The Menstruality Podcast - 65. Menopause, Leadership and Living a Committed Life (Lynne Twist)

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

In this electrifying conversation, visionary activist and author Lynne Twist tells a new story about the potency and power we can hold in post-menopause life. Lynne shares the story of how, when she was 50, she received a series of visions which profoundly altered the direction of her career - ultimately inspiring her transition from her life work of ending world hunger, to a new calling to steward the health of the rainforests alongside indigenous people. She hadn’t realised, until we did this interview, that she was in menopause at this time and that it was the menopause process that opened her up to receive these visions!In this episode:How, post menopause, we are more relevant than ever before. Lynne loves her 70s, and feels more turned on, more fired up than ever - she’s not retiring, she’s re-firing.Menopause opened Lynne up from her personal mothering journey of her three children to a bigger, global understanding of mothering, serving the great mother, and the founding of the Pachamama Alliance, designed to restore the worlds rainforests by empowering indigenous people that protect them.Menopause opens our capacity to feel, often through deep pain, to prepare ourselves for this next major phase of our lives in post-menopause. Registration will open soon for our 2023 Menstruality Leadership Programme. You can take your seat here: https://www.menstrualityleadership.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolLynne Twist: @soulofmoney - https://www.instagram.com/soulofmoney

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey there, welcome back to the Mentor Reality Podcast. Thank you for tuning in today. This episode is such a treat. It's one of the conversations that Alexandra had for our Wise Power Retreat earlier this year when we were launching our wise power menopause book and it's

with a woman who's had a really profound impact on my life personally visionary activist and author lynn twist it was such a delight to listen to this conversation lynn had some amazing right there in the moment realizations about how her menopause process transformed her expression of her calling in the world moving from ending world hunger to founding the Pachamama Alliance to restore the world's rainforests alongside indigenous peoples it's a fascinating story and I also loved Alexandra's inspiration at Lynn's energy feminine leadership and the kinds of leadership qualities that menopause awakens in us is in real alignment with everything that Alexandra and Shani share on the program. So we've got a webinar coming up about the MLP

and also a special Q&A for people who are approaching menopause or are in menopause or post-menopause about the menstruality leadership program but I'll share more about that later and for now let's get started with menopause leadership and living a committed life with Lynn Twist. Welcome to the Wise Power Retreat where I'm having a series of intimate conversations with people about their menopause experience and what it revealed and liberated in them. This series of conversations is about the power, authority and purpose that menopause awakens in us and what's possible individually and collectively when this rite of passage is supported and dignified. So today I am so delighted to be talking to Lynn Twist. Lynn Twist is a global visionary, author and teacher.

She's an award-winning speaker and has devoted her life to sustainability and economic integrity. She is president and founder of the Soul of Money Institute and co-founder with her husband Bill Twist of the Pachamama Alliance which works to preserve the rainforest by empowering the indigenous people who are its natural custodians lynn has helped organize and fund nobel peace prize laureates and she is the author of a number of books including the soul of money and the soon to be published living a committed life in fact it's being um published on the 18th of October and Lynn this actually so happens to be world menopause day so on track I love hearing that that's just a nice time oh my god nice timing really oh my god oh that's incredible i

didn't know there was a menopause day but now i know and i'm now you know and your book is marking that day and actually i couldn't think of a better book to mark that day and i it is for anybody but it is particularly a book for those post-menopause, because I do think of menopause is a time of awakening, an extraordinary time of awakening. And it really opens us up to a much bigger kind of lens on the world of serving something much bigger in the world. And your book is just the perfect thing to drop in at that moment to guide someone i would love to begin um lynn by i mean you've been an activist all your life but i would love to hear what menopause gave you in this journey of your commitment to life, to serving life on this

planet. I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you experienced what, well, how you experienced menopause and what it gave you, what it gave you. Well, I'm so grateful for this conversation and for you and for your book. So I just want to say that because I did not realize, and I'm going to, you know, just say it right now until, until talking with you now that when I was in menopause, many, many years, I was one of the leaders of something called the Hunger Project. And I traveled the world. I managed fundraising operations in 53 countries. I managed a huge volunteer network, 200,000 people in the United States, 40,000 people in Bangladesh. I mean, I didn't manage all of them, but that was

