The Menstruality Podcast - How to Navigate the Initiation of Menopause *Wise Power Series* (Alexandra & Sjanie)

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

In today’s conversation, we get practical, down-to-earth and real about the initiation of menopause and how on earth do we actually get through to the other side. Though,  as we explore, it’s much less about doing and much more about being. And we have five alchemical powers that can help us along the way. This is the in third our Wise Power series where Alexandra and Sjanie have been waxing lyrical, sometimes crying, and often laughing their way through the teachings of their new book Wise Power: Discover the Liberating Power of Menopause to Awaken Authority, Purpose and Belonging, coming out on September 20th. There’s a line in our new book, Wise Power: “Remember, it’s your birthright to have a dignifying and empowering menopause. Let’s begin to make that so.”Let’s begin to make it so, together, here, right now… We explore:- The five ‘alchemical powers’ that can help you navigate the menopause transition. - How to actully find ways to rest, when you aren’t able to take a menopause sabbatical year (that we deeply wish everyone could have!)- The post-menopause magic that can occur when you trust the creative arc of your life, where ‘life becomes your business partner’. Pre-order your copy of Wise Power: Discover the Liberating Power of Menopause to awaken authority, purpose and belonging here: https://www.wisepowerbook.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.school

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey there, thank you so much for joining me today. It's really hot here by the way so I've got all the windows open if you can hear birds tweeting and cars going past. We're still in the heat wave here as I'm recording this and it's such an exciting time at Red School. We are preparing for

the launch of this book that Alexandra and Sharni have been dreaming into for probably a decade now and I've been writing intensely for the past couple of years. Wise Power, Discover the Liberating Power of Menopause to Awaken Authority, Purpose and Belonging. And today's conversation is the third in our series about the book. And we're actually looking, we're getting practical now. We're looking at how to do this initiatory experience of menopause. Actually, when I say how to do, it's more about how to be through this transition. So we're looking at the five alchemical capacities. And we're going to explore what exactly what Alexandra and Sharni mean by alchemy here

that can support you to navigate this initiation into authority and purpose and power and belonging. This was a sleepy day one episode for me. So I'm a bit quiet and withdrawn and contemplative in this one. It was such a rich exploration I'm so excited to share it with you. Good morning Alexandra, good morning Sharni, how's it going with you two today? Well the only way i can say how i am is to tell you what cycle day i am it sort of says that oh i'll tell you what cycle day i am and what what's happening with the moon that combination sort of captures it for me so i'm day 25 and uh i'm very much end of cycle and it's full moon today.

And that combination just feels unfathomable is the word that comes through. It just feels unfathomable. I was saying to you this morning, I feel like a pelican. That's how I feel today. I feel like a pelican. And it's partly because pelicans are, in my mind anyway, very otherworldly. But they've also got this very surprising, like, large throat pouch. And I feel like all the words I have are sitting in this throat pouch

and sort of I might access them miraculously, but there are no guarantees. I feel bizarre. Yeah. How about you, Alexandra? My feeling is one of there's a focus to me. There's not a huge amount of energy in the tank. So I'm really holding myself in my lane and not dissipating the energy because the full moon can make me go, i know it's all right and it's hot

and you know kind of lose it a bit i'm actually bringing in a kind of disciplined presence here to sustain the energy i have and i am i'm actually feeling happy and good in myself. I mean, it's just such a joy talking about this. So I'm in my total lane, you know, talking and teaching about this work and engaging with you two. So it's just some feeling of just pleasure at the expertise I hold too, like resting in that authority. I'm really – it's lovely. Wow, that makes me think of the receiving power

that we're going to talk about later. You're receiving your own goodness and skills and capacities. That's great to witness. Yeah, and I'm beaming in from the cosmos of day one, feeling really, really good. I got to have a lie-in this morning, which is quite a rare occurrence in my life. And yeah, I'm feeling rested and connected

and there's nothing I'd rather be doing than talking to you two about this because this is a really exciting conversation. So to situate us, this is the third of our wise power summer series so we've been exploring the teachings and the stories and the goodness of this book that's going to be released on september the 20th wise power discover the liberating power of menopause to awaken authority purpose and belonging so a little note to you listener if you haven't listened yet the first in the series was why we need to change the cultural

story about menopause from a looming disaster to a time of of great awakening into power and authority and our second in the series was what to do when you actually find yourself in menopause and how to create the conditions and kind of get the ground underneath you for this almighty transition so we went through the six steps of the alessandra and sharni's menopause triage okay sharni's just put her sunglasses on. That's a sign she's departed. She is no longer present. I actually thought no one would notice. She is officially in the void now.

