The Menstruality Podcast - 223. How to Work with the Moon as Your Calendar (April McMurtry)

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

The moon is a big topic of conversation within the Red School community. Many who aren’t menstruating practice lunar tracking in place of menstrual cycle awareness, and those who have a menstrual cycle often bring moon-inspired questions, such as: ‘should I bleed on the full moon or the new moon?’ And ‘what to do when I’m bleeding but the moon is full and I feel pulled in two directions?’. So today we’re exploring how cultivating a connection with the moon can support us to enter circular and cyclical time. Our guest today is visual artist and mother April McMurtry. April has been lunar tracking for twelve years, and describes herself as a guide for repairing our relationship with the cyclical nature of time by attuning to the moon.In today’s conversation we explore how following the ebb and flow of the moon can help us to transform our habits of overriding of our cyclical nature, as well as break free from the myth and tyranny of consistency.We explore:April's fascinating response to the question of whether we should bleed on the full moon or the new moon (and it might be different to what you think). How motherhood brought April to burnout, which led her to step back from teaching and lean into the wisdom of the moon as a way to get grounded in rhythms, rest and stillness.The beauty that can be found in darkness, and how the end of all cycles deconstructs, dissolves and empties us out in preparation for the new. ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyApril McMurtry: @themoonismycalendar - https://www.instagram.com/themoonismycalendar

Welcome to the menstruality podcast where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexander and Sharney, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers, and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world.

Hey, welcome to the menstruality podcast. So the Moon is a big topic of conversation within the Red School community. Many who aren't menstruating practice lunar tracking. in place of menstrual cycle awareness. And those who have a menstrual cycle often bring moon-inspired questions like, should I bleed on the full moon or the new moon? And what to do when I'm bleeding, but the moon is full and I feel pulled in two directions.

So today, we're exploring how cultivating a connection with the moon can support us to enter circular and cyclical time, as our guest today calls it. She is visual artist and mother, April McMurtry. April has been lunar tracking for over 12 years and describes herself as a guide for repairing our relationship with the cyclical nature of time by attuning to the moon.

In today's chat, we look at how following the urban flow of the moon can help us to transform our habits of overriding our cyclical nature, as well as break free from the myth and the tyranny of consistency that is so expected in our world. And as you should be able to. And as you here later on. We actually recorded this way back when the summer solstice was happening here in the Northern Hemisphere. So it feels very potent to finally be releasing it here as we're heading towards the winter solstice. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. Let's get started with How to Work with the Moon as your calendar with April McMurtry. April, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. We get so many questions about

the moon and the connection between the moon and the menstrual cycle and how to track with the moon. And I was chatting with Sharnie and Sharnie said, we have to get April Mertrion from the moon is our, you know, the moon is my calendar. Like she is the one. So I'm so glad that you're here. Oh, wonderful. Thank you so much for inviting me into this conversation. It seems like a beautiful time for us to meet because the dark moon is here, right? We're just, we're just really in the dark moon phase right now. Yeah, it's that moment of, wait, it's over. The cycle is actually coming to an end.

And truly, there is within cycles, there isn't an ending or beginning necessarily. There is this kind of continuity. But working with a lunar cycle does give that sense of we're wrapping up before a new moon. So that feelings, feelings that can come along with endings can often arise around this time. And I happen to also be on day 28 of my cycle, and I'm expecting to bleed maybe in two more days, but I do feel in a very dark moon place inside. I feel very permeable and like the boundaries of my body are a bit more amorphous and that I'm quite floaty in my consciousness.

How about you, April? What cycles are you really with today and how are they influencing you? Yeah. You know, there's both for you what you're describing that the lunar cycle kind of sinking up with the menstrual cycle in this way of everything's dissolving all at once. And for me, the overlap of those wheels of the moon and the wheel of the menstrual cycle, I can appreciate working with the moon and lunar time. And then with the inner cycle, which for me is, shifts around the dial with the moon. Every six months, I'll bleed with the new moon, and six months later, I'll be bleeding with the full moon, so there's this full range of experiences that I have. So currently on my menstrual cycle, this is day 19, no, this is day 20. And I'm about, I'm planning for a trip, actually, we're flying out tomorrow on the new moon.

