The Menstruality Podcast - Menopause is a Spiritual Awakening (Alexandra & Sjanie)

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

Today’s conversation follows a powerful idea that woke Alexandra up in the early hours a few days ago. It’s the idea that drives our new menopause book, Wise Power, and it’s an idea that’s almost totally missing in the global menopause conversation...... We need to dignify menopause as a process of spiritual awakening. And it’s a very special episode, because it also marks the official release of Wise Power, which is now available wherever books are sold - you can get your copy at wisepowerbook.com.We explore:The spiritual union, or coming home to yourself that is possible at menopause, when we honour and dignify every aspect of menopause; the rage, the confusion, the challenge and dare to believe it’s meaningful. The role that rage plays in the spiritual awakening of menopause, particularly in the initiatory times we’re living in as a global community. The five phases of the menopause spiritual awakening, and how perimenopause, or the ‘Quickening’ prepares us for this great homecoming to ourselves.  You can now pre-order our new book! Wise Power: Discover the Liberating Power of Menopause to Awaken Authority, Purpose and Belonging here: https://www.wisepowerbook.com---Registration is now open for our live menopause course - Menopause: The Great Awakener. You can take your seat here: https://www.redschoolmenopause.com---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.school

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Welcome back to the Menstruality Podcast. I'm with Alexandra and Sharni today talking about an idea that woke Alexandra up in the early hours of the morning a few days ago. It's actually the same idea that drives their new menopause book, Wise Power, and it's actually the same idea that drives their new menopause book wise power and it's actually an

idea that's almost totally missing in the global conversation about menopause which is that we need to dignify menopause as a process of spiritual awakening and it's a very special episode today because it also marks the official release of wise power which is now available wherever books are sold and you can get your copy at wisepowerbook.com and if you'd like to explore this journey of menopause being a process of awakening and homecoming to yourself, in this episode we share some of the ways that we're expanding this conversation here at Red School. Firstly with our upcoming free Wise Power Retreat which is coming up in October where we'll share intimate

menopause conversations that Alexandra had with some incredible people. We can't wait to share these conversations with you. And secondly, with our live menopause online course, Menopause the Great Awakener, which starts at the start of November, but more about that soon. In today's episode, we're looking at the spiritual union that's possible at menopause. We look at the role that rage plays in this spiritual awakening and we walk through the five phases of the menopause initiation and how perimenopause, or the quickening, prepares us for this great homecoming to ourselves.

Good morning you two. This is such a special day i've got my copy of wise power in my hands this beautiful book is finally being published tomorrow which once people are listening will be tuesday um and will be available wherever books are sold. What a feeling. What a feeling. What a feeling. What a feeling. Wow. That takes me back to my days of passionate love with Flashdance,

the movie. What a feeling. That's exactly what I was thinking. And, you know, we've been flashdancing. We've been a hive of activity this month haven't we especially you two preparing for the launch of this gearing up for the the live annual menopause course which is going to be more full and big and beautiful than ever this year and for this special online retreat that we're hosting the wise power retreat so you've been interviewing some of my you know heroes and biggest guides of my life

lynn twist founder of the pachamama alliance sharon blackie the author of if women rose and her new amazing menopause book amishishade Bernie Scott, the creator of the Black Girls Guide to Surviving Menopause, you know, it's been a busy month. And in today's conversation, what we were thinking is to follow a thread that actually woke Alexandra up in the early hours the other morning, which is the thread that drives this whole book that's going to drive the you know has always driven the course that will drive the wise power retreat and it's a thread that is almost totally missing in the global conversation about menopause which is that menopause needs to be dignified it needs to be dignified so Alexandra I just I would love to hear what what it was that woke you up in the early hours and what it was that you were with

the the feeling that I had when I woke up was was that I was not in ordinary time-space reality. I was just, I wasn't out of myself. I was just in this lovely stillness and spaciousness. And I just felt so intensely and vividly. I was actually really sort of moved by the utter necessity of dignifying menopause itself but that each person going through menopause feels dignified and the reason for that is I was just very very very alive to the spiritual awakening of menopause and it is ever

