The Menstruality Podcast - 237. How to Practice Cycle Awareness After Menopause (Alexandra and Sjanie)

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

The Menstruality podcast is devoted to restoring cyclical intelligence at the heart of our world, and we center our conversation on the menstrual cycle as a teacher, guide and ally in this quest. But what do you do if you encounter this work after you’ve been through menopause and no longer have a menstrual cycle? We receive many questions from post-menopause women and folks in our community who are curious about how to practice cycle awareness, such as; what cycles should I track now? Should I track with the moon, and how do I do that? And importantly, what do I do with the regret, grief and anger I feel at missing out on menstrual cycle awareness earlier? So, in today’s conversation, we weave stories from some of the post-menopause women in the Red School community with Alexandra’s personal experience from many years of tracking with the lunar cycle to share practical guidance and inspiration for how you can bring cyclical wisdom into your life in your third act. We explore:What to do when you feel grief and / or rage about not having had access to the wisdom and power of the menstrual cycle during your menstruating years. How to work with the lunar cycle phases to recover menstrual cycle wisdom and embody it, and especially how the new moon can give you permission to rest when you no longer bleed.The ‘quiet medicine’ of post-menopause cycle awareness, and how it can support your healing processes and repair work, particularly trauma healing. ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the menstruality podcast where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexander and Sharny, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, change makers and creatives to explore how you, can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, thanks for tuning in today. I hope you're doing well. So as you may know, the menstruality podcast is devoted to restoring cyclical intelligence back at the heart of our world.

And we center our conversation on the menstrual cycle as a teacher and a guide and an ally in this quest. But what do you do if you do? you encounter this work after you've been through menopause and you no longer have a menstrual cycle. We receive questions all the time from postmenopause women and folks in our community who are curious about how to practice cycle awareness. They ask things like, what cycles should I track now? Should I track with the moon and how do I do that? And importantly, what do I do with the regret, grief and anger I feel at missing out on menstrual cycle awareness earlier in life? So in today's with Alexander and Shani. We weave stories from some of the postmenopause women in the

Red School community with Alexandra's personal experience for many, many years of tracking with the Lunar Cycle to share practical guidance and inspiration for how you can bring cyclical wisdom into your life in your third act. Good morning, Alexandra and Shani. Good morning. We've got a big conversation to have today. But we'll start as we always do with a cycle. or check-in. And I can kick us off. It's day seven for me. And I feel like, I feel like one of the fruits of this podcast for me is I've learned how to be with inner spring. It's like just the beginning of the inner spring of my cycle. And I'm also in the spring of a big creative process. And spring is edgy for me. But I can feel rising energy, determination, and focus and

forward momentum that feels good rather than anxiety inducing, which it's, I mean, it's still a bit anxiety-inducing, but I'm, yeah, I'm learning new things. I'm learning new things. How about you two? Where are you at? Well, I'll follow because I'm day nine, so I'm paving the way for you in the, in the spring. You're riding in my slipstream, Sophie. Maybe that's why it's feeling good. You're like the speedboat and I'm like on the jet, not jet ski. What's it called? Water, what's it called? Oh, water skis. Yes, I'm on water skis behind you. Yeah, nice. Yeah, it's good, good to have company in the spring. I am actually feeling very sociable and there are layers to my experience. I'm very present to the complexity of my cycle experience these days, you know, as I'm in, well, nearly 50 now. So deep into the autumn of my menstruating years. And on one hand, I'm feeling this kind of bubbliness and a huge amount of joy being with, the two of you in this conversation.

I was just noticing when we were talking before we started, I happy I feel to be doing this with you. The lovely kind of bubbly energy and a lot of energy in my body. And I can feel this depth of sensitivity and rawness and tears are very close. I've already cried multiple times today. You know, it doesn't, it's not, doesn't take much. and, you know, I am feeling things very, very deeply and with a lot. You know, there's a lot that I'm holding in my awareness and I'm in present to.

Yeah, I make it sound quite tiring, hey, it is sometimes. But I'm hearing that softness. It's like the tears that are coming there's like you're given to something. That's what I'm hearing. That's it, actually. And that is a huge part of my. intention these days with cycle awareness is just how to surrender more deeply to the place I'm in and all that I'm with. Yeah, so that's that's the name of the game these days. And how about you,

Alexandra? Moon is waning. It's about day 20. And today, just overall, I'm feeling quite well. It's nice. It's good. And this was always the sweet spot for me in the menstrual cycle. And it is echoed with the moon cycle. I feel more steady and focused. I mean, that full moon and beltane number, it's like having a rocket, you know, just in a force field, like the force field of a rocket taking off. You know, you're held in this.

even as I was feeling a bit sort of, you know, my energy wasn't so fantastic, but it was in this force field, it was huge. And I'm out of that force field, which I'm very grateful for because I can actually sort of feel myself and sort of drop back into myself a bit. It was not unpleasant. It was good and it was charged and out there. But I am more comfortable, you know, in this more dropped in. place and I feel so much more potent here. I can feel the potency of this phase of the cycle.

