The Menstruality Podcast - 160. What Black Cyclical Wisdom can Teach us About Hope, Peace and Belonging (Dr Cre Dye)

Episode Date: August 22, 2024

Today we’re exploring Black cyclical wisdom through the lens of the life story of an extraordinary woman who left a profound legacy of cyclical heart and body intelligence, with Dr Cre Dye, who serves as the Menstruality Justice and Inclusion Educator at Red School. Dr. Cre has served her local, national, and international communities with heart, mind and body activism for over 25 years as a mental health therapist, yoga teacher/trainer and university professor.This is part two of a series of conversations with Cre about the cyclical wisdom she received from her Grandmothers. In episode 138: Indigenous Cycle Wisdom and Menstrual Rituals, we heard the story of Cre’s first nations Granny, and today we’re hearing what she received from Mama, her Black grandmother.We hear how Mama grew up picking cotton in Mississippi, was widowed young, then left an abusive relationship and travelled alone in the 1960s with her eight children all the way to Missouri, to go on to foster over 60 children and become a force of love in her community. And how, through every single moment of adversity she faced as a Black woman, she found her way to claim rest, rise up and embody hope in the face of hate. We explore:Menstrual Cycle Awareness as the “sacred study of me”, how we are all sacred texts, and our cyclical wisdom is the words on the page. What Cre learned from her interviews series with Black women and their menstrual cycles, about how we can all reclaim the cyclical wisdom that we’ve known all along. The ongoing medical racism that Black women and Women of Colour face, including the myth that Black women have higher pain thresholds, why Black women are two to three times more likely to develop fibroids, and 50% less likely to be diagnosed with endometriosis than white women, and what we can all do about it. ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyDr Cre Dye: @credyeyoga - https://www.instagram.com/credyeyoga

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here with me today. We're exploring black cyclical wisdom through the lens of the life story of

an extraordinary woman who left a profound legacy of cyclical heart and body intelligence. With the wonderful Dr. Corrie Dari Dai who serves as the menstruality justice and inclusion educator at Red School and as you'll see she's an incredible storyteller and I personally left this conversation feeling so deeply moved as if I'd just spent an hour sitting at the feet of a great sage and I hope you feel the same. So Dr. Cree has served her local, national and international communities with heart, mind and body activism for over 25 years as a mental health therapist, yoga teacher and trainer and university professor. This is part two of my series of conversations with Cree about the cyclical wisdom she received from her

grandmothers. So in episode 138, Indigenous Cycle Wisdom and Menstrual Rituals, we heard the story of Cree's First Nations granny and today we're hearing what she received from Mama, her Black grandmother. We hear how Mama grew up picking cotton in Mississippi, was widowed young, then left an abusive relationship and travelled alone in the 1960s with her eight children to go on to foster over 60 children and become this force of love in her community. And how through every single moment of adversity she faced as a black woman, she found her way to claim her rest, to rise up and to embody hope in the face of hate. I feel so grateful to be able to share her story with you all. Let's get started with what black cyclical wisdom can teach us about hope, peace and belonging with Dr. Cree Dye. well good morning dr creed i by the sea in heaven over there

how's how's hawaii feeling and how are you feeling cyclically today you said the word heaven i usually say that i say why would I be upset if I'm in heaven and technically cycle day I wouldn't say 24 um so I like the way that I've been coming into my time of retreat and what a you know beautiful place or location to retreat just to paint a picture for our listeners Cree sitting on a balcony with the beautiful wide blue ocean behind her and lush greenery all around. And you look so relaxed as well. You look so happy and in your body and relaxed.

And I'm happy because any day I get to sit down with you is a good day. We have a good time, don't we? So yeah, how's day 24 feeling for you you know I've been I was feeling my crossover days and it was interesting because I told myself that it seems like every single time I experience crossover days it feels different every single time and so I just sit in it I sit in it with curiosity and I do a lot of writing, but I also just also ask myself to be quiet because I don't want to say things that just

come out of like this, this space of like, blah, blah, blah.'t know what I mean I do I get it um and I feel like last time we spoke you were saying that you could feel like you were heading perimenopause was happening yes last time I got 48 days another time I got 21 days you know so I've always been a regular regular bleeder regular cycler and so lately it's like oh when are you coming girl I'm gonna wait for you but I definitely energetically still experience those seasons and those crossover days and the void and all of those things. I definitely, and it seems like they're bigger than you. And like extended in autumn, is that what you're experiencing? Yes. But I've really taken note every single phase, every single season, sister,

I say you're only extended because it's necessary. So what do I get to receive? Right? I don't resist it. I don't reject it or say, ah, enough. It's just, oh, you're extending because there is more for me to see here. Even if it's really uncomfortable. Even if it keeps me away from my preferences. So that's what I've been talking a lot with my own children is that may you accept when it's not your preference and accept it with curiosity you write that discomfort and how like my daughter was just telling me yesterday she's like mom this is uncomfortable and I just want to get away from it this feeling and I was like just see what it has for you first. Shani often speaks about this about that menstrual cycle

awareness is this practice of leaning in getting curious embrace what embracing is a strong word i mean um turning towards turning towards what is with curiosity and then seeing what it's a gateway to what it's a which isn't which is different to toxic positivity and that's the tricky part of like sometimes I think can we accept that two things can be truth at once can be true at once so I accept that this is uncomfortable but I also accept that this is good right and can I move in that that two things can be true at once? Because many of us believe that, no, you know, it's uncomfortable and that's it. But can we believe and accept that? Yeah.

