The Menstruality Podcast - The Messy Middle of Menopause (Ruby May)

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

As we’ve explored a lot on the podcast with the women and folks who have shared their own menopause stories, it can be a disorientating, deeply challenging, and very messy process. And today we’re hearing from a woman who is generously sharing right from the messy middle of her menopause journey. Ruby May is a coach, facilitator and community weaver, passionate about midwifing a culture grounded in the wisdom of the body. She is also a Red School Menstruality Leadership Programme graduate and is the community catalyst of the Hive graduate community at Red School. Most recently she has been co-creating Sabia, a platform with a vision of menopause as a transformative life stage.This conversation was born from my listening partnership with Ruby, where she shared a voice note which powerfully illuminated the many challenges of her menopause initiatory process, including the multiple emotional descents she’s taken, the rock bottom places she has hit, (particularly when she has had very little sleep) and how menopause has shone a light on all the parts of her that still want to be rescued, and validated.We explore:The importance of having allies who mirror your goodness back to you, even in your darkest times, without having to sugarcoat anything or find the silver lining. How her menopause doula aka fairy godmother, Kate Codrington (a fellow Menstruality Leadership Programme graduate) is following the pulse of her journey alongside her, and how her ‘go-to-crone’ - a rabble-rousing rebellious healer - is offering her acute support in the moment. How Ruby is navigating her own journey around whether to get HRT, and what do we do when we’ve created a life that we no longer have capacity to live out?   ---Receive our free video training: Love Your Cycle, Discover the Power of Menstrual Cycle Awareness to Revolutionise Your Life - www.redschool.net/love---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolSophie Jane Hardy: @sophie.jane.hardy - https://www.instagram.com/sophie.jane.hardyRuby May: @_.ruby.may._ - https://www.instagram.com/_.ruby.may._

Welcome to the menstruality podcast where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharny, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers, and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, welcome to the menstruality podcast. As we've chatted about a lot here on this podcast with

the women and folks who have shared their own menopause stories, it can be a disorientating, deeply challenging and very messy process. And today we're hearing from a woman who is generously sharing right from the messy middle of her menopause journey. And it's Ruby May. Ruby May is a coach, a facilitator, a community weaver. She's passionate about midwifing a culture grounded in the wisdom of the body. She's also a Red School menstruality leadership program graduate. And she's the community catalyst of the Hive graduate community at Red School. And more recently, she's been co-creating Sabia, a platform with a vision of menopause as a transformative life stage. And she shares more about that towards the end of the conversation. And this conversation was actually

born from a listening partnership I have with Ruby, where she shared a voice note which really powerfully illuminated the challenges she's facing in this menopause initiatory process, the multiple emotional dissents she's taken, the rock bottom places that she's hit just before she rises up again, particularly when she's had very little sleep, and how menopause has shone a light on all the parts of her that still want to be rescued and validated. It's such a tender conversation. I'm so grateful to Ruby for everything that she shared. And as I speak about at the beginning, I kind of imagine us sitting, drinking something lovely at a kitchen table. And as I was editing it, I was imagining everyone listening, you listening, sitting at that kitchen table with us

and just exploring the messy middle of the amazing, challenging menopause process. So let's get started with Ruby. Hey Ruby, thank you so much for joining me today. We were just chatting and I was saying that my longing for this conversation is that it's like we're at a kitchen table. drinking something lovely and each listener is just like pulling up a chair and having a chat with us as you do this very generous thing which is sharing from the middle the messy wild middle of your menopause process so thank you thank you thank you for being here and being willing to do this well it's lovely because i've actually been to your kitchen table before in the past

haven't I? So it's not that much of a stretch-tip match in it. Yes, yes, yes. You know how this podcast rolls. We always start with a cycle check-in. And we're actually doing this conversation because you have just passed your year of not having a bleed. So you're not with a menstrual cycle at the moment, but to kick us off with the conversation, I'm curious what cycles you do feel connected to if you are feeling connected to cycles yeah thank you i'd actually love to do a little check-in i really appreciate that about your podcast how they begin just really being with what is and i'd love to hear where you are in your cycle so and then i'd love to share what i'm discovering about cycles or or lack of them.

