The Menstruality Podcast - The Power of Cycle Aware Movement, Exercise and Yoga (Le’Nise Brothers)

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Why do we need to adapt the way we move and exercise throughout the cycle? In today’s conversation we explore the physical and mental health benefits of cycle-aware movement, and how to adjust the way we exercise throughout the cycle month.Our guest, Le’Nise Brothers shares her own experience of  using diet, exercise and lifestyle changes to improve painful and heavy periods, anxiety, depression and irritable bowel syndrome. Le’Nise is a yoga teacher, and Nutritionist, specialising in women's health, hormones and the menstrual cycle. She’s the host of the Period Story podcast, and the author of the new book, You Can Have a Better Period which came out in March - a practical guide to understanding your cycle and balancing your hormones with nutrition and yoga, for a calm and pain-free period.We explore:How to move in each season of your cycle, including slow flow yoga in inner winter, strength training in inner spring, high energy exercise to channel your ovulatory surge in energy and mood stabilising exercise in inner autumn. How can we move to support ourselves through pre-menstrual anger and anxiety? How can movement help us if we’re experiencing menstrual pain, endometriosis, heavy periods, including healing yoga poses and even how to use orgasms as a form of pain relief.---Get your copy of Wild Power: Discover the Power of Your Menstrual Cycle and Awaken the Feminine Path to Power. It's here in the shownotes: https://redschool.net/podcast/35---The Menstruality Podcast is hosted by Red School. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social media:Red School: @redschool - https://www.instagram.com/red.schoolLe’Nise Brothers: @eatlovemove - https://www.instagram.com/eatlovemove

Welcome to the Menstruality Podcast, where we share inspiring conversations about the power of menstrual cycle awareness and conscious menopause. This podcast is brought to you by Red School, where we're training the menstruality leaders of the future. I'm your host, Sophie Jane Hardy, and I'll be joined often by Red School's founders, Alexandra and Sharni, as well as an inspiring group of pioneers, activists, changemakers and creatives to explore how you can unashamedly claim the power of the menstrual cycle to activate your unique form of leadership for yourself, your community and the world. Hey, thank you so much for joining us today on the menstruality podcast. We've just reached 25,000 downloads on this podcast and it feels so good to know that the field of menstruality is expanding in such a powerful way and I really want to thank you from my heart

for being part of the community that is making this happen. Today we've got a much requested episode about how to adapt our movement and the way we exercise around the inner seasons of our menstrual cycle. So our guest is Laniece Brothers and she shares her own experience of using exercise and lifestyle changes to improve painful and heavy periods, anxiety, depression and IBS, irritable bowel syndrome. She is a treasure trove of wisdom around the physical and mental health benefits of cycle aware movement and how we can adjust the way we exercise through the cycle month. So Laniece is a yoga teacher, she's a nutritionalist specialising in women's health, hormones and the menstrual cycle. She's the host of the Period Story podcast and the author of the new book You Can Have

a Better Period which came out in March. congratulations Laniece. In the episode today we look at we go season by season looking at how to change your movement you know including slow flow yoga in inner winter, strength training in inner spring, high energy exercise to channel your ovulatory surge in energy and mood stabilising exercises and practices in autumn. We look at how we can support ourselves to move through premenstrual anger and anxiety and we even look at how we can use orgasms as a form of pain relief. Okay, let's get going with our episode with Laniece Brothers about the power of cycle-aware movement, exercise and yoga. So hi Laniece, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. How's it going? Yeah good, I'm really excited to be here. I'm really excited to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is the menstrual cycle.

Me too. And let's start right there with your menstrual cycle. Where are you at with your cycle today? And how is it influencing how you're feeling? So I, my menstrual cycle is on average about 25, 20, between 24 to 26 days. So last, last menstrual month was 25 days. And I was actually really happy about it because my cycles have been really short for, and for me short is like 22 22 21 days for a couple of years um because I've just been under a lot of stress so I've been doing a lot of work recently to look at how I can lengthen my menstrual cycle and kind of optimize ovulation and all of that but yeah so I'm on day 15. And so I know I ovulated a few days ago. So I'm heading towards the end of my menstrual cycle. But I still feel really good.