the structure I was inside of and had a role in. And I thought I would do that for the rest of my life. I'd made a commitment that was very profound for me to end world hunger. And even though I was trying to manage all of that and raise my three kids and, you know, take care of my wonderful husband and, you know, stay alive and well, I just was devoted to the Hunger Project and its work and our work there. And I never thought I'd leave that wonderful organization or that work. But when I was 50 years old, and I have to really look back and say, I think it was in menopause then, I received a series of visions, you might say. Another way of talking about them are dreams. When I was in Guatemala in a very strange and unfamiliar to me shamanic ceremony with my friend John Perkins.

And during this shamanic ceremony, and there was no medicine, it was a wonderful shaman on the top of a mountaintop in Totonicapan, Guatemala, with a big fire in the middle. And we were lying on the ground with our feet towards the fire like a wagon wheel, 12 of us. And this wonderful man, Roberto Poz was his name, very interesting shaman, Mayan shaman. He was drumming and chanting and whistling and told us to journey. And I, it was midnight when we began this ceremony. And I didn't really know what he meant by journey, but I knew closing my eyes was easy because it was midnight and I was tired. So I thought I'd just, a nap. But his drumming and his voice, the singing, he was chanting and singing and whistling. And it was just incredibly mesmerizing and hypnotic.

And I started to feel my body have these all these strange feelings in my right arm started to quiver. And it turned into some sort of a wing like thing that I had to extend. And then my left arm, same thing kind of turned into this kind of weird feels like it felt like a wing thing. And a hard thing started growing on my face it felt like a beak and I felt like I just had to lift myself up and fly I couldn't have laid there for one more second and and then when I did kind of lift my what I thought was my body up into this beautiful starry night I looked down and I saw myself down there, laying there quietly with the other people in the 12 people in this wonderful circle around the fire. And I could see and hear

the shaman, but his voice was as if it was right in my ear. And the whistling and the chanting and the drumming was very present. And so it was so glorious. I started to fly up into the night sky. It was millions of stars. I'm going there right now. And it was just awesome and hypnotic and mesmerizing and freeing and beautiful. And I was flying like this in slow motion. And then I looked down, and it was starting to dawn,

and I saw that I was flying over a vast unending forest of green, extraordinary, glorious rainforest. And so in that same way, I was slowly in slow motion flying with this kind of elegant experience of flying. It just it was just fantastic and blissful I'm there with you now oh my god and then these disembodied faces of men with orange geometric face paint on their faces and yellow red and black feather crowns on their heads disembodied faces of men started floating up through the forest floor through the canopy from the forest floor through the canopy to the bird me calling to me in a strange language and then they would disappear and then they would float up from the forest again and call to the bird and then

they would disappear and I would keep flying and it was sort of like this dance it was so wonderful and and kind of glorious. And then they would show up again. And then they would disappear. And they were clearly communicating to me as the bird. And then there was this loud drumbeat. And I opened my eyes and realized, oh, I'm not a bird. I'm a person.

And I sat up. And the fire was down to embers. And I looked around the fire and it was clear that everybody in the circle had had a strange experience. And the shaman asked us each to share our story. And I shared mine. And at the end, he dismissed everyone but me and my friend John Perkins, because he had had the same vision. And so the two of us and the shaman had a kind of a little moment where the shaman said this was not a vision this was a communication you're being contacted probably by an uncontacted tribal people who's waiting and asking you for contact. And I thought, no kidding, no way, that's cool, but I can't do

that. I'm ending world hunger. I don't know anything about the Amazon. I don't speak Spanish. I've never been to South America. I'm all about Africa and Asia. And I got to go to a meeting in Ghana. I can't even think about this. John, on the other hand, my friend John Perkins, he had been in the Peace Corps in Ecuador 20 years before. He had been working for many, many years with the Shuar people. He knew immediately, he said, Lynn, I know who these people are. I know where they are. They're the Achuar. And they've never had contact with the outside world.