These two things are here at once, just like two emotions can be present at once. And they can just be fear and excitement. Right. Or sadness. I feel like this is like the whole of the teaching of the second half of the cycle is really death exists death exists yes we will dissolve you know we'll dissolve menstrually we'll dissolve out of these physical bodies one day and that's what we have to deal with in this life you know somehow we have to reconcile that fact in the menstrual cycle gets you know we get to practice it a little bit each month guess what that brought me to a statement from my grandma from mama and I know we're here to

talk about mama today death exists let me tell you what mama used to say mama just she's just this brilliant being that just she would say quotes or say things that just came from her heart I always call it her heart wisdom like she had a sacred heart wisdom and mama used to say you just brought up death she used to say we say something like no well you got to do this you got she say listen y'all I ain't got to do nothing but stay black and die those are the two things that she said those are the two things that I have to do is stay black and die those are the two things and we used to think like this lady what is she talking about but if you sit back and think about it Sophie J it's like in reality that's it those are two things that as a black woman that she had to do that she that it was inevitable she was going to be black and she was going to

and I think the wisdom that came from her like I just sit sometimes with sentences from her you know with just and I place her uh in a space of like the a great teacher a sage you know can you introduce us to mama and maybe through the lens of well hang on back up so in our first conversation we were speaking about what inspired you to get connected to your cycle and where you tracked it back to was your two grandmothers and in our last conversation we spoke about your first nation's grandmother and indigenous menstrual um menarche ritual so it's a hot beautiful conversation and then you were saying and then there's mama so can you introduce us to this character in your life i would love to sophie j let me say i one time you said, it was at a workshop that you were

offering. It was a while ago. And you said 99.9% of all beings on earth follow cycles. And it's the humans, the 0.1% that live outside of natural cycles. And so I'm bringing this back to mama in this way. I observed this woman living cycles, no matter what was put before her, no matter what was afforded her. It was almost like I observed and learned how to watch her picture that I always imagine. I was once in her womb, in my grandma, in my mom, right? And I imagine as a young, as a young mom, she was, it was very, you know, during that time, she was picking cotton. She was a little girl who loved education, but at sixth grade, she could no longer go to school. She had to go work in the cotton fields. So young, you know, married. And my mom was the second oldest. So she's this young teenage, teenage woman, married, very young. And I just imagine being in her womb and she had, she would

have to walk down the street. And like, if a white person walked by, she'd step down and put her head down, you know, like those types of things. But the most amazing thing that I think about is how she always would rise. So I think about like how she always would rise up. And so in Mississippi, young mother, birth four children with her first husband. Jim Crow kills her first husband. Just the life of Jim Crow. The South kills her first husband.

She moves up north, north to St. Louis, Missouri, East St. Louis, remarries, has four more children. She's got eight babies. Right. And for a short stint, she lives with an abusive husband. Now, let's remember during that time, like if we're thinking 50s, 60s, you know, 1960s, a woman doing this by herself, eight babies. She rents a U-Haul truck, the kind that, so a U-Haul truck is this huge truck that it has this slide up door and down, no windows or anything in the back. In the middle of the night, steals away her eight babies and her drive up to Peoria in Illinois to get away from this abusive husband. Yes. You hear me? This woman, like I'm getting chills because, oh my goodness. Right. She takes her eight babies, moves up there, temporarily living with a sister. And she works at an addictions facility in the kitchen. So at this time she has

eight babies and always picture her. She always talks about how she had to have her baby. She said, I have two on one hip, two on the other hip and a couple on my leg. She said, no matter what I'm making away. And so working in addictions facility in the kitchen and eventually moving herself up to run in the facility with a sixth grade education and eventually getting her GED. But I always think about what she used to tell me also is that, you know, it's a whole lot of people with book smarts. She said, listen, girl, you go get your education and you have your book, your book book learning but you also have to have your heart learning like she said a lot of people know how to use their brains but not everyone knows how to use their hearts right and I just feel how how fortunate I am to have been guided by such a being that constantly brought me back to my heart.

And in that, I think about living in cycles and I think about the four seasons and in my research and in my writing lately, how I framed it when I write about my grandma, I write about her season of retreat, her season of rest, her season of rising and her season, her season, she died trying to still help people and be in relationship with others. And to me, that is the, that is her in her cyclical living where she had to steal away, steal away as a black woman, right? Even with all the things that are relegated to black women, she had to steal away her ability to process through adversity while holding herself. And her eight babies. And it was and then she remarried in Illinois.

And that's the granddad that I knew and grew up with. She had my aunt Tasha was the last baby. So she had nine babies. But wait, that's the thing before I was born my grandmother always had foster children so I have extended like cousins and she ended up adopting at least seven of them but in her house all the time in and out the house. I write about this also, just like that experience of being in a household and hearing the caseworker come drop someone off. And I remember just listening to the children in their breath when they would be crying and they'd go in the

room with my grandma and she would just be holding them. And I always would just listen at the point where they stopped crying and breathing so hard. And I just imagined them in her arms or on her lap. Right. Until they were able, her nervous system was able to help calm them, but always have foster children in and out. the baby she birthed you know she had I call them earth babies she had all these earth babies and I see that that same movement that same life living within me yeah um such an honor so that's the picture that's who that's who we're speaking about I've moved by so many things one thing then when you were speaking about watching mama help these babies to regulate to co-regulate and I think about the book that you're writing little nervous systems and I wonder you, how much did you receive just from osmosis from Mama that now is coming to fruition through this book and through all the work that you're doing with families and children? I love that you asked that question because my writing coach, she definitely she's constantly when she'll read a passage that I've written, She said, bring mama into this. Like I'll be writing. And a lot of the