more graphic for me as I get older and look back because I have a perspective on menopause now that I did not have in the same way when I was actually in it I can really feel and sense and see the gestalt of what is meant to be happening at menopause, but has been totally lost or trashed or dissed or something. And for that bigness that I was feeling into that spiritual awakening I realized the crucialness of this word dignity that one should feel and I actually felt this coming into men force I felt readied for it and I felt a certain dignity at work that now you know now I have this greater perspective it's really lovely so it was something was implicit there that had grown out of my cycle awareness

practice but that wherever anyone is at with this regardless of your experience because some people's experiences are very extreme whilst others are actually almost want to say quite mild well in terms of symptoms you know physical symptoms but whatever your experience this crucialness of turning to yourself and dignifying yourself no one else can do this no one else will do this for you but I hope that this book can really herald something very very different around how we approach menopause and how we how we view menopause but also how we meet approach those going through menopause.

Have you always known that this was the core thread of the book, this awakening, this dignity? Probably not something I could put into words. But I tell you one thing that I think I have always known. It's always been with me, but I've never, I haven't it's only really I fully declared it in this book dared to declare and give it a whole chapter but it's been my secret thing even when I've been teaching metaphor you know metaphors workshops and so on and on this greater way and of course I've never really named, which is that I believe it's about spiritual union. Actually, yeah, that you are, you know, at menstruation, you get this moment, a potential possibility of experiencing union where you are totally kind of disarmed as you come into menstruation, exposed to the cosmos, I always used to say.

And in that moment, there is this extraordinary, exquisite possibility of union with the beloved. And I'm going to say it very publicly now, and it's said in the book, which is that I believe that menopause is the spiritual impetus, the spiritual meaning, or the home that menopause is wanting to drive us towards, or lead us towards, or unfold us towards, is this experience of union with the beloved oneness i have actually always known that and now i've said it let's explore this because i know the word spiritual union and union with the beloved means something to me they obviously mean a great deal to you and they mean a lot to me. But if they're not the words that people use, let's talk about what you're pointing to here.

That's such a good question, Sophie. I can put it like this. It is finding yourself and in that moment of finding truly seeing yourself and truly getting yourself it's so beautiful you it's a knowing actually in your head I mean it's a thought but it's actually a feeling in your being of oh wow this is who I am. And because menopause strips you of everything, all identities, and this is necessary. This is how you get to this place.

And you come into this exposed place where you are utterly exposed to yourself. And there's this how something happens and you feel yourself you discover yourself you know yourself you go yeah this is who I am it's it's a feeling of relief and in that moment of kind of knowing yourself you come into what i call spiritual union with well i i mean if you don't have this spiritual language or if you don't have spiritual beliefs this may sound a bit strange but with the one you know the beloved the divine a sense of knowing i can put it very basically it is knowing you are okay just as you are that's the simplest and clearest way you're okay after all

i love it when you say that every time you say that I'm like oh god I'm okay fuck a few because most of the time it doesn't feel like I am and I'm really present to something you always say to Alexander which I think all the time which is the death part of the death and rebirth process you know you speak about menopause as a death and rebirth process, just feels like death. You're not like, oh, this is great because although I feel crap, I'm going to be reborn soon. So everything's fine. You feel like you're dying. And I know that I know there will be people listening to this conversation who are in because I've been talking to them in my conversations on the podcast. And you've been speaking with and you know from your work that there will be people who don't feel OK right now.

And that's why this dignity word, you know, when you left that voice message in the early hours of the morning and you were saying we need menopause to be dignified. All of it. All of it. All of it. All of it. All of it. All of it all of it all of it all of it all of it all of it absolutely all of it it's so and there's no you know this don't look don't compare yourself with anybody else there's no rights or wrongs here we've all come we all arrive at menopause with our very singular stories of our lives. Some of us have had easier lives. Some of us have much more challenging lives. There's much, you know, more, there's been trauma or abuse, whatever.

Some people are just more resourced, you know, have privilege of resources and others don't. And some people just have the luck of the draw with genes, you know, good health. So we are all a very, each one of us has a very singular mix of things in us. And we all have different callings. We've all come serving different things. And it's just so important not to judge the place you are in. If you remember nothing from this conversation today, if you're listening right now, remember this. Do not judge the place you are in. Turn and meet it. And I want to say, dare to trust your menopause, dare to lean in to menopause, that there is meaning at work. And that's what the book is serving. The book is a place you can go to that's going to hold you. Literally, we didn't, when we were writing this book, Shani, I'd love to bring your voice in, Shani.