And of course it is, it's my life phase, you know, well, I'm probably coming towards late autumn or something. I don't know, somewhere. Late autumn of post-minable's life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Autumn, mid-late.

Yeah. It's, you know. Gosh, are the two of us. us in this little tunnel. I've only just sort of clocked that, Alexandra. I know, exactly. I wonder we're so feisty. Yes. I like this energy. And actually, you're bubbly, you two bubbling away today. I mean, it's very infectious. But my nervous system is getting a bit over-excited. And I'm going to go, I've got to keep coming back to what's really this lovely true steadiness that's there in me. It feels true.

and steady. Isn't that cycle awareness right there? Because the world will try and take us off in all kinds of directions and then cycle awareness just keeps quietly bringing us back to ourselves and how we actually are. Yes, exactly. And I always love hearing about your lunar cycle experience, Alexandra, and it's something we're going to go into in more depth in our conversation today because we're going to be talking about cycle awareness in post-menopause life. You know, this podcast is it's a conversation with the community gathered around this work. We get questions all the time and we're always listening to the kind of conversations that are going on in the community. And thank you listeners. Those of you that are listening now, thank you so much for being

part of this community and for, you know, bringing your presence here and your questions if you do. And one of the one of the things that we often hear from women and folks post-menopause is how angry they feel and how much grief they feel actually if they haven't had access to this practice of mental cycle awareness and this body of knowledge around living cyclically, you know, it hurts. And it's one of the things that we want, like, one of the reasons why we wanted to have this conversation is to speak to that and, you know, to get into, okay, what do you do if you discover this work and you don't have a menstrual cycle anymore? Like, is it, is it even possible to practice cycle awareness and what happens when you when you do so that's our our topic for today so yeah it feels

like a really the best place to start really is to say to someone listening who is feeling grief or anger it's the outrage of not having had access to this information and what would you say to someone who's feeling that way and i'd say that's a really healthy response because you have been cheated, actually, of something very profound and meaningful. And, you know, I think a lot of, especially those who are in menopause right now and feeling, and that anger can be atomic in menopause. I've always felt this, that it is an utter indignation of our souls, at not having the knowledge that we were being inducted into the consciousness

that we were being inducted into month after month. And now here at menopause, that door is, you know, it looks like that door is just closing. And that knowledge is there to prepare you for menopause. So they're landing at this awesome initiation of menopause. It is an extraordinary awakening process, not equipped, not equipped. And I think anger is a bloody good response to that. And also because menopause is such an awakening, you are seeing through things.

You're seeing through everything in society. So you've got a whole lot of anger now suddenly at what you put up with in life. that, you know, suddenly you're thinking, no, and a rage that's partly with yourself, but also kind of rage at the world. So it's a great mix of things. But so it is a deep grief, yeah, a huge grief in our souls that is expressed as anger.

And that is a right response, I want to say, that's speaking to the integrity of someone's being. Yeah, and I think, Even if we weren't consciously aware of the power of our menstrual cycles and the power of this knowledge, when we come to the place of menopause or postmenopause and hear about it, the enormity of anger that we feel, I think, is in direct proportion to the part of us that is ancient and that knows this is the most extraordinary power. and the most extraordinary knowledge to be inducted into through the practice of cycle awareness.

I mean, we, because of all the stories we hear of people who are practicing cycle awareness and, you know, stories, Sophie, that make me cry so often. I'm so touched when I hear about how impactful menstrual cycle awareness is in people's lives. in such profound ways. Yeah, and, you know, I think we all know that. I think we all know that whether we've had the chance to learn it and live it or not. So, yeah, that outrage is a part of us that really recognises and feels that utter betrayal that this has been, yeah, suppressed.

I'd ignored. Yes. It came up, didn't it? Because you reached out to the community to ask for stories about cycle awareness in post-menopause life. And a couple of people shared about this grief and anger. Mariska, for example, said, all my life I've been criticizing myself and actually have been criticized by others for not being consistent and not having a steady amount of energy, thinking I did something wrong. I do feel regret that I didn't know about this earlier in my life and I missed out on so much. It's hard to let go of that feeling because it's that subtle and not so subtle gaslighting that we experience as cyclical beings in a world that wants us to be the same. Aid has stopped asking me to be consistent. That's a win.