wisdom comes from like things that mama said to me or things I observed her doing, or just even like my research. So I'm trying to integrate all of this, like ancestral wisdom with neuroscience, with, you know, just some common sense and my experience of being a mother. Right. So think about melding, like bringing all those together. And I think that I know that it's grounded in what I observed with mama. She's my research foundation. What a muse. What a muse, right? I was also touched by when you said she had to steal her rest. I'm thinking of everything that I've learned from Tricia Hersey at the NAP ministry about black women and rest and the realities of that in our world and I'm always aware of it when we speak about rest at Red School and when we speak about rest on this podcast

what that means for different people in our world and to think of how that radical act of stealing that rest of claiming that rest even amidst everything I just I have chills again you know that it's so huge and I wrote I remember like sometimes I'll picture my grandmother um and I write I don't know if I'll picture my grandmother and I write. I don't know if I've told you this before, Sophie J. Every morning I get up and write and I call it my morning pages. And it wasn't until my grandmother's funeral did I learn that she used to write. So at church, at her funeral, she was on the drama, the drama committee.

And one of the women got up and said that she wrote a play. And I thought, I never knew that mama wrote. So when I learned that mama used to write, I think about the fact that she was not afforded the space to just have a, to just have a journal every day and to get up in the morning and write. So that what, that inspires me. I'm like, I'm going to write because she couldn't. So that's stealing away. And I remember one day, and I have it here. I wrote, I wrote, I thought about mama as this young girl, like this little black girl in Mississippi, you know, and with her siblings. And then that's

another layer of, she had nine siblings herself. Well, eight siblings, it was nine of them, but she was in Mississippi and she was dealing with colorism, not just socially, but also within her family. But she was a darker sister. She wasn't one of the lighter sisters, right? And I always imagined like her sitting and if she could write. So this is something that I wrote, real short words, right? I wrote, and I thought, I wrote about mama writing this to black girls. I said, may you not cry for lack of rest. We know you get tired. We support your rest. We know it's less safe for you to be rested. You are worthy even when you are resting. May you not give yourself to the lies of capitalism and white supremacy because

personal activism is social change. No one's going to invite you to rest except you, girl. My grandma would say that a lot of times. She said, you just need to go sit down. Just go take a rest. Like that's where you gather yourself when you go sit down. Or she'll say, go sleep on it. And she'd always tell me, like, if I get worked up or something's going on, she said, just go be still for a little while.

So much more than the stillness yes when it came to you doing your research it was it was around african-american women and their menstrual practices right yes i've done several studies sophie j so i have one specifically with um black women in their cycles and then I've looked at this concept of strong this strong black woman like that's rewriting that like what does that mean but really focusing on we must locate ourselves within our research we write our own stories we share our position in this world before we write about the world we must locate ourselves ourselves. So yes, like I'm passionate. Tell us more about that. We locate ourselves first.

Oh, locating ourselves and thinking about the stories. Oh my gosh. There's so many writers out there, Black women that have written about like, who else has told our story? Who else tells our story? And when they tell it, it definitely isn't a story of a strength, right? It's this victimization. Okay, here's an example. I'm thinking about some reading where it was described how in the Victorian age, like white women were seen as like just silly, like little girls, just not wise, just silly little girls. And then you have these colonizers that go down to Africa and the description in a story they told about who these black women are. You know, they said there's these little girls. And then you have these colonizers that go down to Africa and the description and

the story they told about who these black women are. You know, they said there's these, these strong active black bodies, these women who are there to birth and they have a scant cloak, like their clothing is scant. And I'll mind you, they're in a tropical environment. So their clothing is definitely, you know, for comfort. And so the story just from the beginning, like the stories that have been told about Black women and how we tell it would look very different. Just like I think about the story about our cycles. Once upon a time, the way it's been told. But when we tell it, when we talk about our retreat, our inner fall, we don't call it

PMS or she's being a bitch or, you know, we don't talk like that. We wouldn't talk that way about ourselves. So I think about Black women locating themselves and telling their own story. This includes coming to terms with who we are and how we came to be and how we came to do the work that we do, right? It's just so many layers to it, the capacities to cope and tolerate uncomfortable situations, right? Like just, we tell our stories from this place of empowerment, not from this place of weakness or victimization.

Like the lies of, like you said, the strong Black woman, the angry Black woman, all the different stereotypes that come from white supremacy. So just to bring back to Mama, how was your research inspired by Mama? As we're talking, I'm like, wow, this is her legacy living through you. You know what I think about the most? And I think it's about, it's something about who she was that sets me apart. I know that every good story starts with hope, right?

Every good story starts with hope, Sophie J, right? And people need a story of hope as much as they need food. Yes. And I think about how mama, that's who she was. Like her, her, her, her voice, her story, her words never was, oh, I'm just tired today. I'm overwhelmed. She, her voice to us was get up and do what you got to do. You know, it always was like, you can rest, you take some time for you, but then you get up and you keep going. Right. And I, it brings me to even a few, a few months ago, I was doing some writing and kind of working on this chapter where I was including mama. And I called one of her sisters, her younger sisters, my Aunt Mary. I think my Aunt Mary is close to 80 now. And she said I was talking to her and I say, you know, I'm just getting information. And she said, I want to talk about your grandma to you. Let me tell you something. She called her B. She said, you know, just all my life, I would call B on the phone and you get on the phone and