So, yeah, just a year now without a cycle. Today I woke up feeling really heavy. I can feel the energy is, it's like that second half of a menstrual cycle, so it's that sort of pull down and in. I feel slow. My brain feels a little slow and foggy, and there's a desire in me for simple, simplicity and just not like dressing things up, but just sort of like being, being with the

heart of what is and inviting simplicity. What about you? It's really beautiful to feel you and as I'm hearing you, I'm finding myself landing because I'm in my, what's rapidly becoming my rocket ship, like rocket launch phase of my cycle. Basically unbearable. But I just have to ride through it. I'm on day eight, eight. And the rising energy is so fierce in my body that just in a split second, it can become quite a ferocious anxiety.

But if I catch it, then I can just experience it as a very strong rising energy. I particularly feel it in my eyes right now, looking at you. It's like there's fire coming out of them. You know, anyone that's been listening to this podcast, for a while knows that I've been in a process with my inner spring pre-ovulatory phase of the cycle. And, yeah, maybe it's just such a long, slow process, four years now, I'd say, of, well, three,

of transmuting this very unconscious, anxious pattern into a conscious relationship with my own life force, maybe I could call it, or just this, or life just surging through me in this, you know, as my body prepares to ovulate again. Yeah, so it's a moment-by-moment process in these days, like, six to 12 of my brain can run into a million different anxiety pathways and I just have to keep going, okay, we're okay, it's just big energy, we're okay, it's just big energy. It's, yeah, oh, I really appreciate the chance to talk about it because even, even though I'm pretty cycle aware as a person, I forget, you know, all the time.

And I just feel like I'm crazy, which I think is basically the medicine of this podcast is like a problem. Oh, no, we're not crazy. We're cyclical. So, yeah, thank you for the opportunity to do a deeper check-in. You are such a creator of intimacy, naturally. Aw. You are.

I appreciate you. Thank you. That makes my heart warm. because like yeah it's something i really care about and i really appreciate your honesty because now having reflected on what i just shared it's like yeah ruby that was pretty like surface layer because the truth is yeah i'm i'm struggling today i don't have cycles but i definitely and this is one thing i've learned um in the last year that i'm always moving things are ebbing and flowing and something might, a state might stay for a day, a couple of days, a couple of weeks.

But I can feel a sort of pulling into the underworld again. And one of the things that that's characterised by is, you know, you use the word unbearable. Yeah, just being brought into a place of feeling quite low. And I notice one of the qualities is the sense of like, oh, God, life is just unbearable. And then I go, okay, Ruby, what is unbearable? Let's have a look at like what, you know. And I can't name anything.

Well, actually, everything's okay. But there's this really strong feeling that nothing's okay. It's that very archetype or or to me. And I think it's so powerful. to name it. Because when I do that, I can feel my conditioning that tells me, well, if you talk about difficult, dark things, you have to like truss it up somewhat or, you know, throw in where the silver lining is. And that's like one of the things that I've noticed in speaking to other women who are deep in their menopause journey. Sometimes I hear a woman speak about the dark

places that she's being invited to go into and she speaks in a way where there's just there's no sugar coating there's no trying to find meaning or you know the golden line it is just having the the courage and the the radical honesty just to name the challenge and the hopelessness the dark places that I think for a lot of us is part of this archetypal journey. It's different for everyone, right? But there's something, I think, within the journey that can bring us to those really, you know, places of doubt, places of hopelessness, places of, am I ever going to come out of here? And it's so powerful. I can't explain why, but I can just, I can sense that there's something very important and very powerful about it being able to to be with and

and name that and hallelujah sophie because also what i've learned is that there is always another side there is always they're coming out the other side so there's a trust today knowing that yeah it's tough today is tough and always going to be that way yes thank goodness for awareness the main teacher of cycle awareness for me when you speak it's reminding me of my own times of grief in my life or times when those that I love have been grieving and all they need is someone to sit with them really and not say anything not even hug them not do anything just sit there and be what be in the depths of the destruction that's happening So it might be a weird analogy, but often when I get to have this very privileged position

of speaking with women in menopause, because it's not where I'm in my life yet, but it reminds me of the depths of my infatility journey when I wanted everyone to fuck off who was telling me, just let go, just relax, go on holiday, I'm sure you'll get pregnant at some point. I just needed someone to sit with me while I was crying and say, this hurts. This hurts. So that's what it's reminding me. of when you're saying, you know, can we be together in this underworld place where things are being dismantled, it's disorientating, it's all of the disses, it's not fun. And it just feels radical in this world where the culture is, yeah, not there.