It feels I've been talking too much. When we were writing this book, we had such a powerful feeling or image, didn't we, of the book holding people through each stage of the process of menopause, especially those dark hours. Yeah, I have tears because, by the way, you're not talking too much. I could just sit back and listen to you.

It's so beautiful hearing you speak. And the thing that's moving me, Alexandra, is I realize when you talk about how important you feel it is that menopause is dignified, I realize that has everything to do with how we trust what's happening to us especially when it seems or feels untrustworthy oh my goodness yeah it's like in those moments when all has failed you, there is this, I guess it's a choice. This is what you're saying, isn't it, Alexandra? There's a choice that we all have to honour and respect the experience we're having.

It's like a daring, isn't it? It's a profound daring. It's a profound daring. And you're right, when we're writing this book, as you know, Sophie, we, as part of our kind of creative process with the book writing, we create a prayer for the book that we read often, sometimes before we write

or whenever there's an important moment happening with the book, which reminds me, we're reading it tomorrow. We are reading the prayer tomorrow! And that prayer is very strong and a big part of that prayer was that this book would be a presence a friend a companion so in those moments of darkness and confusion and lostness it's like you can reach out your hand and even though there's nothing physical to hold on to you will touch into the meaning that's at work or just there'll be this warmth and reminder of the process that you're in of and of the necessity of that and I know I was joking with my friend on the weekend, Abby, who's one of our incredible mentors at Red School. I was saying to her, she had the book out and she was showing it to a few people who were with us and I said to her, I said, the thing that I'm so excited about is that when I get to

menopause, this book will be there for me, because I am going to be reading it when I go through menopause, because I am in a need to hear, I am going to need to hear every single thing that is written in this book, even as I have written it. It's like we need to imbibe this remembering so that we actually can find that daring to dignify the experience we're having. I'm looking forward to reading it when the time comes. I mean, I read it all the time anyway. But Sharni, let's speak about this because you are in what you describe as the quickening. That's where you are in your menopause process.

It's courting you and i know there are people listening who are in the quickening phase two or some refer to it as perimenopause and in a nutshell could you speak to how the quickening process is building up towards this awakening this initiatory process in menopause ah yes i'm going to speak to a thread that's very alive in me at the moment there are lots of things i could say about this but the bit that's with me at the moment Sophie is some I'm really aware of how endings whether they're we're right up in them or they're kind of on the horizon like there's a looming ending in sight when there's an ending in our kind of field of awareness. It really does something to our system, to our psyche, to our body and being. Anyway, that's the experience I'm having. I can sense over there on the horizon, there is this end to my menstruating years and there is this end to the kind of identity that I'm inhabiting now. And part of the process

I'm going through is this very slowly dawning realization, actually I should say these very many slowly dawning realizations of the resistances I have in my system, or the places where I'm kind of not willing to be myself, or the places that i'm running from it's it's just this slowly dawning realization and it's um it's incredibly uncomfortable we've had we've had versions of this conversation before because as the reality dawns the feelings of discomfort that are wrapped in that surface and I guess now more than ever I feel the responsibility to meet those feelings rather than run away from them or rather than perpetuate the resistance or the denial or the delusion. And I feel I must, you know, that's that urgency we speak of in the quickening. I feel I must rise to the occasion and keep stepping up.

And Alexandra and I talk about this theme a lot, which is very much a theme of menopause and certainly like a growing theme of in the quickening is that, you know, the buck stops with you. You know, we can keep blaming other people. I can keep making someone else's fault or wishing someone will save me, but ultimately it's my work to do, it's mine to claim, it's me. Yeah, so that's, that's, yeah, that's the workout that's happening for me, and just on this theme of dignity, again, because, you know, it can feel very kind of shitty at times i'm getting to practice going you know this isn't just shit for shit's sake i'm just not shit it this is meaningful this is meaningful like i'm in a process you know i'm in something yeah i'd love to come in here i'm feeling something quite strongly shani didn't say this

