The Menstruality Podcast - 4. Finding Your Voice, Busting Myths and Coming Home to Yourself in Menopause (Karen Arthur)

Episode Date: October 21, 2021

Karen Arthur lives her life in full colour, and her rebellious spirit is catching. A fashion designer, host of the ground-breaking Menopause Whilst Black Podcast, and a leading voice in the global conversation to rewrite menopause, she busts menopause myths and shares refreshing ideas to manage menopause challenges with a rare kind of honesty, fire and wit. In this episode we explore:How Karen made the bold transition from teacher to fashion designer, moved through depression to creative expression, learned that NO is a complete sentence, and found a new freedom in her voice through menopause.Her powerful work to make menopause diverse, amplify the voices of Black British  women in menopause, and tell a new story of menopause as a pathway home to yourself (rather than something to dread). Why ‘wearing our happy’ is a powerful antidote to menopause challenges, and how it felt to invite Davina McCall into her fashion design studio for the Channel 4 ‘Sex, Myths and the Menopause’ documentary. ---Registration is open for our 2021 Menopause: The Great Awakener is now open. You can check it out here: https://www.redschool.net/menopause---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @red.school Karen Arthur: @thekarenarthurMenopause Whilst Black: @menopausewhilstblack

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders Alexandra and Sharni as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, change makers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the menstruality podcast. Today's episode is with a woman who lives her life in full colour. Karen Arthur is a fashion designer,

she's the host of the groundbreaking Menopause Whilst Black podcast and a leading voice in the global conversation to rewrite menopause. In today's episode she busts menopause myths with this signature rare kind of honesty and fire and wit and humour. We explore how she made a bold transition from teacher to fashion designer, moved through depression to creative expression, learned that no is a complete sentence and found her voice, a new freedom in her voice through her menopause process. We explore her powerful work to make menopause diverse and amplify the voices of black British women in menopause and we explore why we all need to wear our happy and how it felt to invite Davina McCall into her fashion design studio for the channel for menopause documentary

Sex Myths and the Menopause. Karen had a stinking cold for this episode but she still managed to be powerful and clear and radiant and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy talking to her. So Karen, hi, welcome to the Menstruality Podcast and thank you so much for making the time to be with us today. That's okay, hi, how are you? Well we just had a little chat beforehand that we're both feeling a bit rubbish in different ways so we'll see how this conversation goes today. We've got babies crying downstairs and dogs barking and colds and all sorts of things going on. It's all going on here. I've got my tissues next to me. Not because I'm going to burst out crying.

Hopefully we'll be crying with laughter more than we're crying. So Karen, you've been so generous and courageous as well in the way that you've shared your own menopause story with the world. You know, I've really appreciated following you. And as I just said to you, you actually make me look forward to menopause. I'm so grateful. And you've become really, I see a leading voice in this global conversation to rewrite the collective story of menopause you were featured in the channel 4 documentary sex myths and the menopause there's articles about you in Vogue in Red Magazine so exciting and you're the host of the Menopause Whilst Black podcast just to get us started I'd love to hear what inspired you to create the

podcast and start doing this powerful work in the world. I was angry. That's what it was. First of all, I want to apologise to your listeners because I will probably sneeze or sniff at some point because I have a stinking cold. but I thought it was so important to have this conversation. I didn't want to reschedule at all. So I started Menopause Whilst Back podcast, I think the trailer dropped a year ago last week. Oh gosh, it's a difficult one, isn't it? Because I love, I'm going to go off slightly on a tangent. I love that we are all talking about menopause or it feels like everybody is and that menopause awareness month and menopause, world menopause day is a thing. But I also need to recognize

and acknowledge that for many people, many people who go through menopause re-talking about their stories and revisiting their stories can be quite triggering and I think for me there's a double whammy here because when I talk about how I started my menopause whilst black podcast I'm also revisiting trauma around black lives matter and around my people who look like me being killed. So I really want to kind of share that. And also, I guess a little bit honour myself, because I was on a call this morning listening to some black women talking about their own stories. And it's quite upsetting, you know, and everybody has a story to tell and some of them are incredibly you know um poignant and people have left their jobs and people have you know broken up relationships and you know lots of things have happened so I just want to acknowledge that first

but yes I I was at home like most people I was sewing masks as most people who can sew were and George Floyd was murdered and it took over the news and we were a captive audience suddenly the world was awake seemed to be awake to what black folks knew, you know, the police brutality, racism that exists within the world, the world that we live in. And I wondered, I became very quiet first. And then I was thinking about my fellow, you know, black women who are menopausal, who are suffering from going through hot flushes and their own symptoms and suffering in silence at home and how they were also coping with seeing people who look like our husbands our brothers are you know our children being killed and so

i did a video i had a little rant and i asked asked the question, if you Google the word menopause and click images, what do you see? And it landed. People got it, you know, because it was you saw a sea of white women, sad white women, I will say, with their heads in their hands. It didn't represent anybody who looked like me, white or black. And so I started, I guess I opened up a conversation. I didn't intend to start a podcast, but months later, having spoken to more black women, I did a survey that many people answered. And one of the things that came out of findings was that people wanted more. They wanted more information. They wanted to hear more people, black women, talking about their own journeys so that they would be better equipped. And so I just started, really. I mean, I hesitated a lot because I thought I'd need to be an expert. I wanted it to be perfect.

