The Menstruality Podcast - 88. How to Grow an Intuitive, Cyclical Business - Sophie’s Story (Sjanie & Sophie)

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

How has your intimacy with your cycle (or your menopause process) changed you, and your life? It’s an important question to ask, in quiet moments, perhaps in your inner winter. Cycle awareness offers many fruits, and they can easily be missed in a linear world that rarely—if ever—shines a spotlight on your cyclicity and what it is awakening in you.On the podcast today, the tables are turned as Sjanie asks our host, Sophie this question and they explore what menstrual cycle awareness has taught Sophie over the past decade, particularly when it comes to living her calling and creating things of beauty in the world. They explore:The wild night of pre-menstrual rage that changed everything for Sophie; her career, her country of residence and her relationship. What late night breast-feeding dreaming taught Sophie about how to run a thriving, sustainable, impactful business.Why we all need to connect more to the 99.9% of life on earth that is cyclical, rather than the 0.01% of human culture that is largely made up of linear, productivity obsessed cultures. ---Join us for a free webinar on May 25th: How Your Menstrual Cycle Can help you to Create a Thriving Business - www.yourcyclicalbusiness.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardy

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey there, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening today. How's it going for you today? I'm feeling nervous because in this episode we flipped the tables and Sharni is actually interviewing me and as you may know or might have figured out by now,

I'm much more comfortable being the one in control asking the questions. But I really care about this topic so I was really excited to get into it with Sharni. As you'll hear in the episode I've been lucky to be involved in many different businesses, projects, non-profits and I think it's so important for the big-hearted visionary people of the world to be able to be supported as they live their calling through their businesses. It's why I created Your Cyclical Business which is the Red School course that is coming up next month and which Sharni and I chat about later on and I'll also tell you about a free webinar that I'm hosting later this month

but for now here we go. Over to you, Sharni. All right, Sophie Jane, whether I like it or not, I have got to kick this one off, don't I? Because I am sitting in your seat and you're sitting in my seat today. I am the new hostess of the Menstruality Podcast, everybody. Today is my day to wear this gorgeous robe. And I'm feeling so freaking excited, Sophie Jane, because I'm going to get to talk to you about all kinds of things like how you discovered cycle awareness, your vast and incredible work career and the businesses that you've been involved in and all kinds of other things. Who knows where this conversation is going to go?

But finally, I get to ask the questions, which I'm really, really happy about. and all kinds of other things who knows where this conversation is going to go but finally I get to ask the questions which I'm really really happy about so how are you doing you can you can get your sweet revenge now for all of those nitty gritty deep dark difficult questions I've asked you oh yes oh yes oh god I'm loaded I'm okay you know you know it's not my happy place being on this side of the mic i've got to tell you and it's really interesting actually because it's coincided with day seven and anyone that's been listening to the podcast will know that i'm in a real process with this pre-ovulation in the spring part of the cycle where it really brings me face to face with my vulnerabilities my sensitivity my anxiety nervousness so I've got a fair amount of you

know churny churny stomach and like fluttering in my chest and I know now because in a spring is working me out that if I breathe then that can become excitement which is really what it is because this is what I love I've always inexplicably just bloody loved marketing and business even even ever since I was a child like I was remembering the other day that I used to make little Fimo models like plasticine baked plasticine models of animals and sell them on my mum's stalls at her craft fairs because she's an artist so at the age of 10 I was like how can I how can I like take something and make it beautiful and sell it and make a business and so yeah this is what I love and having a cycle aware approach to it is what makes sense of it and me and this passion and

so yeah I'm nervous and excited I think yeah and I can feel the um tenderness in you Sophie Jane and it kind of makes me want to lean in a little bit closer and almost you know I want to be sitting alongside you and holding your hand it's a very endearing thing to feel you in this place I find and I love how you're working with your inner spring because I can feel you've got increasing compassion with yourself in this place and yeah it's gorgeous it's really really gorgeous it's a good thing I didn't do my cycle check-in first because I feel I may have trampled on you. Because I'm day 20 and I feel like I have a very vast, deep, raging river pouring through me. And by raging, I don't mean angry. I mean just rolling, like full of momentum and energy pouring through me and by raging I don't mean angry I mean just rolling like full of momentum and energy

pouring through me and my body is so tingly alive my heart is really warm but there's this enormous charge in my system and it's strong. You know, I feel raw. And I was thinking I like to play this game with myself when I do little cycle check-ins with myself. I like to ask myself the question, like, if I could do anything right now, you know, with this energy, with how I feel, what would I do? And this morning the thought that came to me was, if I could do anything right now,