but this is something i really observe which is positive shani it's not about you resisting the interesting thing i see about the quickening and i see it in shani is how her bigness is becoming bigger her authority is showing through and how and what that means for me in engaging with her because she's flexing her muscles as she should and it's like actually you too Sophie I could feel you know because you're a year or two younger than Charlie aren't you but I can feel this your 40s are really about claiming something and relishing something and it's you know I often talk about this healthy egoic strength of cheer and I'm on top of things and I can do things and a muscularity but just real like bigness

it's and I never can I say I can feel it Sharni you know we've talked about it haven't you yeah and I could feel your push back with me I mean you've always pushed back because that's how we push back that's how we create through that touch it but I can feel this kind of musculature and also I can really I get what your talents are now in a way I mean your sort of spiritual talents I mean I've always known your kind of everyday tell us but the kinds your kind of spiritual forces this kind of spiritual architecture of you sort of really i haven't said this before but it's really kind of waking up and that's what you want to

really i mean you're inside it you can't name it but but to really respect yourself you know bring this mindfulness and that coming up against your resistances is crucial because of the strength your psychological strength because that's what you need to be able to handle this spiritual energy otherwise you'll just end up being a shit you know basically um you know facing the shadow is just everything here. And of course, this is the kind of work you're going to be doing through menopause, but it is of a different order, I want to say. Because, you know, people reading our book, Wise Power, they read about menopause and they're in their 40s, their late 40s,

and they're reading it. Oh, yeah, yeah, I know all this. I've been doing all this. Yes, you have. I hope you have. But just let me tell you menopause is different and you will know when you are in menopause because it is an initiation of extraordinary potency and for that potency to be activated you have to do some really serious, serious inner work. And I want to name two conversations I had that were just so electrifying on this Wise Power retreat. One was with Jane Hardwick Collins,

who is this wonderful shamanic teacher, lives in Australia for people who don't know her. And she was a midwife for 30 years and she's been imbued in this menstruality work, you know, all her life. And she's given birth, she's had three children. And she said in the interview that menopause was harder than giving birth because I haven't given birth. So I don't know. But coming from her, I was like, wow, because giving birth because I haven't given birth so I don't know but coming from her I was like oh wow because giving birth is wow respect is all I can say you two have both done it that it was harder than giving birth and she had to do inner work like she had never done before. And she's outside menopause now, she's at the other side,

and she is just in such a powerful place. It was such an incredible conversation, especially with her talking about her post-menopause powers. It's worth it just to hear her talk. I mean, it was so much fun talking with her about that. It was very powerful and i just want to add one other piece which i think is really relevant and that all her experiences of giving birth had prepared her oh yes for menopause in just the same way that our menstruating our time of bleeding prepares us for menopause so it's really good to kind of know that piece too which I think she spoke of very powerfully and is it true to say say for those who haven't had children that's not been part of their path that the initiatory moments in life say losing a loved one or an

illness or a bereavement that those initiatory times are preparing us for menopause in the same way there's an imprint inside them that will be reflected in the menopause process. Absolutely Sophie but I also want to add that your menstrual cycle each menstrual month you're tutored in it you get a profound tutoring through menstruation every month but for those who have actually given birth to children um jane hardwick collins sort of summary of that i'm glad you remind me of that johnny because her summary was just so neat and good it was she was priceless listening it was great and then the other conversation with was with Arda, and she is the founder of Awakening Women. She's a most beautiful spiritual teacher.

I mean, I loved listening to her speak. And she spoke so honestly about herself. It was so moving. And she spoke about, I think, did she use the word brutal? She did, yeah. Because she experienced a lot of trauma in her childhood. And, you know, she had gone on this spiritual journey as soon as she left home, basically, and became a spiritual teacher.

And so, in a sense sense had sort of kind of worked with that trauma at that level but at menopause she was called into an inquiry with herself that was brutal in her words and she used very strong words about the depths she had to go to the things she had to face but here was the really exquisite thing about this you see because the depth of what you're having to meet has a counter presence of the power and the possibility and the love that is possible they they are in kind of equal measure you know that to to feel that union you know you when you feel the darkness and face the darkness within you you are building the muscularity the psychological

capacity then to hold the bigness of the spiritual forces and she spoke of having a hunger for herself. Can you hear the union at work? It's like this hunger for herself. She spoke of this love in herself and this hunger for this love, for what she was experiencing. I mean, it was the most marvellous conversation. Both of those in different ways.

If you're interested in exploring menopause through this context as a spiritual awakening, Alexandra and Sharni would like to warmly welcome you to join them for our live menopause online course, Menopause the Great Awakener, which starts on November the 2nd. On the course, Alexandra and Sharni will guide you through the five phases of the spiritual initiation of menopause, which we actually go into in more detail at the end of this podcast and we have a special offer for you at the moment when you order wise power you'll actually receive 50 off the early bird price of the course that's available until the 29th of september you can find out more and

receive this special discount and buy your book at wisepowerbook.com that's wisepowerbook.com i'm also thinking of sharon blackie's conversation yes how she brought in the theme of death which feels so important when we're talking about menopause as an awakening process helped jog my memory here but I feel like what she was saying was what I was hearing was that at menopause there's an understanding of mortality that happens in in a new way which is crucial to this the transformation that occurs yeah death is sobering it's it's sort of the final way station on this dawning reality that we are we are mortal and we're coming to an end you know shani is she's conscious of the ending of her menstrual

cycle years on the horizon when you're in menopause suddenly death actual death is on the horizon and this kind of ups the ante on your game you know because you've still got quite a few years of living but death is present so when that you know that is that's very final it's like wow does it evoke the big questions but the other element of that conversation that was really crucial was anger rage rage and this is absolutely part of the spiritual awakening and I very you know the stronger the anger for me there's stronger the spiritual indignation that the indignation of your spirit that this spiritual opening of menopause has not been properly anointed not recognized and therefore those approaching menopause or in it have not been appropriately acknowledged supported dignified and it is like a healthy reaction on the part of your being for the loss of this magnitude that is held within you it's a loss of power and potency you know a potency that's not

been validated and not been utilized so this was the other element for me of that morning moment I had which was I so wanted to speak to this spiritual awakening because I saw it not just as an individual awakening but as the people going through menopause they're like opening a portal for us all. It felt like something much bigger than just the individual. I've never had that thought so clearly as I felt in that moment. And I feel almost nervous saying it actually now. And that this, the power and potency of postmenopause women and people is so crucial for these times because we are in an ending in these times.

There's so many, we are being completely transformed in these times. The times are initiatory. And right now we're in the chaos phase. And we need all sorts of intelligences and powers from all sides. But why are we wasting the potency of post-menopause women? And they've got a direct line to something. I have a direct line to something. I feel it so fiercely and I feel it. And those who have done who are

postmenopause and who have done their inner work and and have been able to come into postmenopause life with some dignity and grace within their beings and they they know shit we know shit and we it's not just that we know stuff and this was something that shamley said in her interview there's this more invisible work that we become involved in we work much more on an energetic level because you know i don't have the physical chi that you or shani have but more have i got another kind of chi coming through which i have to look after it's quite challenging yeah that you step into the sort of next level of potency with what you're doing because what you're saying there alexandra reminds me of the conversation that we had with lynn twist who is the founder of the Pachamama

Alliance, and previously, the founder of the hunger project. And what she described was how her life, you know, she hadn't realized this, and still we began this conversation, transformation of menopause. She realized that her life had been divided into these two halves. Life before menopause, which was her work with the Hunger Project, ending world hunger, no less. And then menopause came along. And she stepped into this work of the Pachamama Alliance. And to hear all the details

of that, can I just say, it was just incredible, a staggering conversation, which has impacted me ongoingly since I listened to her. But she speaks about how she realized over time what menopause gave her was this sort of um expansion into still serving the things she's always been called to serve but serving it at source she realized that if you care for the rainforests, if you care for the trees, hunger is no longer the issue it has been. That's the source to care for. And so her stepping into that world work then really became a way of her bringing more potency and more acuity and discernment and more impact on some level to what she was what she's been called to do which i just found staggering to hear that story it was staggering it was staggering it was a staggering story of how it

will yeah through i mean it looks like it looks like two different missions, but it's not. She kind of really felt the continuity, the evolution of her calling through that experience of menopause. I'll wait to listen to that one. It was so funny. She was saying, oh, my God, I'm only just realizing it now in my conversation conversation with you that this was my menopause. This is it.

When menopause is named, given space, dignified and watching what arises in people and the new possibilities, the new meaning they understand about their life, new sense that is made. It's criminal that it's not being named i was gonna say it seems so wrong that people are going through this experience without the context without the kind of spiritual story without the an understanding of what's at work in them it does it seems so wrong well it's over as of the 20th of September 2022, it is over. I want to add just one other piece to this, which is because we've talked of some very grand and big things here about, you know, opening a portal to serving something bigger in the world,

sort of more macro level post-menopause. And those of you going through menopause, you know, now or at any time after, you know, hearing this, I want you to know that the crucial thing here is your life is meaningful and that your work in inverted commas is utterly singular to you and it may be of a much more intimate subtle kind of work you're doing within your

family your community local community It might not look, you know, I'm thinking of someone like Lynne Tuition bringing on the world stage, you know, doing this huge work. And that's her calling, and that's how she's channeling who she is. But it is crucial for us all to sort of pace and honour who we are and what is coming through us. And I almost want to say the word delicacy. Some of us may be doing very kind of

delicate things and it may on the outside, it may not look, you may be just going about your life business as usual but you've got a new orientation inside yourself and in fact we do illuminate this in the book there's another lovely story in there i'm thinking of helen's story you'll have to read the book to find out helen's story of what happened with helen you know on the outer things not much sort of changed really i'm sure things are refining because you always you you're in an endless process of discernment by strenophores and you get much sharper and clearer about what's in and what's out that will absolutely happen but that essentially the same you know sort of elements are there but on the inside you feel what's moving you and it isn't personal it's beyond you you are serving something bigger than you so i just really want to put that

into our you know context here of we're all called in different ways and some it's much more invisible for some it's very public and out there and all of it needs to be dignified and every single it all needs to be dignified and every single role is necessary every one of us is necessary is needed for the particular piece that we hold i can't emphasize that enough yeah i'm thinking of some of the themes that we've explored here so we've explored the rage which came up in the wise power conversations in like sharon's lava at her feet in her dreams and marcella lobos is another great South American shamanic teacher speaking about the fire that was burning up through her and you know fire was such a thing so rage there's this um feeling that you spoke about so beautifully Shani the

the feeling that all has failed us that there's nothing left to hold on to that that feeling of being bereft and one of the things that I'm most excited about because I love um a map I love don't we all don't we all need these maps and that there's a beauty to the map that you share in wise power which is you know it's big enough to hold the bigness of this experience it's it's not a five-step plan to make menopause great it's a wonderfully nuanced complex beautiful map I'd like to bring it in here because it's the core of well it's a core part of the book and it's the backbone of our Great Awakener course. And for me, it feels, I'd be genuinely curious to see what you think, but for me, it feels like a really important part of the contribution that you and Sharni have made with this book

around menopause being an awakening, menopause being a spiritual initiation. You've mapped out the phases which make sense of the rage the hopelessness yes in a really amazing way thank you sophie it does feel very um integrated now something's really come together clarity that allowed me to finally be able to articulate those phases and it was quite something because I'd been working with them in the menopause workshop and on the online course as well for some time and now I have such clarity in fact the names went through an evolution didn't they Shani in the writing of the book you know we'd been using these other names and then some something came knocking at my door saying we've got to use this other word I'm getting really that's a and it was the word betrayal we'd been using these other names and then something came knocking at my door saying,

no, we've got to use this other word. I'm going, really? That's a few. And it was the word betrayal, actually, that came up. I can't use that word. I can't. You can't. You can't.