I wanted to, I wanted to, I didn't want to do anybody a disservice. But also I thought somebody else would do it, if I'm honest. I get kind of metaphorically looking over my shoulder and thinking, oh, well, someone else would do this. And they didn't. So I did. That's it. and they didn't so i did i i just thought that you know there's a little bit of imposter syndrome going on there i mean it's it's very common i understand that but i just thought some academic somewhere will have written done a survey on black women but they don't first of all people don't tend to you know

research menopausal women full stop because our hormones are so unreliable and then black women at the bottom of that pile so no one was asking the questions and that's what i found is that so there was research in 2007 from north hamptonshire uh medical service i want to say give it a proper name but I can't think of it right now and they were asking a cohort of 22 BME women why they wanted to find out why black women BME women were less likely to take up HRT and so that was the premise it wasn't necessarily asking them you know about them per se it was why aren't you taking up HRT and only four of those women identified as black British women so when I did

my research or certainly when I started asking questions in the end when I closed it 200 and almost 250 women had filled it in and And it overwhelmingly was, I don't know anything. Where is the information? No one's asked us before. That's it. When I was researching black experiences and menopause for this podcast, I found a couple of, I didn't find the studies themselves, but a couple of references to studies where it shared that there's a lot

going on for black and latina and asian women in menopause like they're more likely to enter menopause earlier and experience more severe symptoms due to socioeconomic factors but and also other stresses including the systemic racism that you were talking about and thank you karen for naming um that there's a re-traumatizing that can happen when black women are asked to talk about these experiences so thank you for naming that and in another study it said that this was in in the UK black and Asian women are harder hit than white women with higher levels of menopausal related conditions like heart disease diabetes and depression which i think

it's there's so many reasons why your podcast is really important but the fact that you're sharing so many stories of black women and black british women too it's um it's wonderful and i'd love to hear how like how has that journey been over this past year i can hear the joy in the conversations that you've had um and the power like what what have you most loved about having these conversations well what I most love about the podcast is it is literally me just chatting to other women that's it's great and I'm still gobsmacked that that's groundbreaking but that seems to be you know such an unusual thing because these are conversations that I knew but I'd been having conversations with my friends a couple of years earlier face to face I'd gathered them around my

kitchen table a few times and I'd said you know what I'm slightly older than my peer group I don't know why that is but I am and um I am going through menopause and I think that you are too let's talk about it. And often it was a me too moment. It was just a relief to be able to share. And we weren't all going through it in the same way. I was having hot flushes. Somebody else would have night sweats. Somebody else had aching joints. You know, there were commonalities, but there are also, you know, differences as well. And that's the message I want to get across. I also think for me, it was about, I have, you know, two women, daughters who are 26 and 31. And I was absolutely determined and am determined that there is no way

that they are going to go through menopause in the same way that I did, completely unprepared. And also with no one who looks like, you know, no one representing them. So I think it's important for everybody to hear stories. So some people say to me, oh, you know, menopause, I was black. Is it, is it just for black women? Well, of course it isn't. That's like, that would be like saying to me, that would be like saying that I could only as a black woman I could only listen to you know I couldn't listen to podcasts like I don't know your podcast or postcards to midlife because it's a white woman that makes absolutely no sense it kind of slightly irritates me but it's for everybody but we can hear the same story

five six seven times and then it will land the eighth time because of a commonality that we hadn't thought of before. So the journey has been wild in that I wasn't expecting it to take off the way it did, but I have had, and I have had met some incredible people online and offline, moved that offline and also heard some incredible stories and learned. My goodness, I've learned so much just about myself, about my own capabilities, but about how resilient women are in general, but how resilient black women are in particular. So, yeah, it's a trip and it's great and I I'm coming to the end of season two uh not been very well so I haven't been able to um quite finish my final episode 11 of season two but that will drop soon and then I'm on to season three do you know what you have lined up for season three?