you may call her and feel discouraged and feel like life ain't good. And you just want to give up. She said, but you listen, by the time you will get off the phone with B, you'll feel 10 feet taller. She said, you just feel like you could stand up and do anything so bringing it back to her like just I get to tell a story of hope that's how my story that's how the story lives within me there there isn't a story of um I can't that definitely I've never thought that I can't do something and I remember her telling me like I function from approval not for approval when I was created I was already approved I'm already all right like she's like that you already good girl yes that worth that's the menstrual the menstrual blessing just coming at you all day long through her you know I just have a direct experience of this the necessity of hope because

here right now in the UK there are riots from far-right racists and it's fucking heartbreaking and I just was looking for some hope and I found this organization called Hope Not Hate. It's a beautiful organization and they are, the whole community is coming together after these riots in Sunderland and Manchester and Rotherham, very close to me. I'm in Sheffield. And the whole community is coming together to clean up the mess, to clean up the mess of all this hate with love and with hope. And they're like making tea for the police officers and everyone's having chips you know chips and tea that's the love language of

the UK you know cups of tea and it's so generative and it's I lose faith sometimes but talking here when you speak about mum and I'm remembering that that love and that hope is always stronger than the hate. Always. Sophie J, I have chills. My soul is in agreement. Do you know that we have, we're parallel. We are the same. We are mirrored. In Nashville, I live an hour north of Nashville.

You have the same thing happening where you have these men standing on the overpasses with these flags, with the swastika. Can I get it out? Swastika. And they have flags and they're just standing there and walking and marching. Yes. And then you have the I see on social media, these large group of people just coming out in love. They're just coming out. They're coming out and just being present in love. And that's it. And, you know, I think about that is the only thing my grandma taught me, Sophie J. When I would face challenges and I mean, I faced, you know, going through, and I know it hurt her to hear me talk about, even when I was in middle school, like little, little racist boys that would throw slurs at me or say things. Even when I grew up

into my adult life, she would say, but you be right. You keep your heart right. She always would say that, but you be right. That was her thing is like, but you keep yourself right. You don't do what they do. You show up as love. You be right. And that's what she constantly would do. She said, because that's who you are.

So powerful. Yes. And if I know that, Sophie J, if I know that, like you think about, like you think about like I said a story and how we need a story as much as we need food if I know that and I know that that type of hope and love lives inside me and she made it through Jim Crow Mississippi and moved up north and abusive you know like all these dark spaces that she's been in if I know that that that lives in me, why would I not live it out? Right. Even for those communities where you know what I've been doing lately when I we have I'm in Kentucky and that's, you know, the south of the US extreme racism in spaces like they're going to make sure they wake up violent with their Trump flag and come put it in your face or they'll put a rainbow flag up and put an X over it. You know, that type of like they wake up with violence. And so I still think in my mind, how can I meet them at the doorway of their heart?

How can I be human first? Right. How can I let love be my flag instead of me wanting to, like what the human response a lot of times would be, we want to show up with our flag, right? You know, and what if love is my flag? What if just me showing up and being interested in them is my flag? And that's what I've been doing lately. Like where I know, you know, I know when I walk into a space and it's like, I'm not welcome. And you know what I do? I just smile and say, good morning. What y'all up to in here? Right?

I'm coming with love. You may not energetically take anything from me in this space when I'm coming in love. You may not try to shift me towards your hatred. You may not. And that's what I learned from mama. I saw it in her. In everything that woman did, I saw it mama I saw it in her in every in everything that woman did I saw it I saw it and it's so amazing to me that she didn't have to do that she didn't have to she had a thousand opportunities to to collapse and give up oh if I told you all the stories that I observed like even

the way some of my uncles were treated, like black men. And my uncles are these huge, big brothers, you know, big black men that just when they walk into a space, Sophie J, their existence is questioned just because they walk into a space, right? And she had to observe her babies being treated certain ways. And she still showed up with love. She still, even when they, I remember when one of my uncle tells a story when he was on the football team in high school and it was an all-white team and he was like one of the outstanding black players you know and it was his turn to be captain and he said that he remembers like he waited he worked hard for it and at the last moment the coach says no he's not going to be he chose his white boy who was younger who didn't

have experience and just the devastation he felt and how my grandma had to still be kind to this man while he mistreats her baby right neglects his opportunity and she still showed up with love, right? And to be able to process that, to be able to stay healed and whole, healed and whole in that. That's what I think about all the time. How do I maintain wholeness when those types of situations are constantly coming? And in your research, we talked about this, I think before our first conversation you did this qualitative piece of research with 12 black women so one of the things that I remember you one of the roots of that research was you recognized that they were they were coming from a place of disconnection

with their cycles but each of them found their way back to their womb yeah every time I had a list of like what I'm writing um I'm writing an article from that work and I just have a list of how all of these women even in like you think about what we're forced into they still would find themselves way back, find their way back. And that to me is kind of like that still in the way, like I'm still in the way. I'm still in myself back. I'm still in my cycle back to me. The story of how I bleed, the story of this experience, I must go get it. And I think about, you know, like Harriet tell me through the middle of the night, I got to go and go get myself, go get the things that nourish me.