Here we go. Here we go into today's conversation, which is about how to navigate the initiation of menopause. So we're going to explore chapter 15 of Wise Power, which is the five alchemical capacities. And before we get into that, it feels important to talk about a couple of words here. We're going to use them a lot. And I think it's good to unpack them a bit which is initiation and alchemical so could you walk us into those words certainly so i'm going to describe how i inhabit that word initiation and how we illuminate that word within the book. It's about evolution. When you're getting initiated, you're going through an expansion of your being. So you are

moving from one state of consciousness within yourself, a kind of an identity you have held for yourself. And that identity is breaking down and you're being birthed into a new, more expanded identity. And to do that transition, you have to let go of or die to the person you have been to be able to step into the person that you are becoming and you know very clear examples of initiatory moments are moving from childhood into adulthood you know through puberty that puberty is a moment of, you know, surrendering one's childhood. Of course, you don't become an adult overnight. There's a whole transition phase. And of course, that's what menopause is. You're moving from a very particular consciousness that you've held during your menstruating years and a way of being and thinking and operating and you are stepping out of that and

birthing or stepping into a more expanded version of yourself but you take you do actually take with you you know you don't lose your the i the essence of who you are is is is traveling with you all the way through. There are certain identities you are going to slough off, but all the skills and talents you've developed, they stay with you. They're part of the pot of what you're going to use in your more expanded version of yourself. So an initiation is a life-death moment and it can happen to us actually when we go through any big life transition, for instance, the end of a relationship,

the end of a job that we had invested so much in. Yes, the end of a relationship or the death of someone or illness is an initiatory process. The thing that's really key when we talk about initiation is that it is on some level a life or death moment. And so what we mean by that is that you will face a challenge that could possibly feel insurmountable. It could feel like the end. And it's in the meeting of that challenge,

it's in the reaching of that precipice or that frontier in which something else in you is called forth that you need to mature or grow or find something something else in you needs to step forward in order for you to meet that challenge and it's in that and I'm going to bring the word alchemy in now it's in that alchemy that the transformation happens um so that that's really the kind of crux of it that there's this hot spot in initiation that uh can feel insurmountable so that brings us to the word alchemical and uh it's i love it when we use we use this term alchemical capacities we it's a metaphor because this practice of alchemy really was about turning lead into gold and what we mean when we use this term is, it's about the practice of these certain capacities that will allow

you to meet these frontiers, these edges in yourself and meet them in a way that allows transformation to happen. Meet them in a way that is almost calls in the grace calls in the magic calls in the power of menopause allows this process that you're in to carry you to this new frontier because that's the that's the thing isn't it alexandra there is i want to say like an inherent goodness in the process of menopause. There's an inherent intelligence. It is an experience that is ultimately inviting you to evolve.

But we need to have the skill and the capacity for that to happen. Yes, yes. You've described it beautifully, Shani. You know, initiation is about maturation. It's about growing up. And it has to involve a challenge that is so strong that it threatens your sense of self. That's it.

Yes. And your sense of self has to be punctured. And you will try, your ego will try all sorts of clever ways to... Protect itself, armor itself, try to outsmart it. From facing that wounding. Because it is a wounding. That's what it is, yes. It's a puncturing.

And that's the very uncomfortable bit. And it's about these alchemical capacities the skills if you like that you need the abilities you need to be able to meet that wounding and turn it into the gold of your becoming of your new becoming and i love yeah i love what shani said there the thing about alchemy is that there is this seemingly magical process to it because you're you're not drawing on something from before you're actually waiting for something to emerge it's about courting the emergent process. Yes, that's it.

That's really all these alchemical capacities that we're going to share with you. You'll notice none of them are about you doing anything or you making anything happen. They all have this quality of restraint and presence and receptivity. They're all about sort of widening the birth of you. Oh, that's a, I've just hit a really good pun there. Widening the birth as in the RTH of you and widening the birth of you. Yeah, they're all about widening the channel, the birth of you, so that the power of menopause can be realized, so that you can embody what we call this wise power. So that's what you said there is very beautiful, Alexandra,

because these capacities are not anything you would have done before. They aren't your usual. They are not your usual skill set. They're not your usual habitual ways of operating. They're not your usual defense mechanisms or coping strategies. They're very new. They're very new and they allow the emergent to happen. So they are skills that need to be practiced.