So I have this sense of needing to wrap up things at home. really look at what did not get accomplished and have that kind of a reality check and then at the same time preparing for an adventure and a new experience. There's a certain kind of heaviness that sets in for me with a slowing down on the second half, like the waning half of the lunar of the lunar of the menstrual cycle. I mean both sometimes, but in this case, this feeling of, oh, I'm slowing down, but also gearing up for something. And I think that kind of awareness, rather than going full force into something of acknowledging the body and the messages from the body, is helpful in determining how much output of energy am I going to put into

something at the same time sort of drawing inward. Cycles within cycles, within cycles, right? Oh my goodness, so many. There's many layers and it's really this dynamic. It's so dynamic. I would love to go there actually about the intersection between your menstrual cycle tracking and your lunar tracking because one of the things that comes up a lot in the Red School community is, you know, I hear that I should be bleeding on the new moon or what does it mean if you bleed on the full moon? And I just wonder if we can unpack some of that through the lens of your experiences of how different. it feels to be moving through the different phases of the menstrual cycle or the seasons of the menstrual cycle along with the different phases of the moon for you. Yeah. You know, I would describe it as so this is my 12th year of daily lunar tracking. And when I say, I'm like, wow, 12 years. When I say

lunar tracking, I'm specifically talking about working on a circular calendar that's the new moon calendar and journal, which I designed and created as a place for inner work. As a place for this is not my to-do lists or my like, I don't know, it's more of the like, what's going on inside, what's going on under the surface? What are the factors that are at play? So this is after 12 years, there's so much that I've, so much that I've learned and so much that I've in community learned from others on this journey. I think early on, I would get sick every four, like within a lunar cycle, one of those weeks, either I would be sick or my kids would be sick. And I can see now a lot of it was because of overriding my own energy and just trying to be consistent, which I think

many cyclical beings and many women are seeing there is this pressure to be consistent. And so the moon really helps us break free from that, working with the lunar cycle and working with a moon calendar in a circular format that gives this sense, even with the eyes, kind of tracking around a circle, rather than trying to fit into box. of time that are linear. That was my upbringing. And I was like, this does not resonate with anything in me, but I didn't quite know yet what alternatives there were. It's been quite a journey. And I think starting out, I really focused on the lunar cycle more than the menstrual cycle to get into a rhythm and a groove with feeling into circular and cyclical time. And then

seeing how my own body was a part of that. And does it feel distinctly different to you to bleed on a full moon as opposed to a new moon? Yeah. In what way? I think the doubling up and the full moon is in opposition already between the sun and the moon. And so the heightened energy that's often present around a full moon to be bleeding at the same time feels very. it can have a different kind of intensity to it. I think in the efforts for understanding,

what does it mean if I bleed at the full moon? Giving significance or naming around, like, am I in a white moon phase or a red moon phase of my life? Or whatever kinds of frameworks, right? And maybe you're familiar with some of those. I've really seen it as how can I navigate and negotiate these waves of energy and the more awareness there is of what's going on internally

as well as what's going on in that wave of energy of a lunar cycle having a sense of what am I navigating right now and what tools do I need to do that and how can I be present rather than thinking that every full moon is going to be the same, or even every bleed is going to be the same somehow and just repeat itself. It really is dynamic. And so what I hear in the question that you asked is this searching for meaning

and searching for perhaps like a language or framework to talk about or understand. And I would say with the work of Alexandria and Sharnie is really emphasizing a kind of seasonal approach is very helpful in giving language to an understanding to the changes from one week to the next or one phase to the next, where it feels like, whoa, I'm just in a completely different place. And the lunar cycle being an anchor to hold all of that change. Let me know if I'm getting this right. Right, because it's really interesting to, I'm realizing now, as we're settling into this interview, to be interviewing from this place of the void before the bleed and the dark moon, because I, I'm needing to close my eyes and really breathe to stay in contact with the thread of our conversation.

But when I do, I can feel these kind of ribbons of connection between us. and I'm just following them. It feels like what you're saying is that in this world, which is so really obsessed with linear and consistency and rational often, there can be a quest to kind of put things into boxes when it comes to cycle awareness or lunar tracking or to try and get something right

or see if we're getting it wrong when actually what the practices are apportioning. us to, is this ongoing, intense, beautiful fluidity of all of it and of everything. Yeah, I would say that it would be nice if it was nice and tidy. And I think even when I've heard some people talk about the moon and the lunar cycle and time and even saying like the moon cycle is 28 days, just like a menstrual cycle. And for whatever reason, I get so bristly and feel like this is a part of an oversimplification of what is very fluid and won't fit into nice and tidy, even within the lunar cycle, there's 29 and a half days. And so what to do with a half day?