I feel I have lots of energy. I feel calm, you know, riding that wave of progesterone. I taught a class this morning, I'm a yoga teacher. And, you know, that was I had a lot of energy, and I felt quite good doing it. So this is the time of my cycle that I really like, because I feel really calm and focused. Me too. This is my favorite phase of the cycle in autumn, as we call it at Redskins. It's usually for me from my day 18 or 19, I have a long, long phase of this. Although last cycle, I had a 24 day bleed. I bled on day 24, which is the first time in my life. So yeah, as you're exploring these shorter cycles, what are you learning about how to lengthen your cycle you can't underestimate estimate the impact of stress on your menstrual health and I've always been the type of person that I I take a lot on and I always feel like I can handle a lot but what I've realized is that I've taken on too much.

And, you know, the practices that I usually go to, to calm and restore me are now very linked into the work I do. So yoga, deep breathing, cooking. And so when I'm doing these things I'm all I'm like things are popping in my mind oh wouldn't it be great if you did a video on that or what about that recipe so I like cooking for example I forced myself last night to get into a flow state and not think about anything else and I just thought oh I'll just take a couple of pictures of this at the end and that was it I forced myself to get in the zone but you to answer your question stress is so sure like that kind of not like there's different types of stress

there's that you stress which is a positive form of stress. It's like that anticipation of a birthday party, or maybe you're speaking, doing some sort of speaking gig, and you're looking forward to it. So it's that positive stress, that anticipation versus distress, which is that chronic stress that a lot of us are experiencing. And you think about the different levels of stress, where it's work stress, maybe family stress, maybe there's some emotional things that you're dealing with, maybe prior trauma. But there's also systemic stress, stressors that we all deal with as well.

Like thinking about everything that's happened since 2020 it has an impact and I think a lot of us are much more stressed than we realize and the way that plays out is changes in in the menstrual cycle but also changes in the bleed yeah they call it a stress sensitive system don't they menstrual cycle like it shows us how we need to change in a way yeah exactly but I think firstly we don't realize so many of us don't realize that our menstrual cycle is a stress sensitive system so when things changes change things change, we're just not sure what's going on. But also so many people, like I was reading some research this morning about

how many people just don't understand their menstrual cycle beyond their period, but even their period, they don't understand that. So there's just so many levels of understanding that we're just not hitting yet. And so you have people out there just struggling to figure out what's going on with their health. Which is why this conversation today is so relevant. You know, we're going to be talking a lot about cycles and lifestyle and especially cycles and movement and how we can work with our cycles of movement, how we can adapt our movement to our cycle so that we're helping our body to do what it needs to be doing. And, you know, you're a key voice here in this whole work to help people to be more aware of their cycles and more aware of their periods especially with your book that's just been published you can have a better period

what was the main thing that inspired you to write the book? I was getting the same questions a lot not only in my my private practice as a nutritionist, but on Instagram, on social media, when I would do talks and workshops, the same things were coming up again and again. And I just thought to myself, just looking at the scope of work on menstrual health that is already out there, I thought there's just, there's some, must be a need for more. And then I thought about, well, what, what can I bring to the table? And then I thought there has to be more about what we can proactively do. So, you know know there's a lot on the kind of theory around menstrual health and like the amazing work around the inner seasons that you know wild power explores but then I thought what how can we make this super super practical because I'm I'm a very pragmatic person. And I just kind of like,

goes like to kind of cut through the heart of things and say, Okay, well, how can we do this? You know, what do we need to get done? And just thinking about my work as a nutritionist, I felt that it was really important to have an addition to the body of work that is already out there about how food can help us have a better period and a better menstrual cycle. So that was the kind of inspiration behind why I wrote the book. I just want to point people to your Instagram feed because it's full of really great tips, not just about food and great recipes and also about exercise. But like I just watched your video about getting sunshine. You know, you really clearly explain why getting out there and rolling your sleeves up and getting sun on your skin is so healthy.

So I really want to point everyone to your Instagram feed as well. I learn a lot from you. Let's get to exercise so can we start by looking at why it's even important to adapt the way you exercise and move through the cycle month? Yeah so what we need to remember is that we are hormones so our major sex hormones, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, they rise and fall as we go through our menstrual month. And so it means that not only will we not feel the same way every day, and that's fine, but we won't necessarily want to move our body in the same way. And if we do, we'll get different results throughout our menstrual month. So if you're a runner and you have a strict schedule to follow, you might find yourself getting a little bit frustrated after you finish your period, because your body is not necessarily adapted at that time

for a long distance run, versus after you ovulate, where you have the benefit of progesterone, that peak of progesterone that makes cardiovascular exercise a lot easier. So we are a cyclical being. And it's beautiful the way that we can apply this knowledge to so many different aspects of our lives, including the way that we move our bodies. And then it allows us to give ourselves a little bit more grace and say well actually maybe I won't go to the gym today maybe I'll go for a walk or swim or maybe you know I'll just move my body in a really gentle way with no pressure and that's what cyclical awareness gives us that that knowledge that takes the pressure off I can really see the connection here between what you were talking about the beginning with stress I'm wondering are you will you be looking at the way you move throughout the cycle or bringing in different