I mean, it's more of the same amazing wild conversations, hopefully. I think that now that the podcast is becoming known, more and more women will be wanting to get involved, I hope, and want to share their stories, people who are maybe more in the public eye. But I have to say, I would like to have conversations with my daughters who have said yes and i'd like to have a few conversations with some men as well if i'm honest i think um i'd like to widen it you know menopause is a diverse conversation but it affects everyone in one way or another and i do not want to leave men out the equation because they're often we ask we are

supported by men either in our relationships or in our workplace or in some way or another and so whilst I'm excited that menopause is being talked about it's still predominantly around white middle-class women and I want it to be intergenerational and across genders and demographics as well I've learned so much as a younger woman like I mean I'm how old am I I've got no idea I'm 39 gonna be 40 soon and I've got oh yeah I don't have any memory right now because I've got baby brain but I'm I've learned so much from listening to those conversations and I feel you know menopause used to feel like a um something to be a bit afraid of actually are you all right I'm gonna sneeze wait a minute I'm gonna blow my nose I mean hold it you can edit this out or you can keep it yeah no I'm gonna blow my Sorry about that. I could feel it come in and you were mid, you know, mid talking.

And I thought, well, it's going to happen. So let's do it. Right, I'm back. Jo. Oh, my goodness me. I know. God, life. Because we've all been shut away from each other.

So now we're sharing all the germs that we didn't share. This is the thing. Because I'm thinking to myself, how have I got, I've had two colds in two weeks. Like literally. And I'm, I, and this is a really, really a full on week, month in fact, it's a full on month. I'm a black menopausal woman.

So, you know, there's a lot going on for Black History Month and World Menopause Awareness Month. you know there's a lot going on um for black history month and world menopause awareness month i can't afford to be ill but at the same time as if my body is saying go to bed which is exactly what i'm going to do soon then um that's what i need to honor i wish we could just do this podcast from bed well to be fair you don't know where i am no we we could both be in bed right now maybe we are I think I was saying something about how I'm 39 and I used to dread menopause I mean I haven't yeah there is there wasn't much conversation about it but hearing the life and the audacity

and the like vivaciousness and the laughs that you have in your conversations and actually I'm especially thinking right now of the conversation I listened to with you and Amishade from the founder of Black Girls Guide to Surviving Menopause. That was hilarious. It's so funny and I'll link to it in the show notes because it's everyone should listen to this one everyone should listen to your podcast and I'll link I'll link to that that was the one I got cramp in okay really bad cramp oh my god and I just said to her look just carry on talking and I stood up hitting the back of my thighs um yeah and that's a menopause symptom by the way I've learned a lot from you about menopause symptoms

um and well one of the things you were talking about I think that I think this was in her podcast was about how noisy it is out there in the world about menopause like how to deal with menopause what supplements to take what you should be doing and and it can give the impression that menopause menopause or women are just looking for cures you know it's all about the cures and you two were talking about how it's time to have a fuller conversation and I'd love to explore what you think that conversation needs to include well that conversation was a year ago practically like maybe November, and lots of changes, lots has changed since then. Menopause is becoming a brand. Big businesses are sitting up.

And whilst the fact that it's become something that lots of people are talking about and certainly workplaces are talking about, it means that more women are going to be able to access their care. That care is also not fair it's not fairly accessed women from a low income who often are women of color are being left out of this conversation you know if you want to take HRT currently you have to pay for the prescription in England if you don't want to take hrt then how do you access holistic care that isn't a blinking fortune um and the other side to that is if you're not on instagram and

you're not on social media and you're someone who is just you know trying to get by across demographics then how are you going to know all this stuff i do a lot of my chatting yes on podcasts and on instagram and all the rest of it but you can't assume that everybody's accessing that you know um so gosh it needs to be so much broader we need to be listened to the other side of this is you know we haven't talked about this but certainly medical racism we have some things in the news about um about um black women and maternity and how we are you know the what the five times more campaign where we are four or five times more likely to die into you know giving birth you know this is this is around the kind of um information and education that doctors are receiving where, you know, 50% of doctors,

I read this somewhere, I can't link to the actual quote, but 50% of doctors believe that black women have a higher threshold than our white counterparts. And that's absolutely rubbish. and it is totally steeped in medical racism because the modern profession modern medicine is founded on the bodies of you know black indentured slaves so there's a lot to unpack there and and so it makes us understandably sometimes suspicious of going to the doctor. But it also means that when we do get there, we're not believed. So there's a lot to sort out. And that starts with education. But it also it's around having conversations with the people in our lives.