Like that doesn't fit nice and tidy into any kind of, and I've, even this last year, really felt the sense of months, months are like these fences, that fence off something that wants to be like, like this wave or this like movement of a snake that's moving. And then there's this fence. And the month creates that around a lunar cycle because they don't coincide. There isn't a way that they match up. And so it's really actually working with two different systems. And as I'm speaking now, it feels like there might be working within the two different cycles of the moon and the menstrual cycle that one doesn't necessarily match up. or line up perfectly. And I think whenever I've seen that, you know, in ancient times,

all of our ancestors bled on the new moon, I've looked and I felt into what feels true. Would that really be the case that all bodies would bleed together? I know that there is a sinking up that can happen. I live in a household with two other. There's three of us who menstruate. and sometimes that sometimes it sinks up but it not always and i think there's something beautiful and wanting to sink be in sync like that desire that may be underneath that to be attuned

to nature in a way to feel in sync but i don't think you need to bleed on the new moon and obviously on the full moon in order to do that or to feel that or to be in sync Mm-hmm. Like there's always something there to be in sync with every single phase of the moon and every single day of the menstrual cycle. Yeah. I can feel some of what these 12 years have worked in you. And it makes me curious to go back to the beginning and understand what called you to the moon. And I was reading through your website. And one of the things that really intrigued me that you wrote was I've learned much. of what I know about cycles from my father and the flowers. It made me so curious to hear more about that. Yeah. As I have been telling the story to myself of what is it and how is it that I came to know about cycles or where does that live in my body that was like early memories and it didn't start with

the moon. I think it really started with this awareness that my father, without even naming, it directly or explicitly talking about this is how cycles work. He was a full-time teacher. He was a high school English teacher. And he also ran a gardening business. Wow. That's a lot. It is a lot. When I think about both of my parents, I'm like, wow, they worked a lot to be able to make things work for the family. And he loves working with the earth. And my awareness really came from the seasonality. of the garden, of the vegetable garden and of the compost pile. I'm laughing because every time I go and visit my dad, he takes me out to show me how his

compost is doing. Goodness. It is so sweet. It's so touching. You know, in a way that, like, my dad shows me love is he'll give me buckets of compost. Yes. Don't buy cucumbers. We have all the cucumbers.

Yeah. And so to have like the sense of seasonality of, of when to plant and of when to prune, he planted two cherry trees, one for me and my sister. And so they grew up, we grew up with these cherry trees that got, you know, to be taller than the house. Wow. And this was all in a rental in suburbia. This wasn't like I didn't grow up in the countryside. Both my parents had this sense of you make something more. beautiful. You leave something more beautiful than it, than it was when you received it or

inherited, even if it's not yours to own. And so, yeah, I grew up there maybe till I was about 10. So when it was time for the cherry season to come, we could climb the trees and pick the cherries. And so that kind of awareness of seasons early on, and especially the compost pile, seeing that renewal, that part of when there isn't waste and there's a renewal that feeds back into this whatever system, even if it's the creativity of, like, projects that didn't go according to plan or, you know, things that might otherwise seem like a failure, when it's, when we're operating within a cyclical awareness and understanding, that's the compost that feeds into what did I learn from things not going how I thought they might, right? So many levels,

so many layers. And yeah, my dad had the, I mean, still, vegetable garden, and then my mom was always planting flowers and roses. And so growing up in the garden, I feel like that, that brought the awareness of looking at every phase and stage of a flower. And I think we also live in a culture of blooming of when am I, like, feeling on top of my game and the most, like, external or outwardly shining, that blooming phase, which is so beautiful. And acknowledging that as one phase, there's so much else that goes into that. Yeah, bless us. We're so obsessed with that, aren't we, as a culture. We're obsessed with the bloom. but forget about the composting and the messy failures

and the quiet death that needs to happen in order for that bloom to happen. Oh, it's so beautiful hearing you speak, April. And then another thing you spoke about on your site, I think, was how it was burnout, your experience of burnout that really connected you to the moon, which is such a common experience in our community. It's my experience, too.

You know, I had to hit a rock bottom of, I have as you said at the beginning overridden myself trying to be consistent when I'm not consistent and I yeah I crashed and could you tell us a bit about your experience and how it led you to to the moon I think there's a moment of realizing I can't do it all and maybe I could when I was younger or before I had kids if I wanted to stay up and paint all night I could I could do that and that all caught up with me and so I think motherhood is a really that's what brought me to the edge and over the edge of burnout is because I hadn't quite learned to care for myself cyclically of what I needed at different phases and so then

adding in children into that whole equation um was I just had had to get grounded in all senses of the word of, like, grounded in rhythms, grounded in like just staying still for a little while. I used to every, you know, every several months, I would be traveling and working or volunteering or studying abroad. And with kids, I wanted to kind of keep that up and it became very clear. No, you're grounded. You are grounded. And I resisted so much, but it was a kind of a time for setting down roots. And so I was still, I was a classroom teacher as well and teaching and doing lots of creative projects and caring for, I have two children. My oldest is now 18, which is really, almost 18 in a couple months. And then when I