Go get what I already know. But you keep trying to take from me, right? As a therapist, Cree is trained and certified in a variety of interventions that focus on the integration of counseling, neuroscience, and body-based radical healing processes. Ten years ago, she began a deep dive into menstrual cycle awareness as a tool to support the mental and emotional wholeness of individuals, couples, and families. And now menstrual cycle awareness is embedded in all she does. And on the Red School Menstruality Leadership Programme, she offers a beautiful workshop to facilitate what she calls inner change for social change and support us all to work with menstruality in a way that is just and inclusive. The Red School Menstruality Leadership Programme is the world's first leadership training anchored in the power and wisdom of the menstrual cycle and menopause the doors are open for the 2025 MLP you can find out all about it at menstrualityleadership.com and we're hosting a live event on September the 25th

all about it and you can register for that at menstrualityleadership.com okay let's pick up the conversation with Cree and we're getting right back into talking about Harriet Tubman. For anyone who doesn't know the story of Harriet Tubman, she escaped from enslavement in 1849 and travelled 90 miles alone to reach the Free State of Pennsylvania and undertook 13 incredibly dangerous, hugely courageous missions to rescue enslaved people through a network called the Underground Railroad. There's a film about her life called Harriet. It's absolutely amazing. She's played by Cynthia Erivo. It's mind-blowing. It's really worth a watch. Okay, let's get back to Cree.

And Harriet Tubman is such a figure, you know, in the U.S. as far as for Black women. And how here's how I don't know if you've got a chance to meet with Octavia Rahim yet. It's coming. It's coming. OK, so I'm in a session with Octavia Rahim once and she says this. And Sophie J., it blew my mind. I've never not thought about it. She says, I want you all to think about the type of imagination that Harriet Tubman had to have to be able to say she's watching her people get it is again why would I not get up every day and tap into my creative powers why would I not sit with my cycle and say what do you have for me on my first day of bleed not believe in what lives inside of me why would I not there is I can't I can't I can't fathom it I can't fathom I can't fathom folding when those type of stories have nourished us as women, just period, as women.

Right? She's watching all these women have their babies stripped from their arms, having her sisters be used as just like a body to birth another body to go work someone else's land. Like she still said, but we going to go. Y'all come on. We will be free. We will be free. And she did it. She did it. And you know what I think about? I think about all the other women that have done that. And I'll tell you what I remember. I don't know if people know this story. It was a movie that came out years ago. I think it was like Blindside or something, but it was about this white family that took this black football player and he was in high school. And, you know, the story of like the wife, the white family saving his black, bringing in. And I just thought like, how crazy is that when that's what the grandmas I know do all the time. That's what I've been

doing since before I was born. Like that story of the grandma, I know do all the time. That's what my grandma been doing since before I was born. Like that's the story of the grandma, right? That is the story of the black family where some cousin coming to live or somebody, their house burned down and somebody had to come. You know, that's all I know to be. That's how I watch mama live.

Like she's always like, y'all, we gonna do this because they ain't got this. And so now we gotta make this happen. You that's it that's that's the story and I thought wow they made a movie out of that they need to go drive around like a black woman it's happening all the time that's that's just what I know to be community was in her blood and bones it was and it's in yours like it couldn't it what is just how life should be how life is we look after each other we take care of each other belonging the belonging sister the belong and the connectedness is is as necessary as our breath a sense of belonging

being seen and heard and valued that belonging she instilled that in me and that came through in your study too in your conversations yes belonging was key community was key community was nourishment in this journey of reclaiming the cycle and the cycle wisdom that came through so many good things things have come through the research of just like in my mind, the way that I approach research is I'm trying to bring humanity back to it. A lot of times you hear about these research and this data and these numbers, and none of us are a number, right? And this percentage. And I'm like, but there's a voice there. There's a heartbeat there. Let's hear the heartbeat instead of the 98%. You know, let's hear about, you know, know that the menstrual cycle has this intelligence

and it needs to be at the heart of our world. What would you say you learned from these conversations about how we can all come back to our wombs, to this wisdom that lives here? Here's what I really, really feel. And I've been really focusing on kind of like just jotting down is really what we've always known. And when we quiet down the external noise, right, when we quiet this stuff, these stories that have been given to us and we just go find us, be with ourselves. I truly believe we're all practicing it in some way. Like I found when working with this last research study,

all these women came to realization that I've been practicing my inner seasons. I have to go steal my rest, but I get me some. Right. And it may not be as much as we would like. It's not afforded to us so easily but we all have those our four inner seasons in us and when we quiet down the story that the world has told us who we need to be and we come back to ourselves i i really think like our room she's already

telling us our rooms like our inner our wisdom, our inner landscape is already saying to us what to do. And that's truly what I believe is that when we quiet down the noise, even if that looks like just getting up in the morning and saying five minutes for me, I'm going to listen. Sometimes I encourage people that I work with to say, as you start your day, just wake up and just say to your inner wisdom, just say, how are you today? And listen. Place your hands on your womb and just say, how are you today? And just listen. Right. Isn't that simple, Sophie J? But when I tell you all the people that I come across daily that don't just sit still.

That don't sit still. Here's an example. I was supervising 16 of my in the program in a graduate program that are training to be therapists. We started our meeting. I say, everybody drop a word of how you feeling right now. And, you know, anxious, worried, frustrated. They drop their word. And I said, I want everybody to read each other's words. And I want you to just feel those words as you read them. And then I want you to think about this in every environment that you're walking into. That's what's meeting you. Anxious people, angry people, worried people. So the first thing I need y'all to do, and this is definitely something for mama is to know that it's not about

you, whatever you, whatever you experiencing that it ain't got nothing to do with you. Those people are showing up that way. This is how they're showing up. And so the first thing you got to do is release that idea that it's about you. The person that's burdening you in the car, cursing you. They had that, that's going on with them before you even turn the way they didn't want you to turn right it ain't got nothing to do with you and if we could just that is like to me that is cyclical wisdom to see what's mine and what's not mine i'm picking up stuff that ain't even mine girl stop those people came in here angry. I want to take it personal. No way. No.