kinds of movement as you work to reduce stress on a personal level I I know that I have to apply this knowledge for myself and remind myself about this all the time because I push myself constantly just the way I am. And I love doing things like spinning. If I could, I would do it every day. I have a Peloton and I would use it every single day. But I have to remember that it's not in my interest to do it every day because, you know, that sort of like depending on the type of ride that you do, but I like to do like short, sharp, 20 minute, 30 minute rides, lots of intervals. So hit and that, even though you get the boost of endorphins, it raises cortisol. And so if you're already in a chronically stressed state, you have that addition of you're throwing

cortisol on top of that from the form of exercise you're doing, it's not necessarily going to do you any favors. And if you think about this on a practical level, you ideally want to feel really good when you finish whatever sort of movement you do but if you notice that you do you go for a run or spin class or whatever you do and you feel really exhausted afterwards that's a sign from your body that you need to pull back so our body is always giving us clues and yes this is the work I do and I have to constantly remind myself but this is where yoga is a beautiful practice that I layer in I not only teach but I have my own personal practice where I know when I need to pull back so for example when I have my period I will still practice and I will still do inversions but I won't necessarily do a lot of vinyasis where I'm

moving like cycling through different flows really quickly because I just know that I won't necessarily have the energy for that. And my body will want me to move a little bit slower. So that's what I do lots of spinning, lots of yoga. And of course, you know, living in London, I'm walking all the time. And walking is such an underrated form of movement you know I don't think people realize just how beneficial it is it's just kind of you know I think it gets kind of shuffled to the side as this kind of very low impact form of movement but you just think about it actually if you're looking at exercise as movement so looking at it differently not just as a a lot of people look at exercise as a weight loss tool or something that builds muscle but moving our bodies is so beneficial for our mental health

that exposure to light if you're walking outside, helps you make serotonin, which is one of our happy hormones. And also it's so important for bone health. So, you know, as you move into your forties, you need to be thinking about that more and more because estrogen and that gradual decline of estradiol, the dominant form of estrogen, while we menstruate, has an effect on our bones. And when we we start to that starts to decrease, we can feel the impact if we're not constantly strengthening our bones through through movement, because our bones are living tissue so I've kind of gone in a big circle here but I feel like I'm really loving it because

I'm a I'm a real walker you know I've got a dog I've got a Labrador so it's so good to hear you say that because I often just think oh I haven't done anything today when I've actually just taken an hour walk through the woods and it's good mean, all of the systems in our body benefit from that. The joints, like the fluid around our joints and all of the different hormonal processes and all of the amazing miraculous things that are happening in our bodies all benefit from movement, don't they?

Absolutely. If you think about like, we mentioned the bone, but then bones, we also need to think about muscle so muscle is a very it's an active tissue and when we use it it's actually very anti-inflammatory it's also it's a hormonal tissue so when we have good muscle, it actually helps us utilize thyroid hormone better. And so, yeah, it's so walking and it's so beneficial on so many different levels. And if you're listening to this and thinking, make like you can't break a sweat when you walk

try walking down Oxford Street like on a Saturday afternoon when you have to be somewhere like you will break a sweat or try chasing a Labrador who like won't get back on his lead yeah exactly just as an aside about um wait about 10 years ago I did this um there's Oxfam I don't know if they still do it but they have this 100 kilometer walk that they do over the south downs um and so I signed up for it with a group of friends and so we did a lot of training um on the weekends we would just take the train down to like different train stops around Brighton and then we just get off and just start walking and I remember thinking like, my God, my legs are so muscular. Like all of that walking, it's just, you know, the impact on your lung capacity, just so many different benefits. So, yeah, if you're on the fence about the benefits of walking,

