The Menstruality Podcast - How to Guide Your Child Through Their First Period (Emily Stewart)

Episode Date: April 21, 2022

Our first period is a big event. Today we’re exploring why it’s so important to support girls and young menstruators through this transition, as well as how we can resource ourselves as parents, aunties and carers so we can meet our kids where they are at and celebrate them . I’m talking with Emily Stewart, the founder of The Real Period Project. She's also a Celebration Day for Girls facilitator, and the creator of the Red School Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche programme. Her dream is to see a world where the menstrual cycle is seen as an ally and teacher, and talking about it is a normal part of life.We explore:- How to practically prepare for guiding your child through their first period, including ways to resource yourself, as well as age-appropriate books and other resources.- Why it’s important to start sharing about periods when your child is young and receptive to exploring ideas, and before the teenage phase kicks in. - Our upcoming live round of our Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche programme, how you can join, and how it will guide you step-by-step to nurture and nourish your child as they approach their puberty years and first period with curiosity, support and a readiness for the changes ahead.Join us for a live round of our Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche programme. We start at the beginning of May, and you can join us here: www.redschoolonline.net/p/mothering-your-daughter-through-menarche---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.school

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome back to the Menstruality Podcast. Today we're exploring a really interesting topic, the first ever period we have, why it's such a big event and why it's so important to support

girls and young menstruators through this transition, as well as how we can resource ourselves through this initiatory moment as parents or aunties or carers, so that we can meet our kids where they are and support and celebrate them as they experience their first period. I'm talking with Emily Stewart. She's the founder of The Real Period Project. She's a Celebration Day for Girls facilitator and the creator of the red school mothering your daughter through menarche program so today we chat about how to practically prepare for guiding your child through their first period we talk about age appropriate books ways to resource yourself lots of other resources why it's so important to start sharing about periods while your child is younger and receptive to exploring ideas and also all about our upcoming live round of mothering your daughter through

monarchy and although we use the terms mother and daughter throughout this podcast and this course the course is intended for anyone who has experienced periods themselves and those who are parenting a child who will experience periods so we'll talk about the live round and how it's going to guide you step by step to nurture and nourish your child as they approach their puberty years and their first period, with curiosity and support and a readiness for the changes ahead. Okay, let's get going with how to guide your child through their first period with Emily Stewart. Well, hi, Emily. Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast. It's so lovely to be having this conversation with you. I was thinking about this this morning because you and I go so way back. Yeah, we do. Hello.

So we would have met when your daughter daughter who we're going to talk about today in the episode was about four or five yeah yeah I think she was four yeah and we were planting trees yeah absolutely yeah they were good days on the tree sisters team but yes now we're all about the menstrual cycle both of us in different ways let's get into this but first let's do what we always do which is begin with a cycle check-in so can you tell us what day you're on and how it is impacting your mood and your energy and your emotions or anything else you'd like to share sure so I'm day 26 today I think I'm probably a couple of days till the end of this cycle and I I'm just in a really busy phase of my life at the moment so I feel like I get to sort of day

26 to 27 I'm like oh right I'm here I can tell because my body is seriously slowing down I'm like I really don't want to cycle to work this morning and I'm just planning on how I can make the next few days as easeful but I've got this feeling of nesting like right what can I park what can I move aside what can I like move and change and reschedule so I don't have to do it I'm in that kind of place today I think definitely I'm with you I'm a couple of days ahead day 28 and I feel like I might be in the next bit where I've been doing my sorting got the food in the fridge got the I know what the meals are going to be for the next few days I've like cleared a bit of space and like I'm just waiting now we'll see and then my period will probably just like my cycle will probably just be a total trickster and not come until

like day 33 now oh god that drives me crazy when that happens come on you just gotta accept it like oh it's so annoying I'm in limbo yes limbo the lovely limbo well we are our topic for today is menarche or menarche how do you say it menarche I say menarche um but I know some people say menarche some people say menarche but for me it's menarche but anything goes yeah so we're talking menarche so you created mothering your daughter through menarche which is an online self-study course for red school and it just feels really important to note up top that although the course is mothering your daughter through menarche it is available to those who wouldn't identify themselves as mothers and for non-binary kids. So I think it's important to name that straight up front. And we're having

this conversation because soon in a couple of weeks, we're going to be doing our first ever live round of mothering your daughter through monarchy. And so I'd love to ask you as we begin this conversation why did you create this program what what is the passion that drives this work for you yeah so um I've been passionate about this for a long time I think partly from my own experience of starting out having a really rough time with my periods um not having a great time when I started them to begin with, feeling very isolated and alone and not really knowing what was going on. I mean, I did know what was going on because I was really late to start, but I still, it was still a shock to me. And then I had a really tough time and it wasn't until I was in my late twenties, early thirties, that I came across cycle charting for fertility awareness actually at the time which led me into

menstrual cycle awareness and the work of Red School and you know all of this work which just completely transformed over many years my relationship with my cycle and when I had my daughter I just thought she has to have a different experience so how can I do that and I came across the work of Jane Bennett in 2012 she's an amazing woman I think you've interviewed her quite recently on the podcast Sophie yes we talked about menstrual shame in her book about bloody time yeah so Jane's such an inspiration to me because she's just so confident in her way of talking with girls and having this message that actually the menstrual cycle is a magical thing without sugarcoating it and that's what I really loved about her program and that's what I've really wanted to always bring