And they're ready for contact. And we must, we must go to them and i said john i can't do that i'm i'm i'm on my way to ghana so he said they won't leave you alone till you come and you wait and see and so i i was discombobulated but i thought this is not my work i'm ending world hunger so i went to ghana and i was in a meeting in Ghana with, sorry, this is so long. I'm almost done. I am so nervous. With eight wonderful Ghanaian people, five men and three women, around an oval table in a hotel called the Novo Hotel in Accra, Ghana.

And I'm sitting there, I'm sitting in on a Hunger Project Ghanaian board meeting. And'm from the global office so I'm just a, I wasn't leading the meeting, I was, you know, I was participating and at a certain time in this meeting the men, the five men, and by the way people in Ghana have almost blue-black skin, it's so dark, they're very, very beautiful people. At a certain point, the men, and just the men, started having orange geometric face paint appear on their black faces. And I was just, I thought, oh my God, no one was saying anything about this. The women weren't, nobody was acknowledging it. Everybody was talking as if this was not happening. So I thought, oh, my God, that weird thing in Guatemala has me hallucinating. I didn't say anything. I just left as we do.

And I went to the ladies room, which is, you know, that's what we do. That's what we do. And I splashed my face with water and tried to, you know, get out of this, whatever this was. It was kind of making me crazy. And I went back in and everybody was still talking and it was a lovely meeting and very productive. And then maybe 10 or 15 minutes in to that second portion, it happened again. And I just burst into tears.

And people asked, even the ones with the orange face paint, what's wrong? And I said, well, I don't really know what it is, but I'm feeling very ill. And I've been in so many countries and so many time zones. I was supposed to stay for five days, but I absolutely know that I'm just too sick to stay. So don't worry. I'm going to go to my room. I'll get a taxi at the airport. I just need to go back to the United States. And they were all worried about me. But I said, you know, you stay here.

Keep doing your meeting. And I went up to my room. I got my suitcase. I went to the airport. This is 1994. 1994, yeah. No internet, no cell phones or anything. So you just went.

And I got on a plane, a plane to Frankfurt, then Frankfurt to New York, New York to San Francisco. And the whole way, the faces kept coming to me over and over and over, whether I had my eyes open or shut. So when I got home, I was just like a maniac. I told my husband Bill a little bit of this story, but I was afraid I was going crazy. So I was kind of embarrassed. So I didn't tell him the way I'm telling you. And then I wanted to reach my friend John Perkins to see if the same thing was happening to him. But

he had gone back to the Amazon. So he was unavailable. But eventually he did come home to a million voicemails, remember voicemail, and a million faxes, remember faxes, and saying, call me, call me, call me, I'm having weird dreams. I can't sleep, you know i need to talk to you and he came back and said right away lynn the achuar are waiting for us we have to go um they're they're asking for first contact which is a huge privilege we have to go and they want 12 people not just the two of us people with global voice people with open hearts

12 people who know the rainforest is critical to the future of life people who know that indigenous people are key to the future of uh understanding the world and people who are open to the wisdom of the shaman and so we picked 10 people i picked my my husband first. And we traveled down to Quito, Ecuador, down the valley of the volcanoes, over the eastern side of the Andes, down the Bastaza River Canyon, and took a small plane into Achuar territory, landed by a dirt landing strip, kind of really just an opening in the forest next to a river. And then the planes flew away, two planes that took us in, little planes. And then 10 minutes in, they came out of the forest with their orange geometric face painting, the yellow and black feather crowns. And that was the beginning of the Pachamama Alliance.

And I tell you that long, long answer to your question because I now realize that I was in menopause I did not know that till this minute and I I I think you'll probably help me understand that when the visions came to me in Guatemala I I was able to receive them, maybe. I don't know. But ever since then, the shamans that we work with in the Amazon, and now I work with Pachamama Alliance, I decided I had to leave the Hunger Project and that this was my new calling.