I hope you've started to turn your mind. Yeah, walking. Yeah. I'd really like us to go season by season or phase by phase of the cycle yeah and look at your guidance for how to adapt our movement and why it's good to adapt our movement and how it will benefit us so maybe we can start with um in a winter with our period that's a good place to start and again back to your instagram account you've got a really good set of reels where you and i'll link to them in the

show notes where you go season by season so you can actually some of what we're talking about you'll be able to see lenise demonstrating it which is really helpful so yeah how how do you recommend that we move in i mean you talked about your personal experience but what do you recommend that we move in? I mean, you talked about your personal experience, but what do you recommend generally? So we know that during our inner winters, it's a time that our body wants us to turn inward. It's like a kind of inner hibernation. Whether or not we give ourselves permission to do that is a different

story but if you think about the kind of biological and physiological processes that are happening during this time it's very energy intensive so this is why amongst other reasons why you your energy isn't necessarily going to be as high so you really want to make sure you're not pushing yourselves you might feel like oh I've got a lot of energy I'm fine but I like to think about energy like a bit like a bank account where you know we make deposits but we also um take money out um withdrawals that's the word i'm looking for and and if you're you know this is the time where you're making energetic deposits by slowing down and we can really kind of be gentle with ourselves and really submit to this process by aligning the way we move with our energy. And so this means like if you're if you've got a yoga practice, slower flow yoga so as I mentioned earlier not doing a ton of like really dynamic vinyasas or really a kind of powerful flow you're going slower you're really actually layering in more pranayama which

is the breath control side of the practice maybe more meditation so that just spending more time tuning in spending more time in poses but not in a yin sort of way where you're holding poses for three four minutes and it's actually quite a muscular process this is kind of doing things like taking an easy seat and just focusing on your breath there. Maybe you're in child's pose. Maybe you're in cat cow. So those really gentle, easy movement. This is where walking comes in. Maybe some really, really easy swimming or cycling. It's really about listening to how you feel

and giving your body what it needs, but in a really respectful way. Because I think when we kind of push through, it is very disrespectful to our bodies because we're always getting signals from our body on what we need. So cravings, pain, all of these different signals from our body, but we get taught to ignore them. So when we start to listen, it just, I mean, I mentioned this earlier, but it's just, it honestly, it is so life-changing when you start to tune into your body. So that's the kind of the intro, inner winter, this slowing down. And just, if you don't even feel like moving, then don't. But I think thinking about specific conditions, if you have something like endometriosis or adenomyosis, or you have just really painful periods, something like foam rolling can be really nice

because it's a gentle form of movement, but it also helps to open up the pelvis. And that can be a form of pain relief in a way as well. That's lovely. That's really helpful. Can you explain what adenomyosis is? I don't actually know. Yeah. So adenomyosis is similar to endometriosis where with endometriosis, you have cells that are similar to those that are in the lining of the uterus. So the endometrium are actually in other places. So outside of the uterus, the ovaries, the bowels, the bladder. With adenomyomyosis you have these cells that are in the muscular lining of the uterus so these cells they bleed and they try to shed just like our endometrium but they they have nowhere to go and so you get it's very painful. You get adhesion. So with endometriosis, this process can mean that organs can stick together, like the bowels, the bladder, the ovaries.

But with adenomyosis, the muscular lining, you get scar tissue in there and that can make it even more painful when you have your period because you have this natural time of inflammation and with inflammation brings more pain so this is where foam rolling can be really nice because it's just this super gentle movement that gets you just back into your body and moves you away from what happens with these conditions is you have a lot of women who they will do this thing called muscle guarding, where they'll stay in the same place or they'll hold still because they feel like if they move, that will cause even more pain. But actually, really gentle movement can be a form of pain relief. There's a really good book called Pain is Really Strange, which goes into the science of how the stories we tell ourselves about our pain really impact the way our bodies interpret the danger signals that our body is sending out, which isn't at all to say that pain is all in our heads, not at all. But it is a powerful resource in terms of helping to work with pain. You know, I've had chronic pain, chronic gut pain, which might be endometriosis, but I've never had it diagnosed. I think it takes a long time for most people to get a diagnosis. Yeah.

But yeah, that's a good resource. I'll drop it in the show notes as well. Pain is really strange. That's my dog that just burst through. you shared a really great post uh about on valentine's day about how orgasms are a really great form of pain relief can you share more yeah so um when we when we orgasm we're releasing endorphins which are these neurotransmitters that come from the brain. So brain chemicals. And if you think about how you feel after, like when we naturally think about endorphins is when we go for a run or we do like something really a vigorous form of exercise, but those orgasms where it's just this natural,

this release really also release endorphins. So this is why this is where, you know, you that can be really nice, even though it can be counterintuitive for some of us, especially if you have kind of been taught this idea that period menstrual blood is dirty or something to be ashamed of, or if having sex while on your period is know that you know self-pleasure um it or having sex if you if you want and go achieving orgasm is really really nice during this time not only for orgasms but just also for this greater feel of feeling of connection. Because when we connect not only with ourselves, but with someone else, we release oxytocin, which is this hormone of connection. So lots of different layers there. If you're enjoying this conversation and you'd like to know more about the power that lives within your menstrual cycle, we recommend our book, Wild Power, Discover the Magic of Your Menstrual Cycle and Awaken the Feminine Path to Power. I was looking at the Amazon reviews today as I prepared this podcast

