The Misery Machine - Mary Kay Letourneau | The Media Going Easy on Women Predators | Do Abused Boys Get the Support They Deserve?

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

Drewby and Yergy cover the recent death of Mary Kay Letourneau, who was an American school teacher (and tabloid fixture of the 1990's) who pleaded guilty in 1997 to two counts of felony second-degree rape of a child, Vili Fualaau, who was 12 or 13 at the time, had been her sixth-grade student, and had allegedly also taught him in second grade. While awaiting sentencing, she gave birth to Fualaau's child, a daughter named Audrey Lokelani. With the state seeking a six-and-a-half-year prison sentence, she reached a plea agreement calling for six months in jail, with three months suspended, and no contact with Fualaau for life. The case received national attention. Shortly after spending three months in jail, the police caught Letourneau in a car with Fualaau. A judge revoked her plea agreement and reinstated the prison sentence for the maximum allowed by law of seven-and-a-half years. Eight months after returning to prison, she gave birth to Fualaau's second child, another daughter named Georgia. She was imprisoned from 1998 to 2004. Letourneau served her sentence in the Washington Corrections Center for Women. In October 1998, Letourneau and Fualaau co-authored a book, which was published in France, called Only One Crime, Love. In 1999 a second book appeared, this one published in the United States, but written with only minimal cooperation from Letourneau, and none from Fualaau: If Loving You Is Wrong. Letourneau and Fualaau were married in May 2005, and the marriage lasted 14 years until their separation in 2019. Letourneau died of colon cancer in July 2020 after several months of treatment, with Vili Fualaau at her side. We dive into the hard questions - Did the media go too easy on Letourneau? Although now a legal adult, could Fualaau really make an informed decision after being victimized for years by Letourneau? If Letourneau were a male teacher, would the media still be hailing their story a fairy tale romance? Do boys get the support they need when preyed upon by older women? We speculate on all of these questions, share personal thoughts and experiences - and more. This week's episode is sponsored by True Crime by Indie Drop-In: https://pdsh.re/p/true-crime Join Our Facebook Group to Request a Topic: https://t.co/DeSZIIMgXs?amp=1 Support Our Patreon For More Unreleased Content: https://www.patreon.com/themiserymachine PayPal: https://www.paypal.me/themiserymachine Instagram: miserymachinepodcast Twitter: misery_podcast Discord: https://discord.gg/kCCzjZM #podcast #documentary #truecrime

I'm Yerke and I'm Drewby and today this one came kind of out of nowhere for us I was basically just playing around on true crime Reddit and I found out that Mary Kay LaTerno passed away having looked into it we decided to decide to talk about it with the mics on it was going to be a Patreon episode but as we got to the end of it we decided to make it an actual episode because I think not enough people are talking about it and unfortunately not enough people talked about it when it was going on I don't think enough people are talking about it. I don't think enough people are talking about it. about it in the right context. That's what I mean, the way that it should have been talked about. If you're listening on YouTube, please hit like and subscribe. We're almost at 550. And I guess we'll do the replacement 500 subscribers video when we hit 600, which we're coming up on quickly. So if you want to get us there and see our pretty faces on video again before YouTube strikes it down. We'll make sure not to do it in the mall with fucking Don Henley playing in the background. Yeah, with that out of the way, this is Mary Kaye with Herno. So I'm really struggling with the Mary Kay Laterno case.

I mean, I know she just passed away. I'm not trying to speak ill to dead, but I feel like if this is a man in this case, people would be speaking ill. And past circumstances of men who have died after committing acts like this, people have spoke nothing but ill. I don't know.

I'm very mixed on it. So, yeah, I was really up in arms when, let's say, for example, people were talking shit about David Bowie as soon as he died. I was really pissed off about that. It's really kind of not the time nor the place. But with David Bowie, I want to say this really quick. The time or the place to talk about that with David Bowes when he was doing it.