had my second. I was teaching and doing consulting work and just thought I could keep all the burners on. And so physically things started showing up like muscle twitches and nerve twitch type things beyond just the little eye twitch and my hair falling out and just I was like, I think I'm a little too young for this to be happening. All of of this all at once really were these signs of adrenal fatigue and these signs of just running on fumes. And so I stepped back from a lot of the things that I was doing. And it was really hard because I identify as a teacher, sort of my being able to say like I teach at this particular school and have an identity around all of that for my own health and to see my

my own, my kids as well to be there there for them in a way where I was present and not just dragging myself through the day. I just had to put on the breaks, which meant I didn't go back to teaching in the classroom. There was this sort of overlap time where I started creating the moon calendar, but I didn't quite know what was next. I was still teaching, but then in this very liminal in between space. I actually think this was a Pluto transit to my son. A sun in Capricorn and Pluto and Capricorn. And so it really did have that feeling of like, I'm dying.

Everything is coming crashing down that I've built up of my own sense of identity and self. So that happened sort of all simultaneously with the birth of creating the New Moon calendar and journal. and wanting a place to be held within something that had more rhythm and could teach me, really, things that I just, I was in a very solar operating mode. I think as many of us are and are taught to and aren't really shown another way. And so like I said, I would get sick once a cycle. So I would teach these four-week courses and I needed to find a substitute or cancel the class or whatever, one of those times, often one of those times. And it became very

clear that I just wasn't slowing down when I was bleeding, that it was just pushing through and didn't have practices in place that were more cyclical practices. It wasn't even really in my field of awareness. And so 12 years ago, I was like, maybe not even super consciously that this is, this is my plan to deal with burnout. It was just like the moon showed up. Oh, is that? Yeah. I had been meeting on the new moon for years before that, maybe, you know, since my oldest was born. So close to 20 years with my dear friend, Sita Davis, who is a part of this, of this journey, really, we would meet and just connect as early moms and even just going through what has happened, what has all transpired, taking stock of everything and then setting

intentions for the next cycle. That became a practice before I even had the new moon calendar and journal as a place to record that journey. It was really establishing this anchor with the new moon. Beautiful. One of the things that you describe in your work is that your work is about following the moon and finding yourself and you've started speaking about this in a few different ways already but what is it that we can become aware of or that we can understand about ourselves through being with the moon how does that work there's so many teachings that can arise and I feel like for me it was respecting rest and having more reverence for resting time whereas I thought I could burn then midnight oil and just because creativity in

early motherhood once the kids went to sleep I was like now's my time and then that would just be like a wreck the next day and for each of us I feel like there is there's a learning through attunement and by that I mean this attunement to natural cycles where we're able to pay attention and direct our attention the moon is always cycling. All the cycles before we were born. All of the cycles when we're no longer in this form. When we bring our awareness there, all of a sudden it's like a mirror to see the parts that have like the ability to flow with uncertainty, certain like fears around uncertainty, even fear of the dark. I used to be terrified. Like I would really

fear of the dark and for me like even nocturnal creatures like the raccoon it's amazing to think about and look back now where I'm like there's this ease with darkness and unknown that I didn't have before working this closely with the moon there's a trust in the process of unfolding and a trust also that that some seeds and some intentions don't come to fruition it's not like this magical manifesting machine it's not like you insert your intention and out pops like a million dollars or whatever the thing is um i think some people treat the moon that way like use the moon like use the full moon in this way and i and this has been a relationship and so for those of us who are who cultivate a relationship with the moon

and with cycles, there's a mirroring back and a better understanding of ourselves. I feel the same way about when I hear myself say or hear other people say, we can harness the different phases of the cycle or harness the different powers of the phases of the cycle. I think, oh, that sounds quite a lot like extractive, colonized capitalism to me. When I, when I, you know, and those patterns are very deeply in me as they are in, in most of us. And it's, it's interesting, yeah, it's beautiful to relax back into that truer, deeper flow here, which is of relationship, like you said, of relationship. Yeah, the relationship as a spiritual practice, that it can be that relationship with, with a greater mystery that can reveal.

And there's this movement between that. kind of realization or illumination or clarity or understanding that can sometimes feel so elusive that's like I thought I under even with the menstrual cycle right some of those moments where you're like it all makes sense I am in the right place at the right time doing the right thing with you know like everything sort of falling into place in that like clicking into place but when we think about that's a phase of a cycle and it's not like like a final destination and it just stays that way. I think we can even see in the year, right?