And it's been the second half of my adult life. I've been doing Pachamama Alliance for 27 years. I did the Hunger Project for 27 years. So I think that I didn't realize though that I was in menopause. So you probably have something to say about this. It's sort of a revelation. I do have one or two things to say. Firstly, I just feel the impact. I mean, I'm just feeling so moved by what you're saying. And I can almost feel tears staring in me for the depth of feeling, the depth of the depth of what you're describing. touching me because it really menopause and menopause is this opening where you are your whole life gets redirected rewired re and and it's like you're on this you're on this path base trotting along thinking yeah i'm doing fine this is great you know sticking all the boxes i'm

happy it's good and then menopause comes along takes it you know throws it all on the ground it all around and then something else comes that is um well out of nowhere almost but of course there are threads and you know all sorts of things going on beforehand but it is it is this sort of almost wonder and the it won't let you go i mean that's what moved me is that once you had sort of made contact with you know i would call the calling but for you it was with these people the actual people um they they stayed with you they were tracking you and i mean my goodness me your hunger project was world work but this seems also seems of another order again well it's i just this, I love talking to you. I can't tell you because I didn't see any of this until now. I was a mother and an active mother all the years of The Hunger Project. I had three

tiny children, you know, babies practically. But when The Hunger Project started, my kids were three, five, and seven. And I had no extra time to work on ending world hunger. I had three little kids, and I was a substitute teacher. I was doing things, but I didn't have a career. And the Hunger Project swept me off my feet, and I thought, how can I do this and mother my kids? But I did for, you know, 25, 26, 27 years. I was in Ethiopia with people after the 1984-1985 famine. But then I left in time to get to Spring Sing and the soccer championship for my daughter and my son. You know, I would catch planes and do anything to get back for that. And then I would be at the UN

making a presentation and I would be thinking, did Bill, my husband Bill, or did the nanny remember it's snack day for third grade? I was actively mothering and ending world hunger and I saw it as part of my mothering too because you know who's who who was and still is suffering from from hunger is is women and children so very very connected to that heartbreaking situation for women who can't feed their own children makes me cry so I felt that I was mothering the world and my own children at the same time. But when I turned 50, now I didn't really see it till now. And my kids were, you know, they were on their own, so to speak. You know, there's a point at which you have to let them go and you don't want to and you want them to be on their own.

But you're holding on and then I I was a very um reluctant to let them go mom like most I think but I wanted them on their own etc you know that that moment where you're kind of ah and then the Pachamama Alliance came along and swept me off my feet and that too was about the the great mother the earth pacha mama that's what pacha mama means uh because i was no longer of childbearing age i was uh i was refiring you know as barbara marx hubbard i'm sure you knew her too she called it regenopause regenopause that's what that is you regenerate yourself to live for your own mission and purpose after you're complete with the responsibility of childbearing. Even if you're not a mother, you have a refiring, a regenopause, a regeneration.

So I just love this conversation. I never saw this before. Well, what I'd love to hear, I mean, was menopause a challenge for you? Or it sounds like you sort of stepped almost fully formed into the Pachamama Alliance. But was there negotiation for you within yourself about changing gear like this? There was. There was. I actually took me, I mean, making it sound like I went from this to that, and I didn't. So that would be misleading.

I resisted with all my might the Pachamama Alliance path because I had made all these commitments to I mean literally hundreds of thousands of people I've been here since the beginning of the Hunger Project I will be here till the end or till the end of my life until we end hunger till the end of my life you can count on me and I said that and I meant it. So when it when the the rainforest work started to call my husband, he answered the call more than I did, because he he was a business guy, but he was kind of done with business. And he became very, very engaged. And I was trying to do the hunger project, and go go to the rainforest and go to Africa and Asia. And it just, I practically killed myself trying to do everything,

which is one of those feminine things that probably everybody can relate to. And then I got very sick. And I also want to say what an incredible gift that was. I got malaria. Now, no one who's had malaria would say it's a gift, but in my case it was because first of all we didn't know it was malaria. It was months before that diagnosis was accurate. I had seven malaria tests before it became clear that I had it because I kept thinking I've got malaria. I felt the way people looked that I'd worked with for years in the Hunger Project.

So anyway, I got really sick. I couldn't even be on a conference call. I couldn't sit up. I was so sick and I wasn't dying. I was just sick and I couldn't do anything for anyone. And I had to be with myself. My kids were gone. You know, they, they weren't taking care of me.