It was still alive. Yeah. And I get that he was doing it in a time where it was really hard to call that out. And it was acceptable. People thought rock stars had a pass to do that. But with that said, he could have been called on it later in his later life and made to answer for it as he should have. But when you do it upon death, it does nothing at that point. It's kind of pussy.

It's virtue signaling. Yes, it is. So anyways, we're talking about Mary Kay-Lut. who I confused her with Deborah Lefave. I'm sure I've heard of this. This sounds familiar reading over this, but it's been a long time. So I've heard this. I was very young when this was in the news.

Yes. I remember it pretty vividly because this all went down. I'm the same age as her ex-husband, Vili Fowowl. When this went all all down and he was in sixth grade and they initially got in trouble, he didn't get in trouble, she got in trouble for statutory rape. Actually, what was it? like level two rate. Second degree rate. Second degree rate. I hadn't heard that term before. I guess that must mean statutory. I'm sure nowadays it's considered statutory rape, not second degree, but who knows.

Who knows? Maybe it's different classification over in Washington. Yeah, state by state could be different. But I remember it pretty vividly because I was the same age as this kid. It's a whole big crazy thing that went on because it happened when he was 12, 13 years old. By the time he was 15, they already had two children because they just couldn't stay away from each other. But I think it gets a little bit different when he's 21 petitioning the courts and then they get married and they stay together longer than most couples do yeah so this is where it's tough for one that kid could not stop busting nuts in her holy shit is she fertile she has said six kids two by him i kind of feel like they were trying to have kids this wasn't just like oopsie twice i think they were trying the older i get the more

i don't believe like the it just happened no no get out of here but yeah i think the big thing that kind of stands out to me is that when he was 21, he did petition the court to reverse the lifetime no contact ban. And they let it happen and they married immediately. And they were together from what, 2005 to 2019. Yeah. I think he filed for separation in 2017 and it was finalized like last year, the year before. He withdrew it and then resubmitted it. Like they kind of had split but were like on again often. I guess you could say. Yeah. I'm not exactly. sure, but I know that he kind of put himself out there is what happened was so long ago, that they're two grown adults now who are living their lives now. And I can get that. But

if we're so keen on calling out grooming nowadays, like the shit Drake's doing and all this others, like grooming is definitely in the spotlight right now, as it should be. This is textbook grooming. Yeah. And that's not okay. Because you have to think, okay, yeah, he's an adult, but he's had a brainwashed teenage years. His years, going through puberty, he's being groomed. That does some shit. And I think the big thing that I want people to ask themselves is, if this was Woody Allen dying right now, would you be saying all these good things? And you're just, but Woody Allen's a fucking predator.

Well, okay, yes, but he's with somebody who is a legal age now. I don't even know if it was proved that they were together when she was young. It's very much alleged, and I believe it happened. But the difference between him and Mary Kay Laterno is Mary Kay LaTerno was actually convicted of it. And Woody Allen is still married to his wife. I don't know her name. But he had been grooming her ever since a kid. Do you believe that she is now of an age where she knows better?

I don't believe so. And I think a lot of other people don't believe so. That's why Woody Allen is canceled. What is different between this and this? It's hard because where I think from a legal standpoint, you want to put it as she, did her time as mandated by the state of Washington. He is now of legal age. He has now made a decision as an adult that the courts have agreed with and they're now like living their lives. You can look at it, yes, that one way. But you can look at it in a second way as the damage has already been

done warping his young minds. Where do you answer for that? I guess you don't. He could have been corrupted. It's a moral thing, but then it's like a legal thing, which are two different things. The answer is not obviously cut and dry. Neither of us have the answer. but what I think is important to point out is that if this was a man doing this to a young girl, people would not be like, oh, well, he did his time. And she's old enough to know better now. They would say that this girl was brainwashed and that this is a horrible thing. And they'd be saying where Mary Kay LaTerno died of colorectal cancer two days ago,

they'd be celebrating this man's death if this was a guy. I also believe if this was a girl who was groomed, She would not be petitioning the court because she would have been grown up being told you're a victim, you're a victim, what this is so horrible, what they did. You must be traumatized. And it's not that if people telling her that are wrong, but when you hear that a lot, you identify with it more. And this is a horrible thing. Don't get me wrong. I think I've said my piece to why I think it's horrible.