to my work is this the fact that we don't have to sort of say yeah periods are wonderful but we but actually in empowering girls by telling them what their body is doing and how amazing it is and how abundant and fantastic their body is it really counteracts all this society's messages of kind of gross and shame and secrecy and all of this and so I've just all this last 10 years just been working with this alongside my other work I'm a nurse as well so I work with women's health a little bit in my job and I just see the effect of the negative messages we have around our menstrual cycle. And from my own experience in working with women and working in menstrual cycle awareness circles, to see the difference that you can have when you are introduced to your cycle in an empowered and open and understanding way. It's just night and day. And it's so exciting to think that we can change the trajectory of someone's life.

So being a mum myself to a girl and going through this whole transition with her I feel one of the reasons I wanted to do this course in particular was because in the past I've worked with girls and mums but mostly with the girls for this course it's really I wanted to give mums a bit of extra support and a bit of understanding and a bit of a hand-holding along this way because it can feel quite bewildering when your daughter's approaching men are where your child is your children are approaching this age and you're thinking god where do I start and so I wanted to create something that could be a reassuring um hug along the way I love that a reassuring hug and you've just recently gone through this with your own daughter so I wanted

to ask how was that? Yeah so she started her periods last year and she's just blown me away she really has I mean she she had two of these celebration day for girls workshops we I took her to two so she had double the the magic and she was of an age at the time she was 11 when we were doing them and she was really up for it she really enjoyed it and then a while after that she was like okay mum you have told me enough information now I was like are you sure are you feeling prepared she was like yes that's enough back away and then she started her periods and she was just off away and she has just taken to it like a duck to water is I've been so impressed with her really impressed it's been such a joy to see the difference of her just

getting on with it and what's amazing now is you know we have all these amazing things like period pants which obviously didn't exist in our big fat body form pads days and um and she's you know she can wear them to school and it's just so much easier so yeah I'm really impressed by how well she's done and I think her fully knowing what was going to be happening and feeling relaxed and confident with it was a was a big part of that has it been like that for her friends as well has she told you anything about her friends experiences unfortunately experiences? Unfortunately, no, I have asked, but they, as it's a funny one, as much as I think things are definitely different now to how they were when I was at school. I think there's still quite a bit of a squeamishness around it in terms of talking to other people. I think she probably

does talk to her friends about it. But she wouldn't convey that to me. She's definitely as she's got older, she's definitely like, look, this is my private life. You know, whenever I, whenever I mentioned, I have to be quite careful when I mentioned periods, I'm like, so do you have everything you need? She's like, yep, I'm fine. Which is why I, you know, one of the things I always say to parents is start as young as you can. Because when your kids are young, they're really open to talking about puberty and they're really open to talking about um puberty and they're really they'll have a giggle and they'll look at books and they'll ask questions you leave it until they're like 13 then they're much more likely to be really in that adolescence like I'm in my body this is my space back off and so I think it's really important as much as we can to start as

early as we can can be really really helpful but I mean her friends seem to be all right we're definitely in the territory of like my friends and what we do are over here um yes you're over there mum and it suddenly becomes all about everything is the friendship group isn't it at this age so this is deviating from our topic slightly but I imagine it was going to speak to the people who are listening and I have a lot of curiosity about it how are you handling this separation that's happening with you and her then as she makes that move towards her friends how is that yeah that is an ongoing journey I I ask this of my friends who've got older children you know older girls because I only have a daughter I don't have any sons so you know I asked this how did you get through how was it for you and

and I think the question is just a day at a time really and we've gone we go through phases last summer um was a big change and I really struggled with it actually I think there's this thing you know um you know I've spoken about the intensity of of mothering a very small child. And, you know, for a long time, you've got to sort of turn your life inside out and be everything to them. And then like almost overnight, they're like, okay, that whole mum that you've been for the last however many years, I don't want any of that. That all sucks. You're like, oh, who am I? What do I, you know? So it's been hard, but also, you know, it's that ongoing process of mothering, growing you.

From the moment you get your child, whether you give birth or adopt or whatever the process is, it's a, it's a growing up process. You get grown up throughout it. So yeah, the whole, you know, the whole process is, is amazing and beautiful and hard at times but you know it's fun as well because she's awfully amazing good company as well we have a really good laugh oh that's so lovely to hear I look forward to meeting her again soon let's talk about why it's so important to support girls and young menstruators through this transition.