Like, there's a real discomfort around that, isn't there? Yes, yeah, we're not very skilled at it. I feel like we used to be. Maybe we used to be around death more. We used to be as live as villages. We used to be in community. I don't know if I've got a kind of fantasy view of what life used to be like. But I just sense that, yeah, in our little boxes and our little units within these cultures

of productivity that we live inside of, it's not a skill that many of us have, like, grown big muscles in this being with in the shit. Yeah. And the culture is that you do it privately, you know, you don't go on a podcast. you know even if you're in a circle a sharing circle it's still or yeah check in it still often feels energy right to really name when you're challenged yeah one of my favorite podcast is how to fail with this woman called elizabeth day and that's it she they dare i think it's so popular because they dare to go into okay let's look at the most difficult shit

parts of your life and let's explore them together and it's so liberating i feel liberated sitting with you. Place that I wanted to begin Ruby is, because I get the honor of having a listening partnership with you, so I've got to track some of this process over the last while. And one of the things you shared in a recent message was a cycle that you're tracking in your menopause process, which you just spoke to, the descent and then the rise.

So you're tracking that there's a disintegration, disorientating dissent process. And then just when you hit the rock bottom feeling of, okay, I can't take this anymore, something shifts and opens up. And that's actually when you sent a message to me saying, hey, I think we should have this conversation. So I wonder, like, could you, could you map out how that, how that's unfolding? Would you call it a dissent in rising? Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the things as a prelude is whenever I try and say, oh, well, I've noticed this pattern or this is the way things are,

you know, she's such a trickster like it feels like she doesn't like she doesn't like to be put in a box or labelled or, you know, she keeps me on my toes. However, I have noticed that, you know, I've had phases of feeling really steady over the last year, just kind of engine chugging along. I have not had periods of feeling high energy. It's been pretty autumnal the whole time. And then a period of like real, yeah, wintery feeling like in a little incubator. cocoon the need for protection and um but within that there's been uh times where

yeah these feelings of anxiety of feeling just very low feeling very depleted feeling like really struggling with lack of sleep um good quality sleep um and it's it's this I think the general feeling is like I can't cope things aren't okay it's just a general yeah it's not okay head increasingly below water and it's sort of gaining in intensity and I think there's something around lack of sleep that probably a lot of us can relate to it's just shit isn't it like when you're not sleeping properly just everything is really not Okay. The word that comes to me is like desiccation.

I just feel desiccated like it's a horace. Like I'm just, yeah, shattered into pieces and I somehow have to keep moving through the day. Yeah, yeah. And the word that I often feel is like savage. There's just something savage about it. Several times I've come to a point in that how I experience it as a dissent where I've been like, okay, this no more. Like, I just can't do this. And, you know, then there's always that question, do I go and get hormones?

Like, how much challenge am I able to hold? Do I want to hold? While everyone around me, it feels like, is like, well, of course you'd go and take hormones, because why not? Like, they're there to help. You don't have to suffer. Why would you choose to suffer? So whenever I reach that point of my, what feels like my limit, I have noticed that there will be a sense of coming out the other side to the point where, yeah, now it feels like I can remember that when I'm in that really low point and I can remind myself that, you know, it's okay.

there's going to be an assent after this and not only will there be an assent but what I've seen is that those ascents can be pretty amazing I mean they're like the mother of a sense they're not like a you know just after a bleed and I mean that already can be a huge thing as you yeah have attested to

yeah it feels and this is not doing it justice but it just feels like there is a sense of strength and a sense of wisdom that come through in those moments of assent that make everything make sense. You shared a really vivid image with me, which made me laugh for about five minutes. So I'm so grateful when I was out walking the dog by the river and listening to your message, because you were describing your last descent and dissent. He said, you feel this power surging up through you after the descent, after you've hit that

bottom. He said, it feels like you have this gigantic sword, but you're wobbly with it because it's like, it's much, much bigger than you. So this image of you like somehow trying to juggle this gigantic sword and keep it. I think I said that I felt like a toddler holding this giant sword. What is it? Yeah. Yeah. It's also not so much during the ascent, but sometimes in those really challenged, dark places where I feel really surrendered, I think that's maybe the key, is like, surrendered to being so deeply worked by this part of my journey. And there's something around the paradox of the way life works that sometimes in those deepest moments of, have surrendered to a dissent, whether that's grief or the challenge of just being brought into

contact with deep challenging feelings, with lack of sleep, that in the deepest part, there is the seed of a power. You know, it's life and death. Yes. And as Alexander always says, the death feels like death. When you're in the death part of a death and rebirth cycle, it's very rare it's great that you've been capturing it but it's very rare that you can have this thought of oh it's all right because i'll be reborn soon so it's fine no you are part of you is dying and to the part of you that's dying it only feels like death and and yeah i think there's something so important about cycle awareness that we can program ourselves with that experience of death and rebirth like countless times right yeah and so the portal of menopause because if if i hadn't

