The Menstruality Podcast - 218. Passing Through the Veils: Perimenopause as Sacred Preparation (Alexandra & Sjanie)

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

As we enter our forties, many of us start to experience signals from our body that show us that we can’t override ourselves anymore. We become more permeable, our energy levels shift, and we tend to have less capacity. If we don’t clock these changes and find ways to adapt our lives, we’ll start to experience trouble inside ourselves often in the form of stress, overwhelm and other physical, emotional and mental symptoms. Alexandra and Sjanie call these years the “autumn” of our menstruating years, or the Quickening, and in the collective conversation many refer to these years in the run up to menopause as perimenopause. Today we’re exploring these perimenopause years and challenges as a kind of sacred preparation or apprenticeship for the great initiation of menopause - a series of unveilings that allow us to see what has been unconscious within us. Through stories from the community we explore why many of us feel scared of and unprepared for menopause, how the forties are preparing our psyches for the massive spiritual awakening ahead and why menstrual cycle awareness is our greatest ally through the twists and turns of perimenopauseWe explore:The importance of relishing your forties, and the authority and sense of self-knowledge that can come with this decade.How menstrual cycle awareness, and particularly paying attention to your premenstrual phase - the inner autumn of the cycle - can prepare us for the autumn challenges of the forties and perimenopause. How old trauma can resurface in perimenopause, and how to deeply meet what is arising and support yourself to encounter the big emotions  so that healing can take place. ---Register for our menopause online course: Menopause: The Great Awakener - Starts October 31st---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the menstruality podcast where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharny, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers, and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us today. So as we enter our 40s, many of us start

to experience signals from our body that show us that we can't override ourselves anymore. It can look like becoming more permeable, your energy level shifting, a sense that you have less capacity. And if we don't clock these changes and find ways to adapt our lives, we can start to experience trouble inside ourselves, often in the form of stress, overwhelm and other physical, emotional and mental symptoms. Alexander and Sharnie call these years the autumn of our menstruating years or the quickening. And in the collective conversation, many refer to these years in the run-up to menopause as perimenopause. And today we're exploring these perimenopause years and the challenges that can come with them as a kind of sacred preparation or even an

apprenticeship for the great initiation of menopause to come. A series of unveilings that allow us to see what's been unconscious within us ready for this spiritual initiation. So through stories from the community. We explore why many of us feel scared of and unprepared for menopause, how the 40s are prepping our psyches for the massive spiritual awakening ahead, and why menstrual cycle awareness can be our greatest ally through the twists and turns of perimenopause. Okay, here we go. Passing through the veils, perimenopause, a sacred preparation with Alexandra and Shani. Hey, you two. It's been a while since we've done this. It's good to see you both.

Oh, it's lovely to see you, Sophie, with your new glasses. Thank you, Alexandra. I'm very excited about my new people keep saying I look classy, which... You do look very classy. I feel like I'm experiencing a new Sophie. I'm slightly mesmerized by you. I hope I can concentrate on this podcast because you're looking so sort of, whoof. I don't know. I never feel classy inside. I just feel like I'm just scrambling through my days. So I thought that I looked classy is I'm very happy about this. But yes, shall we do our cycle check-in? Yes.

I could actually kick us off because I'm the baby in the autumn of the menstruating years, which is the theme of our conversation today because I'm going to be 44. Are you 44? Not such a baby. You're growing up in the autumn of the menstruating years. And I can feel it. I can feel the autumn of the menstruating years. I can feel the seriousness of it. I've been through waves since I turned 40 of emotional intensity and initiatory intensity

because it was also coupled up with becoming a mom at 40. So that comes with its own initiatory journey. But today I'm on day three and I just had two. huge work days, like starting at 8.30 and finishing at 8.30 on day one and two. But I rested all of Sunday because I thought I was going to stop bleeding on Sunday. So I just rested while I did Lego Technics with Artie all day. They all just love it together. And, you know, I'm thinking back to the conversation we just republished with Tracy Stanley

on the podcast about rest as medicine in all phases of life, but especially in menopause and perimenopause. And boy, did that day of rest sort me out for these two days of intense work, even though I was bleeding. And I practiced what, you know, you two have guided me to do over all these years, which is I just was myself on day one. Even though I was hosting meetings and big gatherings and things, I was just, I let myself be soft and low and slow.