You know, I didn't speak to my mother about menopause women aren't encouraged to speak about our bits sexual health and often we have that whole keep calm and carry on we have that stoic well my mother went through it and she was fine so I can too

it's like we feel we can't get help or that it's a sign of weakness. And, you know, I'm here to tell you it really isn't. So there's lots of different approaches that need to take place. But mostly it's about hearing from everybody. More and more women across the demographics need to hear stories from people that resonate with them. So Karen, you shared a powerful and a really vulnerable post about your mental health challenges and depression that happened for you as you were entering menopause. And you shared it

with a photo of you with this big smile and you say that the photo helped to keep you in denial about depression and but it's important for us to expand this conversation about depression and depression and menopause it doesn't look a specific way could you share a bit about what helped you through that part of your menopause journey because I'm I know there will be women listening who need to hear what you're going to share. Well a lot of my knowledge about my own menopause is in retrospect and hindsight so I was in denial about being depressed because I laughed. And I thought that people who were depressed couldn't laugh.

I thought you walked around feeling sad all the time. And that picture that you're mentioning is a classic example. So I moved into anxiety and depression in autumn 2014. My daughters had both gone to university. It was getting dark. My boiler broke. It was a perfect storm, really. I was very stressed at work. And because I didn't have my girls to fixate on,

not fixate, focus on, sorry, I didn't have any choice but to turn the gaze on myself. And I was forgetting things. I was suffering from brain fog and I had been for a while, but I was in complete denial about that as well because I was scared. I was scared shitless, I'm going to say, because I was worried that if I told anybody that I didn't know what I was doing or I couldn't remember things that I would get demoted or worse sacked and then how would I keep my house how would I pay my bills and also what would I do I'd been teaching by that time for 27 years I didn't know anything else so I was in denial for a long time. I had some time off work.

I was officially diagnosed with anxiety and depression, which gave me something to hold on to. But I also knew that I was having hot flushes, decided it was my new boiler was the problem, opened all the windows. And when the penny did drop, that that was me not you know not my faulty sister eating system and I mentioned it to my doctor she offered me antidepressants because the focus was going back to work for me I just needed to get back to some semblance of normality. I needed to know that I could still be

on my A-game. So although I refused, declined, is a better way of putting it, the antidepressants, I wasn't wholly against them, but I wanted to try other things as well. And in the end, I left my job. And people have asked me, you know, well, if you knew what you know now, would you have advocated for yourself you know what I don't know the culture wasn't to talk about menopause I didn't name it in my risk assessment I didn't talk to anybody at work about it

I talked about anxiety and depression and that was I want to say embarrassing was it embarrassing? yeah it was actually I felt like I was a failure um and I ended up leaving and thinking oh well it's the job the job's the problem and the job wasn't the problem it was just the beginning really you know um so I

went into therapy finally I'd spent years avoiding it and it got to the point where it was like, you know what, Karen, you've got to do something. You owe yourself this. So I went into therapy. And even then I thought it was going to be a quick fix. I thought I'd do six weeks and I'd be fixed. That's not how therapy works, is it? So what else did I do?

I learned mindful meditation. My brother's a buddhist and he recommended john cabot's in hefty book um for catastrophe living catastrophe living which to date i've read half of it's really big but i recommend anyway um you can get it from the library even better because it's expensive um i deepened my yoga practice my training my degree is in performing arts i've always been i taught dance for almost two decades so i've always been someone who did some kind of stretching first thing in the morning but as i had nothing else to do let's face it where was I going all my mates were at work so I had nothing else to do but

meditate and body scan and stretch and go go for walks as long as I could go at a time when I could guarantee that no one I knew would see me you know hair down hood up dark clothes, it was a trip. And during that time, my aunt Monica passed away suddenly. And it's funny about like, I don't know, grief is a weird one. Because this is the other thing that kept me in denial, because I went into superwoman mode, I was the executor for her will and i organized the funeral and i contacted all the uh you know all the relatives and i basically went into gotta do this gotta do that gotta do the other um and so i thought oh i can't have depression i must be better now literally um and then once the funeral was over we'd have the memorial summer came and went my friends went back to work and gradually I went and therapy took hold I would say

um and I got worse before I got better I hate, to use the word worse, I went deeper before I came out, I would say, I just rediscovered my love of dressing, I became bolder, I began to choose clothes deliberately to lift my mood, I chose, you know, clothing that my aunt had worn, because I was missing her. And I started to talk about where you're happy and fashion psychology, you know, six years ago, which is now very much the thing now. And gradually with this, with, you know, becoming silent, allowing the thoughts to come in, getting bored, actually. And this is, I speak from someone in a very privileged position. How many women have that, the opportunity to do that? I was living off my savings. I was making no money at all. I chucked money at therapy i would do it again it was the best gift i ever gave myself and it was hard um

but i i i'm a strong advocate for meditation now and for sitting for for becoming less busy for setting boundaries for saying no not saying yes when you mean no which is really hard I'm in the eldest child so I'm used to we get to a certain age and we're we're in boxes aren't we we're already the person who does this and the person who does that so when we want to break out that that can be very difficult for our family and also for our friends you know but um I highly yeah I highly recommend yeah you know so I did again I did I chucked everything at it, really. I tried lots of things. But I was lucky that I had the space and time to do that. And eventually I decided I worked with a creative business coach to decide what I really wanted out of life. And I decided to curate the next 50 years, if I'm lucky, in a way that suits me and to do things that I love.

And on the whole, that's what I'm doing. When I said any advice, what I meant was, have you got any advice for how to say no to the people you love and that love you? Eyes? You don't make excuses. You know what? Natalie Lu, I don't know whether you know her, she runs Baggage Reclaim. She has just, she runs Baggage Reclaim.

She's writing a book called The Joyful Art of Saying No, or something similar. And there are a few people I follow who, their boundaries are on point. But women are brought up to be people pleasers. We are praised for giving to others and not to ourselves. Giving to ourselves is seen as selfish. But I want people to remember that no is actually a full sentence we are always adding things to sentences that could be much shorter even when it comes to compliments when when someone says to you I like that dress why do we feel the need to tell them where we got it from and that it was in the sale and why did we do that no they didn't ask that or when you know

someone compliments on something we have to turn it into making us ourselves small again boundaries are very similar I used to have a I used to have a practice with some of my girlfriends this was at work actually when I worked for a reforestation charity called Tree Sisters and we decided that when someone gave you a compliment you had to say I know yeah yeah and and notice notice how you feel because often you feel quite bad you know but it's practice you practice it I my suggestions are writing scripts down so that you have something that you always say and you default to that. But it gets better with practice and I don't always do it. I don't always do it. I have to remind myself every now and then that no is a full sentence

and just because you've always done something doesn't mean you have to continue doing it we change our bodies change our minds change so of course we don't always have to do the same thing I wanted to ask um you said you were practicing yoga and I feel like I saw in one of your posts that you recommended Donna Noble yoga just wanted to flag that up as a resource yeah donna noble again someone i met online and then met only recently in person um and she's an advocate she runs curvesome yoga as well she's an advocate for body positivity but not the not the toxic stuff you know that everybody is a yoga body and we assume that to start being fit whether it's yoga whether it's running that we need all the equipment and all the gear and that's not the case if you have a body um then there are lots of ways that you can start yoga i know many yogis donna's one of them um paula hind you can yoga is another one so many

i i can't reel off their names but certainly women who advocate for moving your body breathing deeply we breathe we do not use our breath in the way that serves us best and yoga helps us to do that and helps us to heal and i any advice i would give to people certainly about aging is to stretch stretch our body because the less we move the less we'll be able to move as we get older do you do strength work as well because i know one i bloody do yeah one metaprenopause doctor i was following was really advocating strength training in yeah i mean people assume that strength training means you have to live weights and whilst that is obviously great strength training yoga can be strength training some of those um poses you need to you know have some kind of upper body strength and

lower body strength to be able to do them running is strength training as well it's load-bearing um stuff um uh who's the person on instagram kate roe hampton i want to say fitness um she does a wonderful she does wonderful like early morning and you know insta lives and things like that where you can combine lots of different ways of moving your body but you don't have to stick to one thing basically you have to find an exercise that works for you walking hiking if you can get outside get some daylight in your eyes um that kind of thing these are all you know good for our mind and our body yeah karen you express yourself so vividly in so many ways like the way you speak the way you dress um and in the vogue article i was reading there's this quote from you you said

menopause has gifted me with this voice I didn't know I have. I've always been loud, but not opinionated because I've always acted in a way that I thought I was supposed to act, whether it's for the man I was with or in the workplace. Could you share a bit about how you see this process of your voice being freed up? Well, I suppose it happened by force. You know, one to two major things that happened in my life, I suppose it happened by force you know one to two major things that happened in my life I suppose one is I ended a 20-year relationship that was that was abusive basically um and that was spending and I spent a long time trying to be the person I thought he wanted me to be but that didn't so that was one thing but then I freed myself but then what I did is I threw myself into work because then what I

needed to do was make sure my kids were all right so the next thing was having my what I call a breakthrough which was you know hitting menopause leaving teaching um and going deeper into myself before I came out I mean I know I've mentioned that before but you know sometimes we spend a lot of time ignoring we it's often we know the answers I found that once I got silent the answers come and so I was always supposed to start this podcast so all that time I was looking over my shoulder and second guessing myself and thinking oh somebody else will do it actually it was supposed to be me um I've forgotten the question oh my god I mean you can carry on I could listen to you for days keep going

I was asking you about the freedom in your voice is something that I feel is quite rare I think menopause does that to you you know I think that it it gives you oh you'll have to swear can I swear I want to swear it gives you this this this you know this kind of it gives you an unfuck with gene it's like I don't care what people think about me I'm not interested in dyeing my hair to reveal the true me because

that's rubbish I'm not interested in dressing in a in a way that a certain woman a woman of a certain age should in parentheses dress I'm not interested in appearing sexy whatever that means I couldn't give a monkeys if I'm honest you know and I feel like the wonderful thing about transitioning into this period of my life is that and you know that I'm getting from other menopausal women when I talk to them is that they don't really care I don't care what you think about me if you don't like the way I if you think I look like an explosion in a paint statue which often I do that's cool you know I also think and I think this is more important, is that all that time I was not saying what I really thought, whether it was at

work, in my relationship, or relationships, all that time I thought I worried about what people would think about me, and I wasn't being my true self actually the minute I started to own my vulnerability and speak truthfully to myself and then to other people is when I was happier that's that's made me a lot happier you know that kind of is doing the inner work, isn't it? That sounds really wanky. Sorry, but it's true. It's true. I vowed to be honest with myself first. And that would mean I would be honest with other people. And I don't mean, you know, telling people that their bum looks big in this I don't mean that I mean just not doing things for likes not doing things because I want someone to like me you know not doing things because it's a done thing doing things because because I want to and because it feels right does that make sense it does I was just trying not to talk because there's there was a big

uh police siren or ambulance going past so I was just pausing are you in London are you in I'm not I'm in Sheffield actually you're in Sheffield okay so in London we get a lot of sirens so yeah are you in London right now I'm in southeast London yes but fortunately it's been a little bit quiet you were in Barbados recently, right? Oh, my God, yes. I chose to take a month off, which I've never really done as a holiday. And it took me two weeks of that holiday. And my aunt saying to me, reminding me that I was on holiday before I did actually start to relax.

Because it takes time to relax. There's yeah and even when I got back this is the thing so the first week I got back I did my back in and I developed a cold this is my second cold by the way and um but I felt like I couldn't I had to keep going because I felt guilty for having a month off. So I, in the end, my friend Natalie gave me a good talking to and basically said, it's okay to rest. I need to follow my own advice. Sometimes I'm very good at saying, you know, rest is resistance and make sure that you sleep and make sure you get bored but because I felt guilty about having that time off um I wasn't taking my own advice so yeah and if you add into the fact that we're seeing more people yeah of course I was going to get a cold at some point but yes I had a month in Barbados and I recommend it to anybody I felt safer out

there uh during Covid than I do in Britain and that says everything you need to know really I would love to be in Barbados right now it's hard to rest there isn't it's hard to rest for so many reasons but especially when the work that you're doing you can feel how needed it is in the world. You know, the work you're doing for everyone, and especially for black women, it's so necessary. And for all activists and people who are doing needed work in the world, I think it makes it in a way doubly hard to stop and rest because the guilt comes on really strong. And also people demand things of you people that's when your boundaries you know if you go away or if you decide to take a break that's when your

boundaries go have to go into overdrive because people don't care some people just don't care you know they they want they want what they want and they want it now you know and so you have to be very i want to say strict boundary uh and recognize that in the long run you cannot help anybody if you don't look after yourself first what is it you can't pull from an empty cup yeah i know i know there are lots of women who feel like this, because I've spoken to them, they want to find the kind of freedom that you have, and that you express, but they feel stuck, they feel stuck in their voice, they feel stuck in their lives. Have you got some words for those women who want to, who want to find that freedom, like how they can move through to it oh god no pressure um i would say start start with one thing rebellion is um catching it's contagious sorry

it's addictive i would say so i would say start with one thing, maybe something that involves putting you out of office on on a Sunday that very clearly says to people, you know, that you're you know, you're not answering your emails or. I don't know, crafting something, making sure that you write a script so that the next time somebody asks you to do something that you definitely don't want to do, you're able to say that and reel that off, practicing it in the mirror. It's different for different people, isn't it? And obviously, we all have a different kind of path to how we can live more freely. But certainly, my advice would be similar to my advice around how to wear the clothes that you love and not care about what people think. I always say start small. It's usually a knicker drawer. You know, start by chucking out all the grey ones and the ones with the elastic, you know, falling off and buy something that you love. It's just for you. It isn't to show to your partner that isn't to take a picture

and put on instagram with your stomach pulling you know pulling your stomach in all that kind of stuff it it's it's just for you to make you feel good so i would say start small my out of office is my little rebellion but it's also a reminder to me that i deserve rest. And often people have said, oh my God, I need to do that too. So remember when you start, you inspire somebody else too. It's never just about you, you know. I hope that's helpful.

I don't know. It is helpful, especially about rebellion being contagious. It is. It is. There's that little kind of free song like oh i don't have to do that and it really frees you up you know but um you gotta start somewhere so you may as well start little and build it up yeah alexandra who's one of the co-founders of red

school alexandra and sharni they always talk about doing the 1% because the 1% leads to the 2%, it leads to the 5%. And before you know it, you're an unfuckable with menopause. Absolutely, yes. That's the phrase that I wanted to say. Let's talk about clothes. Let's.

I think my favourite bit about watching you in the Channel 4 documentary, what was that like, by the way? What was it like to be interviewed? It was bonkers. It was out of the blue. Well, they contacted me almost nine months previously because of Where You're Happy.

People assume that, oh, I was on it because of my podcast. But my podcast was only a month old then. I'd only dropped two two episodes and if I'd been asked about it I probably would have flustered myself because I was new to the game so um it was great actually it was fun Davina McCall is hilarious and honest her authenticity really shines through I love that they came to my studio so i was in my comfort zone um and i love to be in part of it because not only because of what's come from that but also the knowledge i gained you know and the connections i made um i also like the fact that although the programme is very heavily HRT biased, understandably, because that information wasn't really out there,

they also used my story around anxiety and depression to talk about menopause because lots of people don't realise that that can be a symptom. So, yeah, I loved it. pause because lots of people don't realize that that is a symptom can be a symptom so um yeah I loved it yeah I was gonna search you my favorite thing about it was that you were in your studio so we all got to be in your studio with you and I just thought I want to be there all the color and you're cutting up these gorgeous bits of cloth and um yeah again so much vibrancy and freedom in that in that space and i know that a lot of people want to make big shifts around menopause or they just feel absolutely compelled to alexandra calls it the burn your house down moment like ending relationships just wanting to walk away into the

sunset for a couple of years or or forever changing jobs and I've heard women describe it as they're actually coming home to themselves by making these big moves but so it was a big shift for you from teaching to fashion design and I'd love to hear a bit about it um I would sorry I've just made a really odd noise it's going to sound really funny um I so I had always sewn my mother taught me to sew when I was 15 so I've always sewn I used to make my own clothes, I made my kids clothes, you know I made home furnishings and then I'd started

a little hobby slash business, I call it a hobby because I wasn't making any money, I wasn't charging enough making bags out of Ankara fabric, African print fabrics vibrant colors and then when I left teaching it all I lost just before that I lost the will to sew I lost all love of you know the joy of fashion and creativity and sitting down at my sewing machine that went out the window

and if I think about it that was the first thing to go um so when I started when you know I started to feel better and we're talking a good maybe another year um I had done an open house in my home and I had decided to make some clothing and it was, you know, my kids were blown away, but people loved it and it sold. And my daughter said, mom, you need to charge more. You need to, you know, get it out there. And I burst into tears. I was like, how, how do you, I didn't know the first thing about marketing, about marketing myself. I wasn't confident. I wasn't confident in my own abilities. I just felt lost. So I contacted a lady who had done my website, as it goes, and it just so happens, this is how the universe works, I suppose, that she had started a creative consultancy agency so I came on board as one of her first clients but I will say I didn't take a lot of notice of her you know when you like

years later there are things she said to me and I will send her a message and go oh my god you told me to do this and I didn't well you, you were right. But it was almost like, because I was doing that alongside therapy. So it was almost like a double whammy because she was so, she, first of all, she was knowledgeable. Also, she kind of held my hand through deciding not to make bags anymore

and recognising that my favourite thing about being creative is the relationships I make with the women I talk to. And so I moved from making bags to sell on my website to making bespoke clothing for women. And those are the conversations because often the women who come to me, the first consultation we we have one of the questions I ask is what do you love about your body my goodness my goodness we can't we can't come up with one thing we always have a list of the things that we don't love and often that's not based in anything you know we are it's upsetting and so my job my my what I do is I create clothing that makes you

feel special makes you stand tall but also the conversations we have when we're doing fittings and in between from the consultation to the final product is about empowering us to feel comfortable and celebrate the body that we're in you know and part of that is wearing clothes that you love and not giving a damn about you know um what other people think i'm i'm putting this on because I like it. I'm wearing, you know, these trainers with this skirt, with this top, because maybe it was something that was given to me. Maybe it belonged to someone I love. Maybe I just love the colour. I don't care if it clashes. I feel great. And that's it. So it becomes less about looking good. Although when you feel good, it kind of, it glows out of your face. I think it does.

You stand a different way when you feel good. But it's a confidence and you have to work at it. I think hearing you talk, there is such medicine in menopause for everybody because this kind of freedom of going deep inside accepting who we are and celebrating it and not taking bullshit being truthful with ourselves and with everyone else isn't that what basically we need everywhere like throughout our whole world to turn it around it's it feels like we've got it so wrong not only are menopausal women invisible she's just crazy we actually need to be turning to the menopausal women to get the wisdom that's needed to turn the crazy tanker of our world around when it comes to um anti-racism work when

it comes to all social justice work when it comes to anti-racism work when it comes to all social justice work when it comes to alleviating hunger and poverty you know there is so much trouble on our earth that we need to resolve and I feel that that the leaders that we need are the menopausal women I would agree I would agree wholeheartedly menopausal women are encouraged to become invisible once you are past your sell-by date, as in you can't have kids and you don't look a certain way, we are encouraged to disappear. But we've been on this planet for the longest. We have the most knowledge and the most experience. Actually, if we are given support, then we absolutely can boss companies, you know, countries, and so on and so forth. I have no intention, clearly, I have no

intention of being invisible. But I would say that this isn't about menopause of women, this is about women. This is about the world. This is about, you know, young women recognizing and preparing themselves and, you know, giving themselves knowledge so that perimenopause and menopause are just another thing you go through. The only reason, one of the main reasons menopause is so difficult is because we enter it blind. So if we, I honestly believe that this is a fantastic time and opportunity to be alive. I'm absolutely welcoming this talk because certainly my girls aren't going to walk blindly into menopause. And I know lots of, you know, other generations, it will be exactly the same. I feel that in maybe even 10 years time, 20 years time,

we'll look back and go, my God, did you have to fight for menopause in the same way that you know suffragettes had to fight to um to vote i think it's a similar thing i think that we man it's it's it's women are incredible and empowering them to do so by talking about uh something that at the end of the day, you know, many of us are going to go through is can only be positive for the world. I would say that sounds quite lofty, but I feel quite strongly about it. I agree. I agree. Not that it's lofty. I agree. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe in closing, what would you say to, and you can do it right now because I am one of these enough to have a relationship with your mother or she's still alive, start those conversations or your aunt or older women, listen to them, ask them

questions, you know, not necessarily, you know, they're not necessarily going to want to have those conversations. Don't assume this, but certainly it's an opportunity to start a conversation about something that has been taboo for far too long and i would also say no i want to say learn your body that's another wanky thing to say what do i mean i mean we often self-medicate we drink and we enjoy ourselves we drink we smoke we do lots of things we don't exercise we stop doing the things that we were told to do and we know are good for us at school once we leave school and i would say that um i've learned a lot about my own diet and my nutrition there is lots of information out there listening to this podcast listening to this podcast, listening to my podcast. Take advantage of the

knowledge that is now out there and don't dismiss it as, oh, that'll happen in, you know, in 10, 20 years time. It's like pensions. You don't need it and then suddenly you do. If you've got the opportunity to find out more,'s the time to do I'm a big fan of intergenerational learning um don't dismiss it as an old woman's thing because it isn't I can't wait for that episode with your daughters yes so I need to set that up actually can't wait for that oh I mean thank you so much Even with a cold and full of snot, you're incredible. Full of snot is the phrase. Absolutely. Goodness me. I hope, I mean, you know, I hope it comes across and it's not too sniffy and snotty. But if you feel that it needs, you know, revisiting, let me know.

And I'm sure we'll be able to sort something out. I mean, I'd love to talk to you again in the future um pick pick up one of the other themes and and go deeper with it I want to ask as we close how people who are listening can connect with you so there's your menopause whilst black podcast so I'll link to that yes your instagram so there's two instagrams because I never do anything by heart do i so there's the karen arthur which i bang on about was merging a bit but it's you know fashion and anything that takes my fancy really um if you google the karen arthur my name comes up that's

quite simple yeah so yeah there's that uh yeah so there's menopause whilst black and there's the karen arthur on instagram i'm the karen arthur on twitter and i'm in and out of facebook yeah so my my weapon of choice shall we say is instagram yeah me too thank you thank you for showing up when you felt like crap everything you you for everything you're doing in the world. I am so grateful for all of us. Thank you so much. Thank you for your patience. And thank you for having me.

Thank you so much for being with us today and listening to the Menstruality Podcast from Red School. Please subscribe and follow wherever you listen to podcasts and it'll really help us to reach more people if you could leave us a review and if you'd like to explore how to activate your unique form of leadership through menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause you can visit menstrualityleadership.com. All right, see you next week. And until then, keep living life by your own brilliant rhythm.