We're recording this right after the summer solstice in the northern hemisphere, winter solstice in the southern hemisphere. And so it's this one moment in, it's like the extreme of like what is what is the extreme that our earth reaches in terms of a mount of light or darkness. and then coming back from that. And that kind of pulse, right, is like, what is the limit or the extreme? And some of us go to that point and over the edge into a kind of a burnout or a breakdown. And the learning that can come from this pulse in nature that the earth follows and the season follows and the lunar cycle follows and our breath even follows that expansion.

and that like what might feel for each of us something within the expansion that feels like opening up and then noticing how it is that feeling of contraction which for some of us might feel like cozy and held and like oh yeah okay but for other us you know it might feel more tight or constricting and again that's speaking to this relationship that is so different than how do I bleed on the new moon so I'm attuned to nature? It's like how can we notice our own pulse and pulsing with something that's greater than us and more in a collective sense? I'm going to pause the chat with April just for a moment to share a couple of invitations.

The first is that Red School's annual free New Year retreat is coming up. It's called Your Menstrual Cycle, Your Oracle, and it's happening on Wednesday the 14th of January. You can join for free at Red School.net forward slash Oracle. It's such a beautiful event, and it's also a great event to attend if you're curious about working with Alexander and Shani more deeply in the 2026 menstruality leadership program. The Oracle event will give you a good taste of the deep way they work with the powers of the menstrual cycle and it'll give you a sense of the warmth and wisdom and brilliance of the Red School community that gathers for these trainings and these events. The doors for the menstruality leadership program will be open for a few more weeks and you can find out all about the program

at menstrualityleadership.com. And just before we get back to the conversation with April, here's a short story from one of the menstruality leadership program graduates, Christine, about one of the most important aspects of the course for her. I've always looked above myself and outside of myself. And over the last few years, I've thought more and more about the idea of divinity being within us. And this course has helped me so much to really feel that embodied divinity, like this idea that there is this perfection within us. And it's brought me so much peace.

It's helped me to also understand so much of the teachings that I've been learning about, you know before it was just kind of like these ideas that I took in and wanting to to understand them and now I'm able to understand them on such a different level because of this work and that's so powerful for me and such a great gift I'm just incredibly grateful I felt so moved back then when you said how the moon has been cycling for so long before you or I got here before humans got here before the animals were here before the dinosaurs were here like this has been a long time

and to pull out to that perspective it really connects me to the sacred the words I would use is that you know the sacred power of this practice of being with cycles the words that are coming through right now is this is our birthright and it

it allows me to turn the volume down on all the stories and messaging and ideas of this particular moment in history unfolding around us and it allows me to soften into these rhythms and pulses. I love that word pulse that you brought in that have been active and alive here on this planet for millions of years.

That's relaxing for me. And actually it makes me think of a story you just told on Substack. I always sort of semi-story. the people that I interview. I just go around and see what they've been writing and doing. And so I saw on SubSAC you went out into a beautiful wild place where there were these ancient fossils and you received some quite beautiful messages

about how lunar tracking can guide us collectively in this moment that we find ourselves in. Yeah, I live in the valley of a mountain and there's ridges that many have like shell. There's shell mounds, which is different than the ridges with the shells that are kind of unearthed from the bottom of the ocean through tectonic geological, big, massive change. And I think there was something about remembering that the way things are right now isn't how they've always been, that where I was standing on these shells used to be at the bottom of. of an ocean and now they're top side up and walked upon in this reminder of how much change has already transpired.

And so this comforting of like if things weren't always this way, then they don't have to be the way that they are now. And that the kinds of repeating cycles of harm, how often even darkness is associated with something bad or evil. And so I was up before the sun. I had intentionally set my alarm actually to say goodbye to the waning moon. The waning crescent is only visible right before dawn. That's a part of the cycle and a part of the nature practice and the knowing of each phase has its place and its particular timing. And the waning crescent rises. depending on the day, you know, a couple hours before the sun.

And then the sun comes up and the waning crescent sort of disappears into the day. So it was up and it was still dark and there can be so much stillness in the dark and clarity in the dark and beauty in this darkness. And that pulse and that alternating between light and dark and those liminal times in between of dawn and dusk that those. that those being cycles of harmony and that really just struck me really deeply that light and dark are these

dancing and how is it that they dance actually in harmony rather than harm wasn't like this dark is trying to harm the light it doesn't like that's not the expression that comes through in the cosmos in the universe and the bigger cycles they're alternating. And so it just made me question of how can that be an experience of more harmony than harm?