Finally, after nine years. And then Amelia said, discovering MCA after the comes with a deep grief and sadness which I think is important to lean into, accept and make friends with. I know my life could have been very different if mental cycle awareness had been in my conscious awareness earlier. Discovering MCA after the event was a deep lessening grief. It's enabled me to learn more about grief and loss than I was previously able to. Recognizing and accepting the via negativa as the inseparable other half of the cycle has made feelings of grief accessible and healing possible. Beautiful.

And we are going to speak later to the healing that happens, that can become available when we practice cycle awareness. Yes. And then maybe a good place to start to go into now is to talk about the importance of restoring cyclical consciousness in a big picture way. Like, why do we need to restore this cyclical consciousness in us and in the world? Massive question, which we could have a whole podcast about it.

you could walk. I know. I suddenly feel rather nervous. You want me to go out. You want me to answer that. Life is cyclical. Everything is cyclical. It's extraordinary.

Even our financial markets are cyclical. I mean, you know, nature, everything, our beings. You know, we are cyclical in all sorts of ways. ways. And cyclicity is about sustainability. It is the most inherently intelligent system, system in inverted commerce, for keeping us in the flow of life, for keeping life flowing, for keeping life evolving, and for keeping on, you know, renewing our energy. Because if we just, if we just go linear, we burn out. We burn, and we are burning out, and we are burning the planet out.

So it is an incredible, it's an inherent wisdom that's built into life in our beings in all sorts of ways. And we, you know, we willfully ignore it, thinking that it's better to just keep doing and consuming, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so, yes. And what's so extraordinary about the menstrual cycle is that not only does it really give you this intimate holding your hand training in cycle awareness and in daring to trust cycle awareness because the only snag about snicles. The only snag about snicles.

I'm going to be on a corpse now Let's all just corpus together for a bit I didn't know I can't just learn that term Corpcing means when you're like on a film set and you can't stop laughing I didn't know it had to be on a form set It happens to me at funerals

Usually the most inappropriate situation I mean Charlie and I have done it In the most inappropriate Really embarrassing So yes, cycles. The only difficulty with cycles is there is, along with the lovely expansion and rise in energy, there is this drawing in of energy of coming inwards. And, you know, cycles embody both life and death.

And it's this, the second half of the cycle is this, you know, contraction, this energy. pulling us in and that is the bit that undoes us because of course we want to be a so much of our substance of being our identity and meaning comes from this doingness you know an agency and i mean it's a fabulous energy that agency energy that first half of the cycle energy i really love it um but but you know there really is a but it's going to destroy you if that's all you have and we and we think of the sort of latter stages of the cycle as kind of dead time and that's why of course you know we have such a negative thing around getting older because we see that as becoming less relevant less useful and that's a separate conversation we'll have another

time let's have that conversation though let's actually do it because we say it all the time That's another conversation we should have. Let's definitely have that one. We will definitely have one because it's a really big one and it's one I feel very fiercely, obviously, because I'm 73 and feeling it, you know, I'm feeling the cultural stuff around this and what it takes to meet that.

So, yes, we've got to entertain the shadow. And, you know, we don't go, oh, whoopee. However, if you learn, when you've got your menstrual cycle, you've got this, it relentlessly comes round every month, very clearly. And as you learn to work with that cycle, you discover all the gifts and jewels that lie lurking in the second half of the cycle. And the potency and the power that is inherent in that time that is just not being valued and utilized. I mean, it's where wisdom is ultimately burst from learning to weather that. second half of the cycle.

So it gives us a much more complete sense of ourselves. So our menstrual cycles are really teaching us about learning to how, it's teaching us how to trust. We're learning how to trust the whole complete cycle process. We're learning to trust not the death part, the dying part, as well as the birthing and coming into being part, the sort of flower. part. We're learning to trust it all and it creates a much more complete sense of ourselves. And what it does, of course, it brings us into deeper relationality with others.

Do you know what it does? It's opening our hearts over and over again. Yes. Agency hard. At that first half of the cycle, if that's all you've got, ultimately it deadens and hardens. And the second half of the cycle, keeps our hearts open and it keeps us connected to others. I mean, it's extraordinary. And the menstrual cycle is building all that in you. And it's bringing you. I mean, you've got this huge spiritual awakening at menstruation.

It's bringing you into who you are. You get this blessing of yourself. You get this affirmation. You get this gift of knowing what you're about. You're calling in this life, what you're here for. I mean, it's extraordinary. the jewels and gifts that are lying within menstrual cycle awareness. And no wonder there is so much anger at grief at discovering this.