You're just exploding my mind a bit. Because as you're speaking, I'm feeling that the momentum that you're speaking about there of sitting in our own authority and claiming our own experience rather than being blown about by the weather of the world. It's the same momentum that you're bringing through from Mama of you can bring your hatred, your racism, your ignorance. And I'm I'm what does she say? I'll be right. I'm still going to be right. Yeah. And I'm still going to be right. She said, but you'll be right I'm I'm still gonna be right yeah and I'm still gonna be right she said but you just be right she said we like she would say like I'm still gonna carry my peace like I still got my peace no matter what you come with I still got my peace so it's like I'm really you know you say put I think you say personal growth is social justice work or or the other way around

like it's the same momentum that we're working with on the personal inner level and then we can put I think you say personal growth is social justice work or or the other way around like it's the same momentum that we're working with on the personal inner level and then we can translate that out to the outer level the inner change equals social change yes and every moment that I give I was telling someone this yesterday if you want to heal your family start with you it was a someone called me about a relationship a couple days ago I said if you want to heal your family, start with you. It was a, someone called me about a relationship a couple of days ago. I said, if you want to work on you as a relationship, just work on you. Don't think, what can I actively do to get my baby back? You know, what can I actively do to get, get my love back in good graces? You know, like just work on you and that will change the dynamics

that will change the both of you when you work on you yeah and cycle awareness is this wonderful language it's this wonderful whole universe of ideas and ways of being that calls us back to ourselves that gives us a way of seeing ourselves ways of understanding ourselves and um language to yeah describe, to know how we are. You know what I call this, Selfie J? It's the sacred study of me. Yes. Because why do people go to sacred texts?

They go to sacred texts to go learn how to be, how to live, right? How to exist. What better place to study than yourself? What better place to get information about me than me? Do you hear me? What better place to sit? And I tell young people this, you sit and start following your cycles. You start tracking your cycle. And I've even introduced to men, young men, how they have a 24 hour cycle, but you know, their, their, their hormones are shifting throughout the day. And for my son loves this. He's like, mom, you know, in the morning, I know my testosterone

is high. So I get things done. And I know in the evening that there's a shift in my attitude may not be the same. And I said, and you know, that during those times, you don't go into deep thought about anything. You just let your mind relax. You do relaxing things with your mind, right? When that, when your hormone is shifting to where you don't feel so happy or so good, right? But what better place to study than you? You are a sacred text. We all are a sacred text. Our cyclical wisdom is like, it is, it is like the chapters, the words on the pages. It is, it's of us it's a good study a good study i'm thinking about the initiation we have each in a winter when we bleed that seeing our experience of our cycle as a sacred text really helps to illuminate how that is a sacred temple time that is you know sunday church time that is whatever your spiritual religious practice is and also to think of menopause then well what is menopause in that spiritual context menopause it's the great pilgrimage home to self oh my gosh

when you literally are power are your power, right? At menstruation, you meet your power. And then throughout, you know, the first time in Menarche, you meet your power and then you live, you practice that power. And then at menopause, you be that power. And I think, and I'm thankful that I got to experience my grandmother be her power as I was growing up. I remember and it didn't get talked about a lot. But if I said if I said Sophie J and just reflect, you know, kind of hindsight and look at things. I remember when she became to be her power and how her tongue got. I want to say it wasn't sharper where it would attack others, but it was more matter of fact where this is this and this is what it ain't. This is what it is and this is what it ain't.

This is what's not going to be happening. Here's what we not going to do. Doesn't that sound like menopause? You know, that's how I describe my menopause coming up and this perimenopause experience. I feel more of this. Here's what we not going to do. You know, like the way that we give ourselves and we kind of like pacify others and we just, just go along and accept things that really deep down inside of us don't sit well with us, you know, and how we negotiate ourselves. Right.

How's that going for you? I'm loving it. And I even think about, here's another mama story. I think about, it's really coming into a season of more no, more no, right? That's our season of no, just arriving at menopause. And I remember her saying, you want to see a person's true self? Tell them no. You really want to see a person's true self, tell them, no, you really want to see how a person is. Tell them, no. I now used to think about scenarios of like telling a person, no, like they're not getting their way. And Whoa, what will you get? You know,

like what you see when you tell the person, no, I've been dropping a lot of nose about, you know, no, thank you. I'm okay. Not doing that. No, thank you you I'm okay not doing that no thank you I'm okay not yes no thank you that's it just no thank you sitting here in this conversation with you I feel so tender in my heart and so honored to be to be in your presence and to be in the presence of mama of this tremendous being and I'm also looking out at a world that for black women is full of medical racism and what this means for menstrual health and just to throw a few statistics in here not that we are the statistics I'm 100% with you on the stories we need to share the stories and there are truths that it's really important for us all to remember

so that we can dismantle the systems that are keeping them in place yeah so menstrual health black women are two to three times more likely than white women to develop fibroids. Black women are less likely than white women to get breast cancer but 40% more likely to die from it if they develop it. Black women are 50% less likely to be diagnosed with endometriosis compared to white women and they're also less likely to receive endosurgery and if they do they're more likely to experience surgical complications and there's just this ongoing myth that black women have higher pain thresholds which have all kinds of implications for for birth and for all aspects of of health so this is the situation that we're looking at and that we need to change um

and I think this came up in your study I think some stories came up in your study around this lots of stories um I first think about um just the experience of trusting this experience of trust and black women going to be supported. And I often say, like, we, when working with, like, a service provider, we service people based on how we see them. And so that's where it starts. It's just when a Black woman walks into a space, the idea of, like, the service provider, how they see that human, like you just said, this threshold of pain, that's so much higher, or even seeing her as someone that needs help and is worthy of like due process to work with her until the end. And to be able to even just look at her while talking.

And I'm imagining this because women have talked about this. They're sitting there talking about their experience, but the doctor has their back turned or the medical provider is turned away and just question, question, question. Like there's no humanity in that. There's no exchange of, I see you and this is who you are and this is who I am. Right. And I especially feel it for all my sisters who are darker skin. And, and, you know, that's the thing, like I recognize my light skin next to my dark skin cousin. Just because of that, the interaction in a medical system

will be different. And it angers me, right? It angers me that you, my cousin Tika can be sitting right here and you devalue her just because of something that she can't even control. And the way you service

her will be different. While I'm not saying I'll get the best service, but there will be a difference. And how Black women have, oh, you know what's being birthed out of this though, Sophie J. Lots of Black women are going and pursuing doula certificates, right? We're coming back. We're coming back to ourselves to know that we have to decolonize ourselves and just this dangerous medical environment, how the history of Black women being, you know, sterilized and the young ladies that I work with in high schools that they're constantly being pushed on, birth control pushed on them. Even if they have like some emotional issues, a birth control is being pushed. Does that have to do with, you know, like if she's talking about, I just feel frustrated.

I'm thinking about a young lady, a little 16 year old. She's saying to her doctor that her mom takes her to, you know, I've been feeling real anxious and sad and depressed lately. And then you push birth control pills on her. So this is just a common thing. And I think the more we can educate ourselves and each other, and most importantly, I think about how do we educate service providers? How do I tell someone, teach someone to see another human being as worthy? How do we do that? And so when I think about a lot of this work, it's really work for't, I don't think it's just white people, but I think that there's a call for us to look at who's providing the service. Who's the nurse,

right? Who's the doctor? Who's the MD? Who's the whatever? They are the ones that need the help. They're the ones that need the intervention. And how do we support? Because I think about if I go talking to Black women about this, like we know this, like this is, we like, oh yeah, yeah, that happened. I walked into the office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's just kind of like, yeah, that happens. So who needs to be educated? Who needs to be talked to? Who needs to listen to something like this? and then really sit with themselves and say like, well, what do I do when a Black woman walks in the room? You know what I mean, Sophie J? Like if you think about just, I think about women or just white women that I work with, like what do you really feel when a Black woman walks into that space?

Like to be able to go inside and look that inner change equals social change, to look inside yourself and ask that question. I've been having these intimate kind of conversations with my department chair lately. She's a white female. And I bought her this book. I got to remember the title, but it was about Dear Department Chair. It was a book written by four Black women in academia. And there's some things you need to know right so maybe we need to write a book that says dear medical world by black women here's some things

you need to know yeah i'm thinking of our audience right now you know anyone who wants to be a leader in this field that can recognizes that there is a huge movement unfolding here we all have a responsibility and particularly the white women me included yes to do that inner work to look for our own responses our own unconscious yes i sees that going on because then when we go out in the world with our menstrual inspired work or menopause inspired work the place that we're coming from is different and the social change that we can create is different and it and it can include more of us and you'd want to know the most important part about that sophie j

is for white women to stop walking in spaces thinking they're the savior or that there's this hierarchy and they know what these poor little black bodies, these poor little black, you know, these poor little children, stop that. Stop that. Like I've talked to groups like missionary groups that are coming into spaces thinking that, you know, what that space needs. How about you go in and sit and listen and observe and notice and feel and invite them and say if I would like to support but ask them what they need yeah yeah read and read and learn learn from all the amazing educators who are just tirelessly working to

educate I'm thinking of educators of color here that are just they're saying come on white women this is the way like it's all there for us I'll put I'll put lots of links in the show notes oh good I have a book also um Carla D Scott she wrote she's a researcher in the language of strong black womanhood I I like going to her work when I'm doing stuff with this because she just speaks you know just very up. But there's also here's this dynamic to Sophie J. There's this space of like as a woman of color that I don't feel like educating you, you know, just you could go. So there's this space. But then on the other hand, I also need you to hear the story of me from me. Right. So it's kind of like this space

between and I think about some of my, my yoga sisters out in the world who are just like, I'm tired. I don't want to keep teaching them. Like they need to figure out, they need to get it. And then there's some that are like, I still feel very strongly in that, like who better to tell my story than me. And so it's like this battle all the time is like I'm tired like figure it out but then also nobody can tell my story except me it's the mob paradox yes and it also speaks to me I've got so much to learn here it's not like I'm saying like I've got any of this down I am on a huge process of learning and will be for my whole life but hey the educators that

you're learning from oh man it's just there's so much emotional labor that's happening from black and brown women and educators like let's let's support them uplift them as I do the diversity equity inclusion belonging work there is always this call for, we got to bring someone in. And then my question usually would be, well, what type of budget do you have? And sometimes, often, often, Sophie J, well, that's not really in the budget,

but we need to cover it because of this, this, and this. I often get that. Well, that's not in the budget. However, that's required. We have to do it because, you know, and it's just an interesting space. And I think the way that I walk in that is that I'm honored that I live this life out and I'm honored that I've studied it. And I just really choose to walk in it with wisdom um and choose to make sure I don't let capital be the thing that drives me but also please honor the work that I'm doing right please exchange you know offer something in exchange for that it's a it's a tricky it's a tricky space for me

yeah yeah I feel mama coming through you again. When you say that, you know, I feel her strength, you know, because still in the face of all of that, let's just name what it is bullshit. You are going right, I'm going to bring wisdom. I'm not going to collude with this capitalist system that is screwing things up for so many and just keeping a few on top and I need to claim my well no you know your worth but I need to I need to I need to receive value for the value that I'm giving there it is that's it I you know what my daughter told me one time Sophie J as I was doing something she was like mom you you you worth more than free. You know that, right? Like you're you, you people should be like what you bring mom. Like I had to, like my child had to tell me this. I know my worth. However, that there is that battle of capital and just me feeling like, I really truly feel like I show up and I bring what I've studied. I bring the information and that money or compensation will come.