But when people reinforce the fact that you're a victim and that you're really hurt, you feel it that much more. I mean, just look at like Munchausen's by proxy and things like that, what that does to be. people. So with that said, I believe knowing how people view young men that have sex with older women, that he was being high-fived by his friends. They probably were celebrating him because she was an attractive woman. Yeah. So he's being encouraged by his peers. He's probably being brushed off by adults. He's probably not like being taken into counseling or saying you're a victim or anything like that. It's probably just being kind of swept under the rug and he's getting either neutral. or positive praise to it.

That is going to create two very different mindset in these scenarios we've just laid out. And so therefore, I'm not surprised that he petitioned the court. Everyone's telling you all your life, this is so positive. Hell yeah, you're going to feel like a hero. Do you want to let that go and go date a normal woman? Or do you want to go after what made you feel like a man when you were that young? Right. It wasn't until recently, like May 2020, that he actually came clean and said that he saw things

clearly and realized it wasn't a healthy relationship. Though he did not officially say this, this is according to an unnamed source close to him. So it could be bullshit. But do I believe this is true? I think it could be. It could absolutely be true. When you have somebody who's abused you, brainwashed you, gas lit you, sometimes it takes that person leaving this earth for you to finally see the shadow they cast over you.

And that could absolutely have happened here. I mean, he's now like a parent of adult daughters. Yes. You know, maybe he sees it from that standpoint now of what if this were his kids. Yeah, I think that definitely has something to do with it too. I think a lot of people are kind of getting off on the fact like, oh, this is so sweet. Look, even though they were separated, he was there with her in her final moments. Well, I'll tell you what.

I'm assuming they separated on somewhat amicable terms. It wasn't anything toxic. Like, let's say you have an abusive parent. I know this is kind of different, but I think it's similar enough. If you have a really abusive parent that was with you for your formative years, I mean, this lady was with him for a huge chunk of his life, 20 years of his life more than that, almost 25 years. Are you really just going to not be there when that person's dying?

I mean, some people can totally do that, and it depends on the abuse, depends on the person, depends on the situation. But I'm sure we all know countless people that were there for their abusive whatever. deathbed. Probably. I mean, it's being someone who's of the same age as me, and I'm sure he thought that they were with each other from the time he was in sixth grade all of this time. So he is a 36, or at this point, he's a 37-year-old man who is in a long-term relationship for almost 25 years. That's a huge thing. That's a huge thing. Nobody has that. Nobody at that age has that ever. In very few cases where, let's say he's dating somebody who was 12 when he was 12.

And that's difficult. But this is a long-term relationship with somebody with a huge maturity gap, among other things. You know, I wouldn't be surprised. And from what I've noticed working with younger men, teens, people who are starting to experience a coming of age, you find that one woman that makes you feel special, dog-ass fucking loyal to her. I would not be shocked if he didn't date anyone else that entire time and just waited for her. I would not be shocked. I know not every person is built that way, but this is kind of a perfect storm.