Yeah, that piece you said there, Alexandra, I was feeling very strongly when you asked the question, Sophie, about why we need to restore cyclical awareness. And, you know, in a culture that is so head-heavy, so mind-led, I love the way you described that, Alexandra. what we're doing is we're recalibrating ourselves and our in our overculture as one that is able to really come into contact with a complete sense of ourselves so that we know how to use that word really weather, weather life. And it's in that weathering that we are more

more in our hearts, more in our humanity. And then suddenly our experience of ourselves in the world is one that's relational, rather than one that's, you know, we're trying to manage or control or transactional. Transactional, exactly. We're suddenly in a relational experience of life. And that's, you know, for my money, that's where harmony gets restored between human and nature. and human and human and, you know, human and so on is because we're now suddenly in relationship with life.

So the implications of restoring cyclical consciousness feel, you know, to me, well, it feels profound, but it also feels urgent, you know, yeah, really, really urgent. Yes. Okay, beautiful. I always love hearing you to speak about the power of, the menstrual cycle and how it can change things on our on our on our on our beautiful planet um and so for those listening that are like okay great get it and I'm postmenopause how can someone in postmenopause life begin to recover this knowledge yes sophie how do we do it well

the first thing I want to say is just actually reading our book wild power is the best starting place just to get the story, the overall story. And my hunch is, as you're reading the book, you're actually going to remember things about your own menstrual cycle experience. And this is actually, and reading the book will help to give you some context within which to understand the experience you did have. Because of course you were having a menstrual cycle all that time, unless, of course, you were on the pill for extended periods. You would have been having a cycle, and you would be remembering some of it,

and you may have had very difficult cycles, and then reading our book will help to give understanding, perhaps more perspective on why that was happening, and that can actually just feel medicinal in and of itself. But you may have also had a really good relationship with your cycle and actually quite enjoyed it and enjoyed bleeding, and how bloody great that that was just there for you. And our teachings may just add a layer of knowledge and information

that just sort of fills out your experience more or just kind of enriches it more. I hope it does, you know. There's also something about reading about the three maps that we describe of the menstrual cycle. We talk about them as being our spiritual architecture or inner architecture. And reading about those maps and learning,

about those maps will give you the information that you need to sort of understand the archetypal patterns that are at play and the different layers at which they're operating. And that information is really useful. It's almost like having a skeleton then to hang your experience on and a framing that you can then begin to, it's like a lens actually that you can begin to look at your experience through and also look at your experience of your current, the cycles that you are connected to now through. So it really helps with orientating. And I think that's really, really important, along with actually going back and listening to our other podcast episodes about the menstrual cycle. I know people who are no longer have a menstrual cycle might skip over those and think they

aren't relevant, but listening to them will be giving you insight and understanding about how these cycles are operating in your life now. It's a really, really helpful thing to do. As Alexandra shares in this conversation, Red School's cycle power course can be a really helpful way to recover the power of the menstrual cycle, as well as give you a meaningful source of holding and guidance and support to begin or go deeper with your cycle tracking practice with the moon in post-menopause life. It has six modules with online teachings, guided sessions and inner seasons practices which can become lifelong tools that can help to activate the power of cycle awareness. You also receive two bonuses, a menstrual cycle awareness

e-book and an inner season's meditation. And you can find out more about cycle power and how to join at redschool.net forward slash cycle power. That's redschool.net forward slash cycle power. The way that we have sort of developed to support those, you know, who are now just discovering this post-their cycling years, is to work imaginily, I mean, working imaginably within the context of charting with the lunar cycle. Now, not everybody is really interested in, you know, working with the most, moon. And really, if you're not feeling called to that, don't bother. But if you really want,

if you're feeling like, yeah, I really do want to, to recover something here, we recommend using the moon cycle, which is, you know, 28, 29 days, so it kind of nicely mirrors the menstrual cycle and to bring quite a disciplined approach to it for a while, to start to just really, a very specific attunement and then working imaginably with our exercises and processes. So for instance, you know, you might do the cycle power course, which inducts you into the powers of each phase of the cycle and the limits and boundaries and challenges and gifts of each phase. And you could do that course within the context of the lunar cycle. So day one of the new moon, is day one of the cycle.

And the full moon is, you know, the ovulatory moment, if you like. And so you're charting your experience of herself within the context of that. Now, it's not going to have the kind of the depth of illumination that your menstrual cycle gives you, because your menstrual cycle is inside your body. and this is more impersonal. However, the moon is very powerful and its effect on us. I mean, you know, governing the fluids within our bodies.

It was pretty amazing. And we've lived with it for so long. Yes. We're animals. Yes. And our animal body, but we used to live by the moon. The moon guided us. It was such a huge presence in our life.