You've spoken about the kind of grossness and the shame. And, you know, we know that menstrual shame has a huge impact across the world. So, yeah, could you walk us into that? Why is it so important to support these young people? Yeah, absolutely. to support these young people yeah absolutely I think the whole process of adolescence as we know is it can be a really tricky time for young people to go through and to navigate and I think if you're a young person who's navigated starting periods in a world where that tends to be wanted to be you know shushed and and people find it a bit icky then it's really easy to take on the message that somehow you're icky and something a bit secret and gross about

you and even though I have to say in the last 10 years since I've been doing this work I see a huge change in that I really do I mean not as huge as I'd like it to be but um you know schools are much more on board with this and you know there's so many resources out there and so much interest and passion in this whole topic and and young people have got really behind the issues with period poverty and I think that's really opened the door to this conversation and a wider level especially in schools which has been really fabulous to see so in terms terms of, I mean, menarche itself is a threshold that you cross when you start your periods. But it's this whole time, really, of, you know,

people used to say, you're a woman now, which is just such an unhelpful thing to say to an 11-year-old. It really is. What pressure. But at the same time, you know, there's this confusion of, like, you start your periods, therefore you can have a baby, therefore you're a woman. And obviously in some cultures, that means that you're then eligible to be married and all these other, you know, it's huge. It just create it has this huge baggage that can come with it. And I think if we instead if we can hold young people as they approach this in a really gentle way and say, hey,

this is a really tricky time. Sometimes it can be a time where you feel like everything's changing, and it's a bit confusing, and your body's doing all these weird things, you don't really know why, and you've got no control over them. I think the empowerment of knowing what's going on and why it's happening is really helpful. And if we can create an atmosphere of a bit of excitement around it like isn't this amazing isn't our body isn't our body an amazing thing then we start to create a sense of wonder and magic around it and again that comes back to starting as young as we can like we it's easy to create an idea of magic and wonder around the amazing ways our bodies work when your child's nine or ten if they're 13 and you know half their friends have got a period and they haven't yet then it's it's a bit harder but at

the same time knowing that they're supported having an open door for conversation and having ways that they feel really supported and celebrated as well through this transition and reassured that they don't have to be someone different they're still very much themselves but they will be feeling like things are changing inside them and that's okay I think it's just that reassurance really reassurance and celebration are really important and just in who they are and as themselves so that they can sort of get a sense of who they are amongst all this change that's going on around them. I think this idea of making friends with your body as it changes and feeling like, oh, this is an uncomfortable sensation, but what's it telling me? And, you know, getting to know your body, I think it's a gift that if we can start to foster that at a

young age, can serve them so well. Certainly with my daughter, I haven't mentioned menstrual cycle awareness much to her other than, you know, how I talk about it myself, because she's just getting used to it. She's just getting used to managing it herself, but she knows that that's out there. She knows that's a possibility. And as she gets older, I'll mention it a bit more and maybe suggest I get her a little diary or, you know, we'll talk about it a bit more. But at the beginning, it's just about planting seeds really we're planting seeds that actually their body's an amazing thing that actually their cycle is something that can be a tool for them for the rest of their lives you know for the next maybe 30 odd years there's this tool that they

can work with that they can help get to know their own bodies with I think that's a really exciting way to approach it I think what you're saying is so important here because it's countering all of the negative messages that girls and young people are receiving about their bodies as in if your body doesn't look like this essentially one white blonde skinny the the body the body type that our culture venerates then there's something wrong with you you know they and they're getting these messages subtly and overtly and they're getting all the negative messages around periods often as well. So everything that you're saying about the wonder and the magic and guiding them to make friends with their body and to be able to be body literate and be able to feel what's going on and in a way

that's appropriate for them, dignify what's going on is going counter to that or that negative messaging, which feels so good yeah definitely and and just some simple you know some simple factual knowledge of you know what's normal what's not normal as well and whenever I speak to anyone of any age I always try to take time to say you know there's natural variation like just as everyone's got different colored eyes or different types of hair or different heights you know some people will start their periods when they're eight or nine some people will be 15 16 and there'll be everything in between and some people will have this will happen first and other people that will happen first and you know and some people will have

cycle lengths that are this long or this long and there's no one size fits all there's no like your cycle has to be 28 days long and your period has to be five days long otherwise you're not normal it's like oh it's so unhelpful it's another thing as you say it's like this rigid perfection that we're supposed to achieve it's just you know i think it's really helpful just to be reassuring about you know as long as you're not finding these red flags, as long as you're not in intense pain or bleeding through lots and lots of pads, you know, changing every hour, you know, as long as we're clear on what's normal, what's not normal. Reassurance is such an important thing at that time of like, am I normal? Yes, you're normal. This is fine. You know, this is absolutely fine. It's look at what we can do then as the parents or carers of these girls and young people

going through this phase and I want us to start with our own personal experiences of our first period and like you mine wasn't perfect it wasn't the dream menarche it was my friend had just had a urine infection and she'd had brown wee and I saw this brown mark on my pants and I thought I was ill and I remember coming home crying and saying there's something wrong there's something wrong and then my mum said oh no my love there isn't it was beautiful really so there isn't it's you started your period and I was like I can remember I could really evoke the feeling now of like oh god this thing and then she you know she came and brought me the pads and and then we didn't say much else after that actually but it was generally apart from that misunderstanding at the beginning generally quite uh you know it was okay it was just a bit of a non-event yeah yeah but for people who had