I would be in a carpool karaoke with all my friends. You would be in the car you know putting all my heart and passion and energy into music in good company like that's what I feel like doing today I'll see you there in a week do you know what I feel like doing with you I'm reminiscing on the times that we've spent in fields at festivals in the sun with you giving me a foot rub because you give the best foot rubs like that's if we could be having this conversation but we're in a field and you're giving me a foot rub I'm that's my perfect situation right now okay let's make that real that sounds so good no it's amazing talking to you and um

just how i know how deeply inside cycle awareness you are this is how you live and breathe and move through the world and it informs everything you do and of course that hasn't always been true like most of us you didn't grow up with this knowledge um you spent quite a few years um locked outside of this um but obviously still at the mercy of your cycle which is what happens when we aren't um in the know with our cycle we we tend to be in a kind of destructive or unconscious relationship with it which is often not good but I didn't think you've ever had a chance to tell the story and I'm imagining people listening would love to hear you know how when did you discover cycle awareness and how did you discover cycle awareness

I think when it really kicked in was in my late 20s and this was when I really started cultivating intimacy with my cycle I had been tracking my cycle you know to not get pregnant but what actually brought me to the deep practice of true menstrual cycle awareness was my inner autumn and I think it's this way for so many people so I began to notice that there was a cyclicity to the outbursts of rage and grief and depression and anxiety that I would feel. I think I'd say that I began to notice that there was some kind of rhythm. And I think that took me into some research online around menstrual cycles or a friend recommended, I'm not sure, but somehow Alexandra's book, The Women's Quest.

The workbook, yeah. The 13-month workbook guide. What a genius creation that is. Yeah. Amazing. So that landed in my life and I took this 13-month journey with my cycle and the inner critic was really like the headline of the journey that I took. You know, when I turned onto the inner critic page, there was just light bulb, light bulb, light bulb, right. Okay. There's a, there's a powerful force in me that is communicating with me through this rage, through this constant questioning,

that something is wrong with my life you know and it I've talked about this in a couple of other interviews but it's funny because basically what my critic was saying was you're doing the wrong job you're living in the wrong country and you're in the wrong relationship consistently every month every day about day 23 or 24 am I getting anything right critic and you know and I was I was in a relationship with a wonderful man but he really wasn't the right man we were supposed to be soul friends we were in a filmmaking partnership we were making wonderful things you know I was flying to Hawaii and going and living at Findhorn and doing all these incredible

things to do these awesome film projects but it wasn't what it wasn't what I wanted to do but you know until you've found the thing that you want to do you don't know that everything else isn't the thing that yeah and gosh so this is so interesting because what you're saying is on some level, everything was good. It was actually okay. Like on paper, it was all ticking all the boxes. And yet your critic kept turning up every month with this discerning knowing that this isn't it. Yeah. Okay.

So, I mean, that's quite unsettling. I'm curious to know um what you did with that awareness it's so easy to tell this story in hindsight and say yeah so then I moved country I got divorced I started a new career it's great now you know but that that journey which really took a year from the decision of I am going to trust that there is wisdom in here for me. And Edwige Fairchild, who we both know and who was, I'll speak about later. She gave me this wonderful analogy. She was coaching me at the time.

And she said, Soph, sometimes you've got to let go of one trapeze before you can catch the next and while you're flying through the air in between those trapezes it just feels like free fall yeah and it did you know it did um I was living in Seattle I moved back to the UK I was working as a filmmaker and really a film producer I was on the kind of business and marketing marketing side there too and I moved to work for Tree Sisters the reforestation organization and I decided to recreate this relationship with the wonderful Ward Serrell who I love to this day and it was a really beautiful um parting and then I moved back to live in my friend's basement in in the UK yeah

with like well critic you better have been bloody right because I've been listening yeah wow and I'm imagining Sophie that it was something to do with the fact that that kept that knowing kept coming back to you every month and you also spoke about the rage um which no doubt got your attention like there was some deep part of you that was wanting out and so yeah you knew something and even as you were in free fall it sounds like there was a part of you that was trusting yeah I had made the decision to trust it reminds me of when Alexandra speaks about when she had really intense menstrual pain and she made the decision to trust her body I have this one memory of one premenstrual night where it was absolutely pouring it down with rain and I