So it's in us, deep. You're so right in that sense. It's in our sort of psyches, isn't it? Yeah. And collective psyche. Yes, and our collective psyche. That's really beautiful what you say there. So what you're doing is first and foremost,

so you just note, you know, New Moon, day one, and you just notice how you're doing today. You know, what's your, and just all the instructions we give for a cycle check-in. And, you know, we do these cycle-check-in sessions, actually, which would be good to join. We're not running any at the moment. where you just tune into your energy,

your, just the state of your energy, you know, do I have much energy today? What's my nervous system like? You know, am I feeling kind of soothed and chilled or am I feeling all a bit jazzed up and pressured and pushed? And how am I feeling? What are the feelings going through? And all you're doing is you're not trying to mirror what should happen,

you know, like what happens at menstruation. You are just noticing who you are, day. That's all. Each day, you just note the day of the moon and just noticing your condition, your energy pattern, your mood and so on. And do this for a period of time. And then you may start to notice for a few moon cycles. So you start to notice a pattern forming. And you may notice pattern forming with your energy and so on. And I'm actually really in this moment reminded of Amelia's story.

This is before she knew about cycle awareness. And she used to occasionally experience these huge depressions, which will kind of take her out a bit. Have you got that quote there? Yeah, I have. She says, ultimately,

I believe menstrual cycle awareness is a portal to recovery and healing and therefore a bigger, fuller, richer life. Lacking a monthly bleed, I very quickly tapped into the cycle of the moon and recognised that this is a very physical and visceral for me. I was able to recognise how my mood and energy shifts as the moon wanes and waxes. During the dark moon, I noticed a real shift which I previously would have perhaps called a depression. I remembered some, shall I go into more, do you? Yeah, yeah.

I remembered some significant dates over the past few years where I just hadn't been able to attend due to feelings of intense low mood, a friend's 50th, for example. a planned work with friends, a wedding of some other friends. I looked these dates up in retrospect, some of them years before, and lo and behold, discovered that each date was the day before a new moon. This was so powerful and enabled me to reframe my understanding of myself. As not someone who struggled with large social events, or had really low moods occasionally,

but in fact someone who is affected by the energy of the moon. I mean, as you're reading that, Sophie, I feel just this emotion arise in me. It's just so moving that, you know, just such an appreciation of how energies change. And that low, so that is, you know, that we call that the void moment just before bleeding. And just before the dark, you know,

that's the dark moon just before the new moon. And that's the point where your energies might be lowest. and where you feel most intensely inside yourself and just feeling a bit separate from the world. And within the context of cycle awareness, cyclical consciousness, you understand this place is meaningful. It's packed with meaning. It's packed with actually, I think it's the most powerful place

in the whole cycle. That's my experience. And it just takes on a whole different. hue and that then it's like you anoint your being with a different message. So she was sort of anointing herself with, oh, I'm depressed and, you know, there's something perhaps wrong with me or whatever. Yeah, I love the way you said that, Alexandra, because that was the thing I was really struck by when you were reading the story, Sophie, is, and this is part of the value of reading about the powers that are available in different places in the menstrual cycle and

learning about them on our courses as well is because when you have that knowledge of like, oh, this is a place of power and these are the powers that are available, suddenly the experience you're having, as you just said there so beautifully, Alexandra, takes on a whole new hue. And it's, it almost allows us to drop the shame and self-judgment and self-judgment and self-criticism and actually land in the power of the place that we're in. And that's, you know, the impact of that is huge to go from feeling so wrong to suddenly feeling so profoundly connected to something in yourself and in the world like that. Wow.

That is such a beautiful story. It's also making me realize how, you know, we talk about this practice's cycle awareness, which both indicates that, you know, it's about bringing one's awareness to the cycle, in this case the moon cycle, but also that when we do this over time, and you spoke about this, Alexandra, and that's what happened with Amelia, over time, it expands our awareness of the cycle that we're paying attention to. So you might start of not noticing very much in relation to the memory. moon. But as you show up and do it and notice and track your experience over time, and I've

definitely seen this with you, Alexandra, it'll be so interesting to talk about your experience. You know, in the years that I've known you, your awareness of your experience of the moon cycle has become stronger and deeper, which might have something to do with age, but I'm sure it has something to do with the ongoing attention that you've been giving to it as well. So like you build it over time, right? Yes, very much so. And now, as you get older, you become more and more wide open and liminal and permeable. And what having the moon cycle for me is a way of holding me in a container, you know, just to manage my energy because I am very liminal these days. I can be quite, you know, out there. And so, so, so if we're

Anyone who listening, if you sort of imagine that void place we've been describing, that's sort of where Alexandra lives 24-7. A certain groundlessness, you know, gets stronger and stronger. And it's a bit unnerving sometimes. And you feel like, and one of two people made this comment, shared it with me actually, you feel like you're charting cosmic cycles. Thank you, Stephanie, and thank you, Zoe. Yes, this idea that you're charting.

cosmic cycles. I do feel like, you know, my psyche is way out there. And what the charting with the lunar cycle really holds me in a rhythm of self-care. And this is the point I want to make, because of course the menstrual cycle is this fantastic rhythm of self-care. And all roads always lead back to self-care. Well, whatever you're doing in life, if your self-care goes out the window, you're in trouble. And so you've got this, you know, lovely repeating rhythm. when you have the menstrual cycle that holds you and keeps reminding you, you know, about the importance of rest, you know, a time to take your foot off the break, the time to actually start putting your foot on the brake a bit, you know,

pacing your energy, you know, it's just shifting all the time. And your cycle trains you in how to ride your energy, your nervous system in a way that really is sustainable and really does support you to get on and do and live. manifest what you want to in the world. Well, post menopause, none of that is there. And it's like suddenly you're trying to, you're out, you're out in this bigger, wider consciousness now, but you've got no kind of map, you know, how do, uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.

Uh-oh. And people, you know, post-menopause initially often are a bit bereft without their cycles. I mean, you're going through menopause, it's like, eke, what do I do? I don't have my cycling. Gosh. Can I just say, I remember that very well when I got pregnant, the bereftness of suddenly not having that monthly cycle to hold me.

Wow. It's very real, especially when you've been relying on it. Yeah, sorry, go on now, Alexandra. Well, that's the thing. You've actually got to, you've got to experience that. It's not about the moment your menstrual cycle goes, start charging with the lunar cycle. Actually, you do have to actually real feel and go, whoa, whoa, okay, okay.

So it brings you into a new kind of presence and consciousness with yourself. You're not leaning on that. You are having to grow up and be much more conscious and aware. And I mean, there's a whole kind of initiatory thing going on there that you've got to bear and be with to have to get the gifts of menopause. That's so good what you're saying. Sorry, I just have to emphasize that because the menstrual science. does hold us. You know, we talk about it sometimes as the great holding. And yeah, the experience of suddenly being without a cycle is us learning to stabilize in ourselves without this embodied holding

of the menstrual cycle. So I love the way you name that. And that's part of a bigger cycle that we're then pacing, you know, navigating cyclical, embodied, you know, menstrual cycle life into post-menopause life where we don't have a cycle. And yeah, and so that's a process then of landing in that new consciousness. So go on. Go on, go on. Let's hear it. So when you come out of menopause, I mean, you do, you're in a kind of new spring.

It's like your second spring. It's called that, literally. you're stepping into, and that has a kind of momentum. And what I think I'm really trying to say here is this, you are actually deeply schooled in cyclical consciousness if you've been doing menstrual cycle awareness. So that when you are in post-menopause country, yes, you're a little bit like, whoa, okay.

But actually, you've got an implicit understanding of things. And we are going to do another podcast on this one, the kind of cycles you are again. negotiating. But one of the things, coming back to this self-care piece, which I feel is important, is by consciously bringing in the lunar cycle as a means of holding yourself, you may not think of that immediately because there is a certain kind of energy, initial energy you have post-menopause.

But I think as you're getting older, you may find actually it is, really important to have that that holding of the lunar cycle. I found that. So it's really only perhaps in my 60s and now in my 70s, my 70s now, it's utterly vital and utterly fascinating, I have to say. But one of the things is, I've heard post-menopausement saying is they don't have a reason to rest anymore. And so, you know, so they kind of, they don't have this discipline of self-care anymore.

Because they, you know, menstruation gave them a reason to rest. And so I think, you know, Jesus, this is bonkers thinking that. Because rest, you can rest any old time you like, folks. I'm just saying you don't need a reason to rest. However, working with the lunar cycle does hold you in something. It kind of holds you because the dark moon is the sort of archetypal time for chilling. You know, that would be the archetypal moment for resting. So the lunar cycle, working with your lunar cycle, and employing our teachings on the menstrual cycle,

schools you in this cyclical consciousness sort of template. You sort of start to, it is actually, it's implicit in you, but because you haven't consciously worked with it, It's not explicit in a sense. So by working with the lunar cycle, it's like bringing it to life. I'm thinking of water, rain coming in the desert, and there's all this life waiting. And the moment it rains, boom, you know, the flower burst out, frogs appear and all sorts of extraordinary things happen. It's amazing, just when the water comes. So your attention to the lunar cycle and really starting to tend to the energy and pacing of who you are

with the reminder, the lunar cycle holding the reminders of the type of energies that might be going on that you have to pace. It's like adding water and bringing to life the life of the template of cyclical consciousness, within you if I'm making sense. It's restoring something. It's bringing, it's enlivening that knowledge inside of you. And that, with that knowledge, you can then really start to appreciate the bigger cycles that you're riding post-menopause. You've got a navigation, you're restoring a navigation system for yourself for all the different energies.