You'll be betraying something if you don't use that word betrayal. So I feel that we have been able to together really articulate something about the different kind of, we talk about them as atmospheric conditions you have to pass through. Because essentially, there is only one phase. There is just awakening. There is just this moment where you step into an expanded reality and you're not going back however your psyche is not up to speed with this new expanded territory and the five phases are our description of the negotiations or the things that

need to happen the stages that you need to move through to be able to withstand the light we talk about being blinded by the light initially hence the chaos the betrayal and so on it's like it darkens immediately and so yes the the map of the five phases is a map of the different elements that come into play. And, you know, it's not, you know, we describe it in this sequential process. And it's true. You will feel for a period you are just in that betrayal phase. And then gradually over time, you're going to feel like you've come you're sort of kind of out of that kind of i want to say war zone that's quite strong right

but that's sort of and something is easing and there's just no chi there nothing and you're in a kind of place of just not quite cruising that's not the word but just whatever it's like there's no drive and that's what we call the repairs the rest surrendering it's like wow you've just you're coming to land now you've got through the shock betrayal and you're just coming to land and and then with time then something it's like you reach the bottom of something there and then in reaching the bottom inevitably something rises so it's like getting to the winter solstice

moment of the year when it's darkest at its darkest moment and then the year moves on and the light returns and that's what happens at menopause the new light you you start to be able to receive the light you've sort of prepared the ground you can actually let the light rise now and you be there and you shall we say when you move into what we call the revelation phase and which is this moment this time of seeing yourself it's beautiful and then that with time it unfolds then at the more you stabilize that the more clarity comes we call it the visioning the next stage where you really can sort of land something and then you are filled with the

possibilities but still you've got you don't have any Chi or anything just like high on something the life that I like to imagine people receiving all that and then gradually you feel yourself emerging it's like a cocoon you go into and these are sort of the five elements of the cocoon. And there is each you feel as time passes cuz this is like over two or three years. Oh, a normal life is going on by the way. Mm hmm. Go to work, put on the table for your children, you know, and then

negotiating all the seismic shifts in your being whilst maintaining all that. It's pretty bonkers. So you will feel gradually over time, oh yeah, now I do sort of feel like I'm here now, but actually in a way they're all present. So in the chaos of betrayal, actually you get extraordinary insights. You know, it's like, but it's not stable. So the five phases are a process of growing into ever greater stability. But you, your vision, it's all present right from the very beginning, the whole lot. So you walk through these phases in the book we do and then what happens on the great awakener let's speak about that because well what i uh appreciate about the great awakener

well firstly is just a big group coming together so So there's something in that that already means you are not alone with your experience. And that's such a blessing in terms of this finding this dignity piece. And what we do together is we go from the kind of theory of these phases to actually um acquainting ourselves with the skills and means uh the capacities we need in order to navigate these phases so we're developing psychological capacity we're developing psychological capacity. We're developing practice that allows us to move through these phases in a way that alchemizes them. Yes. I mean, we take each phase in turn and by the way what's interesting is wherever you are in the menopause journey you can do this so you actually could be like in

your late 40s or you know I mean Shani has done these exercises many times over or you could be totally in the thick of it and the chaos or coming out of it or even on the other side and the other thing is you can come back again and again each year I just want to say that because we've heard people say oh wow now I'm kind of further down menopause now they're sort of extracting more meaning from the exercise so that what's wonderful about the course is that it can actually hold you over the time of your menopause.

You could keep revisiting it each year and getting kind of new insight, but also new nourishment. So the exercise takes you both into your relationship with these phases, which are the phases of any transition, initiatory transition, but also you get to experience each of those phases through the kind of experience of the capacity that you need or the self-care practice that you need to be able to hold yourself in that phase and to be able to do what's required because each phase has a particular task in it doesn't it shiny we talk about we have all these and we go to the detail of it but very specific elements that have happened in each phase we have this neat summary at the beginning of each of those chapters.

And so there's a very important kind of thing you have to consummate in each phase. And you get a little insight into that, a little kind of support with that through the exercise. I mean, the exercise is quite potent and it gets more potent more potent each year there's something about people doing it over and over again and each year a new cohort coming in and somehow the work deepens for me so it's never the same program I mean I'm teaching the same things but it's never feels like the same I feel like I bring more gravitas and seriousness to it each time because I'm getting it more and more I mean not intellectually but in my being you know spiritually and also how to hold it for people um so the yeah it's um oh and then the final bit is that the skills or capacities that you're honing through each phase are your post-menopause skills. That's why this program really works for those who are already out of