and I found this one from Johanna. She says, this book and the Wild Power podcast series helped me to change my relationship with my menstrual cycle to such an extent that I look forward to it and have become aware that it's not something that hits me viciously every month but instead is a miraculous cycle at all times full of wisdom love and support now as Johanna mentions in the review we actually have a wild power podcast series so if you've already read the book you might like to listen to this. Alexandra and Sharni recorded it when the book was launched and it expands upon the themes in the book how we can work with our menstrual cycle to access our

power, our calling, our unique genius, the inner seasons of the cycle and how to work with them to pace your energy and calm your nervous system and gain insight into your overall well-being so I'll drop the link in the show notes to the podcast and to the book okay back to our conversation with Laniece Brothers loads of benefits this is making this is making me think that we really need to have an episode about period sex there's a lot to talk about isn't there yeah yeah there definitely is there lots of things to unwrap around shame what we get taught um and just yeah breaking a taboo yeah yeah absolutely so we've talked about painful. Is it the same then for people with really heavy periods? So if you have a really heavy flow, is there a different way to adapt to movement for that? For a heavy flow, what's really nice is to focus on

anything that helps open up the hips. So thinking again, going back to yoga, you're doing things like yogi squat, where your hips are naturally open, your knees are spread apart. And again, it feels counterintuitive because most of us think of squatting as something that's quite effortful. you if you're lifting up from your pelvic floor connecting with your core and opening up your hips that actually supports blood flow around the pelvis and with heavy menstrual bleeding you've got this blood flow that is very it's almost like some of my clients just describe it like turning on a tap and you want to regulate that blow flow and of course there's lots of other things that you can do but those hip opening poses are really really nice as a way to support support the pelvis brilliant thank you um let's see so i feel like we've done a really good job

of covering in the winter there um slow flow gentle movement pelvis and hip focused and really listening to your body and what it needs i often notice and i've spoken to a few people about this that if we have lives that are running quite fast and we have a lot of responsibility and there's lots of things going on and maybe our period might take us unawares like it did for me this month on day 24 how can we support ourselves through movement I'm thinking especially here to slow down because sometimes the momentum can be so fast coming into our bleed that we just power through and keep going um well again this comes back to this idea of tuning into your body so building in practices that even when you're busy allow you to check

in with yourself so i like to think that when I talk to my clients about reducing stress, often, we think that we have to do these big have these big moments, like I'm going to sit down, and I'm going to meditate for 20 minutes, or, you know, I'm just going to do some breathing for five minutes. It doesn't even have to be like that it's these little moments that you build into your day so it's you know before you go into your next meeting you're taking a deep breath you're checking in with yourself you're scanning your body noticing where your breath is coming from is it a chest is it from your chest or can you go a little bit deeper and so to breathe from your diaphragm more of a belly breathing and we're not going to breathe from

our belly all the time but it's nice for that chest breathing not to be dominant so if you're able to build in those moments where maybe it's, you know, you spend 30 seconds, 10, 20, 30 seconds just checking with your breath. It could be looking out the window and just looking at the green, looking at the grass, because there's a lot of research that shows that when our eyes, they connect with nature, they see the green of nature, it has quite a calming effect. Of course, you know, there's the Japanese practice of forest bathing. And there's a lot of research around the benefits of that. So, you know, if you live, if you don't live somewhere where you can see green, even just looking up at the sky is really, really powerful. It could be getting up out of your chair and just having a little walk around your flat or house or wherever you live. These little moments that we take for ourselves that don't feel

like it's like it's not 10 minutes in your diary it's less than a minute but those add up and adding those in means that you won't things won't ever fully run away from you because you always have these reminders to check back in to know that, okay, you know, let's just use the breath to take things down, to shift the nervous system. And so when you do, if you do have a menstrual month where your things your bleed comes unexpectedly you're already checking in with yourself so you know what to do and you know how to handle things thank you those micro moments yeah when you thread them all together they have a really meaningful impact and it's why cycle awareness is so powerful as a practice because that consistent how am i doing what's happening how am i feeling how's my energy throughout the