that you are embodied in postmenopause. Yeah. It's really exciting hearing you talk, Alexandra, about how you practice cycle awareness without a menstrual cycle. I personally feel excited because I think you're paving the way for this practice that I've been so deeply embodied in for most of my menstruating life and alluding to the significant,

of sustaining that practice ongoingly, not just the significance, like the necessity of sustaining that practice ongoingly for navigating post-menopause life and the process of aging and the expansion of consciousness that I understand happens in eldership. And, you know, the other piece is, and I'm thinking particularly of people who come to this work without having practice menstrual cycle awareness, both as a practicing cycle awareness, both as a self-care practice in the way you've described, but also, you know, we've been talking about recovery, also that practicing cycle awareness post-menopause can really support this recovery and healing process. You know, we're working retrospectively with those

parts of ourselves, both that have not had this knowledge, but also the parts of us that have experienced trauma, developmental trauma, other life trauma, and so on, that there is a possibility for profound healing and integration that can happen when we practice cycle awareness post-menopause. And we've heard a number of stories about that. So it would be really lovely to speak to that a little bit more. Absolutely, yes. I mean, as I am listening to you, the phrase that's coming to mind for me is it's like a quiet medicine. And I noticed that in myself, you know, as I chart with the lunar cycle and clock those sort of life stages in me.

You know, especially like, you know, so if you were talking about your spring self, and my spring self was, she was a tender, vulnerable being. And it's interesting when I'm chatting with the lunar cycle and really just pacing that expanded energy, I can feel how, in doing it very consciously, I am really, I can feel a kind of quiet medicine at work with creating more sort of soothing and integration with that younger self within me

that lives within me. You know when we did that inner spring podcast and I suddenly fell into the hole of my sort of traumatized inner self and I brought that out in the podcast. It's very interesting. It's still, you know, there's a vulnerability

there in that phase. And so as I am just really pacing that energy, it's just a very subtle, quiet thing within myself. There isn't any. doingness with it, except this attention and presence to it. And it's a marvellous kind of quiet medicine of healing. And it really, Noah's story speaks to this so perfectly.

So Nora is in her 60s and came to this work, you know, only discovered it in her 60s. And she's actually now on. on our leadership program and working very deeply with the cycle map, with our three maps actually. She speaks about the chambers of menstruation. She calls them the five rooms of meditation and then the four seasons.

And then of course there's our other map, the two Vos, the expansion current and the contraction current. But she, I think we should, shall I just read her story around this? Because it's a lovely example of her discovering a sort of wounded place and bringing attention to it and having a friend witness her that really shifted something. So each time I enter my inner winter and she's working with the lunar.

So this would be, you know, dark moon, new moon. I have an opportunity to move through my menopause again because of menopause, you're moving through those five phases and process what still remains as a pain. About a month ago, during the inner winter of the new moon, I decided to set out with a certain initiative and I felt and I felt fear and loneliness. It is a feeling I recognized as accompanying me every time I bring something into the world, you know, that birthing moment of something. And then, so she said through the five rooms meditation, that's our five chambers of medistration, meditation that we guide people in. So she went through an imaginal process and the four seasons imaginable process we have.

And then especially, because she then had a mentoring session with her mentor, Penny, I was able to identify this exact place, this edge I hit with, you know, bringing something into the world. I'm just adding something here. The point where I need to leave the inner winter, the place of the vision, where there's insight and a loving embrace. Oh, yes. And then bring it into the world. Bring me, the fullness of me,

and not leaving that behind and going into a performance, but bringing it also the vision of what I'm wanting to manifest into the world. recovering this wounded place led me to ask a friend for support to help me to cross that threshold. I mean, I've got to cry reading that. And wonderfully, the initiative succeeded beyond what I had expected. This is just, she's doing such subtle, loving, attentive work and having a witness. it's such exquisite work so it looks so kind of

I want to say almost inconsequential just you know just this attention and so on but I love that the 1% something producing something really well it wasn't 1% I mean it was profound what she did but it you know to our normal everyday kind of lives Yeah. But bringing that presence of intimacy and care and something could repair and something then was released in her.