And, yeah, it was actually pleasurable. And I was absolutely naked by the end of the day. And slept well. But yeah. How about you, Shani? So I'm menstrual with you. This is going to be an interesting conversation. Both of us menstrual and Alexandra, like, is there a word post-menopausal menstrual

or something or other? Although it's just in the full moon. Yeah, but I'd just say kind of menstrual permanently. Versions of. Yeah, it's interesting working with her. not to elaborate on that just go behind the scenes of rest school that's another podcast episode so yeah my day two is very internal and I just notice when I'm on my own and quiet with my eyes closed I just feel such an

immediacy in this sense of being returned to myself. It's like the whole world just disappears and it's just me present in the presence. And it is such a, gosh, it's such a sanctuary. It's such a respite because my life is so busy and I have so much respite. and there's so much going on. So when I've had these moments today and yesterday, it's just been, yeah, like a little, it's not a lot that I get to have those moments, but when they come, I'm really receiving them.

And also just noticing how, you know, I've got to show up for this conversation now, and I have all sorts of parenting responsibilities and other things today and how easy it is for that stuff to take me out of myself and a bit like you, Sophie, I'm just really tending to how to stay present to this depth even while I'm doing everyday stuff. You know, it's a practice. Really, it requires some discipline and care. Yeah. And as we're going to talk about all through this conversation, you're really in the autumn of the menstruating years. And so I imagine these moments of sanctuary are ever more precious because of the intensity you're experiencing.

Very much so. Nice you can have one of them at work, hey. Have one of them at work. As in like, you're at work right now. Oh, am I? See, you don't even know because you love your work so much. But you can be doing something that is quote unquote for work, but inside. a sanctuary like i just wish that for everybody

we could provide menstrual sanctuary moments for everyone in the office in the hospitals in the schools you know that would change everything yeah alexander how's the full moon been oh it's been very generous i was i have been feeling very well and yesterday i remember thinking oh the energy in me was was just very kind of warm and generous. Even as I, you know, the moon does mess with my sleep a bit, but there's an overall feeling of well-being in me, which is very delicious. And so the moon, that full-moon energy has just been sort of filling that out, if you like, and it's kind of warmth, generousness. And then this morning, I was chortling to myself, because it's a day after

full moon today. And I feel, you know, I have chi in the system. and I've got clarity in my mind. My mind is, you know, it's focused on the world. There's a creativity there. But I don't have that same generosity of spirit. And I was thinking, oh, I think my sweetness quotient has dropped a little. I feel more, I want to say, more post-menopause as in, you know, like, you know, just getting on with seriousness. There's a sort of less compassion.

but I have huge compassion. My work is all about, you know, compassion for life and the world and caring people. But on a day-to-day level, there's, you wouldn't want to mess with me overly, probably. Especially with this conversation we're going to have

because actually we were chatting beforehand and we were saying you're like the matriarch of the elephant. What do you call a group of elephants? A flurry, a pet, a tribe, a clan, Anyway, a group of elephants, because what you want to share today is fierce. You know, it's really, and it's so important to you. Yeah, so yeah, no messing. Just channel it.

I'm messing. Yeah, and to, I mean, to lead us into that, really, I feel like the intention of this conversation. I mean, I'm getting it right is you want to reframe what perimenopause is. You know, there's so much, so much more awareness on menopause and perimenopause in the world, which of course is a great, great thing because much better than it being totally in the shadows and everyone feeling alone, but there's something that isn't being spoken to

that you want to speak to. Yes, Sophie. I was just really taken by your words. Yes, I feel very strongly about something and let me see if I can encapsulate it for myself because I feel as I've just sort of clunked into another deeper level of this. and the deeper level of what I've clunked into

is really such an appreciation of the enormous spiritual power of menopause, that it's spiritually radical, and it's a radical spirituality, radically spiritual. And don't ask me to define the difference between those two. There's just a sense of, I'm so present to the human, hugeness of the spiritual forces that are available there, menopause, that are actually working and courting us.

And it's all, I can't describe, I can't give it words, but I am inside something and have been for quite a long time, but it was just really, it's been illuminated even more for me. And I really, you know, I feel so strongly that you can't just arrive at the door of menopause, and go through that, you've got to be prepared for it. And the reason I get somewhat distressed around the way that we language menopause today is that the moment someone steps feels some change or disturbance in their cycle and in the kind of ease and flow of their lives, which can have.

happen from, you know, your mid-30s onwards, you know, you could start to notice things, but generally from your beginning of your 40s, somewhere around there. And the moment that starts to happen, it's got this label put on it of perimenopause. And while it's true, you are changing and you can't take yourself for granted anymore. It's actually such a very clear signal that, oh, I can't abuse my body anymore. I can't ignore myself anymore. You know, as you get older, you become more permeable and your energy levels start to shift and change and what, you know, you have capacity for. And if you don't clock those changes, then you're going to experience trouble, you know, within yourself. And, you know,

And that has been all labeled as perimenopause. Now, I think it's important that there is an acknowledgement of these changes and that you can't ignore your self-care. But perimenopause and menopause are sort of seen as one thing now. And when I think of what the extraordinary spiritual initiation that menopause is holding, and that, you know, you're in your early 40s and you suddenly think, oh my God, now I'm in it. It's like psychologically, you're not ready for that.