Bill was all about Pachamama Lions. He had to go to back and forth to Ecuador. My Hunger Project colleagues were freaked out that I wasn't there, but they managed, you know, there were many of them. So they, they filled in for me and I was sick for a year, a year. I had my malaria lasted for nine months. And I, there were like three months of regaining my strength. So then when I tried to go back to the hunger project, there wasn't really a spot for me anymore. I mean, there was, they would have welcomed me with open arms. I don't mean to say it about them. It was more like

they had filled in that gap. And I was, first of all, a little bit hurt. And then I was so proud. Oh my God, I have trained all these people and they're totally capable. I can do the Pachamama Alliance. And so I, but it took, but I actually had to, I'm trying to answer your question without another 10 stories. I really had to reframe what it meant to work in the Amazon. And I had a final trip to Ghana. So I'll just tell one more story. Can I do that? Am I taking too long?

You can do that, Lynn. That's how I answer all my questions. I went to Ghana to do one more trip for the Hunger Project. And I was sitting on like a desert with some Ghanaian elders, some old men. There were five of them. And we were having a meeting about the work there. And the men told me, you know, this used to be a rainforest, we were raised in a rainforest. And I looked around myself, and they looked around, and it was absolute desert. And I said,

no way. And they said, yes, when we were children, this was a forest. That's 40 years ago. And they were in their probably 70s and 80s. Often you can't tell in Africa how old people are because they're they're kind of, you know, you just can't tell. I had no idea that they were that old. And then they said it's been gone for 40 years. It was completely decimated by, you know, extractive industries and lumber. And it's been gone for 40 years, but we grew up in a rainforest. I thought, you're kidding. And I didn't know that. And then something started happening for me. I realized I'm still ending world hunger, but I'm moving to the preventive side of it. Oh, yes. Yes. Amazon rainforest goes, there'll be another whole continent like Africa of people suffering, of people not able to feed their families.

And I did a little research and found out that much of Africa, all of Bangladesh, all of India was rainforest. And a lot of the source of the hunger and poverty is that it's all gone. So I started to reframe that, you know, God or the universe was asking me to go to the preventive end of that picture. And so it freed me to have a context, I'll say, because I'm very much into context, generating context and frameworks and paradigms that give you power to see that I would be continuing my work to end hunger but I would be doing it in partnership with indigenous people who would be able to stop that destruction before it took away the very life support system on which they and the rest of us depend so um yes i resisted and took me a long

time to uh to come to terms with what was happening to me if lynn's story is inspiring you to explore your calling what your committed life looks like in this current phase of your life, we invite you to visit menstrualityleadership.com where you can find out more about the world's first leadership training designed for trailblazers, change makers, nurturers and creatives to realise your full authority and leadership through the power of the menstrual cycle. If you'd like to learn more about the program and if now is the time for you to deepen your menstruality journey in this way, we have a free webinar coming up on December the 8th. It's called How to Channel the Powers of Your Menstrualal cycle to step into leadership. There'll be insights about what

menstruality leadership is, a guided journey into the leadership wisdom within your cycle, all the info you need to know about the MLP plus Q&A time with Alexandra and Sharni. And if you're approaching menopause, you're in menopause or you're now post-menopause, Alexandra and Sharni will also be holding a special Q&A call about how to work with these menstruality teachings in this phase of your life. I'm going to drop the link to both of these events in the show notes so you can go to redschool.net forward slash podcast and you'll be able to find the page for this episode and click on the link to join us for one or both of the events that's redschool.net forward slash podcast

once again i just want to really take in your words, Lynne, and pace some of the things you've said here because they're so potent. I'll go back to the illness and having to be with myself and I think of menopause as apps that's the quintessential message of menopause is to come right back into yourself to pull back your energies from the world and all the thing you know pies you got your fingers and to pull it all back and yes will people cope blah blah blah and there is a moment of crisis for all those people as you pull the energy back. But it is. And for you, it was compelled by a life death situation of having malaria. and at menopause what's happening is this incredible alchemy that's going on on the inside that is rewiring you for this larger context and you come out with this realization that you're yes of this new context that is sort of behind the thing that you have been working with

and i'm reminded of something i I was listening to you speak on another podcast, actually. And you spoke about daring to have, you know, big, bold visions. And I feel so strongly about that. And that postmenopause is the time for that you are actually wired for that and not only are you wired for that vision but you're wired to step up to serve it and i mean when i look at you i see someone i mean you're a few years older than me and you are you are my latest role model, let me tell you. Link, bloody do it. I'm going to go bloody do it. It gives me so much inspiration because there you are doing this huge work in the world.

And you are an older, well, we're both older women, but you're older than me. And you're doing massive work. You know, we are trying to ditch this idea that menopause is the end for us and that we become irrelevant. We become ever more relevant, more relevant than we have ever been before. I agree completely. And I love that.

I love being a role model for you. Thank you very much, because it's so helpful to have someone ahead of you in years. It really is. I look for them. It's so fired up. And I have, mine is Jane Goodall. She's 10 years older than I am. I know her and love her. And, you know, if you think about Jane Goodall, She's so not stopping. She, before COVID, was still traveling 300 days a year, seeing her roots and shoots, children all over the world, etc. And I totally agree with you that there's a real joy in this age. I mean, it makes me cry to be in my 70s. I love my 70s. You know, so far, I seem to be totally with it. I know there's people who aren't as lucky as I in terms of their genetics, perhaps, or maybe their health. And my heart goes out to them. And I don't mean to be frivolous about this, but I've been given such a big mission that my life and I've accepted it. And that's what this new book is about, actually. That it's shaped me into someone who demands health and well-being from herself, demands energy, demands taking care of herself, but not for me, for the mission that I serve. Yes.

And that makes it all so worth living for, you know? And so I'm so grateful that I, I don't know if it's my genetics, my mom or my grandmothers that have given me so much strength at this age, but I feel more turned on, more fired up. You know, people say, are you retired? I say, no, I'm refired. I'm refiring. And I don't know how many more years I'll be refired but I feel like I can go another 27 you know

Jane Goodall is setting the marker for us she's awesome and then what's the name of the wonderful woman who was chairman of the Girl Scouts she's so incredible she held that position until she was 103. What's her name? Or Frances Beinecke, was she 96 or something?

I love hearing about people like that. It makes me so happy because I feel like now I'm so free. I don't worry about whether people like me or, you know, I try to do my hair right. But if it's not okay, it's okay with me. You know, I mean, all the stuff that haunts you as a younger woman and, you know, are you thin and what about your waistline and all that? I mean, I cared about that and I still care about it. I don't mean to denigrate beauty. It's a huge part of being a woman, but it doesn't have me. I have it, and I'm in charge of myself. And I am clear that my life is given to me, and so it's mine to give. And that's so exciting and so much fun.

And you have so much freedom and so much joy. And also then you really love so much, and I think this is true for all of us who are women who are listening, how fortunate it is to be a woman. I mean, how great is it to be a woman in today's world where even with the Dobbs decision and the fight over abortion and right to life, and even with, you know, the hashtag Me Too and all the things, that's even exciting, that all of this is being revealed, and that the divine feminine is going to seize the day and make it all come into balance. I'm positive that this is the Sophia century. This is the first century of the third millennium. It is the century when women will take our rightful role in co-equal partnership with men. It is the century when the divine feminine is the answer, the calling to all the big problems we face, the political breakdown, climate crisis, the health to all the big problems we face the political breakdown climate crisis the

health crisis the education crisis the divine feminine is the match for all of that and it's coming through men too um but i'm positive that the divine feminine is it's like menopause for the world where we're coming into this period where it's so clear that heart, forgiveness, commitment, collaboration rather than competition, all the feminine values are what's being called for, what's being demanded, what's being drawn out of us. So what a thrill to be a woman and a postmenopausal woman. I love that phrase, the divine feminine will seize the day. And yes, we are in a great menopause moment in the world right now. You know, we're going through a breakdown to lead to an awakening, a massive awakening of the feminine. I'm absolutely absolutely with you it's such a powerful image

it's such a powerful thing that you're saying and that the divine feminine is coming through all of us through all of us um there is just i want to just also acknowledge um that you know for some that are listening they're thinking yeah but um my my callings are sort of more modest and some or you know because you are very much on the world stage you have a very um big palette that you work with if you like um and i've actually heard you say this and this is something that i feel very strongly too, that there is no small job, that whatever we are called to do, there are a myriad ways that this world needs serving. And we are all called in different ways. And you have been called in a very grand global way and others are called in much more intimate subtle delicate ways within communities within small communities within families and so on and I just really wanted

