The Menstruality Podcast - 168. How Conscious Menopause Can Change the World (Alexandra & Sjanie)

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

It’s world menopause month, and we’re continuing the menopause conversation we began two weeks ago, where we explored how to navigate the dark night of the soul of the menopause process (it’s episode 166), and we’re continuing by looking at the powers that the menopause initiation can awaken in us, if we refuse to abandon ourselves during this betrayal phase of menopause. In their book, Wise Power, Alexandra and Sjanie talk about menopause as being a pHd in power. When it is respected, honoured and dignified, the initiation of menopause can bring you to a place of deep peace within yourself. And even more than that, the menopause process can actually help you to grow new capacities, powers, and kinds of intelligence. It’s a huge learning curve - a massive upgrade in your skills, ready for your life’s third act.In today’s conversation we’re looking at how these powers can change us personally, and through us, how they can change the world, including;How the current conversation about menopause is unfolding in the world, why there is so much suffering and what is missing.How to work with shifting energy levels in menopause, as a gateway to more discernment, empathy and authority. How menopause enhances your imagination and intentional capacities as well as supporting you to potentise all that you do. ---Join our free event: How Menopause Awakens Your Power - www.redschoolmenopause.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey there, welcome back to the podcast. So it's World Menopause Month and we're continuing our menopause conversation that we began two weeks ago where we explored how to navigate the dark night of the soul of the menopause process. So it's episode 166 of the Menstruality Podcast.

And we're continuing this by looking at the powers that the menopause initiation can awaken in us if we refuse to abandon ourselves during this betrayal phase of menopause. So in their book, Wise Power, Alexandra and Sharni talk about menopause as being a PhD in power, that when it's respected and honoured and dignified, the initiation of menopause can bring you to a deep place of peace within yourself. And even more than that, the menopause process can actually help you to grow new capacities, new powers, new kinds of intelligence. It's a huge learning curve, a massive upgrade in your skills, ready for your life's third act. And in our conversation today, we're looking at how these powers can transform us personally and through us,

how they can change the world. Good morning, Alexandra. Good morning, Shani. Let's start with a cycle check-in. Do you want to kick us off, Alexandra? I can, Sophie. I am on about day seven or eight of the moon and um i am feeling uh kind of i don't know what the word is like yesterday i think i used the phrase a blank slate but in a good way just sort of neutral and open and sort of clean uncluttered if something was uncluttered and i still have that same quality but i'm feeling a lot more grounded in myself

I was feeling very ungrounded for a couple of days just like whoa yeah so um there's a kind of newness in me and I suppose a degree of clarity and openness but unknownness there's a feeling of unknownness with me how about you shani i'm day 17 of my menstrual cycle and i'm really at the end of the in the summer it's a bit like riding a bicycle when you've been on flat ground and then suddenly there's a bit of a decline and now the bike has a lot of momentum and I feel like if I don't engage you know and if it's in a light gear your bike just sort of starts to almost run away with itself like I need to engage a deeper gear to get some purchase on the ground otherwise like a bit like ETO might just you know keep going straight and then possibly up

up and away it's a great image Sani I used to remember feeling like I was coming down gears I feel I felt like there was more grunt in the system. That's a brilliant image. How about you, Sophie-J? Day four here, so just finishing my bleed. And life gave me some good challenges. My hubby, Ade, went away literally as my period came in. He went away for four days with work so it's

been me and my four-year-old nearly four-year-old and my dog uh and whoa that's not what I needed on my on my bleed but I was able to stay with myself through the stretch and today I'm definitely reaping some of the reward of of just being with myself even amidst the chaos and today I'm definitely reaping some of the reward of just being with myself even amidst the chaos and I feel I feel a lot of love and peace and ease in me I'm very grateful so bloody grateful for this cycle awareness practice yeah and today we're just taking on the small topic of how can conscious menopause change the world a little minor conversation so she in a way we're picking up from our last conversation about how you describe the first phase of menopause as betrayal and the challenge of this part of the menopause initiation.