was so angry I can't remember exactly what I was angry about but I was furious and I was shouting at Ward and I felt that he wasn't understanding me and listening to me and so I ran outside in the pouring rain and I was literally clawing the earth with my hands and I think people listening many people listening will understand the extent of this premenstrual rage and despair of I know there is something for me there's something I'm not being met I'm not being seen something isn't happening and I needed to just get in there with the earth and the there was sort of mascara streaming down my face and I'm absolutely drenched and that was the only place where I felt met and seen and like I felt myself it feels important to share these moments because

so many of us feel mad in the premenstruum you know it's the story we hear all the time isn't it at red school there's something wrong with me I'm mad I've lost it and there was a kind of madness in that moment but there was also such a sanity and a wisdom because the way we are living is crazy and disconnected and I was sensing that there was a different deeper kind of plugging in which I am experiencing in my life now so like she ain't half a drama queen being a critic but like that was enough you know it was the Oscar winning performance there lowering the earth but it was real and I couldn't not listen you know when it's that intense you can't not take action on it yeah that's the gift of that premenstrual intensity is it can't be ignored it is so seizing and all-consuming and you know what you describe is kind of animalistic you know your mind doesn't get what's going on but you you deeply know you know and that

just carries you through something and i mean i know the story continues so you let go of one trapeze you free fell across the ocean towards the united kingdom back home to your motherland, which I know you love deeply and you have a very, very deep connection with Sheffield and the land around you. And you were working for Tree Sisters. So you already, just knowing what I know about you, I can feel the deep alignment in that because of the values you hold and how deeply you care for the earth and nature. You did some amazing things at Tree Sisters. Tell us about your time at Tree Sisters. Well, one of the most amazing pieces, which is obviously really relevant for our conversation, is that thanks to Edwige, who was our operations director at the time, we put the menstrual cycle at the heart of the organization, which is happening more and more in our world now.

But what this was eight or 10 years ago. Yeah, Tree Sisters were one of the first organizations we knew of to do this. It was so radical. Yeah. So we started our meetings with cycle check-ins. We were encouraged to plan our work around our cycles. I mean, there was only four or five of us. We were just making this up as we went along.

The whole thing we just made up. I like working in teams and organizations of about that size because there's so much freedom yeah and we were also planning the organization in a seasonal way so we would vision in winter dream and put things together in spring take action in summer and then harvest with a big campaign every autumn and I really believe that it was this menstrual cycle focus and all over cyclical focus that allowed us to go from planting what 4,000 trees a month at the beginning with this wonderful devoted group of of donors to launching our million trees campaign and by the time I left I think we were planting three million trees a year and now it's many many millions a year and they're doing wonderful things

wow I've got goosebumps particularly because of how you framed the role that cycle awareness and just that overall holding of rhythm yeah really allowed the organization to prosper and flourish in um in a whole new way that is really inspiring yeah and I've got to say to like to bring my inner autumn back in here because she was still loud you know she still had a lot to say I'm saying she you know I just kind of had this image of my pre-menstrual wise badass quite angry self and she was still showing up and one of the ways that we worked with my pre-menstrual energy in the organization is we decided to give my day 23 woman a name because she kept coming up and causing trouble in meetings so I we had this code name that I would say grumpy Gertrude is here today gg for short big g's here and then

everyone would know well what they'd know is because we were respectful of it is okay Sophie's likely going to be crunchy but she's also going to be delivering some good truth today so let's like hold her and give her space and let's listen so there was this profound respect that we joked because you have to have you know yeah yeah we were doing difficult things and we had to have fun but it was it was real and then we all took menstrual rest you know we all had a day of menstrual rest to dream for ourselves and for the organization it was yeah it was wonderful I love how they were taking your autumnal self seriously um I can't help but observe Sophie that that has something

to do with how you took your autumnal self seriously in those years leading up to that it so um often starts with us kind of claiming the dignity of that part of ourselves and then you know others others can can join us in it that's really so cool and i know you were so i mean the the cyclical awareness and you were part of an amazing team of tree sisters, I know. But you were really instrumental in that Million Trees campaign and in really making a phenomenal impact in the world through that. I mean, that was your marketing genius. As a filmmaker, I had raised a lot of money through crowdfunding for film projects so I'd learned that if you can really root into a