to name that something that you speak to as well I've heard you say something similar to that, that there is no small calling. Yeah. I think we're living in a time when every human being makes such a difference. And I think that's probably always been true. But now it's so clear to me, you know, the choices we make, each of us, impact the future of life for the next 1,000 years. That's become very clear now. Yes. And, and that ennobles your life that that makes your life ever more meaningful. It doesn't, it's not a burden. It's a it's a it's an ennoblement of life itself. And I'm thinking of people who are who are, let's say caregivers to an elderly person, a person more elderly than

they are, or a teacher or someone who actually is having an interim job waiting tables. Or maybe that's their calling to wait tables in a way that really transforms people's experience of being served. Any job, any assignment this lifetime for your soul and your body is the opportunity to make a difference for all humanity. That's what Buckminster Fuller taught me, one of my greatest teachers. Every little individual makes a difference that impacts all of humanity. And I didn't know that before I met him, but it's true. And I'm thinking of when my mother died, one of the things that she asked me to do before she died was have at her funeral the delivery person from the pharmacy who brought the drug she needed for cancer to her home because they formed a little bond. It was a young man, the lady at the cleaners, who every time my mother went in to pick up her cleaning, this woman was so cheerful, it would shift my mom's day.

The woman who waited on her at her favorite restaurant was her favorite waitress. She asked me to call her and let her know that Mrs. Tenney had passed away and that she wanted her at the funeral. And that really made a huge difference to me. I put all this in my first book, The Soul of Money, about what my mom wanted at her funeral. She wanted these, her manicurist. So when we had the funeral, memorial service, the family sat in the front row rightfully so but these people who had become her family the manicurist the delivery person the waitress the person at the cleaners they sat in the second row right behind the family because they knew her very very well and they and she loved them

and they loved her and the way they did their job touched her heart impacted her life and gave her final years uh a family you know that that was really important to her so i i say that was my mom's great teaching before she died and it made me it makes me um happy to tell you that but but it also, I also want to say that if you're a kindergarten teacher and you know, you're not just putting up with these kids for another year and doing the best you can with them, but you know that they will remember you for their whole lives. I remember very well, my kindergarten teacher, everybody probably. The first teacher you had in school. And what, who she was impacted me. And I'm suggesting that no matter who you are, and no matter what your life assignment or even your temporary assignment is,

you make a significant difference. And if you hold it in the context of having a purpose larger than your own life, that you're going to make a difference as a kindergarten teacher, maybe you're going to do it for two years. Those two classes of 22 kids in the first year and 18 kids in the second year are never going to forget the things that you taught them, the way you not bent over to talk to them, but got down to their level and spoke so that your face and their face were just equal, so that they could see how much you respected them at age five. You know, these are things that seem tiny, but they come from living a purpose larger than yourself. They come from purpose knowing that your life can matter and that you matter and that you can matter in a way that inspires, uplifts, and contributes to

every other human being who crosses your path. Yes. And that's true for everybody at any age of life, stage of life. You've said it's just so powerful. And then I think of menopause and how it's that on steroids. Yes. Really. It's so, I think of menopause as so, it's so not about me anymore. Yes.

About my own ego, getting that out of the way. So that one is this clearer channel for whatever one is doing. It's just, you know, for whatever you're doing, it just seems to expand the lens and get rid of you at some level. Yes, exactly. And get rid of the arguments too because of menopause because you're going through menopause you will argue now and but actually

you get you get beyond that and there's just no argument it's just what you have to do and it's like what's the next assignment okay that's the next assignment that's you just receive it and you're kind of you're in communion with something. It's just talking to you. Right. It makes it clear that we're not in charge. Yeah, we're not in charge. There's something really working us. I'd love, we've got about five minutes or so,

or four minutes or so left, Lynn, and I'd love it if, you know, from your perspective now, and I think of, because there are many going through menopause who are really struggling today. And I feel actually part of that struggle is reflecting the huge struggle that the planet is growing, you know, that the world is going through, that there's some sort of mirroring there, that there is an intensifying of experience and some are really struggling and they're not resourced. You know, they're just, and that's a really huge part