Let it be said, these are not things we all have in our back pocket you know they're disciplines they require a huge um inner discipline and as you practice them you kind of grow the discipline to be able to do it more it's a kind of virtuous circle really yeah yeah what i will say for those of you who have a menstrual cycle and are listening to this the practice of cycle awareness is actually training you in these alchemical capacities. So as we are describing them, you'll recognize how at certain places in the cycle, this is what's called for, you know, one or other of these capacities is what's called for. So we are all slowly tooling up for menopause through the practice of cycle awareness yeah cycle awareness is actually preparing us with these spiritual disciplines if you will so that when we do meet this frontier when we do face this wounding this puncturing this threat to ourselves we have uh we we know how to find our ground we know how to be with it and is it true to say that the other initiatory times in our lives have also schooled us

in these capacities absolutely absolutely yeah so for people in menopause right now who don't have that the cycle working in them yes they will have negotiated perhaps a number of those things that i gave you know yeah what i was thinking of as i was reading through the chapter in preparation for this and especially as we looked at the first alchemical capacity, which is holding the tension, which I feel we talk about all the time. It's such a big one. And what came up for me again,

and I hope it's relevant for me to share this, is the darkest time in my life, my biggest initiation so far, has been these four years of infertility and as I was reading the holding the tension section I was just so I was feeling how those years schooled me in this capacity to just be with myself in the shittiest darkest ugliest messiest most lost confused bereft states and it actually made it made meaning of them which i think is part of this gold isn't it this alchemy is it makes meaning of the shit

holding the tension for me is one of the most generative practices i know in everything I do. So what does it mean? What am I doing when I'm holding the tension? Because this is absolutely the number one thing when you're coming into menopause, when you've got a lot of erupting feelings going on and you don't know who you are anymore. The ground seems to go from under you. And, you know, up until then, you had, yeah, you knew who you were, you had a sense of mastery, you know, you were in charge of things. And then suddenly, the ground goes, and that certainty goes, that's the thing, certainty checks out. And you are now in transition. You know, our usual way of operating is to take charge, you know, and try and fix. And holding the tension is the complete opposite of that. It is to meet

this. It is to stay with the experience, to stay present to who we are with what's happening. And in essence, it's about trusting something. It's about trusting the disturbance. And because the disturbance is a sign of that you are going through a change and holding the tension is almost like the alchemical vessel, the holding vessel, the container you put around this experience because suddenly all ground and order is slipping away. But holding the tension is a form of containing or containering. it's a form of containering. And that's one thing, but there's something about one's willingness to stay with the unknown and to just meet what is coming up

as necessary for one's evolution. That alchemizes something, that magic eventually occurs. Things. You use the word meaning, meaning came to you. New insights emerge. It's like new thoughts about yourself new you can have actually quite charged and well in menopause this phase can be very ecstatic and charged too it isn't just about shit stuff because a lot of shadow stuff it's a huge amount of shadow stuff one's own shadows coming up but also you see the shadow of the world. And when you face all that, you could say, it's all shit. It's over. What's the point? And that is your ego opting out.

Holding the tension is daring to believe that something else is emerging. Of course, there's no guarantee. Yeah, daring to believe that there's meaning in this disturbance. I want to come back to this word initiation in light of holding the tension, because the way we know that we're entering an initiation or a time of potential growth and expansion is because the shit hits the fan, exactly what Alexandra was saying, because the ground goes from underneath us. So what holding the tension is, is, as Alexandra said, a way of meeting that as meaningful. And what holding the tension is not, and I think it's important to say what it is not,

because this is our default. When we are disturbed, when we're hurt, when we're feeling pain or discomfort, our default is to react. Our default is to go into the story of our pain, to like be, I believe they did this to me, blah, blah, blah, or to rant, to rage, to blame, to want to get out of it, to end it, to destroy it, to disconnect from it, all those things. And so if we think that initiation is this portal, this gateway, we often talk about an iceberg, like initiations like an iceberg. You sort of hit this tip of the iceberg, this disturbance. And either you can just paddle above the water and replay your usual patterns and habits and actions or you can see this disturbance as the entryway into the depth of the iceberg

and what holding the tension does is it takes you in to the process rather than keeping you outside of it and sort of at the effects of it. It takes you into this intimacy with yourself, into connection with yourself. That's this thing of being with the unknown. That's what's happening as you hang out in the unknown and you don't act. I think that's really important what Shani said there about it's not about the story and also it's not about suffering. It's not about because if

you're staying in the story you're staying in the suffering. It's such a radical act this and by the way if you only do this 5% of the time you're staying in the suffering it's such a radical act this and by the way if you only do this five percent of the time you're ahead i wanted to say that like let's normalize the fact that our egos yeah they've no no no no no no no no no yeah it's a practice it's a practice you catch yourself acting out reacting and then you catch yourself and you go hold on and you bring yourself back to yourself but but this is where you need a little bit of time and space. It's very hard to do when you're in the momentum of your life. You need to step out.

You need to have five minutes to sit alone, to just be with what's happening. Yeah, to be with, to be with. And I just also want to say, yes, of course you're going to rage and weep. And that's just, you have to do that. It's just inhuman. It's inhuman not to do it. You've got to. It's just, you know, if you're feeling heartbroken, you're heartbroken and you've got to weep.

And my goodness, rage is the top note, really, of what most experience. I see it over and over again with menopause. And it is such a clear sign you're waking up. So, yes, it is not to get stuck there, but to release the charge of it and then to come into presence with something other, you know, something more, something with the complexity of what's going on and the more you can have this time of being with it and allow just allowing yourself the experience of what's happening within you without reacting without going into the story but just really

naming for yourself yes this is happening is happening, that's happening. Yeah. It sort of opens you to the complexity rather than going into sort of either or. It really opens you to the complexity. That's the beginning of this expansion. That's the thing. You are actually now creating,

pushing back the walls of yourself and creating more space inside yourself for something more to come through from who you really are. This is the be-all and end-all for me of evolution, this capacity to move from this reactive mind to working with the emergent process. This is the baseline skill that we all have to cultivate.

Yeah. Holding the tension, holding the tension. I'm aware that as you're talking that the other four alchemical powers that we're going to explore next really support this process don't they so I'm going to read something from page 120 of wise power about alchemical power two which is surrender so you say just as holding the tension creates alchemical magic, so does surrendering. Who would have thought that giving in, resting, and generally doing nothing, or rather no longer pushing endless agendas, but instead allowing oneself to yield into one's actual state of being could prove so potent, but it is. Yeah, it's wild.

Yeah, it says it all. Yeah. Surrendering is a profound practice, and it's not about, it's about giving in. It's not about it's about giving in it's not about giving up you're giving in to the moment you're giving in to yourself and initially in the menopause transition it is probably giving in to just how you're really, really, really feeling. You have to just hang out for a while in the unknown. And these are chemical capacities. They take time. You know, I said that, you know, holding the tension is just one of the most

generative tools. But I have, I don't know when the new thought, the new idea, the new whatever it is, is going to emerge. I have to actually just hang out with the unknown. And it just feels like this situation is impossible. It's unfixable. And you don't know. There's no guarantee. There is absolutely no guarantee.

And I always have this joke about holding the tension. It's like playing poker with the universe. Who's going to fold first? Am I just going to give in in and go i'm quitting this game yeah it's hopeless the world's hopeless we're all going to hell in a handbasket you know there is this knife edge you walk or are you just gonna hold there and hold it and dare to believe there is something meaningful at work and surrendering is just a really good it's just really crucial in this next step of really

trusting the universe because really in that initial stage of menopause man you just want to shut down don't want to think you want to decommission your mind you want to decommission your body you just want to decommission everything you want to decommission everything. You want to decommission all responsibilities for everything. And just go, I'm done with this. Without saying it's over and it's you know, it's all **** It is just to give in. Wow. And of course, it's this profound act of rest and I love that image of winter. It just blows my brains every year.

The earth goes to sleep. Everything shuts down. It's just barren on the surface. You know, I'm thinking of the western seasons here. And then the unbelievable outrageousness of spring when it comes out of nowhere. Those first tiny, tiny shoots, tiny leaves, you know, those little buds. But also before that happens, there is always a moment where I think, is this winter ever going to end? Winter ever! There's always that moment where it just feels eternal.

Just when you're about to fold, it's like, bing, the first buds appear. This is part of this initiatory challenge that we're talking about, which is, we've used this word unknown a lot. It's a lot of unknownness, increasing restedness in the in the ending actually it really helps us with the letting go and the softening because it brings us into ourselves and helps us to feel safer. That's really the key. It is. That's so good what you've said, Sharni. I just can't emphasize that enough.