day throughout the weeks throughout the month has it builds a momentum of of intimacy with ourselves yeah a hundred percent i like that intimacy with ourselves and you know intimacy has multiple meetings but it's you know to be closer to feel closer and you know what a great feeling to be intimate with yourself on multiple levels yeah it's the ground of all intimacy really yeah yeah okay let's move to inner spring to the period before ovulation so for many for most people i think the energy starts to rise again after the bleed and you might feel stronger what can what do you recommend in terms of movement at this time what can support our body to really thrive at this time yeah so if you're thinking hormonally estrogen is rising

testosterone is also rising and so estrogen we can we know it as our feminine hormone but it's also the hormone connected with energy. And then we have testosterone, which if in women, testosterone is associated with similar things as men, but we just produce less of it. So it's important for muscle mass, for bone health, on a cognitive level for communication, for confidence. So thinking back to movement, this is the time where if you have a practice that incorporates resistance training, you will find it easier. So again, going back to yoga, I always find doing anything that requires me to support my body weight so much easier in this time. I just feel like push-ups, if I'm teaching a push-up or teaching chaturanga, which is a kind of push-up where I'm having to use my body weight to flow into an upward facing dog. It's just so much easier during that time

poses like crow which are balancing poses but also require you to hold your weight i just find them so much easier and that's the benefit of testosterone you're also, you know, lifting, lifting heavy things, not necessarily lifting weights, but lifting heavy things is so important for women, especially after I think it's, I think after about 35, we start to lose between three to 5% of muscle mass every year. So we want to be lifting heavy things because that becomes so important as we get older, not only for, you know, if you're thinking about body composition, yes, but also for things like balance, for bone health, for muscle as a kind of endocrine gland, a hormonal gland, we just want to have more of it. So I'm not suggesting that we all become weightlifters. You're inspiring me. But anything that that gives you the opportunity to add a little resistance or lift heavy is always going to be so beneficial. So that would be what I would suggest for the inner spring, that kind of focus on lifting heavy things and resisting training that's great and then how does that change as you move into in a summer so as you get into the ovulation phase yeah so ovulation is

where kind of we're at our peak and so for many of us this may be the time where you feel your best. And so I like to think of even though ovulation ostensibly is just one day, you're releasing an egg from one of your two ovaries. I like to think of it as a kind of mini phase. So three to five days, just thinking about the rise of progesterone and the second smaller rise of estrogen. And so this is the time where we still have a lot of energy and just do whatever makes you feel good. So we tune into our body, but in a different way. It's about how can we harness all of this energy in a way that's energizing rather than depleting so you're not kind of you're going all out but knowing that it's not going to be out loud every day it's going to be maybe all out a couple of days just making sure that you're doing you're moving your body um in a way that allows you to really channel this this peak of energy i think that word channel is really important i noticed that

in my inner summer i can fly away with loads of ideas because i've got so much energy and it just goes wherever i focus it and if I exercise more which at the moment is looking like some HIIT workouts I can sometimes pull off a couple of HIIT workouts a week then I notice it it grounds me it brings me into my body and it helps me to channel the energy of summer into whatever I'm doing creatively in a more productive way I think yeah yeah exactly it's like going back to that analogy of the energy being a bank account where your deposits and withdrawals this is the time where a lot of us will be making a lot of energetic withdrawals and we just need to have find a balance there where we're not doing too much because that can just take us into an energetic overdraft.

I went really far with that analogy. I'm loving it. When we get to the end of our menstrual cycle. Is there a connection between that and feeling especially crappy in the premenstrual phase like if we've really pushed it in in a summer? Yeah I think so I think I think that you know we if we say energy is a finite resource then there will be times where, you know, we're just if we're just taking, taking, taking. And then we think about the times where our energy is naturally declining. It just gets to a place where right before your period, you will feel depleted. And this is where a lot of us we we have we talk about PMS and I'm personally I'm not a fan of that grouping

everything into PMS I just think that it doesn't do us any it does it does us a disservice just talking about oh I'm PMSing or my PMS is this I rather rather say, well, what's actually going on? Like, let's dive deeper. Are you just super tired? You know, are you just really depleted? Is there anxiety there? Is there depression? You know, what's really going on? How can we unpickick this what you're feeling at the moment and so this depletion that some of us can experience right before a period um means that we need to take more care throughout the rest of our cycle um take more care so that we can go into our inner autumn so the late inner autumn feeling okay you know you may not be your kind of peak of energy but that's that's okay but I think what's really interesting is this feeling that a lot of us can get right before our period is this kind of it can feel like a different energy where you're

not you don't necessarily want to go out and go for like a long run but it's this energy that's geared towards doing so kind of clearing your to-do list nesting this kind of nesting energy where our body is getting us ready for the next period. So this thinking about movement and adding movement into this, it's just, again, going back to whatever, whatever feels good. But I just want to take this back a little bit because I typically like to split the luteal phase, so our inner autumn into two parts. So you have your early inner autumn. So thinking about this like late September, October, where you still have energy, things feel really bright. And you know, it's a little bit more focused and calm because of progesterone. This is where if you go back to what I said earlier, we cardiovascular exercise will feel easier, going for a long run, a cycle, swim, anything like super cardiovascular. And then we get into our late autumn,

and those hormones are gradually declining. So again, it's about not having massive expectations for yourself during this time, doing what you can. But you know, things like if you're working with a personal trainer, telling them where you are in your menstrual cycle, so they can adjust your training schedule accordingly. Because what I see sometimes is that you have women who get frustrated because they're not necessarily able to do the same things that they were able to do a week or two weeks before but it's based on where they are in their menstrual cycle we had a had a great conversation with an American man called Dominic and his podcast partner Brian about men and the menstrual cycle and how they can connect with their partners if they have female partners who are bleeding and um he actually he has a

personal trainer who's a woman and she came one day and said oh sorry i'm feeling a bit tired today i'm not sure if we can push it as hard as usual and he said oh why are you on your period she said yeah how did you know and he said i said okay well you just take what you do whatever you need and she was like wow he was able to bring that wisdom to her um what was I going to ask yeah is there a way that you can suggest for people to work with movement to help to ease some of the premenstrual rage or premenstrual anxiety that can happen like is there anything that you can offer there yeah so I there's a lot of research that shows that movement can be really powerful for managing our mental health and shifting the nervous system. So if you think about this premenstrual rage,

whether it's in a moment or whether it's sustained, movement that gets you out of your head and focusing on what's going on in your body can be really powerful. You're taking yourself out of the situation and you're putting yourself somewhere somewhere else um and so i'd say it's not a specific type of movement it's just it's just moving it could just be going going for a walk you know because movement is really supportive for our gut health and our gut

is where we make a lot of our serotonin our happy hormone so it's anything that gets you moving you're making you're making these hormones and they will have a knock-on effect on your mood wow I love listening to you speak so much in this conversation I know that when I'm feeling really ragey in yes usually around day 23 or 24 I like to punch the air and I find that it really helps because it helps to depersonalize whatever I'm raging about, which is usually my husband. Like he just gets the brunt of the premenstrual rage. So as I'm punching and as I'm getting the anger out in a physical way, the intensity of the story of like, why didn't he fill the dishwasher or whatever it is, starts to diminish. And I can just get in touch with the pure rage which I think is one of the

gifts of the menstrual cycle you know we should be angry in the world that we live in today it's a messy world and it needs to change you know and I can plug into that just pure energy of that change-making truth-telling energy and then I can redirect it somewhere ideally not at my husband and I find movements really supportive for that I love what you said there about you know there being a role of for anger for rage and something I find really interesting is when we move towards our next period when oestrogen and progesterone are declining so when should estrogen is being a feminizing hormone but it's I've I've read this once and I just found it so fascinating that estrogen is this hormone of accommodation so we're more likely to tolerate things just after our period and around our relation than we would right before our period.

And you could have, you know, a whole conversation about like menopausal women and women who are post-menopausal where they're not, they're producing, they're still producing estrogen. It's just a less, less of it. And it's a less powerful powerful form but does this mean you hear from women who are like in their 50s and 60s how they just don't have time for nonsense anymore you know their tolerance levels have gone down and I think could we make that link there with this just less estrogen as less powerful form um and kind of i think we feel that right before our periods where estrogen is just it's moving towards its lowest point so we should never apologize for how we feel feel what you feel understand what you feel and maybe not let it carry you away but we have emotions for a reason

yeah and we pathologize the um quote unquote negative emotions that many women and people with periods feel as they come up towards their bleed the rage the the frustration the yeah not tolerating bullshit anymore yeah the being able to see things as they are to discern to name what needs to change which can be destructive but it can be channeled in such a constructive way and I feel and I know you agree and so many people agree as they're listening that that post-menopausal discerning wisdom we need that in our world so much right now and instead of women and post-menopausal people sort of like feeling like they're invisible in some way because of our maiden obsessed culture I want to elevate the the place of premenstrual people and menopausal post-menopausal