vision and gather people around it they want to contribute they want to be part of something beautiful so I said why don't we do a crowdfunding campaign and we didn't have the time and the space to really do it but we managed to pull it off and that sort of catalyzed this core group of people who were just willing to put everything into Tree Sisters like we all were and I think that was one of the forces and then yes we I do feel like the plan for that million trees campaign was one of the best things I've done and I'm proud of it for sure yeah I think it's so impressive so impressive I remember I mean I don't think I'd met you then but I remember I was um a devoted tree sisters um donor and I remember that campaign And I remember how it stirred me.

And I remember the magnetism and how compelling it was. And yeah, I think this is another thing to say about cycle awareness, is that when people and when an organization is practicing cycle awareness, there's a certain integrity, and flow and magnetism that comes into the system that is so compelling for those around. Like I found myself so attracted to what you were doing. I think it, when we practice cycle awareness, we're plugged into our own story, the unfolding story of our lives in a much deeper way. And when we're plugged into that story, we plug into the, we're plugged into the like mothership as in we can voice what we want to do and how we want to live our calling in a way that does become magnetic

because it's sourced from the deepest part of us and you know time and time again I've worked with business owners you know coaches and teachers and creatives all kinds of brilliant people because I then went on to start my own consultancy after Tree Sisters and time and time again they've come to me saying you know I need this like what strategy do I need what tools do I need I think I need a new website maybe I need to rebrand and time and time again what it comes back to is who are you what are you here for and how can you tell people about that in a way that stirs something in them and wake something up in them and shows them that you can support them on whatever transformation you want to guide them in like how can you tell that story

it's why I just love bringing cycle awareness into the mix because cycle awareness plugs us in plugs us into ourselves but you said there Sophie who are you and what are you what's the story you're here to tell or yeah who who are you and what matters to you I can't remember your exact words that is so powerful and what you say is so right cycle awareness helps us to know ourselves and helps us to know what we're about, which you're saying from a marketing and business perspective is the root of all business. And it's what we're really about. Underneath all of the layers and all of the conditioning and all of the masks we might wear that's where the magnetism is isn't it that's where the magnetism is and as you and I've said

so many times that's why being a business owner is both terrifying but absolutely thrilling because the process of unearthing that unearthing the calling unearthing who we truly are which is necessary to have a successful business is it evolves us hugely it means we have to stay awake to ourselves you know as the person who's the face and the voice and the holder of the vision at the core of the business we have to keep digging deeper and deeper and deeper because that's where the gold is that's going to make the whole business work and I'm laughing even though it's quite like excruciating process a lot of the time in my personal experience and I know it isn't yours but for anyone who's who wants to be awake

you know and fully alive it's a great path for it. So I'm just going to pause the conversation for a moment to share that our free webinar for Your Cyclical Business, the program that we're talking about in this episode, is coming up on Thursday the 25th of May. It's called How Your Menstrual Cycle Can Help You To Create A Thriving Business. It's at 11am New York time, 4pm London time and we'd love to have you with us. You can register for free at yourcyclicalbusiness.com. That's yourcyclicalbusiness.com. We'll look at some clear pathways for you to enhance your creativity, manage your own unique energy flow, navigate your inner critic and grow your business in an aligned way, all inspired by your cyclical wisdom. Yeah, it is.

Alexandra and I were just saying a couple of days ago and i won't quote a verbatim because there were so many swear words in there i can't really i don't know if i can do it justice but basically she was saying running a business is the most hardcore spiritual discipline there were a lot of bucks in there and um and i've heard you say this as well so jade you know where you go your business goes so you know you talk about how uh your business is not a thing um it's a reflection of an expression of who you are that's a major responsibility you know and when you said like that I'm like what you just pointed to there was how we need to grow up as we grow

our businesses like those two things are um go hand in hand beautifully said yeah we have to grow up to grow our businesses yes yeah yeah so you have been on this journey because you've been an entrepreneur in kind of lots of guises and faces going kind of way back. You've also worked in organizations. And then as one of your sort of own businesses that you set up was this consultancy where you were working with many, many, many, many small business owners. So you've really seen, I want to say into the belly of the beast, both from your own personal experience, but also from all these people that you've been