I've done cycle awareness, I'd be having such a different experience. I was really feeling that as you were talking, it really reminds me of that, for me, it's often day 27, 28, although my cycle's starting to get really erratic now, so I never quite know. I bled on day 24 and I was like, okay, I guess that's where I am now, so I'll be calling you up and asking you have to navigate this. But yeah, in that day, what used to be, the day 27, 28 for me where actually I'd love if we could kind of slow this down in your process

and for those listening who are still with a menstrual cycle maybe they can be reflecting on their void before the bleed but this surrender process like what's happening inside you because in my experience

surrender isn't something that you can do it's something that happens so it's sort of creating the conditions for it to happen and like you said we get to get to did you say download this death and rebirth what did you say it was a call i didn't know i didn't say that right yeah yeah we get to practice it we get to just keep laying down the blueprint inside of us can you track some of what happens in you around that surrender in the descent like what what thoughts are going through your head or what are you experiencing physically

You know, the word surrender to me has this glamorous, shiny, nice quality to it. Like, oh, you know, the art of surrendering. And I think I'm just dragged kicking and screaming on the sea so few. You know, it's messy. I feel like I'm being dragged through it. And so much of it is around really noticing because it's difficult as it is, right? I don't need my inner critic making it. even more difficult.

So that's like a really big part of my practice is really paying attention to the level of kindness that I'm bringing to myself. Yes. And it's like the more vulnerable I feel, the more out of it I feel, the less sleep I have, the more imperative it is that I cut myself some slap.

And what's helped, I'm not answering your question probably, but I'll continue anyway, I feel like you are because I feel like you're speaking about the architecture of surrender you're like what is actually happening in the process yeah

what's been really helpful is connecting with my future self and imagining her looking back and when it became clear that one day I'm going to look back at this time and be like that was the year

I stopped bleeding and so tuning into that future Ruby like how does she want to look back at that year? Is it the year I tried to like, you know, push on through and, you know, build, because I'm also trying to get a business off the ground? Is it the year I, you know, hustle to get my business off the ground and, or is it the year I just cut myself some slack and allowed it to be messy, allowed myself to struggle with it, allowed myself to rest, allowed myself to rest and feel guilty for resting, but fuck it, whatever,

you know, just let it be what it is. And I realized I was putting pressure on myself to like have, I think also maybe, you know, for our generation, it's an exciting time to go through menopause. You know, it's like we're the first generation that probably has more ability to make informed choices to speak about it openly, to receive different kinds of support and that obviously

someone who works professionally with menstruality, I was putting a lot of pressure on myself to like have a good experience. Do it all right basically. Really? And then that's the thing and also part of why we're having this conversation because you know there's

you can you can expose yourself to content by these beautiful post-menopausal women in their second spring or second summer and they reflect back about their death initiation through menopause and it all sounds quite

exciting and you know technically it's hard but I don't think that the yeah my experience of it has been that all those places in myself that need a light shone on them

the most uncomfortable, icky, anxious, traumatised parts, young, abandoned parts, it's becoming unavoidable to not meet them. Yeah, wow, I mean, these are themes that have come up in the conversations that I've been lucky to have. I'm thinking back especially to the one with Claire Dubois,

who did share from the messy middle of her process. And it really, really spoke to the community. And there was a lot of feedback about that episode. It's like, thank you for speaking to someone in the middle of it. And, yeah, she was naming, yeah, the unbearable nature of it. And just how unbelievably messy and chaotic and frightening it was. And I'm also thinking of Shamili. So this is Shamili Arda, the founder of Awakening Women.

And I think, yeah, I think it's because what menopause requires, from her is this level of inner mothering that she hadn't at all understood. And it feels like it connects to the kindness that you're speaking about. Particularly with the abandoned parts, the traumatised part. It's like, she basically spent most of her menopause with like an inner two, three, four year old self and actually learning how to mother that part of her for the first time, really. Even though the years and decades and decades of, you know, inner work that she had done menopause shone the light on that part that she hadn't been able to have access to yet which i guess is part of the gold but it doesn't necessarily feel like gold

when it's what you know when maybe what you're feeling is all the feelings of those abandoned parts all the feelings those traumatized parts yeah and i you know i think it involves kindness and then there's you know to parent ourselves there's the the gentleness and the kindness and then there's there's the like tough love too and I noticed with myself in this journey the parts of me that still want to be rescued it's like the inner maiden who like uh wants wants someone to validate me wants someone to be like wow ruby you're going through menopause look at you well you know just like honor my experience and it's like well you know that that might happen but ultimately like you know I'm longing for something that really needs to come

from from me I need to own my need for self-honouring and validating my own experience or just noticing in relationally with people the young parts of me that don't want to step up and initiate or want to be rescued And I feel like my menopause journey has really shone a light on those parts. And yes, they need kindness and gentleness. But there's also a sense of, yeah, putting my big girl boots on, putting my getting into really what it means to be an adult. I'm going to pause my chat with Ruby for a moment.

As I mentioned at the beginning, Ruby is the community catalyst for the Hive graduate community where there's a big and beautiful circle of cycle-passionate people from all over the world gathered both to deepen their cycle awareness practice, but also to receive support and share support with others as they bring their menstruality and menopause, menstrual cycle and menopause-inspired offerings out into the world through their communities, families, careers, businesses, creative projects and so many different ways. And if you would love to be part of a community like this, then we invite you to come and explore the menstruality leadership program at menstrualityleadership.com. The doors have recently opened again. It's a three-month immersive apprenticeship to the menstrual cycle as your own

inner guidance system, your own coach in a way, so that you can be emboldened and and skilled up to lead in your unique way in your life. Participants come from a very wide variety of life stages and professional backgrounds, and you can hear lots of the graduate stories at menstrualityleadership.com. And I'm going to share a clip from Ruby after she did her MLP training to share her experience of it,

and then we'll get back to our conversation about her menopause journey. I remember when I read I received the invitation to apply for the menstruality leadership training and like the full body all cells tingling yes that I experienced it was like so clear that this is something that I have to do and I remember so clearly that that excitement was also about tuning into the place that the invitation came from because I could sense that it came from such a deep and wise and embodied place and that that was so refreshing in a world that just feels full of different courses and information

and all these different things that you can do and I could just sense that, wow, this is something really different. It has changed my life in such beautiful, subtle yet deeply impactful ways. Some of that is through the guidance of Shawnee and Alexandra who just, embody this wisdom and facilitate in a way that is just such a pleasure to experience. But a lot of it is also from the sense of being held in a community, having peers around me on a similar journey, and being held in a movement, no, because it feels like that these teachings and this work is very much in emergence through a movement and unfold. holding that is happening on our planet.

And I am so grateful to feel like I get to be part of the puzzle and find my unique way to share this and am ever in gratitude for the Red School for being such a catalyst on the start of my journey. When you say the big girl boots, My mind goes to the sword, the sword that the toddler is carrying. And the just paradoxical, humongous challenge of being sleep deprived, exhausted, brain fogged, all the things, but feeling for what's needed and then somehow having to

show up for yourself in the middle of all of that, I'm seeing you with your big cowboy, cowboy girl boots on holding a sword and how just how to do that in the middle of the days that keep rolling on and the demands that are being asked of you from the world and your responsibilities and like you mentioned a business that you're trying to get off the ground yeah that's why you need a listening partnership amongst other things because i really feel like if we're going to do this without that i fully respect when we don't have the capacity and resources to do this journey without hormonal support. Because I think actually I'm in a very privileged position that I feel like I can so far meet

my challenge just about, but not everyone is like that, but to have a real spectrum of different kinds of support. Yes. Yeah, I have a menopause dula. Yeah, tell us about that. Can you? I can. Well, yes, she's probably been on your podcast before. I think she has.

Let's name. So Kate Codrington is like my menopause fairy godmother. And yeah, it's gorgeous. I have travelled with her. I think this is the second year now. And rather than like acute support in the moment, I feel like she's someone who is just kind of following the pulse of my journey. So, you know, we only meet every couple of months, but it's just like a kind of punctuation mark, a kind of, okay, where am I at now?