Am I right that this could be quite an internal process rather than necessarily going away for three months to a Greek island? I secretly want everyone to be able to have i do i don't secretly want i want i want everyone to get a menopause grant and they just get to do whatever they want with it and just have someone takes over their life for them they just get to go for a year and do whatever they need to do the sabbatical the menopause sabbatical or you know maternity leave the the menstrual leave yeah oh that would be my hydrate everyone going through menopause i mean that's in a way the prescription for menopause you know the ideal prescription and failing that we have these skills that we need to practice regardless of our life situation. Yeah. Right. So this surrendering is an inner capacity,

which has to do with how we relate to ourselves and our lives. It has to do with how we operate in a different way, where we drop our agenda and we drop our usual speed and mode of doing things. And we choose to hang out more than we do to do more you know we shift from productivity to sort of receptivity so it is very much a skill it is you're sort you go into kind of cruise control and we talk about the art of snudging, which is the art of doing as little as possible, but still meeting, you know, what you're supposed to be doing, let's say at your work or whatever. But you lower your standards, you just lower your standards. You know, I have to say, women in particular can be,

we are particularly strong at perfectionism and, you know know needing to feel always that we have to be more more more more when in fact what we're doing already is enough enough enough so you really discover the enoughness and it's just a way of thinking you hold for yourself and and we talk about one of the superpowers of menopause is this no this no it's so fabulous the no it just comes out of nowhere and it's no to everything and that helps you that helps you i'm just going to pause the conversation briefly and jump in here and say that wise power is now available for pre-order which is so exciting you can order your copy today at wisepowerbook.com the book's coming out on september the 20th we've got a range of

really exciting book launch events coming up you can find out all about it when you pre-order the at wisepowerbook.com. You talked about, I think, an atmosphere of receptivity here, which brings us to our third alchemical power. I mean, we could do a whole episode on each one of these, couldn't we? Or more? We could. I'll move us along to this third alchemical power which is receiving and you share in the book now that you've perfected the art of surrendering and opened some hidden doors you must actually allow yourself to receive what's coming through receive the possibilities coming up or towards you and as with surrendering this can be strangely difficult to do yes we're sort of at the epicenter of the challenge of initiation we're at the epicenter so the initial thing was this huge disturbance and the holding the tension kind of brought us

into some sort of holding you know some sort of holding, you know, some sort of containing process where we could start to surrender, to let go. And above all in that surrender, surrendering just simply to rest, to do nothing, to just come right out of that pushing gear. And the act of those previous two capacities what i'm going to go back to that image i had earlier of it's it's actually one it's opening up the inner territory within us and it's also kind of loosening the soil of our psyches you know that's what's going on the sort the in the initiation is breaking us up on the inside and loosening all the soil and that surrendering is resting above all just deepening into ourselves it is a deepening process surrendering deep so so we're getting broken down so all armoring and everything is being taken away and we are being made

undefended we are being you know all the armoring say and we are being exposed now we this is this is so key this you have it's first of all you have to go through this breaking down process to be exposed you are being exposed so you're exposed to the shit first that's all the shadow stuff and then eventually you kind of get through that and the surrendering is this deepening deepening deepening and now you're in a place of uh really like wow almost naked well who am i wow and you're very very tender and vulnerable oh my god is this the most powerful of places but can you hear how crucial it is to have safety and protection here and why you know people are just going crazy at menopause because there's no holding. There is no safety.

There is no time and space. And because what's happening is they're being dismantled and exposed to who they truly are. Oh, my God. But the power in this, this is the conception moment of the new you happening because you are birthing a new you and you have to just keep holding the tension and surrendering you don't abandon those previous capacities now each one that comes along is being added so you keep the whole package so now we've got three in the bag here. The third one is this receiving, just receiving. The gem here, the real gem here is you get this kind of knowing about who you are. You may not have words for it, but there's a sense almost of, Shana used that word grace, but a feeling of coming into maybe I'm okay after all. I'm not shit. I'm not rubbish. Maybe I'm all right and that my life is possibly meaningful. This is such a radical moment and

this is the gift of menopause and I just want to weep and weep and weep and weep here at the power and beauty of what menopause is wanting to deliver us to, which is this recognition of ourselves as okay. This is the central task of menopause, is to recognize your own goodness in the face of all this failures yes you've done you've had major cock ups in your life you you know but actually you're okay and you've got to receive that you've just got to let yourself receive the recognition of your own goodness. Yeah, when we talk about this alchemical capacity of receiving, we talk about sort of just consciously titrating your own goodness,

so consciously letting in more and more of your own goodness, consciously recognizing who you are and your okayness. It's too much to ask that we can receive ourselves all at once. I'm still doing it now. You never stop. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You never stop.