With that I just laid out, all the positive feedback from your friends that, and again, I'm speculating. But I think my speculation is a fair assumption if you've known anyone when you were in high school, if you're male-bodied, you had a lot of male-bodied friends that had sex with somebody who wasn't in high school, was an older woman was a teacher. You were hailed as a hero. I've seen it firsthand. And I mean, there's a whole South Park sketch about this. There's, there's many different examples. So I really don't think I'm being nuts here making that assumption. I think it's a safe assumption to make that he got positive reinforcement. Hey guys, for this episode, our sponsor is True Crime by Indie Dropin. It's a podcast that features episodes from independent true crime creators. Each week, you'll

explore a different aspect of the true crime genre. You'll hear episodes about serial killers, violence, conspiracies, celebrities, white collar crime, and much, much more. You will hear creators from all over the world, including our Junko Furuda episodes, so please go check it out. Now you can get your true crime fixed from many other independent podcasts just like us. Search for True Crime by Indie Dropin on your favorite app or click the link in the show notes to get started. I mean, not only that, when you're of that age, you're now in a long-term relationship with a older woman. who has the whole maturity power over you, who's good looking and you are now sharing two children with them,

of course you're going to stick around. Imagine being that young and now you have children. You're not even old enough to drive and you have children. You don't know what to do. You're just going to listen to what people tell you to do. They're not going anywhere, nor do you have the means to go anywhere if you wanted to. That is a life you are now stuck in whether you like it or not. May I have my problems with the Rolling Stone.

They kind of sugarcoat things. things and gloss things over, especially when they cover certain people who have had very problematic pass, but they just released today, and the headline is how the media turned child rape into a trist for Mary Kay Leterno. And it's a good article. I suggest people read it, but it basically breaks down not only this case, but the Deborah LaFave case. It breaks down the Pamela Rogers Turner case, and basically how the media is responsible for making us to feel like, child sexual abuse is exclusively a male predator thing and that female predators don't exist. I think I was watching a Dr. Todd Grande video.

Again, don't quote me on this. I don't remember the exacts or what video it was, but I believe he was highlighting how there's not a lot of research on this, but they're starting to think that female perpetrators who commit child sexual abuse are more common than we think. And growing up, you know, you hear stories, you know, the neighbor, the teacher that would have the school kid in her class come over to cleaner yard or whatever, but they end up going at it, stuff like that. Nobody really like bats an eye at that. And if you do, as I said, kids hail you as a hero. And this is, they had that happen over at Lisbon when I was going there.

Really? Yeah. It was a couple of things. So we had an elementary school teacher who was having sex with like some high school students and it was frowned upon. She got fired even though they were 18. But there's a power dynamic there. I mean, again, it's not actually it could be illegal because of the power dynamic. But I think it being illegal due to the power dynamic, if it is is a recent thing. Yeah, it was just a weird situation. She had no criminal charges. She was just fired. It was so long ago. I was really young when it happens. Oh, okay, okay. Like I was still, I think, believe in elementary school or middle school. I mean, I know nothing about this case, but I'd have to assume she did something so egregious and so hard for them to look. away that they had to do something about it. I think it was more of a situation where just parents found out and complained. Yeah. I mean, at that point, if you have a lot of parents complaining. But again, we're speculating.

This is just really sad because, again, we're allowing grooming to happen from older woman to younger boys. And nobody looks at this as really a problem. We're not looking at and calling out in the ways in which it could be grooming. And when we live in a culture where if a 19-year-old... year old dates a 17 year old. People are calling for him to have statutory rape charges, but something like the Mary Kay Laterno case is just kind of sugar-coded as this, oh, this poor Star Cross lovers scenario, oh, this is just bad romantic luck. No, this is predatory. I get, if you look at the story,

and it just makes that Disney part of your heart all feel good and gush, but this is something dangerous. and the more that we let stuff like this become normalized, the more young men are going to be hurt are not going to know where this hurt is, where it comes from, what to do with it, and it's going to come out in ways that are unpredictable. And we already have many young men who are directionless, are traumatized, who are hurt,

who have a lot of questions, have no answers, and no real resources to seek out or being told to just suck it up and to be tough. Imagine throwing this on top of it. It absolutely horrifies me. And I guess I'll kind of end my piece. Was it like Joe Rogan I heard say like, yeah, the only people that rape men are other men. This is a dangerous thing to be pushing.