Like, I'm not chasing it. I just show up in my life and then all that needs to be given to me or returned to me, that will come. I want to believe that. I want to live that out. I don't want to go chasing it. I don't want to say, oh, I got to do this for this much, and I got to do this. I want it to be, I am truly living in my creative powers, and I'm sharing with this world, this life, this light that is given to me,

and I will be, the compensation will occur, the exchange will occur so that I can sustain, right? And I remember learning that from you early. It must've been a year or two ago about the sustainability in that exchange. And not to rush in as a white savior, but I, I hear that. And I go, my heart just moves to, I want to dismantle the systems that are getting in the way of that flow for you. Yeah. You know,'s the yeah human to human and that's it and how do we dance in that where you have like a white female working with a black female and and there isn't this this energy of savior energy but just sis I want to walk with you right

like how do we I feel like for me personally, I want to honor that even, I mean, let's look at it this way. Here's the thing, the privilege that I stand in. I live in a country where I have access to resources. And so when I go in spaces where there is an abundance of resource and I want to walk alongside someone that I'm privileged as an able-bodied person, I am privileged, you know, like I'm not a savior to anybody else. And because I have degrees, I am privileged. It gives me access. So how can I walk alongside somebody recognize that I'm not their healer, that I just create, you know what I do? I create a vibrational state that supports what they want. I always go, what is it that you want? Because I hope to create this climate,

this vibrational space, this state that you can get to what you want, right? And that's true belonging, sister. You're my sister. You hear me say, this is what I want, Sophie J. And can you support with some type of climate or atmosphere that I can get to what I want? And I'm hearing you on the climate and there are policies that need to change.

Yes. And in a protest against white supremacists, I want my body to be in between them and you. Yes. And that's the part of like us looking at this is life right because as you just described your body being in between I want my body to be in that space of when I think about children and you know when I think about a black man that can't get out of his car without being profiled when I think about young babies like I want my body to be in between right like we all have that right and it's funny because I then I start thinking just now Sophie J I think I want my body to be in between all those people you know who it is because I just want my body to be where where love is needed yeah like mama's was with those children yeah they show up with their nervous

system dysregulated and her she's sitting there she knows herself she breathes and they find their way back to their self themselves by being on her body it happened over and over and over again sophie j i just remember sitting in the room and the the tears and the way the kids would come in. Like, just think about that experience as a child. And I knew I observed. So that's to me, like for me, life and how precious life is. Like I've seen I've seen some things that just people couldn't imagine. But me seeing that has definitely softened my heart into just really wanting to be loved, to see little children

come into a house. All they want is their mama. And my grandma used to say, mama used to say this. She said, I don't care what that woman did. If she beat that child, if she starved and whatever, she said, no matter what, a baby still want they mama, no matter what. That's what she always said. Even if she had a child live with her for a decade she said I had to come to accept no matter what I did there's something in them that connects them back to their mama that they will always want something some type of approval some type of love from her right and I love that I love that that that we as humans get to have that. I could talk to you all night,

but that feels like a really beautiful place to close. Is there anything from mama that you wanted to share to complete today? I feel about, I feel about that all of us have someone in our life that represents like some mother, some mama energy. And if we don't, can we sit and just really feel into that? Even I remember thinking that just because somebody isn't our elder or older is a woman that they can't provide this mothering energy to us. And I feel about that. We all need some mothering. We all this mothering energy to us. And I feel about that we all need some mothering.

We all need mothering. And just, even if it's just girlfriend and girlfriend, like you, I experienced a mothering from you, you experienced a mothering from me. I just feel about because of what I know and have felt that we all need mothering. Like, may we find those people that have mothered us and just say thank you right even if they were younger than us right and that that that's I'll end with that because mama was big on gratitude she said just say thank you girl just it don't matter just say thank you wake up and say thank you you know she said get up and get up and just say thank you oh I'm taking so much from today and that is the cherry on top of a very wonderful cake thank you thank you for everything you've

shared thank you mama and it's just been a joy to be with you thank you Cree thank you sister enjoy heaven over there listen Sophie J I'm about to get out here into heaven I'll send you some love speak to you soon yes sister see you later thanks for being with us all the way through to the end if you haven't already please follow the podcast subscribe like leave us a review. It all helps to get this work out to more people. And if there's anyone who you think would enjoy this conversation, would benefit from this conversation, please forward it to them. And that's it for this week. I'll be with you again next week. And until then,

keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm. Hey, thank you so much for being with us all the way through to the end. If you've enjoyed this conversation, head over to the show notes, redschool.net forward slash podcast. I've shared lots of different links to people that Cree mentioned to different black and educators of colour and to the Harriet Tubman film. So it's really worth going and exploring all of those different links. And if you know someone who would benefit from this conversation, would love to hear about this, then please forward it to them. Please like and follow, subscribe, leave a review for the podcast. It all helps to get this work out to more people. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. All right, that's it for this week. I'll be with you again next week. And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.