking about it until I go through menopause and then we can talk about that for 10 years a whole other thing yeah which is a whole other thing but also it's it's it's just connecting isn't it it's like it's part of the fabric of your life and um yeah I guess you know because the other thing is I think people often assume that you know if you're

in this work that you are just living and breathing it every single day and I mean I guess I am but you know I'm not like lifting weights on day 10 for instance like I don't that's not really important to me but for me it's really about giving women and people with periods permission to fully inhabit their bodies and then whatever else that opens up that's the really interesting bit and that's that's that's the portal that it that it gives you you know and like i talk to women all the time who are you know moving on to menopause talk about that experience and not being able to share that with their partner. And, you know, it's the world that we're in and where things are at, but it's such a missed opportunity because it's also just something that you're going through and that you're interested in and, like, yeah,

we can do it together. Aid is really into AI and i could not be less interested but he's he really does try to get interested in my menstrual cycle so i really do try to get interested when he's telling me about data engineering and the latest ai breakthroughs and like sometimes i'm like going through to do this in my brain a little bit but i really try you mentioned love language earlier and that's really relevant here too like that yeah the way we love each other is different yeah because it's I mean it's like any of those sort of quizzes like even the Myers-Briggs stuff or whatever people do now like I could do that at every different point in my cycle and get a different answer and I was just thinking that the other day and I was like am I actually an INFP or did I just

do it and I think that's an interesting thing to think about throughout the cycle as well is like having a conversation with your partner about your preferred love languages or how you like to give or how you like to receive or to be met and then exploring how that changes because I mean you would feel a difference in the way that I love you throughout the month and what I have to offer and what's available and is there just like a phase in the cycle every month where you're like oh this is a we have to be careful around this bit I just want to say before you answer this that you can say whatever you like and i know that i'm day 25 but um yeah you were safe i'm joking i'm really joking uh well i don't know i well i do know yeah, you are, you can be scary.

Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, like it's, there are times when, yeah, honestly, like I can't say, I can't be myself. I can't say what I want and, you know, express my feelings in an honest and frank manner. It's just not the time. And, you know, like that's something that I think we've actually been working on that stuff in like in some ways.

Like we mentioned the acupuncturist this morning and you know we um uh yeah we we do actually sort of work on that i don't think it's just that's just what it is because i'm in the take phase um but yeah that's a real thing like i i'm in the kitchen i'm walking around the house and it's just like uh yeah i'm just gonna do the laundry and that's what i'm gonna do and i'm just gonna i don't know just get on with it just make the house a bit easier to to to be around and to deal with and that's the best thing i can do at the moment there's no point trying to have you know like these full-bodied you know fully engaged conversations at every moment in the month that i mean who is that evolved like it's not really a thing like sometimes as a man like or as a whatever as anybody it's like it's just it's just time to do the laundry laundry man

well yeah it's also this thing around like yeah relationships needing to be the same all the time like i mean i don't know what it's like for two people who do have a cycle or two people who don't have a cycle i guess there's other you know rhythms that go on as well i mean it can be scary being premenstrual it's like yeah it's it's it's it's amazing how how that crash can just really color your perspective on everything and just how brought to your knees you can get and you can go from feeling like oh I've got this project and that project and everything's tickety-boo and I'm just you know got the world on a string la la la and then like you know the wheels can start to fall off and your physical sensitivity is like off the charts and then you've got to deal with all this domestic stuff and then there's other layers of family stuff and it's like

I just would like my own hotel room for a few days and you know and really to be fair, like if we're sort of looking at how humans may have lived a bazillion years ago, we were never meant to be two people being everything to everybody, to our children in isolation from our community and from our people and our kin and other women and other men. And it's like modern life is hard it's so isolating and I just feel like so much of what I do is tell people to have baths and naps and you know be kind to themselves but ultimately the world can be really harsh and overstimulating stimulating and exhausting and yeah I think like there's a lot of demands on our relationships and yeah it's like it's a lot I totally agree one of my the things I say to myself a lot I try and

remember to say to myself I probably should put a reminder in my phone is go and talk to your girlfriends right now like when I'm around that day 23 24 and I want to unleash a world of hell upon aid and tell them everything that's wrong with him and yeah like no Soph you're just feeling the pressure of all of that you just described so true like go and connect with the people in your life who get it which which is the other women, especially the other mamas at the moment. It's just so good. And, you know, when I look back at how I treated that part of my cycle before I really knew how to channel it and I, yeah, I, you know, I would try and fix my boyfriend, you know, because that was what was right in front of me and clearly what was wrong with the whole situation. And actually, you know, I just feel like that energy didn't have anywhere to go.

And, yes, we weren't right for each other and, you know, it's up to him to know what needed to be fixed or not. But just, yeah, that permission to sort of feel all of the things and um be with yourself and to be with that uh discomfort um and then to have that you know in yourself and then to be able to have that in a relationship where, you know, you've got that shorthand that this isn't the shape of our lives forever and, like you said, reminding each other we do love each other and our relationships ebb and flow as well.