of going through menopause well, is actually having resources, support, and people that believe in you and hold you and so on. But I'm wondering if there are any words that you can share or speak to those who maybe are in the depths of something now and not really certain of where they're going or you know what just you know in the of things um from your perspective where you stand now if there's anything that comes to mind that you would like to speak. Well, first of all, my heart goes out to people

who are having a painful passage now, a depressing passage, a dark passage with menopause. And mine wasn't like that. So I really, maybe it was because I was so engaged in the world, but I don't know, I was fortunate. But I must say, there's something that's so powerful about suffering. And one of the things that I've learned in my life, because I moved towards suffering, I learned that from Mother Teresa, that I, rather than being repelled by suffering, I move towards it. And most women do actually.

But I'll just say in my deepest heart, I know that when we have periods of depression or suffering or pain or hurt, it deepens who we are. It really does. It deepens your soul. It deepens your capacity to feel. It is working you in a way that hurts, yes. Just the way childbirth hurts, yes. When you're giving birth, it hurts. But in a way, menopause is giving birth, another form of giving birth, giving birth to the next level of who you are and deepening your capacity to feel pain, be empathetic, and ultimately experience joy. Because pain and joy are one there there's all in the same continuum and the deeper the pain the more capacity for joy the deeper the suffering also the more capacity for love I've seen that over and over again in my own life and in other people so the the menopausal passage deepens, I think, our capacity to feel and our capacity to love for the major chapter of our life, which I'm in, so that's why I say it's major.

The post-menopausal period, because what the world wants from us is our grandmother wisdom, our love, and our presence, our deep and profound presence, our profound listening. And you get that from deepening your own soul. And often deepening your own soul requires suffering, requires pain, requires even what I call, you know, not lightly, the horror of depression, but you will come out of it. And your capacity to feel and your capacity for joy will be 10, 20, 30 times what it was before you went through that passage. Lynn, for that is just so beautiful, what you've spoken and I'm especially touched by just the power of our presence in the world and our listening and it opening our capacity for the presence and the listening for love it's beautiful hmm really beautiful Lynn I'm incredibly grateful for this conversation I feel I have been fueled tanked up your passion and your commitment and your love and your generosity because i know you're incredibly

busy and you are incredibly generous with your time you're just totally there in service and it is a complete inspiration and it has actually personally really filled me up this conversation with you. I want to really acknowledge your latest book, which I think is a perfect companion with our new book. Wisefire, yours is really the perfect thing. This living a committed life, and it is a life that is committed to something bigger than yourself and it is also that the word committed is very important and that act of commitment you really wake up something as you write about it so beautifully it's a wonderful book it's very

very readable and you you have wonderful stories in it as well, which I was loving reading. So I just want to really celebrate your book that's coming out on October the 18th. And to deeply thank you for our wonderful, wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. I loved it myself. I had so many revelations right here, right now. I'm so grateful to you, Alexandra, and good luck on your book. And thank you so much for this conversation. I'll never

forget it. And how lucky we are, really. How fortunate, how blessed, really. Not luck. I don't know about luck, but blessings are definitely abundant. And even at a time of enormous crisis the deep gratitude I have for you the work you do and that you have that you're empowering and supporting and teaching women that this is the best time of life so thank you so much wow what a conversation two incredibly powerful women i'm so inspired i'd love to hear how it was for you what you think let me know sophie at redschool.net and i'd also love to reiterate our invitation to our upcoming free webinar on December the 8th how to channel the powers of your menstrual cycle to step into leadership if you want to hear more about our menstruality leadership program or simply understand how you can work with your menstrual cycle to get to know your calling and to express it more in your life

and if you're approaching menopause or you're currently in your menopause transition or your post-menopause, Alexandra and Sharni are going to be holding a free Q&A call on December the 6th about how you can work with the menstruality teachings in this phase of your life. So I'm going to drop links to both events into the show notes for this episode. So you can find the show notes at redschool.net forward slash podcast and we every really warmly welcome you to join us for one or both of those events. OK, that's it for this week. We'll be back next week with another episode.

And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.