And knowing that someone has this, like, loving overview of me, and I just adore her. I think she's fantastic. And then I have my go-to crone, which is someone in my community, Susanna Bryne, who's just, this wonderful, wise, healer, rebel rouser, rebel, just, yeah, she's in her 60s and she's someone that I can go to for, yeah, like acute support when I need it in the moment, who's also like a role model. I think it's so important to have, like, women that inspire us. Yeah, I think part of the journey is to wonder will it will it ever change because it can be years right i was speaking to someone in the hive community the other day which is our community for the

red school graduates and she was saying yeah it's like five years of feeling in this very intense in a autumn in a winter um so it might be a while ahead and then so powerful to have people who are shining their light out the other side in their second spring even having that term second spring a word for it is so potent isn't it yes yes and what would you say are some of the qualities that Kate is bringing as a menopause dula or that did you say Suzanne yeah all praise to the go-to crones what kind of qualities are they bringing to you that are that are meeting you where you're at and I'm asking that question because I'm thinking for those of us who are you know connected to and supporting friends and family who are

going through this what are the qualities that you're most appreciating about those about the good support you're getting yeah great question to be really honest I think that a really big part is that they've been through it which means that not everyone would be able to give that kind of support. Yes. But I think the qualities that would be more general are they bring an ability to just be present with whatever I'm sharing. So I don't feel a fear of being too much or dragging them down or, yeah.

So it's that being met with openness, curiosity, loving compassion, not giving advice unless it's asked for the excellent are giving advice but you don't want to get advice if you ask for it right and I think also there's trust that yeah trust

in me seeing the goodness in me seeing the beauty in me enjoying being with me even if I'm in this state yeah when you have someone who can mirror your goodness back for you that's a powerful

part of the thing vital especially through life's dark times without silver lining things this is artful what we're talking about yeah I think what I appreciate about my support system these amazing humans is that they also really did it their own way

they don't have an agenda as to like how it's meant to be done or what it's meant to look like or they have quite a rebellious streak in them both of them so and that that's one thing i've noticed in my journey is that haven't even read wise power fully i've dipped my toes in even kate's book second spring i've dipped my toes in but i've been so careful what i expose myself to because my brain can so easily start comparing my experience to like the archetypal experience or what yeah and then get busy with you know what i should be or shouldn't be feeling or experiencing

and there's something around this journey that feels like you need to do it your way and discover what I want to discover how to do it my way and what my experience is and notice when is it helpful to learn from others and when is it not? Beautiful discernment. Yeah.

One of the things that you shared that feels it feels like something I hear a lot in different ways of expressing it but you were describing how when you hit the rock bottom places I'm calling them rock bottom that wasn't your word but does that does that speak to it like bearable places yeah that there's a feeling of what am I going to do because I've created a life based on me having a certain capacity and that life does not fit i do not have that capacity what the fuck do i do now you know that's and then the light comes up from how the clouds a little bit and things feel different but you know how you

at that process i'm so glad that you brought that in because i imagine that's something that a lot of us are confronted with exactly that like i've spent years building a life for myself that I no longer have capacity to live. And, yeah, that is a building site for me right now, exploring that. And I think this is how, for me, one of the ways that the spiritual dimension of menopause comes into play. because there's on the one hand there's this having to let go of identities

that I've built up for myself like I'm in Ruby May I juggle all these different plates I'm really creative I make shit happen in the world who am I when I'm low energy when I don't have any drive when I don't feel creative

who am I when I'm not giving who am I when I'm not nurturing my projects and I mean it feels like menopause has touched every single area in my life there's not one area that has gone untouched and so in this to me in this disorientation of having to let go of these identities

that I've built up yeah there's there's a spiritual dimension to that you know the sort of recognition that those are identities I've built up. They're not really who I am. And then there's the element of panic and anxiety around, well, how am I going to take care of myself if I don't have all that energy? Because as a self-employed person, my life depends on me having energy.