And no wonder people are feeling sort of scared because a lot of people are really scared about menopause now. The languaging around it is that it's, you know, it's doom and gloom and, you know, you're losing something, you're losing faculties you know you won't have the same this or that and and it's a very negative language and um this is i think uh i don't know what the word is not good it's not good because we're setting people up for something yeah i mean i could actually read a comment from our that names this really well it's from rebecca she says i'm looking forward to perimenopause because

is my favourite version of myself shows up a couple of days after ovulation, and I'm hoping I'll see more of her in the years to come. On the other hand, the way perimenopause is being described, not only in the culture at large, but even in your writing here, I feel afraid. I feel I've had enough humiliation for one lifetime, and I'm not looking forward to dealing with more. I'm nervous about letting go of the patterns I've become accustomed to.

That's so good. That was Rebecca, I think. I love the fact, Rebecca, that you feel, you know, you're excited to come into your 40s, you're coming into your best self because I think that's what the 40s are, that you come into a real sense of mastery of knowing yourself and just kind of feeling like you've got, you're in your lane, you know what you're about, and you know, you've got life experience and there's an authority there, a kind of worldly authority, and it is to be utterly, utterly relished. And that's what's getting subsumed. And accompanying that

process, Rebecca, is the fact that, you know, you're getting older. And so what I just said earlier, you know, you have to be much more thoughtful about your health and your boundaries because our hormones are directly affected by stress in our lives. So, you know, if we're not tending to ourselves if our lives are very, very intense, that will impact on our hormones and hence then that we will encounter challenges. Because the moment your energy starts to go, your spirit can feel threatened, actually, yeah. Well, when you can't rely on what you've always been able to rely on, suddenly it's like a rug's been pulled out from under your feet and you don't know who you are.

Precisely. Yeah. Precisely. So I should perhaps apologize to you for also giving you, saying that they're, you know, perhaps using that very strong word humiliations and we will unpack that actually. But I do want to say that there are challenges and these challenges are we want to see them as muscle building, as deepening, you know, that they're invitations to integrate a depth and awareness of yourself because, you know, you're stepping into greater and greater spiritual awareness. And menopause is this massive spiritual awakening that's going to go on. And your psyche is, any of us, you know, in our 40s, our psyches aren't ready for that. it's a bit like a girl going through Menarchi too early

it's like too much information for her psyche to be dealing with the fact that she's it's just beyond her and in a way that's really what's happening for us when we don't understand the power of menopause and of course ultimately you never understand it until you're in it and then you start to get it

but to respect the challenges that you may encounter through your 40s as these vital sort of mini-initiatory moments, these mini kind of road bumps that are going to pull you into yourself or just stir you and just disturb enough for you to go, hang on a moment, you know, whoa, whoa. Because we're all carrying huge unconsciousnesses within ourselves for all sorts of reasons and it's like the veils parting so we talked about it you know the perimeness these unveilings these series of unveilings that go on and that you get to

see into yourself a bit more yeah and and maybe shiny you could come in here um if you want to i know you're on day two there so maybe you just want to be in the sacred sanctuary of your silence but I wonder if you could, yeah, walk us into these ideas of, which we've spoken about on the podcast, but I don't think we can ever say too much of the 40s being the autumn of the menstruating years. And seeing this as a kind of, you know, you two were preparing for this conversation before and talking about it as the 40s as a sacred apprenticeship, preparing us for this great initiation of menopause. yeah we when we wrote our book um wise power we really focused on the initiation of menopause and we shared this map of the five stages of this menopause initiation and in the process of kind of unpacking that

and we really call it the new story of menopause because it speaks to the spiritual awakening that's happening, which is really has been kind of subsumed in our culture. And in the process of writing that, we realized that you can't really speak about menopause or understand the menopause initiation out of context, out of the context of the whole menstrual cycle and out of the context of the menstruality cosmology, the menstruality process that you live through from menarchie through your menstruating years. So menopause is this kind of final bookend of this very long multi-year process that you've been through.

And so we spoke a little bit about the life phase that leads up to this initiation. and it is the autumn of the menstruating years. And I think that's the piece today that we're wanting to shine a light on because there's been something around me living through it because I'm now 48, I'm turning 49 very soon next month, that through my experience and through the conversations that Alexandra and I have been having together about my process,

it's really illuminated what this life stage is really, really about. And Alexandra has touched on it there, and you've just named it, Sophie, as this like sacred preparation for the initiation of menopause. I think understanding the menstrual cycle and the inner seasons of the menstrual cycle really gives us a good ground to understand this. life phase, and just as Rebecca shared there earlier on, like she loves her pre-menstrum, you know, her post-ovulatory self, the inner autumn of her menstrual cycle. And that is already giving her insight about how to navigate this life stage.

So there is something about the practice of cycle awareness and how we get to know ourselves and know how to navigate the pre-menstruem, that really sets us up well for this life phase. And I realize a lot of people probably listening to this conversation haven't had that foundation of menstrual cycle awareness. And so when people talk about perimenopause and menopause and it's all sort of getting smushed into one, it is a bit like the pre-menstrum and menstruation,

all being smushed into one. and us losing the integrity of these different seasons of our lives. So this is the inner autumn of our menstruating years, which is not the end. It is this profound process of moving deeper and deeper into oneself and coming more and more into one's power, one's authority, greater awareness of oneself so that when you come to the end, i.e. the inner winter of your life, of your menstruating life, which is menstruation, and it's a multi-year process. I mean, menopause, sorry, menopause, and it's a multi. You can be forgiven on day too.

Yeah, I'm allowed to say. Yeah, so menopause is a multi-year process. You're in that inner winter. quite some time, you are prepared for that death, that ending. Yeah. And then, of course, importantly, and this is the bit that menstrual cycle awareness and just all cyclical awareness teaches us that that ending of menopause is not the end, is the beginning of a new cycle. You know, it's a death and rebirth, and then you move into post-menopause life. So that context is also just so powerful to have. Yeah, and another spring and another summer. And yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like coming back to this word humiliation, which Rebecca brought in and

that you spoke, said, would speak to Alexandra. So you speak about this is a time of passing through the veils of unveiling a series of psychological, developmental, mini initiations that are leading to the big initiation of menopause and that they can be experienced as very painful, very messy, humiliating, but they're also profoundly ennobling.

They are. Now, I want to emphasise here that everything that we're experiencing is predicated on who we are and the life that we are living and have lived. So for everyone,

this experience is going to be unique. It's so important to emphasize that. And so I want to just say a little more about that. So the more stress you have had in your life overall and are experiencing at this time, the more the challenges you encounter, they may feel bigger. And if you're also carrying a lot of trauma, trauma, historical trauma, childhood trauma in your system, as you are getting older and

becoming, you know, more permeable, that's the nature of getting older. And can you just, I don't want to mess with your flow, I definitely don't want to mess with you at all in any way today, as we have noted. But when you say permeable, could you just unpack that term a little bit? Yes, I can. As we. As we, we get older, and you don't have the energy, the physical yang energy that you had, say, in your 20s or 30s. And when there's a lot of physical chi in our system, that's like a buffering, or I want to even say an armoring.

It makes you less sensitive order to raise. it's like you, when you've got chi, it's kind of life of, I mean, there's a kind of movement to take you out of the world because you've got energy. And anyone who has experienced extreme illness where, you know, chronic fatigue or something like that will know exactly what I mean, you know, suddenly you're just so much more vulnerable when you don't have that physical chi. Because, of course, you don't have the same substantiality in the world. You don't have the same capacity to, you know, our world is driven on drive and, you know, push and do.

And if your energies are dropping, you simply don't have capacity for that. So as you are getting older, that sheer yang doing energy is going to start diminishing. And this can feel like a real threat to our psyches, to our egos. So there's our first kind of, you know, oof, puncturing. You know, you're not going to live forever. Oh, I am not invincible. You know, there will be moments where you'll encounter that. And with that sort of decreasing energy, so you're becoming more sensitive to things.

You're more vulnerable, actually. It's actually increasing vulnerability when I say permeability. And now we think of vulnerability. as a bad thing. And of course, being, you know, there is a level of vulnerability that is not good. We all need to have a degree of substantiality, if you like. But there is an important aspect of vulnerability

is that it makes us more sensitive to life, to the world around us. So we are actually, as we get older, increasingly becoming more sensitive. Now, if you don't know how to deal with that, and meet that psychologically, you're going to see that as a threat to yourself or your ego. And also, you may come up then with defence mechanisms like becoming more embittered or cynical or, you know, we retreat into habits of thinking and we've become fossilised, basically.

And that's one way of protecting yourself against vulnerability. Fossilisation of your psyche, of your thinking, you know, you stop expanding. But this increasing vulnerability is an invitation into a spiritual consciousness, which you do not have access to when you are younger. It is an extraordinary sense where, you know, your senses start to open up more and more and more. However, your psyche has to grow up to be able to take responsibility for that increasing permeability, that increasing sensitivity, or you go down those rabbit health. that I've just been describing.

And these unveiling moments, these moments when you start to feel the limits of yourself, you suddenly feel, oof, overwhelmed, or, you know, one of the signs of becoming more permeable is anxiety coming up. That's often a key thing that people encounter in their early 40s and then go, this is it, this is menopause. This is, no, this is you just discovering

that, you know, you are actually becoming more permeable but more sensitive. And now that anxiety is a signal of needing to tend to yourself. And that would be very particular for each person, what that means. I mean, we can say general things about that. But if you don't, if there is no languaging around this, it just is seen as horrible and, well, it is not good, obviously. It doesn't feel good at the moment.

No. But it is not, there's no meaning behind. it and then it feels like, oh, this is it, and it's going to get worse and worse and worse. So the unveiling moments, when you hit these speed bumps where something disturbing comes in, to treat it as a moment of, I was using the word unveiling, but an invitation. So think of the unveiling as an invitation into more known. knowing within yourself, more an invitation into depth. And because what's happening with this increasing vulnerability is you're coming into a

different kind of power. So I talked about spiritual forces, a different kind of authority. You can't rely on the sheer physical yang energy of doing, doing, doing. You have got to tap into a very different kind of power, which is very potent and very, very powerful. and it's the kind of power this world needs today. It's rooted in our vulnerability, actually. It's rooted in the fact that we feel more and we're more sensitive to everything around us.

So we've got more awareness going on. But it requires enormous kind of self-responsibility. So actually, one of the phrases that sort of came up for Shawnee and I when we were thinking about this is that these unveilings are helping you to move from victim consciousness into more and more self-responsibility. I mean, I would say that is the work of these unveiling things. Shifting from that, you know, the world's against me,

into greater and greater. And by the way, that victim consciousness, you know, it still lives on, but you're much smarter about it and you get out of it much quicker. but into this, so that self-responsibility becomes the base note of who you are, responsibility, and I don't mean that in a burdensome way, but it's, you know, really taking charge of who you are and your place in the world. And so you have to go through a whole developmental arc in your 40s,

which is another way of saying your ego is going to be tested over and over again. And when the ego is tested and it does not like it and you don't have the wherewithal to meet that, it can feel, it can feel humiliating actually. So humiliations can come up when we suddenly realize we don't have the same capacity. And if we're not tending to our boundaries and we're not doing our inner work, then that can feel humiliating. Yeah, and frightening and scary. Exactly.

Uncertain and unstable and all that. And it's compounded by the fact that we live in enormously demanding, stressful, distressing times. I'm going to take a moment to share a bit about Alexander and Sharnie's upcoming online menopause course, which is called Menopause the Great Awakener. It starts on October the 31st. And each year, hundreds gather to take this journey through the five phases of the menopause spiritual initiation. And many come back year after year. You can find out more about the course at Red Schoolmenopause.com. And here's a story from Amini about her experience.

I'm 51 and I've been journeying through menopause with the medical lens for a number of years, finding it a real struggle. Then I fell upon your teachings and resources and you have changed my life. I'm a psychology graduate and work in the field of trauma-informed education, and basically I regard myself as one switched-on lady. But the menopause hit me like a bullet train. I thought I was broken, mad, surplus, disposable. The veil has been lifted from my eyes. Once you know, or rather remember, you can't unknow. Everything I do and think now is with a cyclical lens. This new understanding of menopause is helping me heal. you, Amelia. So you can find out more about the course if you'd like to join at Red Schoolmenopause.com. And let's get back to the conversation with Alexandra and Shani.

I think part of the humiliation also is that in our 20s and 30s, we've developed like really good coping mechanisms, very good armoring, very good, like, ways of being in the world to protect our vulnerability, to protect our wounding. And what happens in our 40s is we have experiences and we come up against things that really challenge those habits of being or those like those masks actually. And they get challenged so profoundly. so deeply that really we must stop and ask ourselves, you know, what's really real for me, actually, what's really true for me?

How do I really feel about this experience I'm having rather than kind of going into the old like reaction or like controlling or coping or victiming, you know, like, oh, this is happening to me, typical, you know, X, Y, Z. And that's what's so humiliating actually is because we come so face to face with ourselves. It's like a moment of almost confession of actually going, wow, like this is my part in this. This is where I've been unconscious. This is where I've been blind. This is where I've been unwilling to feel how deeply this hurts or how deeply this touches me.

Yeah. And although that is humiliating in the moment, it's also such a relief to finally just like see yourself and sort of make peace with that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe we can share some examples of this. I know you wanted to speak about your story, Sharnie, and I have a story from my life that's coming up strongly right now. and then we also have a story from Jen. But just a quick example from my life is definitely in the 40s. What I've been confronted with is this pattern of man-hating, essentially, you know, born from early traumas, and it comes out at aid, and I've spoken about this on the podcast loads, but the humiliating part has been recognizing how uncontrollable that pattern is.