people because why do we need that truth-telling force right now yeah definitely we um Alexandra and Shania have just finished writing the our book our menopause book we haven't released the the title of it yet but it's going to be coming out in September and we're going to be gathering a lot of people around it to rewrite the cultural story of menopause it's exciting oh brilliant that's going to be great oh excellent so when it comes to movement in inner autumn we're looking at more cardiovascular um and also yoga wise i think in your reel you're talking about how you can do longer holds with more focus at this time and to focus on the breathing and the inhale and the exhale yeah yeah definitely i definitely

notice that like if you do yin yoga which is a form of yoga where you are doing longer holds but there it tends to be more kind of active poses so you're holding a warrior two for two to three minutes like that's very challenging this is the time where that actually might feel feel easier um I don't know everyone is different but you just have to make this feel make it feel good for you um and just listen listen to your body and listen to where it wants you to go so thank you for everything you shared about movement. I would actually love to ask you about your book and how you worked with your cycle when you were writing your book and how that supported the creative process. I've just been fascinated with this recently because we've been talking about it a lot with Alexander and Shania as they've been writing the menopause book. So, yeah, how did that go for you? You shared a really great post about how, like, you know, your inner critic was very loud and you were doubting yourself and procrastinating. And how did you work with your inner critic through the process?

Yeah, that's such a great question. There were there were I never doubted myself in the sense that I didn't know what I was talking about. It was more inner critic in that, you know, why are you writing a book? You know, why, who do you think you are writing a book? You know, you're kind of, you're going to get called out. You know, you're going to, you know, people are going to kind of catch you. And that actually helped me in a way, because it made sure that I did, I ended up creating a lot of extra work for myself because of that, just going through making sure I had loads of references so something I'm really proud of

is that I have over 300 references in the book so no one ever is ever going to be able to come back to me and say well you know there's no basis for what you're talking about and I know evidence-based science is only just one part of it you know there's a lot of wisdom that we can get from anecdotal evidence but it was just something that it came 100% from the inner critic that was just driving that driving that thought in my mind and there were times definitely right before my period, where that would just be, that voice would be louder and louder. But I tried to harness it and make, use it to make my, my work better. So I just remember going back and checking things, not overly checking things, just making sure I was saying enough

as well, kind of not just kind of giving really brief, spurious references to things, but trying to go into depth, but making it really interesting and readable. So that's where the inner critic came out for me. I really tried to use it to drive me as much as possible. Give it a job to do. I love that because it's busy, you know, giving all the imposter syndrome stories to you. So I have to say, do you know what?

Go off and find 300 references. I think that's amazing. A really practical example of how you can take the critical or destructive power of the inner critic and make it a transformative and useful and practical yeah definitely amazing is there anything else you'd like to share as we wrap up the conversation perhaps to inspire people to move cyclically, to move with their cycle. I think if you're listening to this and you're wondering where you can start, just start where you are now. Start by noticing how you feel. You don't need to know exactly where

you are in your menstrual cycle, especially if you have PCOS and you have longer cycles or you don't actually have a period at the moment for a number of different reasons, just start to notice how you feel. If you're on hormonal contraception, this is important too, that kind of just connecting with your energy at the moment and then moving your body in a way that feels good, rather than forcing yourself to do to do something. Thanks, Linise. And how can people get in touch with you if they're loving what you're saying and would like to connect with you? Yeah, so you can connect me with me. my website is www.eatlovemove.com you can find me on social media so instagram and tiktok it's at eat love move um and you can also

check out my podcast it's called period, which is available anywhere you listen to podcasts. And then my book, You Can Have a Better Period, is available anywhere you buy books. Thank you, Linise. It's been so fascinating to talk to you. I've learned so much. And I also am leaving feeling inspired to get moving more and to celebrate the fact that when I go for an hour-long walk,

that's really good exercise. So thank you so much for everything you've shared thank you for having me on the show thank you for listening today I'd love to hear how this landed for you and how you adapt your movement around your cycle you can share your experience on the post about the podcast on instagram and as we close today i'd also love to invite you to save a date i'm nervous and excited about this or cited as glennon doyle says about this but quietly over the past few months i've been putting together a new program for red school called your cyclical business and we're hosting a free introductory webinar on may the 17th about how your menstrual cycle can be your best business

guide and mentor and how menstrual cycle awareness can actually help you to create a thriving business i'm so excited about it and i'd love you to join me on may the 17th so just save the date for now if you'd like to come. Okay that's it for today, thanks for being with us, please subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and we will be together again next week hopefully and until then keep living life according to your own brilliant rhythm.