Now that's the power of working very consciously with your menstrual cycle to really heal and repair things. There's also this beautiful quote from Sam about her healing process. She says, The postmenopausal act of remothering myself, of rematriation, demanded I gave myself the most radical act of self-care. I needed to mother my younger selves through all their initiations, from menarche, through matressants, postpartum, menopause, and now in Second Spring, I went back into the darkness and found a part, the missing part of

myself, and returned her, giving her a homecoming. And then she says this has had implications for me in my energy in Second Spring, a new life season. This enormous initiation of honouring a big part of my life and recalibrating 57 years of that part being unknown and masked resulted in a deep burnout, which is a very common response. Yeah. Wow. It's so beautiful. I mean,

oh gosh, we've just got so many stories we could share here. Yeah, thank you to everyone who wrote in to share stories are so beautiful. Maybe we can close on

Amelia's final piece, which feels like a wonderful bookend to this conversation. Yeah, it really is, isn't it? Maybe perhaps before we do, we could just round up some next steps, some actions for those who have listened and are thinking, right, okay, I really want

to explore this. Obviously, you mentioned reading wild power and working imaginally with the lunar cycle as you're reading wild power and exploring the inner seasons and the different maps. And then you could go back and listen to many of the different menstruality podcast conversations, but with that lens and there are specific conversations about each inner season as well that could be helpful and then the cycle power course doing that working imaginably with the lunar cycle but with the different like you spoke to earlier Alexander the limitations the boundaries the gifts the powers of each cycle plays yes and and and most importantly that you are practicing

doing a kind of check-in with yourself every day, the act of doing a cycle checking within the context of the lunar cycle. And I just want to again remind you, you're not trying to, you're just noticing how you are. You're not trying

to match what you think you should experience where you are in the cycle. But just how am I today and to just note that and to note the day of the moon, that's all. And to do that for a few moon cycles. I mean, once you get going, you will always have some half an eye on the moon. To do that and start to see your pattern of energy.

And the act of just checking in with yourself every day is you actually just really acknowledging, how's my energy today? what do I need? That's a very good question to ask. And you're there for practicing this lovely self-care. And then something starts, something gets going in you. It's like you open a door within your psyche. You're opening more awareness into yourself.

And more can then start to unfold. So you can do that from today. It's about day 20 of the moon today, folks. So you could just get a chart and write down day 20. It's roughly that. Exactly when they listen to this, it will not be day-twenty. Sorry. Okay, so note where the cycle, the moon is today and just start starting.

And you may just be conscious that it's, you know, getting close to dark moon or, you know, or it's, you know, around full moon territory. But just start wherever you are. But as soon as it's new moon again, day one. The other thing I really want to say is that anyone who discovers this work when they no longer have a menstrual cycle, I really want you to know that you are very, very welcome here at Red School and very welcome in our courses and in our community.

it might seem that this is all about the menstrual cycle, and on some level it is, but those of you who no longer have a menstrual cycle, you really are holding a very important place, I would say, in this community and in the larger arc of menstruality, you know, the span of the seasons of our menstruating years, And it really, I think it's something that's lacking just generally is older women, older people who are caring for cyclical life and holding the sort of anchor to this knowledge

in the world from this postmenopause consciousness place. Because as Alexandra said, you're operating with a different kind of power in post-menopause life and that power is really deeply needed. So I just want to let you know you're welcome and I know on all our programs people really value having this age span and also having the wisdom of those who are post-menopause and it's wonderful. We've got people in their 60s, 70s. Someone just emailed us who's 85 who is... As of the blue. absolutely loving learning about menstruality and menstrual cycle awareness now and listen to the podcast. By the way, if you're listening, we love getting your email.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It was very great. Yeah, look, I would just love to end with some of the words of Amelia again, actually. Yeah, Amelia, I should say, I should just add that, you know, Amelia is a trauma expert, and this is learning about this knowledge, post-menopause, has utterly revolutionized her trauma work. She's an educator in this area.

And, yes, it's just revolutionized it for her. Which is like, yeah, it's so important this work in trauma healing. But let's just finish with her. It was just some words she wrote that just really sum it up. So amazingly, discovering cycle awareness, menstrual cycle awareness after the event has offered me a maturity and an adulthood in inverted commas, which I don't see in many people, even postmenopause.

It makes me better at my work, a better mom, wife, daughter, friend. my life is now richer, deeper, more connected, more magical, and I am eternally grateful. Wow. Thank you, Amelia. And thank you to all of those who took time to respond to my questions and gave such deep moving. Yeah. Or responses. It really has inspired more conversations and we're going to be coming back to some of those stories actually because we've realized there's so much more to say. Yeah, this has been

great. So great. Yeah, really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much, you too. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for being with us today. I always love to hear from you.

If you have any insights or questions that have come up after this episode, you can always get in touch with me at sophyatredschool.net. And if you know someone who would enjoy this episode or benefit from it, please forward it to them. And if you have a moment, it's really helpful for us. If you can leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts, it really helps the podcast to find more people. Okay, thanks again for listening and for being part of the community that's gathered around this conversation.

And I'll be with you again in a couple of weeks' time. And until then, keep living life according to your. own brilliant rhythm.