When I feel hurt, I have. attack. And it's taken me these last four years just to slowly, like one percent, one percent, one percent at a time have a little bit more space between ow and then attack him. You know, get angry at him, blame him. Whether I say it out loud or not, resent him, blame him. It's from that victim place. And it's so, it's been so excruciating to feel like, God, how have I got to this age of my life and I'm still doing this. That's been the humiliating part. But there's so much freedom in it now because the relationship we have is so much deeper because I've been willing to face the humiliation of it rather than just keep going in the old group. So that's one example

from my, we'll probably carry on throughout. I'll be punctured again many times, I'm sure. But it's, yeah, that's where I'm at the moment. Such a beautiful example of what this unveiling is because suddenly you see clearly now, you know, the veils have fallen and then you can't really now ever go back. No. Can't. No, it's amazing then. I do, but then I see if I've done.

You pick it up very quickly, yeah, because it's, it's almost like this Pavlovian response and but you've got more and more awareness to catch it now. That's, you know, I think, because we still have that vestigial thing in us, I think. It does really does annoying things. It's like he gets out of the bath with his wet feet and makes the whole bathroom mat and bathroom floor wet and I go in with my socks and my socks get wet. That's not okay for me.

He still does that, but I did no longer attack him for it. Living with people is impossible in perimenopause. Yeah, I know. I just want to say one thing before we get into the stories because you were mentioning the terms Chi and Yang there, Alexandra, and it made me think of, because they're East Asian medicine terms. And we had a whole perimenopause conversation with Chris Gonzalez, who's an East Asian medicine practitioner. And it's very helpful through that East Asian medicine lens. So to get back

and listen to that if people are interested. Oh yeah. That's cool. So there's this story from Jen and she says, when I turned 41, I began to have crippling and irrational anxiety. I began an antidepressant and an anti-anxiety medication which helped some. I was diagnosed with PMDD. At 42, I was still really struggling with anxiety and depression and I chose to engage in old coping behaviours, dependence on alcohol, that were not helpful for my body, mind or the greater process at work. At 43, I experienced the biggest portrayal of my adult life and it sent me spiraling into despair, depression, extreme anxiety, self-doubt and more. I was having hot flashes that would come on abruptly and leave me exhausted. I couldn't sleep. My blood pressure was elevated to the point medication was needed. I would bleed for 28 days, have two weeks off, bleed for 13 more days, have three weeks off,

bleed again for an extended time. I was perpetually exhausted. My immune system was shot and low-grade cervical cancer cells took hold. In hindsight, this was my body's way of alerting me to the unprocessed traumas of my life. Yeah, and Jane's story is not uncommon. often have people sharing in our community hub or writing to us who, you know, are in the late 30s, 40s and are being hit by similar experience. And I think the first thing to say, which is so easy to overlook, is the kind of tending to our self-care when the disturbance hits

taking care of ourselves and creating the foundation of nourishment in our lives, in our body and being is just absolutely crucial. And I know when you're in a tsunami and somebody's telling you to sort of get out your sort of umbrella and put your raincoat on, it might seem, you know, like it won't hold. however trust us on this the the core thing when you hit the autumn of your menstruating years because you're going through a gear change is to shift your lifestyle and your self-care to meet your needs now because your needs are suddenly different and often we only realize that our needs have changed when we start getting these symptoms you know whether they're

mental and emotional or physical symptoms. The symptoms are the signal that there's been a gear change and we need to change. So that's the first thing. But then the sort of second layer to tend to, which is in a way more obvious, is the trauma that's surfacing. You know, as Alexandra said, we're in a developmental process in our 40s. are maturing at a rate of knots. This is, you know, where you grow up is in the autumn of your menstruating years.

And that means when we say grow up, we mean take greater and greater responsibility for yourself and also hold, have more and more awareness of yourself and the effect that you have on others. So, yeah, part of this developmental work is actually, tending to what lies beneath the armouring that we've been, you know, wearing through our younger adult life. And these strong feelings that come up in our 40s are in a way the breaking through of that armoring. And it's the trauma that trauma that is resurfacing. as Jen has said.

And I suppose I just want to say this because I've had this experience and I know others will be experiencing this. You'll find that you are feeling things that are completely disproportionate to the situation. And that is a sure sign that some old trauma is being surfaced.

And this isn't a time for quick fixes. It really is a time. to deeply meet what is arising and in Jen's case it was the anxiety and it's in that engagement with what's coming up in you like slowing down enough to really bring some presence to what's happening and to let yourself encounter it that the process of healing happens that you are then in really this developmental unfolding, you know. Alexandra, do you want to say something about that? Because we've had quite a few conversations.

I think you said slowing down, Shani. And I think this is the magic phrase, especially, for instance, around anxiety. but actually with any big thing that's coming up for you or anything that's coming up for you the first thing is to find some way to slow the pace of your life because it's like the pace of your life is faster than what your nervous system what your emotional capacity can keep up with and it's that tension that will activate all these feelings and also the fact of course within that that's happening within the context of you

becoming more open and sensitive and permeable so the more open you become the slower you have to become because you are now dealing with more information coming in more power coming in and if you try to keep going with the old mode of being you are going to screw things up and And in that screwing up, it's very crude language, sorry, but, you know, it's, it agitates, your system just becomes agitated. So this slowing down and then, honestly, the self-care is so radical, just really starting with basic nervous system management and rest, slowing down, rest would be absolutely the first port of call just stillness and then you know all the other things that are needed but it is to

you the more you move through your 40s the more you have to become aware of the pace of your actual energy and the actual state of your nervous system in your 20s and 30 early 30s you can just override it all because you've got got chi in the bank wow that this is actually the thing that you're doing in your 40s, I've realized as I was listening to you speak there, Alexandra, is you're building a surer, stronger connection to yourself. And so when these strong feelings come up and these old traumas surface, you're actually, if you can slow down, if you can bring presence to it, you're creating a much deeper connection to yourself and particularly to those parts of yourself that have been unconscious.

And this is the other part of the humiliation, right? I have done a lot of inner work and yet I was completely blindsided by what came up for me in terms of childhood trauma. I couldn't believe the enormity of unprocessed feelings that I was suddenly feeling. And this is the thing, you know, we can do so much inner work. But there is oftentimes a huge iceberg below the waterline that we have been unaware of. And when we come into the autumn of our menstruating years, that is what starts to show itself. And it's very humbling to realize how unconscious we've been of that, you know, yeah, and how big those feelings are.

And what it takes to bring presence and connection to yourself in that place, in that incredible vulnerability. And like you said, like we said in this conversation, there's often so much happening in the 40s around life. So back to my example, being aggressive at aid, I had a two-and-a-half-year-old. So I was 42, two-and-a-half-year-old in the middle of a house renovation. It's so much happening in the world

that I was engaged with from an activism perspective too, like so much, so much suffering in the world. And my nervous system just was completely, like I went camping with you, Sharnie, and I remember you looked me in the eye and you said, so-so, you're doing really well, you're not okay honey you're not okay i was like dude that's mean but you were right you were saying just so you know you know your nervous system is is um you're very dysregulated is what you were

saying to me really and we had a lovely time and your daughters looked after artie and i actually got to rest for a bit which was very helpful but my point is i went to those default aggression patterns to defend myself because i was my nervous system was completely disregulated And for me, actually, rest felt impossible because of that dysregulation. So for me, it was practicing regulation first, which actually needed to do because I had got a very sensitive child who needed me to be regulated so that he could be regulated, which was kind of helpful. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, like, thank you, Artie. So, so, yeah, as I practiced regulating more, I got closer to myself, I got to see where I was acting from that I'd been doing it since I was, you know, 13 in defense of myself. and that I didn't need to do that pattern anymore because I was safe, blessedly. I am safe now in this relationship. And so it's like, yeah, that encountering, slowing down enough, being regulated enough to encounter it to be with it

and then to shift. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, when we talk about the first layers being creating this foundation of nourishment, it is absolutely about bringing some regulation and soothing to ourselves because it's so much that we're so much responsibility we're holding and so much power that we're meeting in ourselves that if we don't have that foundation of soothing that that's the crucible for healing to happen you know that we need the foundation

of soothing and regulation in a sense of enough safety in ourselves to be able to do this developmental work that I've been talking about. So, yeah, your story is, yeah, really significant. Speaking of crucibles for healing, you know, the crucible of crucibles is menstrual cycle awareness. And this is what turned Jen's experience around was actually discovering menstrual cycle awareness. Shall I read it?

Shall I read it? Yes, I think bringing it is a lovely example. Yeah, she said, My 45th year, I dove deeply into menstrual cycle awareness and intentionally worked with my old childhood wounds that seemed to be getting activated by the betrayal I experienced. I think those first four years I was in a perpetual veil with something shouting at me to please pay attention,

please wake up to myself. With the work I'm doing with Red School and being oriented to my inner maps. She's talking about the inner seasons map there and the five chambers of menstruation map. I'm much better equipped and resourced to meet these veil moments now as they still come, but with way less intensity than before.