Yeah, maybe women don't violently rape men, though I would disagree on that. But let's just say that's impossible, okay? They can still grow. abuse power dynamics. Yes, they can abuse power dynamics. They can gaslight you, a lot of things. And by the way, I have heard of dudes getting drugged and raped by women. So let's just throw that out here. These are ridiculous things. I actually know someone who was. If you take the time and talk to certain men that want to talk and that are willing to confide in you, you might hear some things that will surprise you. And I know if there's any younger men listening that had open a. emotional avenues of conversation with men their age, they were able to have heart to hearts, we're able to have free and easy dialogue about stuff that happens and how they were feeling. You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised what some young boys have gone through.

I know someone who at a time wasn't taking their medication for an endocrine disorder, which then made them lethargic. They would fall asleep and be basically comatose and woke up with a female friend on top of them raping them. And there are situations like that where you're not in your full faculties and women will just assume, you know, men always want it. And all genders seem to push the stereotype. Yeah, men just want it. You know, you're doing them a favor. It's really sick. And if you think that there's nothing wrong with Yergi's story, kind of flip it. If a girl's like half drunk, she's conscious, she's not completely there. And a guy was to take. the same liberties with her. Would you consider that wrong?

It is wrong that it did happen to me. I see no difference in these stories. I really see no difference. One is somebody drugged on medication and another is somebody is drunk. Or drugged not taking their medication is basically what happens. Yeah, yeah. I hope that's still that came across correctly. Yeah. And I can cut what I'm about to say if you want me to, but since you just put out there that you are somebody who has been a if you want to talk about this case in relation to that. I mean, you kind of just like summed it up there. Basically, you were drawing the same comparison to my friend who was in a, like, not in their

capacities and was taken advantage of. I mean, I think I've been pretty open about it before. That did happen to me the first time I went out drinking with any of my friends. After I had turned 21, two of my best friends from high school, place something in my drink while we were out and locked me down in a basement and then just took advantage of me while I was drugged basically. I'm pretty open about it. I've talked about it on Facebook many times. So, I mean, basically, it's the same thing. It really is the same thing. It doesn't matter. And what would you expect a man to do? Do you want him to just fight back? I'm sure most men in

that position can't really recognize that they're being assaulted. Either they're recognized they're being assaulted but then probably feel ashamed after, don't know that they can report it, are probably confused whether it's rape or not because they have an erection, because they're being told they can't be raped. And look at what we used to tell women. If you weren't aroused, your body has a way to shut down pregnancy. Or if you didn't want it, how was X, Y, Z, insert any gross detail people used to say about how women actually wanted it. You're painting the same broad strokes across men and it's not okay. I know. I didn't really have anything else to add other than I really hope that Dr. Grande covers this too because I'd be very interested in watching it. I would be too. It wouldn't

shock me if he already hasn't. If he already has it. Or if he doesn't already have one. Yeah, he might. I don't know. I haven't just because we just found out about this today and she died two days ago. What I mean is like one about this case prior. Oh prior. Yeah. Because it really seems like something he'd have. Yeah. It seems up his alley. If this goes up on YouTube and I find that I'll probably put a link to his video because he does really good work. I guess final notes on this is you want to feel sappy about this. If you have some sort of heartwarming feeling about this, understand that the media did this to you? Well, yes, but I don't want you to villainize yourself. I want you to kind of separate all the pieces of the puzzle and understand what's going on and move forward. See,

this is the difference. I'm not going to try to shame people who feel something positive about this case. Instead, I'm going to plead and implore you to really take a deeper dive on what happens. And if you can identify what is bad and what isn't, and where is that good feeling? Where is that coming from in this case? Is it just because these people loved each other for so long? Because I guarantee you, I can find you so many old couples who've been together since they were 18 or something like that, who've had great marriages that have lasted a long time. If you just want to have a feel-good moment about lovers in a dangerous time or people whose love has stood the test of time, I think you can find that good feeling in a story like that in a place that doesn't involve somebody taking advantage of a child. And if you truly believe