And where I've come to with that is the other week it was funny sophie it was like it was like i was having a bleed but i wasn't bleeding i had two days where i just i woke up and i was like no just nothing is going to happen today i just have no energy whatsoever i'm totally unable to show up and i'm going to rest i there's just there's just no other way and then the anxiety begins oh you know what if this continues, you know, how am I going to survive? And I really felt into deeply connected to my trust or not having trust in life. And was like, well, you know, trust or no trust, I need to take this time off and do

absolutely nothing. And then through taking that time off and, you know, coming out the other side was like, I really do feel that trust. It wasn't like, I'll generate or connect to that trust and then I'll take the time off. It's like, no, I honor my body. I do what I'm guided to do. And then by grace, I feel that trust. And this is my favorite guiding question throughout the whole journey that I've been on is,

whatever I'm confronted with, what is it asking of me? What is this asking of me? And so I'm being asked to practice trust, practice it. And I think when we make that choice, at risk of sounding a bit woo-woo, the universe response. And you just said, well, trust or no trust, I'm going to rest. And it reminds me of when we were speaking about surrender and being dragged, kicking and screaming into it, that's the messy bit. like, well, okay, there isn't going to be this perfect moment where a light shines down

and I am ordained with surrender and trust and I healed into it. It's like, no, there's parts of us that aren't going to trust, but we go anyway, and then we can trust, which really does remind me of the experience of menstruation when we go into it with the intention of receiving this love from life or this belonging from life, this trust, this deep trust. and I struggled with that during my menstruating years I never said that before Sophie during my menstruating years it's a big moment

but you know all those things that I didn't face back then like wow what a beautiful opportunity to face now beautiful and messy and yeah and all of it yeah can i ask can we just get practical with this for a moment um like how are you actually making it possible to function with a reduced capacity even with the demands of your life like what are some of the i am not going to use the word hacks do not use the word hacks say jane hardy we don't hack on this podcast what are some of the things that are helping

Yeah. I like that question. So I noticed that my energy is way more dependent, is more relational than it used to be. So when I'm collaborating with someone, I find it much easier to complete a task or engage with something. And so I do a lot of co-working or like I have different people that support me with different pieces of my work. So that's a huge support. So is that something that you're consciously cultivating? Okay, this is hard. How can I invite someone else in to be with me in it? Great. Exactly. Yeah.

And I love that. You know, like the times are doing things on my own and are over. And I think that's a collective phenomena as well. No, we, you know, this whole thing around having to be the independent solopreneur. It's exhausting. Like I think I think we all could do with more. collaboration. Yeah, also,

relationally, I made changes. I used to have lots of connections with people via WhatsApp voicemails, and I realize I can't do that anymore. It's too much, so I had to bow out of some of those, and that was difficult, because, you know, people valued the connection. I often

I'm very brief in my communication, and I don't like that when I receive that from other people, right? I like a message that someone makes an effort. You said to me, you're like, you're doing lots of thumbs up on WhatsApp. I think something rude? They think I'm rude. I'm going to move on. That's the thing. I'm dealing with people thinking that I'm rude.

And ultimately, I'm in the process through this discernment that I will just have less and less so I can bring more and more of my but you know this is the transition and it's it's yeah it's not so easy um so i'm i'm really simplifying i really check in with myself i always distinguish between is it my head wanting to do this and thinking it's a good idea and what is like my bodily response you know i had to not go to my best friend's birthday party because my body was like no way we're going to hang out with a big group of people. And that's sad, but that's really the way it is. And ultimately, I just felt relief and gratitude towards myself.

So just really keeping it simple and making sure that everything I'm doing feels as nourishing as possible. Yeah, something you said in a message to me where you said, okay, I've been invited to do two different speaking gigs you know in interviews one of them is about the menstrual cycle and this and that one of them is about the archetypal journey of menopause and nothing in me wants to do the the menstrual cycle one and everything in me is just an easeful yes to the menopause one and it sounds like what I took from that as part of what you're doing is following the easy yes and whenever it's not an easy yes it's just a no yeah again it's like connecting with future self and how how does you want to look back at this time. Yeah, the time I cut myself and slap.

Okay, final question. Yes. When you connect to your future self, or does you think about your new relationship with coffee? This is the deep tragedy of your manifold process, isn't it? Well, no, it's the gift. I mean, there's been further evolution, Sophie, since my last time. The one thing I have stuck to, okay, so this is my confession for anyone listening to this. Yeah, I have had, oh, it's nice putting it in the past, I've had a very addictive relationship with coffee.