I manage anxiety now with menstrual cycle awareness and mindfulness and listening partnerships. I'm off my antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. My blood pressure has stabilized without medication. my immune system got healthy again and resolved the pre-cancerous cells and my cycles are back to the reliable comforting and familiar pattern I had been accustomed to. Amazing. It is amazing.

I think there's many aspects to the power of menstrual cycle awareness, but one thing for me is what you're doing is you're building this relationship with yourself through menstrual cycle. awareness you're building both self-awareness and with that you're building the muscle of of so I want to say self-care but what I'm thinking about here is um cycle awareness organically um strengthens your sense of self so that you can assert your boundaries more and more so it really supports um being able to live in sync with yourself more and more and more.

And this has the effect of being more soothing on oneself. And even when life throws all these curves balls at us as it does, you know, with work and, you know, our children and things like that, always knowing where you are in your cycle and just being aware of the sensitivities that you have or the limits you have and what your energy is like, makes you, you do all this, I think these kind of micro adjustments within your psyche with yourself. Yes, you still have to go to that parent evening or you've still got to turn up for all those meetings

and things you had to do, Sophie. But you had a certain awareness of yourself. And, you know, and you see you just, you prepared for it by having that day before. That's one of the things I say to people, actually. Grab the day closest to your bleed and take that regardless as a rest day. It's all those sorts of things. And that's always a meaningful nod to your psyche.

And it's deepening you into this well of meaning. And you have then this kind of muscle memory that you're developing around being able to meet initiatory moments. You know, you've got this sort of muscle memory that you're developing around being able to meet initiatory moments. You know, you've got this. sort of more self-holding because ultimately with initiations the crucial thing is the degree of self-awareness you have and the degree of kindness you hold with yourself. Those two things and being able to hold with self-awareness, being able to hold a degree of a presence of sort of of meta-communicating even as you're completely taken over by something. There is still someone at home

if you like there that somehow subtly witnessing and even witnessing that you can no longer witness and you need help you know that sort of realization i just need someone else right now it's too big it's too much yes so to point to a resource there if you are in your 30s 40s and feeling some of what we've been talking about then there's the cycle power course which is self-paced can start it any time, which is a great introduction. Well, it's more than an introduction. It's the most comprehensive course created about menstrual cycle awareness to get started with this cycle-aware self-care and boundaries and yet to really start practicing it in your

life. That's what people say when they take the course. It's like, oh, okay, I'd read the book, but now I really get it and I can really practice it in my life. So that's there. And for those that are listening, that are really inside. this sacred apprenticeship to menopause

or in fact listening and inside the great initiation of menopause, then menopause, the great awakening the course is coming up and you can find out about it at red schoolmenopause.com. Okay, so to to wrap up this conversation,

Alexandra, could you just summarize what it is that, you know, the message that you really want to bring here with perimenopause as a sacred preparation for menopause. Well, the crucial thing is to honour where you are in your life journey. And so we're in our conversation today, we've been wanting to expand out rather than conflate perimenopause, menopause, and into one mush, we've been expanding it out so that you can see the detailing of what's involved. And I want you to know that you are, you're not broken. It's not

the end. You are stepping into, you know, in your 40s, you're stepping into a sacred, an apprenticeship in preparation for the extraordinary potency that menopause holds. And, and And to meet these moments, these speed bumps, these, you know, challenges, to meet them, to have some part of your brain that's just holding, oh, this is a moment of inner work to go deeper into myself, to see them as invitations into greater self-responsibility, to greater self-care. I mean, just even holding that phrase self-worth.

care, an invitation into deeper and deeper self-care, you are then deepening into yourself more and more. And you're actually going to feel good. You know, even as you have, as Shani said, you know, moments of humiliation that she's encountered, they have been liberating. They have been actually ultimately freeing for her. And, you know, as you meet it, you deepen. And then you find a new place within yourself that is, I want to say, ennobling. We use that word at the beginning.

It's ennobling. It's strengthening. It really, really is strengthening. So you're not broken. Honor yourself. Bring kindness to it. And just hold that self-care. Hold the line on that.

And it takes time, all of these things. And we need each other. We need each other. That's so true. need to keep having these conversations over and over again and to keep hearing other people's stories and oh yeah because we forget. Yeah. Thanks so much you too. See you next time. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thanks for joining us today. If you know someone who is in the 40s, the autumn of the menstruating years, this perimenopause time and would appreciate hearing this perspective,

please forward this podcast to them and it's also so helpful for the podcast if you're enjoying it if you could come and leave a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts we would really really appreciate it thank you so much we'll be together again next week

with another menopause focused episode and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm Thank you.