It's like, you know, just because the waves are coming in and out doesn't mean. Yeah, there's seasons to relationships. There are seasons. Yeah, yeah. i remember michelle obama saying look if you're married for 50 years and 20 of those years are really happy you've done really well like thank you that's a more realistic goal for me hey i want to honor your time um i just want to share something this is from another text that you sent richard that you don't know is out there in the world but i just want to share it as kind of perhaps for the for the men listening and thank you for listening all the way through if you are men is like

something that you said to lucy when she was on day 24 and it was a moment of doubt for you Lucy had said something like um I'm an artist taking the menstrual cycle into a corporate space like obviously this is going to feel hard and I'm going to question what the heck am I doing and Rich Richard you sent a message saying I love you you're an incredible person with a future full of love and deep purpose and again i had a like melting moment and i think you shared in the message lucy you know for anyone who doesn't have someone saying that to them in this phase of their cycle you know here's a message for you because that's generally what i need to hear around that time so for anyone listening quote Richard do you know I feel like it would be really remiss as well um to not also add that you know

you actually have supported me to do this work and to get this far and you might not know what single day I'm on all the time but I wouldn't be doing this in this way if it wasn't for the way you have supported me to work in all the ways that I work and that's massive um well thank you for saying that i i mean i i have a responsibility to you like you're a shooting star like you're a mischievous wildcat with a crazy idea that is a really beautiful one um and uh yeah i got you you were what i got And I had to do what I can to, like, you know, let this thing that is bigger than you, you know, to just give it its best shot. And my role, this is hilarious, actually. The other day, I was talking to a somatic acupuncturist. And, and she, she, she sort of practices a bit of chinese medicine and she was like reading my

pulse and like she was going off into the third eye and saying you know how i am and what was going on and she said think about you is you know lucy is the dancer and you are the pole. Oh, my God. She was like, Lucy is this amazing dancer and I can just see her dancing, but she really needs the pole, you know. Like you can't be like this fabulous dancer without. I think people would say, you know, you need the rock or you need some foundation. She was like going into this like basically this stripper metaphor like and this is like a really like she's a full guru it's like classic i don't think she was really thinking about what she was saying she was just she was

just channeling and suddenly like she's channeling lucy as this exotic dancer but I'm the pole and I take my role as the pole and it's lovely that to feel that gratitude but it's been a great ride honestly like I don't it hasn't been torturous and difficult it's just been a wonderful creative enduring and very rewarding path for us because I just see so many women who have we thank Lucy for the information that she's she's helped you know bring to them and it's pretty it's it's really really really really touching so I'm just you know I'm pretty thrilled to be a part of it and I never thought I'd be on a stage like in the theatre show. I just never saw that coming. And it's probably at this point that we should mention

that you're about to get touched by a lot more because we're going to do this show at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And in terms of endurance, it is going to be an endurance. Yeah, there's a lot of shows. How many shows are you doing? We're doing 25. Wow. We're really doing 25.

You say this to me every time. I actually just don't accept that. I just don't think that's what's happening. We've got one day off. A whole menstrual cycle of shows. Yeah. We'll be nine shows in. I'll be like, are we, is that nearly, are we nearly done?

That's amazing. And when does that start? It starts on the 1st of, well, the 29th and 30th of July will be at the Aberdeen Performing Arts Festival. And then on the 1st of August August we start our run at Edinburgh Fringe at the Roxy Assembly Theatre which is an enormous old church and um wow what a venue that's great yeah I know and um yeah and then we're every day until the 24th of August. I've taken one day off in which to be fully premenstrual on the 19th of August.

Are there any family-friendly ones, like in the afternoon? Can I come on the train with Artie and come and watch one? How old is Artie? Three and a half. Oh, that's so cute. He would be probably equal youngest that we've ever had like we've had some four-year-olds have we had three-year-olds there's all ages i mean i generally if there's lots of kids in attendance i won't drop too many f-bombs but um he gets a few of those in this house anyway so

well do you know what i mean he also talks about vulvas a huge amount amazing well done fantastic I think I went a bit too far because he's just he just keeps talking about vulvas they're pretty incredible I mean I think he's just saying what everyone's thinking but speaking of vulvas you're also going to be at the Vagina Museum. Yes. Launching your audio book. Yes. Yes. That is the 27th of July and I've been making this audio book for way too long. I had this idea that I wanted to speak, I wanted to narrate the phases

while I was in them, which I have done. And I put music in there and, yeah yeah it's just been such a joy to make and now it's finally finished and yeah when I realized that the vagina museum existed I just thought that's probably where I belonged yes yes so good hey you two you've been so incredibly generous I'm really really grateful i knew this was going to be a great conversation but we went so many places i didn't even imagine and yeah thank you so much i really really appreciate you both we really warmed up didn't we we got a bit of a slow start was it i don't know it was all great you're fantastic sophie honestly this podcast i just i can't believe the breadth of

content that you traverse and all of the different all of the room in this world for all of the different people playing in it you know it's just like it's so cool It's such an incredible resource. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you. It's all there. Yeah. Thank you. Well, go well. Enjoy your 25 nights. That's amazing. Good luck with it. Take care, both of you. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us, Sophie.

Bye-bye. How amazing was that? I am really moved by how willing Lucy and Richard were to just invite us right into their process. And I'm curious what it sparked for you if you're in a relationship. Has it given you any inspiration for how you could practice cycle awareness together? You can always write to me at sophieatredschool.net. I would love to hear from you. And I'd also love to hear if there are people that you would like us to interview. If there are topics you'd really love us to cover, you can always write to me, sophieatredschool.net. Thank you for joining us this week. Thank you for being with us all the

way through to the end. If you don't already, please subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen on Spotify or Apple or wherever it is and tell your friends about this episode. If there's someone who's in a relationship and wanting to bring cycle awareness more alive, then please forward this episode to them. All right, I will be with you again next week and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.