I mean, it feels absurd, practicing MCA and drinking coffee. The two just don't go together, right? Because what you're doing is you're really tracking and pacing, honoring your energy, and coffee is sort of subtly and sometimes not so subtly putting yourself in this kind of pushing energy but for me it was very connected with trauma patterns of feeling like when I wake up I need to quickly be able to be on it and so I reached a point in one of my dissents where it's like the next thing on the list to look at is Ruby's relationship with coffee and yeah And I'm pleased to say that I have changed my relationship with coffee.

I still, we're still having a relationship, but it's definitely more of a conscious one. But Sophie, I don't know if we're ever going to say goodbye to each other. It's kind of my simple pleasures. A smell of coffee in the morning. Are you a coffee drinker? Well, I drank so much in my 20s. that I feel like I made myself a bit allergic to it because I used to work in restaurants

and sometimes I'd work all day and all evening and so I'd have like four triple espressoes throughout that time. Like I'm talking massive amount of coffee. So these days even if someone, like if I order a coffee and someone accidentally makes it caffeinated instead of decaf, I can't sleep for most, basically the next night.

So yeah, we have we have decaf coffee and it smells wonderful, but it's still not quite that gorgeous ritual of the like uplift of the coffee but yeah it just really i remember you saying in a message that it was you were really noticing oh this needs to shift there's something that's yeah something that needs to change here yeah and i you know i really appreciate that urgency that this time for me and i think for many of us this feeling of it's now or never you know don't put it off it's now or never and you know i'm proud when i feel into this past year i've really looked at

my nutrition, I've started lifting weights, you know, just getting my working with the menopause doler, this support, that support. It feels like I've really, yeah, I'm doing all the things and yeah. Wow, this has been such a rich conversation. You know, I'm tracking so many pieces like so many helpful useful like applicable approaches like the future self like how how will she how will they want to look back and see how I was in this time the recognizing that's the surrender and trust takes it's imperfect and it's messy and sometimes we go kicking and screaming but there's something waiting for us on the other side the like these arcs that you're going through of the descent and the rising and that you are hitting these

unbearable places and then something is shifting yeah and I I'm so I'm so grateful that we can get that we've been able to get into the kind of intricacies of your process and that you've shared so generously with us because it's I imagine it feels very vulnerable to do so because you're not reporting back from the other side you're you're right here in it so I'm so grateful to you and you know person recently because I feel like I've gained a lot, you know, for my process, but for our community too. So thank you, love. Really appreciate it. I'm really grateful for the culture that you are supporting through having conversations like this because I think it's really changing

this idea that when we're challenged, we have to keep it private. I don't think that's serving anyone that when we're in a leadership position or, you know, we're some kind of practitioner or healer ourselves that, you know, we have to have all our shit together, that we can't be going through it and support other people at the same time. So I feel like you're doing wonderful things with, yeah, turning that old culture on its head. Thank you. I do feel mildly embarrassed most of the time doing it. Like, did I just really say that? Oh, God. I just know whenever I hear others sharing from their actual experience, I feel relief. So I'm like, sure.

Someone might think I'm an empty, but a lot of people just wait relief. For those listening, if they'd like to connect with you, what's the best way to do that? Yeah, so my website, rubymay.com, is a good way to find me. Yeah, I'm offering some one-to-one work. And also the business I mentioned that I'm getting off the ground this year is actually a business offering community in-person gatherings and online support for those going through perimenopause. So that's Sabia, which is wise in Spanish

because my business partner is German-Mexican. Amazing. And is that, is the in-person stuff mostly going to be happening in Germany? Yes, for now. Okay. Yeah. So, and how would people find that more about Sabia? Well, there's a link from my Ruby May website.

Okay, lovely. Are you still writing on Substack? That was one of my things that I took a break from, unfortunately, but I've got all my gems that are sitting out there in the world. But, yeah, I love my writing, but I'm taking a break for the time being. Thank you so much, Ruby. And of course, for those of us in the Red School community, you are the community catalyst for the hive, the graduate community. So that's also a great way to connect with Ruby. She's very active there. Yeah. Okay, thank you so much for today. And I've just got my hands at your back as you carry on this brave journey.

Thank you. Thanks for being with Ruby and I today. if this conversation supported you, please forward it to a friend who is looking for, perhaps looking for some support in their own messy middle of the menopause process. And please subscribe to the podcast. It really helps us to reach more people with conversations like this. And we're so grateful for everyone that subscribes and also leaves reviews. It's really helpful too. All right, that's it for this week. I'll be with you again in a couple of weeks. And until then, keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.