And today we're going to speak about really what becomes possible when we are supported and when we refuse actually to abandon ourselves through this betrayal part of the menopause process and the kind of muscles that grows in us and the kind of powers that become available to us. Yes. I remember the challenge of writing about this because it feels so strong what we write on this something very uncompromising at work there and I feel I have to be quite big inside myself to meet this you know because it is such a powerful moment the betrayal moment of whether you really finally pick up that gauntlet that your inner critic has thrown down and you pick it up and you go you know what critic world or whatever it is i'm fucking i to say it, fucking okay.

I am okay as who I am. And it's huge that it doesn't happen overnight. But when it happens, that turns everything. That's the key that just facilitates the rest of menopause, if you like. So I think of menopause as having this kind of, there's a mystery at work at menopause. And it sort of moves me even talking about it now because I've always felt it, that there's some very deep work here around um restoring us to a

real deep connection to who we are and to our place in the world to the world and um and it's like that's at the heart of the mission of menopause is to bring us into this extraordinary place of claiming ourselves and then what can unfold from that act of just finally claiming ourselves, it's like we open another door. It's like we open the door to a very different kind of future. Yeah, and in a way, that's what we want to sort of talk about today but it opens the door to a new to a life that is utterly one's own it is a life and in that it's so interesting it sounds like it's all about me and here's the kind of irony or whatever it is, contradiction in here. The moment you feel the goodness of who you are, you step into something much bigger than yourself. And that's us stepping into serving something bigger than us in the world, if we want to.

That's what we're wired for. That's what menopause is wiring us for. When it's a process that's understood and respected and supported and honored so um stilling listening to what you're saying alexandra and like from the place i'm in which is 47 and menopause you know down the line ahead of me when i hear you say all of that, I probably a bit like you started the conversation. I suddenly feel kind of way too young and way, way too sort of unprepared for what that's going to ask of me. And, and, and as I was kind of feeling that in myself it just really reminded me of how

actually on some level you're never ready enough or grown up enough to meet that um death moment that moment of where you're of where you could betray yourself. You're never actually ready for that. It's only in living it and actually going through that experience that you do mature mature and grow so yeah I uh I find that comforting um to remember is that in a way none of us have got what it takes to meet that critical force in ourselves until we finally do. That's what makes it initiatory is that it calls on us to dig deeper and to dare in a way we've probably never dared before and to have courage like we've never never had courage before. And I think this is what to me is so complete about menopause, Alexandra, is that, you know, not only is it bringing you into this place where you are finally okay with who you are, and you so beautifully described how that okayness really puts you inside your life and therefore puts you in touch with life that you know um but more than that the whole process

of going through that experience gives you these skills like like grows these capacities and powers and abilities in you, like psychological, spiritual abilities. And so you come out of menopause, not only much more utterly who you are and much more at peace with who you are, but actually with these powers, with these powers. And I think I think I mean that's why you know we write in wise power um menopause is a phd in power because yes it's an initiation and an experience and it's this huge learning curve this massive upgrade in skills um and i find that quite exciting you too often talk about this new story of menopause you know rewriting the cultural narrative of menopause this new story and as i'm sitting listening to you i'm really reflecting on

how you're holding menopause is very different to how much, if not all of the conversation about menopause is unfolding out there in the world. And I wonder if we could unpack that a little bit at the beginning of this to really reiterate this new story of menopause. You know, one of the things you were saying, Alexandra, when we were riffing before this conversation was, there's this sense that after menopause, people just need to be put out to pasture. That's it. That's the end of the productive life. Just off you go. And what a mistake that is. What a gigantic error that is. I wonder before you talk about that Alexandra I think it's worth just kind of naming actually how

we or how I'm seeing the conversation that's unfolding yes well um and yeah so I what I'm noticing and hearing is that the symptoms connected to menopause seem to be really occupying all the airtime. The sort of distress and suffering that's happening in menopause. And there's, you know, a big conversation about how to manage that, how to deal with that. People are discussing, you know, the medical interventions, the lifestyle changes and so on. And it makes sense that that conversation is so loud because no one wants to suffer and no one wants to be experiencing distressing symptoms. It is very, very hard to get through your day and do whatever it is you have to do when you feel terrible. And so that's a very, very important conversation. But in a way, that conversation is really occupying this conversation about menopause.

And along with that, there's, you know, what Alexandra was referring to this kind of cultural attitude that menopause is the end and it's downhill and, you know, basically it's game over. You're no longer desirable. You're no longer useful. It's yeah. Why don't you just quietly go off to pasture and not be a burden on society? I'm playing. But, you know, there is that whole kind of weight of ageism around it.

So, yes, what we're really holding and the piece of the story that feels really important to us is to give context to why there is such a fallout in menopause, why it is being perceived as a design flaw and why there's so much distress and suffering, because it's not normal in inverted commas. It's not supposed to be full of distress. Menopause is a very normal, natural, organic process, very much like puberty. We go through this whole rewiring of our bodies in puberty, our whole hormonal system changes. And simultaneously, we go through this huge process of maturation and development. And we all know that that is normal and healthy, even as, you know, people in puberty are like going through something very strong and very interesting. You know, we all are aware of the profound initiation they're going through something very strong and very interesting you know we all are aware of the profound initiation they're going through um and the same is happening at menopause we're just

being our bodies are being redesigned and recalibrated in a very normal natural way and along with that we're shifting from one, one way of being into a whole other way of being. And all of that is very normal and natural. And if it can be understood more deeply and more fully and more completely, then those going through menopause, much like those going through puberty can have the compassion and understanding and support and resources and holding that's required to go through such a big life transition. Yes, we're trying to bring in this deeper context, this deeper story. So I just also just want to name that we're also not addressing all the environmental stress factors that are affecting menopause the way are the pressures of our life today the huge levels of environmental

pollutions impacting our hormones and of course the impact of stress on our hormones. So we have this onslaught of stress on many levels just from the world we live in. And that has to be very clearly named. There should be this story of initiation and evolution and that menopause is an upgrade into something else. We are stepping into a different type. We're not becoming less intelligent or less powerful. We're coming into a different kind of power, a different kind of intelligence or wiring of my brain. And we have, you know, a huge chapter of our life ahead, you know, 20, 30, 40 years you could have of living. And, and menopause is serving that next stage of your life. And it's actually prepares you just on a personal level it actually prepares you for the whole process of negotiating getting older I can feel that and how I have to keep holding on to myself and um and recontextualizing the role I play in the world because no one wants to be dismissed and this

is what happens the older you get the more less intelligent you know the more you are dismissed and it is such a it's quite a fierce battle almost to to not let that take over you know I speak as someone who's 71 now turning 70 really shifted something and this is where I'm so grateful for the experience I had of menopause not only because it brought me into this incredibly liberated place or where I'm really you know fulfilling my calling in the world so I have a real sense of purpose and meaning and contribution to life but i am experiencing my personal journey within that um expression of my calling in the world you know i'm experiencing i'm navigating um getting older within that and the different kind of perspective

that i hold powers that i hold, that I'm bringing. And this is where I'm incredibly grateful, not only for the whole story that we write about in the new story of menopause and how it's set me up for something, but that I am connected to people who are holding that too and living within that. So that, you know, I'm really thinking of all of you at Red School.

So, I mean, there are some jobs at Red School that just go over my head. I go, Jesus, that is so not my role now. Fortunately, he already knows that. But I can feel what my roles are. So, I mean, I'm working, you know, full time as full time as we work. You know, it's full on at race school. And I am. But I can feel how the role I hold. I mean, on the outside, it may look the same to everybody, but on the inside, the kind of energetics I'm holding. And it's because of this whole framework and the fact of you living within that, it really moved me saying this.

Where would I be without this? I almost want to weep now. But I am so grateful for this because otherwise I would fall into a place of increasing meaninglessness and just being seen, you know, just, isn't that an interesting phrase, just as this kind of old person. That is very bleak to me. That is so, oh, and I want to swear here, that is so fucking bleak to me that is so oh and I want to swear here that is so fucking bleak yes I'm so glad you brought that all in Alexandra and particularly this naming of the powers we have before we go through menopause are one kind of power sort of one set of powers and then the powers we have post-menopause are a different set of powers we're not going from powerful and significant to

powerless and insignificant we're just changing our hand you could say we're just stepping into like a different set of skills and powers and I'm really glad you named that because I think this is so important for people to understand because you do lose certain capacities when you go through menopause and that can feel so terrifying and frightening but if you know what is being grown in you through menopause. And that can feel so terrifying and frightening. But if you know what is being grown in you through menopause and the kind of power you're going to have post-menopause, it's much easier to surrender to that change and to trust it and to feel the kind of rightness and timeliness of it. So for people who are listening, who are new to our work, the cycle is really a very good reference for how these powers shift from kind of pre-menopause to post-menopause life.

And I thought I might just briefly give one or two examples in case people are wondering what, you know, what is this power change that happens? So the inner summer of the menstrual cycle, which is the time of ovulation, the kinds of powers you have there, and actually in the pre-ovulatory time, the inner spring, are the kind of powers that are really foregrounded in your menstruating years. And then the kinds of powers that you come into post-menopause are much like, more like the pre-menstrual powers, what we call the inner autumn powers, or the menstrual powers, the inner winter powers. So to give an example, at the ovulatory time in our cycle, we have a lot of energy.

We can do a lot of things and we can be very generous with our time. Post-menopause, you do have less energy. And now, so like the question is, okay, so like, oh, so now, so now you know what can't you do things anymore but there's this different kind of power that comes to the fore when you have limited energy you become much more potent much more discerning about what you use your energy for. So rather than doing a lot of things, you do what you do with such effect and impact. And you are so on call and so on purpose and so utterly in the river of your life. You're not doing things for other people

because it could be okay or it's a nice idea. You're just doing what is absolutely it. So that's one example of like how powers might shift. And I know, and that's probably quite a good example because I think a lot of people struggle with the decrease in energy that happens. And of course, menopause is an inner winter. So you will really want to rest more overall

and really kind of lean into that. But then postmenopause, you're going to have to sustain like that level of rest and care. Would you agree, Alexandra? Yes. And it's also a sort of gradual process too, you know, because in your sort of late fifties, you're still, you've still got a relative degree of, you know, chi, physical chi there. And then, you know, as you're getting older, then that does drop. If it is, you have actually described it really, really well. And what I'm thinking is, you know, when you're in the summer of your cycle, it's almost like you have energy to burn and you sort of scatter your energy, you know, far and wide and you say yes to too much and, you know, and what the premenstruum does is it goes and brings you right back into yourself again, your boundaries, you know, your boundaries suddenly get really clear and firm

and you just get really targeted about where you put your energy. And that's how I feel now, especially now, you know, getting even older. I am so precise about where I pay attention to things and, you know, where I put my chi. And what happens is the more you come into yourself, you know, the sort of less energy you have, the more it pulls you in. And you can hear it in. It pulls me into really into myself at a deeper level. So actually what's happening to me is my interior space is expanding.

I'm more inside myself. I am more embodied in myself. And that brings me into this precision about what I'm about and where I should be putting my energy and where I shouldn't be putting my energy and um it also brings in a real deep respect for other people actually because we all contribute different things and so I feel a respect for myself I think Jesus this is what I this is what i'm good at you know i so have to stay in my lane um um and not try and be all these other things it's a complete waste i could go on and on talking about this power it's so potent actually i want to just really say here it is what happens is you grow your authority more and more it is your voice the impact of what you have to say

has so much more potency there's a fierceness there's an uncompromisingness if that's such a word um it is a huge charge i mean i feel it in me and it requires a discipline actually not to just because i could lose it quite easily too and that's when you know people look at you and go oh you know batty old woman and you know if anyone wants to say that to me um i'm just warning you it's pretty the result. No one is dismissing me. Have you all heard that? We wouldn't dare.

I've seen this in you, Alexandra. You have this capacity to render a whole room completely silent and just waiting on your every syllable. I see it in the meetings and I see it I saw it when you were teaching recently at the heart of the rose festival and that authority was so present Alexandra and Sharni would love to invite you to join them for menopause the great awakener this year it starts on November the 1st and you can find out more about Alexandra and Shani's approach and their new story of menopause in their free three-day event which is on October the 21st to the 23rd. You can find out all about

the Great Awakener course and the free three-day event at redschoolmenopause.com. One of the things that participants most appreciate about the Menopause The Great Awakener course is that you can come back for free each year. You have lifetime access so you can keep coming back as your menopause process is unfolding and I'd love to share a message from Liz, a participant who came back two years in a row during her menopause process. And then we'll get back to the conversation with Alexandra and Sharni. Hi, my name is Liz. I live on the west coast of the US in Seattle. I first did The Great Awakener in 2021 and then I did it again in 2022, which should tell you like two things. Number one, it is that good if you're going to want to do it twice. And that

it's important to keep coming back to this material as life shifts and changes. And there were new things that I got out of it each time. I just can't recommend it enough. So in the fall of 2021, I was about to turn 50. But my cycle was starting to unravel, really. I was having 19-day cycles and 72-day cycles and 40-day cycles. And I was moody. And sometimes this rage would just like bubble up out of me like a volcano. So I just felt this pull to do this class. And I, I really believed Alexandra and Shawnee that menopause is a transformational experience. And every time I heard them talk about menopause in this way, I was like, yep, that's the kind of menopause that I want to have.

One of the most meaningful pieces of this experience of doing The Great Awakener was that learning that it is initiatory and understanding the Red school framework for it, not just theoretically, but like feeling it in me because of the way that Alexandra and Shawnee teach it. I built so much trust in myself so that during my years of menopause, when I had a challenge, I knew where to turn first to myself. And so then I could go find other resources like chatting with friends or books or a doctor or supplements with that foundation of like this commitment to myself, to this trust in myself at the foundation of all of that, I felt really empowered for my own unique experience, my own unique journey through menopause. So if you're thinking about joining the menopause great awakener I would absolutely say go for it

you'll get something out of it now and I think you'll want to keep coming back to it back to your own notes back to watch the recordings again maybe you're going to do it a few years in a row just like me but I can't recommend it. And I hope you get to find that same sense of trust in you. There are two things there that you've been touching on, which we have written about in Wise Power, where we unpack what the elements of your wise power are, what the powers are that you hold in post-menopause life. And two of them there that you've spoken to, Alexandra,

are the power of limits and also the power of restraint. And I thought I might just read a little bit here about the power of limits because it captures something of what you've been speaking about. So we say, our culture has a romance with no limits. More is better, but limits can liberate you. The power of limits refers to the precision that comes from truly knowing yourself and knowing your mission. Knowing your limits means growing your boundaries. And then you know exactly where to put your precious time and energy and where not to. And then we go on to say how limits create depth

and an inner expansion of creative possibility and responsiveness. They allow you to root into yourself with ever more fortitude, enjoyment and authority. And they forge you into a stronger channel of communication between heaven and earth, between the subtle and manifest, between the divine and the mundane. That is so real and alive to me I feel so strongly yeah the book is also full of stories and quotes from people and women that you've sat with over the years and in menopause circles and so I have to read from Karina here you put it in this section and she says I'm a grounded bitch I know where I stand and I know

what I want. Oh Karina I can just speak to you actually I remember that quote so well. Power of limits in action yeah but I am loving everything that you've shared so far and I'm having this new understanding of the role that menopause can play in the world in our culture at this time seeing it as a kind of fulcrum to dismantle these structures like the ageism that you spoke about at the beginning like continuing the feminist movement of changing the power balances in our world so that women don't have all this stress and responsibility and burdens of care in the way that we do now and from a social justice perspective you know equalizing the playing field so that everyone has access to the kind of rest and resource and support that we need at this time you, menopause can do a lot.

Can do a lot. Yeah. And just on a kind of health, wellness, mental health perspective, menopause is also really breaking this intense momentum of do, do, do, more, more, more, real relentlessness of living and consumerism and just constant, constant growth. Menopause is such a powerful reminder for those going through it, but also for the world that actually the world needs, we need in order to be well, mentally healthy, physically well, and to live sustainable lives, we need these times of rest and recuperation. And that's what menopause is offering us. Alexandra, you often say,

when you, by the time you get to menopause, you've lived a long life, you are probably tired, you know, and I just think, yeah, what a great pit stop on the journey of your life that you have this retreat time the sanctuary waiting for you a time when your body your heart your mind your spirit is just ready to now let go down tools on some level and retreat um and and that you know it's such a welcome possibility a lot like going to bed at night is such a welcome possibility. I mean, gosh, I look forward to going to bed at night so much. And it makes the day that follows so much better. Menopause is exactly the same. Exactly the same. Post-menopause life is like a brand new day after a good night's sleep. if you can be supported and be able to go with your kind of

natural desire to retreat and rest at menopause yeah so yes so jane there's such a great analogy yes i mean that that is such a radical act of changing the conversation in the world in general around um this whole issue of our mental health, you know, and the pressure that we're under. There's something very significant that goes on at menopause that prepares us for bringing a different kind of awareness to the world or conversation to the world or role in the world. You see, a menopause is a massive ego death and then rebirth. And it's not that you lose your ego forever, as I like to say, my ego is alive and well. But it's a little bit humbled now.

And there's a sort of bigger field of consciousness around me um i and it's really important this because you see post-menopause um there is this feeling of liberation like you're free now and and you feel a lot more uncensored and there's a there's a power that can an enormous force there it's not a physical chi it's another kind of chi that just wants expression and if you have not and if you have not done the inner work of really meeting that ego death and just going yikes you know maybe i wasn't quite as brilliant as i thought i was and then but then gone and i am okay and you feel the rightness of yourself there's something very powerful that happens in that you're doing this psychological work to be able to channel this energy that wants expression in the world and um it it it's an energy that is bigger than me and if i'm not awake then you know it's i could just spew it anywhere and it

would yeah not do anything so you go through this psychological maturation so that you have the maturity to hold this charge because you are connected to something bigger so yes my little old ego can kick off but there's another part of me now that is much bigger that goes really really do you want to feed that we've got a bigger game to play here now you know it's like basically get over myself um get over myself that is a very good message i have for myself when i have those moments and you know there's something more important that i have to be present to and i have a very particular kind of intelligence and knowing and authority that needs to be in service of that

and not me going, you know, poor me and so on. I mean, I can do that privately if I want to for a moment. But even that feels really untenable now, just very uncool. And I don't like being uncool. No, that's so uncool. It's so uncool and I will not be uncool. So you've spoken there about another kind of power shift that happens, you know, where there's a loss of kind of physical energy,

but actually what you're saying, Alexandra, is that there's this amplification of creative energy that wakes up in you. And with that, a whole level of new responsibility that is so much bigger than your kind of small self, that awakening to that creative energy is a kind of awakening to your your responsibility to be a wise channel a wise custodian of it um i really love that and i um i think of the power of the imaginal as one of these post-menopause powers when you talk about that so what we write about in wise power with regards to this power of the imaginal is we say, while you may not have the physical energy you once did, you've got a new fierce drive that is sourced from the

power of your new mind. And your thoughts have an amplified energetic potency. Your imagination and intention have greater effect. So you want to be careful about the things you think. Your thoughts have always had potency, but because you can't rely on the physical energy of your body in the same way, it's as though your imagination has picked up the slack and it potentizes all that you do. So take this imaginal power seriously, dare to set intentions, practice prayer, and think twice before you curse anyone. We all start cackling. yeah so good can I ask a question about this the ego death part of this because it's just striking me that a lot of women and people are reaching like the heights of their career at this

point and it's a thing hey then to go through this ego death where the words you said, Alexandra, were, oh, maybe I'm not as hot as I thought I was. But we're still inside the same jobs and roles and positions and needing to command the same amount of authority in the world. It really is the signal that the growth moment has hit, that you have reached the limits of your ego capacity, and you are now going to go through an upgrade. But for that upgrade to happen into greater authority, greater power, but for that to happen, your ego has to be challenged. Otherwise, it just becomes all about you and not about anything bigger. It's just, I mean, you know, you can continue on that path.

But I think that the ego is rubbish at dealing with getting older. Just saying. It's not going to be your best friend as you get older. It won't deliver meaning to you. And you need to feel meaningful as you get older. Because when you've got lots of energy, man, you've got, it's so, I mean, sometimes I look back at my 20s and wouldn't mind being my 20s again and just sort of shooting the breeze. But of course, I was a total innocent. I had no, I knew nothing about who I was in my life.

You know, each age has its has its benefits and one of the benefits of getting older is this ripening of meaning and calling and this if if you're doing your inner work and belonging this ripening of a sense of connection to something yeah bigger and your ego won't bring you that and you know it really i I've never said this before, but it's never, it's just suddenly struck me that your ego is a rubbish ally for getting older. What it makes me think then is this is why we need allies who are also going through this uncharted territory of menopause. And also people who can help guide the way because you might show up in your job going through this immense ego death and no one knows because the

world isn't honoring and respecting menopause and what a what a profound inner stretch so and and this is why you created that menopause the great awakener that the course is why you wrote the book but the course is so that we can be together in all of the stretches and challenges that it that we experience going through the initiation of menopause consciously in a world that doesn't get it yet there's a lovely story in the fact she used in the book of a woman who um started making mistakes at work you know just you know things here and there that she clocked and because she was someone who had done a lot of inner work and um in a sense may you know she'd really uh I want to say made peace with herself but you know she really yeah she kind of yeah she was okay with herself and and actually with her life to date, what she had created for her life.

And then, yes, she felt this impact and she it didn't she. It was so interesting. I can't remember the exact quote in the book now but what I remember was that because she felt a dignity about herself she did not condemn herself for this it was so lovely and I thought yeah it's because this is a signal that I mean really it's not that you're less capable actually it's that your psyche is going I am so do not want to be here you You know, your mind is not on the job, actually, because your mind has got other business. It's like, I'm out of here. We've got some really big business to attend to right now.

You know, like, you know, we've got to go have a conversation with the cosmos about the meaning of life and who I am and, you know, all this stuff. And you're asking me to, you know, dot the i's and cross the t's here but you see if you don't know that if you don't understand that you know we talk about menstrual cycle awareness preparing you for menopause because it really does bring you into the river of yourself but even if you haven't done that all your life but you've done you know your own psychological work you've done your own um spiritual work or trauma whatever you've done you will have built up a well of you know self-goodness within yourself so whatever

inner work you've done you know that that can sustain you can help you to meet this and not condemn yourself yeah thank you Alexandra so hey back to these powers um and we're in chapter 23 of wise power here there are many more beautiful powers of post-menopause life that you describe the power of witness the power of undefendedness the power of kindness but I wonder if we could speak about cathedral thinking because this conversation is titled how can conscious menopause change the world and I think what we're pointing to is that when menopause is respected and honored and dignified and we're supported to go through it as an initiatory evolutionary process we hold completely different kind of powers we're plugged into ourselves and who we are we our capacity to serve is hugely enhanced and that can ripple out into the world

in a million gajillion ways and i feel like this cathedral thinking how you describe it is um a really good example of this so could I read out yes yes I was going to say would you read it out your post-menopause leadership isn't just serving the here and now. It holds the past and works for the future with equal value and care. This is cathedral thinking leadership. In medieval times it took architects, stonemasons and artisans decades to plan and build a cathedral and they wouldn't see its completion in their lifetime. Today our cathedrals, the great changes that need to be made for the sake of the planet, will come about from all the myriad, subtle, small and grand individual acts of care and commitment we each make. You do get to see something of what's built, but you do it for

the times yet to come. Your experience of navigating menopause brings you into a profound connection with the ecology of life yeah i feel very strongly about what you've just read out sophie and that idea really sustains me because some of the challenges or the challenges we face today feel monumental and many people feel it's hopeless and I will never use that word I realize I have a responsibility because it really is the end if I go into hopelessness. I realize I have a responsibility to keep holding the new story for our planet like many others out there who are doing exactly the same thing and uh just holding the line so that's the power of the imaginal you know the power of my imagination to to dare to hold to the fact that uh there is a bigger story a cathedral that's being built. And I'm just down here in this tiny little corner constructing this.

What came into my head then was gargoyle. Maybe it should be the Sheila and the gig I'm working on. Yes. The gig over the entrance to the cathedral. Yeah, I'm working on yes the gig over the entrance to the cathedral yeah i'm working on the shilling a tiny little sort of chipping away there's a little something and um and there's something about the consciousness that i sit inside now that knows that what I am doing is contributing to something, even as it doesn't show up in the world, although it is actually more and more. I mean, our work is really having traction at that level, but how this work that we're serving with

restoring cyclical consciousness, you know the menstrual the whole menstruality the power of that whole story and how that will impact the world but then behind that this restoration of just cyclical consciousness in general how um how i can just i just know what a game changer this is. And you just don't know when the tipping point is going to be. You just don't know. And suddenly it'll flip into something different. And you just have to hold your nerve.

You have to hold your nerve with what you're doing. And it's a big ask. But the thing is, I feel it's not a big ask it's it's what i'm wired for that's what i do that's how i've been set up what's the way i've been wired now that's what menopause has wired me for um so um i sort of accept my little she lived in a role I'm chipping away at I happily accept it I love that the Sheila in a gig yes yes yes and yeah I just want to close the conversation by inviting everyone listening to come and join Alexandra and Sharni for menopause the great awakener this year and there are women and people who have done this for three four five five years yeah

come back every year because it's um it's such a beautiful process of walking through the five phases of menopause but if you'd like to get a taste of the way that alexandra and shani work they're hosting a free three-day event journey process from the 21st to the 23rd of october starting with exploring the new story of menopause then on the second day going into this exercise that you were describing yesterday Shani was one of the most profound things you've ever experienced to could you describe what the exercise is designed for well just to say and one of the great things about our work is that Alexandra and I, we try out, practice, experiment with everything that we create. And so I was the gifted recipient of this new process that we created together, where I was guided to have an experience of what's possible in menopause. I was held through a process that allowed me to

experience the power of menopause as it unfolded through me. And wow, it has had such a profound effect on me. And I can't wait to share this with, you know, whoever comes and joins us, because I feel like it just lays down this imprint, or in a way paves the way for a very well held, well supported, empowered menopause experience. So yes, we're giving over the whole of the second session to that. And then in our third session, we are going to be talking more about what the tools, the practices, the skills are that you need in order to actually experience this in your life. So it's open to anybody who's approaching menopause, anyone who's actually in menopause, and actually even those who feel like they've come out of menopause, our experience is that coming to this work and going through the learning,

the explorations, the guided processes actually helps to recover and repair and really bring you into the integrity of the experience that you've had and in a way make peace with the experience that you've had so we welcome uh yeah any anyone who's kind of close by or in and you can find out more and register for it at redschoolmenopause.com yeah wow any final thoughts that you'd like to share as we wrap up this? How can conscious menopause change the world conversation? I actually really just want to speak to those who are perhaps really in the suffering at the moment, menopause and feeling like it's a bit, you know, bleak andak and you know they're really struggling to

cope and if um you know if you're one of those who is experiencing that right now i really and i just so encourage you to come to our event and to and and you know even come and do our course if you can because you'll step into a holding that will help to give meaning to what you're going through and that meaning can actually really change everything but just having the community because we have such a good community at red school and you know each course has its own community and then we have our just general community hub as well um is um so nourishing and holding and it just reminds you that it's not the end that you're not going mad it's just so important to have that because when you're in it you know as i like to

say when you're feeling the death moment you know death feels like death you're not thinking oh goody rebirths around the corner so yes come come just come and be with us and just feel a bigger company around you thank you so much Alexandra thank you Shani go well today thank you thank you bye thank you so much for being with us today if you're interested in exploring the menopause the great awakener course or joining us for the free three-day how to awaken the power of menopause event on October the 21st to the 23rd please visit redschoolmenopause.com. Okay that's it for this week I'll be with you again next week and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.