maybe an experience that where they felt it wasn't really honored or was a bit of a non-event or if they actually had a tricky or challenging experience and they don't want to pass that on yeah what can we do with that yeah it's such a great question because a lot of mums who either had a really difficult time of the first period or more as commonly had a really bad time with their periods in general. And a lot of women have a really difficult relationship with their cycle and they're nervous of passing that on. And so I think it's a really common and understandable concern so the first thing really is just take take a big deep breath and um and reassure yourself that this is your experience is not going to be their experience I had a friend who was convinced that her daughter's

going to have an awful time because she had two and I kept having to say to her you know just because you had a tough time but she might take after her father in terms of body type school is a different place nowadays culture is a different place even though it seems like we're moving glacially slowly in terms of menstrual shame and shifting it things are moving you know we are changing and so it is a different atmosphere that girls are in now and the conversations that they have are different to the ones we maybe had when we were younger so it's a different world and it's a different she's a different person and just the fact that as a mother you're really wanting to be there for your child and you're really present and you're really putting the effort in is again might be very different to the experience you had when you were that age so I think being gentle in yourself is the most important thing just really whenever you feel yourself getting all scared and thinking oh this

is going to be terrible you know just to try and take that step back and say it's a different time you know she's a different person but that being said you know what we model at home is really powerful and so if you're able to model a gentle and loving relationship with yourself and your body and your cycle then that is going to be the most powerful thing that your daughter's going to pick up on and that doesn't mean that you have to say I love my period every second of the day because certainly in our household I still get quite bad cramps a lot of the time but my daughter sees me dealing with them in a way that you know I have my bath and I do this I do various different things that and then I'm fine and she can see me doing that. I just get on quietly and do it. And then I go to work.

What's powerful is that she can see that I'm marking it and I'm respectful of myself and I'm giving myself what I need, but it's not, you know, I'm not being dramatic about it. So one of the things that I know I've struggled with and I know a lot of mums struggle with and teachers in school struggle with is you want to be able to encourage your daughter to honour her cycle. And, you know, a lot of that is you can maybe taking some time off when you bleed and everything, but you don't want to encourage her to miss two days of school every month because that would be crazy. And so there's this like balance to have. you know for the last five years or so building up to her starting her periods I was really aware of that so this is something you can do is be really mindful about how you speak about things and also speak more about what you're doing there's a lot of the things we do as adults that are so second nature we've just sort of built

our way around doing it but it's really useful when your child is approaching puberty to actually be more verbal about what you're doing so that in a kind of nonchalant kind of way. You know, I might say, oh, I've got some bad cramps this morning, so I'm just going to take this whatever and go and have a'm going to get up a bit earlier so I can have a bath or I'm going to go to bed early tonight because I'm just about to get my period I'm feeling a bit tired and look after myself so just being more overt in the way you're doing things is a balance isn't it you don't want to push it down their throats too much but at the same time I think that's important because otherwise we could be doing these things and thinking we're modeling them but actually they might be almost invisible so um yeah it's a difficult balance but I think you know encouraging your your kids to see the fact that you are looking after yourself and but you're also you know

taking responsibility for your life at the same time. It's really interesting that you say this because my friend has two daughters and she's just been through an experience that really relates to what you shared so one of them started her period about a year ago and the other one who's a year and a half younger is just starting now and when the older one started they had a ceremony, my friend was teaching her about menstrual cycle awareness you know it was a really big deal in the family and then when her second daughter started she actually hid it from her because she was scared that all of that she didn't want that I guess you could call it fuss but that's you know that's a judgmental word but she didn't want all of that

around she she felt uncomfortable with her period she didn't want it she didn't want it to be celebrated she didn't want people to know so eventually I mean my friend found out because there are ways of finding out you know she found pads and things like that and and they've had a good talk about it since and but it is very interesting that you can go too far accidentally if you're passionate about menstrual about the menstrual cycle definitely definitely and I think having your having a conversation with your child you're asking them what what do you want what would you like would you like to have some celebration or would you rather that we just do something really quiet and also I think

this part of that we we've talked about a bit before, as they start to move away and into their own circle and into themselves, it's like a natural progression of them gradually separating away from the parents, which is the natural progression of childhood, isn't it and so an increased yearning for privacy I think is is natural and it can be quite painful as a mum when your child hides something like that from you and you have such hope and expectation about it but actually that might just be what they need to do for them that might be a really necessary part of their growing up. And at the same time, it's quite helpful to have a conversation with children about the difference between privacy and secrecy, because it's natural and normal to have different levels of desires for privacy. Some people are completely open and have no need for privacy at all. And other people are very private people and they don't want to shout from the rooftops and have lots of attention.