menopause. Maybe not if you're out sort of by 10 years, although who knows, maybe actually, yes. But you know, you could be just out of menopause. Actually, it's very, very valuable because also if you haven't had this knowledge, you can come back and sort of repair something or get insight or understand. Oh, right. I didn't care for that. Well, then you sort of can revisit something. It's fascinating. So it operates on so many levels something that feels important to bring in which always feels important to bring in from the conversations I'm having with women and people in menopause and what I'm hearing from our community is that when there are health challenges happening well one thing is this process feels even more initiatory because there's just getting through day-to-day life with insomnia anxiety hot flushes night sweats all of the things that can

happen and there's a lot to tend to there so that the subtle psychological awakening processes can be tended to as well. So I want to point people to a resource which has arisen as a companion to Wise Power, which is your menopause remedies and resources free course that everyone can access. It's a great companion to the book. And I'll drop a link into the show notes

for people to be able to access that. Do you want to the book and I'll drop a link into the show notes for people to be able to access that do you want to say a couple of words about that yes it is about self-care and it's not a substitute for professional support but it it's all the things you can start to do for yourself and it's very very practical It's just information, practices, links to more information. And yeah, just putting some things in your own hand. And some of it is information that's going to cost you nothing because there's a lot of free information out there for the things that I'm mentioning, speaking about.

But also, I do want to emphasize, it may be really, really important to get proper holistic support as well. Well, what's great about this, Menopause Remedies and Resources, it's an expanding list, but it's a good place to go if you've got questions about health issues or

symptoms or wanting to find ways to support yourself physically mentally and emotionally during menopause because it will lead you down various paths and introduce you to various options and possibilities so it's just widening up the field so you know what's out there and what might help and it's mostly the things that Alexandra hasandra has personally found helpful yes it's not it's not comprehensive at all it's just the things that uh you know that i love and do that have yeah and then another resource which is part of the wise power retreat is your conversation that you had with Lara Bryden the naturopathic doctor Lara Bryden which is an incredible resource also Lara is terrific and so knowledgeable I can't recommend that one more she spoke so beautifully about the window of opportunity that menopause offers for our health and actually how if we um seize it we can reset

and recalibrate our health and our nervous system for the second half our life and in fact before you get into menopause too she was saying you know in those years just before you know in the sort of late 40s or what depends on where you go through menopause but it isn't just in menopause but just in those years before where especially when you're noticing things your cycle starting to do cranky things and blah blah blah you know double down on your health practice double down because one you'll make it your menopause easier but as she says this window of opportunity you're setting yourself up for the rest of your life. Okay, so final question. And this one's for you, Alexandra, because I'm coming back to that message you sent in the early hours when you were really with this need for the dignity. What would you wish for or what would you share for anyone who's in the menopause process

about this dignity and this dignifying to be incredibly kind to yourself to give yourself the benefit of the doubt to take your own side but to be so sweet and so kind with yourself. And to give yourself permission to rest as much as possible, as humanly possible within the context of your life. And it is an act of trust this to let go and I would love to say to you if you can let go just a little bit more than before the more you can the better and allow yourself to trust yourself and trust menopause, things will change, things will open up. But the key is your kindness and sweetness with yourself at this time.

Don't worry, you can be tough with yourself again once you're out, if you want to, but you don't worry you can be tough with yourself again once you're out if you want to but you don't really after that maybe firm actually I'm firm with myself thank you

thank you Alessandra and thank you Sharni thank you for writing this book oh Sophie I just And thank you, Sharni. Thank you for writing this book. Oh, Sophie. I just, this book is so personal to me. You know, the stuff in this book I have held for years, actually around betrayal, that I finally get to articulate.

And honestly, it's an amazing feeling to feel we've done it. Thank you so much for joining us today. You can get your copy of Wise Power at wisepowerbook.com. That's where you can also find the special discount for Menopause, The Great Awakener, which is starting on November 2nd. And if you're excited to hear about the menopause experiences of Lynn Twist, Shamali Ardar, Jane Hardwick-Collings, Sharon Blackie, amazing people, and the others that we mentioned in the conversation and more, we'll be sharing more about this upcoming free online retreat, the Wise Power Retreat that's happening in October.

But for now, save the dates, October the 11th to the 18th. So we'll culminate on World Menopause Day with an incredible live event. We'll share more with you soon. Okay, that's it for now. Until next time, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.