And just intentionally working on that, not even working, but just bringing in that teaching or that awareness of what it is that I cultivate within myself. And for each of us, what it is we're in that way of being a, gardener in our life and things that we're composting and perhaps the the healing that we're doing around cycles of different kinds of harm. Individually, the individual work that might seem like tracking self-study in relationship with these cycles is a part of a collective human experience. And it just made me wonder about how can so many of us who have those intentions of creating

more healing within cycles, collectively tipping the scales towards that beauty in the darkness and beauty in the light and bringing through an understanding of our collective and shared not just humanity, but all of us who are pulsing here with the life of the planet. All of us who are pulsing here with the life of the planet. I love that. You make me think of a conversation I had quite a long time ago actually. with a woman called Dorcas Cheng and she wrote a book. It's, ah, I think it's called highly activism for high sensitives.

I can't remember exactly the title now, but one of the, she's a very highly sensitive person and she's also an activist, social justice activist. And we were talking about how many different forms of activism there are. And I really like the language you brought there to, how this deep awareness of cycles and deep relationship with cycles is a form of collective activism moving us towards cycles of healing rather than perpetuating cycles of harm. And also how the moon and relationship with the moon and relationship with our menstrual cycles

too can be such a rejuvenating resource or an anchoring rhythm or pulse like you've been describing that can support us and hold us and nourish us as we take whatever forms of activism are ours to take in the world whether that's protesting or political campaigning or volunteering or you know whatever it looks like that there's yeah we can be fed and nourished by our relationships to cycles. Yeah. Finding ways to witness the miracles in life. And even when, you know, it's time for a lot of the early wildflowers or even the more

hardy flowers, at least where I am, the heat has come through and witnessing the phases of the journey, which really to me unfolds like this miracle of, wow, the plants keep showing up year after year. They go through a lot. They go through a lot to come into form and then die, at least for the annual plants that are cycling in that way and just witnessing that. And I think in the way that the lunar cycle mirrors the life cycle, the plants as well going from seed to sprout to bud and flower and fruit and then sharing or eating or bringing in that nourishment or turning into compost, that when we witness those phases of the cycle and identify ourselves where we are within the multiple pulses or the cycles within the cycles, having those

the kinds of tools for the release and the grieving the endings. And so I feel like where we're recording right now is that kind of emptying out, like the complete just emptying out to dissolve before a new cycle begins. And so what are the other things in our life or in our relationships or within our work that often a tendency is to hold on to something long past its time where it's maybe needed to be put to rest or shifted or dissolved or deconstructed to hold on to a form because of a kind of fear of the uncertainty or the unknown like I've gone through with experience with work. in my life and just identity type things of wanting to hold on to something that's known. And I feel like there's a lot of structures that have been built up that are just like starting to crumble and the cracks are there and they've been there, but there's something that's holding it together.

And it's like, what gets birthed? What gets birthed after this? And that is such an unknown. And I think that's where a lot of the imagining and imagination and, and dreaming and seeing beyond the current reality into something, could it be more beautiful? It's unknown, but it's a collective effort to birth something new.

And I do feel like with lunar tracking, there's an anchoring into knowing that this has happened over and over and over before. Yes. That's so beautiful. I've been listening to a book recently by, she's a climate scientist Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson I've talked about that on the podcast before

and she wrote a book called What If We Get It Right? Yes. Have you heard of it? Yeah, I listened to an interview with her and about her work in the book. Yeah, and it's such a good book and she's also very funny which really helps

because it's big what she's speaking about but yeah, so you know that in the book I think it's 21 different visionaries around Earth and climate that she speaks to and the question she's asking is, you know, what if we get it right? And it's a sobering read or listen because when we look out at the planet

and everything that's happening to the different ecosystems, it can be frightening to think how could we ever turn this around? But there's this inner spring energy of the book which is, well, it's not done yet. So since it's not done, let's just keep, let's just see what could be possible, you know, What if we could get this right? Because that energy is the, yeah, is the energy of possibility and exploration, curiosity.

I'm not sure quite where I got that from, from what you were saying, April. Well, I think that unknown of how does this, what gets birthed from here. Yes. And not putting up blinders, but also paying attention to what narrative is present. And I just think of the way for those of us who menstruate, the way that the body literally goes through cycles of death and rebirth through menstruation. It can be so potent and powerful that it brings us into relationship with death just within the menstrual cycle. And I mean, most people don't want to talk about death. And having that

experience of menstruation, the potential that's there for life and creation and creativity and birthing something new that doesn't have to be a child, the practice of grieving that, whether it feels like loss or it feels like relief or whatever that feeling might be within the body, that's also a practice with the moon and the lunar cycle of like this time of a lunar cycle coming to an end, feeling into that kind of what is being shed,

what gets left behind in this cycle. to start fresh and it's hard to start fresh if everything just piles on and carries over which is how I was living which then lays to the burnout and it's just like more and more and more and more that things build up and then can't hold or sustain and then our bodies give out it's usually what happens isn't it under the under the burden of all the accumulation can we segue into how to practice lunar tracking and maybe you could also share about your moon calendar with this too because I imagine that would be helpful to describe how that works. But how would you guide our listeners