And yet there's a subtle yet powerful difference between that and secrecy. Because when we keep something secret and hidden, it implies that there's something shameful and wrong about it. But when we just stay private and quiet, it's when we're just looking after our own needs and so I think talking to our kids about that and saying we would really respect their privacy and that there's nothing to hide unless they you know feel that they want to be private that's absolutely fine I think that's a really helpful distinction to make if my chat with Emily is inspiring you and you'd like to explore how to support your daughter

or the young menstruator to be in your life we invite you to join us for our upcoming live round of mothering your daughter through menarche in this course you'll be guided by Emily and accompanied by like-minded parents and carers to explore how to nurture and nourish your child through their first period with curiosity and support and a sense of readiness for the changes ahead. The live round begins at the start of May and you can register at redschoolonline.net. Look for the Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche course. That's at redschoolonline.net okay back to the conversation with Emily

as you're talking I'm realizing that a lovely side effect of these conversations around the cycle is a general sense of honoring helping them to learn how to honor their body so that as they enter into like later on into their teenage years and they start to think about being sexual with people that they perhaps you can lay a breadcrumb trail with this, supporting them in this healthy way into their menstrual cycling years, that they will subtly receive messages that their bodies need to be honoured and what they have, or whatever it is, openness, celebration, privacy, whatever their personal desire is, then that's really, really helpful because then we're celebrating and honouring their needs and how they're expressing them, which is, as you say, can be hugely influential later on. Yeah, definitely. And same with the secrecycy because if you're able to help them differentiate between privacy and secrecy then you're hopefully keeping the door open for if anything does happen to them that you would really want to know about that they wouldn't

necessarily keep it secret absolutely yes absolutely and these conversations these protective conversations that we have with our kids are so better done over and over again. And, you know, whether it's talking about sex or talking about periods or talking about pornography or predators online, whatever these things are, the more that we come back to them in ways that are loving and gentle, think is really really helpful we we were talking before about as a mother or as a parent what can you do yourself to sort of not pass on a negative time or to prepare yourself and I realized we sort of got off topic a little bit and I wanted to just briefly go back to that so yeah so coming back to you as a parent, as a mother of a child who's approaching menarche, it's going to be a really potentially quite triggering time.

So especially if you're somebody who had a difficult time with your own menarche, or you had a difficult time with periods yourself, that as your child, I think it didn't, for me, it didn't really happen until my daughter approached adolescence, really. But as they approach an age that was perhaps challenging for you, then it brings back so many memories, sort of buried or barely or half aware of when you were that age. And you see them and you're so afraid that they're going to, you know, have a terrible time like you did or whatever. And I think I just say this because I just want to to a if you're not in that territory yet to say it if it happens don't be hard on yourself because I think it's very normal and b if you're in there just to know that it's again it's normal when you love your

child so much you can't bear the thought of them going through pain can we we don't none of us can understand the thought of our children in pain and we we? We don't, none of us can stand the thought of our children in pain. And we know that we had some pain in our growing up years and we don't want them to have that experience themselves. And so in terms of having had difficult times yourself around periods, there are lots of things that you can actually do. And I know that Red School have got some really good resources around this, because you've got the Menarche course that's for women or anyone who's got a menstrual cycle to actually go back to your own Menarche and look at that experience yourself.

And that kind of work is really, really helpful to do. I mean, ahead of time, if you can, and if not ahead of time, when you're in it with your own child, because that lets you revisit those years yourself and look and see if there are any sticky points, are there any things that you maybe need to offer yourself some compassion around? Because the more you can do to hold yourself, the more you can be there to hold your child, because they're not going to have the same experience as you. But if you can be fully, as much fully there to support yourself, then again, you're going to be able to support them so much more. And sharing your experience with them is really, really helpful. As long as your experience wasn't hugely traumatic and still holds of charge for you. Because if that's the case, then it's not going to help them to have you crying all over them because they can't help

you. And, and that might be frightening for them, obviously, but if you're able to talk about your experience and it doesn't upset you, then it's really powerful. Even if it was negative, you need to say something like, yeah, this was hard because I felt this and felt that, but actually this is really different now because you've got this, and this is how I feel about it now. And you can talk about the progression and that I think can be just so reassuring because they they know then that you know it's it's okay to be a bit scared it's okay to be a bit nervous but actually you're you're showing how much you're there for them now when they're not on their own can we name some of the ways that entering into cycling years could have been traumatic

and difficult for people well I mean there's certainly from all the mums I've heard from over the years there's a huge range of of having no idea what's happening and that's still very much the case nowadays you know it's really disturbing whenever people like plan international do a piece of research in this country asking young people about their experience of periods and starting them there's always a quite a large proportion who started their periods and didn't know what was happening so that's still an issue um still something very scary and isolating that can happen to somebody starting very young or being the first to start and being bullied or teased it can be very humiliating being the last

to start speaking from my own experience it's hard because you feel very different but I think being the first is probably a lot harder because you're so young at that point you know being shamed certainly or I mean gosh there are so many traumatic things that can happen to girls around this age from you know sexual trauma physical trauma all sorts of things that can be really tied in with starting the periods which is something you really need to go and get really specialist support with but you know just as you say um Sophie you could have an experience where actually your mum was really quite pleasant but then nothing really happened and this sort of sense of nothingness about it that in itself can be really difficult you know there's there's some much more obviously extreme versions that can be really really hard where you really are isolated or alone or scared or you don't have anything or you're put down or

there's all these other things but just simply it being a bit of a non-event when actually it's this it is a big event most young people when periods start they've got a sense that something is changing and so for that to be like meh nothing you know that is so what's the word I'm trying to think of the word I'm not sure what that word is but I'm trying to find a word that's coming up for me yeah what I'm present to is how much other stuff was going on at that time like I had little hairs coming out of my um armpits and my mum used to help me cut them like you know and that was when we were still in the kind of before the real adolescent phase when we were still really