But there is the access changes in yourself where you can no longer abandon yourself. This is what you're being asked to do. You're now being asked to fully claim yourself, warts and all, and no longer abandon yourself. And we write about this in great detail in the book, because it is the central piece of menopause for me. I love what you say, because it sounds, Alexandra, like there's this tipping point that happens at this threshold in menopause that tips you onto this good ground with yourself from which there's no coming back. Yeah, you just can't come back from that. You're on this good ground with yourself

and you have to keep caring for that ground post-menopause. Yeah, because, you know, you step out with your new mission, your new work or whatever, and of course you're going to meet all sorts of challenges. You've got a whole new chapter of living and loving ahead of you post-menopause. It could be the most productive and creative time of your life it is for me and imagine that imagine a world of women and people post-menopause who aren't able to abandon themselves because this has been thoroughly worked in them imagine and there's you know what comes with that because I spoke of arrogance earlier humility I mean menopause teaches you

about humility like nothing else actually I have to say just getting older that's that just saying and that kind of is the antidote to narcissism narcissism yeah and and and it's a vital thing to go along because you have this huge power that you hold post-menopause. And you can always, you can still abuse power. Wise power, you come in to experience this undefended place and recognizing your own goodness. And in the book, you shared a couple of quite practical things here. Like, firstly, to practice letting the good feelings in. To practice when you feel something good, taking time to, oh yeah, it feels good.

And the other thing you shared was to let compliments in from others. Yeah. Which I've got a group of brilliant post-menopausal women in my life who taught me this practice. I mean, they were going through menopause when they taught me it. So they were already working this, which is when someone compliments you to say oh I know I know

and it's it's so hard to do but they were really working it yes yes recognizing yourself yeah yes as I always say there's no false modesty post-menopause get it you know no no don't don't pull that one anymore claim who you are and what you are yeah yeah okay so we've had our first three alchemical powers of holding the tension, surrender and receiving. And the fourth power is the power of presence. And I'll walk us into this one with a quote from, this is from page 121. Just as we have to learn to inhabit the great change our bodies go through in adolescence and matrescence. So we do at menopause. At first, your body may feel unfamiliar. You might want to reject or disassociate from it. Presence is a way of familiarizing yourself with your changed biochemistry and the new configuration

of your nervous system. You're learning to inhabit yourself more easily within this new infrastructure becoming friends with your new self it's good it's very very good so we've turned the corner so to speak we're on new ground in ourselves and we've come into a new alignment. So we're coming into a whole new organization within our bodies, but there's a whole new psychological alignment within ourselves. We are being reworked psychologically and spiritually. And that cementing moment of our own goodness kind of really clocks, locks something and starts to lock something into place. And we are now a

clearer channel for what it is we're here to serve in the world. So our calling, it can really get unleashed very strongly at menopause. Now, we may already have a sense of that coming into menopause, or you may not. But at menopopause something is going to start talking to you you may you know maybe that word calling uh is too grand a word for you but just what is really important for you what really floats your boat what you're passionate about suddenly you'll be pumping with stuff but it will be big because you see the thing about menopause is you move you step into serving the world you move from it being about you and your personal agenda and that's very important to do that by the way that's crucial you've got to establish who you are your identity and so on and you know you're

caring for family all that sort of stuff. And menopause, the whole kind of transformation of menopause moves you from that world into something much bigger, serving something much bigger. So you're really stepping into what I would call your world work. That sounds so grand. And you may look at the small thing that you're doing over here on your little patch of the planet and go, how's this serving the world? You have no idea how crucial what you're passionate about in your little patch of metaphorical or literal land that you inhabit and are caring for the crucialness of that. And it's very important to recognize that. So some of us are stepping into very big stuff out there in the world others are doing much more intimate subtle work but however we frame it

strong things are going to come through and you have to be present you have to be at home to receive it to receive the charge because the charge is big the charge, because the charge is big. The charge is huge. The charge could blow the fuses. Yeah, what's interesting here in terms of challenge is through that sort of death process and the healing that you go through in menopause and the letting go of your old identity and old ways of being you are more boundless you are you have expanded part of the self-recognition that happens is that you are inhabiting a bigger consciousness a bigger aspect of you and that as as alexandra says holds more charge more can come to you and through you which means you have more responsibility