working with, many of them menstruating people, like you've worked a lot. So that's interesting. And I know for quite a while, cycle awareness wasn't part of your consultancy right I think that was where some of your frustration lay yes yeah so I'm I'd love to hear because I mean this is people can obviously really harvest the richness of this when they come and study your cyclical business with you. But just give us a taste of what you learned and discovered in your consulting that holds people back in expressing their calling. And not just expressing their calling, but in doing it in a way that's reciprocal. Because I know this really matters to you Sophie um that it's generative that people's lives can be sustained that there can be financial abundance that comes from it yeah what what what what are the things that

tell us what are the hurdles oh man I love your day 20 energy so much it's really fun yeah so when I left Tree Sisters I actually left because I needed to create a lower stress environment because as much as it was fun we were trying to do something huge and I felt the hugeness of it every day and in a way I felt it in my womb I felt that I was gestating this vision and I desperately wanted a baby so I've never even really said this to anybody but I knew I needed to take everything out of my womb space my kind of creative generative center and make space for a baby and it was really hard to let go of Tree Sisters because I just thought that was my life you know it was another trapeze moment but I had to

I had to and so I was very committed to creating a business that was low stress and it was actually it was wonderful and my thought was okay you know I've been I've run a guest house I've been a yoga teacher I've run a yoga school I've been a filmmaker I've been a film producer I've been a like not-for-profit marketing person I reckon I can take some of this and I can and I made Fimo models and sold them for 10p on my mom's craft store. The first business is always the best. And thank you mom for teaching about entrepreneurship that is so beautiful to see that to track that back but I thought okay I think I can take some of what I've learned and bring it to these passionate wise skillful amazing you know friends of mine basically

who are all running their own you know as massage therapists or artists or yoga teachers or coaches counsellors you know I can help them and you know I'll help them make business plans and marketing plans and they're just going to boom you know it's going to be amazing and you know to a large extent it was we got loads of great results and I love I love working one-to-one with people you know people were getting more clients. They were making more sales. They were reorganizing their businesses to make them more sustainable, like you said, more joyful for them, more easeful. And I quickly realized there is a lot in the way.

People who are, who've got everything it takes to run a really successful business all the skill that they're really good at what they do but there are these things in the way that prevent them from being able to make it as financially abundant and you know as resourcing them as much as they'd like it to be and it wasn't it was frustrating I can imagine partly why it was frustrating, Sophie, because you could see it so clearly, and you were coming and are coming from a place of really deep connection and holding because of all your cycle awareness practice. There's a real trust that

you've grown in yourself and in what you do and um yeah and then when you can see it so clearly and yet people are kind of coming up against these paralysis and um things are not shifting yeah okay so go on there were three core ones that I've actually clarified in your cyclical business and it's formed the like the backbone of the whole program and I definitely have my own version of these but the three things I kept seeing again and again were firstly overwhelm this feeling of wearing all the hats and having way too much to do and not knowing how and when to do it that unfortunately can end in burnout and it had I think in many ways my journey with Tree Sisters and I was also running a women's circle healing business at the same time women's wellness

the women's wellness circle you know I think I poured so much into both of those and it was I think I reached that place of burnout um so that's that was the first thing I kept seeing is like the the overwhelm was paralyzing people and then the second one really was self-doubt imposter syndrome the critic really taking over I'm not good enough I'm not this enough I don't have what it takes lots of comparisonitis you know social media is full of people presenting a certain aspect of their business and not the rest of it and it's people can very easily think that they're doing it all wrong and just being crippled by it and I see why it's so pervasive because of the way our world is set up basically we're just like set up to compare ourselves all the time and then the last one was I call it

playing small and it shows up in lots of ways and it's really a fruit of the first two but it's keeping everything small and safe and feeling confused about how to actually allow the business to grow and expand so kind of keeping ourselves in loops of boom or bust or feast and famine instead of knowing it's okay and that we can find an aligned way a way that's aligned with our values for our businesses to grow and become more generative create more income for us and along the way create more impact for the people that we're here to serve so those were the three things I saw time and time again like basically hatred of marketing self-doubt and overwhelm and as you say we can probably all recognize