connected but then as I became I feel really emotional thinking about it I mean I am on day 28 here but I as I went more into that territory of of adolescent I felt this this very subtle kind of shaming and you know I was changing I was wearing a bit I wanted to wear makeup I was changing I was doing my hair there was a bit of mocking going on around that and just there's huge things going on inside the the psyche and the brain and the hormonal system and the body it is huge it's not a non-event it's massive what's going on isn't it it is huge i mean when you look at the brain changes in adolescence it's the brain is pretty much remodels itself and hormonally you're changing from a child's body into an adult's body it doesn't get much more huge than that apart from maybe then giving birth

later on and and then menopause you know all the major transitions we go through or potentially can go through are life-changing life remodeling as well actually I think for a girl to feel supported and celebrated for who she is and who she's becoming is so powerful and sets her up in such an amazing way and if your child is non-binary and they don't identify as a girl then it might be quite difficult because periods are often associated with you know female being female and feminine and all of that but actually when you see your cycle as something which is a life-giving cycle but also very much a cycle of getting to know your body and getting to know yourself and a journey of self-discovery then actually the celebration of just who you are and how you're experiencing it is just as important so it's meeting our kids where they

are exactly where they are and reassuring them with their fears but also celebrating who they are and who they're who they're growing into I think it's just so important Emily do you have any resources that you could share for parents of young people who identify as non-binary or perhaps for whom in this phase of life their gender identity is being questioned or is creating confusion for them could you send do you have resources I could drop into the show notes for that yes yeah so yeah there's the gender bread resource is really really helpful to talk about the difference between sex and gender that's really really helpful I know that Brooke

sexual health charity when they've worked with non-binary kids they use that quite a lot um so Brooke might be a good place to go to and there are books there's a really really good book I'll look up some and I'll send you a list and we'll drop them in the show notes thank you I appreciate that yeah no problem I've got so many questions I'm thinking of people who might be listening who have older daughters or kids and they've already started their period and they didn't know they weren't present to this way of supporting them is there anything they can do now retrospectively to go back and support them yeah absolutely I mean it's tricky that isn't it because you know we all come to um like menstrual cycle awareness or menstruality at different

points in our lives and I know I've met women who've come to it when their teenage daughters are already you know having periods a few years you know there's nothing like going to your teenage and saying hey I found about this wonderful thing they're like yeah right mom yeah yeah so that is that is obviously tricky again I think it comes back to modeling it really does I think whatever we can do to model gentleness with ourselves that is just so powerful and if you've had a difficult time with your cycle and you're just starting to make friends with it and your child has been, you know,

having periods for a while, then talking about your experience, even though some of the time they might not want to hear it, but you know, there are times when it'd be relevant. There'll be times when you're having a period at the same time and you can drop it into conversation.

There are books and things that you can recommend that can be really really helpful it depends on your relationship with your child is you know some um teenagers and their parents the teenagers are really open they really want to share everything and so if you've got a child like that then you know easy street you can just have those conversations and share what you're learning and see if they can be excited about it as well but if you don't you know and if your child's much more talk to the hand and I'm not interested then I think really starting by asking how their friends talk about it what are the experiences they have at school because in secondary school you know hopefully a lot more schools now they do have not lots of lessons on it but there is more of an awareness depends where you are in the country and

in the world what there is going on and in the school they're at social media wise you know most teenagers have access to whether it's I don't know TikTok or Instagram or YouTube or whatever it is you know there are so many young people who are talking about periods on these different platforms now in really empowering ways. So it might be worth maybe doing, maybe both of you could look into that yourselves. You could see who's actually blogging about this kind of thing or talking about this kind of thing. You can look at, as I say, look at books together if they will do that. You can watch films. There are actually books together, they will do that. You can watch films.

There are actually some really, really good films now. Quite a lot of short films. There's some very funny little short video things that are available that you can have a laugh about, but to lead on to a bit more of a serious conversation. Just dropping little things in every now and then. But the modelling one in the background, I think is the most powerful one. And, you know, if your daughter is open to conversation,

then there's some really good resources to help them get to know their cycle. So there's a really great book called Cycle Savvy, which I'll send you the link, Sophie, so you can put it in the show notes. It's a book for teenagers and young women to get to know, or young people to get to know their cycle and chart it. And so there are some good resources out there.

And a lot of the newer books about periods and things like that are a lot more empowering in that way. There's a really good set of resource that I helped develop um with hey girls which is a company in Scotland who sell period products it's a social enterprise and we created a resource called my period cards and they're really really good because you can get them and have them as just dropping into conversation you can you know leave some there to talk about, they've got pictures on them, card games in that way that have got questions and you can ask,

have those, you know, conversation starters. They can be quite good if you're really struggling to get them to talk about it. But, you know, sometimes if they, if your child really doesn't want to talk about this, that's because they might have a combination of the privacy and the secrecy thing going on. So then you're back to that conversation of, I really respect your privacy. I really respect the fact you want to keep this private. I understand that totally. But then you can talk about the difference between privacy and secrecy. And then it's opening the door.