to start tracking with the moon? Maybe alongside their menstrual cycle awareness practice or maybe if they don't have a cycle anymore because of menopause or pregnancy or another reason then how to make how to make the moon their calendar April. How do you do that? Yeah, really the first step is the, I think curiosity is a big part of it is being curious about what is the moon up to and noticing the moon in the day and in the night and how she weaves, she weaves in and out and bringing curiosity to that and sometimes even noticing what are the thoughts in your mind at a current moment and maybe looking up and seeing if you can see the moon. there's awareness and a witnessing and a hello, I see you, and being seen and witnessed as well. With the lunar calendar, I think it helps for the calendar to be circular and to start on the new moon. And to have the months be the thing that kind of, it's like a unit of time, right? A month is this unit of time.

And to start to not necessarily substitute, but perhaps. perhaps run parallel. I mean, this is most of our ancestors worked with a lunar calendar, and it was this visible reminder of shifting and the passage of time. And so this one that I've created has the new moon at the top, and then the phases go around kind of like a clock, and it goes clockwise. I know some culturally, the moon is also understood as going moon-wise as counterclockwise. I've kind of, I've experimented with both. And so moving cyclically in the circle phase by phase and the calendar, there's, you know,

there's an example on my website. And I made a little, a course that has very short videos about like foundations of lunar tracking. And it's different than journaling, I would say, because it's not about processing so much as just even bringing more like a symbolic awareness, that kind of mirroring. Sometimes there's like a moon story. Like when you're noticing a state that you're in and then you look up and see the moon, there's like this, okay, take a snapshot and notice what that experience was.

And the journal has, there's just like a space to maybe write three lines per day or per phase. to give a kind of snapshot to be able to reflect back on at the end of a cycle. And it's kind of, it can be like taking your emotional, it's the emotional landscape or the inner landscape or even your physical experience and things that that can show up pain or sensation or interactions and relationship. To take note of that and have this record that's almost like collecting data, it can be included with menstrual cycle awareness but if you don't bleed there's a connection and also the lunar cycle can then be that anchor or that guide with the menstrual cycle can complicate things

it can really like oh my goodness am i coming or am i going like which direction what's what direction are things happening in yes that on top of is the moon waxing or waning. It's all working with energy and it's becoming more fluid and fluent with knowing times of conserving energy, knowing times of the outward and inward, the spiral. Am I in a giving mode or receiving mode? How do those two things dance and shift rather than all in giving, giving, giving, giving, giving to depletion or all in taking, taking, but how do any of these kinds of things that are dynamic in their polarity, how are they actually a part of a cycle rather than a linear, it's either this or this, if that makes sense?

It makes a lot of sense to my day 28 self. It's like she's just leaning back on a, maybe like floating on a Lilo in a pool, in the sunshine, drinking something delicious, like she's in heaven right now inside this conversation. It's like exactly moon time, circular time. This is where I live. There are some questions that you put in somewhere that I found April. I'm not sure where when I was exploring your work. And you said at the end of each cycle or during the waning, you might wish to reflect on what came to fruition, what themes emerged, what are you ready to let go of and what seeds will you carry forward? They felt like a very good set of potent questions to,

begin with. Yeah. I love the practice of naming the moon and bringing that into really personalizing that relationship of if there's something that really stands out in a lunar cycle, giving that cycle a name for you to reference, oh, that was the cycle of the blooming buck eye. So yes, it can be something that's connected to expression in the ecology around us but it could also be oh that that was the cycle of initiation or that was my cycle of radiance you know if there's a theme that wants to come forward almost like a chapter in a book that the cycles in our life can become these chapters and I feel like that's a way of turning the Gregorian calendar to not be have our time sort of named basically through the

empire and emperors. Many of the names of the months, right, are referencing emperors or just referencing numbers and accounting system that's, I mean, the calendars used to just be a total mess and figuring out how does time even work. And then they became standard. They became standardized through, you know, through this Gregorian calendar, which became a tool of empire, really. Yes.