encountering these things to greater or lesser degrees in some ways i mean you talk about them as the three pathways uh we could say they're the sort of three gateways because we we we all need to pass through these they're challenges on the way and at the same time there seems to be a whole kind of missing key here that can really help. And I mean, this is, this is what your cyclical business is, isn't it? It's the answer to these. Yes, it is. I mean, firstly, I love that you're calling them gateways. I really like this. Yeah, I like that reframe.ame but yeah when you say the missing key motherhood worked something in me here because it was motherhood that helped me find the missing key to unlock yeah tell tell tell me about that so I was

you know we took our IVF journey we were so lucky to get pregnant the first time and have our beautiful baby boy. And we were a few months into dealing with having a newborn child, which is nothing can prepare you for that. So I was up in the middle of the night, every night breastfeeding. And then we didn't have a breastfeed an easy breastfeeding journey anyway that's a whole other story and that's a whole other podcast that we really need to have shiny a breastfeeding podcast oh well I mean we could have that one but I mean how cycle awareness can support you through motherhood yeah anyway so I had just lots of time sitting in the rocking chair breastfeeding Artie and I had a lot of time to I would call it think but it wasn't thinking it was dreaming soul searching it's a kind of reverie you know can I just say something about this because this is so interesting I I

often used to feel like breastfeeding was like a menstrual moment, that there's something that happens in, I don't know the hormonal situation when you're breastfeeding sort of stop and sit down. And I used to notice I was taken into experiences which had a flavor of menstruation. Like I had this dreaming, visioning, reverie sort of, but also a surrender, a rest, a restoration quality. So I'm not surprised that something kind of new came to you in those moments and I also just you know to um uh to pave the way for that conversation we're going to have about motherhood what I also want to say is this is why so many new mothers completely change their lives after having children well it's for many reasons but one

of the things is there is something about the that transition of motherhood and i think particularly the postnatal days that opens us up to a future we may have never had access to before because we are so different and then the kind of yeah the whole the whole orchestration of those early days the loss of rhythm loss of sleep all of that yeah okay so go on go on go on tell me what happened in that in your menstrual breastfeeding so yeah middle of the night as we've said everything's turned upside down these hormones flowing and I started to receive just new ways of understanding and seeing

business guys I'm closing my eyes here because it's hard to, I can't feel back to what I was learning and seeing in that time. Like everything since I had Artie has become, like I just move forward each day and there's no time to look back and reflect, you know? So it's so interesting to try and feel into what was happening inside me but it's okay because it led to something essentially one of the core things I realized was the menstrual cycle and menstrual cycle awareness was the missing key in my work supporting purpose-led you know purpose-driven entrepreneurs and founders and business owners. Through these gateways, along these pathways, if we had menstrual cycle awareness on our side,

then we could see our strengths more clearly, we could see our vulnerabilities more clearly, and we could find our way into a rhythmical way of working and this was one of the big things that happened I tuned in to the 99.9% of life on earth I think it literally is 99.9% that isn't human it is entirely cyclical compared to this 0.01% of human life that thinks that we can just produce all the time and do all the time and we have really caught in this fantasy which is absolutely unplugged from the rest of reality so I really tuned into this 99.9% of life and I could feel that the menstrual cycle was a way to translate that that fundamental cyclicity of everything if we can day by day track our cycle we can bring that

alive in our day-to-day running of the business and it becomes really practical you know it sounds like it could be ethereal and a concept but this is this is real it's like okay it's day 23 of my business it's day 23 of my cycle I've got to show up for an interview today I could give up in the face of what my critic is saying to me or I could recognize that I'm inside the dissolution of the premenstruum right now and I could let myself be tender and soft I can take it a little bit slower and I and I bet there'll be some gold that happens in this interview that will help me to grow my business you know it's like it's so real and practical so real and practical yeah then that that was one of the gateways you spoke about was the self-doubt and the how the critic can paralyze us which of course is a huge obstacle to our creative flow but what you're saying sophie is that with cycle awareness we can actually work with our critic as a creative ally and harness that power

in what we do. It's hugely practical. Yeah, I really get that. And give me another example. So this other sort of pathway is that many people find themselves on is sort of stuck in the overwhelm and burnout is such a huge thing particularly if you are you know a one woman one person show um because you are having to do you know you're the marketing you're the creative director you're the you know so on and so forth um but regardless even if you have a team of people you're working with um there's so many elements to running a business so burnout is really real and the multitasking is a huge challenge so so yeah tell me a bit about how cycle awareness is medicine or remedy for that well one of the reasons that the overwhelm is happening well two reasons are usually because we're not aware of all the different hats that we're