to stay present because if you want present that charge can be um misused. Not wise power. Unwise power. Unwise power. Unwise power. So this practice of presence is about you staying with the expanded place that you're in, staying in that expanded field, staying in that emergent place of possibility what you're saying there shiny makes me say being present keeps you close to yourself to the good aligned complete

yeah that's really good what you've just been saying yeah yeah it's that ongoing work of staying aligned yeah and staying present it's it's very much to do with staying embodied and awake yeah and in the book you talk about ways of practicing this like bringing more space and silence into your day moving slowly noticing your breath engaging with sensory experience and attuning to stillness and you say they're all important touchstones in presence yeah you've got to have empty space and time for yourself you've just got to have that stillness and uh i mean for all those things haven't you just have to have space to feel yourself first yeah yeah what do we do in this world where so many

people are just trying to find space what if we do you know i just hear it so much all the time i wish i had more space i wish i had more time stillness stillness for one minute i kid you not i know i was thinking of you yesterday yesterday Sophie you were in the void and there was you'd been through this really charged moment you know clearing everything up in preparation for your preparation for your bleed you'd been so productive it was hilarious and then we were having this meeting and you were suddenly scrambled by you know where you've been so clear and you'd ordered everything and you've been a genius actually sorting all the plans out and then you suddenly got completely scrambled and everyone because you were really just about to bleed weren't you i mean because you did at the

night and um and shani said what did you say just stop or slow down just we were in a meeting i think what i said was i think you asked how to deal with that sort of overwhelm and i think i said is to just focus on one thing that's right and this is the thing about the practice of presence it actually doesn't require your life to change it requires you to just be in the moment because there is stillness there is ease if we're just with the thing that we're with and that's the thing about the practice of presence yeah yeah okay let's move on to the fifth one the final one which is the alchemical power of pacing. And you say, you pace what your own nervous system can tolerate and see that that's enough. You pace your actual energy and emotional resilience,

rather than trying to keep pace with the speed of your mind, which tends to run on shoulds and oughts and generally moves too fast i know that one and you pace a larger invisible timing within which you're held i really love pacing it really comes into its own when you're coming out of you know feeling like you're emerging from menopause and the thing is when you feel like you're through the worst of menopause and you're feeling kind of the goodness coming in and you're sort of feeling like this chi to get going, you're still very vulnerable here.

And also, for you to do the work you are here to serve, you've got to stay close to yourself. Because menopause is this lovely bubble you've been in lovely i want to say lovely folks it's this lovely bubble you've been in and you'll leave it it's a it's like a protective scheme around you you know cocoon and you're leaving that so you've been protected at some level from the pressures of of of the world because menopause does give you this sort of certain buffering it's weird yeah a lot like bleeding it's not like bleeding you just sort of yeah you care less you care less you drop into

something and then there's that moment where you feel like you're emerging from your bleed it's the same with menopause on a grander scale you're emerging from menopause and um you're a bit vulnerable you're and and you're kind of new and you've got you're now going to kind of test yourself out in the world and if you let your mind and the world timing come in because you you are much more susceptible to it now it's very easy to get organized by outer timing when i say well i mean outer timing and that's the royal route to losing yourself completely losing yourself and pacing is this just as you've read from that quote it's actually brilliant but but what it does is if i may say so yes I may say so that was brilliant writing you are in the act of pacing you are trusting the dignity of you I haven't said it like

that before you're actually really trusting the integrity and dignity of you. I haven't said it like that before. You're actually really trusting the integrity and dignity of who you are. And you're also trusting the unknown. Because you've had, you've now, I mean, when I came through menopause, I mean, I had, I was pounding with the bigness of this menstruality work. Yeah, this is the thing I just want to acknowledge. Thanks for bringing that in, Alexandra, because I wanted to say at every stage of initiation, there is a challenge. And, you know, coming towards the end of menopause, the challenges we've described,

you have had this revelation of who you are. You feel so much better about who you are. You've filled with your own goodness. You feel fine. You've had inspiration and're real you've had inspiration and ideas and you've been creatively charged you've hopefully had time to rest so you've been restored and renewed so you are as you said alexandra pounding with possibility and potential it is so much charge in your system you've basically been plugged in to you know this deeper life force in

you um and you know and now the challenge is to not let urgency come in or your own sort of pressure or as alexandra said the world's kind of timing um and to feel all has to happen now that's it and not to let your mind it's mind, it's the mind that will easily just snap back because your mind has been sort of shut down for a while. It just kind of loses its mojo. I love that. Just gets completely decommissioned, undone. And you sort of go into,