to many places that may still have a traditional relationship with time as an expression of nature and cycles and spiritual practices. But the Gregorian calendar comes in and wipes all that out and makes it seem like time isn't a part of nature. Time as an expression of nature. Yeah. Yeah. Then practices that we have with lunar tracking that go along with. that beyond just the metaphor of the seeds, what did come to fruition? Was there something,

you know, this last cycle, I had been wanting to see a particular art exhibit. The show is called What Stans Behind the Flowers. And it's the work of Hilma Offclint. And I thought it was at the MoMA. I live in the Bay Area in California. I thought it was in the MoMA in San Francisco. So I was like, yay, I'm going to see this show. And then I looked and it was actually in New York. And I was like, well, that makes things a little more tricky. But for this last cycle, there was this feeling of really wanting to shift perspective and be in a new environment, just kind of, I think, in the daily life of carpools and routines and meal. making with children for my kids and just being a part of the ongoing seemingly never-ending

tasks on the home front. I was like, I would love to see this show and to go and see this art. And so I flew with my youngest child to New York and had this beautiful, wonderful adventure. And so this last cycle for me is that a celebration of the artistic spirit. and so in reflecting of that something that came to fruition that I have been wanting in some form for some time and not knowing what form it took would take and then there was an opportunity that presented itself and it all really happened easefully rather than I think at other times I would try to force something to happen I there's working with with lunar tracking and circular time and cycle awareness

there's more of a refinement around not forcing. I'm so glad you got that. I felt so sad when you said, I thought it was in San Francisco. It was in New York. I thought, oh, she didn't get to see it. I'm so glad that you did. I know.

We found a way and it seemed completely, it would not have seemed like within possibilities. In many ways, it didn't make sense at all, but it was able to come together really easily. And I was going to go by myself and, you know, bringing my, my 12-year-old and to share that with one of my kids rather than feeling like, oh, I need to get away from my duties as a mother and, like, that this is a separate thing, which there is a time for retreat from that. But actually to be able to share that, it just felt really special. April, if people are loving what they're hearing, what's the best way to connect with you and your work and your calendar? Yeah, there's a couple ways. And one is I just started a substack last year. And so I share about the moon and flowers. And there's a bunch of articles that are that are there just to get a feel for orienting to all the connections of the layers of the things we've talked about of the cycles within cycles and ourselves as an expression of nature and this pulse. So the substack is,

between the moon, and that is also the podcast that is hosted there. So the podcast can be found on any of the platforms between the moon. And then my website, The Moon is My Calendar, all one word, the moon is my calendar.com. You can sign up for the mailing list. There's the 2026 journals. This is independently published, and I print here in the United States on really wonderful paper, all the things. And it is supported through all of the wonderful people who have been a part of this journey. Yeah. And there is a, like I mentioned, a course that's, it's called the Foundations of Lunar Tracking. And it gives really just bite-sized videos with the example of the journal, different ways to use it, different ideas. It's not prescribed. It doesn't have certain prompts

that you follow along with, it really is more for somebody who wants a structure that is open-ended to bring your own practice into that. And the course gives it self-paced. And it gives some ideas for getting started. And for people who've been practicing menstrual cycle awareness or lunar tracking, there's also some ideas about like creating moon mandala's and bringing creativity and color and color coding into the practice. It has, it's practical and also inspirational. Well, April, I have relished this conversation and particularly your rebellion against the ideas we hold around time

and this, yeah, transmission of circular time and lunar time. You know, I did a cycle check-in in a team meeting with the Red School team earlier And I said, on this day 28, I really, I can, I feel like I'm in an ocean and the surface of the ocean is very turbulent. There's lots of weather and lots of boats and lots of activity. And I just want to dive deep down into the ocean to where it's dark and quiet and rest for a while. And I really feel like you've taken me down. I was going to say outside of time, but more inside of time. Inside of time, like you said, as an expression of nature.

And I'm so grateful to you for that. And for what a gift, this is going to be to our listeners as well. So thank you so much. Yeah. Well, thank you for showing up in the day 28 space of what can often feel like this space of like pre-cognition of like what even in language. Exactly. Like say this word and it means something and that place of kind of dissolving of sometimes feeling like I'm just this puddle. that has no form or whatever it might be.

So thank you for bringing in that space of that kind of slowing down in that and being with the mystery and not always having words to describe that. Well, thank you for slowing me down. And I hope you have a beautiful rest of your day. And I look forward to tracking alongside you for many years to come. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you, April. Thanks for listening today. I hope this conversation helps you to cultivate a deeper connection to the moon, whatever that looks like for you. And if you know a moon lover that would enjoy this conversation, please do forward it onto them.

Okay, just before we complete here, a final invitation to Red So, Red So, School's annual free New Year Retreat, which is coming up on Wednesday, the 14th of January. It's called your menstrual cycle, your Oracle, and you can register for free at red school. dot net forward slash Oracle. Okay, that's it for this week. I'll be with you again on the other side with you again in January, actually on January the 1st with a special bonus episode, a power card reading to start your year. So that's coming up on January 1st. Until then, I hope you have a beautiful holiday time and keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.