wearing so that's one of the things we do on the course is actually name. What are all the roles that I'm playing? And then I think the second reason is because we think that we have to be on all the time. So we have to be communicating with our customers and clients. We have to be emailing. We have to be on social media. We have to be planning the next thing. And it can be really easy to slip into the momentum of that. So easy. I watched myself do it loads of times in my consultancy and suddenly get to the end of,

you know, like a three month just push and be absolutely exhausted. Because there's often very real factors, you know, we need bread on the table. You know, we need to make progress. And what cycle awareness shows us is that there is a natural time for winter for for fallowness for rest and on the course we get really practical about what can rest look like for you how can we put it into your monthly plan as a business owner how can you find micro moments of it like what is your unique way of turning inwards and taking a breath rather than always thinking that you have to be in this constant out breath and then it goes on doesn't it as you know Shani as you have taught me it goes on from like

if there's more rest in winter it can help us to put some riverbanks in place and understand what our how how we're tender and how we find might find things challenging and in the spring so that we can contain ourselves and let that rising energy go somewhere rather than kind of dissipate or turn into anxiety which is my current cycle awareness edge I feel and then how can we allow ourselves in our inner summer to be more fully expressed to bring bring the fullness of ourself forward like it's really the time for that and then in in autumn how can we slow down review discern prune back ready for some more winter time and on and on it goes and what I noticed because it's not only just a course that we're doing it's

a you know we have a live round of the course but then we've we've met every month for a year now the first cohort of the course and it's wonderful to watch how like month after month after month we just get more information and more insight and more knowing and more knowledge and we we're all sort of finding our way to settle into what is our our own unique cyclical business rhythm because it's not a there's no template here it's not like there is a way to do this there is our way to do it yeah I mean it's so obvious to me and I know it's so obvious to you, but I also just want to say how radical it is what you are teaching because it's business planning according to the wisdom of cycles. And, you know, you're talking about how this makes our business life sustainable, but you're also saying that if we honor these different seasons of our lives and of our business and of our cycle, we really can tap into the creative power of that.

You know, the vision, the expression and so on and so forth. So I can hear the resource that comes from this. And the other thing that I think is hugely exciting, which you've mentioned, so not only is this bringing in this whole layer of wisdom into people's entrepreneurial lives, you say that your cyclical business is this growing community of entrepreneurs who are all cycle aware and supporting each other and in a way pioneering what this means in their in their personal experience of it so there's a sounds like a very rich unfolding and I know because I've seen the feedback that's come in from, well, right after the course there was just such a wave of positive feedback,

you know, people feeling confidence that they've not felt before, feeling like really grounded in their own knowing and feeling like they're creatively alive, that there's a momentum that they're being carried by and so on. But after these community calls you've been doing, Sophie, people write to say that the allyship and support they feel and how in a way exciting it is to be at the cutting edge of something and really evolving something together sounds so juicy well I think the main thing is they don't feel lonely especially when you're running a business by yourself you most you don't know what you're

doing most of the time you haven't got anyone to brainstorm with and chat about it with so you feel like you're doing it wrong and you feel like you're you're mad and you feel like you're not making the progress you should make but you're not sure what progress you should be making and so we're I'm borrowing Abby Wambach's term here we're we're a wolf pack for each other and we I'm learning so much from everybody we're all learning so much from each other because everyone's got amazing unique wisdom to bring here and you know I talk about these three pathways you know where we want to move to like everyone's in a different place on this spectrum is from overwhelm to this sustainable creative flow and sustainable organization organizational flow so that involves like getting the right systems in place so we even talk about the practical details of you know getting the right systems

in place so that's that first pathway is like we're wanting to get to a place where there's a steadiness inside the cyclicity where we're not we know we're allowed to rest actually we know we must find ways to rest in order to keep the business healthy and then the the second pathway of the self-doubt can slowly over time transform to this grounded confidence. And it's a confidence in ourselves, but even deeper than that, it's a confidence in the calling that we are stewarding and holding. And I feel like what cycle awareness does is it helps us to have confidence in our capacity to fulfill that calling whatever that looks like which is that makes the whole business game possible and also fun like that's when it's really in in like life enriching rather than taking away from us is when day after day we feel like we're

closer and closer to this calling getting an opportunity to live it out and then the last one is the marketing piece which is so funny because like the amount of times I've heard people say I just hate marketing can't someone just do the marketing for me I I don't want to, I don't want to, it feels salesy. It feels icky. I don't know how to do it in a way that sounds like me. And yeah, like I said, at the beginning of the conversation, for whatever reason, this is so my thing and I absolutely love it. I was going to say, if anybody wants to experience a complete transformation around their relationship with sales and marketing, all they really need to do, Sophie, is just hang out with you and be in this circle and in this group because you're, I mean, I find it so inspiring, not only your passion for it, but also

you hold such a integrity with it and a wholesomeness that is it it would make anyone fall in love with sales quite honestly really I think it maybe it comes from the filmmaking you know and from Tree Sisters too from being so because we were making films that were I felt were really important in terms of the messages that they held and it was very easy I found it easy to to sell them and to raise money for them because I was so connected yeah so I think I think the reason why I find marketing fun is because I recognize that it's a process of getting really connected to your why and from that place the marketing flows much more organically so on the course we actually have

a bonus which is like an ethical marketing exploration where I share some of the foundational principles which unlock the whole game around marketing and make it feel more a little bit more fun a little bit easier and just open up and soften up because you know the truth is that these people like and people listening who run your own businesses you're not selling big macs you know you're not selling fast fashion that's destroying the planet you're probably selling something that is deeply deeply in fact I'm not gonna say probably I know that you're selling something that's deeply impactful, isn't it? It's bringing beauty into the world. It's helping to heal people. It's helping people to make progress and transform. You can get behind what you're selling. It's a good, good thing. Yeah, and, you know, that's where menstruation delivers, doesn't it, Sophie? Because if you aren't plugged into the meaning that's, you know,

at work in whatever you're doing, that really connects you and that brings the alignment you're speaking of and therefore your marketing just flows from that place. It comes from a place of service and contribution. Yeah, yeah, very yeah very very very beautiful so um as we bring this to a close could you share something of your wisdom for the people listening out there who are running a business any advice you can offer thank you shiny i've loved this conversation i think i would say that running a business is challenging and it's normal if you feel challenged because it's stretching you and it's inviting you to grow every bloody day, inviting you to grow and become the person that you need to cyclicity the more the more intimacy you can cultivate with your experience of cycles whether you have a menstrual cycle currently or not the more you'll

be able to have those moments of inner winter tapping into your vision docking in as you always say Sharni docking in and and receiving the beauty of your own vision the more you'll be able to contain your creative energy create systems that work the more you'll be able to allow yourself to be brilliantly you exactly as you are and the more you'll be able to create for you and for people that you're here to serve so a it's hard it's stretching you it's evolving you and b your cycle awareness and your cyclicity is your major major ally your best business coach your mentor here and it's right here inside you right now ah thank you i feel so grateful to you for bringing this teaching this gorgeous rich fabulous program that you've created uh to marry cycle awareness and entrepreneurship uh personally i'm grateful because i'm an entrepreneur and as you might know

i'm a big lover of cycle awareness so to see the marriage of these two things and the way that you hold people through the unfolding of it and how you bring people back to their own wisdom and their own knowing and their own trust in their cycle is just a very, very beautiful thing. And I'm so excited that this program is happening again because I know how many people are eager for it and I know how many people are going to benefit from it. Thank you so much, Sophie-Jane, for using your brilliance in this way. Thanks, Johnny. And you are good at this. I really enjoyed that. That was a great interview for me.

Are you offering me a job? It's just that I can take a break sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Watch out. I'm your hostess. I'm the study. I could, you know, I could steal your job if you're not paying it you've got the goods thank you love i've really enjoyed this thanks so much jane ah thank you for listening today phew back to my usual role next week if you're interested in your cyclical business the course is open for registration from thursday the 25th of may and that's the day that we're going to have this free webinar where i'll be sharing more about the course

you can ask your questions and it'll be great to have you there with us. You can find out all about the course and take your seat for the webinar at yourcyclicalbusiness.com. Okay that's it for this week, I'll see you next time and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.