You're just opening the door to the conversation, really. And the resources. And so that they know they're there should they feel ready to approach them I obviously well I'm not not obviously but I haven't got a teenager yet my little one's 16 months old but I'm sort of imagining the way you're talking it's a bit like with a horse like if you're like going to approach a horse you don't come right up to it you like come from the side or you just approach gently it's like approach a teenager yeah that's a really good yeah it's a good one and you know not everyone has that experience like I do I've got friends who's who's you know kids speak to

about everything I'm like wow that's amazing everyone's different every teenager is different just means we have to work a little harder I don't know maybe it's another part of us growing ourselves up you know we have to learn to meet them where they are oh the parenting journey yeah the gift that keeps on giving it does it does so let's move towards talking about the program, Mothering Your Daughter Through Manaki. There's a really nice sentence on the website page about the course, which is, mothering your daughter as she moves through all the ups and downs of puberty is an initiation for you too.

It can be lonely and bewildering. We want you to feel reassured for this journey so you can both support yourself and really be there for your child and I'd love to talk about how how we can prepare for the process you know we've named a few things like the the menarche work and looking at our own experiences and remembering that their experience might be different but yeah maybe we can talk a bit about how this course can help to resource you through this initiation yeah absolutely so we designed the course um to start off very much by um starting with you as the as the mother or as the parent

and what we tried to do all the way through it is just to reassure you that A, you're not alone and B, you can do this. The fact that you're even thinking, the fact that you're listening to this podcast just now and the fact that you're wanting to do this right and the fact that you want your child to have a good experience

means that you're halfway there or you're already doing it you know there's not much more you need to do and so it's just meeting yourself where you are I've just said that haven't before about me you know meeting your child where they are but meeting yourself where you are is the first step so you know that might be looking back to your own experience and that might be as simple as just doing some journaling and just remember back you know how was it when you started your periods what was it like maybe talking to your friends about it and hearing their experiences and just starting that conversation one of the things when you're starting out and you're you've got little children that can feel really daunting is that

we've got a lot of taboos in our in our society about talking about sex and periods and things like that so just you know simply remembering that territory yourself and starting some conversation with some friends will get you over that first hurdle if you feel awkward about it yeah you know you'll get it'll it'll get you over that hump of like oh periods are a bit weird you know if that's where you're coming from and just get you practice in it. So just like when you know, you have to start talking to your child about sex, it's really good to practice using the words, using all the words around sex and penis and vagina and all these different words, you know, that with your friends so that you can say them without feeling like you're going to try and swallow the words. It takes practice unless you are you are you know somebody who already works in

that field it takes a bit practice because we've got this you know bit of a hang up about it unless you know from you're from some countries where that isn't an issue because you know I've met women over the years who's who've come to workshops who are from Holland mostly who were like well this was never a big deal you know we don't have this as an issue and Australia actually a lot of the women I've met in Australia it's just not an issue you know certain parts of australia but then so cultural this as well isn't it like it's really important to remember that context of where we're from has a big impact yeah so if it's awkward for you then that's okay that's because culturally you've had a lot of very strong messages there's an awkward topic so you know

starting by being really reassuring yourself and gentle like it's okay this is hard and it's going to get easier but it's hard right now and that's okay you know I think it's really important to acknowledge where you are and where you want to be and then you know just gradually working your way towards that yeah so so the course is very much created with that in mind just to to kind of hold your hand as you go through it and then we build up into lots of different suggestions and ideas of how you can start preparing in general it's a really good thing to start with your own experience and see are there any things to deal with you know is there any unfinished

business that you you could do with looking at before your child really gets into menopause or if they're right in it and you're thinking why am I finding this so hard maybe look back to your own experience and think oh yeah actually that was really tough and can I get some help with that it could just be a conversation with a friend it might be as much as you know getting some therapy whatever is. And also you mentioned the Red School course, which is a self-study program. I'll drop the link to it in the show notes. And it simply guides you through an experience of processing your own menarche and actually reimagining it, re-envisioning it, which can be a really healing process in itself. Yeah, really healing and really powerful. And also something you can come to again and again.

So it might be something, you might have done this already and think, well, I've already done that. Why am I still feeling whatever? Or, you know, I've done that, but I would recommend to do that again. And then again, you know, each time we revisit revisit that we go down another layer and down another layer and again like we were saying before it's such a formative time in our lives that you know revisiting it a few times is never going to go this to give ourselves the honoring that perhaps we didn't get you know back then or even more honoring if we were on it in some way. So, you know, starting in that place, I think is just great for all of us, you know, whether we've got children

who are approaching adolescence or not. And also, you know, if you've got boys, if you've got a child who's not going to go through Menarche, then looking back at your own adolescent experience is still really, really valuable because they're going to be going through their own transition in whatever way that they go through it. So starting with you is always what I would recommend. And then when you feel like you're more resourced, then you can start looking at what practical ways

you can start preparing for yourself and for your child. Like what do you need to get in and what do you need to talk about and how will that will that happen and where where will you do it and how often you know there's all these different practicalities so we go through um lots of ideas and suggestions and things like that for that and then and then thinking about what you might want to do how you might want to support them when they actually start their periods you know what what that might look like and how will you have that conversation and what they might want and bearing in mind that what they might want if you start talking to them when they're nine or 10, might be very different when they do start their periods if it's a few years later.