that a 12-year-old boy cannot be taken advantage of by a older woman, if you truly believe that's not possible. I need to know why. Why is it that a man can to a little girl, but a woman can't for a boy? And I want you to think really hard about that and have that conversation with yourself. That's all I'm asking. I'm not asking you to agree with me. I just want you to think about it because I don't think people have really thought about this that much. They haven't. And it's even difficult for me because like I thought about it the whole legal way of how she's done her time. And then you think the moral way of, oh, this is still monstrous and he's scarred. Glad you brought up the legal way. Because one other thing.

because men who have done the same thing as her, they're not just looked at as, oh, they just serve their time. They're on the registry for life. Yeah. And they face violence. People will literally look through the registry, find these people, and beat the shit out of them. Or they get killed in prison. Or they get killed.

I don't see her getting killed in prison. Yeah, because there's not that same type of standard in women's prison. If you're a chomo or if you're any sort of sex offender, if you've raped somebody, adult or otherwise, you will get killed in most general population prisons in America. That's just how it is. That's just the rules there. It's different. It's not looking as you need to do your time.

It's you live with this for the rest of your life. You pay for it for the rest of your life. And you hear people saying, we need to chemically castrate these men or we need to just execute them. If you feel that way, fine. Feel that way about the female sex offenders too. goes both ways because at the end of the day, there are still young children who are being hurt by this. That's really all I have. Yeah, that's all I got. Okay. If you're listening on YouTube, please like and subscribe. It really does go a long way. Hit the bell notification if you want to be

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We want to start doing videos. And we want to deliver that much more value to you guys. So patreon.com slash the misery machine. Or if you don't like Patreon, I get it, PayPal.m.m.E. slash the misery machine. Thanks to those who have jumped into our discord as well. It is now open to the public. Yes. We do have our special Patreon only channels. For a tier two plus. Yes. However, feel free. to jump in and join the conversation. Yes. And also, we have new Apple podcast reviews. So I'm going to read those really quickly.

This first one is Yergi and Drubi are fantastic hosts. Their research is impeccable while keeping me glued to my earbuds. I love how some of these victims resonate with Yergy and Druby. I find myself yelling, I'm not crying, you're crying way too often. This podcast is a gem,

hit subscribe, and that's from I'm Greg. Thank you so much. That's a really great review. And this next one, I just found y'all after listening to the Sylvia Likens podcast. Honestly, I've gone back to listen to older episodes as well. Thank you. Completely unique podcast pair. You can take a very different approach to these cases by highlighting what happened in your opinions of it. And at least to me, seems like you're taking such care in honoring the victims and not the murderers in those cases.

Can't believe I didn't find you guys earlier. Love what y'all are doing and can't wait for more. and I believe this is from the conscientiously maniacal podcast. So shout out to them and shout out for such a great review because I feel like a lot of people don't seem to recognize that we're not trying to really glorify the murderer but try to honor the victims in some way, which seems to be sorely lacking in true crime, period.

And this last one found them on Instagram and I am so glad I gave them a listen because it's such a great podcast. From one podcaster to another, you are awesome. Keep up the amazing content. And that's Mandy from the Depth of Darkness podcast, which sent us a sticker, by the way. And it was very cute.

And speaking of stickers, we have some new stickers in the works. So. There should be coming in the next couple of weeks. Yeah, next couple of weeks. Long-awaited. Yergi designed it using our existing logo. Yes. So keep your ears peeled on that one,

as we will have some really nice stickers soon. And they're going to be vinyl. So you can put them on your car. And they can withstand the elements. I know Eddie wants to put a bunch on his bumper. Yes, yes. So we went and measured to make sure they're big and fabulous. Don't you worry.

These will be high quality stickers. But until next week. We love you. We love you. Okay. Bye. Bye. Hey, listeners.

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