how am I going to do this? An anxiety could come in your system. How am I going to do this? You've could come in your system how am I going to do this you know you've got this great how to save the world plan and I you do is just little you and this thing of pacing of just doing the next thing that's there, the next thing that's there, and trust. Trust is implicit. Trust in the dignity of yourself and trust that you're, this is really important, trust that you're actually being held by something. You're actually being held by your calling. And I have to say, that was the thing I had because I made that radical decision to leave Australia

and give up being a psychotherapist and come back to the UK where, you know, I had no work. I had nothing. I just had this pounding vision in me, you know, to just do this menstruality work. But there was no infrastructure, nothing. There is nothing in the UK except my one little workshop at Alternatives. Bless Alternatives in London.

One thing led to another. And the thing is that magic gets to work. Can I just say, when you pace, you are pacing the timing of the universe. The universe is your new business partner, and you're pacing your own nervous system and so on, and you're pacing the universe's timing. Yeah. And that's the goal, is that life starts working for you instead of you having to do all the work.

I mean, that's post-menopause magic, isn't it, Alexandra? You are, it alexandra you are it's not just you operating lone wolf it's you are in cahoots i love it like life is your business partner you know you see i had no shani in my life i had none of that it was just little old me and you know and all these magic things occurred to support me because, you know, I had life employed me first. Life hired me. Yeah, yeah. Life, the universe had to capture. On creating to create Red School.

I did all of that. Branding, naming. Actually, you know, even how the name Red School came about. You know, one of my daughter's friend's mother, she named Red School. It was life. It was life. And it's a fabulous art pacing. And it rests on all the previous capacities. So these five work together magnificently and then and then what you're doing is you're releasing the goodness that's there inherent in menopause and that goodness is your sort of new vessel going forwards because

because you don't have your menstrual cycle sort of directing things anymore. And you're now trusting the great cycle of life. You're trusting the creative arc of your spiritual calling, of who you are and what you're here for. I know those are very grand terms. And some of you listening might think, yeah, I don't have that. I tell you, you do have have something you absolutely have something i want to say this so fiercely and it may be that you're out of situation you're doing sort of the same thing as you did before menopause and we share a lovely story in the book about this actually but suddenly you you discover the meaning behind

everything that you're doing that wakes up for you and that becomes this um energy or motivation within you that you know moves you with what you're doing honestly you will feel something is unleashed in you yeah what a journey so it's interesting as you've taken us through these five alchemical capacities you've also been hinting at the five phases of menopause which accompany these capacities it's like you've taken us on this journey I wanted to say for the listener that that's where the book goes next is into a deep dive of each of these five phases of menopause which I imagine we'll do a podcast about each of them one day yes and and in our um online program this is what we do we actually go through most of these five phases of menopause

and uh and really get into you know the the nitty-gritty of what it would feel like what you might experience how to negotiate it what the self-care practices are we get very detailed don't we yeah and it's amazing in the great awakening because people are coming in all kinds of different places in the menopause process. Some people focus menopause, some people in the build up, some people in each of the different phases. And when people go, yes, that's been my experience or yes, I recognize that. It's wonderful to hear everyone learning from each other. Yeah. And then they come back a second year to do it and get a deeper level of it.

Because, of course, menopause happens over a number of years. You know, the menopause transition, as we described it in menopause happens over a number of years you know the menopause transition as we described it in the book happens over a number of years so you get ongoing access to to the great awakeness so you get to do the exercises again and the exercises keep on giving they are gold those are yeah and also for people who aren't in menopause all the things we describe are practices and skills that you can start working with now. So people find that getting the heads up is really helpful. Yeah. And speaking of that, because reluctantly I've got to pace the hour hour container of the podcast, which we've already gone over. But that's great because we've been talking about good stuff but in my dedication to that we will close now but speaking of the people who are

you know aren't in menopause yet our next part of this series is about what you call the quickening yeah which is these years in the run-up to menopause and how to be in them yeah how to prepare for menopause set yourself up for a good menopause yeah so we've all got all of that to come so thanks you two this has been epic thank you sophie thank you very much sophie ah i am learning so much from this series i hope it's inspiring for you I hope you enjoyed this and I hope you'll tune in for our next in our series coming up in two weeks all about the quickening about perimenopause about how to prepare for menopause and before then I really want to ask you a favor which is to go onto apple podcasts and subscribe to the podcast

and also leave us a review especially if you're loving it because it'll really help us reach more people with this podcast that would be great thank you so much okay i will see you next week for our next episode and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm