The Menstruality Podcast - 215. Replay: How to Mother Yourself Through Menopause (Chameli Gad)

Episode Date: October 5, 2025

It’s world menopause day later this month, and throughout October we’ll be sharing on social media about how we can rewrite the cultural narrative of menopause. On October 21st - 23rd, Alexandra and Sjanie would like to invite you to join them for their free three-day online menopause event: How Menopause Awakens Your Power. And their online course, menopause the Great Awakener starts on October 31st - you can register for the free event and find out more about the course at redschoolmenopause.comToday’s bonus episode is a replay of a delicious conversation I had with Chameli Gad, mystic and Goddess Wisdom Keeper and the founder of Awakening Women, who has been a teacher for me for the past fifteen years. Chameli’s menopause initiatory process unfolded throughout the pandemic and included the death of her son, and her divorce. She’s been generously sharing her menopause process with us here on the podcast over the past three years, and in our chat today, she explores the fruits of her menopause process, from the other side, and she is as honest about her current peace, ease and ecstasy as she was with her mid-initiation pain and suffering.We explore:What it means to ensure that your inner “mama is in the house” in menopause, in three different aspects: the witnessing mother, the nurturing mother and the guardian mother.Chameli’s ‘baby dolphin’ menopause dream and how it has radically transformed her capacity for self-compassion.What Chameli learned about boundaries in menopause, and how she moved from using boundaries as a way to control others, and instead as an act of leadership that arises from within us. ---Register for our free three-day menopause event: How Menopause Awakens Your Power on October 21st-23rd---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyChameli Gad: @chameligad - https://www.instagram.com/chameligadAwakening Women: @awakeningwomen - https://www.instagram.com/awakeningwomen

Welcome to the menstruality podcast where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharny, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers, and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, how's it going? Welcome back to the menstruality podcast. Today is the fifth of our five days

of special bonus replay episodes which we've been sharing every day this week. to celebrate and kick off our month of menopause at Red School. Throughout October, we're going to be sharing on social media all about how we can rewrite the cultural narrative of menopause. And on October the 21st to the 23rd, Alexander and Shawnee are going to be hosting a free three-day online menopause event called How Menopause Awakens Your Power. If you'd like to join them,

you can find out all about it and register for free at Red Schoolmenopause.com. You can also find out more there about their Menopause, the Great Awakener, online course, which is starting on October the 31st. Again, that's Red School Menopause.com. Okay, today's bonus episode is a replay of

a deeply delicious conversation I had with Shamaliy Gad, who's a mystic and goddess wisdom keeper, and the founder of Awakening Women. And she's been a really core teacher for me for the past 15 years. Shamelie's menopause initiative process unfolded throughout the pandemic and included the death of her son and her divorce.

And she's been coming back onto the podcast each year to generously share with us all about the process. And in our chat today, she explores the fruits of her menopause process from the other side. And she's as honest about her current peace and ease and ecstasy as she was with her mid-initiation, pain and challenge and suffering.

So let's get started with how to mother ourselves through menopause with Shamilly Gad. Shamali, thank you for coming back to be here on the podcast with us. So for those who don't know, Shamilly has generously been sharing her menopause process with us over the past two years. So starting with your conversation with Alexandra about what menopause awakened in you. Then you and I had a chat where we went all over the place. Like we talked about your early menopause honeymoon with a pod of dolphins in Hawaii. We spoke about the depths that you had been taken to. And what prompted me to reach out to you now is because I always love talking to you.

And I just took this journey with you a few. months ago with the eternal mother with these. Well, it felt to me, so I'm curious to hear if this is how it was for you, but it's like the fruits, some of the fruits of your menopause process. So I really wanted to ask you lots of questions about how menopause has awakened this new connection to mother, to mothering yourself, to inner mothering. But before we, before we go into all those hundreds of questions, how are you doing? And what cycles are you with in your life at the moment? What cycles are you tracking?

I remember the first conversation I had with Alexandra, where I was very honest with the depths of darkness. that I was going through and I just came out of or was kind of in the middle of digesting and processing. And I hope today that I can be equally honest with my ecstasy and joy and gratitude and peace. I received overwhelming responses and sharing from women from that conversation. conversation, such a relief. They expressed, many expressed such a relief that somebody put words to what so many are going through. And it's curious to me. I feel comfortable sharing the

dark. That's always been part of how I show up in my seat as a facilitator is to, to, yeah, how to share the pathways that I discover in my life journey. And I just notice a growing edge of being honest with my joy and ecstasy. And actually noticing as oftentimes an uncertainty and insecurity from people I share it with, it's harder to actually be present with someone that's just, you know, it's not like, oh everything is fine but you know when i really sharing the truth of my experience in this moment in my life is that i have never never been more at peace i have never been happier i have never been happier i wake up every day with such a gratitude i wake up with like and not taking

it for granted it's every day it lands deeper and deeper and deeper a sense of, ah, I'm on the other side, ah, I'm alive. You know, part of my journey with menopause was also death of my son, my stepson. So it was facing our immortality in so many ways. And the fruits of that for me is a tremendous recognition of the miracle of life. And such a gratitude for each day because I know that it can end at any time my son was 25 and it was just he was gone in a moment and so there is no guaranteed guarantees and instead of that being a source of worry or fear it has become a

source of immense gratitude and wonder and relaxation it's not like oh now I have to do all my bucket list or nothing like that all of that also gone away it's a very simple like all all I want to do like I wake up every day in the home I have created for myself and the companions that I live with I live with two dogs and two cats which are very very at the center of my relationship these days very conscious and rich relationship that keeps deepening every day and I wake up and we wake up together in love Every single day, there's love and peace and kindness in my home. And that is something that when I was a child, I grew up in such a volatile circumstances.

And without knowing it, I have lived with a certain kind of hypervigilance in my body, even after decades of embodiment practice. And it was that menopause initiation falling apart, kind of a death and rebirth that has allowed. me to come out with the relaxation in my body that is so new and I'm in awe. So kindness, peace, simplicity. These animals also brings me out in the wilderness every single day. So also the relationship to trees and plants and the animals, they are very in the center of my life, like 90% of the

the time I spend in relationship with the non-human world and a lot of people like my ex-husband he lives next door and he sometimes comes in and like I'm too lonely you are just here and I look around and I have all these eyes kind warm bodies we are around me I'm not alone and you know my house is surrounded by eight very very large you know Californian pine trees I'm not alone I am and constant communication and it's such important importance for me in this time of my life to give that to myself that this matters, this is important, not many will understand, people will see it as an absence of relationship and I see it as the most rich and fulfilling relationship that is I could have right now. It's just, and it's deepening every,

every single day. I'm learning so much and a lot of my teachings come from that relationship. So that's me. I really, really relate. I feel that my intimacy of the relationship I have with Frodo is a quality that can't be matched by any human relationship. And I have no words for it but you just put words to it really beautifully it's those that those eyes of love that wake up and just joy like every morning pure unabashed joy play we go out to the woods it's just me and him and the wild yes yes and i believe that also that these animals is a particular kind of dharma that these domesticated animals have yeah and i see it that they they have a role initiating us into that kind of undefended love that we feel towards them it's you know it's it's just

so pure and and we are we are loving an animal yeah that is has more instincts and is not cultured yes although they are domesticated not cultured so somehow we are invited into remembering of ourselves yeah i take it also as a that i'm a student of what they're are modeling and mirroring to me and that like I'm exploring like how can I be in that kind of love with humans and with the world yeah that I I believe that they are here to teach us our capacity to love I on Instagram you often share your dogs and you do you put hashtag I think dogs are God I think that's it yes um okay so you just hinted at bit in there about what menopause showed you about your early years and your attachments

and it revealed a lot to you about what you were holding in your body that you didn't you weren't aware that you were holding and I wonder if you could walk us into that like I'm thinking of back at the beginning of the Eternal Mother Sardana when you said you know I'd been practicing with the goddess for three decades but there were still parts of me that I wasn't like letting the mother in or wasn't wasn't letting myself receive that mothering that you were giving so abundantly to everybody else. Yes. Yeah.

It was a, you know, like I described in earlier talks we have had, you know, the menopause process for me was like a perfect storm with so many things falling apart in my life, including the pandemic and death and divorce. and it was like so many things at once. So there was no way that I could keep it together. There was a falling apart. And all my identities that I had called normal or me, they became almost like cartoon versions of themselves.

They became so extreme, like all my coping and all the ways that I have taken myself to be. They became so visible. And they didn't work anymore. A lot of our identities and co-beings are giving us the gift of feeling comfortable. But even if we pay a high price, there is a comfort, for example, to have a role of being very generous and taking care of people. It's a benevolent quality that a lot of people will appreciate and applaud.

And also for me, as a spiritual teacher, there's a lot of spiritual concepts that will support that kind of living. But when it started to become very visible and amplified, I began to see that even something that looked on the outside as something benevolent, what happened inside me was that I was leaving the source, I was leaving my own being, which I had done from very early age, leaving myself into a role. and that role is then intrinsically disconnected. And disconnection doesn't create love.

It creates a lot of good things. But ultimately, when we have saying yes to the evolutionary path, like my path is this goddess path, if we're lucky, we will be shown the price we pay inside. and it can be quite confronting. For me, I was shown how that pattern, that me moving into that role and leaving behind, what I was leaving behind was God,

was God, was source, was innocence, with just such a pureness within me that never got a chance to fully live and be. That's that dolphin, the dolphin self. I don't know if I told you about this dream, I don't know, last time, but I remember I was doing a lot of work. I had a lot of hell to begin to then to not only notice the pureness and beauty inside me that I was leaving behind, but all the parts of me that was also left behind that was a lot of pain. It's the reason why we leave ourselves. We try to play a role,

then I can be safe and I don't have to feel alone, you know, desperately needy. I don't have to feel despair, you know, like I was identified with being someone who loved life. I mean, one of the things you described was how this leaving of ourselves starts so young, so young. It's about life or death. We have to adapt to become a self. that will be received by our caregivers with love, right? Exactly, exactly. And like I shared with you, I grew up in a very volatile home,

so my system was in constant life and death fear. So for me, it was like, oh, I can move into this role. Look, they are smiling. Oh, this I can do, yeah? And I got very good at it. And for example, I had an identity of I love life. And when that started to crumble, what I was left with was like suicidal despair. And I realized that that was the pain I was in when I was a little body, little girl.

And by not leaving that, but turning towards that pain, I thought I would die. But there was a, in the moment where you turn towards this, there's something else present. You know, like one of the things that create kind of chronic trauma responses we carry with us, like this happened a long time ago, why is it still in my body? And one of the things that keeps it in the body is isolation, is that sense of being completely alone, which is unbearable for a child. And once I started to then not leave, but started to turn towards it, there was a presence there that changed everything.

But there was a lot of, you know, this is a practice. Like I said, I've been practicing for decades. I've done all of the therapy and the shadow work and the embodied spirituality. And nevertheless, you know, there are these pieces that will not reveal themselves until I have created enough safety and presence within me. So I'm able to tolerate myself and tolerate these parts because what we do is

that we internalize that rejection and judgment and criticism of these parts for good reasons because if we feel we can't function from that place. But it's of course not a, it's not going to last forever. In fact, we make it last forever when we keep resisting it and pushing it. what anyways i was just you know thrown into pain despair i i just couldn't you know i was i was spending so much time kind of curled up in the ball under my bed like i just wanted to disappear or curl up in the ball in the corner of my bathroom just i wanted to i just could not be here and luckily i had support i had support from people who could hold space for me and trusted the process, that this is what I needed to go through. And the paradox

is that those most kind of parts of ourselves, we think are broken or we can't go there, because then, you know, we're just going to be this sticky, needy, little puddle of yuck. My experience is that through integrating these parts as me, I realized that, There was so much power and joy and love held hostage in these hidden corners of my being. So for me to embrace, unbatched neediness led me to an incredible power and resource and a capacity to feel needy or not needy, no need to resist or identify with either. And back to the dolphin self, I had during this process, I had this dream, you know, I shared last time that I was swimming with the dolphins earlier in this process. And then last year when I was really coming out of the underworld, but I was in this middle

place, I had a dream. And in the dream, I found, I was digging in the sand and I saw a little eye. and then I started to dig more and more and I lifted up a baby dolphin looking at me with the most magical eyes and it's the most beautiful loving being I've ever seen in my life

and in this dream I just realize that this is this is my essence and this is what I am stepping on leaving behind when I play all of these roles and since then you know my sadana my spiritual path my worship my the center of my life is that now it's this baby dolphins turn I'm I'm going to guard it I'm going to create circumstances for this magical part of me to exist because oftentimes when we grow up, we are affirmed when we do something.

You know, that's good, that's bad. You know, that's how we can get conditioned into society. And there are many parents that doesn't have, they don't have the capacity to affirm being in us. Just that dolphin being in us is that magical creativity and love. It's not necessarily doing. It's a being. And when it's not affirmed, it's not,

it doesn't have circuits in the physical body to actually move and speak. Yeah, just when we are affirmed when we do this, you know, when we are toddler, like you have a little one. You know, he's literally shaped, his body, everything is shaped by what is affirmed, like what he's doing, you know, he's crawling, his brain is, is, is created so when i discovered this being as this and of course i've been in spiritual circles for my whole life yes i have always so so much have been affirmed in beingness all the way after 30 years of that practice the dolphin child revealed itself and so now i also exploring

like out in the woods, I explore even just like a toddler wood. It's like how does this want to move so I can create circuits, neurological pathways in my body for that to express itself through me. And it's, yeah, it's a magnificent work. And you know, for you as a mother, it is that balance, yeah, that you have of affirming the uniqueness and beingness and wilderness of your boy, of your boy at the same time you you will also your job is also to guide him to function in society yeah so it is that it's that balance but the beauty is that you don't have to do this perfectly of course you can condition him to to behave in certain ways and that so that he can have a good life in society but the whole the difference is is your presence if you are there

with him. You can't protect him from pain, but if he has this experience that you are there with him, that's, that becomes part of his story, which is a very different story than many of us are carrying. Yes. Yeah, the more I get to mother him, the more I'm learning about mothering myself. And I actually heard myself the other day say to myself, oh, so if you're being really hard on yourself there, and I think, wow, God, who said that? That's the first time. And I really do connect it back to the sardana too. I was really less to have three days away from the family by myself at a lovely sort of spa retreats centre place and I just took the sardana and that's all I took and it was just for those three days. So I really got to walk with it and be with it. So we can

talk about it. But just a couple of questions from what you shared. You said that there was like a readiness in you to see this now, to face this. now but I'm also wondering if whether there's a readiness or not menopause will tear away or like there's is there a dismantling process that kind of whatever needs to be seen will be seen whether we're ready or not you know what I mean yes of course we can't say for everyone but a lot of women experience that and that they are thrown in for me it was not something I chose to do, yeah, it was a dismantling. There are many ways people come out of hard times, yeah?

Some come out bitter. Some come out, you know, with a very shaken sense of, or their trust has been shaken. For me, that was a big one that I experienced. I could not, I could, I could not accept, you know, that it was this sense of, I have given my life to goddess and then she takes my son. Like, I could not accept it. It was a, I was, I was howling to her.

I felt so betrayed by her. And, of course, from there one can go many different ways. And depending on what kind of support we have, what kind of capacity we have, also depending on what our life path is supposed to show us and where we're supposed to go. And for me, that led me just into some kind of core betrayals that are so deep, deeper than even my physical form, it's like such a deep sense of betrayal that I got to visit. That was actually the opening to the Eternal Mother teachings coming,

which was through the portal of that despair and betrayal. And again, where I came out, it's not, you know, it's almost like I hesitate to say it because, but it's the truth. I came out on the other side with a trust that cannot be shaken, yeah? It's a trust that I don't have to build up or hold onto or believe in. It's the trust when you have seen things for what they are, which includes death, which includes brutality, which includes all of the things we think we have to run away from. and pretend it's not part of life or part of the divine even. So I believe that the tools and the pathways that I have created through my practice

allowed me to go all the way through the initiation because there is gold in these initiations. But we, you know, our culture doesn't offer us that many maps of how to walk through it. most people around us would think that we are going crazy or that we should take medication, which I'm not against. Like there was periods. When I look back, there's periods there where I was thinking, hmm, I maybe should have some medication at that point.

But, you know, here I am on the other side. But, you know, there are ways that we don't recognize what is happening because we compare it to our together self and together the way we should be. And of course, that's where the God. goddess mythology offers us these maps and pathways where we can hold it in the context of, oh, this has been going on for thousands and thousands of years. I'm a human. I'm going through a transition that humans have gone through for so long and that so many of the goddess myths and spiritual maps in the goddess traditions offers us that perspective of these are

not mistakes. These are not only inconveniences that we have to go through and we are happy when we get over it. It's actually opportunities, yeah, when the rolls and the masks fall away. Who are we then? That's where we can recognize ourselves as something deeper than the rolls and the masks. Because so many of us, we cling to the roles in the mask, but the truth of it all is that all of it is going to go. None of that is permanent. So we are clinging to to you know castles in the air we are clinging to something that doesn't have roots so there is a tremendous relaxation like i you know i was saying like well now the worst has happened yeah i got that phone call in the night that parents are are fearing i got it the worst has happened and

there's actually a kind of relaxation after that there's like uh because we don't realize how much energy we use on trying to keep that obey, as if that is going to make a difference even, yeah, because there are things that we can't control. Yeah, bless us, bless our hearts. Yes. It's so beautiful what you said to about the baby dolphin self, and it makes like the next level of sense that why wouldn't you take that baby dolphin self

out into the wild woods with your wild creatures, who are in that baby dolphin self-energy. Yeah, and the truth is that, you know, when we speak about mothering ourselves or now it's my turn, I'm going to center myself in my life, I'm going to take care of myself, self-love. Oftentimes we speak about it as all of these are components within the landscape of the individual me.

So, oh, I hear so often, with people I work with, they say, but I don't feel the self-love. Yeah, what do I do? Like, I can't, and then we're going to do all of these exercises of loving ourselves, and of course all of that can sue the system and help us. But the big change, I believe, is possible when we, again, recognize who we are, recognize, recognize who we are, recognize the incredible gift of life.

Like to recognize that, oh, I'm breeding right now. To recognize that, oh, who's actually experiencing all of this? Oh, to recognize that, oh, I lost my marriage. I lost this. And I'm still here. Who is it that guides me through all of this? What is it that, what is that force within me that wants to live, that that keeps going, that, you know, what is that?

And to turn towards that inside us and recognize that, oh, there is a presence within us. There is a being here that is deeper than all of these worlds that come and go. And once we begin to recognize that, there is a sense of, facing something faceless, but to face, it's not to believe or make up anything to wash our eyes clear and see, I'm alive in this moment. We walk all the long as if that is something, just regular thing. It's a miracle. It really is a miracle. And once we kind of begin, to recognize that there is a falling in love and a realization that either I allow this being as to be expressed through this body in this lifetime or not.

And nobody can do that for me. There's a sense of leadership, yeah, that mothering comes online, but there's a sense of like, this is a, either I center it or not. Either I, look, for me, I give my life to prepare the vehicle so that more and more of this beingness can flow through me in the unique way that it does through me. And for me, that is what allows, it makes me open, it makes me wonder, it makes me receptive. where love can become, where we can begin to receive that presence into our bodies. So it's not a something we have to believe in or do or learn. It's a recognition, it's a realization of who we are and what we are made of

and to really bow down and not take that for granted. and I said, oh, I've been giving this in this lifetime to lead. And there's so many ideas of what I should fill my calendar with and what I should do and not do. And I can listen to all of that. Yes, I can. And I can spend my life trying to please that. Yes, I can.

And I can also, or instead, I can choose to take this, not seriously, but sincerely, it's like this, to really take on the duty of being me. Yeah, this is my duty to guard. Like, once I've seen into the eyes of a baby dolphin, I don't take that lightly in the way everything is more light than ever, but you see, I wouldn't, you know, when I notice myself saying, yes, I can, when I actually feel, you know, when I actually feel, you know, I know that that is leaving myself, I feel a big army booth stumping on the face of this dolphin. And now it's impossible to do it.

Once I'm in touch with that intimacy, I can't stump on the face of a baby dolphin. I can't stop on the preciousness of being less inside. My job, and this can sound like a selfish thing, but my job is I have been giving an assignment from the universe to allow for the uniqueness of this being to be expressed as fully as it can. And that's where I'm home. That's where I'm in presence. That's when I can love other people. That's also how I can allow for tremendous generosity to come through.

There's more generosity coming through because it's not part of a deal, yeah, of me playing a game so that I can be generous so that everybody can like me and then I can feel safe I think I can never feel safe that way because I'm not home to feel I'm not home in myself to receive the love so it's an endless loop

that we go into in those games so it's that yeah so it's that recognition that is important and that gives rise to a kind of a motherhood It's like a sense of, for me, it's a sense of mother is in the house. It's like mother is home and she will say no, she will say yes. She will do the work of disappointing people. She, because she's the leader of this.

Yeah, so she is, yeah, we can, yeah. But that is the, you know, when I turn inwards toward my south, what I experience is loving awareness. It's a spacious class. It has a certain warmth of it. And what I experience is that in all my practice, there has been a subtle, even in my body, you know, my whole path has been how to bring that presence into the body. Yeah, that has been my path. and what this menopause initiation opened for me was to see that oh I am not receiving

presence into my body I am loving presence flowing into the body so it's a shift of identity of who's receiving what I am loving awareness flowing through this body and that identity shift, you know, allows us then to, to hold all the stickiest, there's no need to hide things away in the basement anymore. Yeah, it's a, it's a lot of compassion, a lot of capacity in loving awareness. Okay, I'm going to pause my chat with Chamile for a couple of moments to share some invitations with you. As I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, It's Menopause Month here at Red School and Alexander and Shawnee are going to be hosting a free event on October the 21st of the 23rd called How Menopause Awakens Your Power. You can read all about the event and what it includes at Red School Menopause.com.

And you can also find out there more about their online course, Menopause the Great Awakener, which happens every year. And many women and folks come back year after year after year because it's so powerful. We're actually going to hear a story in a minute. from Abby about her experience. The course is starting on October the 31st and you can find out all about that and register for the free event at Red Schoolmenopause.com.

Okay, here's what Abby said about her experience of Menopause, the Great Awakener. She says, I discovered the life-changing work of Alexander and Sharni in November 2019 at the age of 54, attending both the in-person weekend workshop and online course. From that first moment I was held in the devotional and cherishing container of Menopause the Great Awakener. A new language flowed over me which gave new meaning to my earlier menopause experiences.

I began to see how menopause had been working me from the age of 47 and so it was that I stepped more consciously into the initiatory process of this most holy rite of passage. I have come home to myself. I belong here in this body, cherished and helped. within this pioneering circle of women at this pivotal time of change that is happening on our planet. I step forward, knowing intimately who I am and I am blessed. So beautiful, Abby. Thank you so much. You can find out more about the course at red schoolmenopause.com. You've started to describe these three different elements of

mother that you taught on the on the sadness so the witnessing mother yeah yeah nurturing mother and the guardian mother so I sort of felt all three of those coming through you then and um I had a lot of questions particularly about guardian mother because I feel like is she not like the patron saint of menopause yes like it seems to be such a big part from the women and people I speak to who are in, you know, whether it's in the perimenopause, the kind of quickening times in the 40s coming up to menopause or in the middle of like the thick of the initiation or the power they then have on the other side or this fierce mother capacity they have on the other side, this new capacity for boundaries.

Yeah, yeah. One of the things I loved about the sardina was you spoke about where we think we're setting a boundary but what we're actually doing is controlling someone else yeah and i wondered if you could speak to that because it really landed in me and i'm with aid especially yeah yeah yeah so again you know boundaries in this context arise out of that recognition and love for self love for life itself of how can I allow for, you know, this gift I have been given to be lived through me. Out of that love comes the guardian mother to make that practical. And the guardian mother, she sets boundary.

So it's like a sense of from the, it comes from the inside out. So it comes from inside you. and then it is a recognition of, oh, there's practical rearrangements and actions needed in order for this my creativity and loving awareness to flow through. How we oftentimes think about boundaries, including myself, I had very hard time with boundaries because I experienced it, as leaving myself and trying to control another person or circumstances. And most often you will feel very helpless and powerless in doing that

because you cannot change another person. Only they can do that. So a boundary is not to control another. And it is a very important thing to see that so many ways we are setting boundaries is actually attempts to control. the other. So a boundary arises from within you, a recognition and leadership of what you need to happen here in this maybe relationship to this person. If you notice somebody is acting in ways that, you know, are not working for you, that are hurtful to you or are, you know,

not aligned with how you wanted to be in the home or whatever, a boundary is to express what you need and also to contemplate and, if possible, express not as a threat, but what you would need to do if the person is not wanting to honor that. So it's a kind of a disentanglement. So that if a person wants to communicate, like I have, for example, an example, a person who has been communicating with me in ways that I experience as violent. Like, my body, when I get emails, this is not communication style. I'm surrounding myself with.

Like, and I have a choice of what I want to have in my life. You know, of course, a lot of things out of my control, so or influence, but some things are. And I remember I shared with her, I hear that you are expressing your needs. I, she had a need to meet. I said no, because I didn't want to do that. So I said no. Then she started to communicate very kind of, she expressed her feelings in ways that I'm very, just dumping on me. And then I expressed to her, you are expressing your needs.

I'm expressing my need. When I say, no, that's my need. I take care of me, you take care of you. Right now, our needs are not compatible. I experience this kind of. communication violent, so I chose to not open or respond to your emails any longer. And for me, it was like a sense of, it was kind, it was clear, it was not even have to blame her in a way, it's to be aware of my limitations. These are my limitations. Old me would think

that, oh, I should tolerate this. I should, you know, work it through. If I can just, you know, only explains she will change and we will communicate differently or, you know, but here in this circumstances, it was possible for me to let go of this relationship. Of course, there are other relationships that are harder in that way. But to see that, oh, I'm allowed to, even if the reason is that I can't stay centered in presence in this communication right now, I need to remove myself in order because my job is to allow for presence to flow through me. That's my job in my life so that I can be present for the people and work that I'm here to do. And if I'm off center or if I am, yeah, that's enough reason to set the boundary. And I don't even have to

express that, that this is what I need. I need, you know, if you can communicate with me, you know, not using those words. And with this person, I had given her the chance many times, yeah? So at this point, it was just clear that this was not going to change. But it's a freedom in boundaries is to see that, oh, I'm allowed to, I'm allowed to create the circumstances that works for me. Some people will be disappointed. It may be not be right, but that doesn't matter.

what's matter is you take care of what you need so you can stay true to what you're here to be yeah you can look after the baby dolphins mm-hmm yeah exactly and of course when we are out there controlling someone else we are not home no we are like current baron kdc we are in another person's business you know we there is no power like if you feel powerless in the relationship, look at that. It's probably where you're losing your power. But yeah, but if only it can change, if only he can do, if only you are, you know, you are leaving yourself

and trying to fix a place where you have no power to fix. Coming home to yourself may mean that you have to feel some uncomfortable feelings in yourself and maybe some uncomfortable truths. And many of us avoid that a long time, you know, We just stay blaming or stayed controlling. And I think in my experience of my own initiations, we need that nurturing mother more than ever in those times when we're so fragile, so vulnerable,

to be able to advocate for ourselves in that way and to claim the boundaries that we need and to know that that's okay. Like I'm thinking of my holiday with aid recently where classically we went to beautiful Anglesea in Wales, but on the first day, have this huge fight because now we're finally relaxed. And so, of course. And he, he never shouts, but he, he shouted, you have been so controlling for two years. I realized from this

just place of suppressing my needs, suppressing my needs because of early motherhood. It's just, it's a requirement of early motherhood. I had, forgotten how to need. You know, I'd forgotten that it's okay for me to need and for me to call on nurturing mother and meet that need. And he brought this fierceness in, which was so helpful and I'm so grateful to him. It was ugly in the moment. And since then, before I jumped to the control pattern of you need to do this, this and this, I remember boundaries, nurturing mother. Hey, I am so tired. I need some help. And it changes everything. The house feels completely different. You know, it's a different home. Like I'm, Mama's home. Mama is home. And yeah, I guess a question

I'd love to bring hearing the voice of the, of our listeners, is for someone who's in the thick of the fire of menopause and they know they need more of this guardian mother, how to invoke her, how to call her in how to so for me my journey you know was that I was brought into the underworld I was you know things were falling apart the roles that I was playing

did not work into layers of despair of darkness of being completely broken and then beginning to feel this new old

essence having more space to trickle through and then it was this falling in love or or recognition of how precious that is to actually oh this is my being this is this is given to me all these years you know I've been trying to do this or they said that should do that you know for many people like I have in my life, you know, carved my own path since very early age, and nevertheless, even in that, there has been, you know, these roles. Then I started to come up from the underworld. Yeah, things started to settle. I was like, okay, I'm on the other side of a lot of the things. And I started to, you know, in the menopause journey and in this journey, there was a lot of,

things falling apart of old ways but when I came up up again on the surface I looked around at the life that I created from the old me the structures it's like I was walking into a house that capable old me had created and including a lot of relationship contracts Yeah, where people were used to me being a certain way. And then started, this was around, you know, maybe one and a half year ago now. It's been one and a half year ago where my main practice has been to set boundaries. Because then started the kind of new phase of rearranging things so it can align with the new me. And that was not easy.

It was a lot of difficult conversations. You know, I had to, and it was a lot of people I worked with that I had to lay off because this whole big operation was created by all, you know, Superman, Shamli. And now this new recognition, you know, was that, oh, I need simplicity. I need a ease. I need a completely. different structure in my life and I had to have a lot of conversation and some were very supportive some it was a lot of protest yeah it was a lot of disappointment but also yeah blame and

protest like because old all charmley was more beneficial to them yeah and I remember in the beginning where I had to say no where I would all me would have say yes yeah yes you can have have more money. And I had to say no, because my priority, the simplicity is. I had to have this kind of guiding torch that guided me through this maze. And I just held onto it. And like, okay, this is, you know, everything has to fall into place around this. And I remember in the beginning when I started to break the contracts. And I said, no, where all we would say yes, I had a full almost anxiety in my body. I had all of these symptoms in my body.

Sometimes I would lay on the sofa and I couldn't even move. Like there was so intense physical sensations. And of course, without awareness, old me would make that a sign that I had to go back and fix it. Yeah? So it was like this tempting like, oh, I didn't mean it. You can have it. And then I would feel good in my body again.

Yeah? Because I would then again betray me, but I would make them happy. And that was the source of my happiness for so long. And that didn't work, first of all, by grace, that doesn't work any longer. I just can't do it. But it would a lot of tempting to go back. So no, no, no, no. I didn't mean it.

And then I would feel good again. So I would go out in the forest and just hold myself with that nurturing mother. That's where, you know, the nurturing mother is so important to have that. capacity to hold all of the discomfort it takes to break contracts to begin to carve out new pathways that are more aligned and true. So for me, that has been a process. And now it gets easier and easier. And I have had experiences, you know, in this process where I, you know, I also have my ex-husband living next door. So I get to practice boundaries with him all the time which is really good because I can be he's such a good mirror for me because I lived with him

for 20 years more and so now I can see the evolution I go like sometimes I go like no I just say no so and then I go like me I can do that I can just say no but the world is not falling apart I'm not you know wow I can just say no and so it gets easier and and easier, but I'm still in awe. I'm just like, new way to go. Look at Chamoli. And sometimes even old me would think that I would have to process. If somebody has a need, I would take it as an obligation for me to figure out how to fix it for them.

Even if it was a no, I would figure out something else that I could bring a yes. or and now I just have this experience of it's possible to actually just say no and a whole like there's no entanglement whatsoever and that person has to take care of it themselves you know and then of course my yes is more exuberant and generous than ever because it comes from clarity and one of the things practical things is really to a sentence that I learned that was important for me was, I hear you, I will take some time to digest it and get back to you. That was very important for me to not say yes or no right away. And now when I have requests, I know because I have this, it's almost like an addiction. Yeah, like there's, you know,

a codependency, I call it, when I was used to that it's my job to make other people happy. So that means also that some people will have more of that trigger in me. If somebody has a lot of problems in their lives, for example, there is a, you know, that will trigger a response to me that, oh, I can save them or I can fix it for them. And for a long period this year, just like an alcoholic would not go to a bar. I would have a distance to people like that, that I knew would trigger me, that I couldn't help anyway. It's not that I would, you know, not respond if somebody needed help. It's just the pattern of thinking that I could fix this person's problems. And it was just like I needed

and that's again, I'm, that's not the right or wrong thing. It's just to take responsibility for where my limits are. And there are. And there are. some, yeah, there are some people that will trigger that again, and then I need to take a little distance so I can come back to myself again. So it's just, again, it comes out of that recognition that you are the leader of your life. Of course, we have circumstances and obligations, and you are in the midst of toddler face. Of course, it can be so hard to remember that. Like, I hear that a lot when I practice with women. It's like, yeah, but I can't. because of this, this, this, this, this.

And a lot of that is factual. But what I also see, and I want to, you know, really express strongly, is that we have more freedom than we think. There are, just as other people are governing your decisions and values and the way you choose to create your schedule, you can, you know, like you allow outer circumstances do that very easily. And then there is this resistance almost or kind of a hopelessness around like, you know, but I can't do it myself.

I can't lead it to myself. And a lot of things is out of our hands, but a lot of things are in our hands. And we can create, like I have been creating like boundaries are all. also in my calendar. Guardian Mother comes in there. Before, I would plot in all of my appointments. And then what was over, left over, was the time that I get to do, what was, you know, other things that was important to me.

Now I do the opposite around. Yes. I'd plop in my retreat times, my practice. And then everything else has to go around that. That's just an example of Guardian Mother. I love it. And people say, oh, can you do 10 o'clock? And you're like, no, I'm busy.

And you're busy, lying down with your dogs. Yes, I am in my dog. Exactly. There's a, you know, there are archetypes and goddesses around the guardian mother. And, you know, one of them is the green Tara. She's like a protector. She has that kind of fears. She's a goddess.

They call it like an enlightened action. So she has a fierce guardianship of source and who we are. she's that capacity within us to recognize who we are and then to begin to be very pragmatic and sober about what boundaries are needed in order for that to be lived. Durga is from Hindu mythology is one of my teachers and guides. And again, her boundaries come from her love. Like she's so in love with our capacity that she's seen.

so she has no tolerance for all the roles and games and all of the stuff that distracts us. And so she will guard, but it comes from that inside out. And then a third goddess that is very much my beloved these days, this last year, and it's Freya from Northern mythology. And she's that goddess that is like, she's living at the edge of the forest. Like you can see me, like I cut off all my hair for those who don't see it, but I really am savoring and claiming my seat at the edge of the village. Yeah, like I'm this woman living with the animal and with the herbal and plant medicines.

And Freya, she is like that, she's that aspect of us that is free of all of the shoulds. She's like this, you can see her, the back of her going into the forest, and she sees see a little tail and she turns around and she has this kind of freedom. It's this kind of, ah, and it's this kind of sense of, look how free I can be. You know, it's that, and I resonate so much with her. It's like it feels like my service to the world now is to show how free a woman can be. How much can I claim the freedom? And that's oftentimes hard work.

Yeah, because there's so many old patterns that wants to pull us in. So I'm going to fail gloriously in this and ever. But, oh, what a, yeah, what a boarding failure. And talk about the new story of menopause. I'm going to show the world how free a woman can be. Yes, yes. Watch me go. Watch me.

And this is also liberated a lot, like the way I teach the way I. a hold circles, the way a whole client, you know, it's like nothing can bind me, you know, not even anybody's expectations or, you know, because my, my, my loyalty is to this thread of freedom. And of course, that is something I can bring into serving others. Yeah, but, yeah, nobody can bind me. It's beautiful to witness. The in you, Shambly, because I've probably been with you for 15 years. And so you're saying similar things and the place they're coming from is, is I can feel the difference in you and, and how it lands in me. And yeah, it's, it's explicit. So, you know, I've been teaching this for so

long. And, you know, when I speak to, to people close to me, I do that all the time. It's just like, I say something that, oh, you know, this is the key. And then I realize, and then I really, that's what I've been saying for 15 years. But it, for me, it's every day is new. It's like, it just keeps landing in new places. And one thing I want to say before we complete, I don't know what the time is, but the biggest key to all of this. I just want to summarize also.

We have been speaking about a practice called Three Mothers. And of course, we have just done bits and pieces of it. So I'm just going to summarize that the Three Mothers is a, It's how, you know, when we have awareness of these patterns, there is awareness present. Without awareness, we will just be in the world. We think, I am that. Menopause is one of those initiations. Childbirth is one of those initiations that kind of cracks, cracks the solidity of these identities.

So there is an opening there. There is an opportunity for awareness. Yeah, there's like, oh, I'm doing this pattern. It's not who I am. It's a pattern I've learned. So awareness is witnessing mother. It's essential. That's what we cultivate in meditation.

In, you know, it's actually, she's always here. She's what allows us to speak and hear and see you right now. Yeah, that's witnessing mother is always here. In many spiritual traditions, it seems like she's kind of a backdrop. And that our spiritual practice is to live. leave the body and move into witnessing awareness, almost like we go out of physical into this backdrop. In this goddess practice of three mothers, the witnessing awareness is we practice to receive it into the body. And this is the main key of my practice is receptivity. Receptivity

shifts everything. It's not me leaving, it's not me searching for goddess. It's, it's, it's, It's a receptivity that allows her to flow through. And when she comes into the body, when she takes form, there is a kind of warmth to it. It's like what I call loving awareness. Like Ramda said, I am loving awareness. It's most beautiful mantra. I am loving awareness. And I say, I am loving awareness flowing in.

And once it's flowing in, it is love. And that's where the compassionate nurturing mother is. This is a practice we can, when we have all kind of sticky feelings in our bodies, we feel that tiredness and need, you know, in that moment when you fight with your partner, there is that sense of, okay, I can bring this warmth to myself right now. There is that, it's a receptivity into the contraction. And that's where we allow nurturing mother to come in. And it's essential because without that, we will move into roles again to avoid the pain. Yeah, that's what made us do it in the first place.

So that's the key that liberates is loving awareness, loving kindness to yourself. And then from there arises that kind of recognition that, oh, this is precious. Yeah, this is precious. I'm not just a tool in everybody's idea of what life is. I have something to contribute. I matter. It's up to me to lead. It's up to me to allow for this unique essence to come through me or not.

I have the tools. I have the support. Even just this podcast, it's a support. You go back and listen to Sophie speaking to all of these people. There's a lot of support. And that's the tree mothers. That comes the guardian mother. So witnessing mother, nurturing mother.

guardian mother, but that the essence or kind of at the heart of this practice is receptivity. So that is something I just want to offer us, like really from the depth of my heart, to practice receptivity changes everything. And it is a moment-to-moment practice. When you feel activated, just explore what happens if you soften and you receive. yeah and see what happens when loving awareness is allowed in thank you shalmani my people are loving hearing you how can they connect with you go to awakeningwomen dot com awakeningwomen plural and we are also awakening women on instagram and i also awakening women on instagram and i also

have a shamly god at instagram but just yeah awakening a moment you will find it at instagram on facebook and the website that's the best best way oh thank so much i love i love your joy and ecstasy thank you we do until next time thank you so much i love thanks for being with us today conversation with Shamilly. That's the final one of our bonus series this week. But do follow along on social media where we're going to be rewriting the cultural narrative for menopause all month and come over to red schoolmenopause.com to register for free for Alexander and Shani's free three-day online menopause event, How Menopause Awakens Your Power. And also to find out more about the menopause, the Awakener course, if you're interested.

Okay, I'll be with you again in a couple of weeks' time, and until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.