So just keeping, more than anything, it's keeping the conversation going, just keeping it alive. I guess that's the great, another great thing about the menstrual cycle is your period is just going to keep coming back again and again and again. So you're going to have ample opportunity

for you know your you to be changing your pads or your period underwear or having a bath because you're bleeding and yeah absolutely and you know there will be I'm sure quite a few people listening who perhaps don't have periods because either they've had a hysterectomy or because they're on hormonal contraception that stops them having periods or something like that yeah and so if you're in that position you're like well how do I model because I don't have periods anymore there's still a lot that you could do there's still a lot you can still drop into conversation every now and then about it you can do practical preparation of you know how how what would you like talking to your child you know what would

you like to feel um prepared should we go and get you some pads should we go get you put you together a nice little pack and talking about your own experience when you were younger you know again if that was difficult maybe you talk about how your friends used to talk about it or funny stories about the crazy pads we used to have to use that were really uncomfortable and huge or you know there's lots of ways you can approach talking about how things were even if you haven't had periods for years that are still just normalizing the whole thing and have that again that conversation about privacy and secrecy and ask them what do they know what to do when they're at school and you know there's a lot of still conversations and things to be had and and also

in terms of modeling it's not just about when we're on our period is it we listen to our body all the time we have opportunities and invitations to listen to our body all the time so if that's you know i'm getting a bit of a headache i just need to go and look after myself i need to have an early night or a bath or sitting down having a rest when you're tired these ways that we are invited by our bodies to check in are numerous and it's really easy in our busy lives to run over the top of them. But all of that can, when our kids see us paying attention and listening and then acting on what we hear, it's such a powerful message. It's so powerful'm I'm thinking of how I'm trying to expand the way

I talk about my menstrual cycle awareness in our family because often I can accidentally put too much focus on look mommy's feeling stressed right now because she's on day 26 or like mommy's resting right now because I'm bleeding I'm trying to put my onus on yeah we can do that because I've got loads of energy today because I'm on day 13 there's lots of little gentle ways to bring it in so we're doing a live round of mothering your daughter through manhaki which is really exciting because then we can all be in a group going through this together so it's for people who are going through this right now or people who know it's going to be coming up sometime in the next few years or people that like work with people who have kids in this age it's an open space for anyone who is curious and

wants to learn about this to come and explore it together yeah very much so yeah um the course is built for some adults who has had periods but you could still perhaps look at some of the exercises, looking back at your own experience. You can adapt that to yourself. Otherwise, yeah, absolutely. Really excited about having a group of people going through this together, because I think that that makes such a difference then, because it gives you that incentive to get on and do the things because you're talking about your experience with the other people who are doing it at the same time and we have so much to learn from each other totally yeah we can share stories with each other about what's happening with yours and what did they say and how is this going and try things out and yes exactly yeah absolutely we're going to start on may the 2nd and we're going to run until the 20th of may we're going to have three live

sessions and then there'll be a circle, our online private space, which is called Circle, where we'll be able to connect with each other throughout. And yeah, I'm really excited for it. Yeah, me too. And also, you know, anyone who's perhaps listening,

who's actually enrolled on this course already, it'd be wonderful to have you there as well. So we haven't done this course live before. So if you've been doing it and maybe fell off the wagon or perhaps you've done it but you'd like to come and share your experiences or you've you've had it there but hasn't been the right time yet then do come along and join the live course as well it'd be really great to have you there too yeah yeah and we'll be sending you an email about how to join so yeah great thank you emily is there anything else that you'd like to you an email about how to join so yeah great thank you Emily is there anything else that you'd like to share in closing about how to support our daughters and our

children through this wild time I think just by really reiterating this idea that we start by resourcing ourselves and being really gentle, meeting ourselves where we are so that we can really meet our kids where they are and support and celebrate them as they go through. And also to know you don't have to do it perfectly. You know, there's no one right, perfect way to do this. It'll be very, very unique to you and your family and that just by being honest with yourself and and being gentle with yourself you know holding your own hand as you hold your children's then um you know you can do it you can do it really beautifully be fine thanks emily this has been so reassuring i don't even have a daughter and i feel reassured like my friends, I can tell. Actually, I'm an auntie to a niece.

And I said, oh, you know, I said to my sister-in-law, I would have loved a daughter. And she said, well, look, someone's going to have to tell Sarah about period. So I need to do this course and get ready. Thanks, Emily. I feel like this in itself has been such a wealth of resources and ideas and inspiration and I'm so excited to start the course thank you Emily thank you for everything that you shared today that's a pleasure thank you Sophie thanks for joining us today thanks for listening to podcast. Thank you for being part of the community that's gathering around the menstruality movement. If you'd like to join us for the live

round of Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche, we're starting at the start of May and you can find out more at redschoolonline.net and just look for the Mothering Your Daughter Through Menarche course. Okay, I hope you enjoyed this really looking forward to being with you next time and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm